World-Renowned Biochemist: Biohacking Saved Me From Death! How to Heal Mental + Physical Health

I was ready to commit suicide, either intentionally or hoping that it would happen indirectly because I was sick all the time I was going to die. I got so good at all the biohacking because I was just trying to keep my body alive from all the crap I was doing to it.

Sean Wells is a world renowned biochemist, mental health advocate, and the most trusted voice in supplements. What are the core fundamentals before you even introduce supplementation? What are you doing when somebody is having a hard time, when somebody is going through massive health complications?

We keep going down this path of like, medicate, medicate, medicate, medicate. And it's such an easy answer. And it's like the devil is right there saying, just one more pill. It's just a pill, bro. There's a lot more that's possible. When you're not in a state of overwhelm, decrease the stress and then increase the size of the stress bucket, the allostatic capacity, and that's done through hormesis.

How does paraxanthine help with capacity of stress?

It's increasing the nitric oxide to the brain, increasing your glutathione catalase, decreasing oxidative stress, increasing serotonin, acetylcholine, dopamine, dopamine for hours. All the ways that your brain could be younger. It's doing. This is the caffeine 2.0. It's going to change the way society thinks, feels and acts.

Hey, it's Josh and can you do me a quick favor? Subscribe to the channel. It helps us, it helps you, and it helps bring this message to the algorithms so it can be served to more people that need it the most. So please click subscribe. It would mean the world to myself and my team now. Enjoy the podcast. Sean, congratulations.

Thank you very much. What are you congratulating me for? You're here.

Well, can we talk about this on the pod?

We can.

You just proposed to Hannah, a lovely woman, and you have a bonus daughter. How's that feel? You've got to be feeling on top of cloud 17. Forget about nine.

I love that. Yes, I'm definitely more clouds above. Hannah has been a beautiful godsend. Something that I feel that I manifested from having a difficult marriage prior where I was just not mature enough. And I don't. I can't speak for her entirely, but maybe she was not either. And the way that we were connecting was dysfunctional. Just thinking through this right now, because that's still raw and something I'm dealing with a lot, but putting myself in a place When I did the inner work at the start of the quote unquote pandemic and you know, black lives matter and a lot of upheaval and a lot of people started going inwards, I started going inwards. I started doing and, and theogens and working with people like Todd Cole Witty that are here in the Austin area and started reflecting on getting back to my inner child. Getting back to, instead of doing inner work, inner play, did I protect that inner child enough? And maybe that's why I was showing up the ways that I was showing up because I was a hurt little boy. And to be honest, I didn't have the capacity to love my ex wife because I did not love myself. And I think we both took care of each other in the ways we knew how. And a lot of times it was dysfunctional, but a lot of times it was just friends, but it was very platonic. And so I never knew a love, a deeper love for self and I never knew what a loving partner was like. And again, no, no discredit to my former wife, but to call that in. And it was after about a year of getting on dating sites, after I gotten divorced and, and doing all these different dating sites and going out on these dates and then I got hurt and I was starting to feel like not only like I was getting used, but I was using others. Like, like where you get good at like not responding to other people, like ghosting people, you know that energy like when people, when people write, oh hey, you look so cute, you look so nice and you're like gone. Or I already went out on a date with you and someone else is now interested in me. And you don't, you don't say, hey, thank you for your interest, I appreciate you, but I'm now interested in someone else. Everyone does this ghosting thing on there and I started to become ashamed of like connecting to that energy.

It's a pseudo connection anyways. It's a fake connection.

And I had gotten deeply hurt from a girl that I was dating on there a couple months and I just decided to stop dating and focus on work. I had realized that I was spending 20 plus hours a week on looking at the profile, responding to the DMS or whatever, responding to the texts, calling people back, going out on the dates. It was on average about 20 hours a week. And I was like, this is a lot of time.

It's like a part time job.

It's a part time job. Yeah, yeah. And I was like, and I'm just getting hurt and I'm just getting jaded. I need to get out of this. I'm not saying it's not possible to find. I'm sure a lot of people have had successful situations there. But when I had just given up and I said, I'm gonna just focus on myself. I'm gonna, like, you know, focus on work, that's when Hannah dropped into my life. And what was beautiful about it was that we spent about a month just talking as friends, back and forth. We hadn't met yet, and at some points, it was like two or three hours a day worth of communication. So I was back up to my 20 hours. But it was amazing just falling into a deep friendship. And I think that's where my heart was at the moment. Like, I couldn't trust trying to have a girlfriend at the moment. Like, I wanted to just have a friend that I could trust. And she was and is cerebral and shares a lot of the same values as me. And so we kept deepening this friendship. And then one day it clicked that this could be a whole lot more as like, that should be the foundation of a great relationship. And while that sounds obvious, that's not the way most people are going about it. Sure. And so I stumbled into doing it correctly. And I lived in Dallas, she was here in Austin. And so we had to be very intentional for the last two years in terms of speaking every day. She works with me. So we learned how to separate out the work as well as our intimacy in those conversations. So everything is very intentional of when we spend time, how we connect the conversations we have. And because we both have a prior marriage, I think there's a lot of learnings we've both had and coming into it and saying, like, there's a lot of things that I did wrong. And she would say there's things that she could have improved in the prior marriage. But now we're bringing that those learnings into this, and we're having a lot of conversations every day to prevent disdain, to prevent distrust, to prevent disconnection. And that's something that I'm proud of is. Is the deep intentionality that we have. And as a result, the powerful connection we have.

I could feel the realness. There's realness because how you started it was the foundation of friendship. I don't think most. We didn't do that. Carrie, Michelle and I, I was, like, so attracted to her. I tried to be her friend up front. We lived in different areas. She was in Sedona. I was in Encinitas at the time. So we would, like, drive, but then there was just this overwhelming feeling like, this is the mother of my children. I mean, it's kind of wild that I'm saying that, but not really, because it feels so real, and it felt just as real then as it does now. But we happen to have two children, and the abundance that's come from just following this intention like you talked about. The intention is everything. Like, I love how we're starting this conversation because the intention of how you date, the intention of how you eat, the intention of how you breathe, how you sleep, how you open your heart, how you do your inner work, like, the intentionality of everything is the most important thing. It's like, whether it's a ceremony or not, the intention you bring to life, to ceremony, to food, to health, is everything. Without that, what do we have? We have nothing to actually stand on. I find it so crazy and fascinating that on ig, which a lot of people are maybe watching our clips on and consuming the content, Like, I don't want people to just eat and consume the content. I want to give people really beautiful, digestible moments like you just shared with us that'll actually give them guidance as to how they can behave differently from a better place of intention, a better place of love. That's the conversation worth having, man. So thank you for starting us off that way.

That's so beautiful. I love that you. I want to take a moment and honor you. It's making me emotional. Like, I knew you when I was going through some of the. The darker times and we had conversations and I had the passion, and I was starting to make these changes, I was starting to just do my work when I was speaking to you, and I was going through a lot of the pain, a lot of the passion, a lot of the pivot in my evolution into Sean 2.0. And you're someone that I have witnessed and really have held up as an inspiration to me. The way that you conduct yourself, the way that you are empathic, but also you're not to be messed with. Also, you hold your boundaries, the way that you're spiritual and kind and connected, but also you're going to take care of your family. That's really, like, a high inspiration to me. And I love the way you're making impact.

Thank you, man. Yeah, you make me cry in the podcast. First 10 minutes. Thank you, bro. It feels good to receive that. Yeah. I have a high respect for you because, you know, I first learned about you through our mutual friends, and I was like, who's this guy that makes incredible formulas. And why is he the world's greatest formulator? What is this all about? But then when I peel back the layers of Sean, there's an ocean of depth. And I think if people can feel that ocean, which, ah, yeah, they already felt it and they'll feel it throughout the conversation. There's the intentionality that you have to truly be of service, which is an overstated phrase in our world. I guess you could call our world personal development, wellness, maybe even biohacking, self improvement. But the way in which you have in the past three, four years, really shared everything publicly, this being one of them. Yeah, dude, it just makes people respect you even more. Like you're truly. You're truly a leader that is holding up a lantern. And I've. I'm wearing a shirt today that says this. Leaders hold lanterns. You shine the light on yourself and then you shine the light on others. You're not just sitting behind a wall, shining a flashlight on people, hiding the parts of yourself that want to stay dark. You're actually in the mix. You're doing the work, you're doing ceremonies. You're honest about your creations, you're honest about your personal life. And man, in the science world, specifically in the academic world, in. In your world of formulations, that is just not the case. Most scientists wear a cape that's white and they float from all this adulation from their peers, and they don't actually stop and pause to share their life and share their journey. It's obviously a big point of why you are you. You share your journey, man. Where does that come from? Like this is. Is this new for you to share your personal life and your success with formulations and supplementation? Or did this come online when we started chatting three, four years ago?

No, it's. It's been online for a while. Like, you know, a lot of people that have read my book, and I'm looking over to your bookcase there, it has the energy formula. I remember reading one review on Amazon that said, no one's been through all this stuff. And I was like, man, I didn't even share all of it.

Like.

No, I try. And I come from a place of vulnerability because I feel like that's where trust is established. It's like, you know, would you rather learn how to get your six pack from a guy who's always had a six pack? Or would you rather learn from someone who has gone through the hero's journey, that has suffered mentally, physically, that had a, you know, significant gut and Then they work their way to it. Yeah, I want to talk to the second guy. Yeah. And I felt like in biohacking and mindset, in supplementation and keto, which I used to talk a lot about, there was all these guys out there that were authoritative, but none of them were vulnerable. None of them were telling the dark side. None of them were telling their real personal story and where they've fallen short. And when I've been in these journeys, as well as different masterminds that I've been in, I've been surrounded by people that are very, very wealthy, accomplished, and unbelievably hurt and have raw pain and a lot of suffering. People that are friends of mine, that are even up through billionaires, hurt, sad. And they don't tell that story and they suffer alone. And then what's really tough is the more you kind of rise through the ranks of wealth or accomplishment, the more alone you feel because the more people that want to use you, take from you. You know, if you have employees underneath you, you can't be best friends necessarily. Like, has to be an employer relationship. There has to be some kind of separation. And so you just feel isolated. And it's why, like, I don't, you know, envy the Elon Musk's or whoever of the world. Do you know how many times he's been used and burned and manipulated? That's tough. It's tough. And so I, I've learned that vulnerability is just a big part of who I am and how I can make impact. And I feel like I've come strongly to terms with connecting with my feminine as well as my masculine side. Like in, like, I really feel like the idea, like it's been overused and weaponized, but the idea of like toxic masculinity is a masculinity that has no ide. How to be in touch with femininity. That's the, that's the concept. If, if, if we were to, you know, bring some, some reality or light to it. But if you can be in touch with the power of the feminine, the yin and yang, it's going to bring out your true strength as the lion, as the masculine, the powerful masculine, the king.

We were trained differently, though. I grew up in East County, La Mesa, played football. You know, the big scorecard was like, how many girls did you sleep with? Like, that was my upbringing.

Yeah.

And it's no knock on my parents. They did the best they could. Right. Especially with what they were given.

Right.

But the challenge was I had to unlearn so many things that I thought were true. I mean, we were chatting about this before we hit the red button. The way boys are circumcised, how birth is done in the hospital for cesareans, toxic food, EMFs, over supplementation, low quality ingredients, believing things about fitness and health from being a trainer for 10 years that I thought were true. I mean, God, dude, the stuff I've had to like puke out in ceremony and in life could fill a football field. There's a lot there. So I'm wondering for you, like, and again, I love how we're starting this right, because I know we're going to get into science because like that's part of your forte. But I just really want to appreciate the way that you've started this conversation because it is truly everything. Like, why are we even taking the supplements and eating the food and doing the cold plunges? Why does this stuff even matter if we're not a good loving human being to start with? The more cold plunges of red light therapy you do won't make you less of an asshole unless you've done the journey to self to find out why the things you're projecting on others is your ego hiding from its own pain. And that's really the conversation, isn't it? Like, yes, biohacking and supplementation, so super important, actually very important. Can change lives, changed yours. But there had to have been like one belief. I'm going to go back in the time machine if that's cool. There had to have been one thing that you learned from a parent, from society, from someone that really cast a shadow on your psyche that made it 10 times harder for you to know yourself. Can you go back in your memory bank and think about did that wound actually help you become the greatest formulator in the world?

A thousand percent.

So it's such a paradox, right?

Total paradox.

Never would have been who you are. Yet the wounding is where you serve from total.

Totally. I mean, one, that's where your empathy is built, right? Like you can if you know the suffering you're going to feel for others that have suffered similarly. And two, if I didn't gaslight and abuse myself, shame myself, I wouldn't have accomplished all the things I've accomplished. There's no way. And I don't even have the energy for that. Like I used to, like when I literally was doing seven days a week, 100 hours a week of work, I never shut it off. I was getting four hours of sleep a night for decades and there was nothing else. And again like, do you think I was bringing much energy to my marriage? No. Why? Because I was so insecure that I needed to accomplish. Because that's where I'd get love. But what did I always learn? There was people that wanted to manipulate me, use me, and that love was always fleeting. And then I'd gaslight myself more, even when I was accomplishing something, even when I got some award that I've been seeking, money, whatever it was. Well, why didn't you do this? Why didn't you get to that next level? The next level. The next level. The next level. The next level. It never fucking ends. There's always more levels. There's always more, more, more. And you'll never get the love that you're seeking until you give it to yourself. And you have to realize that all the awards and fame and acknowledgement and likes and followers, that can all be fleeting. And then what are you left with? If that's what you've built your whole world on, what are you left with when that's gone? If you're not whole in yourself, you will be destroyed. And for me, when I look at. Yes, all of that built me to who I am, to the world's greatest formulator, to all of the accomplishments, the awards, the academia, the long hours out working, every other person I knew. Yes. And I became incredible at my field. And, yes, there was empathy and passion, and all of those things were there, too. But once I started doing the inner work, interplay, the deeper ceremony kind of aspects, like, that's when I started, like, doing as you said, like, unlearning the pieces that no longer served me. This is where you say, thank you, Sean, 1.0. Thank you for getting me here. Thank you so much. But that type of thinking no longer serves me. And this is what most of the leaders that we have in place now need to acknowledge and say, yes, I'm hurt. This got me here, but I can put this aside now.

The fuel source becomes unsustainable, essentially. Like, you can mash the gas pedal down for a while, but then at some point, the tires pop, the transmission.

That's. That's what was happening to me. I had all these autoimmune conditions, f. Myalgia, chronic fatigue. Hashimoto. I had a brain tumor, like, all at once in. Yeah, yeah.

How old were you?

30. Like, this is all between 27 to 35. Like, I had all kinds of conditions. I had two discs replaced in my neck. Like, my whole body was breaking down.

Yeah.

And right before I started doing this work, Going into the ceremonies, I was ready to commit suicide, either intentionally or hoping that it would happen indirectly because I was sick all the time, like, I was going to die. I was using Lunesta or Ambien, Xanax at night, and I was stimulating with, you know, ephedrine and, and caffeine and T cream, Dynamine, all my ingredients, like. And I was, like, using all these things to try and make it through the day. I had all kinds of pain. My body was shutting down. I was trying to power through it and gaslighting my. My health, myself and taking these benzos. And I would have this horrible sleep where I was apneic, not breathing for a minute. Or more literally, I. I had a test that showed that. That several times through the night, I would go a minute without breathing, and then I, like, gag. Like, literally, someone's got their hands around my neck a hundred times during a night. You think that that's restful sleep, that your psyche is going to be okay with that, that, oh, it's time to go to sleep where we're going to feel like we're being attacked and we're dying and we're being tortured. And then I would wake up with blood in my mouth, with a uvula the size of my throat because I was coughing and gagging and snorting through the night so bad. And that was obviously, as you're saying, not sustainable. And. And even more embarrassing is when you're someone that's known to be in the health field.

Right? This is rampant. So. So with respect, I'll ask because I know it's a tender life that we all live, especially the stuff that we're still healing from. What was it connected to? What was the thing that you either weren't willing to see or you were unconsciously incompetent to see about childhood, adolescence, teenage years? Like, I think this is really helpful for me and for all of us on the journey, right. Was there one imprint that really stunted your growth, that arrested your development, that then led to all these health complications? Or was it like an amalgamation of a bunch of them? Was it one or was it many?

There was. Yeah, it was. There was no self love, like, none, zero.

And because it wasn't modeled or because it wasn't.

It wasn't modeled, it wasn't there. During my childhood, I was always told to be tougher, to don't cry, like, you know, all those kinds of things. And it was very difficult. Growing up, my. My brothers ran away or got thrown out. And then because of like, because of that, I. I overate. I was bullied at school, even by teachers, and I never felt safe. And then I was the one that was bullying myself all the time as a result, gaslighting myself. Like, why aren't you tougher? Why aren't you doing more? Like, you. You're terrible. You know, and it goes back to that idea that if anyone talked to you like you talked to you, you wouldn't be their friend, right?

Yeah. Yeah.

And so I was the worst one talking to myself. And I just always believe that love was fleeting. Love was conditional. And so I was always seeking it, but always knowing that it could be gone any second, even if I get it. And so I was never at peace. I had zero peace. It was the first time, like, when I did a journey, one of the things that shocked me is, like, I yawned. The first time I did a journey, I was like, I couldn't even remember the last time I yawned. Like, just relaxed. Like, you know, that wasn't in my DNA.

So the hypervigilance was deep.

Oh, my God. Like, that was like, that was where I was, that very low vibration all the time. It's like, who's going to hurt me? You know, how can I keep accomplishing? Yeah, like, that's where I was.

Dude, this is so powerful because I don't think it's gender specific, although I do think it slants toward a father wound for me and for most men that are high achievers. I remember I interviewed this guy named Doug Brackman, and he wrote a book on entrepreneurs and why people are so driven. And he basically compounded. What you and I are discussing, which is the fuel source for many entrepreneurs, is, I'm gonna show the world. I'm gonna show dad. I'm gonna show you, you know, the revenge is the best success. This kind of bullshit phrase that we hear, but it's just not sustainable because love is the only sustainable thing. And it's so easy for me to say that on a podcast when I'm sitting here and we're exchanging love, right when I'm doing something that I love. But I've had moments like that, too, where I didn't even know what love was. I didn't know why my mom was sick. I was angry at God, my dad was gone. It was just like hell. And then fast forward. I'm still at 44, still unwinding and unpacking these aspects of hyper vigilance where I think that someone's gonna screw me over or somebody's gonna take Money or somebody's gonna do something bad to me. I think really the takeaway that I'm getting from you is like, when do we decide that the fuel source is unsustainable? That's the big question, right? Yeah. It could be your body breaking down. It could be your soul finally screaming at you so loud that you're like, okay, I'm listening. I remember I was in a journey once and I was throwing up and shitting at the same time and I just screamed out, I'm listening. With like vomit coming down my mouth. I can laugh at it now. At the time it was super insane and severe. So I'm curious, like, if you were to be able to go back, and not that you should or would, but if you were to go back, if somebody's on a similar bent where they're already setting themselves up to prove themselves, what do you think you actually needed back then? Was it just like a hug from your mom? Was it, Was it like your dad saying I love you, that there's gotta be something there? Because this is the emotional intelligence that us as men resist talking about. And this is why this conversation is so important. Man, it's so important.

I mean, I think I needed the exact journey that I was on in terms of my life. Like, where I needed. As they always say, like, you need to hit rock bottom. You need to be like on the edge. I've never, never seen anyone evolve or make massive change without doing some kind of entheogen, without like maybe like having some life threatening disease. Like, it needs to be like, otherwise your constructs are so powerful you cannot overcome them. There needs to be like, I'm at the point where I'm going to die or I'm going to change or something's going to happen. That's radical. You need to be at that point. As long as there's the safety net, as long as there's that you feel like, I can keep going, I can keep having cognitive dissonance, I can keep lying to myself and I'm okay, then you won't change the constructs, the ego, it's too powerful. It's only when like the whole matrix gets thrown out and you're just standing there looking at the zeros and ones and you're saying, like, damn, I got to do something, Something's got to change because this whole thing feels broken around me and there's no one to blame but you. You can say, oh, you know, yes, I can talk about father wounds and all these people that bullied me and hurt me. But, like, I'm an adult, there's no one to blame but myself. I am creating the world that's around me. And even when I say, like, oh, all these people have hurt me and whatever, that's a vibration I'm putting out. If I believe I will be hurt, I'm going to be hurt. If I, like, have, like, this vibration of I'm empathic but someone might do me dirty later, that's going to be the people that keep coming in until you learn that lesson, until you can heal from that, until you can vibrate at a higher level of love. Because just being nice is not the same as being kind with high gratitude.

Yes. This kindness for self that I think is maybe the most challenging thing. The monster in the head that barks orders that you talked about, this monster can really help us create some pretty epic things, by the way. Like, look what you've created, man.

100%.

I mean, the amount of lives you've impacted from that fuel source can't be denied.

100%.

And paradoxically, you being in the health field, it crushed your health. I mean, I'm not laughing. I am laughing because, like, paradoxes can be funny, right?

Oh, it's super funny.

But the vibrational aspect you're talking about is so profound because, you know, on the screen right now is the Hawkins ladder, right? And so at the bottom of the Hawkins ladder, there's shame, there's apathy, and there's guilt. And actually above that, when you get to anger, anger is more powerful than despair. When you're angry, you're actually ready to do something about it. And then you walk up the ladder to acceptance and the power to change and love and then being of service to others. But I find it so crazy that the holistic lens of this healing path is just never really addressed. People just send their kids or their young adult to talk therapy or put them on pharmacologicals, and it's like this band aid approach. And look, we've all heard about it before, but are you really taking the time. Are we taking the time to. To go 30,000ft in the sky and look at, well, what in my life didn't make sense that I was trying to make sense of? And how was that actually harming me along the way? And how can I create a holistic healing lens that'll actually make a difference? I just. I just find it so fascinating that many of us, you and I included, had to get to this place from being so broken in certain ways that that Actually can be the story we share with other people who are on the journey of healing their brokenness as well. It's the crazy paradox that we've already explored.

Yeah, the. The broken thing has been fascinating for me to kind of like, work on and think about. Like, for a while I thought, you know, I'm beautifully broken. Like, these flaws, these lessons that we need to learn are what drives us, what helps us become better.

That's what we end up sharing with others.

But I also had in some of my deeper work, my inner play, if you will, in some of these ceremonies come up that maybe I'm not broken at all. Maybe the reason that we need to do these ceremonies or masterminds, or, you know, connect with each other, do prayer is that we're this beautiful Lamborghini, this beautiful machine built by God, and yes, we get some dirt and grime built up on it, and it just needs to be cleaned off sometimes. And we need to be reminded about how perfect we. We are. Maybe it's not that we're broken. Maybe we're just perfect and we just need these lessons every now and then to be reminded of this. This incredible work of art that we are.

A lot of times it's hard to recognize the work of art or even see the work of art if the body or the lens in which you're trying to see it is so altered. In other words, if we're so far out of homeostasis, someone might listen to this podcast and they're just like, yes. You know, they're in their car, like, yes, this is my path too. But if the physical body. This is why in all of our programs, we teach the physical first, then the mental, emotional, spiritual, financial. Because if the physical's off, man, it's almost impossible most of the time to be able to even have spiritual reflection, spiritual maturity, and become an adult. If we're not eating right, sleeping right, drinking water and breathing basic stuff. But it's crazy because I. I watched my father and I watched my mother really have no aware awareness of these things. They just did the best they could. Like, we were raised on welfare, which is Velveeta cheese, no produce, kicks cereal. I mean, talk about a Molotov cocktail. For my lifelong battle with sinusitis, that was like 25 years. So the way in which my physical body from the jump was harmed and wasn't healed, it set this ominous cloud over life where I didn't trust God, I didn't trust life because my physical body was in such disrepairs. Can you Reflect on that for yourself. I mean, definitely when you're in your 20s, when the wheels were falling off, right? But I wonder for parents, gosh, it's like, what do parents need to know about raising their children so that their children can actually have these fundamentals in place? Because, yeah, in my opinion, it's like, this is why Nova and Naya eat organic food and we have the crock pot every day and we're eating real food. We sit together, we play together, we do things as we're naturally designed. But our society is so different. Look at phones and doordash and Netflix and all these things that are just attacking our fundamental way of existing. And it makes me sad, but it also makes me empowered. So that sadness actually empowers me to share that it doesn't have to be that way. It's like the emperor's actually naked. The emperor's not wearing any clothes. We don't have to pretend that all these things are normal that are pulling us away from each other and pulling ourselves away from our health. I wonder for the parents, like, you have a bonus daughter now, right? So you're definitely focused on building the blocks of these fundamental things. The eating, the moving, the sleeping, the breathing, the hydration. People may have heard this a thousand times, Sean, but if you could just share it from this place. What are the core fundamentals before you even introduce supplementation? When somebody is having a hard time, when somebody, child or not, is going through massive health complications, there's. There's got to be a formula there, for sure.

I mean, it's not. It's not to medicate them, first and foremost. And it's. We're in, like, a world of not only, like, over medication, but even, like. What's even more insidious is the degree of, like, polypharmacy. That's like the drug to drug interactions. Like maybe like really famous drugs. Like when I was a clinician for about 10 years as a chief clinical dietitian, really famous drugs. You might know how two of them interact. We don't know how. 10, 100. When I was in the nursing home, there was people that were on over a hundred medications on the. On the. Literally, like, on the. On the cart. Like, they'd be popping these pills out of these cards. They going through what's called the MAR, the Medical Administration Record. Seven to 10 pages, and there's about 10 meds per page. They'd have to flip through and just serve these people this cocktail. Then they'd throw them in the pudding and the Applesauce. And then they tried to get these people to eat all of them. And then, you know, they were just like, I don't want to take this many pills. And then they'd spit them up and say, like, this is terrible. Like, these taste. I can't do it. Well, then you start making a decision on. Well, you know, the nurse would think, well, you need to at least take these ones because these ones are going to emotionally castrate you enough so that you're compliant. And that's what's happening in the world right now. Is anyone that's kind of breaking free of the matrix, like, we need to plug them the back in. We need them to be docile, to be compliant, to be good boys and girls. And that's where we're at. And we're also serving them light through the phone, through the laptops, through the TVs, through Walmart, through everything else where they're getting light all through the night. And then they can't get good sleep, and then they feel exhausted. Then they need to be on Adderall. And also all of that's leading to metabolic dysfunction. Now they need the Ozempic. And it's like, we keep going down this path of like, medicate, medicate, medicate, medicate. And it's such an easy answer. And it's like the. The devil is right there saying, it's just one more pill. It's just a pill, bro. It's got like the code open. Like, hey, man, it's just a pill. So easy. I'm gonna solve your problems with this pill. Because it's a whole lot harder to fight for a nuclear family. It's a whole lot harder, at least at the onset, to have the discipline to set up the right environment for your child. Whether that's the schooling, what goes on at the house, the exercise, the connecting, fighting for everyone. Sitting around a dinner table, preparing your own food. I mean, those are things that are completely lost. We're now just sitting in front of a TV or our cell phone. We're eating Hot Pockets. We're just, you know, eating processed food. We're stressed out. We're, you know, looking at Instagram while we're eating and whatever it is. Like, we're. We're no longer the nuclear family. We're no longer connected to each other, to God, to nature. We're disconnected, we're isolated. And of course, kids are going to have behaviors of acting out. I think we're all sitting in this world of, like, we all know that something's wrong. Deeply wrong. Compare it to 50 years ago. I mean, where we're infertile, where we're unable to. To get erections, where we're looking at porn all the time, where we're gambling all the time, where we're disconnected from God. And where has it led us? Does. Does this world seem happier right now? Did the children seem happier? Do the parents seem happier now that we have no more nuclear family? Now that spirituality is not important. The only thing you can do is soothe with drugs. And honestly, that's all I was doing for a long time, was soothing with either medications or. A lot of my knowledge from supplements was driven around how much I hated my body. And trying to do weight loss and then using pro hormones and things that, like, trying to get muscle, but then I'd, like, kill my liver. I went to the hospital because my liver was failing from using some of these pro hormones. And I was trying to do all these biohacks, all these things that I was learning. I got so good at all the biohacking because I was just trying to keep my body alive from all the crap I was doing to wasn't like, I'm building, like, this healthier human being, and I'm stacking all these great biohacks on top of, like, a perfect foundation. I was just trying to survive all that. I was doing all the gaslighting that two to three hours a night, the. All these behaviors, the lack of love. That's why I was doing the biohacks, taking all these supplements every single day, no matter what.

I go up to Nova and I say, guess what? Daddy loves you.

I love you.

And recently he's been saying it back. It is the most powerful medication to verbalize love, to actually verbalize it. And it's crazy, because I know somebody out there is thinking, my dad never told me he loved me. Now, this isn't about victimhood, right. Because our parents do the best they can. However, the ramification of a lack of verbalized love or a lack of verbalized praise or acknowledgement or that you see somebody, that you feel them, that you appreciate them, these things are so important. They're actually verbal nutrients.

Right.

Our body is mostly water. So when my voice box is talking to you, when I say to you, hey, man, I really receive you, I receive. We've lost the art of even receiving. Have you ever. Back before Hannah, have you ever, like, been dating someone or. Y' all can relate to this. You give somebody a compliment and they just laugh at it.

Yeah.

That they can't even receive it.

Yeah.

Because they've trained their psyche that it's not real or they're not worth it. And that's a thing that I think we can all start with, with children is actually giving and receiving and sharing love with them. But for real. Not because you have to. Not because, you know, science says it's good to tell you love them three times a day just because it's just natural. There's just natural ways of being that we've become so isolated from. And I think another one, man, I'm curious how you feel about this, is actually going and learning how to play from your children. My children teach me how to play more than any adult ever could.

Yes.

All these adults that go party on the weekend and drink and spend 300 bucks on alcohol instead of supplements, by the way, or paraxanthine or something good for them, they will destroy themselves. And I asked myself this question, like, what are y' all even celebrating? Like, what are you even celebrating? You're going out on a weekend and celebrating what, a retreat from your life?

A retreat.

A retreat from reality.

So they hate Monday through Friday.

So it's the weekend, y'.

All.

How many songs are like, I think Miley Cyrus has a song, like, about the weekend. I don't know. You could probably tell me with your boy band knowledge. I know you're more skilled in that than I am. But anyways, what I'm getting at is I think it really comes down to if I don't have the love within myself, I can't give it to my children. So that begets the question, how do adults build the scaffolding within themselves? Because you obviously have. Right? You're sitting here, honestly, dude, like a fully changed man from. From what I've read and when we've podcasted before, there is a formulation here. There's a formulation on. On how to. To build the body and the mind and the spirit and the finances and all the parts of the Pentagon so that they reflect what's inside, which is love. It's love. I. I wonder how we would even start that conversation.

Yeah, I think a few things, like, one of the most powerful lessons that came through in various ceremonies, journeys was granting myself grace, just an allowance to make a mistake and realizing that mistakes are where the serendipity lies in life. The. The greatest in. In science. I'm a scientist. Like, the. The greatest discoveries in science were like, the mistakes, you know, like. Like Thomas Edison. They were like, oh, you've had all these failures and your experiments like, he's like, no, now I know what it's not. Like, everything has a purpose. And if you allow yourself to play your way to discovery, play your way to serendipity, like that's where the great inventions come from. That's where like that new food that you're going to love comes from. That's where that great relationship comes from. Like I found is the serendipity, is the mistakes. Like, oh, I screwed up so much on this dating site and this last girl broke my heart. I'm done. And then I find the love of my life. Allow yourself that grace that God wants for you, that anyone that loves you wants for you, that you want for your child. You know, it's like the, the whole thing about, like, like what is it about the dog? Like, be the, be the, the person that your dog thinks you are.

Yes, yes.

You know, it's like if you could be that, like the way that you treat your dog or your child, I mean, can't you treat yourself that way if your inner child was sitting there in front of you? The little version of Sean I worked with, this really famous hypnotherapist, literally charges like $2,000 an hour to work with pro poker players because, you know, it's all about kind of.

Yeah.

You didn't know. Yeah, Elliot. And he, you know, obviously mental fortitude, cognitive resilience is, is really powerful in that profession. Right. And maintaining it for like 10, 12 hours. And that's why they wear the sunglasses.

And the hat and the hoodie because I mean, trying to poker face it.

Through of all sports, that one's, that one's brutal. Yeah, right. Maybe golf is up there too. But mental fortitude is going to be key. And anyway, I did a session with him and he had me go back to my childhood to a moment where I was traumatized. I, I just remembered, you know, being a, A, a kid sitting there in front of a Christmas tree and I was like 5 years old and I was crying and it was already powerful. I already started crying when I was already in this kind of state, this almost like catatonic type state. Like the way he kind of puts you in there and very open to suggestion, very like powerful in my feels, feeling that five year old child and he's crying and, and he said, can you give that child a hug? And I hugged that child. It was like so powerful for me to like hug myself, that inner child. And then he said, what does that child think about you? And then I started sobbing because that 5 year old is like, holy shit, he's a rock star. Are you kidding me? I grew up in the 70s, 80s, and it's like, I thought, like, going to, like, Myrtle beach or Florida was like, crazy. I lived up in Maine at the time. I was like, wow. I thought someone who had a swimming pool was, like, crazy rich. Or like some people have a Corvette or something. Like, some people get to go out to heat a couple times a month, you know, like, like these are things like, wow. Like, here I am. Like, I've been to 60 countries, I built multiple businesses, patented all these ingredients, formulated over a thousand supplements. And. And I was just like, oh, my God. It was like the first time I feel like I took a breath of, like, wow. And to give myself that adulation or pride or love was the first time I felt that in my life. And I realized what I was seeking from others. I finally just gave to myself. And it was so transformative. I felt like I healed about 15 wounds, like, in that one conversation. So that's the, that's the game changer that we're talking about with all these, you know, adults, I think if they can give themselves that love. And look, my first journey, my very first journey. I. I went in, I think I've told you this. I. I had all these celebrities there, the famous people, bunch of people you've had on this show. I was the most unfamous person there at the time. Didn't give my resume. Normally I walk in, I always give my resume because here's the reason you should love me. Here's why I'm of value to you because you might discard me otherwise. I know love's fleeting, love's conditional. Don't throw me out, don't throw me out. Here's why I'm important. Here's my resume. I didn't do that this time. I was kind of quiet because I was a little scared about doing my first journey. And of course, there's all these celebrity people there. And so I go in and I, you know, go about halfway in. And then they're like, hey, do you want to go up more? I'm like, okay. Like, I ended up doing about five and a half grams worth of psilocybin. And I'm laying there in the. In the cuddle puddle. All these people are around me, holding space for me, being kind to me, asking if I need to go to the bathroom, asking if I need water, offering, like, grapes and different things and hugging me. And I kept saying, like, all night long, like, why why are these people here? Why would they do this for me? Who am I to them? They don't know who I am. And then finally, the epiphany was, I can just have love. I can just be loved. You could tell me that all day long. I can rationalize that. I can see the logic in that. I can intellectualize that. But I. I couldn't have felt it in my heart, anchored it in my heart. And when I finally believed that I could have love, that I'm worthy of love, that love isn't necessarily fleeting, and that I felt whole internally. That's when everything all. All of a sudden I went from suicide to having a purpose. And, you know, that's what I wish for everyone else. Yes. Like, I still have my drive, my passion, but I've let off that gas pedal of. Of gaslighting. And now it's a desire to serve. It's a desire for others to have this love within themselves that I feel for myself and those around me that deeply matter. That's what's driving me now. That's my. My icky guy.

Sounds pretty sustainable.

Yeah, exactly.

It doesn't sound so exhausting as the other one.

Exactly.

Man, you're reminding me of a brother that you must meet at some point. Maybe you already have. His name is Mark Groves.

I met him. Yeah.

Okay, so he was on the podcast and he said something so profound. That's exactly what you're talking about. He went through his own journey, as we all do, but when he really found exactly what you're describing. And by the way, y' all, like you, you're not going to be able to find this in one book or a PDF with the five Steps to Loving Yourself. That's why, like Barnes and Noble or Amazon Self Love is like the most massive. There's like millions of books. But this one nugget that I'm going to share, it just touched me so deeply, just like you just did. And when he got to this realization, he said, ah, the child can rest. The adult is here.

Now that's another thing. That's powerful statement that came through on another journey. I was working with Dr. Steven Young, and he has these recordings that talk about the. The masculine and feminine, but he also has recordings that you listen to for a little while while you're in these states on being the adult and the child. And I realized that I can be the parent to myself that my parents weren't. And it's on me to do that. I can take care of that inner child. I don't have to blame anyone else. There's no more victimhood. I can be the parent. I can adult my child, and also my child can teach me how to play. And I had went through seven years of not being able to have a child with my former wife, and that was brutal.

Did you try ivf? And you went through all the things.

And we lost one after it took. And I gave up after that. But one of the things. And I still had a lot of pain around that. A lot. And one of the things that came through in that journey is that there's a child right here, bro. There's a child right here that needs love. What about that child? And just like you're saying, like, realizing that and get rid of this stuff about blaming your parents. Like, be that parent. Be that parent. Protect that child and let that child play and teach that adult how to do these things. You need each other. The inner child, the outer adult. You guys need each other. Take care of each other.

This is the journey to self, though. The journey to self is spirituality. Ain't sexy, dude. Okay. Self growth, self love, inner work. Yeah, there's a lot of content out there about it. But you know why I do this podcast is because I've been through my own journey that's been very painful. And it's actually what drives me. Not that I'm coming from my pain, but that I'm aware and I'm honoring the pain that I've been through. And then that frees me from saying it's my dad's fault or it's my mom's fault or I was bullied as well. So we have that in. I was overweight. I was 280 pounds when I got out of high school. Not playing football anymore. And these things, they're. They're so powerful. If we can just have this ripping of the tree out of the ground and putting it somewhere else, and I can actually look at what's happened for me instead of to me, this is massive. Because if I can truly see something happening, and I mean, I'm looking at all my questions I was going to ask you. I'm just throwing them to the side.

Because.

You sent me something recently. It was on Instagram, and it was about the amount of hugs that you get. 11 for nourishment, one for love and oxytocin, and then I think 12 for actually growing yourself. We need 12 hugs a day.

How many times for maintenance, 12 for growth? Yeah.

How many times in my life have I gone months without giving someone Else, a hug. When I was deep in my process, right when I started the podcast, I was probably not 10 years ago. I was not hugging a lot of people. I was 80 grand in debt. I was struggling with a porn addiction. Like, you name it, man, I was experiencing it. And then it wasn't until I got served. And I mean served by God in the most crazy way, but in the most beautiful way, where in the span of six months, I put my mom in a mental home for her bipolar. I broke up with a woman I thought I was gonna be with. I got fired from a quote, safe job, corporate. But everything was directing me this way. And so I'm not here to wax poetic. And I really want you all to feel this. Like, my intention here is not to be preachy. My intention here is just to share my heart. Like, my heart is saying that all of these things that happen for us, they happen for us for a divine purpose. It's truly a divine purpose. It's 100% divine. Yet in the moment, we feel like we're a victim. We feel like God doesn't love us. We feel like our parents aren't on our side or, you know, our girlfriend, our boyfriend. Like, everybody's against us. It's literally just a construct. It's just a chip that gets to be reprogrammed in the way that we see and feel and experience things. But to trace that chip back, that's the work. That's the real work. And I want to circle back because this is really important. This is one of the things that I love about you, man. Your ability to have a foot in academia and personal development, your work with Mindvalley, your work with pharmacological agents, your work with supplements like Parisanthin is a freaking godsend. I haven't had a coffee in almost a year, y'. All. That's true story. Like, amazing.

That's incredible.

So there's so many beautiful things that come from your pain, yet your ability to have a foot in science and academia and formulation and this connection you have to God and yourself and loving yourself. I mean, there's no way you won't be able to create another formulation that'll change a billion lives. It's just inevitable at this point because you've done so much work in the academic space, and you've done so much work personally. Like, this is the cocktail that most of us are looking for. But I think what holds us back from actually finding it is our resistance to the change, our resistance to the mental program getting out of Victimhood, getting out of things happening to me instead of for me. This is real. This is not just woo woo pseudoscience. This is actual, practical, real personal development work. But it's hard. It's hard. It's easy for us to hear something like love yourself. Love ain't a light switch, y'. All. You can't just go flick it and all of a sudden you love yourself. Like it's a, it's a journey to get there. So, so from that place. You know, this is my favorite question I love to ask people. You hold the world of academia and a formulation and you hold the world of self, love and spirituality. What do you think comes from those two worlds when they get pushed together? What's birthed from that space?

I think that's what true science should be. The idea that science is somehow limiting is crazy to me. When you hear someone say like that's a scientific fact or, or that's been proven. The only place that gets used is in marketing. Like a good study always says at the end we need to do more research. Like we found that in these certain circum circumstances and in these conditions with these people, on average, this is what we saw and we need to do more research. But I find that like if you look at Albert Einstein, you look at some of the greatest scientists, they're thinking way outside of the box. They're thinking with a spiritual mind, not like a limited mind, not with like getting deeper and deeper inside these constructs and making your box smaller and smaller and smaller. That's not a scientist anymore. Ironically. That's dogmatic religion. Ironically. Yeah. Scientists hate saying religion is right, but ironically that's what they've created is the science religion. And as we know, there is no such thing as proof or fact in science. Everything's about perspective or these certain conditions and these averages and, and things get disproven all the time. And I always look to when someone asks me a question about what's, what's like the science take on this. I always say, well this is what has been shown so far. But I'm open, I'm always saying I'm open, I'm open to learn a different way for new data to come along. Science is not closed minded. It should not be. It's ironic that it's become a dogmatic religion that's weaponized.

Why do you think that's happened specifically? Like I used to, during the shmovid times, people would say it's science. What comes up for you as a scientist when someone Says to you, well, believe it because it's science.

Well, I mean, south park did a whole their masters. South Park's great.

The one you showed me with the prime drink was so good. That was so funny.

But this is about, like where science replaces God. Like where they say the word science everywhere that you'd use God, like, oh my science, or, you know, science in the future has taken the place of God because it's the new authority that they try and control you with. And trust me, I'm, I'm actually someone who's very God fearing. But religion can be weaponized in the past, and we saw that throughout history. But now it's science that's weaponized because we've seen the narrative where science has replaced religion. And now that's what's told to you as a way to stay in line, to plug back into the matrix, to get your work done, to take your medications. Listen to science in any science that you see out there can be this direction or that direction. I can show you enough studies on any topic that will show in this light or in that light. So what science are we listening to? And who's telling us that science and who funded that science? And who benefits from them telling us this science? Follow the money trail. Who benefits in terms of the power? And that's where the science is controlling us. And that's no longer true science to me, science is meant to be empowering. Science is meant to be a journey. Science is meant to be open ended. I believe, like science is an art, like it's meant to be explored and that we never ever truly get an answer. Just like really good religion should be in your life. It's a journey with no definitive beginning or end. And we get to explore and find what makes sense for us. That's science.

Listen, Taylor, you can relate to this. We just had Paul check in the studio and he explained from a spiritual perspective what you just explained from a scientific perspective. Guess what? They're the same. They're literally the same.

Totally.

So when you divorce them, when you bifurcate spirituality and God and science, you end up with the malady we have now. This is where we are. I'm not in any way celebrating it. It actually makes me quite sad, which is why this conversation can shift lives just by taking these two perspectives into place. There's a guy that I think, you know, he's like one of the Qualia formulators, Daniel Schmachtenberger. And the very first time I ever interviewed him, he said, you know, the goal for real empathy and connection. And the best life you. You could ever have would be. Can you see the world from someone else's eyes? Can you actually see the world? Can you have compassion for the way that someone else sees things? I understand why parents triple masked and, you know, got 10 booster shots and they did all this stuff from fear because they were weaponized. They were. They were propagandized.

Yeah.

But when you start talking about these things, that fear that created the very construct these parents operated from is the very fear that they come back at you with because they're so married to that God of safety, when really it's just pseudo safety. It's just safety that was sold to them by the money that was made from that sale. And this is the part that really just. It irritates me, but I understand that it's just part of the theater kind of playing out here in a grand, grand vast way. But it doesn't have to be that way. Like, we can literally use our moment together that we have to just shift one perspective, which then ripples into another perspective when you throw a rock in a pond. That's why there's ripples, man. This conversation can ripple out into so many things. Because when you start at any one of the five sides, when you start with physical and you start eating well and you start playing, you start having improvement of mental health. Start anywhere. It's like, do the best with what you have. Wherever you start, start on one of the five sides of yourself that will lead to improvements on the others. I mean, it surely worked out for you that way. So there's no perfect formula for this. There's no perfect formula for this. But start. Start somewhere, right? Start somewhere. And don't believe these lies that are sold to you that really you're just a monetization agent for.

Yeah, no, it's perfect. Like, I. I definitely worked on nutrition and exercise and the biohacking supplements and. But I was still hurting inside emotionally, but I was healthier. I was getting healthier. I was definitely in a better place than I was prior to those things.

Could you see, looking back, could it be possible that as you started to take more care of your physical self, that it even gave you the capacity to look at your inner child to do? There's no way you could have done it, right?

Totally.

Have you seen this play out time and time again with peers, with people that write in about your products? I mean, everybody's looking for a quick change, Right. But no change happens fast. It's meaningful.

It's true. I was listening to a podcast with Dr. Conover on peptides with Andrew Huberman and he was talking about like it's really important with your patient to just get them feeling better. Like work on like some simple things to get them feeling better. And then they might get to a place where they can, you know, work on the exercise, work on the spiritual. If, if you can help them, give them the training wheels. If you can help them have a little bit more energy, less inflammation, less fatigue, less overwhelm. I mean, think about how overwhelm plays out when your psyche is in this state that it's in, right?

Yes.

If we can train ourselves as we've been talking about, to get to more parasympathetic. If you're doing just simple things like grounding, like getting sunshine, breath work, taking a walk, saying I love you, getting some hugs in, taking that walk, taking a minute to breathe, taking a minute to slow down, unconnecting, disconnecting from the electronics. Now there's a lot more that's possible when you're not in a state of overwhelm in the body. Physiologically, scientifically, it's called allostatic capacity. A lot of my book is about that. The stress bucket, like how much capacity do we have for stress? If the bucket is one, small, two, it's overflowing. You don't have much room to handle new things that come in.

Yeah.

And especially if you're the type of person that's always maxing out till that last little drop. And of course things are going to come in randomly. There's going to be a death in the family, there's going to be a loss of a job, there's going to be a medical bill or you know, your car is going to break down. There's going to be something when you're maxing everything out all the time and there is no self care, there is no parasympathetic, there is no down regulation of this ultra vigilance. And that's the idea is get them feeling better, like help them decrease the stress and then increase the size of the stress bucket, the allostatic capacity. And that's done through hormesis, that's done through challenges physiologically, mentally, spiritually. The idea of hormesis is going to hold up across all five of your categories.

For people that have never heard hormesis, what is that exactly?

Hormesis, it's going to be like a stressor that's going to elicit adaptation. So this is like the idea like you probably heard of, you know, cold plunges, hot saunas, hiit workouts, fasting, ketogenic diet, you know, metabolic flexibility, you know, meal timing, macronutrient cycling. Like what, whatever it is. Like it's, it's just like the idea of periodization and working out. I'm sure you know, you know about that. Paul Check talks a lot about that. That was a breakthrough, the idea of periodization. You know, guys were going to the gym and doing the same type of workouts every day, doing the same curls, the same order every day. And then the idea that if I mix this up, if I mix up the type of movements, if I mix up the weights, if I mix up the reps, if I mix up the speed, if I mix up, you know, maybe I'm doing eccentric only, you know, and overloading where someone's helping me with the negatives, right? All of those kinds of things, those are hormetic effects like where that, that positive stress to a point is going to help you adapt. There's the bell curve again, this is in my book, this is the idea that there's a bell curve for the amount of stress that you can take on, right? And so this is the idea that there's going to be a certain amount of stress that is going to elicit a greater and greater and greater amount of adaptation. And the best point is going to be at the tip of the bell curve, at the top tip, sorry. And that's going to be the Goldilocks zone where that's the most amount of stress that you can take on for the most amount of adaptation. But then there's the backside, the right hand side of that curve where it starts going back down again. And that's going to be where it's no longer U stress, EU stress, a good stress. And now it's a distress where now it's starting to be counterproductive. And that's where being in tune with your body is going to be critical. That's where knowing your allostatic capacity, knowing the size of your stress bucket, where yes, maybe last month that cold plunge, that hot sauna, that fasting was good for you, helping you grow stronger, giving you hormesis. But this month you just got divorced. This month you just lost your job. This month your pet just died. This month your mother's sick and you're having to take care of her. Wow, okay, like there's more stress on your plate. Those things that were you stresses before are now distresses. So this is the idea of allostatic capacity and your allostatic load. And understanding hormesis is there's going to be a time and a place that these things are effective and sometimes they're not. And it's all like in science, especially in a lot of my ingredient studies, it's called like a dose response curve, like where there's going to be a certain effect that you're going to see at a certain dose, and then maybe it's a greater effect at a greater dose and a greater effect at a greater dose, but then that effect starts going down and down and down where you're no longer seeing that effect response anymore. And it's actually being maybe potentially counterproductive. So that's hopefully helpful.

It's really helpful. It reminds me like in my beginning holistic health journey, I, I read Eat, Move and Be Healthy and he brought up allostatic load. And I started to wonder like, huh, this flies in the face of everything I learned as a trainer, which was the OPT model, right? Strength, stabilization and power. But it was very myopic. It was like, okay, you do these inputs and then you wait and you do different body cycles and you do push, pull one day and locomotion another day and rotation another day. But at the core of it, it never really addressed what I think maybe you studied. And I'm curious how you feel about this. The Hans Selye model, right? The general adaptation syndrome with the bell curve. Because what Selye talked about and what he proved for like decades, although some people disagree with his model, is that on the other side of that bell curve, that's where cancer, that's where autoimmune, and that's where all disease actually comes from. It's when people push so hard that they think more is more, but more is not more. But we live in a society where it's like a bigger car, a bigger dick, a bigger house, bigger. Everything is better. I mean, we're in Texas, man. They have like 14 pound cinnamon rolls here. Bigger is not bigger is not always better. Bigger is not always better. Yet there's again, again with the conditioning and the believing things that aren't true and the shedding and the unlearning of things that we think are true. It flies in the face of modernity, that's for sure. Where better is bigger and bigger is more and more is better. There's got to be some way to attune to this. And maybe you talked about this in your book. I believe you did the, the calibration or the recalibration of how much hormesis is enough and how much hormesis is going to take you to that exhaustion phase in the Celia model? What does that look like practically for, for any of us? I mean, I know it's different if you're a parent and.

Yeah, that's a great point. Yeah, it's definitely something that I believe in. And yes, like, I was definitely doing a lot of the things. And to your point, I was on the, the side of the equation of distress versus eustress.

Yeah, yeah.

I remember I was training so hard with this Russian Spetsnaz Olympic boxer trainer that I had and I was able to do like these flying push ups, like where I could, you know, plank in the air. And I was getting like 3ft off the ground and he had me doing like this, the craziest stuff. And I was constantly getting upper respiratory infections and I was like blacking out while I was working out. And then I was always trying to be keto at the time. And then like one time I like actually drank like one of these 300 calorie, like sugar carb loader drinks that was in the coolers at the time. Like, you know, Blue Thunder or whatever it was. Yeah, you probably remember these American bodybuilding energy drinks.

Yeah, yeah.

Anyway, I had like sugar and it like gave me all my energy back. That was like an awakening that I might need carbohydrate when I'm working out that. But like, I was, I was definitely getting like all these upper respiratory infections because I was working out so hard because like I had spent my whole life being like this laughed at fat body that being the fittest guy in the gym, doing stuff that even the meatheads that were, you know, lifting heavyweights couldn't even dream of doing. I was doing insane stuff and I was running these ultra like tough mudders and all these things just crushing everything. I like run up mountains like bounding up boulders and I was like just in insane shape. But at the same time I was also not in the healthiest place because I was over training. I didn't even know that idea. But one thing that I've learned, I'm certified in the ISSN and a fellow in the issn and I'm trying to remember who came up with this idea, but it was like so impressionable on me. Is one of the researchers I was talking to said over training is just under recovery. And I was like, oh, damn, that's a powerful thought.

Yeah, yeah.

And that's going to hold up across like all five of your categories. Right. Like where you can only do so much in each one of the categories at a time and then you're over training and everything else is falling apart in your house, the other four sides. And you're also under recovering. So you can work on one to a point and then work on another one to a point, then work on another one to a point. But if you just work on one, you'll become the best in the world at it. You become the Michael Jordan, the Tiger woods, the Michael Jackson, the Mike Tyson. And you know what happens when you look at all those dudes?

Chaos, Chaos, chaos.

Dude, I. They're epic at what they accomplished. Epic.

The best.

Like their names will be remembered a thousand years from now. And their lives were a wreck.

Yeah.

All other four pillars were a mess because they wanted to be the best at that one thing. Dude.

There's a clip that we're going to link in this show note because it literally through story of this billionaire. I don't know who the billionaire was, but he said, you know, success. Yeah, I've made billions and I've done all these things, but you know what success really is. He looked right at the interviewer, just somber, and he said, success is when your kids want to spend time with you when you're older. This is a multi billionaire, like feel that. Right? Like, that is literally the fruit that is birthed by knowing how to manage hormesis and knowing how to be a good human being. Do your kids want to spend time with you when you're older? Like when the holidays come, do your children want to hang out with you?

Cats in the Cradle, dude, have you heard that song? Yeah, I mean that's absolutely. That is literally one of the most like powerful, like gut punch songs I've ever. Those lyrics.

Yeah.

I mean, maybe you can share those in here, but like, if anyone listening hasn't heard Cats in the Cradle. But it's, it's this story where, you know, the dad doesn't have time for the child and then, you know, he's busy working.

Oh, yeah.

And then, you know, the dad gets older and older and he's wanting the kid to come around, but the kid says, you know what? I'm too busy, dad. Too busy.

When you coming home, son? I don't know when we'll get together then.

I know we'll have a good time then, son.

It's very sad, but it's a beacon. It's a beacon of truth as to what can happen when you ignore the science. See, this is the blending of Science and spirit.

You reap what you sow.

I mean, literally, like, my. I know it's good because the hair on my legs and arms are standing up. The blending of the science and spirit that you're birthing from. I mean, you're young, dude. You're young. And so can you imagine, like, down the road? I remember we were on the podcast last time when we did the podcast about update, and you said it was in a journey that I knew paraxanthine would be the molding of science and spirit that new creativity would spring from.

Oh, dude.

Do you still feel that way?

A crazy journey. I screamed for, like, again. I was with Dr. Steven Young. I was in Costa Rica. I was listening to his recording, and it was like, I was like, you know, I had the blindfold on. I was listening to it, and I was, like, shaking back and forth, like, kind of like you're saying. And, like, I just scream out because I was just like, I can't take this anymore. Like, I was in a very dark place. Place. I was grieving my. My marriage that was now finished and grieving the loss of my former life in a lot of ways. My house, my pets, like, a lot of different things, and feeling, like, deeply lonely down there, but working on Paris Anthian. And, like, I screamed out, and then I threw off the mask. Everyone else had already, like, you know, been done for a while, like, and they were, like, out gathered, like, outside and, you know, just talking with each other, still kind of in the medicine, so to speak, and. And laughing and good. And I walked out to them and I, like, literally proclaimed in power that parazanthine will shift society. And I said it like. Like, just staring everyone dead in the eyes, like. And everyone was like, okay. As I knew right then that it's. I came up with this idea at that time called the Catalyst of Creation. It's the seed. Because we're evolving in our society. It's no longer about manual labor. It's no longer about being that cog. It's no longer, all in all, you're just another brick in the wall, part of this numbing machine. This is about now we're moving into a world of creators. And this is the seed for creation is paraxanthine. Whereas caffeine has been come at a cost and dragging you along, dragging your limp, dead, lifeless body and coming at a deep cost. And now with paraxanthine, you not only have that energy, it's increasing the nitric oxide to the brain, increasing your glutathione. And catalase, decreasing oxidative stress, increasing serotonin, acetylcholine, dopamine, dopamine for hours, decreasing beta amyloid plaque, decreasing mental errors, improving cognitive flexibility, increasing BDNF neuroplasticity. Literally all the ways that your brain could be younger. It's doing. So it's no longer come at a cost ingredient. It's the ingredient that is going to help us reshape our society if we let it in a very healthy way. Because the relationship that we have with these ingredients of the past, the caffeine and alcohols that were coming at a cost, that were worsening our physiology, we're worsening our spirituality, worsening our connection. Yes, they were getting us to work harder or deal with it. The caffeine in the morning, the alcohol at night. Yeah, but it all came at a massive cost.

How does paraxanthine help to increase stress capacity? Specifically, the bigger the bathtub, the more you can smartly add in the water. But how does paraxanthine help with capacity of stress?

Well, that's a great question. One is going to be the, the idea of decreasing oxidative stress. Again, if we look at the ways the brain ages as we age, there's going to be more oxidative stress, there's going to be less blood flow to the brain, nitric oxide, there's going to be decreased neurotransmitters. We look at things like Parkinson's and that's a neurodegenerative condition where there's less dopamine. Alzheimer's is associated with beta amyloid plaque as well as blood glucose levels. Alzheimer's can be called type 3 diabetes. That's a whole discussion we can get into. If we look at all the ways that the brain ages, this is reversing them. So it's like making the brain younger while it's giving us more energy. We're seeing in our study yet to come out, should be out in the next few months. But we pulled some early data, we with E gamers and what we see is with caffeine there's habitualization and adaptation. Where habitualization is you need to physiologically stay tied to it. You need it and you see that right? At Starbucks or whatever, people are just zombies.

Like seven bucks for a coffee, no problem.

Yeah, the whole like we've talked about this like turn, you know, like the little meter on the coffee cup, it's like, you know, like I don't know, the whole like I'm brain dead till I get my Coffee like it's a hahaha thing, but it's a real thing.

Yeah.

Adaptation is a response where it takes more and more and more and more to get the same effect.

Just like any addiction.

Right. What we see with paraxanthine is you don't have habitualization, you don't have adaptation and you're getting all these benefits of not only the central nervous system stimulant, you're getting the, the adenosine inhibition that's associated wakefulness, but then you're getting all these things that are making the brain healthier. And in the study, this E gaming study, we saw caffeine for the gamers was having like declining effects with continued use. Right. Because there's adaptation one, but two, it's a come at a cost ingredient. Whereas the paraxanthine group, we're seeing improvements with continued use over time. It's actually the reverse. It's not only not a come at a cost ingredient, it's improving you over time with continued use and giving you more energy. This is like the idea of saying, you know, there's people around you that are draining you of energy. There's energy vampires, right? And then saying, well there's people that can give you energy. That's cool, that's cool. That's one level that's a whole lot better than energy vampires. Like caffeine. Caffeine's an energy vampire. Come at a cost. And then maybe there's things like, you know, some adaptogen or whatever, that's not the energy vampire, that's you know, giving you some benefits. But then this parazantine, this is like that great relationship where you and I, this is actually the relationship I think about all the time when I'm around you. I give a lot and I get back so much. The energy that I'm giving out comes back to me many fold where I just feel like I have more and more and more and it's an endless supply of energy. And if you have that abundance mindset, then that's what like paraxanthine is. That's the shift, that's the evolution or the revolution that's happening. This is the caffeine 2.0 is that it's going to change the way society thinks, feels and acts, going to be the replacement for caffeine where it's been this abusive relationship for millennia. 93% of America takes caffeine every day. We talked about this. And 90% of those that take caffeine want to take less. People know it's Bad for them. People know it. It's like saying alcohol probably too. Like, it's probably like similar numbers. People use it and then they're like, well, I want to use less. What's the. What's the real benefit? Maybe if you're taking a small amount here and there, it's actually potentially helpful. Probably the same with caffeine. But the way that we're using alcohol and caffeine, it's not going to be helpful. It's going to be counterproductive. And not just counterproductive physiologically, but all those other sides of that pentagon are going to take that toll.

Yeah, the band aid's real. And the band aid keeps the broken machine running. Essentially, like, feel into this. If you were to actually have energy and not crash and not get home and be a jerk to your wife or be so exhausted from over caffeination that you can't be present for your kids. What comes from that space? What's possible from that space? It's such an overlooked thing. Stimulation and then deadening down by alcohol. This kind of manic cycle. Almost like bipolar in a way.

Right.

We elevate, then we crash. We elevate, then we crash. What's possible from an energetic standpoint when we're not riding a roller coaster anymore? Like, that's the most exciting because then you're actually afforded, and this goes back to my initial question, a bigger bathtub. You're not burning out at the end of the day, which means you need more of a downer, which is alcohol, which, by the way, makes your sleep terrible. And then the cycle continues. What's possible from that place? I think that's really the conversation.

Your stress bucket is much larger. To your point, you call a bathtub or your allostatic capacity, like, it's all the same idea. You're. The allostatic load you're able to take is greater. And so that is the idea, and when you have. In my book, I talk about this a lot, that there's stoicism is the same idea of physiologic resilience and mental resilience are tied into each other deeply. Like, the greater I get at my ability to exercise in the gym, to not only do different heavy lifts, but also do hit training, to also do flexibility training and mobility training and. And be able to balance and, you know, use proprioception and all these different things, my mental resilience is going to be dramatically higher. And this has been shown in many studies. Same on the other end. The more stoic cognitively flexible I am, the more physiologically flexible I can be. It's the same. And, you know, really, this could be applied again to your. To your Pentagon. The spiritual resilience, the financial resilience. It's going to, as you, like, alleviate these woes. As you take these wounds away, obviously there's going to be more energy that's divertible to another place, right? It's going to, like, anywhere that, like, if you take away the energy block or energy vampire on one of those five pillars now, energy is going to flow more freely across all your forms.

It almost feels like caffeine. I wonder how you feel about this. Caffeine is like a tsunami. So it comes in, it gives a bunch of energy, but then when it leaves, there's a wake of destruction. At least that's what it was for me, for sure. Like, I was. I was using caffeine and espresso. I started when I was a trainer. So, like, I would have a 5am client and I would. I would slam, like, probably 300 milligrams of caffeine just to get going in the morning. And I did that for five, six, seven years. And then I started to get ringing in my ears tinnitus, and I was like, man, I got to look at this. That something's wrong here. Something's off. Now, Paraxanthine didn't exist at that time. If it did, I probably would have heard about it. I probably would have been into it. But for people that have never heard about Paraxanthine, this is, yes, it's a scientific breakthrough, but there's a really strong connection as to what came up for you spiritually in the ceremony. This is really real. This is palpable. This is not a podcast where I'm just trying to sell you something like, this is real, sustainable change that you can use as a fulcrum. And then from there, you can start tweaking and changing other parts of yourself. Like, start with what you have, wherever you are. And if you start with the overstimulation and then the deadening down from alcohol, you're not going to be able to grow or change much. But if you just tweak something, like, all I'm saying is if we could just change something in the way that we approach life from an energy standpoint, I mean, that's how revolutions happen. That's how the world changes. We start loving ourselves, we start treating others with more care just by making one choice in a day, literally. It's, like, so simple, right? It's so Simple.

Yet if I can get people to switch from alcohol to this, if I can get people to switch from caffeine to paraxanthine, or like the opioids to kratom, right? Or like these things become massive, massive change agents in your life. And again, going back to that idea of, like, once you have some healing here, it's going to allow for the whole physiology to change.

No doubt, no doubt.

Everything. Like, again, like you're saying, like, the way I'm talking to my wife or to my child, the way that I have energy to throw the ball with my dog. The way that when someone connects with me at work, I'm not like, oh, my God, like, you're such a burden. Like, I'm so, like. This is why I've talked about parazanthine as the flow versus the frazzle. Caffeine has come at a cost. It's frazzle. You're overwhelmed. Your physiology is exhausted. It's taken a toll. Parazanthine is helping you get into the flow, where it's about parasympathetic and sympathetic. That's the yin and yang. That's where I can have that connection, that stimulation along with relaxation. This is the idea of. Instead of clawing and scraping to get it and grinding, what if I can just call it in? And these people that I mentioned before, the Michael Jackson, the Mike Tyson, Michael Jordan, Tiger woods, they know what flow state was like. That's when it's like just. You can do no wrong. Everything's just going your way. I read about this one conductor that called it, like the phantom hand. Like when he was conducting symphonies, like, he didn't even know what his hand was doing because it's just in flow. You're not working at it. You're not trying hard. You're not grinding. You're in flow. It's just coming in. You're channeling. You're using the gifts that God gave you. You're in your genius.

I think you're painting a really peaceful picture, which I love because I think we all want more peace. I mean, isn't that ultimately what our journeys that are woven here at this table we've been speaking about?

We.

We just. We're seeking peace. Isn't that really at the core of it all?

I think, yes.

I'm reductionizing it. But weren't we just seeking peace? Aren't all of us just seeking peace? Calmness, it's.

It can be exhausting. The caffeinated alcohol, opioid Adderall, whatever. Like the. The EMFs and the, and the blue light and it's just we're all exhausted. We're, we're over vaccinated, we're eating our junk food, we're just exhausted. We're not getting quality sleep. And during the day, we're not recharging. We're around toxic relationships, we're not recharging. We don't have a spiritual connection, we don't have connection to pets, to nature, to God, to friends, to family. We're just isolated and exhausted. And if you're not plugging in that plug to God, to nature, to your pets, to your family, to your friends, you'll have no energy left.

All right, I'm going to alienate some listeners, but let's go for it.

Let's go.

So I believe that if you look at Greek mythology, there's the Eros, but then there's also its opposite, which is the pseudo eros. Now this word pseudo, I think is so prevalent in our times. Pseudo energy, pseudo connection, pseudo intimacy, pseudo nature where people are inside and they have a plant and they think that's the same thing as nature. There's this concept of pseudo, pseudo safety, right? Pseudo breakthrough where you do one ceremony and now you're healed and now you're going to become a shaman yourself.

Pseudoscience.

Pseudoscience. I mean, I really, I gravitate towards this word. Not because I love the word, but I love what the word is describing about our times, this word pseudo. Because the pseudo energy that people are getting from caffeine and the pseudo relief they're getting from alcohol is fake. That's at the core of the etymology. It's pseudo is fake or false.

False. Yeah.

Just like they're pseudo gods. False gods. So I think, and I wonder how you feel about this, I think that caffeine and alcohol are actually portions of demonic energy that have been placed on planet Earth to teach our souls how to play a better game. That's what I really think. Just like any drug or any pseudo relief that's not real and tangible. Think about how caffeine was found. There was a goat farmer and his goats ate berries, right? And that's how caffeine was. It started out pure, just like Adam and Eve. Oh, I'll just take one bite of the apple. Well, there's consequences for your actions. And so I think I'm not putting things in two separate silos here. Like this is evil and this is bad, or this is demonic and this is God. Because by the way, it's all God, all of it. Even the devil is God. It's all God. You and I are God. Godding.

Yeah.

God birthed you into the world. God birthed me into the world to experience God's self. And so God wants us to play out this theater where there's caffeine and alcohol. Well, everything evolves. That's why inside of evolution, there's the word love. Evolution. So to evolve from caffeine to evolve into this new species that we all know is possible, that you felt in your journey. I know you felt it because I can feel it on you. Yeah. This evolution, this love of revolution, it only comes when people start choosing different things. And it could be as simple as just letting go of caffeine and alcohol and doing something healthy for you, like Paraxanthine. It literally can change someone's life. I'm not here to be facetious or give you some kind of pseudo safety, but legit. If you just let go of these falsities, which is caffeine and alcohol that literally run the world. Dude.

And tobacco. Yeah.

When I don't. When I don't drink, people are like, you don't drink? Oh, my God. I'm like, no, I don't. I don't play that game. You don't drink coffee? Wow. Don't you miss the ritual? No, because I just love how I feel. Because I feel more loving. I'm evolving. What do you make of this, what I'm presenting?

It's a powerful argument, and I'm.

I mean, it's def. I don't want it to be an argument.

I just want to see a different perspective. Yeah, no, it's a great perspective. I. I think also this is like the. Yes. And it's always yes. And also there's the idea. Just like I presented Sean 1.0 and 2.0, like caffeine and alcohol served humanity to the point that we were making before. There would not be a third shift. There would not be the growth and rise of the United States that we have been blessed in for all the things that are wrong with it. There's a whole lot that's been incredible about this empire that was created and the wealth that it spawned that will echo again millennia for the now. We're always hearing the fall of the US all these things. Still. There's still a lot that's great about this place. And caffeine was a huge part of that. The rise of industrialization, the. The. Again, the. The third shift, the. The capitalism that happened. Now, again, there's dark sides to all those things because it's caffeine and there's dark sides to the alcohol to try and take yourself down a notch. But that was the therapy that people needed too. People were exhausted, people were overwhelmed, people were hurting, people were working 16 hour days in factories. And America rose to greatness. And we've benefited. So thank you. 1.0. We'll take it from here. Thank you, thank you. The past generation that had lots of alcohol and caffeine. Thank you, thank you for this world we're living in. And yes, it has flaws. We'll take it from here. We're going to evolve. As you said. Let's go into the 2.0 now. We know there's a better way. And young people are no longer reaching for the alcohol. They're going to these bars that like we have in Austin, there's several bars now that like don't have alcohol, where people can meet and they can drink things like update or CBD or whatever and connect on a deeper level because they know that now, now these people are starting to do ceremonies with these entheogens that didn't seem like choices, certainly to my dad's generation.

No way.

But alcohol is an easy choice because it was available. Right. It was omnipresent and it was a therapy and it's what he needed to get by is when you're hurting, when you're overworked, when you're overwhelmed, you need something, you're not gonna. My dad's generation is not gonna go to a therapist that was considered fruity or like you're mentally broken if you're doing that.

Yeah. There's no alive and well clinic. Yeah. That they can pop in and get a IV nicotinamide.

So I look at it as like, cool. Like, you know, that was. That was okay. That was okay. That's what they needed and that served us to get here. And evolution, if you've looked at it like the oversimplified evolution is like the little, you know, whether you believe in evolution or not, like as a greater kind of Darwinian kind of thing. Right. Like it's like the, the, you know, ape and then it somehow goes straight to a man. If you actually look at like these species, they don't do that. Like there's like this species that, you know, was here and then they like died off while this one was over here. And it's like not a straight line. It's as things are coming, the situation that's called for leads to a certain type of evolution. So things aren't a straight line. And so that's the same with the, the, you know, the caffeine, the alcohol. It's not going to be a straight line. It's not going to be just a quick fix. It's not going to be. It's going to be over time as needed. We'll make this shift.

And I also want a presence too. It's not that inherently alcohol is bad or caffeine is bad. It's just that because of the allostatic load that we're experiencing as a collective, we become way more susceptible to addictions of all kinds, right? And it's like, you know, the addictions in the corner, doing push ups all the time, dude, it's just waiting. It's waiting for people that just need relief, need peace. But there's a different way, man. And if, look, if, if I can have my son and my daughter feel and listen to this conversation when they're my age. Like, this is the coolest part about podcasting, right? Is, you know, barring they put this like off, off the world, and hopefully this is stored in a water hard drive somewhere in the future, that'd be really cool. But, you know, if y' all are listening to this in the future, just know that we, we were dealing now with the same stressors and the same maladies and the same hardships that you are dealing with when you're listening to this now. Hopefully we have evolved and I know that we will by that point. And so that's my prayer. And my wish is that somebody can actually feel a change by hearing us. Not just in Parisanthine, but also the ways that you've shared, man, just this beautiful blending of spirit and science. And I think we end it right there because that's really what we're doing here, right? If we're not leaving the world, better. If we're not doing something that's actually going to be of real service to the people that we love. And I love my family the most. Right? I love my friends too. Then what are we actually doing? If we're not leaving it better, what's, what's the point of this? Are we just hedonists floating around on a rock in the middle of outer space? I say no, we're not that way. That's not who we are. I think, I think our journey here is to evolve. And dude, it's just such a pleasure to evolve with you.

It's beautiful. I believe in what you're saying deeply that we are here to evolve, that we're here to learn the lessons. That is why we're here. We're meant to get to a better place by the end of our lives. That also echoes forward as you're saying to our children, our children's children. If we continue to do better, be better, grow, then so will they. Are we leaving the world better off when we leave this world? Did you grow? Did you learn the lessons? Why God put you here? What are we doing about it?

And no shame or blame if you don't, because you'll come back around and learn them again and you'll just keep learning them till you get them right. So that's the big theater that we're unfolding, man.

You can link the egg. If no one's seen that video, I want people to watch that video.

What's that? What's this about?

Oh, the egg.

Yeah.

I can't even describe it. It's a seven minute video on YouTube. It's about learning the lessons. It's about exactly what you're saying. I'll say. All right, let's pique their interest.

Let's put that in the notes. Sean, what else gets to be said? I mean, we've covered this a beaut. One of my favorite conversations I've ever had. Like 700 podcasts. Like, I really connect with what you're doing. There's a practicalness to you. There's a heart to you. There's a service to you. There's a spirituality to you. Like, dude, this is what's needed. Like, this is the kind of father, parent, husband, human beings that the world needs. Can you tell I really love you?

No. I feel the same way about you. Like, that's why I get inspired by you. That's why I get energy from you. When I get around you, I feel more vulnerable. I feel more powerful. I feel more gifted when I'm around you. And those are the people that you want to put yourself around. I'm going to leave it with this. Like, when I get asked this question all the time, one of the things that I'm coming up with, and maybe this is going to lead into a next book, is because I wrote the energy formula, but it's all about the energy. Are you tracking. If you were to put down a list, people ask me how to become successful, how do I become more like you? I get, like, all these people that want me to mentor them. Make a list of the things in your life that give you energy. The relationships. The Josh Trent's for me, the Hannah's for me. The Music that gives you energy, the hobbies, the movies, the foods, the places you go. Literally just flip through, like, your. Your cell phone and go through all these names. Oh, my God, that person, Man, I feel like I'm leveling up when I'm around them. Make a list. This is your real energy formula. What is giving you that? Level up energy and start putting more of that in your life. Consciously plan it. Put it around you so that you grow. If you don't have that around you and you're just letting things come in by happenstance, oh, this person's kind of toxic, and this person's pretty cool. And this thing's kind of a crappy food, but I'm going to eat it anyway, and, well, that's good food every now and then. If that's the way you're living your life, you will never have the life that you're desiring. You have to have intention. You have to choose what's coming in. And if you're going to choose what's coming in and what you're putting out, have it be what's leveling you up in your. In your pentagon. We can kind of blend our two concepts together.

The.

The energy pentagon.

The energy Pentagon.

So it's. It's a conscious choice. Who are you? Like, if you're the product of the five people that you put around you, who are you putting around you? Think about the vibrational impact of God.

Or.

I love you. How different do those feel? And you're letting those both in sometimes. What if you let in a lot of I love you or let's go play? Instead of this other draining removal of energy, Be conscious of what you're allowing into your field. Be very conscious, and everything can shift. If you start consciously choosing those things, I guarantee you in the next 90 days, your life will look way different.

Thanks for the formula. Thanks for being my guest again, man. I look forward to future conversations.

Love you.

Love you too, bro. All right, y', all, that's worthy of sharing. So if you know somebody who's struggling with some of these concepts, please share it with them. It's so interesting. Like, people will write all the time and they'll say, I heard so and so, and I did this thing, and now my life is actually different. And I think it's interesting. Our minds like to complicate things, like, change is hard and all these negative vibrations. This isn't pseudo advice. This is real, practical advice. Share this podcast, because when you share it, you believe that your share will actually impact someone else. In a loving way. What are we doing here if we're not doing that? So, from my heart to yours, thank you for being here, man.

Thank you. And part of having the right energy come in is putting the right energy out.

It could be as simple as, like, sharing a glass of water, giving somebody a drink update, sharing a podcast. It's in the sharing that we actually receive. It's such a paradox.

Be the change you want to see in the world.

Done. All right.

All right, y'. All.

We'll talk to you soon. We're wishing you love and wellness, peace.