Yudu Gray, Jr from 247artists.com Speaks With Wendy Day

You do great, Wendy Day.

How are our names rhyme? Oh my God, our names rhyme!

Let's take it on the road, Wendy.

Let's do it. Oh my God, if you and I went on the road, we would be so dangerous.

We would.

Dear God, could you imagine? We would just be educating people all over. Drive-by education, drive-by education, drive-by education. That's it. We'd be gangster with it.

Amen.

How are you? How's the family?

I'm blessed, we're blessed. Thank you for asking, Wendy. How are you?

I'm good, I'm good. I really can't complain. Good.

Yay!

So let's just dive in. Will you, will you tell us a little bit about 24/7 Artists? It's so fucking brilliant.

Oh, thank you, Wendy. Uh, well, yeah, so 24/7 Artists, it is the extension of everything that I've done, everything my wife Davina and I have done for the last 15 years. Uh, I have to give you the background because then it makes sense.

Exactly. And your passion will come through because the one thing I noticed when I first met you— and shout out to Manny Wells for introducing us— um, the first thing I noticed when I met you was how incredibly passionate you are. And, and it fired me up because it reminded me of when I was that passionate about Rap Coalition, and it just re-sparked it, and off I went.

Well, remind me to use the word passion. Its timing is perfect, especially as it relates to Manny. Um, so remind me later to like just bring it up, and I'll tell you why that's full circle today of all days.

Awesome. I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna make a note. Um, and I owe Manny a phone call, so I'm really glad we're talking about him.

But not— so, uh, I started as an audio engineer, producer, uh, intern, at a studio in Bethesda, Maryland in 2008. I'm going to age myself because now I have gray hair here. I can do that. And I realize it's actually a plus in my business to show that you've done it for a while at this point, especially when you're raising money. Especially when you're raising money. Um, so don't let the boy's look fool you. I'm in my 40s. But, uh, I started as an intern. Uh, I ran track and field professionally, uh, for my country of Liberia, West Africa. I got injured in 2008, and track was not my passion. So when you use the word passion, like, track was like a means to an end. It was how I was going to get my, uh, scholarship to go to college. It was how I was going to put some food on the table, but it wasn't the thing that I loved to do. I didn't think about it when I wasn't doing it, and I dreaded when I had to do it. So when I had the injury, it was almost like an answered prayer because it was the first time I didn't have to worry about being the athlete or running. In that time, I was trying to figure out what's next. I talked to my uncle, who's, you know, mentor, big brother to me, and I was just like, I really don't know what to do. And he, he asked me a question that changed my life forever. Said, if you won the lottery, what would you do in 6 months? And the reason he said that was like, if you won the lottery and you bought the car, you bought your game systems, and you bought your shoes and all the, you know, stuff that you feel like is missing, after a while you'd have a bunch of money in the account, a bunch of stuff, and then you'd have to figure out what you want to do every day when you wake up. And no one had ever framed life like that for me before. And I just found myself like trying to figure out what does that look like? And the first word that popped in my head was music. Um, and the only reason that was is music has always been a part of my life. It's always been an escape. It's always been the thing that got me through tough times. It's been the, the constant in my life, um, which has been very turbulent as long as I remember. And so I was like, I don't know what it is, but it'd be in music somehow. And he said, well, go figure out how to make a life in music. 'Go figure out how to make a life in music.' Such a powerful phrase to tell a young 20-something-year-old kid.

Your uncle is brilliant because I'm sure when you were in your 20s, it wasn't an era— or maybe it was— was it an era where there was a lot of money in music? Because he was— like, most parents back then would tell their kids, 'Don't go into music. You're never going to make any money. You're going to be a bum.' So that's really cool that he inspired you.

Yeah, no, that, that was, you know, a testament to my— I'll give it— Bill is his name. I know he doesn't like public, uh, shoutouts, so I'll just give his first name. But my Uncle Bill, uh, was the one who asked that question. Go figure, gotta make a life in music. So I went to all the studios in the DC, Maryland, Virginia area, the DMV. At the time it was like 5, you know, at the time there were no home studios. So think 2008, there aren't any home studios. You don't go to the homie's house to record. You had to go to a real studio to record.

Technology wasn't there yet.

Tech wasn't there yet. So I go to the 5 studios in the area, and I don't have a resume. I don't know how to engineer. I barely know how to produce. Like, I don't know anything. All I know is I want to do this.

You are so sweeping the floors.

I walk in, I'm like, yo, I want a job. And, and this is, like you said, 2008 was when the industry was tanking because this is at the peak of like Napster, Kazaa, LimeWire.

Like, there was no Spotify yet.

There wasn't Spotify yet, right?

Like, there's no Apple Music, there's no streaming, nothing.

Like, it's all bootleg, it's all bootleg. Like, you know, we flipping CDs and selling them and burning them and all that. But like, that's the world that existed. So studios were losing money, and so no studio was looking for paid or free work. They were trying to figure out how to survive. Yeah, last studio I visited was called Avalon Sound Studio in Bethesda, Maryland. I go in and I say, I want a job. And they're like, yeah, we're not hiring. And I said, all right, well, I'm not leaving until y'all hire me. And I'm not saying you got to pay me, I just want to be a part of this. And they were like, look here, like, we can't hire you, you'll be a liability, like, get out of here. That was the answer. And I said, all right, like, so I just sit on the couch and people are coming in and out and I'm like trying to figure out like what's the play, like what am I gonna do, like I'm like at a quarter-life crisis at this point.

Yeah.

And I was like, all right, I know what I'm gonna do. The studio was filthy. All studios back then were dirty. That was like the standard. I went to my mom's house, I got her vacuum cleaner, cleaning supplies, and I came back the next day and I cleaned the studio. And I cleaned it, Wendy, like it smelled like Pine-Sol, it was shiny. I vacuumed the carpet, the couches, the console. I didn't even go into the studio, and this is just like the lounge area.

Oh shit.

The owner came in and he was like, yo, who cleaned up? And they all pointed to me on the couch and was like, he did. And he was like, well, who hired him? They were like, oh, we thought you sent him. And because I might have said that I was sent to clean. And he was like, what do you want? And I was like, well, yesterday I came by, I said I wanted, you know, to work with y'all. They said y'all weren't hiring, so I just figured I'm gonna come and clean every couple days until y'all like bring me in.

Yeah, until you find a use for me.

So you find a use for me. And he literally was like, all right man, I'll do your deal. Don't touch anything, don't break anything. If you can come in and do this a couple times a week, you know, maybe you can sit in some sessions with like people that we know. Oh nice, that's all I needed was just that, that crack of the door.

The door cracked open, that was it.

So call it not even a month later, the owner gave me the keys to the building and was like, all right, I need you to start opening and closing, uh, can you do that? I got it. I'm sitting on the couch, I'm, you know, running, I'm sweeping floors, I'm doing whatever I have to do, and I'm noticing like the phone rings and no one answers it. And again, I'm dating myself, but Back in the day, if you wanted to go to the studio, you would have to pick up the phone and call, because most— almost no studios at the time had online payment processing or booking or any of that.

Didn't exist.

Yeah, you look in the Yellow Pages or you'd search on Yelp, you find a studio, you pick up the phone call, you book the time, you'd go to the studio if you had to make a deposit, and then— or you go and make your payment, and then that's how you conduct the business. Most studios didn't have front desk people if they weren't the major studios. If you weren't working at Sony or Warner or Daddy's House, it was too expensive. Too expensive. So the engineers doubled as the people answering the phones, and if they're in session, busy. So I just realized, like, after a while and after seeing how they book sessions, I started answering the phones, and that was literally like how I created my position. I started answering phones and revenue went up. So they were like, wait a minute, like, what happened this month? And I was like, oh well, I started answering the phone and just charging people, and people started coming in. So then he— I got tasked with like, yo, start depositing the money at the end of the day. Cash business, that's a lot of trust to put in a 20-something-year-old kid you just met. Every night I would walk down, deposit the cash, come back, update the ledger. So that was my start, Wendy Day. Fast forward, I become studio manager. Studio's closing. 2008, 2009, all of the major studios in smaller markets were struggling because the business model for a recording studio then was simple. You would basically get POs, purchase orders, from the labels at the top of the year or the end of the year. Around this time, you would start getting the purchase orders for next year, and the labels had their budgets for the year. And within those budgets, studio was, was a baked number. So the, the artists had like studios that they enjoyed If artists went on the road, there were relationships that the labels had that you could go to the studio, and the labels would basically pre-book time to use whenever they wanted to that next year. And not a little bit of money, you're talking $500,000, $600,000, $700,000, $800,000 from one label, and you might have 3 or 4 of those label relationships. That's how those studios got those big consoles and those big speakers.

How they stayed afloat.

That, that's how they stayed afloat. And you could take that purchase order as a studio and get a bank line of credit or a loan to basically cover until you got paid, you know, after the sessions. And I got to see how that side of the business worked. But when the, the Kazaa, LimeWire, the torrent sites crushed the industry and it started shrinking, this label started cutting back and they were like, all right, we're only really going to record in New York, LA, Nashville, maybe Miami.

Maybe Miami.

We're not recording in DC, we're not recording in Philly, we're not recording in Houston. Like Chicago, Chicago, right? Detroit, right? Like those markets, those studios hurt. And so I had an offer from the owner to buy the studio at the time. I think it was like $100,000. To me, that was like saying a billion dollars. Like, I didn't have nowhere near that. And I was like, I don't— like, I can't do it. So the studio closed. And in that time, Wendy Day, I had started running sessions overnight. The studio couldn't pay me, so the deal I worked out with the owner was, I'll run the business in the day, I'll make sure you make your money, make sure we're operational, make sure we're good. But overnight, I'm gonna work with the local artists, because the day business was labels. It was— we did a lot of, uh, voiceover work, did a lot of like audiobook work. Um, like we did like synagogues, and pastors would come by and record sermons, like That was like the day-to-day bread for this business. The nighttime for me was the homies coming in, recording the work that I really wanted to work on. And those homies were people like Wale and Rahim Devon and like the people in DC that I was fans of. So I built a really healthy Rolodex of artists and managers and producers and musicians in DC. But now I don't have a studio. The studio's closed. My wife Davina and I were dating at the time. We just started dating. She lived in Atlanta. And I was originally going to move to Atlanta to build a studio. That was because Atlanta just started bubbling. My boy Tone P had just moved down here. He was working with Future and like a bunch of really talented people, uh, Roscoe Dash, like, and he's telling me like, bro, you need to come down here. What you doing over there? Yeah, down here we gonna blow. So I'm getting ready to move to Atlanta. I got a new girlfriend, we thinking about getting serious. She comes up one weekend and she sees the impact that we have because she's meeting the people we're working with and the business owners. And she's like, nah, you can't leave this. I'mma move up here. So she moves with her 5-year-old daughter, our daughter, and she's like, I don't know what it is, but we'll start the studio together up here. Wendy, we don't have a pot to piss in. We don't have credit. We don't have anything. We don't have a business plan. But I knew this model would work. God being God, one of the clients/partners at the old studio in Bethesda reaches out and was like, hey— he was a banker— he's like, hey, I've got a, a client at the bank, he has a building he just bought, it's empty throughout the day, he runs a nonprofit 2 days a week, like 3 hours each time, and it just sits. I think he'd be willing to have you work your studio out of there. So we start our studio, House Studios, literally walking into a building and sharing it with a nonprofit, education nonprofit, I'm, I'm tied in, and we launch House Studios 2010. Right place, right time. Wale just got his deal, he's killing it. Logic starting to bubble, we're his home studio whenever he needs a studio. Shy Glizzy, Fatrel, Ari Lennox, you name it, everybody coming out the DMV, we're the home base. And it just seems like there's something in the water in House Studios. Right place, right time. But I took everything that I learned at Avalon from a business standpoint, how to run a studio, how the business works, the relationships I built with the labels and the marketing companies and the lawyers. And we turned that into a machine at House. Um, the nonprofit needed a lot of help. We, we felt bad because we would see these kids come in. It was an after-school program for youth in the DC area, and we talked to the owner and we're like, look, we'll take over the nonprofit. And we ended up running that nonprofit for 2 years. We, uh, we got mayor awards and all that, and basically we converted a nonprofit into a work study program where these kids would come in and do their homework for an hour a day. We got local artists to come in and do the homework with the students in exchange for studio time.

Oh shit!

In exchange, the students would be able to intern in the studio and learn certain skills. They learn engineering, they learn photography, video editing. You know, studio management, artist management, and they were really a part of these projects. So that was early on, we were doing that in our studio, 2011, 2012, 2013. By 2015, I have a concept for what I called like a studio hotel. Um, I didn't know anything about WeWork at the time. I, I— later it became like the WeWork of studios. But the concept for me was I wanted to get a really big building cut it up into a bunch of rooms, um, rent the rooms out on a credit basis and have like a membership model where based on how many credits you have, you can get room— different room sizes, different types of rooms. We had practice rooms, we had recording rooms, writing rooms. We wanted like a live performance space, practice space for that, a beautiful A-room, rooms you could rent by the month. So I started working on this concept, and again, how do you get the money to buy a building and build this out? I meet a partner, they love the idea, they come in and start investing to build out this vision. One thing I've learned in business, learned it the hard way, when you're partnering with someone, make sure that your whys align, right?

You—

and, and there's no right or wrong, but there's definitely— if your whys don't align, the partnership will run its course. And that's business and in life. So absolutely, our whys did not align, and after 4 years of trying, we just didn't see any momentum. We sold our shares in the company and moved to Atlanta. So fast forward 10 years, I end up moving to Atlanta anyways. We moved to Atlanta and the pandemic happens. So we moved to Atlanta, we sold our company. The idea now is take the money from that sale, build a studio in Atlanta, get back to our roots, and like, let's, let's go. We sell the company March 1st, 2020. Pandemic hits like 15 days, 14 days later. We got money in the bank. We got a little bit of time to spend with our family now. As entrepreneurs, that's everything. Got to reconnect as a husband and wife and with our kids. But now how do you build a building? How do you build a business that's brick and mortar? How do you build a studio when the world shut down and people aren't going outside? Although Atlanta did open up. I was gonna say Atlanta, Atlanta was outside.

Yes, we were.

So then I started helping people on calls. Like every week I would just get on calls with artists, Manny being one of them.. And it grew from like one artist to 3 to 5 to 10 to 50. We started doing Clubhouse rooms and we'd bring like folks like Wale and our circle in to talk about the business of music. And, and it was a shock to me for the first time being outside of the brick and mortar, outside of our studio, how many people didn't really understand how things worked. Like, I, I wasn't exposed to that massive number of artists and managers who were all like, completely blind. Yes, to the business, because I—

superstars don't know how this works. Superstars, lazy to me. Yes.

And so I was like, all right, like, we're gonna figure out how to teach these people and give them the tools to execute simple things, like give them split sheets and show them how publishing works and show them how to manage your catalog and what does it mean to own your masters.

And yes, and why, why do you want that?

Why do you want them? And what is the value of them? And how do you build a team? And how do you structure your first management deal? And all that. So we started teaching, and then I was like, look, like, I can't scale this because I'm on call 6 hours a day. Well, first, before I even said we start a business, I would do that like 6 hours a day, then I would stop, and then I would be like, all right, V, I got to figure out what we're going to do next. And for about a month, she, she let me ride with that. And after a month, I think I drove her crazy, and she was like, you do— what the hell are you talking about? You spend 6 hours a day passionately helping people that are willing to pay you, that want to pay you, and you keep turning them down because you feel like you're doing this for the artist. And then when you're done, you'll be like, what do I do next for my career? The thing that you wake up and you're passionate to do is your career.

It's your career.

Make that the thing. That was how 24/7 Artist was born.

I love it. You just have to figure out how to monetize it and monetize it.

And then I'll stop there to say that that's the backstory. So I know you said tell them about 24/7. Yeah, tell the what this is without you understanding the journey to get there.

Agreed.

We've been teaching from day one and we've been learning from day one. And now that we're in a space where 24/7 Artists, we're music tech platform. We support independent artists and their teams with education, with tools, and with community. And our mission is to help a million creators become sustainable through their art. I believe it's possible now more than ever. It is to figure out how to make a living doing what you love and what you're passionate about. I think the day and era of gatekeepers is gone. I think the direct access is more readily available, and I believe it's easier to learn and, and to execute today than it's ever been. There's more competition for sure, but I just think the pot is too big and there's too many ways to make money to not figure it out. If you're an artist, a manager, a producer, musician, agent, whatever you are, you can figure it out if you put the work in. So our job is to help you do that, again, using education, using tools, and using community.

I love that you said if you put the work in, and that's, you know, I've been doing this 33 years, and that is the defining factor. Like, if I had to attribute artist success to one thing more than talent, more than having a proper budget, you have to put the work in.

Yeah, without a doubt. It's— I mean, we had a grant program, so Manny's going to be a running theme in the show, but we had a program where we gave artists a week in the studio, radio time. We shot music videos, did brand development work. We got them signed up with Grammy. We got them signed up with SoundExchange. And like, we did a bunch of stuff. We started this program unofficially like 2014, '15. So like Ari Lennox and, and Logic and those guys were like the first wave. And then by the time we refined it was when Manny came in like 2016, 2015, 2016. Uh, Manny was the only artist to ever get a perfect score. We weren't the judges. We brought in a bunch of our industry friends to judge, and the artist submitted an application, a written application. They had to literally mail it in., and then the judges would vote, and then the top artists would be reviewed. We do like a whole lunch, we'd play the music, they, they debate it, talk about it, they'd score, and then the top 6 artists would get it every year. And we close our studio down 6 weeks every year to provide these artists this back talent. The reason I wanted like that work part is of all the artists we worked with in those years, Manny's work ethic is what stuck out at me. And that was one of— we had— we call these things intangibles. The voting system for this was based on like, you know, creativity and do they stand out and, you know, their music, musicality. But like work ethic was my most important one. If you were below a 9 on that out of 10, I didn't even listen to the music because why waste your time? You're not willing to put the work in. If you think your manager or the label or someone else is going to be the reason you make it, you've already failed.

Agreed.

Yeah, so Manny got a 10, which is why we still work with him. Plus, he's very, very persistent, so I don't think he would allow us not to work with him.

Agreed. Yeah, he's persistent, he's talented, but he does the work without it feeling like it's an obligation. Like, he does the work, and, and I always joke because I have the same work ethic, I joke and tell people I have nothing else to do. You know what I mean? But it's not that. It's that there's something inside of him that forces him to just go harder and do one more thing, one more thing, one more thing. Yeah. And that's what builds success— consistency and work ethic. Yeah. And you need some money. You can't do this without money.

I, I love that, that when you write your second or third book, that's got to be— and you need some money— I think that's got to be the title of your because I feel like that's the Wendy Day, and you need some money, and you need some money.

I'm gonna— I'm writing that down because I need a title. I'm actually writing it now.

Whatever your title is, it should be your title, and then, and you need some money after.

Exactly, exactly. That's funny. Um, you said so— I took half a page of notes just in, in this short section, but I want to hone in on, um Debina, because choosing the right life partner is so crucial to being successful as a female in this industry. Most of my friends are male, right? Most of them are Black males because that's this industry. And I find that most of my friends choose women based on a fat ass or a pretty face, or, you know, she gets great weed, or she'll support him. Like, it's a, it's a bevy of stupid-ass reasons to partner up with somebody. Yeah. So when I meet somebody, and I'd say that's like a good 95% of my friends, right? So when I meet up with somebody and they introduce me to their girl or their wife, I'm in my head, I'm always like, yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever. And then when I met Davina, I was like, what?

I remember I remember.

Could you speak a little bit to how important it is to have a partner or even friendships with people that are like-minded and can help you advance? Because I've seen so many guys self-destruct because they're surrounded by the wrong people.

I mean, I'll say this, for business owners, the most important decision you will make is who you partner with. By far. Like, it is— if there's a list of 10 things, it is the top 8 things on, on the list. And I think in life, I feel like it's the same, right? I feel like it is, um, right? The most expensive lesson you'll learn in life is the wrong life partner. And that's, you know, if you think about 50%— almost 50% of people in the world get divorced. You go out there, you work hard, you build something, and then you lose 50% of it because you guys just don't align. You're not the right fit, that's— that— I don't know if there's a more expensive mistake you'll ever make or decision you'll make in your life. So that's from a money standpoint, but from like a sanity standpoint, right before we got on, V and I were talking, and, and I— like we were saying, and it goes to the passion thing, it's all connecting. Today's a good day. Uh, Davina was the first real person in my life as an adult, um, that I felt I could be my full real self with. She's the first person that I could even risk being my full self with. And I say that word risk because I don't know who's going to watch this or when they're going to watch it or hear it, but if you think about it, like, how many people in the world are you your real full self that you could say exactly how you feel at any given time? You never have to think twice or filter it or adjust how you say it because you're worried about something. You could just be yourself.

I had a best friend that I could say anything to him, and I knew I wasn't being judged. I was safe. I was supported.

Yeah, that's a super important relationship. And for that to be your life partner, your, your, your person you, you wake up to, the person that you, you go through the war with How amazing is that? That's the biggest blessing. And I don't know if I— let's say I don't know. I'll say at this point now, I know I would not have put the battery in my own back to even go after the dreams that I had suppressed for years. Like, I, I had so many ideas that were nuggets of an idea early on in my 20s and even in my late 20s that I never would have taken the leap of faith to even try to do. And I did some amazing shit, but like That was almost me, like, on the throttle. I never went full speed because I was so afraid of the what-if. And Davina was really the first person that I felt I could go all out, and even if I crash, she's got me.

Yes.

It's not that I was like, oh, like, we're gonna make it because we're together. It was more the, like, I don't mind looking stupid in front of you. Like, I don't mind this failing in front of you because we'll figure it out together. And that as a partner is the best gift I've ever had. It's, it's, it's— there is no House without Davina because her moving up put the battery in my back. There is no 24/7 Artist without Davina, without her saying like, you do that, that's the thing. The beautiful children we have and the parents we become, that the parent that I am, I wouldn't be that parent without her. Like, she had to teach me how to become the parent that I am because I am wired in a way where I can work and shut out the world.

Me too.

That's my phone, not going on vacation. I don't have to go to the bar, I don't have to travel, like I don't have to do much if I'm working. And she taught me how to like shut that off, learn how to be a father, and like find passion in that equally. So that it's like, work, I know you got to do that, I know that fills your cup, but learn how to unplug from that and then pour into your kids the same way. Yes. More importantly, pour into yourself that way. Like learn how to do that for you You never do that. Like, you do need to go on vacation, and you do need to stop. You do need to enjoy things, and you can have— you can enjoy your success. You don't have to feel guilty for the things that you do well. And correct, all of that I learned from Davina. So having that as a partner, any success I've ever had since I've met her, and any success we continue to have, 1,000% goes to Davina. Because without her, I know— not even I think, I know I would have played smaller, and I would have, I would have lived a life of what-ifs.

Amazing, amazing. And kudos to you for learning that lesson early. You know, I, I didn't, I didn't learn the importance of having a good partner. I, I didn't learn that until shit until I met Tony in my 50s, you know, and we didn't make it, but I didn't learn that lesson until my 50s. And that's sad because to me a partner was just somebody to have fun with. And I'm a severe workaholic. So because I couldn't commit to my personal side, I ruined every relationship I had. Yep. But they were there to bring fun and escape. Yeah. And distraction. They weren't necessarily there to build with.

Yeah.

So I'm, I'm really thankful I finally learned it though.

Yeah. No, it, and it, it translates. You, you said something like it's, it's, you know, that's a life partner, but even our other partner Casey, who you met, is, you know, a blessing for us both. Like when we've gone through tough things with our company, to have someone you can pick up the phone and be like, yo Casey, like it's tough right now, we got to figure it out and know like he's riding, he's there, he's, he's gonna make it happen, make it work. He's got you back fully. He will do whatever, and vice versa for him. A blessing. And then even beyond that, like, someone like you— this week, transparently called you like, yo, Wendy, like, I'm in a jam, like, what do I do? Like, I, I have a circle now of people that you can lean on. I can lean on Meg from Symphony's one that I've— yo, Meg, like, I'm struggling right now, like, just give me some advice. Like, am I crazy? Like, 20-year-old me, like, I would have hid every emotion and every fear and every insecurity because you feel like, how can I tell Wendy Day, who I look up to so much, that I'm afraid right now? How could I ever call her and be like, yo, Wendy, I gotta figure this out?

Because Wendy Day is always afraid, and Wendy Day understands. Like, I'm afraid getting up in the morning. I'm afraid when I get in my car. I'm afraid to go to meetings. I'm afraid to meet people. It's— we don't talk about this enough. Like, I live in constant fear. It's just I have very high anxiety. It's who I am. It's why I don't go to, to industry parties. You've probably never seen— I didn't come to your industry party. I got there, I pulled up out front. I heard.

You said, oh no, I heard, I heard.

Oh no, Wendy, like, wait, that's like 500 people in there. Nope, nope, not gonna be able to do that.

You were represented, so, you know, I appreciate you even pulling up.

My team was there. Exactly, exactly. But yeah, like, it's— it— we don't talk enough about how human we are. And once we share our vulnerability with others, it makes it so that we can do that. I called you after, after our meeting and shared some stuff about what's going on with me, and you were super helpful and super supportive. And what you did— and I'm going to use your words because I love this phrase. You put a battery in my back. You gave me a solution that I took. And you put a battery in my back and helped me to— and I can't really talk about it here. But you helped me move forward past being stuck. Because I got stuck in the emotion, the anger and the hurt of what I was going through. And you gave me, okay, I get all that, work it out, get over it. It's normal. But here's what you're going to do going forward. And I was like, yes, that is what I'm going to do going forward. And I put it into action. As soon as we hung up, I started making those calls, and, and it worked out. Like, everything is moving forward beautifully. There's a plan in place.

The power of a great partner is the battery in your back.

Yes.

Because you don't operate at 100% all the time, and you got to— it's a give and take. Like, when I'm at 50%, it feels like V's operating at 150. When she's at 50%, I'm operating at 150. And God, the universe does a good job of making sure that whenever you're charged, it means that someone who needs you is going to come along, and that's why you're fully charged. And whenever you're not charged, whether you call it depression, whether you call it anxiety, whatever it is, or just tired—

sometimes we just get tired because we've done too many days in a row.

Yep, that person will step up for you. And there's days where Davina will be like, yo, don't work today. And for me, that was like blasphemy back in the day. Don't work today? Like, no, like that What am I gonna do? You'll see it before I see it. They're like, oh, you gotta— because if not, you'll crash. And I'll work till I get sick.

Same.

It's like, yo, you like— what good are you now?

You're down for 2 weeks because like you didn't work because you didn't stop for one day. Like, you could have prevented it.

It should be like, let's go to the movies. And I'll be like, yeah, it's a Tuesday at 1. What are you talking about? But then I've— now again, she's boss, so if she says it, I know she sees what I don't. Like, that— what's in the movies?

That's— does she trust it? Let's go.

And then what ends up happening, I walk out the movie theaters and as soon as that sun hits me, I'll have a million ideas hit me. And I'm like, oh, clarity. Like, the thing I've been struggling with, I figured it out. Because she sees that I'm like stewing, I'm sitting, I'm trying to figure this out, I'm stuck, I'm getting frustrated, I'm short, I'm— the kids are talking to me and I'm just saying yeah, but I'm not listening. And like, she sees the signs of like, let's go to the movies today, let's just go get lunch today, let's disconnect from this for, for 2 hours., and it always come back clear. So yeah, the— a great partner, life or otherwise, should be putting a battery in your back. And a red flag, hopefully whoever's watching or listening to this, is if someone in your life is constantly pulling from that, like it feels like they're taking a battery out your back, they're not the right partner.

You're not the right one. Yes.

In however many years, it's never felt like Davina's pulled the battery out my back. Yes, we've poured into each other, but I've never felt like I've gone to her with even my craziest idea, and even if she said not yet, I've never felt like she's taken the battery off my back.

I love that. What a great way to put it. You know, one of the things, um, and I'm going to come back to Manny because I do want to talk about Manny and passion, but one of the things that I noticed about you is, um, I'm on this spiritual journey and it just started 2 years ago, 2 and a half years ago, where I started to focus on myself for the first time in my life. And I started to really get very self-analytical. I started to feel— I know how crazy this sounds, but up until 2 years ago, I had 3 emotions. I had happy, sad, and angry. And to be honest with you, sad just really pissed me off because I don't like to cry. So really, I had happy and angry. And I went into therapy and I started to really learn about myself and I started to feel and I started to do all this other stuff and that took me down this entire path of enlightenment. And one of the things that I noticed about you when I met you and Davina too, um, and Casey even, um, and we didn't talk about this, but I noticed how enlightened you guys were and I noticed how spiritual, and I don't mean religious, I mean spiritual, like you really care about other human beings and I felt Sympatico, um, are you willing to talk about like your journey? Like, do you journal? Do you meditate? Like, how do you balance your life on the spiritual side? Again, I don't mean religious unless you want to talk about that.

No. Well, thank you for calling it out and asking, but no, I'll share gladly and gratefully. So one, I'll say this, like, my life has been one that when I look back and connect the dots I have to know that there's a higher power designing something. Like, there's no— there's too many dots that connect in a crazy way to get me to where I am today that I can't call it chance. I can't call it like it just didn't just happen. I was born in 1980s, uh, to a mother who was, let's say, victim, but she was caught up in the DC— what happened in DC in the '80s with the crack epidemic and lifestyle. Out. So I already am on the— like, if you look at my trajectory at that point, it's not a great trajectory. Like, most kids whose mothers had struggles with addiction in the '80s in Washington, DC did not do well.

Yeah, they're in the system some way or another. They're in this mental health system, justice system, the system.

100%. I go from there. My father, who's in the government in Liberia, I, I'm sent to Liberia. I grow up for a few years in Liberia in a developing nation, but my father's a politician, so, you know, we're safe but not safe. A civil war breaks out when I turn 8 years old, and my father now being a politician, the things that protect me now become a risk. And I'm on one of the last flights to leave that country in 1990 before an 18-year civil war that claimed millions of lives of children my age child soldiers and all of that. That's where that comes from. I, I avoid that by the skin of my teeth, right? So that's two things that, like, I survived the '80s, I survived the Civil War in the '90s. We moved to America and my parents start over. And I didn't appreciate this until I was an adult and a parent. My parents, at now a little younger than I am today, lost everything. They lost every dollar, they lost every piece of clothing, they lost their birth certificates, they lost their, their everything. They lost— like, they literally started over in a new country with a very limited network. Jesus. Refugees from a civil war. This is pre-internet, pre-cell phone. So like, we're getting news weeks behind from overseas calls using calling cards. Like, it was, it was a weird time. And we always felt like we— like, the war is just about to end and we're gonna go back home. So we never felt like we planted roots because it was like Oh, as soon as the war is over. Yeah, so we never really— home wasn't a thing for me. It was like, it was temporary, it was temporary. We're just here until— and until never happened. And then you end up turning 18 and you're like, oh shoot, like, I'm here now. Like, this is life. This is only 10 years away from when I left the country, but now I'm an adult here and I'm in this country. I don't really feel home here, but I'll figure it out. And then life and life and life and life and life and trials and tribulations and training for the Olympics and having this injury and feeling embarrassment and all this. And like, all of that happens, and then I meet Davina again. We met in middle school, of all places. We didn't date, we weren't really close friends. Our friends were friends with each other. I definitely had a huge crush on her. She's one of the most beautiful women in the world, and was even then was that to me. But like, there's no world that a Udu Gray gets with a Davina Thomas. That was like the 13, 14-year-old version of me is like, it is no world that happens. Fast forward, we're getting married, like, own a studio, we won Grammys. What world is this? Like, how do these dots connect? Like, and if you had to go through everything you've gone through in your life, the good, bad, the ugly, to get to this point where you're sitting across from this woman that you know loves you and you love her, and you guys are building this amazing thing and surrounded by these people that love you, and you're, you're so blessed and so full— if God can give you all of that and all you had to do was pay those little prices along the way, would you do it? Every time. Not even a question.

I wouldn't change a thing in my life.

That's the case. Then even today when things are difficult, and even today in real life, transparently, things are difficult today, I take it with a smile because it's like, what are you planning? What are you designing now, God? What's the next thing that you're building? What are you constructing that I don't see yet? I'm excited for it. I'm grateful for it. So I now find the gratitude in the moments of the call that I have with you this week of like Yo, Wendy Day, this is how I'm feeling, like, what do I do? And your response, like, battery in my back. Like, I'm blessed to have a Wendy Day in my life. I'm blessed to have a Meg. Blessed to have a Manny Wells. I'm blessed to have a Bill, Uncle Bill. Like, the people I can pick up the phone and say, and even if the answer is just like, I don't know, but I'm praying for you, I'm with you, if you need anything just call me back. Like, that's all I need today. And because I know it works out. Like, if there was a phrase, if I could wear a shirt that's like my life, it's like, yo, it all works out, it all connects. Like, there's nothing— I've never seen anything not work out. We've lost people we've loved, we've lost opportunities, we've, we've, we've had many lessons that you look back and be like, oh, I wish I could have, but it always works out.

Always. When you, when you don't get one thing, it's because there's something better coming. And I used to read those little phrases on Instagram, be like, that's some bullshit, but it's not. It's real. Like you might think you want this and you don't get it, but then something else comes along that's better and you're like, oh shit, I'm so glad I didn't do this because I wouldn't have the opportunity to do that.

That's it. That is it. That's every part of my life. I feel like God is designed— and I don't say that like I'm special. I feel like it is all connected. I was blessed to have an amazing conversation with my mother before she passed, and I was able to see her connect her dots, and she had never done that exercise. And when I saw how the dots connected with her, from the version of her that I knew to the version of her that was brilliant, like me times 10, like I wish I had what she had as far as just like her ability to like be brave and be bold and go and get it. And the version of her that was a little girl and what she dealt with then, and I saw the dots connect. And then at the end she said, but I got you. Like all of that that she went through, she's like, but at the end of it, I got you. It made sense. And now that I see who you've become as a man, I did my job. I, I was here for a reason. And I'm like, damn, like, we had a very interesting relationship. It's one that a lot of people don't really talk about. Like, when you're— when your parents go through some stuff and you as a kid and you hold resentment and your anger and all that. But like, for her to say that, it was like, oh, like, we all are here for a reason. Like, and now I look at my kids, right? Again, that's why I say it's not about me. Oh, I'm here for them. Like, I'm— if I do my job, then they the dots connect for them. So I'm just a piece in connecting dots. I'll be gone in a second, and then everybody— like, we'll all be—

no, we'll be— yeah.

So the spirituality, and Kevin definitely lives by that. He got an accident coming home from, um, Earn Your Leisure and, uh, Invest Fest. Leaving Invest Fest, he gets rear-ended and hits the car in front of him. He's okay, he didn't get hurt. Gets out, does the paperwork, gets on 75 North to get home there's a multi-car pileup.

He would have been in that. He would have been in that.

He put on his Instagram story, he's like, I was so mad at the accident I got in. Now I'm sitting here seeing fire trucks, ambulances, and knowing people have lost their lives. And if I didn't get in that accident, who's to say I'm not part of that?

I can't tell you how many times that has happened in my life. I don't even question it anymore.

So that, yeah, that is, that is our, you know, we, we run this company knowing that And it's, it's, it's a beautiful thing. I know you'll be at Jump Global Summit. Like, I feel like that Jump Global Summit did something to me too, where being around a bunch of people who were willing to even think of things like that in a safe space in our industry gave me a lot of hope. It opened me up even more to where I could talk about it with you on this, because I was like, oh, there's more people who are willing to even look at life in a way that's like, oh, it all connects and we're all here. To serve each other.

Yes.

Even in our worst moment, it's setting up a great moment. And if that's life, if that's how God's designed things, then who am I to ever be upset? I can be upset in a moment, I can be disappointed in a moment, but my default has to be it's just an emotion, it's feeling.

Yep.

Whatever it is, I'm happy for it because I get to talk to Wendy this week and I get to talk— like, we, we lost a colleague, we lost somebody in our industry this week before we got on this talking about it, right? Like, somebody in their 50s, so young, like, so much more to do.

He was 50. Yeah, too young and brilliant. And he was, he was actually, he was actually one of the people on my list in, in, in wanting to help you. He was the second person on my list. And that's how I found out, because I was reaching out to make a connection to get help. I know you knew him. But I was reaching out from a different angle, and that's how I discovered that he had passed.

Life. So yeah, just like only from a place of gratitude. And then Davina got us meditating when we first started 24/7, and we were trying to figure out how to raise capital and how to build a tech platform and how to build a team and how to navigate this new world. And, and we were just— we found ourselves so stuck. Like, 2020 January 1st, 2022, and Davina started meditating first. And what she would do is she would meditate in the room while I was working, because at the time we had moved the office into the bedroom in the pandemic. We lived with her parents, with my in-laws, so it was 3 generations in one house in the pandemic. It was a— it could have been a reality show. Um, so our office was in our bedroom, and she would say, do you mind if I meditate? And I'm like, of course not. And then she put her headphones on, and she would dim the lights on her side of the room, and I would just be typing and working. And she knows me well enough to know that after like 5 or 6 times, I was like, I could meditate better than her.

Yeah, exactly.

Whatever she's doing, I could do that. And then I was like— she was like— and every time she would ask and I would be like, nah. And then one time she was like, you want to do it with me? And I was like, I'll try. And we put on the Mindvalley app and we did the Bob Proctor meditation. And I can't— like, the first time it was like a rush. Like, I just felt this emotion of like, you do— like, it all connects. You're good. Like, what are you doing here? Like, don't stress. The stress is what's keeping it from coming.

Stop. Yes.

And we started meditating and things opened up for us. I would say not even a month later, it was like if we were going this way, we started meditating, we started going that way, and it was just like, oh, okay.

Like, it just brings clarity. And, and if you had— if we had— well, first of all, we wouldn't have had this discussion 3 years ago. I would have been like, oh, this is weird. I, I saw this stuff as like woo-woo, you know, like, too woo-woo for me. And then I got very stressed out and I got stuck. And I'm like, okay, I need to— I'm not somebody who gets stuck. And I felt like I was in cement trying to walk forward and I just couldn't. And I've had a really amazing career. I think you're aware, like, I've done amazing shit. And I wasn't able to do anything. And I want, I want my mojo back. I was willing to try anything to get it back. So I'm like, all right. Everybody around me is telling me, try meditation. Let me just, let me just humor them and try it and popped on Jay Shetty. And that was it. And once I realized that it worked and not only did it calm me down, but it brought clarity and it brought a ton of ideas. I'm like, oh my God, this is like, how do other people not know about this? And it's free. What? It's just crazy, but it's, it's It's changed my life. A lot of shit has changed my life. And I've tried shit that, that hasn't worked. Like, at this point, you know, I'm trying sound baths and energy healings, and, you know, let's, let's try all the woo-woo shit, what works and what doesn't. And I keep what works and I let go of what doesn't. Not that it doesn't work for others, it just doesn't work for me yet. Yeah, it's not there yet.

Yet. Yep, that's the answer.

Are there, are there any, um, books or practices or TED Talks or videos, or you mentioned Mindvalley. I'm a member of Mindvalley as well. I'm a lifelong learner. I'm part of Augment. I'm part of a lot of different educational platforms that help me. Is there anything that you guys do, or you especially? I don't want you to talk for, for, for Davina, but is there anything that you do, you do that helps you to grow or become stronger or a better human being?

Yeah. Yep. So there's two things I do. You'll love the first one because you already know I, I'm a big believer in a vision board. Uh, it's about vision board season for me now, so I'll spend the next couple of months getting my vision board for '26 together. Uh, what is that?

What is a vision board?

So It is literally a, a visual representation of that lottery life that my Uncle Bill talked about. For me, it is, I won the lottery, which now represents to me now, like today, it's not even if it's you won the lottery, what do you do? And it, it went from being a lot of, uh, superficial and things that I thought I wanted, like I wanted the Grammy, right? I wanted the I wanted the gear and I wanted the accolades and I wanted the all of those things, right? We wanted a Billboard chart and we wanted this and wanted that and we got all of those things, everything on that, and it never fills your cup. The day after the Grammys, I went home and I had to mop the studio floor and I just remember like laughing to myself thinking, what did you think? Like, yeah, this would be the game. Do you thought it would like people would be at the studio ready to party?

Like, Yes, like, it's gonna change everything, and you're still cleaning the toilets, and it's like, I have a Grammy.

That Monday night, I'm at the studio by myself, mopping the floors, getting ready for the next day, which is where I was when I was at Avalon a decade before that, and I'm laughing to myself thinking like, what did you think, like, the Grammy was gonna, like, folks would be lined up at the studio waiting to like give you a crown or something? Like, no, like, it's great, it's, you want it, but like, no. So it went from that to more like, you know, for me, my vision board now is like movie nights every Friday we can, right? There's 52 weeks in a year. If we can do 40 movie nights with our kids, that's amazing, because right now they're 10 and 9. Realistically, we have 4 years before we're no longer cool enough to do movie nights every week with them. We'll probably drop down to 10 a year then. And then like our daughter, the 5-year-old who moved up, she's now in New York, she's 21 now. We lucky we get 2 movie nights a year with her because she lives in New York and we live in Atlanta. So like that, seeing that now, I'm like, oh, like if we could do 40 movie nights in 2026, that would be a great year. If we get 20, I'd be happy, right? Like, and now it's like, if I could go on 30 dates with Davina in 2026, that would be a great year, right? Like, do you need billions of dollars to do those things?

No.

Do you need to win the lottery to do those things? No.

But like, you can just take a walk.

That's amazing, right? If we want to host a dinner with our partners in the industry, not to show that we can or not to, to fluff, but like, because how often do you get to celebrate the people that you care about and you're on this journey with? So 2026 for me is like, yo, we gonna find a restaurant, we gonna invite Mag and Meg and Leticia and Wendy and all these people and invite 10, 15 people. And if one person shows up, we gonna have a great dinner. And if 10 people show up, we'll have a great dinner. And we want to start doing that now annually because that's really important to us. We want to invite all our friends and family to our— on our anniversary week to renew our vows because we— all those people who were there when we got married and are still in our lives, and some of them we've lost, like, we don't know how much time we have with people. So our— my vision board's much more along those lines. And then on the artist front, it's like I want to help somebody quit their job every quarter of next year, just one person. Like, we have thousands of people on our platform, but if I— I want to have— I've had that convo enough times to know that that fills my battery. Like, I want someone to be like, hey, you do— I made enough, we hit the goal, quit my job. That's success for me. So if I can do that once a quarter, that's 4 times next year. That's my vision board, has that. So it really is, to me, it's like it's the answer to that question. It follows me every year and it will till I die. Like, what would you do if you won the lottery 6 months after you won? That's the life I want to live. And you work towards it daily. It's got to be— it's the chase of the thing. That's the value. That's what the Grammy was. It was the chase of the Grammy that was exciting. Once we got it, the chase was gone. And I was like, oh well, now I guess I can put Grammy winning next to my name. But like, I don't— and I was like, well, maybe I can win one and I'm— it's not Kendrick's, it's my Grammy. It's like, but it's just another chase. And I have more fun helping other people create than I do creating my own music. So I'm not gonna try to get my own— like, I don't want to be the artist. Like, that's not— that doesn't fill my cup. Like, so it's more so the chase of the thing, of the idea of putting together the dinner with our partners and our friends and our families, the idea of booking a restaurant and sending out the invites. And like, every step of that, you get a little bit more gratitude. It's another dot that connects on that journey of like, oh, we did it. The idea of movie night, all right, we gonna get the popcorn, we gonna get the popcorn seasonings, we gonna pick the movie, we gonna— all right, cool, we gonna watch this movie this week. Okay, what's releasing next week? The idea of getting the kids excited on Tuesday for Friday night movie night while we still can, because in 4 or 5 years when they're driving and they got friends and parents aren't cool to hang with, they're not gonna want movie night, but they'll always remember it. So that's, that's the vision board for me, is like, one thing I would say is for me, and I— it's my like kind of what you say, meditating up— you wish you could tell everybody. I wish I could show everybody the power of a vision board, which is like, I've never had a vision board not come true. And that's a powerful statement to say, but I've— everything I've wanted, including the marriage that I have, the, the wife and kids that I have, the business partners that I have— Wendy, I'm on with you right now. Do you know how many podcasts I've watched and listened to of you? And like, I, I like— this is But that's no different than like I married Davina Thomas. That's crazy to me. I'm like, Wendy Day is my friend, not just someone that I met, not someone that I was able to go up to and say like, yo, Wendy, like, yo, how you move and how you— that's inspired me. This is someone I can pick up the phone and call any—

yes, absolutely. And I would crush somebody for you.

That's my life. Like, but that is a vision board life. That is exactly what I've prayed for and worked towards. So That is, that is that.

And then you said there was a second thing and I cut you off and I didn't mean to, but I wanted you to explain the vision board because not everybody understands the why behind it or the how. So now they do. And thank you.

Nah, thank you. And then the second thing is there are 3 books that changed my life at 3 different stages of my career. The first book was Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki, a coworker of mine when I was working the night shift. And I was daydreaming of a better life, was like, you should probably read this book. And when I read that book, it opened my mind to the idea of working for myself. I didn't even know what the word entrepreneur was at the time. And I was like, oh, I could work for myself. So that gave me the, the seed, and it gave me the ability to go to all of those studios and say, I want to work, I want to be a part of this, what is it? And I treated every one of them as if they were my own until they were my own. The second book that I read, uh, was Von Mason's, um, was it the Music Business Bible? I don't want to get it wrong, but I want to say this— Music Business Bible. Von Mason, uh, was a producer. He produced Roll Bounce in the 1970s. Uh, super producer, really smart, very, very upfront with how he communicates. Um, I met him. He had a production company where he rented out lights and production gear for like videos and conferences. And whenever people would shoot videos in our studio, I would see this guy come in with this truck, load the gear, stand up. When it's done, he'd pull the stuff out. And one day I walked up to him, was like, hey, I'm Yudu, I'm the owner. And he was like, I know, I've been watching you. I've been waiting for you to come introduce yourself. And, uh, I'll never forget He was like, yeah, so like, tell me why you're doing this. And I was like, man, like, you know, we're a studio, but really what we do is we teach the artists and their teams how to be successful. And he just smiled and he was like, that's the motherfucker I've been waiting for. Let me tell you how this shit really works. And we talked for like 2 hours that day. And then he handed me his book and he signed it and he said, keep, keep educating these motherfuckers. Um, and that book, when I read it, was the simplest answer to how the business works that I'd ever seen. Um, and he ended up coming back every year up until we sold our company. He would come back once a year and teach a free workshop in our studio. We would get artists to come out, we get, you know, someone to sponsor, get food and drinks. And he had a great way of teaching because he was so direct and blunt about it. Um, but he taught publishing and, and how he, he basically had this hit in the 1970s from copying popular music because he was like, I figured out the code. Like, if this is what they're listening to on the radio and everybody's going roller skating, I'm gonna make a song that sounds like what's on the radio that incorporates roller skating. And he created the song, uh, Skate Row Bounce. Like, he produced that and made a lot of money with it. And then years later, Dr. Dre sampled it for The Game and 50 Cent, This Is How We Do, and he got 6-figure publishing checks every quarter in the thousands after that. And he literally would show us the publishing checks and be like, here's my statement from BMI so y'all see I'm not lying. I made this song in the 1970s, it bought me all this equipment that I now rent out and make a living with. He's like, I don't have to do this. I do this to connect with people like y'all and be around creative people. But like, I could retire today. I don't need to do this. I own my masters, I own my publishing. Y'all need to do the same thing. So his book Uh, Von Mason, he passed away in the pandemic. His wife was one of our interns, beautiful family. Um, his book was the second book that changed my life because a lot of how I teach the business comes from the Von Mason way of teaching, very simple, very direct. Um, and then the third book is Richest Man in Babylon by George S. Clayson. Uh, I read that book right before we sold our company, maybe a year or two before we sold our company, and I read that book every year. That is the book that I use to remind myself that the goal to the rich life— not rich just in money, but the rich life and like the life that I want for me, my family, my friends, my loved ones, the abundant life— is to not tie myself to the dollars, but understand like that the money will make itself, the value will make itself. Stick to your principles and and do good by people, but let the money work for you. Like, let the— like, don't think you have to work. You don't have to do something a thousand times to be better. Come from the workaholic world like you. That's what shifted me, and even the ability to sell our company. And like, it's tatted on me. I never thought I would sell my old company because like, that was my baby. That was our thing. That book changed how I looked at business and at money and at what abundance looked like. So Richest Man in Babylon. I read that book every year still to this day.

I love that. My, my book that I read about every 9 months is by Jack Canfield, and it's called The Power of Focus. Because I tend to do too much at once. I tend to do like 50 different things. And that's the book that I read that brings me back to ground zero so that I can really get my focus together and accomplish more. And I think like you, I accomplish more than the average person does easily, you know, and still have time left over for, for balance. I do it for the past 2 years. I do something fun every day. I do something non-work-related that's fun, whether it's making art, whether it's taking myself out to lunch, whether it's traveling. But I, at least once a day, I do something just for me, and that's how I balance my, my extreme workaholism.

You know what, I might have to incorporate— I know, might— I will incorporate that because I love the intentionality behind you saying doing something fun for me. That's a good way of looking at it.

It's exactly what you spoke about with your kids for movie night. It gives me something to look forward to, which makes the dopamine pop, which I need. I'm ADHD. And after I do it, it gives me something to focus on so that when I'm stressed out, I can think about the piece of art that I made, or I can think about the walk that I took next to the Chattahoochee River, or I can think about the amazing $100 lunch that I just treated myself to.

Mm. See, I'm always— I'm always learning from you, Wendy Day.

I'm always learning from you, too. You know, I, I, I tell you this all the time, but I'm going to say it publicly. You and I spoke at Berkeley together, and it was awesome because I didn't know I was going to get to speak with you. You were there to speak on something else, and I was there to— I think you were there to do a listening session. And I was so thrilled that we got to like sit next to each other. It was the first time that I ever really heard you speak outside of just you and I together. And I was mad that I couldn't take notes, and I was mad that it wasn't being filmed because you gave so many jewels. But you shared something that made me do the complete full turnaround and look at you, you know. Oh, I looked the wrong way. You're on this side of me. I did the complete full turnaround and look at you. You talked about in building a company, you need the dreamer, you need the project manager, And you need the person that's going to do the work. And I realized that my company was set up for failure because I didn't have those. Everybody in my company was a dreamer. So there was nobody to project manage, which we have now. You met Maya. And there was nobody to like do the work, which I now have 5 people to do the work. So not only did it benefit me because it changed how I look at business, But I came home from Berkeley and I spent that weekend writing a book that's called The You Do Theory from that, because I just want to share that with the world. I want everybody to know that this is how you do it. Like, those moments where somebody can just say something, just— and you said like so matter-of-factly, and I'm like, oh my God, not only is this accurate, but it was you, me, and Chris Wares, and we're all three of us dreamers. And I looked at him, I looked at you, I'm like, with our years of experience and with our knowledge of how this works and with the fact that all three of us could raise millions of dollars, if we started— the three of us started a company together, it would fail immediately because there's nobody to do the work and there's nobody to project manage. We're all dreamers. And it became so crystal clear to me.

I remember that day because you turned and looked and I felt like I said something so wrong. No!

Oh my God, it was so—

And you like leaned in too and I was like, oh no, what did I say?

I think I took your picture. I took your picture twice that day. Once was when I filmed you when you were talking about how valuable Divina was to you because I didn't know if you had ever like said that to her and I'm like, I'm sending this to her right now. I sent it to you to give to her. And then the second time was right after you said that. I took a picture because it was a moment that changed my life. So it's now in my phone. I have a section in my phone of life-changing moments. And when I get really down or frustrated, I go through and I look at life-changing moments. And there's like hundreds of pictures in there now. So it's like, I got this.

I'm so excited for that book. When you hit me in it and you were like, yo, do you mind if— and I was like, mind if— yo, you're Wendy Day. What an honor that I— if I had a word, if you just put my name in your book once, I'm a winner.

It's the fucking title.

You do that. I was like, yo, like, the You Do Theory. That's it. That's— but that's at the essence of what— why we built 24/7 Artists is that it's all the things that I've learned along the years, life and business. How do I pass it on to the next version of me, the next person who's chasing their dream and following their dream can learn from somebody else's mistakes, lessons, and successes. And it's not that there's one way to do things. So no, one of the first things we did was we brought other people on to teach their ways of doing things.

There's—

exactly, there's multiple ways you can market, there's multiple ways you can build a team, there's multiple—

nobody, nobody does what I do and my clients are successful.

Yep. So it was, how do I house that? And then what are the tools? Because the technology was really important to me because we recognize that artists didn't want to do the work. We like— I could teach you about publishing all day long, but to sit and have to register your music becomes a pain. So how do I make that a little easier for you, right? If, if I tell you like, yo, when you say own your masters, you probably want to have copies of all of your Pro Tools sessions, your instrumentals, acapellas, your stems. You want to have all your lyrics, you want to have all that live somewhere because that's really what your masters are. That's the actual physical thing. And if you aren't getting that, you don't have masters to give. Like, you would be scrambling if someone came along today, beat bread, and said, we want to partner with you and give you $1 million because your catalog is great. You don't even know where to go to get what or who— how to do what with what. So that was the idea for me, was like, we're going to teach them, we're going to give them the tools. And then that last piece, community, is just like When people are together and they're learning together, I think they move.

They—

there's a competitive nature to it. And there's also a supportive nature to it.

Yes, there's supportiveness and there's accountability. Yeah.

So those— that, that, that's literally it. It's like the idea of that helping you and I learned that from others. So Mark Barnes in Washington, DC is a brilliant mind when it comes to business, a restaurateur and a nightclub owner. And I used to ride around with him for hours and he would just like spit game about like how he runs his business and how he manages his people and how he builds and how he maintains relationships. And I would just be like, I would just soak up like all this knowledge and like, and what I learned, like I gotta give him, 'cause he was the first one to say, you're a dreamer. Like you're needed because you're the reason it even exists. You guys don't have a studio, you don't have Grammys, you don't have any of that. If you don't see it. But the second you come down from that and try to run it every day, the business will die because nobody there is thinking about what it needs to become. So you gotta find that person. And I didn't understand it at first because he was like, the people around you aren't the right people, like you need better people. He would always say that, you need like, let me find some people for you. And I always took offense because I'm loyal. I was like, no, Mark, like these are my people. And then when it didn't work out with them in the long run, and he— I went back to him and he was like, I told you, right? But like I had to go through that. So you're loyal. That's a good thing. But now you're ready. Let's find the good people. Because once you get those other two pieces, you're good. And he called them what he called them, but I saw it in him. Like, he was like, Shawty, I'm stuck. He would always say, like, don't be me. I'm—

I say that all the time.

I'm stuck because I never got those other people in place, so I can't leave the business. I'm trying to get you so you can leave the business and be with your kids and be with your wife and be with your friends. And I call him every now and I would text him every now and then just to thank him. Cause it's like, yeah, I get it. Like if, if imagine if I hadn't adopted that and we just kept our studio the way it was, it would have failed. It would have failed, or I would have been stuck, which is another failure. None of what we're doing would have existed. And we would have just been like, all right, can we make $20,000 a month in a recording studio and pay ourselves a little bit and pay these engineers and keep up this equipment and be in this rat race and try to fit?

Like, no, no, you're not fulfilled. You're just, you're in the rat race. You said you're on a, you're on a treadmill. It doesn't— it just doesn't really make sense.

Oh, well, that, that, that's amazing.

So, um, you've been, you've been so incredibly generous with your time, but I have, I have two more questions. Um, one is, would you speak to Manny and Passion? I want to bring it back 360, and then I'm gonna ask you after that if there was anything that I didn't ask you that I should have.

Okay, so for the Manny and Passion, uh, today I had a convo with Manny and we were talking about the Hormozy thing, and I said, you know, I think part of the reason the Hormozy thing works is his brand is built on being simple, being someone who knows how to make money, and someone that's helping a bunch of people. And he was able to scale that through a product, a book, and sell it for $6,000 because it aligned with his brand, right? The idea of very simple, helps people with these free gems, and his goal is to help as many people as possible. So when he says, hey, if you help me by buying 200 copies, 300 copies of my book and donate them so we can help as many people as possible, the people who believe in him and his brand will move. And he made $100 million in a day. Yeah, just saw Russell just announced the $1,000 backyard experience for his birthday, and he's doing it through TBA, a ticketing platform. And he's— yesterday he had 10 people, today he's at 23 people. So he's made $23,000 selling a show in his mama's backyard. And I was telling Manny, like, the reason that works is LaRussell's brand is like he's an underdog that is going against the system, that is doing it his way. And so we'll support that. Even if I can't make it to the show, I would support that because I've seen what the system is. And for someone to stand up and go about it he— and he'll honestly say he doesn't have it all figured out. He's not all there, but like, he's doing it in such a great way, transparent way, and sharing the journey in real time that is inspiring an entire generation of artists and creators that 23 people gave him $1,000 in a day.

Yes.

And I said, you know, that, that's because, again, if you ask 100 people, like, Family Feud style, what, what do you think when you think LaRussell? You would think independence. You would think, you know, maybe like scrappy. You would think like go-getter. Like, those are the words. And then so I was saying, like, Manny, like, whatever we do to scale has to align with our brands. And me seeing that with both Hormozy and LaRussell, I, I now I'm trying to figure out, like, all right, what's my brand? Like, if I was to ask 100 people a question, like, what do you think about when you think of Udu? What's the word that comes to you? And Manny was like, I don't know, maybe passionate. And I was like, oh, that's interesting. Like, I, like, I wouldn't think— because I don't see myself. But then Davina came upstairs. And I was like, on the board, what would you say? And she said, first thing she said was brilliant. And then she was like, but I'd probably say passionate. I was like, hmm, like, that's two people and two of the closest people in my life. And then we start and I get on the call. And one of the first things to say to me is, when I first met you, your passion came through. I was like, three people.

Yeah. Maybe there's something here.

I don't need the rest of the Family Feud board because these are 3 people I trust fully.

Exactly.

Passion is one of my things, and, and, and I, I think about it. If the first person ever write me a check as an investor, when they invested, they said, I'm not writing this check because the idea is great. Anyone can have an idea. I'm writing this check because I believe in you, the person, and I believe your passion will figure it out. And I remember, like, I didn't know how to take that. Like, I wasn't offended, but I was like What do you mean the idea is not a good idea? Like, of course it's a good idea. But as we've maintained a relationship and I check in with him monthly, he'll always say, you do like 24/7 is going to change 100 times before it becomes what it will become.

Yes.

But your passion is what's going to make it succeed.

Agreed. And your open-mindedness is what's going to let it change. You're not going to try to hold it in a cage and be like, no, it has to be this way, because you're not an ego. You're not a person driven by their ego. You're driven by passion.

Yeah, so that, that's why when you said it, it was like I got goosebumps instantly because Manny said it, Davina said it, and then we start our call and at the beginning of the call you said, yes, passion. And I was like, all right God, talking about spirituality, I hear you.

Like, yep, what more do you need? You have to see the signs. Here's your sign, it's about to hit you in the head.

Yep.

So I read a book last year and I wish I could remember who wrote it, um, but he's a branding guru and it's, it's, I think it's called something like One Word, right? And he talked about how you should be able to apply your lane, your life and everything you do to one word. And I did the exercises in the book and I realized that my word is empowerment. I want to empower people.

That tracks.

And I feel like yours is passion. I absolutely agree with that. I think that, I think that you're absolutely going to do everything that you want to. I know that, um, shout out to Ethan, who is Alex Hormozi's, uh, funnel guy. I mean, he's got multiple funnel guys, but I think that Ethan can help you like get to your next level. Without being as salesy as Alex Hormozy. But I also feel like your passion is going to help you navigate the seas when they get rough. Yeah. Because nothing in life is easy. Everything is a struggle. And without passion, none of us, not you, not me, not Davina, not Casey, none of us can get back up when we get knocked down. Yeah. And, and that's, that's the key. You know, I see it like a toy that I had when a kid— when I was a kid was a blow-up clown. And it had a weight in the bottom. And I would punch it, it would go down and spring back up. And I'd punch it and it would go down and spring back up. Well, that's what life is like. That to me is the perfect metaphor for life. We just have to spring back up. Every time, every time we have to spring back up. Exactly. Is there anything that I didn't ask you that I should have?

Uh, maybe— it's funny, I was trying to think of it. I'd say maybe where do I see Us in 24/7 in 5, 10 years?

Oh, I'd love to hear that because then I can play it back for you in 5 years.

Let's do it. So, and that's why I was hesitant to say it, but you are my safe space. I was like, yeah, why not?

Yeah, come on, because it's going to be that or better. It's not going to be worse. It's going to be that or something superior to whatever your vision is.

So I, I see 24/7 Artists becoming a, as a lifestyle, or like a, like a tag that someone owns and wears, right? I see it being more than just being a company.

Oh, it's a culture.

A culture. I see it being where someone says I'm an independent artist, or someone says I'm a whatever artist. The idea of someone saying I am an artist 24/7, I'm a 24/7 artist, will be the standard for the separation between the hobbyists and the people who really do this. Because I think especially with the rise of AI, there's going to be a massive wave of hobbyists in our industry for the first time. There's always been people who buy a guitar from Guitar Center and play at home and have no aspirations of making it in the industry and may never do a show. It's always been someone who plays piano.

It brings joy.

Brings joy. There's always been someone who bought a drum set because they play the drum, but they don't— they're not gigging. That's not their life. That's always existed. But with AI, the scale at which people will create in every industry is going to explode. And you will need something to separate the same way you say a pro baller versus somebody who plays rec ball versus somebody who plays LA Fitness at lunchtime. I think in our industry there will be a separation, and somewhere in that chart there will be people— there will be a 24/7 artist. It will be more than a company, it will be a collection of people who say, I do this for real, this is my thing, this is what I do, is what I eat, sleep, and breathe. And I think at that point, with all that we've built and all that we do, hopefully I find a successor. Or if Casey wants to do it, we will always talk about it, and I step away and just become like a board member, a chairman of the board, and help them with their decision-making. My kids by that point are now getting out of the house, so Davina and I are going to be in a new chapter. Um, I think personally we will focus our attention then on helping as many people, not framed by just music, but framed by just the idea of that vision board life. And I think that's like the next— like, everything we're doing now, we're fully in it, we enjoy it, and we will help millions of people, and we will help— we'll be a part of transforming this industry and, and adjusting with it. And when it gets to that place and we've checked that box and a bunch of people are doing this and it's working and running. What we learn in that chapter will make us even better prepared now to say— and even if music isn't your passion, how can I find that next 18, 19-year-old version of me and say, what do you want to do in 6 months if you win a lottery? Like, how do I build that out? And the diaspora is, you know, I'm a refugee. There's a part of me that will always be reminded that at 8 years old I left and millions others didn't. And I've been blessed and have opportunities and been given more than I could ever have prayed for. And I know I have to go back with those blessings and now pour into the people who didn't have that opportunity. So we will do what I'm saying, but we will do it back home in Liberia and West Africa. And I just think there's so much potential there. But because by then we would have all these cool music friends and people in the industry and we'll be able to like bring celebrities. And like, you know, I've learned now the game of like me showing up by myself is cool, me showing up with 5 people that have millions of followers and everybody's excited. So I think by the time we go to do the next thing, you know, you talk about Jay Shetty and those people, like I see them and how I'm like, oh, like it makes sense. Like when you look at who's doing a Jay Shetty event, why would you not pull up? He has Oprah speaking, like you're gonna go, right? It doesn't diminish what he does. What he does is so powerful But he knows if I want to reach billions of people, I have to have Oprah Winfrey on the stage with me. And that's— I think 10 years from now, we will build up our own versions of Oprahs and Jay-Zs and all of that in our industry at that new level. And then we will become— we'll be able to, to do more good with that. But I, I think millions of people are gonna— just like this, like there are people walking around with house— I think millions of people are going to be— I am a 24/7 artist. It's going to be a a phrase that people won't even connect to me at one point. And that's how I know it succeeded, because they won't think 24/7 artists and you do, no more than if you think— nobody thinks— very few people think Nike and think Phil Knight. That's, that's success to me. It's like, it's now so— it's a movement. Like, yo, I only wear Nike means like, it don't matter who made it, doesn't matter who thought of it, doesn't matter who designed it or who saved it. I'm a Nike, you know, I'm an iPhone, I only use Apple products, right? Like Steve Jobs' name, as each generation comes up, means less and less to the generation, but the products mean more and more. There's kids now who will only buy Apple products and couldn't tell you who Steve Jobs is. So that's, that's what success looks like, is when we build this to the point where you think— you don't even think of you doing 24/7 artists. You're like, oh, 24/7, you're a 24/7 artist? Oh man, what do you do? Oh, perform? You tour? Oh, how do I connect with you? That's That's when I'll be like, all right, Wendy, I'm backing away now.

I love that. That's where your job is done. I love that. I'm gonna start saying that now because I needed a word that meant that. Um, I usually use the word artistpreneur, but I think, I think that's not as clear as 24/7 artist. And, and it looks weird when you write artistpreneur.

I always— I'm trying to add where the P goes, where's Exactly.

And you put dash— is there artist-preneur? Is it all one word now? It's artist pre-what? It's— yeah, and, and a lot of people don't understand what preneur means, so it's— I'm gonna start using 24/7 Artist.

Yeah, that's it. Uh, Wendy, this is, this is a, a vision board moment. I can check this one off.

I love it. Thank you so much for doing this. You've been so generous with your time. I just love you so much, and I'm so thankful that I consider you a friend. I'm so, so thankful.

Wendy Day, that goes both ways. I, I love that you will randomly text me, love you, hope you're doing well. Like, that means the world because this is a, this is a, it's a, it's a tough industry. It is tough to run your own business. It is tough. You, you always almost feel like you always have to show strength in what we do and, and show like a position of strength. And so to have people in your life that you can be vulnerable with and be fully transparent and say like, look, like, I'm terrified— like you said it earlier on this— and that, that, yeah, the battery in my back for you to say like, yo, I'm scared every day, every day. Oh, well then I'm not crazy.

You're getting out of bed.

No, like, I make decisions. I'm like, yo, this doesn't work.

Like, I'm scared that I'm reading the wrong books. I'm scared that I'm working with the wrong clients. I'm constantly, constantly nervous and uncomfortable. My anxiety is through the roof, but I get up and do it anyway. I feel the fear and I move forward anyway. I've learned to be comfortable being uncomfortable. It's my superpower.

No, it's— and you've done it masterfully. So thank you. You keep doing it because I will, because I got bigger shit coming.

Wait till you see what's coming.

I'm so excited.

I'm so—

I already know. I already know. I already know.

Awesome. Thank you so much. I love you.