Your Pain Has a Pattern… And Astrology Reveals It All (Don’t Ignore This Sign)

So what is the hardest lesson on planet Earth according to astrology? Marriage, partnership, friendships, business partners and commitments. That's all karma. Those are people you had some agreement with to come in and learn from. This is not a random order.

Deborah Silverman is an astrologer, psychotherapist, and author of I Don't Believe in Astrology. The patterns in astrology are irrefutable. Have you noticed over time that you see the same pain show up in the same patterns in the same astrological signs?

Pattern recognition is what astrology is about. And the whole system is based on geometry. And sacred geometry is pattern recognition. There are these repetitive patterns that come on and on and on.

Is that what drove you to being a licensed therapist?

Every session I've ever done as a therapist for all those years, the chart was in front of me. Psychology will be a dinosaur science until it includes astrology. Totally. Relying on astrology as the backdrop has given me the gift of shortcutting. If you know the karmic agreement that someone came with that you could give them permission to be up because the chart screams that. And then to find the medicine, like, duh. I don't know why we left it behind, tell you the truth.

So do you think that we choose our pain way before we come here? The patterns in astrology are irrefutable. Have you noticed over time that you see the same pain show up in the same patterns in the same astrological signs? And if so, how?

Great question. And that's why I have the book. Cause I went through so many sessions with people and watched as you described. Pattern recognition is what astrology's about. And the whole system is based on geometry. And sacred geometry is pattern recognition. There are these repetitive patterns that come on and on and on. It makes me laugh because we think we're so special and we think our pain is so unique. And it is true that the human condition shows up in the chart in a storyline that is so specific to your childhood and your parents and your personality. And yet it's a universal song. Oi, what happened to you? I'm so sorry. And then as an astrologer, the gift is taking it from the pain body to the astrologer's angle, which is come up off the planet and look back and say, what's it like being human? What is that pain for? Well, how did we sign up for this crazy story? Was I on drugs? Like, was I in an altered state that I came down here with this crazy, consistent to your point, pattern of pain in every human and the answer is yes. I wasn't on drugs. But I volunteered. And I volunteered because I'm so fascinated.

It's a fascinating world you play in. I'm learning all about it. So do you think that we choose our pain way before we come here?

You know, I hate that thought, that we chose our parents. Because I have the Jewish. These Jewish parents. Yeah, if I chose them, I definitely was on drugs. So it wasn't like if they said to me, you're gonna be Jewish and you're gonna be born in Detroit, and here's what you had as options. I would have been like, that's it. So it wasn't that I picked them. There was an assignment that comes with karma, and it comes in the Akashic records. And you come with an assignment to learn or to do something, and you have to remember it. And that's what astrology's for. It's like the alarm clock goes off and I say to you, your Saturn's in Virgo. You promise to be a perfectionist. You promise to worry a little bit, and now if you mast, that you realize, oh, it's such a sincere interest to get it right. And it's such a deep desire to serve. And it changes from, ew, I hate that part of myself, to what a noble effort you have to want to help us.

The pain isn't random. The pain has a true purpose to it. But when we're in the pain, it's like, fuck, how do we get out of it? But sitting in it. And then I'd love for you to layer the wisdom the true. You called it on a call once. You said, it's airtight science. What is the airtight science about us sitting in the pain? Cause there's such a gift there. There's such a beautiful gift.

Well, this formula's just shown up in the most recent times. Like our society now, your generation know how to stay in the pain and process. I was not told that. I was told to suppress it, to never tell anyone, to hold it in, to let my body somaticize, let the pain take over. This is a brand new model that you guys brought to us. Sit in the pain, trust that it's there for a reason. It's like a mother giving birth. Would you tell her to stop being in pain? It's the stupidest conversation. She has to move through that to get to the miracle. So it's only newly discovered for so many generations. It was a type upper lip, and it was trying to pretend like you're normal. And Was acting like everybody else and doing the homogenized version of human condition. And now the Aquarian Age is here, and it's like, just be yourself.

What is the Aquarian Age? So you're talking to a newbie here, and maybe people are watching, viewing for the very first time. Your book is perfect. Perfect. I don't believe in astrology. What a great hook. How did this come to you before you answered?

Because everybody kept saying it to me.

It was pissing me off that they just don't believe.

You know how long I've been doing this? It's almost 50 years. And how many times I heard people say, I don't believe in astrology. And I was like, really? Let me tell you, if you don't know something, let me give you some information that might whet your appetite. Why has it been the oldest science on Earth? How has it been 4,000 years ago? We have records of the hieroglyphics. Why is it that your grandmother knew what sign she was? How have we talked about this since the beginning of time? Oh, there's wisdom in the back room. Time's up. And now I got to be the alarm clock.

It's so good. Okay, so before you answer the next question, Carl Jung, which, for me has impacted my life in so many ways, and I haven't even gone as deep as I want to go yet. He said, astrology represents the summation of all the psychological knowledge of antiquity. Do you resonate with that?

I wrote that quote in my book. Hello. He also said, psychology will be a dinosaur science until it includes astrology. What we just did, the psychology of me having a master's in clinical psychology but totally relying on astrology as the backdrop has given me the gift of shortcutting. Look what just happened. I was able to assess what the pattern was very quickly, and that's because I've looked at a lot of charts.

He used to do the readings for his clients, so he would create birth charts for his patients, and he had the charts in his hand, Believing that you couldn't fully heal someone without knowing their cosmic blueprint.

Oh, my God, you're singing my song. Every session I've ever done as a therapist for all those years, the chart was in front of me. I mean, it only makes sense that if, you know, the karmic agreement that someone came with that you could give them permission to be fucked up, because the chart screams that. And then to find the medicine, like, duh, I don't know why we left it behind. Tell you the truth, why do you think we did? I knew you were gonna ask that.

Well, I'm just curious.

It's a religious thing. The religious order did not want people self consumed with power. So they took the power away that you would be able to assess yourself and gave you the guilt trip that everything you're doing was wrong. Astrology is quite the opposite. It's saying no, you can have a personality type that has problems, you can have a psychology that's really difficult. But all of that was the that you signed at the beginning. And once you understand that, you accept your fate. I call it falling in love with your faith. Shai Singh Falling in love with your fate. Falling in love with your fate. Falling. Falling. Falling. Falling. Falling in love with your fate. The minute you accept what you were handed, it becomes magic. It's the funniest thing. It's funny that we don't know it. So the church took away the power of the individual having the resource to give their own healing. And they gave them the guilt to that everything they were doing was wrong with all the shoulds and all the commandments. Not to say that that's not useful, but the imposing of your power, your intuition, your knowing is not acceptable, is what put us in the situation we're in.

Yeah, the knowing is the big thing. It's the knowing like part of your process. The big part that I got is just remembering how amazing things are. And then all the other stories we fabricate, let's be honest, I do it, we fabricate these stories.

It's called MSU making up.

We've all attended this university. So then you spoke of the age of Aquarius. Like, what is that for somebody that doesn't know anything about.

So the last 21 goes in 2100 year cycles. When Christ was here was the age of Pisces. He entered that and it was follow the leader. So Pisces was the Christian model or the Jewish model, or the Muslim model was. We're going to give you a book and you'll get these instructions and you'll follow. And if you don't follow, we'll banish you. You won't be part of our community. You won't have any food, you won't have any family, you can't live in our town. So it was a really strong adherence to a set of values and rules and codes that were brought to us by religion. That was the Piscean age. Pisces loves sacred magic ceremonies. They love having incense burning, they love doing magical mushrooms as they're called. But that wasn't introduced by the religious order. And then came the Aquarian age entering. From my point of view, in the 60s, we don't know when it churns. But suddenly in the last. Let's say it's just beginning. We're only at the very entrance. And that was, do not follow. Do not go to church. Do not listen to what other people tell you. You can be yourself, whatever religion, whatever sexuality, whatever thought process. You don't have to get married. You don't have to have kids. You can have kids through a tube. I mean, there's a million Aquarian options now that were not in place during the Piscean age. So now we're in the free fall. The old structures that we counted on to give us right and wrong aren't here. So the Aquarian age is freedom. But when you have too much freedom, it starts to feel disorienting. Like what's right and wrong? And how do I feel safe? And where do I get safety and security? As we had in the olden days, when you knew what the religious order told you to do and what to wear and how to dress. The whole thing was completely. It was like a follow the leader in a homogenized experience. Now we're in the chunky part where everything goes. We have the weirdest reality we live in. We're inside of a computer right now. People are like, what is happening? Cyberspace is the Aquarian age. AI is the Aquarian age. ET is the Aquarian age. These are the new entrances of us realizing telepathy is real. Like there's an alternate reality that is not stuck by the religious order and the symptoms of our grandparents. So it's kind of exciting.

It's exciting. Jesus was part of the Piscean age.

He was the fish. Remember? There was fish everywhere. Pisces is fish.

Do you feel like Jesus was also had the momentum of astrology behind him.

He was found by a star. Hello. Why do people forget this? Those wise men were astrologers. They predicted his presence. They knew where to find him. Isn't that magic? So of course, in the Torah and every religious order, there was astrologers in the back room. But they weren't allowed to come out. And they were never allowed to be women. It was only men that were allowed in the sacred temples of the astrology's mysteries. Cause it was so mathematical. And they determined that women didn't have that capacity. We change that. I have a school that's all women. I have a million. I have 8,000 students have come through my school. 98% are women studying astrology. Wow.

Why do you think that is? Is it making up for lost time?

Yes, it's. Time's up. Women are incredibly. It's so bizarre. This is the Aquarian age. It's no longer being run by men. So there's this. First, there's this polarity that happens, and then we come back into the middle, and that means everyone's included and we're past the polarity of genders. And that will be the Aquarian age, when we actually just see each other eye to eye and we're done with the construct of polarity. That's going to change.

How do you think it's gonna change so that we can love each other more?

Well, we're seeing it right now. This is the whole. There's a polarity so strong in our planet right now between Republicans and Democrats, between those that believe and those that don't, the New Age people and the old, there's such a strong. And that is going to create so much tension. Civil war. There's so much tension that it's going to finally pop. And we're going to show up with the people who love and are past the duality and just look into each other's eyes and know that if an alien arrived, why would we separate ourselves? We're one species, and there's so many more. And how dare we think we're the only ones? That is the funniest thing I've ever. If we're the only ones. Come on. Humans are not the most evolved species. Please tell me that's true.

Well, we're doing our best.

Thank you.

With the level of consciousness that we have.

I love that.

I love the way you got into astrology. And even you said, I wrote the book because it had been decades. And somebody said, you need to write this book. But you resisted it. Why did you resist it so much?

I think just my ego was like, how much more work do I have to do? And I made a plan. I made an agreement. And I said to myself in my prayer, because I strongly believe in prayer. And I said, if it's fun and it's not heavy lifting, I'll do it. And then somebody showed up in my world who had four planets in Aquarius. She was a genius. She took all my classes. She had written 13 New York Times bestsellers as a ghostwriter. So she and I started dancing together. And she was fun and she was funny, and she did all the heavy lifting, and it became a party but the entrance, when the mind first gets a new idea and it looks like a big mountain and you're 70,000 years old, you're like, we're gonna walk up that mountain. And then I realized, well, I could ask for help, and I got help.

Wow. Okay. So the momentum started really young. Your dad was in the Jewish Mafia, which I think is fascinating.

Are you allowed to tell everybody that we can see, look who's on the walls.

That's okay. I think he was connected to the Mafia.

Frank Sinatra, for sure. Of course he was in Las Vegas.

How did that understanding or lesson or contract that you signed up to?

Talk about it often, but I love that you brought it up.

How did that fuel who you are?

You know, my father was one of my most primary, significant contributors to who I am. He was a very old soul. He was not what he appeared. I could see through the veil. I could see that he wasn't who everyone thought he was. And we had this deep heart connection. And I learned loyalty from those men, and I learned friendship. And when he died and I sat to be the person that spoke, and all the men were in the front row that were his best friends to the Mafia. They all had tears running down their eyes. They knew that my dad and I had that connection and that I knew who he really was. So the veneer of who people are, what we think they are on the outside, and who they are on the inside. He gave me such a gift. He ended up getting caught. He was in a conspiracy. There was a bunch of guys that did a crime. His best friend was the one non Jewish that he kind of brought into it. His name was Wayne. And when the FBI came to Wayne. Cause he had no track record. He had no history. My father had been in prison more than once. They came to him and they said, if you tell us everything, you don't have to go to jail. He then apparently told them, and he didn't go to jail. My dad went to jail, came back out, and Wayne came to our house, knocked on the door. I was like, what? And he came in. My dad was so happy to see him. My mom spit at him. She was like, don't you let him in the house. And after they were together, I said, dad, how did that happen? How are you still friends with Wayne? And he said, what you don't know is he came to me when the FBI came and he said what was going to happen. And he asked me what to do. And I said to him, you do what you think is right. Nothing's going to touch our friendship.

Wow.

I am not here to judge you and you're not here to judge me. What a teaching. I learned non judgment that what appears to be on the outside is not what's happening on the inside. And I really got humbled in the presence of a being who to this moment, he's since passed. I always feel him around me. I wear this watch that he gave me when I was a teenager. I. I keep him so close to me because I learned through his example that what you think is on the outside is not what's happening on the inside. So don't judge now. That's wisdom.

What a gift. And what a character he played in theater.

Oh, yeah, he was such a character. He had such a funny personality. I could do a lot of milk stories, but we'll leave that out.

So, JP Morgan, it's interesting because your father was playing a role where it was like, you know, money and the way he played it. But then most of us, we're disconnected from money. I had a lot of money wounds when I grew up.

Like Taurus.

Yeah, like, rich people are bad. And I heard this from my parents. God loved them. Right? They did the best they could. Money doesn't grow on trees. Rich people are evil. And there's a massive money wound in the world. But this is really interesting with astrology. JP Morgan said that millionaires look at the stars, but billionaires study astrology. I find that fascinating. That J.P. morgan, one of the biggest tycoons ever, is publicly quoted as practicing astrology. What do you make of that?

Well, it's just the truth. It's kind of the secret code. I don't know what's made it so separate, but this book that I just wrote is an entrance that let the mind begin to consider that there's a design God said. Einstein said, God is not playing with dice. This is not a random order. Who you sleep next to, who you don't sleep next to, who your mother was, what you do for. For a job, what your financial relationship is with money, these are all put in place by a karmic agreement. Now, whether or not you can remember it, whether or not you like it, whether or not you agree with what you signed up for, it doesn't matter because life always wins. So astrology gives you the gift of accepting. Oh, this is my. It's just like what we saw with your wife today. Some people's charts scream, you're going to learn the hard way. And then they get really polished and they get really wise. That's what happened to my dad. Hard chart. Real wisdom came out of it. Some people get these. Really? You have an easier chart. There's an energy, your effortless grand trine and fire. You have. You have this amazing access to being a full moon in Scorpio. Deep, deep. So you came with an easier track at the same time. Whether it's easy or hard, there's always the free will button. Will I choose to wake up inside the dream Easier for the people that aren't challenged just to say the hard charts are better because they instigate, they create enough tension. The easier charts take discipline. And that's the sign of an old soul. If someone has discipline and most people don't, I don't know where the camera is. Where are all those people? Yeah. Most people on this planet say to me when I ask, because I do a lot of research on people, I don't have discipline. Well, that's just the difference between an old soul. Who knows that? Oh. The formula down here is consistency, commitment, and follow through. They call it Earth for a reason. The blue. The planet's blue. It shouldn't have been called Earth. But the real exercise down here is can you do consistency and follow through? And you specialize in that.

The 4e process was so profound. I. We just went through it, y'.

All.

So maybe we'll put some clips in the podcast. The air element seems to be what washes away a lot of wisdom. Also the water. And then there's the grounding from the earth. And then there was one more, the fire. Right. So can you talk about how that even came through for you? Was it like this amalgamation in your career? Or one day you were just like, I got it.

I studied at a very young age with the group called the Emissaries. They're since gone. And the original man that brought it to Earth was a channeler. He was a triple Pisces. And he talked about these four elements. I was very young when I heard it. It landed because it was part of my mission. I wrote a book called the Missing Element that did really well. You guys have to go read it. You're gonna love it. I'm gonna send it to you. Cause it's all about the 4e process. And seeing that, what described for me my success was that I learned how to do all four elements. I didn't real. I came to it almost by mistake. I learned the four elements through that original source. I then began to study it and apply it in my own personal life. And as the years Went by. I wasn't aging, and I was getting more excited about life. And I was doing a breaking of the model that I was brought up in as a good Jewish girl. Somehow I did not resemble the people that I grew up with. And I know it was because of my relationship with the four elements. And get this. So I just wrote a new book about the tarot. In the tarot deck, the very first card is. The zero card is the fool. You come onto this planet like a goofball. Like, why would you come into a planet where you have no instructions? You have the weirdest family. You don't know what you're doing there, and you don't even know what your chart is.

Why would I sign up for this?

Exactly. The fool. Poof. And the first stop, number one card is the magician. And all the decks since the 15th century. And on the table of the magician are the four elements in all the tro decks across time. And that was the first entrance of how you can master this plane of existence. 4e I developed, which is something I teach people to assist people to realize that the code is written in doing all four elements. It's kind of fun. It's like the simplest. I always feel like I am the canary that ate the. How does that go?

Canary in the coal mine.

No, something makes me happy, and I don't know what it is. The canary. They like the cat.

Okay.

It's disgusting. Cat that ate the canary.

All right, all right.

I'm a little funny, you guys. Anyways, I feel like I broke the code by practicing those four elements, which gave me this little smile that makes me feel like if you do what the four elements, as you saw, give you access and you master all four, which you've done. A great communicator. This podcast gets everybody on the edge of their seat. An emotional body that knows how to be still. Full moon in Scorpio and go deep. A practical side that is really into the details and means, what he means. And then their fire, the excitement, the enthusiasm, your physical body and your mastery. See, this is the clue of an evolved soul right there, in case you're wondering. And the symptom of that is the world works. And the source of that is you study, you learn these simple principles. And that's basically my life's work. The four elements and the stars.

Yeah. The overlay is so fascinating. The way that the astrological lines, you're able to look at the chart and see the degrees. And there's a real science to this that I think Is so true. Probably like why you named the book. I don't believe we're in this intellectual world where everybody has to have exact proof and they have to see it with their eyes and understand it with their mind. But everything we just went through was all in the body, it was all in the heart. And this is the war between the illusionary war between science and spirituality. What do you make of that?

Water is the most important element. If the emotional body can be still, if I can trust. Because the next card after the magician is the high priestess who says, can you guys stop for a minute and remember why you're here? If we don't start our day with a prayer or a meditation, or if we don't remember why we're here because we lost our spiritual connection, because it was religion and it was old or it's contrived and people pretend they're new age. And I ask them straight up, do you meditate? And they go, no. I mean, we all hear about it, but do we actually do it? And this is the real power of all of my work is the first element is water and the ability to actually have faith that there is a design. It's such a great feeling when you know that this planet is organized by a higher intelligence. And astrology is proof of that. And as Einstein said, God's not playing with dice. So once that emotional body soothes and it's soft and there's comfort there, then the rest of the system goes so smooth. Nobody ever tells you that that's why we drink clean water. That's why everybody's so obsessed right now with water. It is the element that will determine whether or not you'll be at peace.

One of the codes you shared with us is that you were drinking the funny water before everybody else your age. Was the deuterium depleted water. When did you start to really focus on your physical body? And did that manifest in ways that your astrology already knew in some way?

That's such a great question. At a very young age, I stopped eating meat and I didn't know why.

And you were seven?

Yes. I didn't know why. My parents didn't know why and I didn't understand. Then at a very young age, I was just leaving high school, I realized that I kept going because I have a dairy allergic thing, but I didn't know, so I dropped dairy. Then I started figuring out that if I exercise, I have a very strong intuition. I never had a drink Till I was 40 years old because when I drank it first of all, it tasted terrible. Second of all, I watched all my friends and I was like, they're acting weird. And then I just waited until it was the right time. And I did, actually. Now I love it once in a while, but I've always had. That was the sign of my strong conviction in my body. I was a dancer the first half of my life and everything was about trusting my instinct and not stepping over it. And it got me in trouble. I was saying that to your wife. I never went to a doctor when I was pregnant. I had at home birth in the water and I defied. I just never. And I can't explain it. Tell the truth and it's in my chart. I have a very strong true north and I will not step over it.

No matter what the permission that's granted. It seems like for yourself at a young age, when did you start to get the. This is a very Taurean question, very mental question. When did you start to get the scientific validation of astrology based on what you already felt was true?

It was because every single reading that I did, because I have Taurus in me, so I'm very practical, there wasn't a reading that I did that didn't come out with the person going, well, you know me better than I do. And because it kept on being consistent, I came in as a skeptic. And there was not one session where the person didn't say, yes, that was the year I started my job. Yes, that was the year I met my wife. It was so astounding that I didn't need science. I had a very solid base of experience because I learned from experience. And that's what's given me so much.

Confidence as a licensed therapist. You felt this pull where you couldn't really use astrology in the clinical way.

I had to pretend.

How did that work out?

Well, I never didn't really use a Tell the truth.

Oh, you did.

Well, I didn't tell everybody.

It was in the background.

Yeah, I had the very entrance. I did start with graduate school and acting normal and what to the supervisor and said, I want to go do research on chronic mental patients in astrology. And she was like, I don't know what you just said, but we're not doing that. I was like, yes, this is my character. I was like, oh, yes, I am. And I did. And I worked in a halfway house with chronic mental patients and I had all their charts and I was actually teaching them astrology. This is where I sometimes feel self conscious because my character has such A strong definition to itself. Like, I've always been that way since I was young. And I think it was my dad. I think it was the quality of his connection with me that he really saw me. Even though we never hugged, he didn't tell me he loved me. It was a vibrational acknowledgment that's with me, makes me want to cry. That's with me to this moment that a being saw me and he loved me. And that confidence got into my system. So when people said to me, you can't do. You're not going to use astrology, I was like, oh, yes, I am. And I never took no for an answer. And I know that's peculiar, but look at the reward and look at my character, and it's left me alone. I mean, I'm single. It's been a really hard version because my character is so committed to what I know to be true. It's hard for me to pretend. It's hard for me to not speak to the unspeakable and to say shit that I'm not supposed to say. It's endearing. At the same time, it's created a separation, and I accept that now at this age, as I move towards 70, I realize that one of the gifts of being an elder is you no longer seek other people's approval. Being alone is delightful, and there's an internal world that's become magic for me. So it's surprised I was a codependent my whole life. I needed Libra Rising. I was so dependent on people like me, like me, like me. Even though I was strange or eccentric is a better word. And as the years have gone by, it's become, this is the gift of aging. You don't care anymore.

Is that part and parcel what drove you to being a licensed therapist? That internal war?

At the beginning, it was my family, the dysfunctional Jewish family that I grew up in. I was so mystified by why they hurt themselves and why they were so mean to each other. I was so confused, I couldn't understand. So that's what brought me to go get the master's degree. And then eventually astrology softened. My real quest was spiritually to ask, what are we doing here? Like, what's the point of this whole exercise? I couldn't stop asking that question.

Wow, I'm right there with you. My first thought I can ever remember when I was a little boy was, how do I live my life? Well, because you adults and your taxes and you're arguing like, none of this Makes sense to a part of me. Did you find that to be true?

This is the old soul thing. Yes, of course. My mom said to me, I used to say to her at breakfast, tell me what I'm doing here. And then she turned to me and she'd say, eat your cereal and stop asking. I drove her crazy. It's the old souls. And people have children. Some of you have children like this. They have reincarnated. You reincarnated from a memory. And you were like, wait, we're not going to do this again. I mean, that's crazy what you guys are doing.

Wow. Okay. So interesting. There's the logos that talks about the river leaf, and we all drink from the river of forgetfulness. Do you resonate with that theory at all?

100%. This is the most important thing. There's a Kali Uga. Have you heard of that term? So in the Hindus, they have. The Hindus have large cycles, like, we have 2100. The Aquarian and the Piscean. They have the kaliuga, which is 26,000 years. And we're at the very end right now, and it's called the Age of Forgetting. And we're just entering the Golden Age. But we're in this threshold. We're in this very thin threshold between worlds where we're gonna be done with this old system that is so painful that our parents. You are heralding in and your children an entirely new way of being in the meantime. It's painful, the transition. Cause we're so confused. Unfortunately, they never sent us the memoir. This is the end of an era. Don't worry. Everything's okay.

Wow. Okay. So can you provide clarity on the lens of the sun, the moon, and the rising? Because I hear about these from Kerri, Michelle. I've been fully confused.

Wait, did we just leave behind the biggest transition on the planet? We're going to the sun, moon, and rising.

We are. Because I don't know if that really landed for people. Like, it's literally like taking a book and closing it. But then the clarity comes from the way that you see it, the lens that you see it. If you want to go deeper into.

All I'm going to say is the simple version of that particular comment is, we are in a birthing canal as a human race, and we're not prepared with enough midwives in the room to say, don't worry. So I want to say to everyone, we're in a transition. We're at the end of an era. Every single system, from the Mayans to the Kali Yuga to the astrology system. Everyone's screaming the same thing. We're at the end of an era, and it's worthy of us to stop and realize, oh, it's okay. And from that, it's all I want to do, is give the gift, the gift of the balm of the elder, saying to you, we've seen this all before, and it will pass. And it is a very happy ending.

What's the ending?

It's a transition to a whole new species. And I can't put it into words. I can't really tell you, except that I know there'll come a time when all the things you love the most, deep conversations, healthy food, being fair, sharing our money, living in harmony, understanding what it is to be respectful and have justice. This that will be coming.

It sounds like a world I'd love to play in.

I love that you're making it. You're setting the stage. That's why we're on the podcast.

Can we go to my question about the lens, please? Okay. The reason I'm asking that is because I like to gather facts so that I can make sense of things Right.

Said Virgo rising.

I really do. And so Carrie talks about the sun and the moon, the rising all the time. And I listen and I'm like, I don't get it. So can you give us that clarity?

That's so sweet. So the sun, the life giving force 93 million miles away, the most influential energetic to every plant, every flower, what you wore today, everything is based on that sun. It gives us our life force, where it was when you were born as a Taurus describes your life force, the primary ego structure of your personality type. When you dive into the book and you read Taurus, you're gonna laugh because you're so Taurus.

Oh, I got it.

No, no, no, no, no. Of course he did.

It's right here. Taurus, stop and smell the flowers. That's what I do with Nova.

I love that you just did that.

I bookmarked it.

And everyone's gonna do that. They're gonna read the book and they're gonna look for their sun sign. Good job. So Taurus says, stop and smell the flowers. You learn about your ego structure. Go slow, be calm, be focused. The moon describes the inner world at night, what's going on in the unconscious, the part of us that lives in the depths. You were born under a full moon, so that's auspicious. It only happens once a month. It's a sign of a really big energetic. The whole world Wakes up in a full moon, harder to sleep, the waters rise, crime races. It's a real thing. You were born under a very strong, emotional, intuitive moon where you're so. I just want to swear. You're so fucking Scorpio. You pierce people. Why is this interview so good? Why are you so good at this? You take your focus and you stay the whole. That's very Scorpio. That's the moon in Scorpio. Your emotional temperament, the inner world, the dark world, has a depth to it that can't tolerate mediocrity and will stay the course no matter what. And then the third is the rising sign, this is in the book, is your soul. It's called the ascendant. It's the higher self. It's what you're aiming for. And yours is Virgo, which is the selfless server who loves to help people more than anything else. At the worst, they criticize themselves and feel like they're never getting it right. And they worry. They get nervous. At their best, they remember, oh, wait a minute. I'm nervous because I really want to do a good job. I can relax. I always do a good job.

Yeah.

So that's the rising sign, is your soul, your rising. The moon is your inner world at night, your emotional temperament. And the sun is your life giving force. It's the part that you will never, ever get rid of. Ha ha. You're a Taurus, and I'm a Gemini, in case you were wondering.

So we all have these proclivities based on our sun, our moon, and our rising that are really impossible to overcome. And you even said that my fear is a gift, which was so counterintuitive. I'm like, what is she talking about? Why is my fear a gift?

Because you're born under a full moon in Scorpio and they scare themselves. It gives you the awareness of how to stay on edge, how to be present, how to make sure you don't miss anything. You're the guy that we would want in crisis. You know exactly how to handle intensity. So it creates a little bit of edginess because you're on. Your awareness is on. And you're paying attention to where the negativity is. You've got like a lie detector test. So on one hand, what a great detective, what a seer. On the other hand, it's a little scary. It's the doctor. It's the energy of a surgeon. We come in and we say everything that's wrong. And you're like, I'll go. It I'll cut that. Don't you worry. I'm here. So it creates, like, a what does? The Doctor. Every single day. Here's what's wrong. You're here to help us figure out how to take off whatever's wrong. And that's what you're teaching us on your podcast and your supplements and your biohacking. Thank you.

Oh, you're welcome. The. The proclivity we have, it doesn't have to be a death sentence. Like, they can be so good.

Oh, there's high road and low road in the book.

Okay.

Everything has a high road and low road. So the low road of Scorpios. They're miserable. They go very dark and they don't laugh. They're heavy. The high road is they're piercing and they're poignant, and they will talk about death and fear and sex, like, fearlessly. High road, low road, low road of Taurus. Insecure, a little scared, feels vulnerable, and nobody really likes me. High road of Taurus, the Buddha. I know exactly how to stay still. I'm not going to impress you. I don't need to. My ego's quiet.

Does each sign have a high and a low, or are there any common threads that.

All of them have a high and low, and they're all.

They're all individuals. What's your high road?

Well, my high road is a channel. You may have noticed. I have the gift of the gab.

Yes.

And my low road is a dipstick. You know, just superficial and dippy and watching social media and being entertained by TikTok.

Yes. It's interesting with me.

That was funny.

It's very funny. Look, these phones right now, in our end of the Piscean age, the beginning.

Of the mass weapons of distraction.

They're mass weapons of distraction. But there's. There's, like, people are watching this potentially on their phone right now. So there's a gift in every what is perceived, evil or bad.

It's always true down here. It's a dualistic reality. The sun and the moon, the night and the day, the men and the women, goes on and on and on.

What's been the hardest paradox for you in your life to see is actually love and of service.

What's been the hardest paradox for me to see? I have a really hard time with this existence. I can't stand that people are hungry. I don't get it. I don't know why there's any children being violated. I can't even talk about it. So it's not this planet Is not easy for me. Some people have so much fun here. And I have definitely done a perfect recipe with a little spice of fun because I live half the time in Hawaii. And so I live in a very ecstatic state. But it never leaves my awareness that this place has been. And it hurts me.

Well, I told you I wasn't going to ask this, but now's the perfect time to ask the two worlds. This is like big question for me of, like, how do I hold my mom and her process of bipolar, and how do I also know that life is good and I'm here to serve? How do you hold those two worlds of knowing there's hunger and then knowing what you're here to do?

It's such a great question. We said that earlier.

I said I wasn't going to ask it.

Okay. It's the most important question. How do you live in two world World? There's dimensions here behind the veil, and there's dimensions here at the physical plane. I think the simplest answer for me is doing my practice, my spiritual practice, which is to disengage at times, to go into my observer, to go into my meditation and drop the story. And that's why sacred medicine are here, and that's why meditation and why yoga and why healing bowls and, you know, essential oils. All these things remind us. Oh, oh, it's so sweet when I find that still place in the middle. And it's a practice and I do it every day. And I've gotten better as I've gotten older. I did not come this way. I was a wreck. I was an emotional wreck because it hurt me so much. This place hurt me. I couldn't figure out where the middle was. And eventually, as time has gone by, I've really made a practice of sitting in the middle.

Last night at your book party, you said this amazing phrase and the whole room went. You said observer on. I love this. We've heard Eckhart Tolle be like, okay, well, you know, be the observer. Your thoughts. Personally, I just kind of get. It's not knock on him. I'm just like, I can't listen to him. I'll go to bed, right? Like, it just makes me sleepy. Of course he has divine wisdom. When did observer on really turn on for you? When was that a real thing?

That's a great question. I was very young. I was in my 20s. I read a book by Ospensky. It's a book about Gurdjieff, an ancient teacher from the early 1900s in Russia. And he taught Taught the skill of how to be in your day while you're cutting the tomatoes and the cucumbers and keep your awareness. He called it the work to be watching yourself in the most mundane of activities. And I started practicing it and then I started practicing it and then I kept practicing it and all of a sudden I realized in the middle of a fight, when the drama was ensuing and it was getting really escalated, I was getting really pissed. I could after it was over, not during it. Because I don't want you to bypass. Once I finished, my observer would kick in and I'd go, whoa, you got a little reactive there. What did you just say to that person? And it gave me pause. So it really honestly started at a very young age. I understand now it's a metaphysical principle that was in place. It's an esoteric law and it really works. It requires, I do say it out loud. Observer. I literally by myself in traffic, in traffic, when I'm having a really difficult thought process and I'm in a loop, I catch myself going in a circle and I go, what are you doing, Deb? Observer on. And it makes me laugh because it sounds like a command position from some space, like Star Trek or something.

A game being activated.

Yes. But it actually really works and I encourage all of you to do it. The last chapter of my book is called the 13 sign and that is the observer. Where it's not criticizing you. It's different than the critic. It's not saying something critical or assessing you or narrating you, is just standing still and saying, oh, you look like you're upset. And then I always smile because it's kind of like I'm in a movie and I'm in the audience. You know when I started practicing it at the movies, when we beat a really scary scene, I did this to myself. I said, turn around. And I started looking at the audience. And I realized when I get captured by an emotional experience, you're completely single eyed. If I can take a breath and turn my awareness on and realize I'm in a movie theater and they've totally captured me and I'm totally convinced and I'm locked down in the group think if I can start stepping aside and taking a breath now, it's not good to do when you're making love. That's not a good time. You don't want to have your observer on. That's ridiculous.

That would not work out. Observer on.

No, no, no.

She's like, what?

No, it just interrupts everything but the quality of but being in the middle of a fight, if you can, the best is when you can feel as a mother. I felt this because I raised several kids. When you feel yourself getting really tense and you're about to lose it, and you know that you're going to scream because you're not in your awareness, that's when I would say, oh, mean mom is here. Somebody's got to stop. And I would literally say to the kids, mean mom is about to shake. Because my observer would kick in, and I could feel my nervous system activating. And I was about. And it became a powerful meaning for me to stay at equanimity. And it's something I really. And it doesn't mean that I don't get upset. I just want to say that because I still get upset. I've got Moon in Aries, and I'm an emotional creature, and I have this little secret code in my back pocket. Observer on. And then I just become aware, like, wow, that's a lot of drama, Deb.

It seems like. And you write about this in the book, the gremlins, AKA however you describe them, are really are all a universal nemesis for us. Like, we all struggle with the gremlins. It's a cool movie, by the way. Like, pretty fun movie. The ending of that movie is probably what you're gonna answer. When did you come up with the Gremlins? Was it from watching that movie? How did you.

It was from all the therapy sessions I've done. It's from sitting inside of your psyche and what you said today. Like, you're really advanced and you've done your work, but there's a lot of people that say the meanest things to themselves, and they come into a therapist's office and they reveal it. And I would, like, kind of like tease it. Like at the movies where they do your hair. I would give it to me. Give it to me. And people's negative self talk became fascinating to me. And then I found out that everyone does it. And in the middle of the night, the gremlins are nibbling and that they don't get paid, they work overtime, and they don't have your back. So I started to really focus on the medicine for the gremlins, which is awareness. Like, they're not going away no matter what. I mean, when you age, you look in the mirror and there's all the wrinkles, and then your boobs start falling down, and then men hair fall out. And then all these symptoms start to happen. The gremlins are like. And then you just go, excuse me, like I like the way I look. You leave me alone. Stop that. And I became the command position observer on get the gremlins out of here. And that is powerful. And this is psychology 101. This is not astrology. But the gremlins are specific to like your case as Virgo rising with Saturn. In Virgo, you could easily get mean to yourself if you weren't careful.

Oh, for sure.

And I'm sure young the comparisonitis really wanting to be different, not thinking you're perfect. That's a real low road of Virgo. And the high road is I'm doing the best I can. And by the way, I love working and I love serving and I always get it done. So there's medicine for gremlins that you can alter their negative trapdoors. And that's what the book, the whole first half of the book is about.

That are the gremlins in some way? The Native Americans call it wetiko or just, you know, negatively charged thought form. Is that essentially what a gremlin is? And it seems like the gremlins feed on fear.

Exactly, 100%. And that's the bad design of the human condition. I'm the first one to say this. The unconscious mind does not have your best interest. Your higher mind, your awareness, is in love with you. Your lower mind, who's eating fear for breakfast, lunch and dinner and knows all your weak spots, is gonna keep on provoking you until you read the book, until you turn your awareness on, until you wake up inside the dream. And then all of a sudden it's like, you mean there's a free will option? I can actually choose to live in a state of self love? That's radical. I didn't get trained that, but I am now practicing it and teaching it and I'm seeing the results. And I watch the people in my school, I have a school, and the husbands write me letters. This is going to happen after the wife's go through, after the woman goes through the levels one, two and three of our school. Their joy comes back, their self esteem comes back, their upbeat energy comes back. People get happy, they lose their depression. I get letters and gifts sent to me by the husbands because the gremlins nibble on women. You're supposed to look this way, you're supposed to be this person. You're supposed to be a better mom. You're supposed to take care of this. Like who's talking, who's feeding, who pays the gremlin. It's a natural unfortunate part of the human design that I wrote about as a design fault. Once you're aware of it, it becomes endearing because it becomes the way that you'll. It's like a trampoline. Like you use the gremlins, right up to the observer.

Sting worked with you. Did he have gremlins?

I spent a year and a half traveling the world with him. What an amazing being. Sting has revealed gremlins to me. Certainly he's human. And back to the word evolution. Why do we listen to him? Why do we stare at him? Why is he so captivating? Because his soul is revealed and he is a double libra. He has refinement, he has the expression of his music, his words, the poetry of his words. So this is a being just like you, who has evolved and came in and said to his mom, I want to be a musician. And the life lines of astrology, the destiny line, just like your destiny line, is super strong. There was no way you weren't going to be doing a podcast just like the next part of your life. There's no way you're going to get in the way of that. How comforting is it to know that the design of your lifetime is in full action, just the way Stiggs was? And yes, he has Saturn on the sun. He's a very old soul, and he is what he appears, only better. And yes, I'm sure the gremlins, you know, they nibble on everybody. Yeah, they're kind of non. They just have no discrepancy.

One of the things that I would love to get clarity on is there's different forms of astrology. There's the Vedic and then there's the one that you practice. Is there corollaries? Is there complete opposites of Vedic and is it Western that you practice?

I do, I do.

What are the differences?

It's a different. It's the same language. They have the same sign, they have the same planets. It's just a different system. How they detect where the planets are. Theirs is, in a way, scientifically more accurate. Ours is not. They work a lot with prediction. Ours is much more. Mine is much more personality assessment. What did your soul sign up for? What's your purpose? That's all I focus on. They're very good at prediction, very different systems. It's almost crazy how different they are at the same time. They're all the same language, so I always like to say about it. I love the Eastern astrology. I don't study it. Whichever one you choose, just dive deep, drill down, stay with it, stay with one process. Because when the people I meet who have been metaphysical shoppers and they know all about astrology, but they don't really, I'd say to them, come to my school and just give me six weeks to get you the basics so we can actually give you a foundation to stand on. And then you can can go on and do all the others. But there has to be a solid foundation.

There's so many things out there to know oneself. Enneagram, human design, astrology. It's almost like I've said this. A thousand gene keys. What if we could create one prism where everything was inside of you?

Well, that's astrology. Astrology is the basis of the gene keys of human design. All these systems are based on numerology. They're all based on astrology. Astrology is the mothership. And it's simple the way I teach it. The problem with astrology, everyone. I could never learn astrology. Are you kidding? I teach it at a fourth grade level. It's like potato chips. You can't stop eating them because once you realize you're Virgo rising and you're Saturn's in Virgo and your full moon in Scorpio and you're like, that explains everything. Then you just keep on going. Not everyone has an appetite for a lot of potato chips, but I do.

Who are the metaphysical shoppers you talked about?

You know, they just do a whole bunch of. They're always doing some kind of a journey and they're doing ceremony and they've got all the, the music on and they've got the little outfits and they smell like patchouli oil and they're, you know, and there's chomp.

There's plenty in Austin.

Yeah. And it's not to be judged. It's an entrance level. It's how we all began. I began there. I just know that what it really took for you and I, where we're similar, is that I drill down, I stay the course, I follow through. And that is the definition of success. It's an earthbound commitment. And not everybody has it this lifetime.

But you and I did the metaphysical shopping. I think I did for a while.

I did it.

I definitely did it. Like landmark and different conferences. And I was like, what are they all saying? Like, what's the through line in all of this stuff? You said that the ultimate prism is astrology. I'd love to go a little deeper into that. Why is it the ultimate prism?

It's because until you understand who you are, until you're really comfortable in your skin. Until you're using your authentic gifts. Don't go anywhere else. Start home. Know thyself was on the oracles in Greece. This was on the very front. You can't go into metaphysics without starting with the self. And the self comes through a chart. I mean, it seems so obvious and then you don't have to spend a lot of time there. Not everyone's built to go drill down, but they definitely need to understand their sun, moon and rising and what their life lesson is, their Saturn. It's all in the book. The simplest beginning as a beginner, beginner or even advanced. I specialize in speaking English. I like to make. That's what I do. Why is that funny?

Oh, because there's a lot of woo woo bullshit out there. There's a lot of jargon, esoteric verbiage and I'm just like, this is word salad.

None of it's hidden. I can't track it. Yeah. So my Mercury's in Taurus and I speak very simply and very practical. And that's why the book is, I hope, going to touch a lot of people.

Oh, I trust that it will. I mean, look at the impact in the room last night. You're able to, you hold a really significant space. I think I gave you this reflection when you were signing my book. I said, you know, you really rest in peace and you speak wisdom and then everybody can feel the truth and that can't be faked. You can pretend for a while, but eventually you'll be found out. Especially with social media, you know, I.

Think it is is like you, I was starving to understand I wasn't going to do this lifetime and do superficial. I really wanted to know, like, what am I doing here? And I really did. The practices, like I really do practice every day. The meditation, taking off my shoes, drinking that deuterium depleted, taking all the supplements that I know work for my body. I really do consistently. I use an electric bike. I don't use a car. Wherever I live, I'm only on an electric bike. I sleep outside, I have no windows. I really give myself over to this practical world and I pray, I desperately pray. And I think they're annoyed by me. They're like her again, she's asked, but it's made me real. I wonder sometimes I've asked myself this question, why is this book being so popular and why do people show up in the room? And the answer I've given myself because I have an innocence about my ego. Like I don't know why they're all looking at me. And I realize it's because of my authenticity. And that came directly from astrology. Like, I'm simply being my chart. And I know it like the back of my hand. I wish it was tattooed on the back of my hand.

People get that. I've seen people with astrology tattoos.

I thought about it. I wish everyone had an invisible one on their forehead.

That would be amazing.

And I would walk up to you and I'd go, look, he's a full moon in Scorpio.

That would probably save the dating process a lot of pain.

Especially. What it would save is the psychology of teenagers. If we taught this in schools and gave kids permission, like, you don't talk and you talk nonstop and you go work out and you go be an artist. And people were like, oh, I knew it. That's who I really am. The teenager would not have so much pain.

I think a lot of so good. I think a lot of people that are drawn to astrology. There's many, many books about relationship astrology. This seems to be a universal pain body.

Yes.

Do you find that. That you said 98% in in the courses and teachings are women. Why only 2% of men? And what's the deal with such a focus on relationships in astrology?

It's stroke. Well, it is increasing. There are more and more men coming into ourselves.

I mean, I'm part of the 2% now.

I'm so excited that there's more men coming. And relationship is the deepest human condition. Everybody wants to know, do you love me? Do I what? Do you love me? It's our deepest longing in our hearts that ever. This is why I love astrology. I get to look at your chart and go, they're in love with you. You're so cool. Look at your chart. You've got a grand trine in fire. You've got a full moon in Scorpio. I mean, I'm genuinely giving you reflection of what the angels think think when they look at you. Just in case you're wondering, Josh and relationship is the deepest conversation on this planet. And by the way, loneliness is only on this planet. There is no such thing as loneliness outside this dimension. It's because we're so desperate to feel the oneness, to feel. That's why we love making love. Like, give me one moment of going Back to the 1. And why is orgasm called a small death? Because you let go of your ego. Look what you do in that moment. It's so weird. People have the weirdest experiences on your side. And it's in the dark and your eyes are closed and you're with your. What's your name? And your hope. Remember her name after it's over. Because for God's sake, you want the orgasm. It's such a bizarre, animalistic. And what is that really saying? Just give me a break. Just show me I'm loved. Take me out of this dimension for a minute. And once you realize that that fixation of romantic love, which is the sweetest thing that makes the world go around, is really between you and you, that was what changed my life. And it's in the book. I thought that I was a sucky little emotional creature. I was kind of embarrassed by myself because I was so codependent and I really needed approval because I'm Libra rising. So I was constantly looking for people to like and be liked by. And then I realized it was between me and me. And the whole thing liberated me. And that was the evolution of the high road of Libra. It's not about relationship with the other. But this fixation on human planet Earth is because the planet Saturn, the life lesson for all of us on this planet, is ruled by Saturn, and it's exalted. Its highest position is Libra, which is relationship. So what is the hardest lesson on planet Earth according to astrology? Marriage, partnership, friendships, business partners and commitments. That's the hardest thing we can do down here. Can we stay loyal? Can we listen to the other? Can we step over our egos? Can we really care about the other? That's what the human condition. That's 101, why we're here.

Do you feel like marriage is the ultimate crucible compared to the others?

I think it's a contrived word. I don't think marriage is required, like the signing of the paper. I think that's a very earthbound, let's.

Just say divine union.

But the divine union, what you might have with your wife or what I have with my best friend or what I have with my kid or what someone has with the dog. That union is the point of this experience. We come down here to go, oh, it feels. I love you so much. For some reason, it's just our. That's what happens on our deathbed. Like, I love you so much. I'm gonna be so sad when you go, please don't go, don't go, don't go. And it's just the best, worst feeling, love and the end of it. It's strange. And I am a hopeless romantic. Every time I see a couple, like watching you and your wife, seeing a spiritual commitment that came across time that was sealed with superglue, I'm like, good for you. That's a sign of evolution that you found your partner. Now, that's not true for everyone. And there's lots and lots of people on this planet suffering from loneliness. That's just simply not knowing who the real partner is. Because in the end of the game, we come in alone and we arrive alone. And it's essentially between me and me and my beloved, which is spirit, God, life, the high priestess Christ. I don't care what you call it.

Yeah.

But you've got to fall in love. Wow.

Sylvie was on the podcast. She's a relationship expert. And if you don't know her, I'm going to connect you, because I think y' all would jam. She said that we put so much emphasis in relationship with ourselves, of the man and the woman, or however you relate, that we actually used to put that with God. We used to connect with God, but we're looking for God in relationship. Do you find that to be the case?

100% true. The symbol of Libra is this two lines, horizontal, like it's two. Because Libra is a sign of relationship in astrology, but it has this big bump in the middle that goes vertical. And the whole point is for the people to remember all of us, that the true relationship. There's only one of us here, and it's between me and me. And that took me so many years to get. I mean, I almost think the monks, the Dalai Lama, the Christ energy, they're single. And there's something to be said about mastering that relationship with the self. And then for those of you in couples, in relationships, there's something about mastering the true commitment to another and saying, I got you, babe. I will be here for you. And I saw that today with you, and I just loved sitting in the middle of you two. Wow.

Yeah. My mind is blown. I actually was one of the people.

That you didn't believe in it, that.

Did not believe in astrology, but you.

Know, you didn't believe in it. You just thought your wife was going on.

There's a caveat. Being with Kerri Michelle. I love her, I trust her. So she was informing me in little nuggets, and I would hear her talk to people, but I never really got it. Today with the elements and the lines and everything you shared, I'm like, I want to learn more about this. Right? It's that spark. It's that thing like, oh, I'm. I'm curious about this now. Instead of, oh, that's too woo woo, or oh, that's too, you know, non scientific. I think it's the spark of curiosity that drives me and most people into learning about something new. Do you find how can we fuel the spark of curiosity for people when it comes to astrology?

It's so sweet. It's humility. Just admit that you're a little screwed up and you want to figure it out. Just start there. Just go, I'll be honest. I can't figure myself out. I live with fear. I live with insecurity. Or I live with. With too much ambition, or I live with a lack of those things that really bug you. That's the thing that you should be so curious about. Like, why am I like this? And then you read the chart and you go, oh, that explains everything. And now we get on with our lives. It doesn't mean you need to be an astrologer. That is the last thing I'm interested in. We only have. Of all those 8,000 students I've had, we only have 22 certified astrologers. And I. Cause it's an art. It takes a long time to get certified. And I do this game called matchmaking. People write in, I see their chart, and I fix them up with the perfect astrologer that will match their chart. Matchmaker, matchmaker, make me a match. Did I sing three times now?

Yes.

So people sign up and they say, can you help me? Because they've never had a reading. And I can guarantee you the people that I've trained can make it so simple to answer. Why are you so strange?

Do you feel that I've said this before? Like, with Carrie and I, I'm like, the heart has to beat the chart. Like, you're not predetermined to. Like a Leo and a. A Taurus won't work. Right? Like, in other words, like, I think you even said it on Alex's podcast, like, cupid is blind. Cupid is blind. She, like, gets in a delirium and shoots the ear.

She knows nothing about astrology.

Right. So is it true that I love.

That you listen to that with the combination true. It's karma. You meet people all your first love and your first husband and that stupid girl and that stupid guy. That's all karma. Those are people you had some agreement with to come in and learn from. And no, Cupid can't figure out your chart. No, she's not doing astrology. But once you get into the relationship. Then you say, let me figure you out because we are so different. But I can feel the heart. To your point, the karmic agreement we had. And if you can remember, you're so right about the forgetting. This is my longing, this life, to have a really good memory. And I do have a really good memory so that I don't forget. What did I sign up for? What am I doing here? These are the questions to your point about curiosity. Please let everyone listening ask these questions. Why am I here? Who can I serve? What was God thinking when she made me? What was the point of this? These are great. They should be written down. And just keep asking yourself, what was God thinking when she made me? What was I supposed to be learning? And based on results, you don't even need astrology. You can look over your history. Oh, I guess they wanted me to learn about my physical body. So I have this ailment and I was learning patience. Oh, I guess I was here to learn about money because I came in so poor, but I've really created wealth. That was my teaching. Oh, I guess I was here to learn about relationship. So I've been through all these relates. You can answer the question, the reducing of the judgment of what you think you're doing or how you're doing it or all the mean things that can do away with. Because when the observer's on, she goes, yeah, now that you mention it, the evidence speaks for itself. It's very loud. What life is teaching me.

I have a practice I've been doing intermittently, which I get to do more. And it's a prayer. I usually do it in the sauna. So I'll just put my hand in my heart and I'll close my eyes and I'll say, God, what is it that I most get to learn? And how can I be most humble to learn it? And I'll say that over and over and over again. And there's been some wild stuff that comes up there. Key word humble. Because you said that was the code. Humility. Humility is the spark of curiosity that would draw somebody to learning about self.

Okay, here's the story. Ready? I did exactly what you did. I was in prayer. And I asked the question, a funny question, if I were to die tomorrow, is there anyone in my world that I have an out with that I'm not settled with that would come back as karma? And I had this person's name come up. That same day, I'm on my bicycle and I, for some random reason, stopped in Whole Foods. I don't even know why I'm there. I'm buying a shot, like a ginger shot. And I look over, and there's that person coming in the door. So I walk up to him, and I say, this is gonna be a weird conversation. I just had a meditation this morning, and I asked the question, is there anyone in my life that I have an out with that, if I were to die, would be unfinished? And I realized it was you. I know that you heard a session that I did with your wife in the car where I told her to consider divorce. I didn't say to do it. And you've made up a story that you got divorced because of Debra Silverman. I just want to say to you, it's been 10 years since that happened. I've watched your children grow up. I've become friends with your wife. You've done a beautiful job as a father. And I just want to say I'm sorry. It wasn't me. Can I have a hug? And he said, yes. And we had a hug. And as I pulled back, he was standing with an empty tray at Whole Foods in front of the salad section. I said, what are you doing here? And he said, I don't know. And I said, me either. That was my intuition asking the question to God, is there something you need to say to me? And the evidence spoke for itself. That's the highest level. When the observer's on, when the humility's on, when you go into that sauna and you do your prayers every day and you're humbled enough to remember that the High Priestess, the highest road for this lifetime is to be awake inside the dream and ask the question, what am I supposed to be learning? What did I. What did you. I mean, these are such great. They're so powerful.

Oh, yeah.

And you're built for them. So thank you for this podcast and giving me the gift of being able to speak to my most favorite question. What am I doing here? And how can I be of service?

Wow. Okay, here's the book. Go pick it up. What did we not cover that you really feel like your heart wants to share about how people will feel, people will receive the book. What do you. What's your dream with the book?

Is to get them to the last chapter.

Okay.

And open up the door to the observer. That was really my purpose. I feel like it was a trick. Like, I used their ego. Because, of course, you went right to the Taurus chapter. That was your ego. That's your son signs your ego bookmark. It. You went right to the Taurus, which you're all going to do, and so you should. And then my real trick was, let me speak to your ego, get you feeling like I see you, and then sneak you into the back room where the observer is and say, listen, you guys, don't be identified with just the ego. There's your rising sign and there's your soul, and there's the observer going, come with me. And if I do my job this lifetime, I think they're going to put me in the front row when I get home. I'm going to be, like, celebrated.

You have such fun energy. Thank you for being my guest. Thank you for the service to our union. It's very special.

Oh, I loved it.

Very sacred. Very special. I recommend your 4e process to every human being in a relationship. There's so much to learn.

Thank you.

So much to learn. Well, we can go get the book everywhere the book is sold. It just hit USA Today's bestseller list yesterday.

That's true.

Congratulations.

Thank you. And the Amazon. Bestseller. And I can't.

Oh, and the Amazon.

And I can't wait to see your wife at my astrology school. I can't tell you.

She's in the studio right now.

I know. I can't tell you what happens. How much fun it is for me when people sign up for the school. It's just six weeks. Weeks. 10 people in a room. And we're going to study you and answer these questions.

Amazing, you guys. Amazing. Okay. Share this podcast with somebody who doesn't believe in astrology, because conversations like this are worthy of sharing. I know. They come from my heart. I can feel your heart. So just so, so fun. Conversations like this stick to your soul because there's no fluff. We just get right to it. So I appreciate that.

You're really good at that, Mr. Full Moon in Scorpio.

And you do it with joy, which is my goal. To be resting in my kingship. Authentic joy.

Well, I guess I helped with that.

You definitely did. All right, y'.

All.

Until we see you again, I'm wishing you love, wellness, but most importantly, peace and power. You cannot have power unless it comes from peace. We'll talk with you soon.