Want Your DREAM Life + Have It ALL? Do This 👆

People are making compromises. I will earn money, but I'll get out of shape. I will achieve X, but I'll have a crappy relationship with my family.

How do we have it all? This is it.

That can only happen when you start letting go of these compromises. So much of this cultural narrative of these compromises are okay. And I was like, no, because I want to be in great shape. I want to earn great money. I want to have loving relationships. Do you know what I mean? I want to do incredible work that I love. Like, why can't I? Who's saying that I can't? When I actually started to answer. Well, no one's saying I can't to me saying that I can't at the end of the day. And I just need to be able to change what that narrative is when you're like, how to have it all. Well, then how do we design what it is that needs to happen for you to have it all in the context and definition that you're placing about it? Show me your calendar, Josh. I want to see what you do on a daily basis, because that will start to tell me what it is that you're actually putting your time, attention, energy, and resources towards. What's most interesting for you right now, Josh.

Okay. Right now, for me, it is stepping into having it all. This concept of, like, having it all. The health, the wealth, the friendships, the business, the sex, the intimacy of all of it. Dude, like, imagine life where I'm just grab. Grabbing an orange biting and having the juice run down my elbow. Like, that's what I'm all about right now.

Yeah.

And I'm in the process of figuring it out.

I'm in the process of trying to accept that. Oh, because I have it all.

You literally have it all.

It's been. The hardest thing is, actually I've had such a sense of unworthiness in life. And this actually came out with Tucker, which was really interesting, what him and I both spoke about. But it was a case of my parents were both 17 when I was born. And so, like, we grew up together. I still have an amazing relationship.

Yeah.

With them. And through psychotherapy, through psychedelics, through a bunch of work and stuff like that. What came up so often was I'm not meant to be in this world. I'm. I wasn't wanted to be here. And so I had this sense of unworthiness come through me consistently. And I think, like, really reflecting back, I think that could have been something that was the motivating factor behind why I'VE been so driven and succeeded in so much. Yeah. Because there was that drive of having to prove my worthiness to the world, which has been a fantastic thing and I'm very thankful for it. And especially going through the processes of especially like forgiveness, forgiveness to others and forgiveness to myself, where I'm now really accepting that I, I do have it all. Like, and, you know, we can get into whatever you want to get into.

But we're already in. We're already in.

And so it's very interesting for me because I sold my company at the end of last year and I then had that time to like, reflect and look upon myself and kind of like sit in. Okay. Like taking stock of what's life right now for Chris, where am I at? And I've created financial freedom for myself.

At what age?

I'm 30. I'm 36 now. Just turned 36.

Yeah.

So I've created financial freedom for me, financial freedom. This was thanks to a mentor of mine, but 200% financial freedom, which means my passive to semi passive income pays for 200% of what it costs me and my family to live. And so that was something that I've wanted to be striving for for a really long time. And I'm at, I'm in great shape. My health is amazing. My marriage with my wife, we recently went through some really hard stuff. And I thought it was good before, but now it's 100 times better than I ever thought it could be. And what was really interesting as well is kind of like there was a huge ending of like this 10 year chapter of my life because it was a bit over 10 years ago. I left Sydney. I moved to Dubai to start a fitness business. I lived in Dubai for two years. That's also when we had our first daughter. And I was in Dubai for two years. I burnt out doing the same thing again. And then that's when I realized wanted to do like this online business thing and I wanted to take my fitness business online. And when we did that, that's when we sold everything, gave everything away in Dubai. We moved to Bali and then we lived in Bali for nine years. We've only just recently moved from Barley back to Australia. Is kind of like our, our mainstay. And then I was looking at all of this and I was like, this is amazing. Like, I have these amazing friends. You being one serve, which I seriously, really appreciate. Because every time I get together with you, yes. Every time we chat, I'm just like, God damn it. Josh is a good dude, like, this.

Is brother from another mother in a dimension.

Dude. Totally. And then business wise, everything's fantastic. Money's fantastic, health, fantastic physique, fantastic. Relationships, fantastic. And I just. I looked at the wheel of life and I was like, I've got it all. I've checked these boxes. Not that it's totally perfect and I don't think it ever will be or should be as well, but for me, it's this interesting position of now sitting back. And why I'm doing what I'm doing right now, and I think why I'm driven to actually want to sit here and do these trips is because I want to have these conversations in a way, because I want to give back. And that was the thing for me is like, I've. I'm so grateful for everything that has transpired and come about. I want to be able to leave something behind, to be able to have others be able to do that as well. Because on the flip side as well, in the last 10 years, with all these amazing things that have come about, I've had depression, I've had a lot of suicidal ideation. I've had anxiety attacks. Like, one of them, I thought I was having a heart attack. And I thought, like, this was it.

Like, you've been in the tunnel, as Alison Armstrong would say, dude, Alison Armstrong's work. You've been in the tunnel.

Incredible. And I. I think I'm just. I don't think I'm out, if I could be honest.

Oh, you're still in the tunnel.

I think I. I don't know.

I don't know. You can have it all and still be in the tunnel.

I think I'm still coming out there feels like there is still some snake skin that needs to be shed. And I'm coming to better know who Chris is today and who I've been able to create today. And, like, letting go of past identities, past beliefs, past assumptions, past character traits, and now figuring out, who am I today? And it was actually literally days before I came on this trip. I had a session with this lady and it was really interesting. And then what really came out of it was this is the first time in my life I've been able to ask, what does Chris want? Because we. I sold the company. And then it was only about a month after that, we left Bali, came to Australia. And it was incredible, us moving, because with my four daughters, they're. They're just so happy. We got them into the Steiner school we wanted them to go into. My wife has been able to just, like, she's levitating with happiness. It's. And it's so great. And for her to turn around. This is one of the coolest things was my wife turns around and goes, thank you so much for the life that you've provided for us. And I was like, oh, that. That bleeding through the forehead and pain and anguish and suffering. I felt like I went through in the last 10 years, all worth it. I'll do it again.

Just for that one phrase.

Yeah, strap me back in. I'll do it again. Like, it was such a. Oh, I feel like.

I feel like that's the tip of the iceberg with your life. And this is a cool, like, wisdom trade podcast. You know, I haven't done one of these in a while, so I'm reflecting on everything you're saying. It's almost like that scene in Terminator where he's getting hit with the bullets. I'm, like, wiggling back and forth, just receiving everything you're telling me. And, you know, the beauty of it all is, like, you know, at 36, I started my podcast. I started my life really, after my dark night of the soul and me not wanting to be here anymore on my knees, crying to God in 2015. So I was 35 years old when I kind of started my. Really started my journey. And one year later, you are closing a chapter. That's pretty wild, man. So this is why I'm stoked to podcast with you, because this concept of have it all, I'm like, how do I have it all? I remember I was meeting with a. After I had a psychic break, I was meeting with a mentor, Paul Check. And I. I was shedding all of these, I guess you could say, broken parts of the mirror inside of my psyche after getting my ass kicked so hard with Ayahuasca. And he's like, well, what is the thing? Like, what's causing you the most pain? What is it, Josh? Like, what's. What is it? And I said, how do I do it all? How do I do it all? How do I have it all? How do I do it? And he grabbed me by the shoulders and he looked at me, and he took a breath and he said, well, who's doing it anyways? Who's the one who's doing it anyways? And I didn't really understand it at a time, but what he was talking about was, you and I are God. We're God, experiencing God's self in unlimited ways. Who's doing it anyways is God. And it's this, like, connection with God. And I wonder for you, brother, like, did you have at some point a come to Jesus, come to God moment where you had to crack your heart wide open, otherwise maybe you would have left the planet or. And I want to be sensitive, you know, for anyone that's dealing with, like, suicide or suicidal ideation, like, it's a serious topic, not something we just need to, like, breeze over. But. But what was there a come to God moment in your life that. That you really felt transitioned you to be able to hold it all and have it all and be a space for it all?

I think there's many moments. I don't think there was just like, one, but there was for sure one instance when it was soon after I was diagnosed with depression. And then I felt like. Like, for me, the sense that it was. The imagery was I was in a deep, dark ocean and I was just keeping my head above water. At any moment, I knew I could go under. And that was it. And then the next thought was like, I just, what's the point? What, why, why continue? And maybe it's better if I just go. And quite legitimately thinking I just. No one's really going to care if I go. Maybe I just go. And then the next thought being like, I have a family and I want, like, no, I've got. I've got to take care of them. I've got to serve and provide and protect, and I've, like, they're the ones I care about. And then I had this conflict, this, like, this tension in my mind of wanting to be able to serve my family and, like, be everything I possibly can be to best be able to help and support them better as well. Just being like, what's the point? I'm not. I'm. I'm not that important, like, that they can replace me super easily.

Do you feel like that was chemical or spiritual, that. That gnawing negative concert?

I actually think it's spiritual. And thank you for asking that, because a lot of the time, like, I was. I was taking care of my health. I was doing all of those things. I mean, like, I was like, healthy microbiome. Yeah. Like, dude. I was like, I was like, good. I believe in that fact. There was something else happening. There was. There was another reason why I had to go through that. And I do like to believe that there is a reason for. Gives me a little bit of the good feels, you know, I mean, and when I think of the philosophies of, okay, maybe on one hand we have Like a fatalistic point of view of life. Do I mean like everything is pre written by God and it's just going to be the way it is sort of thing. And then there's the other being free will. Do you mean like I can do and achieve and be absolutely anything? You know, I just need to work hard enough for it, which I do not believe either. And there is this gentleman, this dance, this harmony that I believe that needs to be there, which simply is how do I best show up to this world? That's the thing that's like, that's really gotten me recently. How do I best show up and how do I best serve? And I'm going to say Paul in just a few days, so it would be really interesting. I'd love to like doing, continue that conversation and see what he has to say with this as well.

Sure.

Because when you were getting cracked open, why do you think you were getting cracked open?

Why do I think? Well, I know in a deep part of my soul that there has been also me drinking from this river of forgetfulness of how fucking amazing I am, of how loved I am, of how supported I am. I forgot just like we all do, man. And I forgot. And so in that moment, I thought it was in ayahuasca because I like to chase peak states. I feel like, oh, in the peak state there's going to be something awesome. And that was why I was asking you, like, okay, was there the come to Jesus moment? And you were like, God, there's so many, there's so many moments that to me was a true psychic break where for two years I had to heal myself. I had to do specific prayers and take care of myself in a specific way. Post Ayahuasca, post Ayahuasca ceremony, I went way too far. It was a center that I can't talk about, but my, my audience knows about it. It's a place down in Tamarindo, so, so stay away from there. But medicine's not bad. It's just a tool. And so it's whatever intention I hold the tool with that gets built. So I'm not going to build something if I have this improper tool and the wrong intention. But you can also have the wrong intention and have a really powerful tool and, and hurt people that you're really trying to help, including yourself. That's my story. So in that moment, I, I drank way too much. I, I got what's called an entity attachment. Now, Chris, if you'd have told me this like five years ago, had that, okay, so you know about this? You heard of this? The Native Americans call it soul loss. And when you have soul loss, it's like you have a normal mirror that you and I look through. That mirror gets shattered and then everything that you see has like a crystalline kaleidoscope. You can't see clearly. Like I, I wouldn't be able to really experience you because I would have had so much hyper vigilance in my own nervous system. And so that was like, probably I would say in my whole life that was the biggest come to God moment because I was trying to access God. What I was shown was you don't access God through ayahuasca and plant medicine. You can you access God through the ceremony of life. Like you and I being fathers and husbands and partners and leaders. Like, that's. We're in a ceremony right now, dude. You and I are in a ceremony at this table, which is funny. It's from Costa Rica.

Can you notice I keep. Okay, I'm like rubbing these things.

The table is from Tamarinda, Costa Rica. But, but we're in a ceremony right now because you know this question. How do I have it all? I feel like it's a moving target. And I feel like it's a moving target for every single person with us. It's like one day you're good, then it changes, you know, I guess you could call it the expansion and contraction vortex of life where sometimes stuff gets easy, sometimes it gets hard, but you never want to get too attached to either one. And for me, that's manifested with like this private studio and having a beautiful home and a beautiful relationship and another baby on the way. So I have all the proof, like the, the conscious proof is there of my success and really like I fucking have it all. Like multiple six figures a year that I could have dreamed about and doing something I care about and like traveling. Just like you to have conversations that matter, that really, that, that get people to do something different and feel something different. But I will say, and maybe you can speak to this too. Like there is this part of me at times that comes through almost like a little serpent in the Garden of Eden. And it'll come in and it'll say, are you sure? Are you sure? Like, it's all, it's like it's in the corner doing push ups. And then when I'm open to it, you know, if I'm not sleeping enough, if I'm not fed well enough, if I'm stressed out, whenever my, my physical portions of me aren't taken care of. That's when it likes to come in. And it'll plant these little seeds, and then I'll project that onto my partner and. And I see it in her, too, and I see it in all of us. Like, we. We need to be nourished. And I've been teaching this wellness Pentagon aspect for a while, and I bet you could relate to this, and we could jam on this at the bottom of the pentagon, that the bedrock is the physical. You know, the physical, the emotional, the spiritual, the financial. Like, these. These are the things that are so important. And if we don't have that, if I don't nourish that within myself, that's when I feel like I'm more susceptible to what you struggle with, which was the depression and. And even anxiety, too. Anxiety is like, I don't trust myself in the future to handle the load that God has given me. And also depression. I'm stuck in a shame spiral about how I should have shown up. Or I'm stuck in a depressed energy state. You know, the opposite of depression is expression. I'm stuck in this ocean with a freaking tentacle around my ankle, but I'm the one holding on. I'm the one that could just, like, undo the tentacle. So. There's a lot there, bro. There's a lot there. But I would say, like, all of these things happen as a gift. Like, I. If I could go back and change it, I don't think I would. Even though I almost lost my fucking mind. And literally, it was right when Kerry, Michelle and I got together and I had this insane experience of, like, psychic shattering and having OCD looping thoughts for well over 16 months. I'm grateful because it brought me closer to Paul, it brought me closer to myself, but most importantly, it brought me closer to the creator, the one that created me. The one that created you. We don't need to, like, intellectualize it, because in our modern world, we intellectualize the shit out of God. But I feel like really what God is, is this part of us that has never changed. You and I have been little boys at one point in our lives and little girls out there, too. Like, it's the part of us that has never changed. It's the part of us that has always known that we are here, that we're alive before all the programming and projections and bullshit got in from society and parents and shit. That part, that essence of us is really God. The other stuff is God too. But I feel like it's tests. Like, God is testing Us. I feel like God is always testing us, you know? So when I look at you and I. And I experience you as a man, you know, four kids and great relationship and traveling, living in Bali, kind of semi retired, right? You're Semi retired at 36?

Well, it's funny because I'm working more now than I was when I was like, at running the company before I sold it.

Yeah.

Because I'm so much more motivated and inspired into what I'm doing today. And which is the interesting part, because, like, front facing, like we were talking about this before we hit record, like, front facing. I have nothing to sell to people at the moment, but I have nothing to sell. I'm not trying to sell anything. I'm literally losing money because I'm spending a lot of money being able to do these trips. I'm more than happy to put that investment in because I feel like I'm just being completely selfish in investing myself right now. I want to have these conversations because I want to have mirrored back to me. I want to be able to learn. I want to be able to then take what I can to be able to then share with others as well. Behind the scenes, I partner with amazing people to help grow their businesses because I do have that expertise. I do know I'm really goddamn good at that stuff as well. And I enjoy it. But it's not the be all and end all. Because one concept I was playing with, which was really interesting because it soon came to me after I finally realized I wanted to sell the company and move on. And it was something that I was toying with for a really long time, which was I had the idea that I wanted to do this and I was like, I want to sell my coaching company. And so many people like, you can't sell a coaching company. Like, no one sells a coaching company. And I was like, no, I want to do this. And I had a lot of feeling of unworthiness, of being good enough, smart enough, whatever, enough to be able to actually do it. And it was me. This was a bit of a come to Jesus moment in a different format. Yeah. I was literally on my knees crying to my wife one night being like, I can't keep doing this. I can't keep running this business. This just. It just felt so out of alignment. It just wasn't me. And I. I had evolved past it. Yeah, I just. I was not the same person that founded that company. And I have evolved past it. And I knew I just had to move on some way, shape or form.

Who was the guy that founded the company.

He was a lesser version of me that was driven by very different things.

Compared to like aesthetics or money or.

It was money, power and wanting to be successful, to have the admiration of others.

Ah, yeah.

And that's when. Because in the negotiation of the sale of the company, Josh, the guy that I sold the company to, amazing human being, I love him so much. Were in the negotiations and he was like, if you hang on to this company for a little while longer, like you'll make millions more. And I was like, I don't care. This the, the driving factor here is not the money. I don't want to have more. I want to be more. That's why I need to move on right now. And that's what drove the factor. And it was amazing. It was an amazing experience being able to go through that. And then it was me figuring out, well, how do I do mean move on? What is it that I want to start doing after this? And it's an interesting part to really, to truly question what does some like what do I want? And really passing away old labels, old goals and targets, old character traits that I might have had. And especially then also looking like I was thinking of like Rene Girard, like mimesis theory. Do you know what I mean? So it's like a case of so if I spend time with you domain and you're going, you're living your life, you're saying these are things you want, I'm going to start mimicking what's going on. I'm going to be affected by my outside environment and the people that I'm with. And so I can start wanting things and pursuing things and doing things that aren't to my truest value, that aren't to my like essence, that aren't my like gestalt of what it is best for me.

Unless you're around like your sole family, the people that are healthy and wealthy and wise.

I think that as well. But I think it just still comes back to me, the individual, the self, like what is truly, truly in the essence of what's in the middle of here. And I. That's when I had to really do the work of. I'm great intellectually, I can, I can work some really brilliant things. But for me it was. And I got told this through God damn. I think I've seen every possible healer, doing person, shaman, whatever, and it was kept coming back to the heart. I had to open up my heart. I had to open up and listen and to really have some Inner guidance from what was going on here. And that's then very thankfully led me to being able to do what's happened and transpired through this.

I think it's cool because most people, they want to get to the top of the mountain. And in our society, especially in America, I'm sure it might be similar in Oz. You get to the mountain however you want, however you can, you know, screw the competitor, crush the competitor, kill people along the way. And I think that's total bullshit. But that was in 2015, 2016, and maybe even some of 2017. I was that guy. I would do literally whatever I needed to do. And I can smell it on new entrepreneurs that reach out to me where they're like, I can feel that graspiness, that lack that neediness. And it's because, like, they're at the bottom of the mountain. Like, you essentially, dude, for lack of a better term, are on the top of a mountain, and you're deciding which other mountain you want to climb. It's a pretty amazing space.

Totally. And I think the case is it's not about getting to the top of the mountain. That. That's. That's not it. The journey doesn't end ever. But for me, I had this realization. I was sitting in my backyard, all my four daughters were playing, and I was kind of just like, I was with the fairies. I was just completely daydreaming, just like doing off in la la land. And I was looking at these bed of flowers, and I was looking at flowers, and there's these big, beautiful flowers that are blooming. They're gorgeous. Then there were some other ones that were just like, growing. They're not quite there. Do you know what I mean? They're like halfway through, and those ones are just like, just poking through the soil. And then I was thinking, I was like, then there's the seeds as well. They're under the ground. They haven't even come through the soil yet. But I was like, do I think any less of the seeds compared to the blooming flowers, even compared to the ones that are through there? They're all on their journey. And I was like, why am I thinking any less of myself or of anyone else? We're all just on our journey and just being able to accept and surrender and being able to have, like, a loving, compassion, openness to, like, you are who you are, and I want to take you for exactly for who you are today. And this really transpired and opened up into the marriage with my wife because what's happened very recently Is suddenly I see her for who she is today, not over the last years of the 11 years of marriage and even before that. And she's turned around and said, I see you for the man that you are today. And it's been incredible, this opening up, because I think, because I was then continuing to think about this, I was intellectualizing on it. I was like, there is two things I think is very important for love to be there. One is curiosity, a consistent and a curious mind to always say, who's Josh? Who's Josh today? Not the Josh the last time I spoke to you. Not the Josh I was the last time here for you. But who are you today? And I want to meet you with where you are at right now. And then integrity. How can I be the most integrous person I am right now to completely open up and to be here with you? Yes.

And when we plug in those two things, resentment and judgment or resentment and expectation, they can't fucking live there. They try to live there, but they're not able to be built. It's almost like they're not given the permit.

So what was really interesting for me, because you said a kind of word that was something I was thinking about, which was resentment.

Yeah.

Because what had happened was I sold the company. We decided to move from Bali back to Australia. And then getting back to Australia, it was great. Do you mean like, my daughters were completely taken care of. They're thriving. Like, we could just literally see them just like open up like flowers. I'm really loving flowers today. Opening up like flowers. And then my wife just being like, I'm loving life. Everything is amazing. She's just like. And she literally, she said, I've gotten everything that I've wanted. Like, everything. Do you mean it was this gorgeous multimillion dollar home? There was a new car in the garage. There was just everything like, it was. It was bliss and beautiful. And then I went, what about me? I hadn't thought about myself during this period. And I felt like a selfish prick when I first thought about that. But I also then realized that I wasn't best actually serving myself as well. And I need to be able to nourish and fill my cup so that I can continue to be able to serve. And I felt that kind of like seed of resentment starting to come out. And I was like, oh, this is not good. This is not healthy. Yeah, I need to do something about this. And that's when I recently started to go through that process.

And that's when you started really podcasting and traveling and getting you filled.

Yeah, right.

That's what this is. It's like, it feels like a soul redemption tour of, of some sorts, right, because you're filling maybe all the parts of yourself that you had to provide for for others in the past. And I definitely, I'm kind of in that right now. Like, full stop moment. I'm there now. I'm looking at the next baby coming. It's the most money I've ever made, but I know that there's more and I've driven to make more. But it's not because I want to have like another car, another truck or whatever. It's because I want to provide. Like, there's this biological intuition in my system, like the intelligence of myself, my soul and my body is expressing into the world. And it's saying, provide, provide. Like really strong, almost like a gong dong, provide. Like I'm standing at the top of a. Of a hill and I'm like banging this, I'm banging this bell and I'm like, I'm going to provide as deeply as I can. And so one thing that I've been struggling with is as I step into more providership and more expansiveness, to be able to shepherd new life and to take care of my woman and to be the provider is that same question man that Paul and I explored. And that is, can I have it all? How do I do it all? How do I do it all? And you know what's really coming up for me lately has been this. Even with all my training, the pasta nas, the plant medicines, the float tanks, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. All this stuff that you and I have done, you know, it's still coming up. What's still coming up is I can't take care of myself. I can't nourish Josh. I can't train in the garage. I can't do my cold and my heat. I can't fill me up unless I know that there's a six month financial Runway for my family, unless that six month Runway is in place for them. There's a subconscious narrative that says you can't have that yet. And that's what I'm in the process of just saying. Thank you for your attention. Thank you for what you're sharing with me. I know you're here to protect me. I actually speak to this part of me, and I know exactly where it comes from. But I'm in the process of letting it know that it can rest. Like my buddy Mark Groves told me on the podcast once he's like when it comes to all this shit that we deal with in life, especially as men, there's a narrative and that is the adult is here, the child can rest. So this child in me is like, oh, when I was young. And the fractal connects to this. When I was young, my dad sacrificed his health to become very financially successful. My dad's a very financially successful man, but we don't have a relationship. He's never met my partner, he's never met my son. He hasn't even expressed any interest in the new baby. So all of that is there. And deep within my soul, I am still healing this part of myself that I think honestly, if every man tuned in, it's kind of there for us. Unless we had a really beautiful relationship with our dads, I am still present to the father and me. And how I Father Nova being aware that there's still a young part of Josh that is still hurt and still wounded by the fact that his dad could not show up in the way that he truly needed. And it's not to shame my father because he did the best he could. Just as yours did. Just like Kai's did. Just like all of. All of our fathers did the best. But sometimes the best is not enough. And that's okay. Like we have to take an emotional inventory and like an ownership of that. So that's where it comes from. It comes from me like subconsciously modeling what if the.

What if they're not enoughness from that parent is the best. And it was exactly what it was supposed to be. Because for me, what I came to was I've had this journey and my parents, I know my parents did the absolute best that they could have. And like I grew up in a house where we didn't have money and that all of those experiences culminated into where I am at today, which I'm so thankful for. So thankful for. I love that my parents never gave me a cent. Love that. Do you mean I've become very self sufficient as well? And there's obviously there's a. There's a light and a dark to it as well. There's like there's a. A pendulum that can swing if you take something too far the other way also. But for me it was like, what if it was exactly the way it was supposed to be?

Well, of course it was, otherwise it wouldn't have happened. Yeah, of course, of course. I'm. I'm right there with you. I guess what I'm sharing is like, you know, your, your parents might not have given you money, but they gave you other things. And money is this fabrication of the construct of the mind because of the 3D reality we live in, where we're trying to make sense of everything. Like, oh, we're going to trade money. Which I actually kind of think is cool. Like, conscious capitalism is pretty cool.

I think it's amazing.

It's fucking awesome.

It's amazing. Especially as an entrepreneur, what I do and the people that I work with and why I get along so well with them is because I believe that it's about how do I bring greater value to the marketplace, how do I provide and serve and solve other people's problems that are in the best interest of them. And absolutely. It's also in the best interest of me because I'm able to design it that way as well.

Yeah. Yeah. And I'm right there with you again. Like, I. I actually feel like we're on the same train. I just want to unpack one more compartment because. Because in this compartment is like, okay, what was your mom and dad's name?

Solange and David.

Solange and David. So Solange and David. And for me, Dan and Mary, like, they literally did the best they could, and that was the best they could do. And there's going to be ways that you show up for your daughters. That is not going to be enough. And there's going to be ways where I show up for Nova and my second baby, where it's not going to be enough. And that's still okay. It's still. Just because it's not enough doesn't mean that we need to shame our parents or blame them or attach any responsibility to me being the way I am because I attach to a victim story about what I didn't get. Fuck that. That's not what I'm saying. But what I am saying is, regardless of my. My master of the mind and my heart as a father and as a man, there's still a somatic experience. There's still a nervous system experience in my physical body that remembers everything, Chris. It remembers how I was born. Look at Dave Asprey and his story about the cord wrapped around his neck. Look at all the family constellation work from Mark Wolin. And look at all the intergenerational trauma that's passed on with emotional epigenetics. Like, this shit's real. It's scientifically proven. So, yes, to unpack that compartment fully in the train. Like, dude, it is not their fault. It is kind of the way that it was not kind of it is the way that it was supposed to unfold, otherwise it would not have unfolded that way. But I will say that sometimes parents do their best. And it's this paradox of it. On one hand, it was all they had to give because they didn't get it from their parents. Right, so what, are we going to go all the way back to the source of time where we all drank from the river of forgetfulness? Maybe. But really it's like they show up, we show up, we do the absolute best we can. And on some level it is enough. Right, because it's enough for us. But on another level, it's not enough for our kids because they are a different soul with a different life expression of us. And so it's not about shame, it's just about conscious vulnerability where I tend to the child inside of me. And that's why we get anxiety and depression, is not because the adult in us gets it, it's because the child gets it. The. The unregulated child gets the anxiety and depression. So that's really the train that we're on is the child inside the adult needs to be the master, though.

No, I do love that. And you said something like with Dave Ashby's story about being born with the umbilical cord wrapped around his neck, which is actually something that's very common. And it was with my third daughter's birth. And so my first daughter was born and it was at a hospital, was supposed to have a water birth. My wife couldn't make it down, so she ended up giving birth, like in the corridor. I was behind her, holding her and like looking over her shoulder and seeing all of our oldest come out and like immediately her eyes just looked at us. And that was the switch that I just. I be. I instantly became a man that day. Like, that was the thing that I say. Chris, from a boy to a man.

It was like the Stargate portal with Kurt Russell. I don't know if you've seen that movie.

Totally do.

You're one person, you go through a portal, you're a complete. You ain't gonna ever be the previous Chris 100. No way.

And then through the other three girls being born, me being there at a doing. We had home births. Being able to literally receive my daughters into the world. Yeah. Our third daughter had the umbilical cord wrapped around her neck and ibu. Robin Lim, our midwife, the most. One of the most amazing women I've ever met. Just very gently. Do you mean took control, unwrapped it? Like not A problem whatsoever. Please. As you know, I'm just. I'm very much looking forward to hearing your experience with your new child coming to the world.

I'm looking forward to sharing.

Child comes into this world. I bring them up and out. And there's that moment where I stop breathing. I stop my heart beating. Because you're waiting for this noise to come out of this child, to make sure it's alive and good. And then it squawks and it mean. It breathes out and it's like, oh, my God, this is so amazing. Do you mean. And then, oh, I pass doing our daughter onto my wife's chest and it's just bliss. And those four experiences were transformative for me. And I really do. I wish more men could experience that. I really wish, because I'm so.

Thank you.

That my wife wanted to go through that. And I thank her so much for that because it was just incredible.

A shout out to all women. Shout out to all women.

That birth, children, easy.

We. I love being a man. Maybe I remember. I don't know if I'm supposed to talk about this, but I'm gonna say it, like, off the camera. Alison Armstrong told me that in a past life she was a black man.

Wow.

I've never talked about this publicly ever. This is cool. And she said that's why she has so much insight into understanding men. That's why she teaches women about men. And I don't know in a past life if I was a woman. I don't think so, but maybe who am I to know? Because I drank from that river of forgetfulness. But, man, when you shared it, it brought up a moment in the future, in the near future of me.

Bring the future.

Remembering the future in some way. And we don't. And really my point is we don't know what the hell we're doing here. We don't. And in the past, before ceremony work and before a lot of deep personal dives into the ocean of Josh, I would have. I would have, like, blinded myself to that fact. I would have not wanted to deal with that because I hadn't faced my own mortality. I hadn't seen my grandfather die. I hadn't seen my grandmother die. I hadn't been around death. And honestly, like, the uncomfortability of things was not talked about in my household. You know, death and life and emotions and sexuality and emotional intelligence. These were not things, Chris, that we were chatting about at dinner. It just was not there. And again, this isn't to shame my parents, like it was the contrast. I needed to now give that to my family. Right. Otherwise it wouldn't have transpired. But it's trippy to me, and I wonder how this has played out for you. And that is. The things that I don't explore, they always come back around. They always come back around. They either come back in my 30s or now I'm in my 40s. And I wonder if there's like some spiritual bank account that we're all managing in some dimension where the debts stack up and whether you pay them off in this lifetime or the next, you're going to have to pay them off.

Do you mean. Is that not what karma is? Is that not what the Buddhists talk to about doing, Working through the things to get off the karmic wheel?

It's essentially like a big ass credit card. We're gonna have to pay it off. You and I are gonna have to pay off our karma at some point. We can do it in this moment. You know, we can do it by not attaching blame to our parents. That's a beautiful way to. To have karmic cleanup. We can also do Kundalini yoga, which I had Vanessa on the show and she was talking about. We can. Like, you know, one thing that I really appreciate about you is you really, you really love and care for your body and that. And that emanates off of you. And so we can model all these good things. And I guess it's just the way that we pay it off, the way that we achieve, the way that we pay it off, the way that we live our lives is. Is paradoxically, like, so much more important than the end result. Like, dude, who cares about the mountain?

So for me, when you say that, and thank you for saying that. I do appreciate that. Josh.

Yeah.

Was. I asked myself a question very frequently and you talked about death. And I'd more than happy to jump in and talk about death as well. But the question I asked myself frequently is, if I had loved myself, would I Dot, dot, dot, right? So it's like, if I love myself, will I go to the gym today? If I love myself, will I read this book rather than watch Netflix? If I love myself, will I drink enough water today, whatever it is? And so I pose the question that way to myself. Because if I love myself, the if kind of takes the hardness and all of these other stuff that could stop us from kind of like, well, do I actually love myself? Which is obviously a journey that we need to be able to go on and very thankfully, much more Frequently, not all the time, but closely. I'm like, I do love myself. I do love this person that I have created and that I am and how I show up and what I do. Because people say to me, like, oh, Chris, you're in amazing shape. Like, I want to be in a body like you. What do I need to do? And I'm like, don't miss a workout for 10 years.

That's what you're telling you. Tell them, don't miss a workout for 10 years.

Don't miss a workout for 10 years. And then they say. Which was really interesting, actually. I had a. Do they go, yeah, exactly. Because they question themselves then with their commitment. But then someone recently said, oh, Chris, you're the most disciplined person that I know. And I thought about that and I was like, why? Why do you think that is? And they gave their reasons why and they. What they thought. They kind of, like, knew me behind the scenes with, like, work. And then there was, like, the physique and health and all this other stuff. And I go, that's really interesting because I. I don't see myself as, like, the most disciplined person in the world. You know, I mean, nothing like that. I see it more. And I share this because the few people I've shared this with before, like, they were like, oh, it gives them more hope and more of a direction to actually move towards, which was. I think it's actually about cultivating the character of who you are to do what it is that you do on a daily basis. And so as I really started to work through it, I was like, this is interesting. And I spoke about this with Ronnie, and it was like, I get a dopamine hit when I don't eat the donut. Right?

You've inverted the serotonin.

Flipped it over. Yeah, I flipped it over.

That's the goal.

So I think on one aspect, it's actually training yourself to be able to actually lean towards or naturally kind of navigate towards the actions that actually do best serve you as well. But then also it's actually the identity that you create. And this is where I feel like self esteem is so important, because I myself am the only person that really knows at the end of the day if I did something or not. I'm keeping score on myself 24 7, 365. And I love that because if I continue to take responsibility, then I continue to be in that place of power to know, like, oh, no, I didn't say what I was going to do. And for me, I think it's a very slippery slope of, well, if I didn't go to the gym today, did. I mean, what does that say to myself doing. If I didn't do this thing that I said to myself that I was going to do, what am I actually doing? Who am I becoming?

It goes. It goes against the identity that you have chosen to construct for self.

Right?

Is that what I'm getting from you? Like, you've built an identity of a man who. What I am a man who. Or I am a man.

That.

What is that for you?

That phrase does. Whatever it is that I decided I wanted to do. Do you know what I mean? Like, I want to be. And for me, I kind of bring this back to be very pragmatic and useful is first understanding, like, what are the values and virtues that somebody wants to operate from? So for me, I did the kind of like deep diving and like, pulling things back. And it's interesting because for me, there was four values and virtues that just everything kept coming back to. For me, it was one, wisdom. I'm extremely interested in wanting to be able to master these certain topics of life that just. I'm just highly interested in two, wealth. I want to be able to bring great value to the marketplace and then creates wealth for myself, my family, my community. Three is health. I want to be able to look, feel, and perform at my absolute very best day in, day out. And then four, love. I want to have loving relationships with people I absolutely endure and respect. Right. But what was interesting is, like, these aren't just words that are just kind of like, superficial and throwing them out there. This is like, no, show me your calendar, Josh. I want to see what you do on a daily basis because that will start to tell me what it is that you're actually putting your time, attention, energy and resources towards. Show me your bank account statement. That will show me what you're putting your time, energy, effort, and resources towards as well. And so when I kept pulling back, these four virtues just kept coming up for me. I was like, oh, this is what I lean forward to. So for me, like, literally designing life. Because when you're like, how to have it all right? I go, okay. What I want to be able to then start to unpack is like, well, then how do we design what it is that needs to happen for you to have it all in the context and definition that you're placing about it? And that design starts to then coming about, well, what are the values that you hold truest to yourself? And then how do we start to make that happen. So it almost becomes in this. Like, there's the Buddha quote when. When emptiness and compassion arisen, enlightenment is unavoidable. Unavoidable. Now you got to have some cojones to make a statement, a bold statement like that, like something is unavoidable. If I gave you a plan, I go, here, Josh, here's this plan. Have. Do these two things. Do you know what I mean? And it is unavoidable. Right. I was like, that's interesting, because I took that to a business context. I go, what is it that I need to be able to do that makes success unavoidable? What is it that I need to do to be able to have whatever it is that I want in life unavoidable? And then the only thing I don't truly have control of is time. And that's when I think there needs to be a letting go and a accepting that divine timing, along with the lady of fortune comes along with this as well.

Yeah.

Leaving.

Leave some space for mystery. Because sometimes if you try to plan everything top down, you don't leave any space for bottom up.

Well, truly, at the only. At the end of the day, we only control our thoughts and our actions. Everything else is out of our hands.

Oh, this is so good.

So therefore, give me a goal that you want, something you want to achieve.

$75,000 a month.

Okay, 75 grand a month. Right. So for you to have $75,000 every single month, and if it'd be unavoidable for you to attain that, what needs to be in place for there to get there. Now this is when you're really switching on my kind of like, entrepreneurial side, so I get real nitty gritty and, like, geek out on this stuff. Do you know what I mean?

Yeah.

So for me, I had. So post company, post selling company. I sat down, I was like, okay, what is it that I want? You really pulling this out of me, Josh. Okay, this is good.

Oh, dude.

Can I go on a riff for.

So how do we have it all? This is it.

Okay. So I can talk to this very confidently. And for me, it's a case of, okay, I sold the company. And then I thought about, where do I want to put my time, energy, effort, resources, all of this. And when sitting back. And really thanks my wife as well, because we had some really great discussions and open communication about this, I was like, I have four daughters, and right now they are nine, seven, three and one.

That's the gamut.

They're only going to Be this age now once. That's, that's it, that's it. And especially through talking, like with mentors and elders and doing people I look up to that are later in life, they're like, and it's natural. My daughters are going to become their sovereign, individual, powerful selves and they're going to move on and want to live those lives of themselves. Do you know what I mean? And so I only get this window of time, like thinking that my eldest daughter is nine right now, like blows me away because it's gone in a heartbeat. I was like, what? Wow, that's gone quickly.

Everybody says that.

And I was like, I, I want to make the most, I want to bring more presence for them today in this window. While I have also with my wife, I want to have more presence and more energy and effort for her because I just enjoy hanging out with her as well. So I want to be able to do that more. And then I was like myself, I want to be able to do things. And then it's this right now, I want to have more of these conversations. This rocks. Do you mean, like, this is really soul filling. And so what does that mean though? That means that I don't have the this time, energy, effort and resources going towards business, right? So for me, I sat back and I was like, okay, there is only so much energy that we can actually then put out, right? There's only so much I can get done in a certain day. So I sat back and go, all right, there's this concept I came up with and it was, what is my minimum profit that I want to create, right? So I'd already created like from passive to semi passive income. There was already this money that was coming in that pays for life. So technically I don't have to work domain to live, which I'm very thankful for. But I want to continue to work because I love it. Do I want to do the things that light me up? So what is. And I urge the viewer, the audience to be able to think about this as well. What's your minimum profit? What's the minimum amount of money that you want to be able to bring in each and every month? But then what's the maximum output that you're willing to put in to get that minimum profit, right? So for me, I came to, I want 120 grand a month, and I only want to work 12 hours a week on those actions that create the 120 grand a month, right? So therefore I can step back and I actually create the business model the economic model for. What is it that the business needs to do to be able to give me that? Because at this phase of my life, I look at. You might. I'm sure you see this stuff as well. There are so many people out there giving advice and giving information out online. There's just like, how to grow your business more and more and more. And it's like how to get these.

Their. Their advice is predicated on people paying them for their advice. It's like the biggest MLM scam I've ever.

Which, if you haven't, I highly suggest you read Harry Frankfurt's essay on bullshit.

Great.

Because there is a difference between. And lying. Bullshit. Bullshitters are driven by the end result. Right. They'll tell the truth if they can tell the truth, but they will bullshit to get to the end result if they need be. Right. And so if someone's getting paid to be able to do something, they're motivated. Their incentive is for them to be able to get to the end result, which is a content creator. Right. If we kind of like put that out there, a content creator will create content that says a certain message that can be very heavily bullshitted because it just gets the end result at the end of the day. That's right. They're driven by the incentive of that machine.

Yeah.

And that's why I was like, this is interesting, because why I haven't wanted to sell anything in this period because I can be in a position where I'm freely able to share what is truth to me. And the incentive is not there for me to have to make money off it. Right. So if I quickly take this step back and I go, all right, I for myself, I was like 120 grand a month. I want to be able to do that off 12 hours work a week. What's the actual business for that to be able to happen? I sit back, I can piece together that model, and then I think of four things, which is, what is the actual economic model of the business? What's the acquisition model of the business? What's the delivery model of the business? What's the operational model of the business? They're the four things I need to have in place. The business can then run really smoothly. So then it would just be going through the same process with you. You know what I mean? It'd be like, you want 75 grand a month, Cool. Easy peasy. How much work do you want to do? But then what's your zone of genius? Right? What's Josh's zone of genius? What's the work that you want to be doing that is one necessary as a revenue generator inside of the business, but lights your soul up at the same time. Then delegate the other stuff whilst you can so then the business actually operates.

You make it sound very crystal clear. It is probably why people have paid you for this. And it's really cool because, yes, you can always. What I got from you is a really intelligent reverse engineer of how many hours do you want to work and what's your revenue goal? It's clear. And I would assume that when people go from that space of reverse engineering from time and money, that along the way, worthiness, habits, mindset, all this stuff bubbles up, which really, I think what it is is dark energy. It's dark matter that runs through our lineage that you heal for your father and so do I, and our parents and our grandparents. And this is kind of where we're at in society right now, which is why it's been so hard with the pandemic and CV19 and mind control and amygdala hijacking. We're at this like culmination, you know, like an orchestra when the conductor goes, da, da, da. And it rises up. We're at that point like, we're in the movie right now. We're in a fucking crescendo. Yes, we're in a grand movie. Like we're in the crescendo right now. And in that crescendo, people are choosing what notes do they want to play, do they want to go with the the orchestra or do they want to cower and grow small? It's not to shame them because I feel that inside of me at times. What business did you pick? Like, what did you pick when you said 12 hours, 120k? Obviously you can't sit here and do an entire podcast about all the micronutia of your biz. But what did you choose and how did you make that work? Doing the cold plunge and cold thermogenesis is fast becoming the number one way to increase your health and metabolism, which directly leads to weight loss. Let's hear from Ryan Dewey, the CEO and co founder of Plunge, to learn more. At this point, you've probably heard about cold plunging some work on the Internet and wondering what all the hype is about. Well, here at Plunge, we like to take all the stress out of the problem by providing at home cold plunge units that provide crystal clear cold water on demand, as opposed to lugging ice and getting that trough in place and dealing with dirty water. The Plunge Provides it always in there ready for you. Cold plunge is one of the greatest ROI tools that's out there. Two to three minutes every single day and you get the increased dopamine levels, a more resilient immune system, a regulated nervous system and ultimately just a more calm, peaceful outlook on life. We truly believe that when you take the plunge, you change your life. We'd love for you to check us out and see what the cold plunge is all about. Save 150 off your brand new plunge plus get free shipping right to your home by heading over to joshtrent.com plunge. Use the code wellnessforce. This is Hands down my top, top daily biohack for longevity, inner peace and mitochondrial health. Don't miss out on this special limited time deal. Head over to joshtrend.com plunge use the code wellness force. Save $150 off your brand new plunge and a super special deal of free shipping.

So for now it's great question. I'm happy to share about this stuff because I really don't think I've ever publicly shared this. So this is kind of like the exclusive let's go for me. I now partner with coaches and experts and influencers to help grow their businesses. So quite literally, after I finish here in Austin, I'm actually flying to California to go spend some time with a couple of partners and work with them to be able to do it. So I'm behind the scenes helping them where I'm able to take a minority part of their business, to be able to get them in their zone of genius and then to be able to engineer and create the business around them so then it flourishes.

That's what you do now. But when you made that decision, 12 hours a week, 120k a month, when was that on the journey?

Oh, that was extremely soon after I sold the company.

So within a couple years from now. Two years ago. Year ago.

Four months ago.

Four months ago. Okay. When you were, when you were in the business, do you have that same mindset? I want to spend this much time, I want to make this much money. Let me reverse engineer.

Yes. Because I was able like well. So okay, so especially in the coaching style business, like a coaching or consultant expert style business.

Yeah.

It's renowned to be extremely hard to sell because it's not a sellable asset because the person, the face behind the business is the one that's generating everything. You take that person out, the business just falls apart. Most coaches and consultants don't have a business. They really have a glorified job, because I define a business as a business is going to continue to be able to generate revenue and when you, the owner can walk away, Right? So I did it in bits and pieces. So for me, I. I was the face of the business. You mean, I was the one doing the content, I was the one doing the sales calls. I was the one doing the delivery, like, the whole thing. And then step by step, I was able to grow the company and to be able to get team members and be able to grow the systems behind it. And then very thankfully, I was able to fully pull myself out of it. So I wasn't in the marketing, I wasn't in the sales process. I wasn't in the delivery. Do you know what I mean? And then I was really behind the scenes, just operationally running, like, as the CEO. And then I need to be. I needed to be able to replace myself there as well. Because I remember there was a really interesting day when I realized that there were. There were people, there were clients getting signed on and getting great results. So they were getting coaching, getting the delivery, and they didn't know who I was. And I was like, oh, my God, I think I've done it. Like, I think I've done this thing that I really wanted to be able to do, like, yeah. And to truly be able to grow the business that way.

And it was using your methodology to sell people into fitness programs.

What it was so that I actually. So the. The company that I sold was helping health and fitness professionals grow their business. So I. I started with online fitness. Like, I was a physique coach. I was getting people like, you mean in great shape. But then I fell more in love with the business than I did with fitness. So then. Well, actually, to be perfectly honest, I was running three businesses. This is ages ago. There was the fitness business. There was a supplement company that I was selling through retail in Australia, and then there was a business coaching. And I sat down with a mentor of mine and he was like, to choose one, like, you can't do three things. I was like, right. So anyway, I think I chose the right one.

This is so good. This is. I heard this acronym. I think it was from back in the day, like John lee Dumas in 2016, when I first started podcasting. Focus. Follow one course until success. Follow one course until success.

So I'm not going to take credit. This is a mentor of mine shared and he. He calls it the 5:1. So in most people, especially in, like, coaches and consultants, but I think this applies to A lot. Which was you want to choose one method to be able to get people to know who you are. So like driving traffic. You want one method to be able to actually build a list. You want to be able to have one way in which you sell them. You want to be able to have one thing in which you're actually selling and you do it for one year and do not deviate until you've done it for at least one year. And I like those five ones because it helps just bring everything back into simplicity. Yeah, stop trying to do 100 million different things, dude. And the thing is there are so many different things that you can do and they all work right. But it's what's going to work for you right now that's the important thing. And then it's being able to do the actions needed to be able to get to the end result.

I feel like I don't know if it was Dr. Kyra Bobinat or Dr. John. He wrote a book called the Brain Always Wins. Or maybe, I mean anybody pulled from this. Maybe do hig pulled from this. Newport pulled from this for their books. It's this heuristic in the brain that when. When a perceived threat or when a perceived load is seen or experienced, the brain likes to create a way out of the uncomfortableness. And I forget the term of it. Somebody like please drop it in the comments.

But.

So if I have, let's say if I'm about to speak on a stage in front of 5,000 people and I'm preparing the week before and I go to get my speech and I go to practice it and I notice that the floor needs to be vacuumed or. Or I notice that dinner or meal prep needs to have. I'll do everything else except for that one thing. It's almost like the one thing avoidance, whatever the psychological term is for that, I would assume that you had that show up because I know I've definitely had that show up for me. Like I use. I used to podcast out of a fricking spare bedroom on a rickety ass plastic little holder. I remember my like the first time I ever interviewed Dr. John Gray. I was so broke I was 80k in debt.

Yeah.

I had no. Like I would. There was preposterous for me to be doing what I was doing and then look at me now on the other side. I had to like face that. That part of the brain, that heuristic. That shortcut.

Yeah.

Inside of my psyche. Even when every single cell in my body said stop, you're not good enough. Who are you to do this? Like there's that grit that goes well beyond the physical. Maybe it's hormonal cascade, but there's something about my soul that just said no like that. And I've mentioned this a thousand times. Like that scene in the Matrix where Neo dies and then he comes back on the hallway and he puts his hand up and they're shooting bullets at him and he just simply puts his hand up softly and he says no. And the bullets fall like a calm resolve from a place of utter fierceness. To not do battle with the parts of the psyche that want to avoid responsibility and avoid growth, but simply just to parent over them. Like to be a solid parent over your own mind. Like that had to have come up for you.

I think it. Yes, for sure. And I think it's about. I don't want to give a glossed over into this one.

Maybe we should take a breath.

Reminds me of a story of There was these two men, they're in battle with each other all of their lives, rivals. And they just wanted to absolutely have each other's throats out. And they got older and older and older. And then one day this old man saw that his rival was coming up the hill and he was frail, he was unhealthy, he wasn't in the best of shape and he knew he couldn't do anything. Do you mean to stop him from what he was wanting to do? His rival comes up and he goes, finally I've got you. Like finally I'm going to be able to take you out. Finally this is absolutely. And I'm going to win. And then he realizes and he goes, no, you're not. And he wakes up. That's what all Neo's doing when he puts his hand up and says no, he's just waking up. And so you, me, anyone, when that arises in us and we feel that, oh no, actually I'm supposed to do this thing, but maybe I should cut my toenails. Do you know what I mean? No. Wake up. See the truth for what it is and then act accordingly. And I think this is what I call foolishness. When. When somebody does that, when I do that, when you do that, that is foolishness. Foolishness is knowing the right thing to do but not having the strength of character to follow through with it. It's not having the strength of character to actually do it. Which is why I continue to come back and I perceive that I want to continue to do the things that build and strengthen my character. And why I think that self esteem, why I think we're constantly judging ourselves and wanting to act accordingly, is because then I can show up and do what is right.

This is why the spiritual commodity narrative of do it feels good, brother. Move in your highest excitement. If it the universe gives you a challenge, just go towards the lighter way. I think it's all, I think it's part of the dark agenda. I mean, I laugh because it's funny, because I can see it for what it is, but so many millions of people don't see it for what it is. There are influencers and leaders out there that are teaching absolute bullshit. And all they're telling people is go with your highest excitement. You know, if you come across an obstacle, move towards something else. This phrase, Chris, good vibes only. I actually think the phrase good vibes only is one of the most harmful soul decaying. And it really robs people of having 120k with 12 hours a week or having their own dream. It robs people of that because if life was supposed to be good vibes only, then life would implode on itself. The snake can't eat its tail. The yin yang can't exist in a balance point.

He's unnatural.

It's unfucking natural. So this whole mentality of people that are like, I only hang out with positive people, which, there's a good thing to that. I only, I only let good vibes in my life. The spiritual bypassing that has become commodified in our world. It, it actually, it has me fired up, but not to the point where it causes me stress or anything. It's like it has me fired up because I see it for what it is. Like Neo in the hallway, like you talked about with the story of the man that woke up, like, so good. It's so good because it's who the fuck we are. We are doing it all. As Paul told me with the hand on my shoulder. Who's doing it anyways? Who's doing all of this anyways? God is experiencing God through you. God is experiencing God through me. So how can we give homage and like deep, like tear jerking respect to the fact that you've been afforded daughters and I've been afforded a son, another child. Like, it's heavy just to think about, like there's so much responsibility. And also with that responsibility, maybe in total real time on this podcast, I'm, I'm feeling, I'm learning, dude. Is that the, the way to have it all is to have joy in the responsibility to be response able and to train myself from that place of joy. Because what's the alternative? To have no responsibility and to have good vibes only. That's not a life fulfilled, that's not a life well lived. That's not the life I want to have. So that's actually my edge right now. I'm just like feeling it with you on, on the pod. Like maybe the deepest edge for me and for all of us that are struggling with the question of how do I have it all? Is how can I reframe my way of being so that I embrace the discomfort and all the shit that causes me to grow with joy? Because that's what God's giving me. God's giving me creators, giving me all these things and experiences and people to that squeeze the juice out of me so that when the squeeze is over, all that's left is just like, I love you, Chris. You know, I love you, Carrie Michelle, or I love you, Nova, or I love you, Lauren, your wife. Like, I think that's what we're working on here. I think that's what this, like, container here, this magical container has been today, at least so far. I'm curious what came up for you there.

I love that you share that. Thank you for sharing that. It's really cool. It's. So let's go back to the spiritual bypassing, because I find this very interesting. I had someone recently and they're like, what do you want to do in this next chapter of your life? And I go, I. What just rolled out of my tongue was I want to bridge success and spirituality together. I don't want them to be separate worlds. I see them as one. And that's what I want to bring together.

Yeah.

And so again, let's look at this paradox that you've brought up. We go, hey, on one side, I'm going to bleed through my forehead. I'm going to do absolutely everything that I need to do, which was me. Like, if we look at these archetypes, right, is I was in the warrior archetype. And I, I could warrior like no other warrior when it came to this stuff. Like, if you said, hey, dude, that's the direction you go to. I will run through walls and I'll, like, I literally said to mentors, like, just show me the way to do it. I'll run through walls and I'll make that happen to me. I'll go do it and I'll come back. What do I do next? Boom. And I'll go out and do it.

Again, yeah.

And the other flip side to that being, like, to mean good vibes only just do what feels good. Da, da, da. It's a case of there is truth, there is a partial truth, personal. And one of my mistakes, Josh, was I have not followed joy enough. Right. This was something I really had to reflect upon myself. Have I done it with joy? Because I also think joy, that the use of the word joy, that say. It's different from, like, say, happiness, right. Is joy is doing something that is true and is right.

But.

But have I. Have I had enough joy? I don't think I have, to be honest. I don't think I have. Do you know what I mean? And so that's where for me, I'm like, okay, cool. Like, I know I can bleed through the forehead. And also in the other case as well, to kind of bring it together, had a friend say this, and if you're working too hard, you're being a wizard. Oh, that's really good.

So good.

Because he had. He had, like, this.

So good.

Dane Thomas, God love him. He had these, like, levels of, like, consciousness of, like, say, like, professionally entrepreneurship and was like, employee manager, business owner, entrepreneur, investor, wizard. Right? And I was like, that's really cool. Because there is an essence in if you're working really hard towards something and you're just not getting there. This is the. This is the game. This is the dance that we have to play. Because at some point, you've got to push harder. You've got to go to the end. You've got to go past that breaking point.

Yes.

To be able to make that happen. And at other times. Dude, put it down. Change directions. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's just not the right thing for you to be able to go and do. And there is no. We live in a world where people are far too looking for prescriptions and checklists. Right. Give me the exact steps that I need to be able to do. Dude, a lot of the time I can't give you, like, yeah, there is. No one knows the exact answer. Like, when I was back in. I used to remember when I was back as a physique coach, I'd sit down with the consultation with someone. I'll be like, I want to. I want to step on stage. I want to be able to compete in this competition. I want to have this photo shoot. You mean? I had actors, I had Arab shakes as clients. I had all this stuff, and I'd sit down and be like, cool, okay, you want to achieve this thing Amazing. And then a really common question that would come back would be like, well, what like method or diet are you going to be using with me, Chris? Like what's, what's like you. Your like shtick almost. Right. And I was like, if I read you poetry and we went for windy walks on the beach, but you still got the result that you want, would you care? And they're like, no. Great. Because we're going to use any of the means necessary that is correct for you to get there. Right. I want to be agnostic to what it is that we're actually doing. I just want to be very focused on getting you to where it is that you want to be able to go to. And that's where I feel like that's wizardry. Yeah.

It's pulling from the bucket whenever you need to and doing it effortlessly.

Totally. And I think it's being able to let go of the predispositions and the things that you might be hanging on to. I'm loving this table, by the way. I'm just caressing this baby.

Thank you.

It is letting go of the stories, all the methods or the tools that you might have been looking like doing how people say, like if you're a hammer, everything you look at to nail sort of aspect, let's put the hammer down. Can we increase to mean what's in our quiver at the end of the day so that we're better aligned to be able to do what we need to do.

There's so much there. And exactly what you said, I guess that was relates to business. It also relates to relationship the exact same way. Because it's really what I felt from you in my own life and in all of our lives. Let's just speak to the men, like to the men with us. I'm sure women, you feel this too. But for men, for me, the hardest thing is switching capacity. So I have the capacity like you to like put my head down and just work and just not stop until I've gotten what I want. That's just part of me. But that doesn't work at home. I can't bring that home to carry or bring that home to my children and have it work out effectively. It's not going to work out swimmingly. So this, this awareness of switching capacity, the way that I and us men can go deep into the throes of like head down work aspect of self and then also have the awareness from an observation standpoint to know when to turn that off. Like you mentioned it, like, hey, you know, it's okay to just turn that off right now because you will essentially burn yourself out. And I think that's kind of what I've been going through, is this, like, essence of burnout, which is why I'm looking forward to these two months of just, like, being with the family. So this switching capacity and, and this switching capacity is only learned in my life through the extremes. I don't think it has to be that way. I don't think we have to learn switching capacity by burning out and then having tons of spaciousness. There's, there is this middle way, and I, and I find that it really comes down to me just listening to what my body's telling me. Every single time I, I, I blunt that or I work anyways, my body yells at me or something will come up. I'll get sick. Or like just this past week, actually, you know, we, we rescheduled our podcast because I got sick with the cedar fever here. So, like, that's where I'm at. And I wonder with four children, you know, I don't know what that's like. It's for anyone listening who's single, that doesn't even have children, this mindset applies to them because you've earned it by being able to give this wisdom by having a business and children. It's not like you're just some single guy floating around the earth. Like, you've, you've had to really earn that switching capacity. How do you do that? I'm just selfishly asking for me and.

All of us, it's a great question.

How do you do that switching.

Very salient example for me was so in our new home, my office is slightly off, but it's still at home, right? So I have this home office and I love being able to be there. But what's been really interesting for me is I'll be what I will name. I'll be in my masculine working. I mean, I'll be in my office doing the thing that I do. And there and then I might have to. I'll go get a drink. I'll do mean go to the bathroom or some of that. I'll walk back into the main home. And my wife Lauren, love other bits. She might just jump into this conversation and I'm like, here's what I need. Yeah. It's like, no, no, no, no, no. And I was like, it's. I literally had to say to her, I was like, look, between these hours and like, when I'm working, like, I know that I'm physically there. But mentally, I'm not there because I'm still back over here working through things, getting things done. Yeah, please don't pull me out of that. Because it's a hard shift to then go from that back to it as well. And so that's very much the case. And there is. You said use the word capacities there. And I think that it's almost like it. It's almost like different identities as well. Because when I'm in my work identity, you know, I mean, I'm. I'm very much a certain way. I'm very direct. I'm very to the point. Do I bring that to my four daughters? No, absolutely not. I put that down. Do you know what I mean? And I literally, like, want to take a breath and be able to. Okay, I'm. I'm shifting right now. I'm changing who it is and how I want to show up so that I can be the father that I want to be. And so for me, like, I work very kind of, like, specific hours.

Yeah.

I mean, so I want to like, hey, my work days between 8am to 12 midday, like, that's my work day. Do you know what I mean? And then usually what I do to kind of like separate my work day from me being a father and husband is I go and train. So I'll go work, then I go and train. I'll go get that stuff out, and then I come back, and I am literally going to be like, okay, now I am father. And so for me, it's like, when I finish training, I come back home, I do a meditation so I can become more parasympathetic. And then when I come back out, I'm like, I'm dad now.

Yeah.

This is who I am. Yeah. And so it's like making those shifts. And again, that would be a different shift. Is the person I am right now exactly who the father to four young daughters is? No, there is a difference there. Do you know what I mean? Like, I'm showing up in a different capacity to be able to best be who I need to be for this situation that I'm with as well.

I would say that. It's funny, I had a guest here who was sharing off camera. He's like, I got to get a studio, an office like yours. I'm like, yeah, that literally saves the polarity relationship. Or you can be mindful, like you, where you're like, hey, Lauren, between these hours, so that we're good and so I can come back to the family full. I need to be in work mindset for these hours. I love you, but these are my hours that can work too. But I would assume if you look at human evolution, that we didn't always work in the home. This is kind of a new thing that I get to make like all this money and connect with all these human beings on a laptop. Like, how grateful I am for that. Oh, my God, how grateful I am for that. And how different it is from our human evolution and biology to, to express itself in that way. You know, back in the day, and I heard Tim Ferriss say this when I very first started podcasting, I'm having all kinds of good nuggets come in. Yeah, when I very first started podcasting, I remember Tim Ferriss said, you know, money is the spear. Because in the back, in the back of the day, you and I would be in a tribe together. We weren't judged on how many deals we closed. We were judged on what food we, we brought back for our women and children. But, but it's not like that anymore. I mean, I like firearms. I like to know how to, how to move my body. I like to know how to defend myself. But, but those skills in our modern world, in our digital world have become so much less important. And what is important is a money mindset and a money making mindset and a self regulation mindset of emotions in order to bring in that revenue. So he said something really powerful. He's like, you know, in the new world, money is the spear. Because if you want to kill and drag food back, you have to do it not with a spear, you have to do it with money. And I think that's so wise because it's really like, there's a lot of people I know that are super fit, super healthy, but they're absolutely broke. And they're, they're writing to me like, I'm a, I'm a massage therapist. I'm a, I'm a trainer. And it's like every week somebody will drop in, like, how do I do what you do? Or how do I launch a podcast? Or how do I do this and that? And I always tell them, like, are you willing to spread the energy and the awareness that you put so heavily on your body or so much on one thing? And are you willing to look at these other parts of yourself that are really screaming for maturation? They're screaming for an awakening. I wonder if you have seen that too, you know, with clients or maybe even in your own life, like the balancing of the Pentagon.

I made a very clear decision a while ago where I. I did not want to make compromises. And that's what I think you're talking to, is people are making compromises. I will earn money, but I'll get out of shape. Do you mean I will achieve X, but I'll have a crappy relationship with family? I will do what? I mean, there's always this compromise of this. And when we come back to, like, the start of our discussion today was how to have it all, well, that can only happen when you start letting go of these compromises as well. And I think there's so much of this cultural narrative of these compromises. Okay? And I was like, no, because I want to be in great shape. I want to earn great money. I want to have loving relationships. Do you know what I mean? I want to do incredible work that I love. Like, why can't I? Like, who's saying that I can't? And when I actually started to answer, well, no one's saying that I can't to me saying that I can't at the end of the day. And I just need to be able to change what that narrative is.

See, but when you say you, this is really good. When you say you, you just mean the parts of you that believed a story that was modeled or told to you. It's not really you.

Well, what is me at the end of the day, anyway?

Well, that's a whole other pod. That's a whole nother podcast. But, but, but, yes, because all the ways that we get. I've really been going deep into this, this concept of, of emotional epigenetics. Like, you know, in our families, when somebody's born, they could be born with, like, a proclivity towards weight gain or type 1 diabetes, or everybody knows that, that physical manifestations through lineage, like, oh, it's epigenetics or it's genetics. That's why so and so is born that way. We all accept that as total truth. I find it utterly fascinating, and I'm really passionate about changing the narrative on this. If physical manifestations can be passed on through lineage, how could anyone. Anyone who, who understands that the body and mind are one. How could anyone say that emotional epigenetics aren't passed on the same way? It's kind of like that mindset where people would say, oh, we're the Smiths, we're alcoholics, oh, we're the du, we're whatever. Fill in the blank. We're the trends, we're this way. It's actually just a story. And I'm not making light of everyone's situation. Sometimes trauma runs real deep, so I want to be sensitive to that. But at the same time, whether it's capital T or lowercase t, it really is just a story at the end of the day. It's a story that I'm telling myself about why I can't do something. And that has nothing to do with the highest self. Like, the purest self of me. There's like. You know, you mentioned the snake. You said, I still feel like I'm letting go of a snake. Earlier in our hangout, I think we're all doing that at all times. Look at Osho in the later stage of his life. Did you ever see Wild, Wild Country?

I only saw a little bit.

Holy shit. That is, like, the craziest documentary. He was not as woke as people thought he was. Like, he really went into a darker expression of spirituality at the end of his life. And so I feel like we're all figuring it out. We're all learning as we go along the way. And really, like anybody that says, this is why I connect with you, they have it mastered. They don't have it mastered.

No one has it figured out.

No one.

And isn't that relating supposed to be. Exactly.

Because you take the pressure off now. You don't have to have it all figured out. Come on.

Everyone should have a nice big breath in and out. Try and drop the shoulders down from their earlobes, because, yeah, no one does. And that's perfectly fine. Like, we're all walking each other home. Right? Like, we're all figuring this stuff out. And I genuinely, genuinely believe and want to continue to believe that everyone's generally doing their best as well.

Yeah.

I mean, like, everyone's generally doing their absolute best. And I want to accept them for where they are, for what's going on. Because I know I've screwed up plenty of times, but at the time, I was really trying to do my best.

Sure.

Do you know what I mean? But it just didn't get it done for what that person's expectation was also. And that's where I just want to be able to have, like, a little bit more of a. It's okay. It's okay. You're doing okay. And just being. Having a little bit more of a Surrendering to what's going on there.

It's like, we need to open up this cosmic book, grab a gold pen, and write ourselves a lifetime permission slip and just like, toss a permission slip to you so that your best. 5 years ago Infinite screw ups allowed.

There you go.

Yeah, like your best five years ago. Here's a permission slip for you to never allow yourself to go into a shame spiral of who you think you were in the past. Here's a permission slip that I have written from my highest self that I will look at every day, like, put it in the bathroom. I will never allow myself to go into a shame spiral or a judgment of myself in the past. And if I do, I clearly know that's where my work is. That's what's blocking me from the 120k, the 75k, whatever it is. People talk about money, mindset. People talk about how to be truly successful and have it all, which is really like the belly of our conversation. Like, how do we have it all? I think we have it all by forgiving ourselves. There's no way I could have ever achieved anything, nor will what I achieve in the future if I'm not on a consistent, consistent trail of apologizing to people, apologizing to myself, taking ownership of like, how I came in, like pigheaded or like a bull in a china shop or, you know, whatever it is, like, whoever it's for. I just. Yesterday I just. After a year, there was a skirmish in a men's group and we finally came together and I was just like, hey, we don't even have to go into what happened. I just want you to know I. Thank you for the lessons. Thank you for the lessons. I could have shown up a different way. He said essentially the same thing. It was fucking beautiful. But, but if I had allowed pride in that moment to take over and be like, well, we need to talk about what happened. If I would have stuck in the past, allowed myself to stick in the past, it actually robs me, it completely robs me of any kind of connection or success in the future.

Well, especially in an argument. One of the best ways to move forward in an argument and kind of like just get on with it is to talk in future tense. Don't, don't talk in past tense. I mean, that is not going to move it forward. Talk in future tense as well.

How so? What do you mean?

Well, like, let's say we're having an argument about something like that. Oh, well, you did this wrong. Do you mean? And I could be like, well, you did this wrong and this is what you were doing before and you shouldn't have done that. The right thing to do is moving forward. Let's do this together. Would you agree that if you and I did this Together, that would be a fantastic thing. Great, let's do that. Done.

That's so good.

Future tense.

And then there doesn't have to be this like bunny hopping of. You said this. I remember Stan Tatkin. We had. I don't know if you know Stan Tatkin's work. Wired for Love. No. Wow. This is why I love podcasting because I get these little nuggets that stick to my spine and that and I never forget them. He was in this TED Talk and he said anytime that partners get into a struggling match or a wrestling match about he said, she said, or you did this, you did that. You've already lost. You've already lost. Because the human memory essentially isn't accurate. It's only dependent upon the projections of the unhealed trauma inside of me that I make the past work out for a way that my ego isn't something.

Like 50% of our memories. Wrong.

I, I would agree.

As soon as I said that, I just thought 60% of the time. It works every time.

Those are good odds, dude. I have so enjoyed our time together and you know, it's cool because both of our audiences are experiencing us in such a. This has been the most. I put, I closed my computer, like no notes. We were just jamming, you know, as, as brothers, as fathers, as creators. What do you think we missed when. When you come across this concept of like living life connected to your body. Living life and having it all.

Well, I think when it. I was just thinking before about like the concept of like having it all one. I believe I speak for myself. I then want to be able to think. Well then let's break that down. What is the having? Right, Because I lean towards a belief like whatever has the nature to arise will also pass away. So great. I have all of these things, but I should not have my happiness, my fulfillment, my eudaimonia predicated on me having these things because it will pass away. Hey Chris, you're in great shape. Great. I'm going to die one day. I'm going to get out of shape. I'm going to become older, I'm going to become more fragile. Do you mean like it will go in one shape or form? So if I have my identity built on, oh dude, I've got a six pack gen. I mean year round. Well then I'm only setting myself up for failure. If you're only setting yourself up in like, oh God, I got a 75 grand a year. I just want 75 grand a year. 75 grand a year. I'm going to have it all. Good, great. You could even achieve it. But is it actually going to give you ultimately what it is that you're looking for? No, it's not. And that's why as well, like when we went into that whole like business riff, a part of like one thing that I want to help others see is like growth for the sake of growth is cancerous. Right? So in a business context, it's just like, oh, I just want to have a bigger business. Have a bigger business. Like, why do you know? I mean, like, what are you looking for? What Ultimately we're looking to have a feeling at the end of the day. And why do we want to have that feeling? Where does that feeling come from? Can you not have that feeling right now? If you want to feel safety, right? You want to, you want to have money because you're wanting to feel safe and secure. Do you need that money to feel safe and secure? Is that money actually going to give you the true safety and security that you really looking for? I argue probably not. Does it help? Yeah, 100%. Do you mean? And this is the other side of the case that I definitely want to argue for. And that's a case of if I give myself the resources, the monetary ability to now be able to set myself up to best serve others. Incredible. Because that's what I want. I believe we're here because we're here to help and serve others. Right? It's like the poly word mudita, sympathetic joy. It's the joy I get when I see the joy in somebody else. That's, that's the feels I want to get. Like, that's the. Oh shit, that's really good. Do you know what I mean? I want to see you enjoy because it helps me be enjoy as well. Like let's, let's create more of that as well. And I feel like when we kind of like let go of these stories, because it's all a story at the end of the day as well. When we let go of those stories and we start coming back to the root and questioning wise, doing, questioning why am I doing certain things and how things are actually operating. It's like the, I've seen this the other day. It's like the analogy is like I'm seeing life through the stories. I'm saying through the lens in which I'm seeing the world. Now firstly, I need to be able to take the lens off. I need to see this subject object relationship between me and the lens. Because then I go, oh, I'VE been looking at life through this thing. Do you mean this has been changing or discoloring or just misperceiving the way that I need to be able to look at the world? So maybe do I need to clean my lens? Maybe do I need to change my lens? Maybe I'd keep my lens off for what it is. And then that's why I also believe when it comes into it, like, do you mean like psychedelic experiences? For one example is it gives us a multi, multi perspectival view of what's going on. And through that multi perspectival view, we have insight from insight. Then we can start to actually make changes and get out of the kind of grooves that we were running through before.

Very good. Just don't go so deep into the psychedelics that you forget to integrate here in 3D. Well, you can be like, look at how cool this lens is. And you could just go off and you never actually bring the lessons back.

You know, that's very true. Because my last ayahuasca experience, real interesting, it was a private session with this gentleman and had the first cup. Started to feel it. Come on. I was like, okay, here we go. To me, like, I've. We've never really talked psychedelics together publicly and stuff like that. I'm more than happy to as well, open up the worm. So. And then I was like, okay, I could feel this. I was like, ah, okay, here comes a mother. I've been here before. Great. Surrender, Surrender. Letting go. Do you mean just, like, letting be what is. And I had the second cup and it like, I went stone cold sober. Like, I was just like. I was like, oh, okay, this is interesting. I was just like, looking at the stars, being like, no, I'm. I'm not in it anymore at all. Like this. I'm sober again. He's like, you want a third cup? So give me a third cup. Like. And then it went slightly back in. And then as I was laying there and going through this, because I was like, oh. Like, is it the expectations that I'm putting upon myself? I was like, okay, let that go. I was letting each of these stories as they bubble up. I was letting the stories let go. And then it was interesting because then this just real subtle message came through. You're all good. You're all good. I was like, oh, oh, that's the message.

That's a dream journey right there.

Yeah, well, yeah, I've. The previous ayahuasca journey, which was, sure, maybe.

Maybe you go, maybe you earned the dream journey.

That was who. That was quite literally what I would. I have experienced the most harrowing journey that I've ever been through.

Like, a true ego death.

Oh, it sure tore me apart.

Sure. Did you. Did you die?

Well, something died. Something died. I was happy to let go of the world as well in that experience. And I definitely came back a different person. So I would say something died. Yeah.

Yeah.

But again, through five MEO journeys. Do you know what I mean? There's been the experience of just like, oh, blissness, like, so many of the times for about. I don't think I publicly shared this for about two years. I was doing a weekly float tank with about a gram or two of mushrooms with a dispenser, meditation, really cool trinity, combining those three things together. And for me, it was kind of just like this cleansing and kind of like coming back into a better state. And it was just very interesting having those experiences and each time. But there were some experiences where I had, like, intense claustrophobia in the flow tank. Like, I floated. Freaked the F out, right. And then it took me a couple weeks to actually get back into the float tank because I was just, like, so shook up from it as well. But then it just got better and better and better. And so it's been interesting because even. Even recently, I've been to mean experimenting with THC and ketamine together and being able, like, well, where does this take me? As well? But also very much wanting to be cognizant of why am I doing this? And not being this peak state chaser.

Good.

And wanting to be like, why am I wanting to do this? Is it for betterment? Why am I wanting betterment? Is this the best way to have betterment? You know, like, I don't believe that I'm in the I need to heal trauma state. So is there the I'm increasing consciousness capabilities learnings to be able to then integrate back into the world? Because when people say, oh, I'm doing the work, and they're taking the psychedelics, dude, for me, the psychedelics is not the work. Right. The work is coming out and being able to integrate it. To be able to become a better person. Absolutely. To be able to learn those lessons, to move forward.

I have. I know people not going to name names. I know people that have done over a hundred ceremonies. A hundred. A hundred ayahuasca ceremony. And I'm like, you think you're gonna find new wisdom at 101? Like, do you think that somehow going to one more ceremony is Gonna bring you more wisdom. And I don't say that from like a shaking my finger shaming standpoint, but truly, like check within yourself. Do you think that at Ceremony 101 that something new is all of a sudden going to come in? Or do you think that maybe, just maybe that the way that you've been living your life after the ceremonies is actually the ceremony that you've been avoiding?

Yeah, that.

That to me feels like from my own earned wisdom is really it. Now what you're talking about is really cool because, you know, I'm not anti psychedelics and I'm really not even with my soul loss and my psychic break that thank God I was able to heal and like repair. And now I see it for what it was and it was so beautiful and like, I'm so grateful for the pain of it because honestly, I just kind of needed that pain to wake up.

Just like interject. Don't lose your point.

Go.

I just think this is really interesting how we fabricate a story looking back on something and say, oh, that's a really good thing because there's been studies shown that like, we will go through these harrowing experiences of like, someone will be in prison, someone will lose a leg and then, oh, that was the best thing that ever happened to me. Do you know what I mean? I just find that very interesting how we do that somewhere in our minds to be able to like kind of fabricate that story also.

Well, I think it's because if we're in a holographic reality and perception is projection and it's all about stories that we've talked about so much on this pod, then what's the alternative? Yeah, what's the alternative if we don't do that? Now, I'm not saying that we need to bypass either if some, if, if a father is sexually abusive to a dog daughter, or if somebody is in a relationship and they're getting physically harmed, there's obviously trauma there and that needs to be taken stock of.

If someone's hurting one of my daughters, I will tear your skin off.

Exactly.

So.

So with that said though, like, that's not a story, that's actually reality now after the fact in the repair, then we can fabricate a story, but we only fabricate that story, I think, because that's what love does. Love wouldn't hold on to resentment because, you know, we've heard the, the passage of like, you know, resentment is the hot coal that one holds and in the end you're the only one that gets burned it's like, well, there's some truth in all this ancient wisdom, because if. Unless we fabricate a story from love. Like, for example, I had a buddy of mine and his wife died in labor. His wife died in labor, yes. And he. Dr. Maticoso, and there was a huge People magazine story about him. And you know what he came back to public with after like a year or two. He said, I know that I was chosen for this because it's the only way that I could really understand the grace of God.

Wow.

And I'm just like. I mean, it's just like I can feel it right now, like the strength of that. And. And maybe not a day goes by where he doesn't feel the pain of that either. I don't think that. I don't think that we ever totally heal, dude. Like, even when you said, oh, I don't. I don't really go into psychedelics because I need any trauma release or trauma healing. I'm like, there's definitely some.

That's why I keep coming back to it is right.

Okay.

That's what I'm saying.

So.

Okay, so I'm still having this pool. I'm. I'm wanting to have as much such conscious, integral, mature aspect into coming into it. Because every single time I go into any sort of plant medicine.

Yeah.

I'm. There is this nervousness there because I want to have that respect for what it is. And I want to be like, okay, like, she could go haywire.

Yeah.

I mean, I want to be able to best have the respect for what I'm about to do and go into. But I'm still there. Do you know what I mean? Like, and for sure. And I love that you point that out because I've thought about that and I was like, well, geez. I'm like, I'm not. I'm not doing it for shits and giggles. Like, yeah, that's not the case.

Dude, this is so good. Before we say goodbye, we gotta cover this one last thing that what you were talking about. I learned this back in the day from a guy named Dan Party. He taught me about heuristics, which is shortcuts in the brain. I think that we do it because unless we are truly like Buddha or. Or Nirvana, enlightenment state, I don't think we could hold the pain and the grief and the darkness of why so much evil transpires in the world. I don't think we could hold it. So I think we have to, as a survival mechanism to the meat suit to the body. We have to create these heuristics that fabricate a meaning of love for the story. Because subjectively, if we didn't do that, I think it would kill us. Like, if Matt didn't reframe what happened for him, it would have fucking killed him. That's what drives people to addiction. Love comes in, and love is like the hand of God that, like, holds you and says, I know all of these terrible things have happened, but you've got to trust in the mystery. Because this is your dharma here on Earth was to have this happen for your growth. And there is so much humility there. Holy shit. There is so much there. And I don't know that. That things happen to souls that can't handle it. Because God never gives anyone anything that they cannot handle. And I believe that. I know we've heard that in books. I actually believe that God wouldn't give anybody anything that one couldn't handle. And if they can't handle it, they come back in another lifetime and they learn how to handle it.

So when I was. When I was 19, I was a. I have one brother, and I'm 25 years older than him.

Whoa.

Yeah. When I was 19, my mother was pregnant. My mother and father were still together. As I said, they were 17 when they had me. And when I was 19, my mother was pregnant and she had a stillbirth. And I remember so clearly, I got a phone call. It was the morning I was getting ready to go for work. I was. I was a barman. And then. I was also then studying to become a personal trainer. And I got a phone call with my dad, and he was just crying. And I could barely understand the words that were coming out of his mouth. Anyway, I finally pieced it together and understood that my mother had a stillbirth and come to the hospital. And I was about half an hour away. And so, like, I literally dropped to my knees. I was like, whoa. And I went to the hospital and saw my parents and was able to be there and console and grieve together. And then they're like, do you want to see your sister? And I was like, yeah, I want to see my sister. And she was less than the length of the palm of my hand, so the length of it. And I held her for so long, her body was actually warm when I'd, like, had to give her back. And I remember, like, the hands being so small that they would just. Her hand would just wrap over the tip of my finger. Like, I was just holding it and being able to, like, that was the first real connection with death that I had had. And being able to hold my sister in my hand like that and see this. This essence and this being and just this. This magical. Oh, my goodness. Of learning so much in that experience, and it is just burnt into me, etched. And being able to take that experience and then being able to be like. Because I remember my dad saying, you know what? I'm glad that happened because it's brought our family closer together. And that's the case because we. I think crafting a story that comes from love is a hell of a lot better than crafting a story that comes from something else that's lower down. Doing the energy poll. And so me being able to look back into that experience and be like, you know what? Like, I have this tattoo of Sophia and being able to have that experience with my sister and having a connection and having that. For me, what I very much took from it as well was the fragility of life and how it could be snatched from us at any moment as well. And wanting to keep the closeness of death with us so that I can then best show up into this world like I do the last time. Meditation, when I put my doors, like, when I had to say goodbye to my daughters coming on this trip, I said to myself, this could be the last time that I see them. This could be the last time I kiss them good night. This could be the last time that I ever hold them. This could be the last time that I hear their voices say, bye, Daddy. Right? Tears me apart. Because there is that fragility to what it is that we do, and I feel like that gives us the power to then best show up. You know what I mean? Like, that is, like, the. The realness of what it is that we're doing today so that we can actually do something of value. Because I could be gone this afternoon, Josh. Do you know what I mean? I give you a hug goodbye. I leave this studio, I get in a car crash. It was actually last time I was here in Austin, I got in a car crash after the. I was in the Uber after a podcast interview to do it. Something drastic could happen. And I want to make sure that when I do, I admire myself for how I showed up. Yeah.

Yeah. Oh, so appreciate you sharing, man. What a universal, emotional ride that we went on today. You know, all these concepts of, like, what are we doing here? What's the meaning of all this? And how do we have it all? I think we have it all by just letting it pour out of Ourselves, like you and I have done, and being open to the mind, being something that we can just consciously choose to get down to the subconscious stuff and bring out for full light, bring out the dark and the subconscious for what actually doesn't serve. Not in an intellectual way, not in just like, oh, well, this is the way that I heal my subconscious, by doing and being what you just were. That's how we heal. That's how we grow. That's how we. That's how we have it all, honestly, is by knowing that we're not going to be here in a hundred years. I mean, unless there's some crazy biohacking breakthroughs, you know, maybe, but most likely we won't be. And so, you know, maybe just the solace that we have is like, anytime that I get into a rut or angry or judgmental or resenting is, like, to come back to this conversation with you and just feel the truth of who we are. Because the truth of who we are is joy. And of course, that joy is sometimes earned through pain. I'm not saying 100% of the time we're joy, but, you know, the true essence of who we are is joy, is love. And I've definitely felt that with you in this podcast, man, what an absolute gift it was for us to come together. You know, it's fitting that it was on a Sunday, on a Sabbath, too. It's pretty cool. I just want to say that, like, to everyone that's been growing with me and along for this journey, and Sage is going to have this up on the screen right now. So there is the physical, there is the mental, the emotional, the spiritual, and financial. This is the Pentagon that really nourishes all of us. And one thing that I want to acknowledge and respect about you is you really address all of those. You know, your ability to do psychedelics, to go into the mindset, to express your emotions about your sister and holding her, and your ability to cut with a razor in business and explore your connection with God and take care of your physical vessel, like, that's living life well. So I just want to acknowledge that about you. Like, what a great model you set. Not in a cocky, facetious way, but truly what a great model that you're setting for your daughters. You're going to be very picky about whatever man they choose. I know it. But they'll probably select a great man just because they've had that embodied by their father.

Well, firstly, thank you for the kind words, Josh. And I truly believe that you're Only seeing and saying that because that's. I'm just a mirror for you, dude. I mean, you, you are a beautiful human being and I've loved from when we first connected to every single time that we have some messages come back and forth and when we get back together and it's always such a delight for me. So thank you because you are an impeccable human being doing amazing things and everyone that's been along the journey and tunes into like, they are better people because of you and thanks to you. So kudos on that one and yeah, what an interesting ride that we're on, dude. It's. It really is amazing because this is like you said before and a thought came up and it was like, yeah, we could live for 100 years, right? We could live maybe 200 years. But you know what? We're going to be forgotten in the not too distant future. Yeah. Completely forgotten. No one will ever think about or utter the words Christopher Dufay. Do you know what I mean? It'll just be like, done. And that's great. That is great because it's the finite nightness of what we have here and it's also the cosmic joke of what actually happens as well. So why not have Gene? I mean, a meaningful experience.

Why not? Maybe that's the whole answer. Why not?

Why not?

I saw this meme once and it was a guy on a bus. One side, he was facing a hill and it said there's Life is meaningless, there's no point to it all. On the other side, the guy was looking at the sun. Life is meaningless, there's no point to it all. One guy was smiling, one guy was frowning. I think it's really just where we look.

Yeah.

So I know that people are smiling from this conversation, dude, let them know where they can link up with you and connect with you online.

Well, for me, everything's. The best place to go is the Christopher Dufay podcast. There is the YouTube channel as well. And you can send me a DM on Instagram or something like that or whatever. Do you know what I mean? Always appreciate from hearing from everyone, but these are the conversations that I want to share. And especially for me, what I came to was what I want to be sharing on the podcast and through the YouTube is really me figuring out my own stuff. Because I've had lots of people say to me, wow, like, ran, you, you do have it all. You've really figured this stuff out. And I'm like, I don't know. I think I've done Good. I've also cocked up plenty of times as well. I'm just still trying to figure this out. We're all doing it. We're all walking each other home right now. And if I can kind of like, lay something down for someone else to pick up, amazing, that would be incredible as well. But I want to know, for anyone that's listening, that does not right now, subscribe, follow, and just soak up the goodness of what Josh Trent is. Okay, how do they get more of that?

Let's go to JoshTrent.com forward/podcast, because that's where you can subscribe to the Wellness and Wisdom podcast and just shout out to my team, too, like Lauren and Sage and Mar and Steve and just everybody that makes this happen. You know, it's so awesome to be in real communion with people that care about something, that care about a new narrative in this world, man. So, yeah, everybody can go there. And also, just like, a good starting place for people would be to go to joshtrent.com m21. So it's like a distillation of 600 episodes into, like, six practices. You know, one of them being breathing. And it's for free. It's all laid out. It's a perfect place to just reset yourself so people can go to joshtrend.com forward/m21, which is morning 21. Dude, I think we nailed it. I think we're gonna go out in the sun.

Yeah.

So y' all do the same thing.

Okay.

Until Chris and I see you again, we're both wishing you love and wellness. We'll talk to you soon. Hey, thanks for watching this video. If you love this video, hit subscribe. That way you'll be automatically notified when new videos come out, new episodes, and also share this video with a friend. If you loved it, they're going to love it, too. Check out some of the videos on this screen that are perfectly curated based on the video you just saw. Make sure you follow me and I'll see you in the next video.