Eat Healthy and Eco-Friendly Foods, with Stacie De Lucia

Welcome to the Five Journeys podcast.

We are really excited today to have Stacy Della Chio, and she is our Five Journeys nutritionist. And I know I learn something new every time I speak to her, so I'm really excited to talk and see what, what new things I can learn.

Let me tell you about Stacy. Stacy's a registered dietitian nutritionist and she studied at the University of Delaware. She's currently pursuing a master's degree in functional nutrition, because one degree wasn't that she's got to get another one. She's worked on organic farms in Hawaii and Italy. And really her passion lies in learning and teaching people about sustainable agriculture and holistic healing through whole foods and lifestyle. We're so excited to have you here today, Stacy. Thank you. Welcome.

Thank you guys. It's so good to be here.

So we really want to know, why does the quality of food matter?

Big loaded question, right?

Let's just dive right in.

Yeah, just start with an easy question, why don't you?

Yeah. I'm sure everyone has heard the saying food is medicine. So really, to me, food is our first line of defense to keep our bodies healthy. We whole balanced as our medicine source. And then later on we use it as a defense against, for our immune system, keeping all our systems balance. Our microbiome, we'll go more into detail on that. But what's inside of our food is really important specifically for the chemical composition of our body. So really interacts with everything, our gut, our brain, to keep us and make us a whole person that's functioning properly.

Yeah, and, and the. Yeah. I mean, the quality for me is huge because there's such a big difference right now in this world between the commercial petroleum based foods that are loaded with chemicals and herbicides and pesticides, and then the organic stuff that has to fend for itself and has all the micronutrients and phytonutrients that it needs to really grow. So I think it's a huge, huge topic.

I'm not sure people in general know that about organic foods. Actually, I think that's something really huge that the organic foods have to fight for their right to grow. And the foods that are treated with pesticides, herbicides and insecticides, they get their work done for them to. So they grow, but they don't develop the same level of nutrients and antioxidants. I think that's a really critical thing to underscore for people.

Yeah, There's a big debate about organic, conventional. And what does that even mean? That term natural is thrown Around a lot, which absolutely means nothing anyone can put natural on their label. But organic has to go through all these different stipulations, so it's more regulated. And it's a way that we can have more control over our food. Because we're not. Most of the time, we're not the ones that are growing it, picking it, seeing it, getting processed. So things that are organic, we can have some kind of trust there that there's no antibiotics added, no hormones, pesticides and herbicides are from naturally derived sources. The animals are being raised in a more humane way. There's no artificial colors, flavors, and things like that. So it is a good rule of thumb when you're looking for produce and meat and. And dairy products and all of that, to try to go for organic with that USDA symbol on it to make sure that it's trusted. And to some extent, talk to us about meat.

Meat before we go there. I definitely want to talk about meat, because meat's huge. But I had a. Right before that, I had a question in the sense of why do we care? All right, so it's organic. Great. What's in it for me? It's really what I think a lot of people are asking, okay, it's nice to have no herbicides, pesticides, but who cares? What's in it for me? How does it help me?

Why pay the cost?

Exactly. Yep. So it really goes back to making sure your body is functioning properly. And sometimes we don't see that until we start to break down. So I know in our functional medicine practice, sometimes we're a last resort for people. They haven't really cared about what they've been eating their whole life. They've lived a sedentary lifestyle. They've had high stress, trauma, things like that. And then all of a sudden, it's like a light switch turns on or off and the body starts to break down and all of these symptoms start happening, and they're wondering what went wrong. But it's a matter of living a certain lifestyle with this high value of food so that we can prevent that from happening where it all comes crashing down. So it's really about kind of living this lifestyle to make sure that all the systems are running properly. We don't see it. It's like if you want to see how a car is running, you can look under the hood. But for us, you know, we get testing and things like that. But most people don't really look at their bodies and how they're feeling. They're not so intuitive about it. Until things start to. Systems start to shut down. So it's really important to know where your food is coming from because you're putting it directly into your body and it's affecting all of those mechanisms going on. So sometimes we don't think about that until. Until the worst happens. So this is kind of a good awareness for people to think about, okay, maybe I should not eat out every single day of the week. Maybe I should start looking at what's in my food and start reading labels so I don't have to spend so much money on medical bills later on. I mean, obesity is like the billions of dollars per year in our country on trying to treat it, rather than if we focused on prevention, we'd be saving all that money and be able to put it in something else. So it's a big issue that people don't realize, but that's why we're here talking about this.

And I don't know, Ed, I would say the other thing that I would jump off of, on top of what it does in your body is the absence of the herbicides, insecticides and pesticides on the earth is profound because what happens to the soil and the animals that are exposed to the downstream effects of these, I'll just say pesticides as a big grouping of herbicides, insecticides and pesticides altogether because it causes frogs to convert from male to female and it changes the reproductive systems of other animals and it damages the soil long term. So not only I would say sometimes I might not do it for myself, but I might do it for the earth because it's so harmful to the earth to put these things on it. So that's the second argument for why do.

Definitely I'll jump off that. And if your microbiome. So the bacteria in our gut, which we know have profound health implications long term. And we know that that's something that's coming up every day where the scientists are discovering new ways. That's actually our microbiome is a reflection of the microbiome of the soil, the microbiome of the earth. So if we put pesticides and herbicides in our bodies, we mess up our microbiome and they're messing up our health.

Yeah, I love talking about gut health. It's like I pretty much talk about it in every single session that I have with somebody because I think awareness is happening more with it because everyone knows what that means now, but they don't necessarily know how important it is. So I remember first hearing about the Human Microbiome Project and While researching the soil microbiome, it came up that there's now an Earth microbiome project because they're realizing that the microbiome of the soil is really affecting the whole environment and the ecosystem, and we're getting that as well. So it's really affecting human health. So I love that you brought that up with the sustainability piece, because we might not only be doing it for ourselves, but it's about the land that we're living in, the resources that we're using up, and our children. And our children. Children, you know, kind of looking out for them to make sure that it's a place that they'll have the same experiences that we did growing up that we loved. You know, going out and going to farms and getting to pick fresh prod juice and not having to worry about necessarily washing it so much or all the other things that we might have to worry about now and kind of helping preserve that so we can feed our families and our communities, too.

Yeah, totally. I want to go back to something you referenced, Stacy, which. Where you said, maybe I won't eat out every night. Can you talk to me about the different. Talk to us about the difference between home cooking and eating out every night. What difference does that make? Because I think for a lot of people, they are not necessarily cooking. And it feels like, well, I went to the Whole Foods bar and I ate the processed food, but it's whole food, so it's good food.

Sounds really good. Right?

Right. Yep, yep. So something that I've noticed in our practice is that people think that eating out at healthy places is healthy. Right. Like, we were hoping that something says whole foods on it, it's going to be healthy. And unfortunately, that's not the case because they have to mass produce things. So as a part of being a dietitian, you have to work in food service. So I've worked in school food service before. I've worked in, you know, you see the dining halls. Yeah. So I just remember being in college and we had to have a meal plan and I would feel so sick. But it was like salad and tofu, and it was stuff that I wouldn't normally get sick off of. Maybe if I had dairy, I knew I'd feel kind of off. But if I had just a salad, what was wrong? Why was I feeling so sick after I ate? And a lot of it is the heavy processed oils and all of the additives that we don't see. Like, you see the big trucks come in with all of the big boxes that they Buy in bulk to feed all these people. And it's a lot of heavy oils, corn, canola, soy. Just products that are really like heavy in preservatives that you wouldn't think are in the foods. And so I think growing up I was very privileged to have a dietitian as a mom. Even though sometimes I resented it. I wanted to go to my friend's house and raid their cabinet with all of the gushers and fruit roll ups and things like that. I learned that I was very privileged. And so I think my body was used to eating so clean that when I went away to school, on top of the stress of being in school, the food, my body just wanted to reject it. It was like, what is this? This doesn't make me feel good. And so the same thing goes for eating out. Even if you can physically see what's in it and you think it's good, there might be a lot of other oils and preservatives and things in there that your body doesn't really want. It's not going to help it. It wants to fight them off. So I always talk to patients about taking enzymes when they go out to the foods that they're not used to and they notice a world of difference. So that's a really good question to talk about. Yeah.

Yeah, that's profound. And I found that no matter how organic a restaurant is, it's still not as good as home. There's just something about cooking at home.

That he's got to say that because he's married to his co podcaster.

He.

Knows who his bread is.

So let's go back when you asked about meat because I think that's a really important piece of the equation. What is the difference with meat? Why do we care?

Yeah, why do we care about meat? So I'm sure some of our listeners have seen documentaries about the meat industry. So Food Inc. Is something that they showed us in high school. And I remember I could barely look during some of the parts. Cause it was just so horrifying how the industry works. And so we need to care about meat because it's a hormonal food, right? Like we're eating an animal that has hormones. So that's going to affect our hormones in our body. And I know in our practice we see a lot of patients with hormonal issues and that might not be the only source that it's coming from, but it's a big contributing factor to kind of throwing them off balance. So if you think about an animal that's out Being pasture raised, grass fed, grass finished or organic practices where they're out, they're able to graze or able to be not confined. Eating healthy things that their bodies are used to and know how to process. It's way less inflammatory to the body than something like an animal that's packed in together. You know, they're constantly stressed because they don't know what's happening. They're eating grains like corn and even wheat and soy where their stomachs can't process it. It's causing a ton of inflammation in their bodies. So when we get.

We got a lot of methane gas off.

Yeah. You know what's gonna happen to us when we eat it? Right. So it is, you know, people get kind of, they want to eat steak all the time because it tastes good and all of that and it feels good to have a nice steak. But we have to really figure out like what where is this coming from and what is it going to be doing to my body. So we always, I know we talk about looking for those keywords, grass fed, grass finished, pasture raised, and then the USDA organic symbol. And then, you know, local's great too because you can talk to the farmer. So you can like go there, you can see the animals if you want to. I know that might be triggering for some people, but you can go and see the practices. You can see them getting fed, you can see them getting taken care of and you can ask the farmer. So that's why I love farmers markets, because the people that work there are there. So you can say, hey, like I care about my food, so tell me how the animals are raised. I know in our area we have one that some of our patients use called Walden Local. And so they usually have pretty good practices as well. And they do a lot of transparency like Q&As for people. So something like that in our listeners other areas is good to look into, even meat shares. I don't have ever done a meat share before, but it's a really cost effective way to have meat. Especially if you have kids, you know, or a big family you have to feed. You know, buying a lot at one time will definitely pay off in the long run. And making sure it's good quality helps with that as well.

Yeah, I'd also love to put a plug in for the local farmers who are not quite as big as Walden. We actually bought a whole cow whom we named Bessie. I don't know why, Bessie just named Laurie. We bought a whole cow from a local farmer who's a about an hour away from us. And I always felt like we were doing sort of this drug deal. We'd meet in the parking lot of a bank or a closed store and we'd transfer all this meat from his trunk to my trunk. I mean, we couldn't even get it all at once because it was so much meat. I think it was three separate trips. But he's not USDA organic certified, but it is organic. And so I also put a plug in for the local guys who might not have the, the size of the organization to be able to get the certification, but who are also right next door doing organic work. And I mean, I've never tasted something so flavorful.

Wow.

From Bessie.

So, yeah, the other point.

Thank you, Bessie.

Thank you, Bessie. The other point that we want to make sure to get is what you were talking about, the stress. So when animals eat a lot of omega 6s, which is grains, that's a very inflammatory process. Right. Naturally animals graze or cows graze. Different animals do different things, but cows graze and they're getting a lot of greens and antioxidants and omega 3s, and that is against inflammation. That's anti inflammatory. So the idea, there's a huge difference between eating an 8 ounce steak that's conventionally grown and an 8 ounce steak that's organic. And people really don't get the difference because it looks the same, but one is really inflammatory, one is not. And it's pretty profound.

Yeah.

And the same thing goes for dairy because it's, you know, it's the same animal. It's kind of funny. My dad called me and he's just learning about all this stuff and he said, oh, I bought a grass fed milk in a glass bottle because he loves the old fashioned look of a glass bottle. And he said, it was the worst milk I've ever had. And I said, okay, you're probably not used to the taste because he gets the skim plus that's like lactose free, which I'm sure tastes horrible to someone who drinks grass fed milk. So yeah, it was a funny epiphany for me because we're used to eating a lot of American general processed foods that are so altered that we don't really know what the food's actually supposed to taste like. So it's funny that his taste buds were so trained to have something so bland that when he had the real thing, he couldn't even. It tasted like bad to him. So it's pretty funny.

I remember reading a book a couple years ago, oh, God, it's at least five years ago at this point. It's called French Kids Eat Everything and they talk about that the human taste buds are not designed to like healthy foods. They're designed to like salty, sweet, savory. And that when you're trying new foods, you have to try the same form of a food at least 15 times before you can vote yay or nay. And that's not just saying broccoli, that's saying like fresh broccoli versus steamed broccoli versus steamed broccoli with lemon butter versus whatever that is. So the taste buds are really not naturally geared for healthy. We just, we like salt and sugar.

Right.

That packs on the calories and let our ancestors survive.

Yes. We're not hardwired for it, but you have to practice actually new foods. So I have a question for you, Stacy, because I get this a lot from my patients. How do you prioritize it? So, for example, is organic from California when we live in Boston area more important than non organic local? Like how do you prioritize what's more.

Important and then what is the effect of driving a truck or flying or something on the environment for that? Organic?

So when you package it up, obviously the best would be organic from a local farmer down the street, doesn't have to travel and it's year round.

Actually, I'm going to say the best is grown in your own garden.

That's true. That is true.

That's true.

We have a plethora of cucumbers right now, but assuming most of us can't, I mean, we have a huge garden and we cannot, it wouldn't sustain us.

Right.

A very small garden, it feels huge for the work we do four by fours, but yes.

Okay, so assuming most people aren't going to do their own garden and can their own foods, how do you prioritize this?

Right. So I love talking about local for multiple reasons. One, like you just said, if the food is traveling from California, we live thousands of miles away from that. So the impact on the environment's not good at all because it's emitting all those, you know, the fossil fuels. But it's also not great for our bodies either, because if you think about it, and you guys know this because you garden a lot, once you pick something, it already starts losing nutrients because it's not attached to that source anymore. So think about something that was picked three weeks ago in California and it finally just made it to my plate. What's left besides maybe a little bit of water and some minerals and then, you know, on top of cooking it, I'm probably cooking it. Maybe I'm sauteing it or boiling it. Then there really isn't a lot left. Like, it doesn't have much defense left. So I'd say local is number one. And also for the same reason of you can talk to the people who grow it. So even if it isn't USDA certified, because it is a hard certification to get and it costs money, you can talk to them about their spraying practices and their sustainable practices. So a lot of them are. They use terms like biodynamic. I know, like Drumlin Farm near us also has like, biodynamic practices. They don't use. They're not USDA certified, I don't think, but they use biodynamic practices. So local, I think, is number one. So they're regenerating the soil, which I don't. I think we're going to get into soil health at one point in a little more detail, they're using rain as their source of. Of water rather than using a bunch of water and wasting it, because that's a big issue too. And they don't really. They don't use any. Like, all of their spray is like white clay. So it's naturally derived. It's not any harmful pesticides or herbicides. It's a really cool place. And there's a lot of small farmers that are trying to do more of this. And so supporting them on top of all the other benefits we just mentioned, helps to keep the demand up so we can have these kinds of foods. Because if the demand isn't there, then they might be forced into do conventional growing. Because like I said, it is kind of expensive to be all USDA certified and the regulations are really hard and things like that. So there is, I think local for me would be number one for most of our patients for all of those reasons.

Okay, what are other terms people should look out for? Like, I know we went to Wards Berry Farm as a group, and I know Wards Berry Farm does ipm, Integrative Pest Management. And so I know that means they don't spray at certain times, but I think they're using pesticides. But it's at the times when the plants are less vulnerable to taking them.

Up, not on the fruit, and as little as possible basically, too. As opposed to blanket spraying them, they spray just specific crops as needed and are cautious. I think that's the big stuff. But I want to go to soil because I love soil.

Soil is awesome.

Why should we Care about soil.

Right. So something that I like to think about is when we were younger, we would be outside playing in the dirt. Right. Like, we weren't necessarily eating it, we were playing in. It depends who you are.

But yes, Right.

Like mud pies and things like that. But that was really actually contributing to our microbiome. So a little bit of back background on microbiome. It's 75% of our immunity, our immune system. So it's important now more than ever because we need that to keep us healthy, keep us safe. So when it's compromised, we're immunocompromised. That's where a lot of people are getting autoimmune conditions now. So that's number one. Secondly, I'm sure a lot of our listeners have heard of the gut brain axis, or the gut being the second brain. That's because it's its own separate nervous system and it produces 95% of our serotonin. 95. That's almost 100%. So that's our happiness hormone. That helps us sleep, it helps us digest, it helps our hunger cues. And so a lot of things that we're seeing in mental health now could be directly linked with the gut. So it's really important to make sure that our gut is healthy and the soil is a huge piece of that. So I know this is a recent topic for me that I have been looking into, because I don't really think about it too much. I've heard about rotating crops to keep the soil nutrient dense and nitrogen and oxygen and carbon and things like that that it needs. But it has its own little microbiota in there. So it has fungus and bacteria that work together to be its own ecosystem to help the plants thrive. So it's like if the plants had a gut, like a stomach or a microbiome, that's what the soil is for them. So they're taking that up. So when we eat something, like when we go pick those berries out there, or even root vegetables like carrots and radishes and just kind of rinse it off, we're getting a lot of the bacteria that we need to keep our gut diverse. Because if we have too high levels of certain types and not enough of others, that's when this dysbiosis starts happening, where we get thrown off and we start getting, you know, irritable bowel syndrome or bloating gas, things like that, Candida overgrowth. So keeping it healthy with having nutrient dense soil is important. So all these pesticides and herbicides, the word is right in there. Pesticides, bugs. Right. Like, they're killing the good bugs in the soil. Just like when you use, like the antibacterial soap and things, it's killing all the bacteria, not just the bad ones. So the same. Yeah. So it's using, you know, using all these things is killing all that. So it's depleting the soil of these nutrients. It's a big heavy. Yeah, heavy.

But have you. Have you seen the movie Kiss the Soil?

Yes. Kiss the ground. Kiss the ground.

Kiss the ground, yeah.

Yes. It was scary, definitely. Yeah.

It's very informative.

And like, I went going back to, like, kids playing outside. I mean, even us adults, we've been confined for a year. Like, I know people have been able. Like, more people have been going out in nature, which is awesome. I went to go get my bike fixed last summer because I wanted to go biking more, and there was not one bike in sight that you could buy. And if there was one, it was like, so expensive because so many people were realizing that they needed to get out of their house or they were going to go crazy. So it was, in a sense, it was good because people are starting to get more connected with being outside, especially here in the summer. But we were inside for so long and we're not exposed to people. When you shake somebody's hand, when you talk to them, you're kind of exchanging bacteria in a good way. Right. Like, you're keeping your microbiome healthy. So when we don't do that, we're wearing masks. We have to. Right. But we're kind of missing out on a lot of things that would help keep our microbiome healthy. So it's really important to be connected to going outside, getting your hands dirty, touching trees, leaves, things like that. That is also grounding. So for spiritual health as well, it's important.

So how do you connect that? Tell me. Say something more about the spiritual piece of it for you at least.

So I'm sure some people have heard the term grounding. So if you notice, we're inside a lot, and this is something. I'll kind of give you a brief story. When I was doing an organic farming trip in Hawaii, we had been living outside for a couple weeks, just on a deck with tarps around us. It was like, very minimal, which was great. You realize how much you don't need when you're living out there. And the first time we were inside, we were in a bathroom of a national park restaurant or something like that, Volcano National Park. And I remember looking at my friend who was staying with me, and we're like, whoa, it's so weird to be inside. It felt like a luxury. And it was just so you feel a little bit thrown off, like with the lighting, like the harsh lighting, and you're just touching plastic all day, you know? And so spiritually, you feel very disconnected when you're inside all the time. And we don't might not realize that if we're not intuitive about it. But I guarantee if people start spending more time outside and just deep breathing and really looking around them and feeling. Letting all their senses feel the environment, they'll feel more relaxed and more connected to the earth, which then helps them be more connected with their food. They'll want to know what's in their food once they see it growing. Like, even for kids, if you expose them to a garden. So a lot of schools have gardens now. Most of the time. They're going to at least try that broccoli or try that cucumber that's growing because they grew it. So they're, in a sense, spiritually connected to their food at that point because they feel that connection. So they're like, okay, I wouldn't eat this if my mom gave it to me, but I grew this, so let me at least give it a try. And so I think it's really important to have that spiritual connection, especially again, since we've been so confined to our spaces, our inside boxes. It's important now more than ever and for mental health, too, to be able to have that relaxation. Because a lot of us are just stressed all the time and our bodies don't know the difference between being chased by a tiger in the jungle or being stressed at our desk because something's going on at work. So we're always in that fight or flight response. And when we're able to pull ourselves out of it and be outside for a little bit. That's why I love going on a walk on lunch break. It totally changes our mentality to be refreshed and renewed so we can live a, like a lower stress life. That was a long winded answer, but.

That'S a great answer.

So I. I know. I. There's a lot of more things I have questions about, especially the Hawaii and Italy. I want to know. Yeah, I think this is. This is probably a good time to stop and wait for part two and three.

Yeah.

Okay.

We definitely have to come back to how to get kids eating food that they love.

The thing that I. Yeah, to that I would add the best thing I Ever see is when kids eat directly from the plant, it's the best thing in the world. And when they pick it and just put it in their mouth, there's nothing better.

And he's also talking about our front yard. Our front pathway is all herbs, and then there's all vegetables along the side. So we send them out before dinner, and we're like, go have. Go make a sandwich. Call it a sandwich, which is, you know, a lettuce leaf or sorrel or spinach something. And then wrapped around it as a bunch of herbs and other vegetables and twine of chives.

Yes.

So it's really the best.

We'll take a picture the next time she does it.

It's.

It's pretty meaningful, but I think we could have a whole session on that.

Yes, definitely.

Stacy, thank you so much. This has been amazing. Yeah. Looking forward.

Thank you so much.

Next collaborations.

You're coming back?

Yeah. It's so great to talk with you guys about all this stuff I learn just by speaking it and then having you guys give me some insight, too. It's great. Yeah.

So we're delighted you were able to join us. And if you're out there listening, we're delighted that you were able to join us for this episode. Be sure to follow so we can keep you up to date with new episodes. And once again, thanks for listening to the Five Journeys podcast.

Thank you and take care.