Eat Mushrooms for Better Gut Health and Immunity, with Dr. Anna Sitkoff

Eating the mushrooms as food is going to have a bigger impact on your gut microbiome on helping to lower cholesterol and stabilize blood sugar.

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And I'm Dr. Ed Levitan. Welcome to the Feel Freaking Amazing podcast.

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Hello and welcome to this episode of the Feel Freaking Amazing podcast. I'm Wendy Trubo. We've got Ed Levitan today and our guest today is Anna Sitkoff and she's awesome. She is a licensed naturopathic doctor and medicinal mushroom expert. She has over a decade of experience specializing in natural therapies that blend clinical practice with research. She's the co founder and chief science officer of Lucidum Medicinals and formulates evidence based mushroom supplements that support immune, lung, nervous system health. And she's also an expert in women's health and functional medicine and educates practitioners and the public on the therapeutic power of mushrooms. There's a lot to say, but basically she's really cool and knows a lot about mushrooms and takes care of everyone with a huge broad base of information. That's the recap. So welcome Anna. Thanks for being here.

Thanks for having me. And it's Anna.

Anna. Oh my gosh. Thank you for saying something.

What is medicinal mushrooms and why do we care?

Yeah, so I mean, mushrooms are the above ground portion or the visible portion of the more broader fungal organism. And then medicinal just means that they have healing properties. So it's the part of the fungal organism that we see that is used for medicine. Basically the part of the fungal organism that we don't see. The mycelium also has some medicinal benefits, but I really prefer to use the mushroom itself. It has more medicinal compounds and it's what's been used for centuries as medicine.

All right, so unfortunately I have to get in. This is the.

I want to talk about the Mycelium. I'm so curious.

I mean, this is the. My challenge. Somebody that's not in the field but just loves it. I don't know who to listen to because there are people like Paul Stamets who used the Mycelium and he's like a big, big gorilla in the room, I guess. I mean, he's trying to be knowledgeable and then there, there's a whole camp like yourself that say no, it's not the mycelium. It's the actual mushroom.

Yeah. This is the drama of the mycology world. Like, this is, this is it right here. And I don't think that it needs to be one or the other. I think that the, the issue is not the mycelium itself, but it's the way that the mycelium is produced as medicine. So a lot of companies, most companies that are using mycelium in their products, it's not pure mycelium, it's myceliated grain. So there's the substrate that the mycelium is growing on, that's what it's feeding off of. That's how it grows. And then when that's processed, you can't take the mycelium out of the grain. It's all so tightly intertwined. It's like tempeh. Right? It's like trying to take out all of the mycelium from the tempeh. It's like you just can't do that. And so when it's processed, it's this combination of the mycelium and the grain. And so what you're getting in your capsule or your powder or your tincture or whatever is not pure mycelium. It's like whatever alpha glucans are in the grains. Some people are sensitive to grains. It's not going to have, I think, as much of a medicinal impact as the fruiting body. There's also a lot more compounds that are produced as the mushroom fruits and grows. There's going to be more polysaccharides or there's medicinal beta glucans. There's going to be more secondary metabolites like triterpenes, whereas some of the mycelium, like lion's mane mycelium, for example, that has erinacenes, whereas the fruiting body doesn't. Erinacenes are one of those compounds that's very well researched for brain and nervous system health. Health stimulates nerve growth factor synthase. And so people are like, well, I only want the mycelium of lion's mane because the fruiting body doesn't have the urine scenes. But I think that that is very reductive because there's also a lot of medicinal compounds in the fruiting body, like hericinones that also stimulate nerve growth factor synthase and support nerve function and brain function. And as we know with herbal medicine and mycological medicine, it's like you can't reduce down a natural substance to one active constituent. It's so much more than that there's synergy at play. In a lot of the research that's done on Lion's Mane, it's with the fruiting body. So I think that in an ideal world there would be like pure mycelium and that would be mixed with the fruiting body in certain situations.

Ana, I have a question because. Please forgive me, very basic question, which is when I think of mycelium, I think of them as almost diaphanous and not like you can't really pick it up, like you can pick up the mushroom. When you're talking about the mycelium, are you talking about these broad connections underground of the. The mycelium is almost like a fungus, but it's. But it's not. It's like a chain, but it's not as tangible. It has to grow on something, right?

Yeah. And sometimes there are like liquid. Liquid cultures. And that's like the companies that are making pure mycelium products, they're. They're growing the mycelium on liquid so you don't have to separate it out. But yeah, I mean, when you're in the forest and if there's a fruiting body, if you dig under the ground, you can see the mycel and you can often pick it up, but it's within everything that it's growing on. And there's really not any kind of historical use of mycelium. But I will say too, that the fruiting body part of the structure is the mycelium integrated into that. So a lot of the compounds you'd be looking for, say, aside from the erinacenes, which are only in the mycelium of Lion's Mane, are also in the fruiting body. So you're not really like missing out on. On much. If anything, I think you're. You end up benefiting more. And I think one other kind of issue that I see is that there's a lot of mycologists like Paul Stamets, who started these medicinal mushroom or mycelium supplement companies, and they're not practitioners. It's like they don't really. They're not with patients on a daily basis. They're not actually like prescribing their product to see how people respond in different disease situations. And I think it's really different to think about and talk about mushrooms from the perspective of a practicing physician than just somebody who's making supplements.

Right. You want to know about the clinical applicability of it. And is it working?

Yeah.

And how is it working?

Yeah.

So when I gather hen of the woods or you put in maitake into a supplement. What's the difference? Or is there a difference?

Yeah, there shouldn't be a huge difference. I mean, I think one, it depends where your maitake is growing, when you find it. Mushrooms do pick up heavy metals from the environment, so I guess that would be one difference is that my supplements most hopefully are being tested for heavy metals before they're distributed out to the public. But as far as the medicinal benefits, it's basically the same. You would just have to eat maitake a few times a day on a daily basis, which I don't have a problem doing that. But not everybody wants to do that. But if you're cooking the maitake, if you're just sauteing it, or if you're having it in a soup and drinking the broth, you're still going to be getting those medicinal polysaccharides that you would be getting in a supplement. Some other benefits, you need a higher.

Concentration if you're eating the raw or cooked. If you're eating the actual fruiting body of the mushroom, you need more of it than in a supplement, just because of a concentration ability of the supplement.

Okay, yeah. But the benefit, I think, with eating it is that you're going to be getting a lot more fiber. And, you know, the chitin in mushroom cell walls is, I think, a pretty significant part of the medicinal benefits of the mushrooms. And if you' like a mushroom tincture or a concentrated extract, you're probably not getting that much of the chitin. And that has really positive benefits for the gut microbiome. It's a prebiotic. I mean, the mushroom polysaccharides are also prebiotic. But I think eating food is probably eating the mushrooms as food is going to have a bigger impact on your gut microbiome, on helping to lower cholesterol and stabilize blood sugar. In the same way that eating any kind of fibrous food would like, you'd rather eat the fiber than have, like a fiber capsule.

Does lion's mane really live up to its name in terms of what it's reputed, or is that not real? Does it really help with cognition?

I think the lion's mane really does help with cognition. But the thing with lion's mane is that you need to be consuming at least like 2 grams of the extract daily. And what the studies show is that when you stop consuming the lion's mane, it stops having benefits. So it really only seems to be helpful while you're taking it. But I have seen it be very Helpful in situations where you don't necessarily need to be taking it long term, like for recovery from traumatic brain injury or recovery from stroke. As far as, like, does it prevent dementia or does it prevent neurodegenerative disease? I'm not totally convinced that lion's mane does. I mean, definitely doesn't do that better than, like, exercise. You know, exercise is actually beneficial for that. But other kinds of compounds in lion's mane and mushrooms, like maitake and oyster mushroom, like ergothione, for example, there's probably more likely that the more ergothione you have in your diet regularly will help to prevent neurodegenerative disease. And yeah, many, many mushrooms are high in ergothioneine. I think that also, it's like if you're eating mushrooms, if you're eating lion's mane on a daily basis, you're also supporting blood sugar regulation, you're also supporting your gut microbiome. All of those things are helpful for preventing neurodegenerative disease and helping your brain and your nervous system. So I think the benefits are layered. I don't necessarily think that taking a capsule of lion's mane on a daily basis is gonna necessarily be like, the thing that moves the needle for most people.

So are there any mushrooms that we should be consuming to either improve the immune system or help us with longevity? What's. There's a lot of things out there.

I still need a map.

There are a lot of things out there. Yeah. I mean, just thinking about the immune system generally, I think that if you're eating any mushroom on a daily basis, it's going to have some kind of immune benefits. There are certain mushrooms that are more, I think, better researched for their immune benefits. Like turkey tail would be a big one. Reishi, maitake, oyster mushroom. It's really the polysaccharides in the mushroom cell wall that are going to be eliciting the strongest immune supportive benefit. So they're going to be interacting with the immune cells in our gut associated lymphoid tissue, stimulating the release of different cytokines that will then stimulate natural killer cells and cytotoxic T cells and really supporting our antiviral antitumor defenses. And then if you're consuming mushrooms regularly or taking them as a supplement, that's also going to support this immune training theory where if you are consuming beta glucans on a regular basis for a period of time, maybe a month, that immune benefit will remain even when you're not taking the mushrooms or eating the mushrooms anymore. For a period of time. So I think yeah, there's not really like even just like eating chicken of the woods is going to have some benefit on the immune system. But as far as like if you have a patient who's actually like immune suppressed or getting sick often, I wouldn't necessarily just tell them to go eat chicken of the woods. I would say, okay, you need like a good dose of turkey tail in maitake. And reishi or cordyceps is another great antiviral.

Do you ever use it for patients who have just had Covid and are experiencing that brain fog and sort of mental lack of acuity after Covid? Do you ever use the lion's mane for them in a short term period?

So what I found to be more helpful is focusing on things that are more like mitochondrial support. So more antioxidant rich mushrooms like chaga or ergothione rich mushrooms like maitake or oyster mushroom or shiitake. I actually am part of a medicinal mushroom committee of the American Mycological association and we were just having a conversation about using lion's mane post Covid yesterday and somebody was saying that she actually had a friend who started responding really differently to lion's mane after having Covid and actually having like more of a negative effect, which is kind of interesting. I mean, I think it might be more related to like the alcohol in the tincture that, you know, I think people's response to alcohol can change after having Covid. But. But yeah, I think that really focusing on restoring mitochondrial function and improving endurance and exercise tolerance post Covid tends to in turn help with the brain fog and kind of cognitive deficits that come. So things like cordyceps can really, really helpful for improving exercise tolerance post Covid. And even if you don't have Covid or haven't had Covid and then Reishi to Ganoderma lucidum for kind of helping to regul regulate the nervous system and cortisol levels post Covid and helping with kind of lung capacity can be really helpful. And then if you're able to move your body, that tends to be really helpful for brain fog and cognitive deficits.

Is there any type of lifestyle? I mean, because we're really big on the foundations of your health, which is, you know, your, your movement, your stress, your sleep, your emotional health. Ensuring that the foundations of your health are good, that your gut's working. Are there any specific things that you want to highlight to make sure people are working on that can round out how effective the mushrooms are in there when they take them.

Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I think to go off of all the things you just said, it's like if in naturopathic medicine, and I think in functional medicine too, it's like we're always thinking about, like, what are the barriers to cure? And if you're taking mushrooms but you're not exercising, not eating enough protein, not having good sleep, like, the mushrooms aren't going to do anything if those barriers are in place. So I always tell people when you wake up in the morning, go outside if you can, move your body on a daily basis, stabilize your blood sugar throughout the day, eat enough protein, have some kind of mindfulness practice. I think that, yeah, trying to get all of the sleep you can. It's like, I'm a new mom. I know what it's like to not get good sleep, but just like, do your best and finding joy, community, all of those fundamentals of health are so important and they're not ever going to take like, mushrooms will never take the place of any of those things.

Okay, so I'm sorry, how do you pronounce? Is it lucidum?

Lucidum, yeah. It's the species of reishi. So reishi mushroom is ganoderma lucidum. And lucidum also like lucid. It means like light or bright. So, yeah, our company's name is lucidum.

Okay, so what do you guys do and like, how do you make sure that you get high quality mushrooms?

So my mushroom mentor and good friend, Jeff Chilton, he owns North American Mushroom Extracts, or namx. And so we get all of our powdered extracts from him and his company. And all of those powdered extracts are tested for medicinal compounds, heavy metals, any microbes that might be present, and all certified organic. And so I have like my full trust in, in him and, and the mushrooms that that company grows.

Anna, thank you for being here. Where can people find out more about you? We'll put everything in the show notes so that it's all clear.

Oh, great. Yeah, my website, drones.com or the Lucidum Medicinals website is Lucidum Medicinals.com I'm also on Instagram as Dr. Ana Sitkaf.

Okay, awesome.

Well, pleasure to meet you. Thank you. It's always fun to talk mushrooms.

Yeah, yeah.

And I can't wait. Spring. So I'm hoping that I can go out and forge a little bit and see what's out there. Although spring around here.

All right, thank you for joining us for this episode of the Feel Freaky Amazing Podcast. And for the listeners this is Anna Sitkoff, who is an expert in mushrooms and all things super cool about human health. So, Anna, thank you for being with us today.

Thank you so much for having me.

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