Ep 37: How a UPS Driver Became a Full Time Real Estate Investor with CJ Calio

Covid actually solidified what we did 3,000 miles away because I was utilizing Zoom. I was FaceTiming people. I was leveraging the messenger app on Facebook where I could video call somebody and get some facetime with them, even though I wasn't physically there. They got to see a real person. They got to see that the energy and the body language and the words I was saying was authentic.

Welcome to the Healthy Investor Podcast with Bob Mastroianni, where you and I will learn from successful real estate investors, entrepreneurs and other highly driven individuals about their journey and the healthy habits and routines that play an integral part of their growth. Welcome back to the Healthy Investor Podcast. I am your host, Bob Mastroianni and today I have with me C.J. calio. C.J. is the co founder of WNN Properties LLC and a full time investor in residential and commercial real estate. CJ has raised millions of dollars to build a substantial residential and commercial portfolio since 2015, and now he's helping others do the same. In less than five years, CJ and his wife were able to live their dream of being full time investors while spending more time with their wonderful children. Sounds like a great story. I can't wait to dive into it. Cj, thanks so much for being on today.

Yeah, thanks Bob. Thanks for having me on your show.

Okay, great. So maybe you can just start off a little bit and tell us about. So you, you know, you, you got the itch to move into real estate investing and then turn that into your full time career. Tell me how that's gone for you so far. Maybe you could tell a little bit about your story and, and how you've gotten to where you are today.

Yeah, I appreciate it. I think my story is unique and I like to tell it from this point. So, so 2015, right? Prior to real estate, my profession was, I was a UPS driver and born and raised in Hawaii and from a working class family. This is like something you strive for, right? And for me, having this job was, was so good. You got good pay, good benefits, good retirement, very stable work. I mean, it was never a shortage of work. Being at ups, sometimes I thought we had a little too much work and it allowed for a very comfortable lifestyle. And that's where I was, I was satisfied with where I was at until a pain point. And this pain point came when we had this favorite time of year for us UPS drivers where we don our, our brown suits and we go in and act as cloths for everybody who orders Amazon and all those gifts and, and so forth. Well, this particular Christmas season was extremely unique. It was so different. And what I mean by that is I found myself not spending time at all with my family. This was the Christmas season that defined my pivot into real estate. And for three to four months during this Christmas season, before and after, I didn't see my family. I came home when they were sleeping, I left when they were gone. And it was a pattern that followed through for a good extended period of time beyond the normal. And it just drove me to this point of depression, anger, frustration, questioning. Can I put up with this for the next 40 years? Is this something I'm willing to tolerate? You know, holidays are designed for, for us to, to enjoy and be with loved ones and missing all that. You know, I didn't see my wife, I wasn't seeing my kids, and I was just, I was just upset since satisfied. And the money wasn't worth it in my eyes, that exchange of time. And so I pushed through, I went, I made it through. And, and I, I presented this opportunity to my wife. I was like, you know what? I, I quit. She's like, absolutely. This, this Christmas was horrible. I'll support you. Now, let me ask you this one question. How are you going to replace your income? Oh. Cause I didn't think that far ahead. You know, I'm just trying to get out of the job, maybe, you know, I'll figure something out. And no, she, she really hit me hard with a very valid question. How do I replace my income? So initially I was like, okay, well, I have some ideas. And she's like, well, you know, I've been researching while you were away, while you were working and not spending time with us, I, I started proactively looking into options for us. And one of the options she found based off of successful wealthy people, was seeing that they all had some level of real estate in their portfolio. They all carried something in real estate. And she, she caught on to this and she's like, how about we look into this? And me being male figure, the, the leader, the provider, the protector, put up a wall of pride. It's like, I don't know real estate. I don't have trade background. Why would I do this? In the fear of, of feeling inadequate and not smart enough to be in this space, put up this wall where I was like, you know what? You go do real estate, I'm going to go do something else. And I initially went and did a bunch of startups, startups in, in arenas that I was comfortable with, things that I knew that may have done, maybe I've done on the side as a hobby in the past. And like most startups, they didn't work. And I found myself later on in that year just as tired, just as frustrated, just as depressed and frankly, out of money. I put so much time and money into these startups and they didn't work out. So tail between my legs came back to my wife who was chugging along in her real estate and interest and research and getting more and more excited. I was like, you know what, support you. So I started going with her to these networking events, you know, the local REI real estate investor networking. So we would go to all these events and I was that husband in the back, crossed arm, full on defensive, like, don't talk to me, go talk to the boss lady, she's over there networking. I'm just here for moral support. And the thing that transformed me was these events started to hear and listen to other people who were doing the things that she was sharing with me. And you know, a lot of, a lot of bad things of real estate are out there based off of what people have heard, not necessarily experience. And I bought into a lot of that fear originally. So hearing these local investors that are successful, that are doing these things, find the language. And with the language came confidence. With confidence came the desire to want to be more a part of this and be running alongside my biggest supporter, my wife. And, and, and shift happened as I continue to go to these events where I became the loud one, the one that's like, hey, let's look, let's talk real estate. Let's, let's get into the good stuff. And it got to a point where we're like, all right, let's pick a strategy, all right? Buy and hold for cash flow. So we went, pulled a trigger on our first turnkey property bill in the novice mindset. Still in the, I wonder if this is going to actually work. Did I buy a real property? Are these real renters? Is it really going to make money? And the emotional roller coaster that comes with your first deal, and we sat on it for about six months just to make sure this was a real thing. And the funny thing is all that fear was not, not, not even close to what our experience was. We were so satisfied with what we got, we went off and we started to grow more. And in a matter of five years, we achieved that financial independence for both, not just me, but also my wife. And like you mentioned, people took notice of the success. People started to follow us along our journey and start to ask Questions like, how did you do that? I want to do what you're doing to have what you have. Could you teach me? And inadvertently I fell back into business where I talk to the privilege and the joy of mentoring people. And we've been just continuing to grow our portfolio while bringing others alongside of us and all running in the same direction. And that's my story.

Wow, I love that story. I love that story. I love that you started out as a UPS driver, you know, working hard. You know, I love that your wife was the one, the original initial one, who came out and said, hey, let's, let's give this thing a try. And you know, you're open and honest about the fact that you put up the brick wall. You know, you said something in, when you were speaking about your UPS lifestyle or your, you talked about a comfortable lifestyle. I wrote that term down as soon as you said it because, you know, I think the more we grow and the more we learn, the more we realize that comfort actually isn't such a great solution. Right. It's almost like, you know, I go through these times from time to time and kind of in one a little bit now where I realize that the things that make me feel comfortable are usually an indication to me that I probably should be doing something else. Right. Because, you know, at one point in my life it was like, all I want is to be comfortable. All I want is enough money to be comfortable. And then the real, the real result of that is no, I don't want to be comfortable. The more I make myself uncomfortable, the more I find ways to go outside of my comfort zone and to learn new things. That's really where the growth happens, right?

Yeah. So true. It's just being able to push yourself beyond that and that's where most people end up staying and settling. And it just brings me back to that quote, you get what you tolerate most. Tolerating my choices around profession and what I was given and I was given very generously, the benefits, the pay, the retirement, it really detracted me from what I really wanted in life was to be free from the trading time for money commitment.

Yeah. So when you started investing in real estate where you were still living in Hawaii, are you still living in Hawaii today?

Yeah, that's a great question. We just recently relocated to Reno, Nevada and it's, it's been a beautiful season, a beautiful transition. And we started there, we started from Hawaii, investing 3,000 miles away in the Midwest in these cash flowing markets. And it was, it was pretty interesting growth opportunity. To develop all those teams and relationships and, and understand the market and opportunity with such a vast space between us.

So how do you overcome, you know, you're just starting out and you're investing in your first properties. You know, so many people who I've spoken to say like, oh, invest in your backyard, because, you know, it's. And sometimes that's not always the best solution. You know, I, I live in an area right now that isn't necessarily landlord friendly, you know, and there are certain things that many investors would say, well, right now that's not an area that I want to invest in. How do you overcome that? Okay, I found that location, I found an area that I want to invest in, but I don't live there. Talk about, you know, finding properties, finding the opportunities and, you know, what it takes to, to get those opportunities to become successful from a distance.

Yeah, to me it's, it's similar to those who do invest in their backyard. You start with networking. Right? We're in the business of, of relationships and people. The vehicle is just real estate. So you change out the type of vehicle that we're using, we still can get from point A to point B. And like when I was going to the local meetups in Hawaii and meeting all these investors and getting insight, I would get referrals to areas that did make sense. Me. And some of them is not even referrals based off of personal experience, but just because they heard about it, which gave me a direction, a target, something to look at to go and dive in, to do deep due diligence and research around. Does this fit what I'm looking to do? And for us, when we found a few markets, we actually picked three. And from the three, we did a little bit more deep diving like you were mentioning. Is this landlord friendly or is this tenant friendly? Is this a cash flow? Is this appreciation state? What, what are we looking to achieve? And we built our, our strategy around the markets that support it. And after we identified the three, we went to go and build teams and they talk about the core for a lot on bigger pockets and having that agent, a property manager to GC and the lender on your team. That's all networking. And I, I never social media a lot. As much as I'm not a fan of using it personally, it was a great vehicle for me to connect with people 3,000 miles away. I'd find investor meetups in the market that I was looking to invest in and put myself out there. Hey, I'm an investor going to do this type of strategy. I'd love to connect with a few agents. I'd love to connect with a few property managers, GCs, lenders, insurance providers. And you just go down the list of your team members. You. You feel you need to be successful. And I'd get on calls and before this is pre covered. So Covet actually solidified what we did 3,000 miles away because I was utilizing Zoom. I was FaceTiming people. I was leveraging the messenger app on Facebook where I could video call somebody and get some facetime with them, even though I wasn't physically there. They got to see a real person. They got to see that the energy and the body language and the words I was saying was authentic. And it really got me to the point where a few people were willing to give us a chance. Give me a chance. I'm a new investor in the market, and I was completely, brutally honest that I'm new. However, here's the thing I'm going to do. I will do deals as long as they follow within some general idea of this parameter. And once they understood that and they found deals that fit that parameter, my job was to close. Now, I wasn't always buying the greatest deal in the world. However, by doing the deal, I solidified the trust in the relationship that, yeah, C.J. does deals. I'm not just talking. And I think that's a big opportunity for growth for new investors, is we get, we get this idea of having to fake it till you make it. And I, I personally don't believe that. Be real with them. You're new. And when they fall, when the deal falls in the, the parameters you've said, you win it, do the deal, build that relationship bond, make that trust factor real, where they're like, man, this guy's legit. Because I'm sure they come across a lot of people that say they're going to do things and then never do anything right. And that was what I feel stood out between me and maybe other investors were doing the same thing is followed through. And then it was just a process of rinse and repeat, keep going, let's go. And you're evolving your team through the process because we're growing, we're learning each other. And there are things that I don't like about a deal that maybe I'm willing to tolerate initially. And as we get better, I'd like to see that fat trimmed. I want to see the deal get better and we get to work with one another into honing into this beautiful synergy where now we're just this machine that's just churning out the deals.

That's a great answer. I love that. So how long into this process did it take for you personally to decide it was time and it made sense to leave your job at ups?

If you asked my wife that, she'd say a completely different time after, after I drank that Kool Aid, I got bit by that bug in real estate. I'd say about three year mark is where I was like we could do this. And for me, I knew where we were going. I had a projection, I had vision, had goals and I had measurables of based on results that I was in the right path of trajectory. My wife, she's a I need a proof of concept person. She needs to see it hold hard in the bank consistently flowing. So we, we teeter back and forth. I'll say about the three year mark, my wife will say about the five year mark and really once we got that peace of mind, that proof of concept she likes to say for or we were able to go, we were able to say thank you W2 for the good years, thank you for all the lessons learned and it's now time for us to start our new journey. A new season in life.

That's great. So I'm sure looking at where the world is today and the world economy today, I mean over the past couple of years I can only imagine that the profession of a UPS driver has become even more intense with COVID turned everyone into Amazon everything and then all of a sudden it turns to now you can get delivery seven days a week. They happen almost on the spot. I'm guessing that looking back on your decision, you probably don't have much regret.

Yeah, my only real regret is not sharing more about what opportunities lie outside of ups. To my fellow drivers and co workers. You know, I've been blessed to have a few of them walk alongside of me and, and go through this similar journey. And there's so much more out there for that type of profession and working class that just feel like this is it, this is what I get to do for my life. And I'm here to say and be living proof that it's not the only way. It's, it's a choice and we get to really choose which is best going to serve us in whatever season in life we're in.

And then for you, you know, you mentioned that you've had people come to you for advice and come to you for help and you're now starting to mentor other people, teach them what you've learned along the way. What does that look like for you? I mean, do you have a mentoring and education program or are you at a point now where you're just sort of helping people as they come along or.

Yeah, we've actually turned it into a full fledged business around mentoring and, and educating those who want to follow our unique specific style of investing, which is primarily around the cash flow, buy and hold strategy. We're, we're not flipping, we're not wholesaling and they, these are different types of the big overall real estate investing pie. We like to focus in on a specific strategy and we, we feel like we've designed it where you get guidance through somebody who's already trailblazed the path so you're not having to chop those weeds and re really compact the soil. It's, it's a lot cleaner of a path. You're still going to get your bumps and bruises and lessons learned along the way. And most of the avoidables will be worked through early on versus just trying to wing it off the back like I did. I got backhanded left and right by these metaphorical tree branches off of things that if I simply found a mentor that did what I wanted to do and had what I wanted to have, could have helped me avoid. Well, why go down that path when you take two steps to the right? This is the path I've already paid my dues on. Follow me, you know, and, and it's evolved into something beautiful and I really get this self fulfilling, very rewarding aspect to see people go from that mindset I once had. I don't know how I'm going to do this 3,000 miles away to doing it. And look at what I've created in that culture and that community is really what we strive for. So have like minded investors all rowing in the same direction.

Oh, that's great. That's great. So I want to transition over. This is the Healthy Investor podcast and we like to talk to our guests. I like to talk to my guests about, you know, any healthy habits or routines that contribute to your life and then also how they contribute to your business. Do you have any of those healthy habit routines?

And for me, one of the, one of our big habits that we, we've formed and implemented over the years was vision creation and goal setting in the beginning of the year. You know, it's nice to have these New Year's resolutions, yet most people don't see those through versus having that vision, that target, that why behind everything you're Doing today allows you to build a action plan or a roadmap to success by knowing what you want to achieve in said time. And we've been doing this for about 11 or 12 years now and it's been huge for me. I'm a visual guy, so I love to have like a vision type of board background. I use photos and, and the wallpaper on my computer changes with my kids and destinations and whatever I'm affirming in life. And I, I really like to affirm myself. What you what. Who am I as a right. Real estate investing and, and businesses is just a small sliver of who I am. Who am I as a whole? How do I want to show up today? And going through affirmations, reading, making that a priority throughout my, my week is, is very crucial where I spend at least 15 minutes a day reading a book of interest, whether it's personal development, spiritual or real estate related. I'm spending time being mentored by mentors who have these books out there that are in abundance and you can find those things anywhere and leverage them. I also like to take time to just breathe. Like meditation, really having that controlled breathing. One, one person once told me, when your emotions go up, your intelligence goes down. And I'm about you. But real estate is not always this easy peasy straight line. There's, there's peaks and valleys and sometimes I get to stop and just breathe. And those are some of the habits that's been helpful for me in business, in life and success and real estate in general.

Well, that's great. I like that you really touched on all of the mindset habits. Right. You know, so when I first started my morning habits, God, it's about seven years now, I started with the miracle morning. And the miracle morning touches on the physical and, and also the mental and emotional and you know, you let off with, with vision and visualization. Visualization was one of the tougher ones for me. Affirmations I did a really good job with and I actually started out with just finding someone else's affirmations and making some changes to them to, to suit myself. But creating a vision board, not always the easiest thing to do. And then to visualize where you see your business. You know, they say that all great things are created twice. The first time is in your mind and then the second time is, you know, the actual creation itself. So I guess just for me personally, I guess I'm asking what are some tips you could give to helping to create those visualizations of what you want, your, your business to look like what you want your future to look like.

So my advice would be, is what we do when we do our, our mini vision workshops for our group, we, we like to create this 10 year ideal lifestyle. Right. What does that look like for you? What have you accomplished? Come from a. It's been completed, I've arrived here and whatever that looks like. If I had the privilege of meeting Robert Kiyosaki for four hours one time and one of the things he said is you can't lie to yourself in the future, who can tell you what the future has in store. So go and create what that is for you at 10 years. 10 years is far enough out in my eyes where, okay, I got time to build it and it still can become real as you walk it back. So the visualizations for me is walking back from the 10 year ideal. What have I created in 10 years in all aspects of life? And what do I get to be at 5, at 3, at 1 monthly, daily, hourly. And it really brings it back into perspective that these are all achievable by doing these little things day over day, week over week, one more time and you, you, you can go and create like that financial freedom. Our original vision was 20 years. We did it in five because I walked it back and created an action plan and it was just in these daily habits. That's why I love what you have the healthy podcast around, Habits for success. That's really where everything matters. It's in the detail, it's in the little things. The big.

Yeah, no, it's, it's interesting and I appreciate that answer. That's, that's helpful for me and I took some notes there, so definite helpful. And I, I love the idea of creating that, that ten year ideal lifestyle. Yeah. And you know, one of the reasons that I've done this podcast and one of the reasons that I've sort of created this healthy investor movement, if you will, is really around that. You know, I learned through reading and through doing on my own that it really is the small habits. You know, I read a book a few years back called the Slight Edge. And the concept of the slight edge is repetitive motion every single day. Do a little bit, do a little bit. And then over the course of time, that little bit, that slight edge, you know, reading a little bit every day or exercising every day and consistently building upon those habits. When you look back after a few years, the growth is immense. And I see that in my personal life, I see that in my business, I see that in my family, I see um, so, you know, with your 10 year ideal lifestyle, I love the idea of creating that building backwards and then creating exactly what keys in motion you have to, you have to put in place in order to get there. So very cool.

Yeah, yeah. And it's what's so beautiful about that real quick. It's, it's. You can set yourself up for massive action in a short period of time or you can draw it out for the entire 10 years. It's where you want to be. And, and it's reflecting on the visualization for me, is the reflection on am I moving at the speed I want to? Am I just staying comfortable, or am I able to stretch myself just a little bit further, go a little bit harder, push ourselves a little bit longer, you know, to get to these things we want to achieve in 10 years, which is what we essentially did when we took our 20 and got it down to five. It's just little stretches daily, not us to it quicker than we ever thought we could do.

You for roles and responsibilities. You, you had mentioned that your, you and your wife would answer the other question differently, which sort of leads me down the road of are there different positions, are there different roles and responsibilities that you each take in the business?

Absolutely. We, we are firm believers in unique gifts and capabilities or, you know, our strengths. What is our superpower or whatever you want to call it. And we stay in our lane. So for me, I'm, I'm the acquisitions, I'm the negotiation, the network. I'm that front, front line person. I'm the face. She's the behind the scenes, the one that keeps every. She's the glue that holds everything together. She's the bookkeeper, she's the accounting, taxes and legal and all the things that essentially bore me, but it excites her and it invigorates, fire and drive for her to continue doing what she loves. And it's no different than me being on podcast with like minded investors like yourself, where it's just, it fills my tank and knowing that I'm in my gift is really what has really taken us to the next level was we, we, we honor and respect our roles, knowing we're different, we're completely different beings. We're like the yin and yang. We're opposite, but we work well together.

Well, that's great that you formed a team together like that. And then I'm sure you've built on your team similar concept. Right. Find other people whose strengths fit where the needs belong. Right?

Yes. Yes.

Very cool. So I want to Be respectful of your time. I appreciate you coming on. I want to move into the final segment where I ask the same questions of all of my guests. So for you, cj, what is your definition of success?

The freedom of not having to trade time for money.

Yeah. Yeah, that's very cool. And. And, you know, that's. It's. It's very clear how you've learned that difference, because you really were in a position where every hour that you were awake, every hour that you were at your job was a certain amount of dollars, and not being there equates to not receiving those dollars. And. And it really is a bit of a. Sort of a hamster wheel. Right?

Yeah. True. Very true.

So, second question. For someone who's new to investing or even learning to focus on their goals and their path to success, could you give a good book recommendation?

Yeah. So One Thing, Gary Keller. That was a big game changer for us, and it really helps you to focus in. On. On the. The most important thing. And. And that sets you up for these habits of success. One Thing, Gary Keller.

The One Thing is a great book. There's actually a really good podcast called the One Thing Podcast too, that I'm a subscriber to. If I reach over to the other side of my room here, I actually, I have very few things framed in my office, but I have a quote, and it says, what's the one thing I can do such that by doing it, everything else will be easier or unnecessary? And that is directly from the book. The One Thing. Such an incredible book. Yes.

That just gave me chills. Like, wow, that's awesome.

I love that recommendation. And that is one. When people come to me and say, how can I start out? How can I begin to focus? That's one of the first books that I like to recommend, so really good recommendation. Thank you. So, before we move into the final question, first of all, again, I want to thank you for coming on. This has been a lot of fun, and I'm glad we were able to meet. How can we support you? How can we people reach out to you and provide value?

Yeah. If you want to follow us on Instagram, we have our handle at WN Properties. And if anything of my story has drawn or tugged your heart, maybe you're in a similar situation where you feel stuck in your position and you're just not sure of options out there. Maybe you're curious on how we got to where we're at. We'd like to give you a free gift. And if you're able to Go to our website. Why not now in realestate.com we'd love to give you a free PDF that explains a little bit more in detail of what we did to become who we are today.

Oh, it's very generous of you. Thank you so much for offering that out there. I really appreciate it. So when we move into the final question, my final question for you cj if you can think back to me with me to a younger CJ around the ages of 10 to 12 years old, sort of knowing what you've learned so far on your journey, what are three pieces of advice that you would give to that young CJ or any preteen child to help guide them towards success?

Yeah, so my first one that came to mind was redefining failure. Failure has just got this really bad rap. And when I shifted from the thinking of failure as a negative thing to a failure is a forward moving positive growth thing, it changed everything about my experiences. So f redefining failure would be one tip. A second tip would be to to find mentors like to really get. Find a way to get in their space. And it's most of the time the easiest way to get into a mentor space is, is a financial contribution. But there's a million zillion infinite other ways to add value to get into these people's space and make sure that these people that you're. You're wanting to find mentorship from are doing what you want to do to have what you want to have. And if they, if those questions are answered yes, you found somebody you could run with then three, it's, it's always being in the space of growth. You, you cannot fail. You can only learn and grow is what I repeat to myself almost on a daily basis. And growth is, is something that I don't ever want to stop. So I look at a lot of what I do. I may have been come an expert and mastered a lot of the strategies I implement. However I'm looking to tweak that.00001% better. And I take that from the Michael Jordan Kobe Bryant book from their their trainer their personal trainer on these are elite athletes that are looking to improve at that level lack striving for excellence, not perfection. Excellent. So always in this mindset of CJ you can grow. There's always room for growth. You have not arrived. Come on, let's look for something we can improve on just a little bit better.

Excellent. Well this has been so much fun cj. Thank you so much for coming on. If you got value out of this. Make sure you reach out to CJ Calio, his company WNN Properties. They're on Instagram. Thanks so much for listening in and go out there and make it a great day.

Foreign.

Thanks so much for joining me on the Healthy Investor podcast. Check out the Show Notes for more information about connecting with our guests. If you enjoyed what you heard today, please head on over to itunes and leave a positive rating and review. It would mean the world to me. I'm grateful for your support and I wish you an abundance of success on Journey to Healthy Investments and a Healthy Life.