Repair Your Gut Microbiome with Food, with Dr. Mahmoud Ghannoum

When we talk about nutritional supplements, it's supplements for a situation we are trying to improve. But really once you have your gut symptoms back to normal, you feel good and this sort of thing, I don't think you need to continue to do it. But to me, the most important thing is try to have the right diet, the exercise, the lifestyle.

If you want to live like you matter, ditch the pills, look great and feel freaking amazing. You're in the right place. I'm Dr. Wendy Trubo. And I'm Dr. Ed Levitan. Welcome to the feel freaking amazing podcast where we empower you to live a vibrant and healthy life by optimizing your structural, chemical, emotional, social and spiritual lives.

Hold on to your hats.

Hello and welcome to this episode of the five journeys Feel freaking amazing podcast. Ed got pulled into another meeting, so I'm on my own. And he's missing a really cool interview because. Because we have Dr. Mahmoud Ghanoum. He is a microbiome scientist known for naming the microbiome and he's co founder of biome. He's dedicated the last 40 years to microbiome research, publishing over 500 peer reviewed papers. He's been cited into over 29,000 scientific papers and he discovered more than 100 native species of fungi in the oral cavity. So brace yourselves because this is going to be really fun and cool. Dr. Kohnum, welcome. I'm so excited to have you here. This is a really cool topic.

Topic. Oh, thank you very much for having me. I'm really looking forward to it. And as you said, we are going to have fun.

We totally are. All right, my first question is people understand probiotics, right? Like Lactobacillus strains. It's easy to think about when you think about prebiotics. I think there's often a lot of just lack of knowledge or unsurity or confusion. Even so, can you talk more about prebiotics? And I'm personally a huge fan of eat your way to health. That's actually a program we made called eat your way to health. So can you talk about prebiotics as a group and certainly a pill form, but also what are the ways we know we're getting it in the way we're eating. If we say, okay, focus on these five to 10 foods, what would they be?

First of all, let's define what is prebiotic? Prebiotic is it's basically as you said, it's food. It's the this food that can feed our good bacteria and our good yeast. And because when we feed them as you, as we said, they will start doing good things to us, keep the bad guys down, produce these small molecules and they help us. So basically the prebiotic, unlike the probiotic, which is live organisms, live bacteria and live fungus, these are food, food ingredient. And this includes fibers, for example. And in this regard, like I tell people, you know, the best thing to do is start to eat, like oatmeal, for example, eat lentils, it has a lot of fibers. Beans are also great. So this type of food, we as humans in the intestine, we don't break it down. Who breaks it down are these microorganisms that live in our gut. They are the ones that will break it down. And by breaking it down, it really is helping us. Bananas, for example, towards the unripened side of bananas also is very good. You need to eat good proteins. Of course, this could come from chicken, from salmon fish, for example, is fantastic. So all of this you need to take together in addition to some, you know, herbs and some spices. Turmeric, for example, garlic, I love garlic, you know, and you laugh, you laugh at that because, you know, I'm from the Middle east and we eat Mediterranean food, you know, Mediterranean food, a lot of garlic, lemon, and guess what, the oil, you know, olive oil. It's fantastic. So all of this should give you an idea how we should really eat, I hope.

Tell me about banana skins. When someone just said to me that they actually take unripe bananas and throw the whole thing in their smoothie. And I was like, wait, I always peel my bananas, but should we be washing and then using the skin? Because that seems like it'll blend up.

You know, I really, I, I personally, I'll go with unlipened banana, like peel it and use the inside. I mean, a lot of the time people talk about even apples, the apples, the skin in the apple is really very good. Lemon, for example, if you, you know, I remember when I was a young kid, we used to have, you know, you have a lot of orange groves and lemon groves. We take it, but. And then we used to sort of get rid of the yellow part and then you can eat it. So, you know, there are ways you can eat the skin of stuff. I really did not experience the banana skin. I think I would go towards banana before it start to have these brown spots. Then you are going to have a lot of complex carbs there and you will get the benefit. And if you want to eat skin, listen, other fruits with the skin, such as, again, we go back into apple is really good idea. Oh, One last thing I always love to tell people to do is to eat nuts. You know, I love pistachio, for example, especially at, at 10:00', clock, 11:00 clock during the day, because I have breakfast early, I get hungry, so I have some of these nuts. These have been shown to be great for your microbiome and will help you really balance the gut.

So it's so funny you talk about pistachios. I love pistachios. And pistachios and peanuts are really high in mold levels. So what do you tell people who are trying to balance their microbiome with, with their hunger? I always say to people, peanut butter is my least favorite snack because it's so moldy and it's often very sugary. So what do you tell people? What's a girl to do?

You know what I do? Usually I buy. Of course you have to look because you worry about mold and fungus. As long as look, you can see all the time. I say look at the product, get it fresh. And if you store it a lot of the time, sometimes we leave it in the cupboard for the weeks and you say, oh, I have, have not. That's not a good idea. Get small portions you eat and finish it quickly. And also make sure it is not highly salted. I try to get it not salted or even lightly salted is fine, but the benefit of them is really very, very huge, provided you watch. I mean, especially you hit a subject which, you know, I like. I can't tell myself I'm a fungi. So I love fungus, you know, but, but with fungus, like when you are having fruits, for example, we all buy fruits and you see sometimes there is a little bit of fungus growing. So people come and cut the piece and they say, no, if you see a fruit with a little bit of fungus, just throw it away. The same with respect to the nuts and this sort of thing, because even though you don't see it in the other parts, it could have already penetrated. So just try to get fresh stuff, watch it, don't have it forever and come back. And I know some people, sometimes it's like me, I remember my mom telling me, you have to eat everything, you know, you have to finish everything. And sometimes they, no, no, I don't have to finish everything also because it's been in the cupboard for long, don't have it, it's not worth it. Try to get smaller portion, Buy smaller portions so that you eat them and then when you need more, you can get more.

Yeah, I'm, I'm a huge. I'm, I'm very, what's the word? Vigilant around rancid foods. I have a particular nose for them. So the kids will come to me like, is this good? I'm like, oh my God, no, don't eat that because the oil is rancid. And that's even worse for you. Okay, let me ask you something, because I talk on glyphosate and I know that glyphosate preferentially impacts actually E. Coli and beneficial bacteria in the gut. It's not impacting salmonella and other pathologic strains. So I was thinking about, you didn't mention artichokes. And I always think of artichokes as a really good source of prebiotic fibers, but it's very difficult to get them organic. They often come conventionally grown. So now I'm thinking, okay, I'm getting my prebiotic fiber, but I'm getting a dose of glyphosate if I'm eating that. So how do you advise people to navigate the doing good for their body? But is the glyphosate negating the impact of the prebiotics because of the impact it has on the bacteria in the gut?

You know, this is really very, very interesting topic because now everybody talk about organic stuff and this sort of thing, which I really understand and I think it's good. The problem is the availability of this product, the expense of it. They are very expensive. And also sometimes we are seeing even reports now about some organic. Even though they define them organic, they are not really organic. So you have to go back to the source, make sure what they are. So to me, look, it's very difficult to avoid all of these things by going toward organic. Having said that, we can use the regular vegetables, the regular stuff, as long as again, you are more mindful. Like if there is something locally grown, for example, you know, it's much better than who knows where it comes from, you know the source. So you need to be judicious in what you select. If you can afford it and you know it is good organic, that's great to have. But look, as long as you are going towards more healthy type of plants, asparagus, you know, mushrooms, all of these things will help you to avoid the side effects that you may have because of preservatives and other components.

I think this is a good place to put a plug in for your local community supported agriculture, which has shares that you can buy. And you get a box of vegetables every week and that's Often organically leaning or regeneratively grown and is going to be good for the earth and good for you and local, which means it didn't have to travel. I live in Massachusetts, so a lot of our veggies come from California, which means it has to be shipped across the country, which means it has to be picked at a time before it's ripe and then it has to ripen on the way. So I think there's a lot of ways to make an impact here. Okay. We've talk about prebiotics, probiotics, what are, are there any other things to help people improve their gut. Anything else?

I think I really, in addition to these approaches. Okay. I really encourage people to start doing some lifestyle, lifestyle changes as well. You know, like for example, you don't have to exercise so aggressively and so intense. You know, just half an hour, three times a week will be plenty and then you can build it up. So exercise is very, very important. It's important to watch when you eat. Sometimes people say, okay, I'm eating all salad, for example, but the amount of salad, it's huge with everything. And be moderate. Like when you go sometimes travel abroad in Europe and whatever you can, the, the portion of meal is smaller, so try to cut it down a little bit. And I tell you, I personally I'm eating and I love the food meeting and say, oh, I have to stop now. So you have to, you have to talk to yourself. In addition, stress is very important. So I would go diet. If you need supplements, it's good to have some vitamins. For example, vitamin D3 in particular is very good because what it does, it reduces the proportion or the level of protobacteria which is a pro inflammatory, it cause inflammation. Also cut the sugar down. For Candida. For Candida, studies have shown that if you are deficient in vitamin B and C, then really you will be more likely to have some gastrointestinal issue because of that. So take your multivitamins as well.

Let's talk about supplements a little bit because I know you co founded Biome, which is a supplement company. So tell me about the supplements that you have and how, how they've made a difference and what are you focusing on?

Yeah, what we did, we started to think of supplements when we did our study in Crohn's disease patients and we found that there is the imbalance in Candida as well as the bacteria. My son Hafeev, he told me, dad, we have to start a company because so many people are contacting you to ask you what do we do? What do we do? Especially when they realize we are talking about fungus as well. So we started a company called, as you said, Biome Health. And in it we really designed a probiotic. Our first product, designed a probiotic so that it can keep bacteria and fungus under control. And Candida tropicalis, when it is in our gut, together with E. Coli and serratium are two bacteria. They come together and they form what we call biofilm. It's like the plaque in our teeth. And when they do that, guess what happens? They become resistant to antibiotics, they become resistant to our immune cells, and then they start to cause trouble to our gut lining. So we did what you call correlation analysis. And we found which microorganisms good guys can keep the bad guys down. And we came out with four different probiotic strains and we tested them against can they break down this biofilm or the plaque and lo and behold, they were able to do it. And we added an enzyme, amylase, which have been shown to do that as well. And the good news is when you come with a formulation, then you need to validate it. Really do you have scientific support? So we did what you call preclinical in vitro stuff in the test tube and we showed, we break biofilm, then we did in animal models to make sure that they really do it in humans. Because sometimes when you do a test in the test tube, it may give you good results, but you are not sure. But really, most importantly, we did two clinical trials which we showed we are able to reduce these organisms and reduce Candida in particular. That's one study. In the other study, we looked at the gut symptoms and we really reduce bloating, flatulence, abdominal discomfort, you know, as a primary endpoint. So we were very happy with that data and we are now, you know, we have that probiotic Biome effects in the market. And there are other products which we have. Remember we talked about we need to have the right minerals, we need to have the right vitamins. So we have also different products. So to answer your question, really, Biome is a science based company. When we want to come out with a product, we need to validate it, we need to show the data that it works and then everybody is happy. You know, I am a professor and all the time in my life I help other companies develop their drugs. And you know, you have to have evidence. Sometimes it's so funny, you know, some companies you don't, you know, you do a test and it doesn't work. You say, look, I'm Sorry, it doesn't work, you know, and of course they got upset. But what can you do? We need scientific, that's the fact, you know, And I'm sorry, I know, I love that the product could have worked, but if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. So that's where you have a science based company that can develop nutritional supplements based on the evidence. And that's what Biome does best. In addition, we started a gut testing where people send us stool sample. We look at not only bacteria, but also at the fungus. And we look at is there, is your gut imbalanced? If you are imbalanced, we say that's great. We have nutritionists that can basically help you recommend what it is or they guide you. And really if you are imbalanced, that's great, keep going what you are doing. If not, we look at, okay, what sort of things based on your questionnaire, okay, cut the sugar, do a little bit exercises, stress the things which we talked about. And really this is what is allowing us to collect so much data. And now we are using this data to come out of the new product. It's really exciting time.

It's really cool. So I know what something that my patients ask me a lot, which is, do I have to stay on this for forever? Because. And I'm, I'm always like, well, if it. I can argue it both ways, right? If you're low in something that indicates that you should just be taking it. And then there are some things that I think is an opinion. This is my opinion. So this is not fact, this is opinion that things like fish oil and vitamin D are staples for people that, especially in the northeast, where we're not getting the sun and then we're putting on sunscreen, we're not getting the vitamin D that we need. And, and that those are staples like, and maybe a B complex. But do you need to take this forever? Do you take it until you feel better and then you stop? Or is it like a detox or you do it once a quarter. How does it work?

This is really very, very good question. Thank you for asking it to me. When we talk about nutritional supplement, it's supplements for a situation we are trying to improve. But really once you have your gut symptoms back to normal, you feel good and this sort of thing, I don't think you need to continue to do it. But if you take antibiotic, for example, you know, you are killing the good guys. So this is a good time to take it after you finish your probiotic. But Then to me the most important thing is try to have the right diet after that, the diet, the exercise, the lifestyle. Once you have this, then you don't have to do it. So I don't think we should use it forever. But you need to take it when you need it and when you are in good balance, you don't have to take it. But then you can come back to it if you feel, you know what, I need a little bit of support. You know, I'm down, I'm stressed a little bit. I need to do this. So that's the way I look at it.

I think that's the biggest challenge is because when someone gets to a point of a diagnosis where, okay, I've got this, I've got this trifecta of terrible bacteria that have made the, made the biofilm and you treat that, you still have the underlying issues that led to the problem. So it's really important, like fix the way you're eating because that led to the problem. Manage your stress because that led to the problem. Ensure you sleep and move your body because those led to the. So, so you can't, I always say to people, like, the best supplements in the world are not going to fix a terrible lifestyle. You know, maybe it'll help a little bit, but you have to fix the way that you've created the problem. And that's not to blame you. It's just the way you live contributes to how you feel.

I, I really, you put it beautifully. Honestly, like this is what it is. Look, we are all responsible for our health, okay? We need to adjust it. But again, it's in our hand. If I'm not eating well, like I personally, even though I come from eating Mediterranean diet, I changed my diet now and towards two got like I adding more nuts even though I used to eat some before, but now I have it more regular. I do more, I do exercise more, you know, so you are absolutely right. Sometimes we need to take responsibility ourselves. Say, okay, look, you know what? I am using this supplement. It's helping me, let me change a little bit. And you don't have to have drastic change slowly. Take your time, you know, and then you will be successful and you are going to be healthy.

I hope we're totally on the same page. I love this. I should have someone on who I totally disagree with to see how I can get to common ground. Is there anything I didn't ask you that you want to make sure that we tell people? Is there anything missing from what we talked about?

I think honestly you did a great job in the questions and I think we answered. But to me to finish, I am an optimistic person. I think we are coming into a great time always where we are starting to understand more and more about our gut health and I think this is great because if we take care of this, guess what, we are going to have a better life and we prevent a lot of diseases down the line. I hope so. It's exciting times and I am an optimistic person and just take care of yourself and it will be great.

Good. Thank you for being here. Where can people find out about you?

They can go Biome Health. We have a lot of information there. Also, I am professor at Case Western Reserve University and University Hospitals. If people like to reach out to me or through Biome, I'll be more than happy to help them in any way, shape or form.

Awesome. And we'll put all those links that you referenced in the show notes so people can just look at those. All right y', all, thank you for joining us for another episode of the Feel Freaking Amazing podcast. My guest, our guest, even though my partner is not here, is Dr. Mahmoud Ghanoum. He's an expert in the mycobiology biome and as co founder of Biome Health. Thank you for being here. This, this. We said we would have fun and we had fun and this was great. So thank you very much for being here.

Thank you for having me inspire and.

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