#44 Let's Talk Trauma Treatment

Welcome to the Working Moms of San Antonio podcast. We're your host, Erika Radis and Marie Lifschultz, a realtor and lender here in San Antonio. But most importantly, we're working moms just like you.

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Now on to today's episode. Grab a cup of coffee, settle in, and let's get started.

Welcome to this week's episode of the Working Moms of San Antonio podcast. We have our first ever in-person guest. With us today, Dr. Howard, and I'm going to turn it over to her and let her introduce herself a little bit further and talk about her work.

Hi, thank you so much. I am so excited to be here. I love what you guys do and offer to the community. So I am Dr. Casey Howard. I own a Nova Recovery Center. We are a trauma and PTSD treatment center. I think when most people hear PTSD, they think of veterans, and we do see a lot of veterans, but actually over half of PTSD cases come from people who have been abused as a child. So whether they're still a child and, you know, fall into that category with PTSD, or they're an adult and now they're just living with the consequences of that childhood abuse. So we primarily treat individuals who have been physically, sexually, emotionally abused.

And how long have you been doing that, Dr. Howard?

8 years.

8 years.

So yeah.

Yeah.

Wow.

Well, I mean, that's obviously very, very important work and I can only imagine, you know, kind of hard to, hard to work in that industry because you probably see and hear a lot of different, different things, but it affects, it sounds like, so many in the community.

Definitely. And what, what drew you to that work? Anything in particular?

Yeah, so I actually, I used to specialize and work in eating disorders, and when I left the eating disorder center that I worked at, which I loved, but left and went into private practice, we had always told everyone while they were getting their eating disorder treatment, hey, when you get done here, you know, we're gonna focus on your, we're gonna focus on your eating disorder treatment while you're here. Mm-hmm. But then when you leave, then you're gonna do your trauma work in the community to really get to the roots of what's causing that. And suddenly I was the community and there wasn't anything out there to help these people. Oh. So I had people who were fine with their eating disorders and now like they just had these symptoms of trauma that were manifesting and there was just not any like higher levels of care, any programs for me to send them to. So it sort of started organically out of seeing a need with my patients.

Like so many women, we kind of adapt for when there's a need.

Yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah. And so I know that when we had talked about you being on the podcast, you kind of wanted to talk about how trauma affects women and women in business and how it affects, you know, entrepreneurs and that kind of thing. And so would you like to talk about that just a little bit?

Yeah, absolutely. Just to sort of set the stage a little bit, 1 out of 3 females and 1 out of 5 boys are sexually abused before age 18. And that's probably an underestimate. That's just what we know of. And then you get into adult assaults and toxic relationships and things like that. And the reality is there are a lot of females out there who have a significant trauma history who may have never even told anybody about it. And they're just surviving, and they're still doing the work, and they're still taking care of babies and families, and they're starting businesses. And so for us, I think to be able to give an opportunity for these women to find healing while still maintaining their daily lives is just so critical because we want to make it easier on them. We don't want it to be just a slog to be able to get through the day.

Do you think many women know they're suffering from that?

Think I, you know, one of the tragic things of trauma is people tend to downplay it.

Yeah.

And I think unfortunately, because they never tell anybody, or if they did tell somebody, then unfortunately a lot of times they had a negative reaction like, oh, that didn't happen, or we're not gonna talk about that. Or, you know, they just sort of, it gets swept under the rug. And so they just internalize it and keep going and then say, okay, well it wasn't that bad. And I see a very common pattern among trauma survivors is they compare to other people with trauma. And so it's the same thing as, you know, the veteran who comes back after witnessing horrific things and says, "Yeah, but I didn't get my legs blown off, so do I really deserve help?" And I think females are notorious for doing that, is we tend to put other people first and put our babies first and put our families and our businesses and everything else first, that we go, "Yeah, but it's not that big of a deal.

I can handle it." Yeah, that's such a good point. Yeah. I feel like so many times in my own life even, I have found myself saying like, well, it could be worse, you know? And it's like, it's like, surely it could be, but that doesn't mean that we are not all going through things, you know?

Very true. Well, you think I, when I take a break, it's when I'm like, it's when you're really sick, when you should have taken time off or whatever months before and you just let it fester and fester and like, okay, now I'm, I'm dying at this point cuz I took it so long to, you know, take care of myself. So I guess that happens with trauma as well. You just put it aside.

I, I think that's such a great example. We do, we tend to just put others first and we just keep going because we feel like we don't have a choice. I think most mamas would say, if I stop, what is my house gonna look like? Yeah. Right. And then for the, the mama business owners out there, if they stop, it's not just their house, it's their business, and maybe it's their household income as well. And so They, they don't feel like they have the ability or the grace to kind of take a deep breath and stop and do some self-care.

Oh, absolutely. I think women relate security with, with money a lot. Sure. So I think I can't stop, can't not have this happen cuz I have to pay bills next month. Sure. I always think that.

Yeah. So there's really no time to take care of any lingering trauma or symptoms or anything like that, or even take the time to recognize you might have had it. Yeah.

You know? Yeah.

So when, when people come in to see you, like what are some common things that they've got going on in terms of, I guess maybe symptoms or reactions where they're finally saying like, perhaps I need to go speak to somebody now and, and get some help.

A lot of times we see that they've, they've sort of reached a point to where they can't hide it anymore. Mm-hmm. And so maybe they're the mom that they can't take their kids to the park because they're too worried that. "Somebody's gonna steal their kids, something's gonna happen to them." And so, they start to see that it actually impacts their children, or they see that, you know, they're having issues in their relationship with their husband, that they're having intimacy issues, that they're having connection issues, those sorts of things. Sometimes it's just the nightmares, the anxiety, you know, over time, things just start to really compound. You know, I always use the example, it's like if you broke your arm and you never had it healed properly, then, you would still have an arm and it's still going, but after a while you're gonna get enough arthritis in there and you're gonna get enough pain and swelling and things like that from having an improperly placed arm that you're not gonna be able to ignore it after a certain point.

Yeah, that makes sense.

It does. It, it's hard because sometimes, I don't know, like I, I don't know when it's anxiety. Does that make sense? Like I worry, I know I worry. I worry a lot.

Yes.

And I'm worried about things that hasn't even happened yet and I'm like, wait, stop.

Calm down.

Like, it's not a big deal.

Yeah.

We were kind of talking about this.

We've talked, we've talked about it even in terms of like postpartum depression, right?

Oh yeah.

So it's like, I feel sad right now, but how sad is scary sad? Like how do we know? You know what I mean? And so like we just mentioned, these, these gals might be experiencing something and they don't know if it's time to get help, you know? But it sounds like it gets to the point where it's affecting everyday life. And so then it's, then it's time.

And I think the, the big message is they don't, if, if we could tell them that you don't have to wait till that point, right? That if you're feeling bad, that's bad enough to get help. You don't have to wait until you hit a certain line, right? In order to be able to justify going in to see a therapist or getting some extra support.

Right, right.

Like you don't get a, you know, extra badge of armor cuz you, you got through it.

I know. Yeah.

There's no medal.

You know, when I've looked, I've asked, I'm waiting on mine.

No one's handed me one.

And so, That's right. That's right. And so you, I mean, you guys don't just help adults though as well. You help teens, you know, in through trauma and that kind of thing.

Mm-hmm.

We do. So we also have programs for, in multiple cities for teenagers that have had trauma, anxiety, self-harm is huge among teenagers now.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

And they can go to our program and they get therapy for half the day. And then we have an accredited school with a certified teacher on site. So they don't lose those school credits and they can stay up to a semester, usually covered by insurance. So it's a real gift for those kids that, you know, school is so hard for kids these days. And if you're struggling, then just to be able to make your kid go to school every day can be really difficult and you feel like you're just sending them into the fire.

Yeah.

We actually had a lady that came in the other day and her, her daughter had called from the office and said, come pick me up, they're being mean to me. Like, it was, she's like, you gotta get through this. You gotta get through this. And I felt so bad. She was trying to talk to her daughter and, and there was some, you know, yeah, girls, you know, I'm not sure if it's trauma or not, but obviously bullying her, doing something maybe. I can't remember the exact situation, but I remember listening to the mom and the pain in her voice that you, you have to stay, you gotta stick this through.

Yeah.

But if there was a program for them to like, hey, you know what? Like, we gotta, you know, help you with this and you're not missing. She, I think she was worried about her missing school.

Right.

Was it, was, was really important to her.

Yeah.

I mean, you can't keep missing school.

That would be a huge concern, but I'd be willing to bet that I mean, I didn't know that options like that would be covered by insurance. And I'd be willing to bet that many people don't know that.

For sure. And we've, I mean, we've been through that at my house and it does hurt your mama heart when they look at you and you know that they're struggling every day. You really do. I thought, you know, I, you feel like you're sending them into a boxing ring every day to just get beat up emotionally, if not physically. And so about where do you draw the line between, okay, that's gonna toughen 'em up and they're gonna learn how to deal with things versus man, they're just getting a beating. Beatdown every day and nobody needs that.

Yeah. Yeah. I feel like that's such like a, I don't know, I don't wanna say older person cuz we're not old here, but that's like that sort of like toughing 'em up. That is like a certain kind of a mentality that I feel like I grew up with. Right. Yeah. Like, you know, it's tough it out. Yeah. Because it's gonna, you know, life's gonna hit you harder. So you've gotta kind of learn when you're young.

We tell the boys, oh, you fell, get up, dust yourself off. Let's go.

You know, keep going. Yeah. And I'm even guilty, I think of doing it with my own kids still, even though like when we were talking to this gal that Marie mentioned, this particular, her daughter was in middle school and we all like said as women, like those were the worst years.

Seriously.

Yeah. Like those were the worst of it. And so like, I know that and I remember that. Yeah. And then when my daughter is having a hard time with, you know, a friend at volleyball or whatever, I'm like, oh, you're fine. You know, whatever. And it's like, really, I should think back to those times that were so rough. Cuz like at that time it was like the biggest deal. It was your whole life when it is, maybe you were fighting with a friend or going through bullying or whatever. But yeah, that mentality to like, you know, come on, you gotta get it together. I'm still guilty of that to this day.

But even on top of that, you have, you have them going through some hard times at school, but if there's underlying trauma that maybe they've not shared, how more intense are they feeling those feelings? And yeah, you're not aware of 'em.

And it's so, I mean, it was, I, you know, obviously it was happening when we were young too.

Sure.

But now with the addition of the internet and oh man, I mean it's, You know, at least if you were being bullied at school, then you got home and it, it stopped, right? There was no connection. They weren't usually showing up at your house. But this way, I mean, they're in your pocket. And those voices of comparison and that constantly like seeing what other people think of you and looking for approval and having their comments, it, you can't escape it now.

Yeah. Well, no. And then what you see online is not always real and you can't, you don't realize that it's not real. It's not real.

Look at everybody's Instagram.

Look at it.

I mean, it's just the way it is.

Yeah.

We're all guilty of it, right? Like, You post the best edited picture, or you post the be— you know, the best angles. Yeah. The best things. I do it all the time, you know? And it's just, it's not real. And I like, I thank God that I'm not that age anymore.

Yes.

You know what I mean? Because the pressure alone, oh yeah. We feel pressure as business owners, as moms. These kids feel pressure a million times worse.

Well, we do. We compare ourselves to other people.

Yeah.

We do a lot. Even as business owners, we're like comparing our, what we're doing versus what someone else is doing. And like, are we doing it the right way? Are we doing this? You know, are we gonna get it right?

Yeah.

And how does it look?

So this, this school situation that you guys offer, it's for kids that have been through trauma. Is it also for like behavioral stuff and that kind of thing?

Yeah. So I mean, kids who, I mean, if, if a kid's anxious or depressed, they often, that's how they act out. Sure.

Right.

Like they, they don't typically say, you know, mom, I need a hug. Sometimes they do, but a lot of times it looks a lot angrier than that. And so, um, we can absolutely help with that. Um, You know, anxiety, depression, bullying, school issues, things like that. We can help with all of that. Grief, if they've experienced a significant loss and, you know, it's hard for them to just keep swimming. So we can really help with a wide variety. Substance use, you know, vaping is so huge these days. So if a kid's being, you know, struggling with that and being tempted, then we can offer them support for that as well.

Yeah, I mean, I feel like so much, especially with situations like that, if a kid is caught with something, they just sent— like, they get sent to alternative school, you know, they get off-campus suspension or whatever. They're in trouble. And there's not really anybody, I guess, helping or advising as to, like, the— why were you doing it to start? Why do you have this, you know? And what's going on with that? So that's important. That's super important.

Oh, absolutely. I just— are there— as a mom, I, I mean, I have boys, so I, I— they seem good, but I mean, is there something that— are there any telltale signs that something that we're— I— we're always caught up in work and busy and something that we should be looking out for. Obviously the acting out. Like, I have a son, he used to be loving and fun, and he just turned 15 and now completely shuts down. And I'm like, is there something going on? No, Mom, I'm just tired. Like, I'm just whatever. And I'm like, are you sure?

You sound like me. Yeah, I think that's such a great question. So first of all, unfortunately there's not a, a silver bullet list of symptoms, right? Like we just, we don't know. Sometimes kids actually hide things really well and sometimes it is hormones and mood and changes like that. But I think that anytime you notice a significant change in behavior in your child, always that's the time to, to raise your little red flags and to wonder if they're suddenly going to bed really early or they're not sleeping, they're staying up late, they're wanting to miss school a lot, they're having changes in friend groups. They— you, I mean, check your kids' phones and their iPads, and I cannot emphasize that enough. See what are they doing, who are they talking to. You know, now it's, it really is the Wild West out there and they can talk to absolutely anybody at any time and they really don't know who they are. So I think it's really important that we're staying on top of that with our kiddos and just keeping that open line of communication, which can be really difficult, particularly with the boys.

I have a son, it's 17.

It's a battle, but I think just keeping your Keep your eyes open and asking questions. If, if it, if something doesn't feel right, then there's a good chance that there's something else going on and it's worth investigating. Changes in grades too.

Definitely ask him like, hey, what's going on? He's like, mom, I'm just, just tired. It was long practice or whatever the case. And you wanna trust him, you wanna give him a little space, but I don't wanna give him so much where I don't notice something.

Exactly.

If there's something was going on.

Yeah. So I, I do think that's where going through that phone can be very beneficial.

Yeah.

Because that holds, like all of us, right? Like I could hand you my phone and you would learn a lot about me. And so I think the same way with our teenagers, we can learn a whole lot about them by looking up what are they searching, who are they talking to, what are they doing on their phones?

Yeah. This makes me feel like I need to get into my kids' phone like as soon as possible. I feel like I'm lax on it.

I try.

I have all girls and so I don't know if it's, I just, think that, and really the only one of mine that has one is our oldest and she's like so mature. But then at the same time, that doesn't mean you don't make mistakes.

Mm-hmm.

Or that you're not doing things you're not supposed to be doing. And I would hate to think that I'm just like turning a blind eye because I just think everything's fine. So I will be looking in that phone.

I need the boys to know I have everything.

She's gonna call me now. Yeah.

I have every password. I go and I, hey, I'm gonna randomly check and phones get, you know, charged on my desk and it's there overnight. You're not gonna have it. And. That's just the rules. You'll get freedom as you show maturity and you lose it when you don't.

Yeah.

Yeah. And I think just, I mean, like you mentioned, even just like knowing who their friends are.

Yeah.

You know, when I was a kid, I was in a really good friendship group, but my brother kind of fell in with a, a rougher friendship group. And so I think that by doing these investigations, you can kind of figure out who your kids are hanging out with. And I think even just monitoring that is important.

You know, it's so crazy. Like when I was little, we had a house. Phone, right? Yeah. When I was a teenager.

Yeah.

And so there was that chance that no matter who called, your mom might answer.

Yeah.

And so she knew who you were talking to because she was answering the phone or sometimes getting on there and being like, hey, get off of here.

It's time to go.

Exactly. She could pick it up in any given moment. And we have now lost that.

Yeah.

So we really don't actually have any idea who our kids are talking to.

Yeah. Oh, and that's so scary.

Well, and that's why we go to everything. Like I'm, I'm involved. We try to do, go to all the sports. We go to the parties. We, well, everybody come into our house. You can come to our house, come hang out at our house. Yes.

Yeah.

It's the biggest thing that we try to do. Um, just because we wanna know what's going on. And, and I remember growing up, my friends loved coming to our little bitty house growing up.

Yeah.

So that was something I was used to and not realizing it was more of a safety mechanism for my mom.

Totally. She wanted everybody. My grandma did the same thing. She, my dad years later would say, Oh mom, it was so nice of you, you know, to let, you always let everybody come over. And she was like, do you think that wasn't for a reason? Yeah. Yeah. I was wanting to see who you were around and what you were talking about and what you were getting up to, you know?

It's brilliant. Yes.

Right. That's, that's a good monitoring system.

You just go broke feeding all the boys.

Oh my gosh. I can only imagine.

That is no joke. They eat a lot.

Yes.

All the time.

Well, and I guess I was by two teenagers. They're both in high school now and they're starting to change and wanting to do stuff and they're very focused. I didn't realize it, boys so much on looks and, you know, taking pictures and flexing and that kind of stuff.

And I'm not that flexing even.

Yes. They want, you know, and I, I, we're very like, no, you cannot post that, that no, we're not doing, I don't, cuz you don't know who's looking at it.

Yeah.

You know, and they don't quite understand sometimes. So it's rough having those conversations and trying to limit with social media. There's a fine line of what's good and what's bad.

Yeah.

You know, we want them to have flexibility on social media some because we're posting, you know, their games and that sometimes recruiters look at social media to get, you know, you possibly scholarships and stuff like that. But there's a fine line of what you can utilize it for. For.

Yeah.

Is that something that the center helps your— I guess if kids were to come and having trouble with social media, maybe being addicted to it or doing stuff like that, that they help with?

We do. So we've actually had a few kids come through with like an electronics type of addiction, um, and seen huge, huge success in working with them and really kind of getting to the bottom of what hole is that filling and how can we help you find something else and find a healthy way. Because Unfortunately, in this day and age, you can't eliminate electronics.

Can't, right?

So how can we help you to use them in a way that's functional without getting your self-esteem and your needs met from that? Mm-hmm.

Yeah. And do you work with like the public schools? Like, do you have like some kind of an arrangement or a partnership where it's like, hey, these kids are, they keep going into, you know, maybe they're getting in trouble a lot or maybe they're doing that kind of thing so that people, you know, know about you guys and know about all these services.

So we do get some referrals from school counselors for sure. Mm-hmm. And I think it's just that continual, you know, getting the word out and keeping it fresh so that they know that we are an option if, if a kid is struggling.

Yeah, that's important. Yeah. Well, I mean, is there anything else that you want to share with our listeners or, or touch on, you know, that some things that you wanted to talk about specifically?

Yeah, I, I think that's the main thing is just really encouraging people. They can call us or they can text us if they have a question. We really want to be a resource. My whole team is trained that if you call for a service that we don't offer or something that we can't help you with, then we're never going to be a dead-end phone call where we just say, "Okay, well, we don't do that." We're going to say, "No, here's who we recommend," or, "Here's how you can get plugged in with that or what that would look like." And we are always happy to do those sort of triage phone calls. I think as a parent, sometimes there's no guidebook. I'm a psychologist and I'm like lost half the time, right?

Yeah.

There's not a guidebook to being a parent. And so, If you're wondering, okay, my kid is exhibiting, you know, X, Y, and Z behaviors, how much of a concern is that?

Yeah.

He's tired after practice. What does that look like? Right. Then we absolutely would love to brainstorm that with you and help you think through and say, you know, that's kind of normal, keep an eye on it. Or I think you should probably bring him in and let's see if we can get him some support. So we, we just wanna be a resource for this community all the way around, whether you use our services or not.

I love that. It's kind of like what you want to do. You want to be a resource for people.

That's right.

Because you just don't know. I mean, I know here we are focusing on all our kids' stuff, and I, I had, you know, like, even what about friends? You have friends that— are there anything that an adult would exhibit that maybe we could, you know, could suggest? Like, hey, you might want to talk with someone. Is that a weird question? I'm not going to ask that.

Like, if that makes sense.

Like, if we see things in the community, maybe if we saw someone and we're sitting down, we're talking with, let's say someone comes, a business owner, and there's tell signs of something like, hey, they have maybe some trauma that maybe as we get to know them, it might be something we would suggest. Does that make sense? It's all right. Sorry, it's kind of hard to ask that question.

No.

So like, how nosy do we need to be?

Yeah. You know, I think that's something we've actually lost is as society has kind of, yeah, progressed, quote unquote, is being more nosy and taking care of each other. I think our, our parents' generation grew up with, if you did something in the neighborhood, the neighbors were gonna call and you knew, and everybody kind looked out for each other, even if it felt a little invasive. There were some real pros to that. And we have absolutely lost that with this idea of, "That's none of my business. Let's live and let live." And maybe that's normal. And the one thing I think to remember is, if it's not normal for you, it's not normal. So, if you see a mom who is, you know, she's just chronically stressed and always, you know, on the verge, she probably needs some support. You know, we're not meant to live that way. If you see somebody who, you know, they're continually signing up to go to things and then they don't show up, there's probably a reason. And so asking the question, I think people actually don't— very seldom will feel like it's invasive or pried upon. I think most of the time they feel like you care. And I think there's value in that. I was obsessed with Diet Dr Pepper and I was at the gas station one day and I had— I guess my eyeliner had smudged, and it was like, you know, my allergies or whatever watering, and it was underneath my eye. And I probably looked a little rough in hindsight and didn't really realize it.

We've all been there.

We've all been there. And as I was checking out, the cashier looked at me and she goes, "Are you okay? Yeah, do you need help?" And I was like, "Oh no, I'm good," you know, whatever. But it actually touched my heart, and I go back there more now because I'm like, you know what, I trust that the next person who comes in here that maybe really isn't okay, that they're gonna look out for them.

Yeah.

So I think that it actually builds trust and confidence with our customers, with our clients, with our friends if we're asking the question.

Yeah, I think that's so true.

Well, you, you brought up a thing looking, I felt kind of guilty asking someone. So we had a young lady come in this past week, just needed some, a safe space for a second, right? And at first I doubted myself. Yeah, because she's like, she looked kind of like she had been crying. And I'm like, are you homeless? I wasn't sure. She came in. She's like, I'm not a hobo, I promise. Can I just stay in here? And I was like, what's wrong? And she's like, well, a gentleman was following her and she didn't feel safe. And I looked at her arm was broken. She had some bruises. I'm like, let's sit down. And then I didn't know what to do.

Yeah.

And I didn't know how to— she's like, no, no, it's fine. I'm like, it's— you know what? That's not okay. It's not okay for someone to put their hands on you. Did he put his hands on you?

Yeah.

To have this conversation, but I didn't feel like I had the right. Does that make sense? To ask, to ask those questions. But I didn't, I'm like, if you're my daughter, I would want to know this. Like, yeah, she had early, early 20s maybe. And I just didn't know what to do. But I mean, she was like, and she kept, how do I put it? She kept making it okay. And I'm like, it's not okay. I've been married 20 years. My husband would never, yeah. I don't care what I do. He would never lay a hand on me. Someone who cares for you will not hit you.

Yeah.

And I, and she, it, it, I don't know if it clicked ever, but yeah. So it was, but I felt very awkward, pro, I guess, prodding into her life a little bit, but I felt like someone needed to.

Yeah. I, I've, I really think we have been trained to, to not prod, to not ask the questions, to look the other way. And that is tragic to me. Mm-hmm. So I love, I'm like, oh, that does my heart so good.

Yeah.

That you guys are such a safe space and that you allowed her to come and that you provided that support. And I just, I think that we can all take a cue from that because here's the deal. People who are, people always ask me, you brought this up, like it's a heavy topic, right? The things that we work with and people say, how do you do it and how do you not get burned out? And I say, well, if somebody's in my office, that means they're getting better. That means there's hope. That means they've, they're working on it. And that means I know they're gonna be in a better place. The person I really worry about and that I take home with me is the woman I see at ATB.

Right.

And the woman who's just driving down the street and not getting that help.

Yeah.

Those are the ones that we actually do need to ask the question. And I think it's very easy if you're in an abusive situation or if you have been in the past, so you're just sort of beat down mentally to tell yourself that certain things are acceptable and that this is just okay. And again, it's that minimization of trauma, right? So it may, maybe you were voice number 7 and it's gonna take voice number 15 to get through to her, for her to go, wow, all these people are telling me this isn't okay. Yeah, maybe it's not. But I think we still have to be— keep echoing that chorus of this is not right. And if it's not okay for you, it's, it's not okay for somebody else.

I just couldn't shake the feeling of I, I was invading her privacy. Does that make sense?

Yeah.

I was like, um, but something told me just no, this isn't okay. I said, you, you— she had bruises. I'm like, I don't care. You're— sit down.

But she came in here for your help, you know?

She did. She— I, it was, it, we were, I had the door closed and she yanked on it and she came in and she just, I, at first I didn't know what to expect. And then when I started talking with her, I'm like, okay, something's not right. Like she's scared. Yeah. Let's sit down. And then she started kind of sharing some stuff a little bit here and there. And then she's like, but it's okay. I'm like, that's not okay.

No.

Yeah.

That's not okay. Why do you think that's okay? And then she kind of shared, you know, that it's, it's been multiple relationships. So something she's just used to.

Right.

And I'm like, that's not okay. We gotta, you know, we gotta get you some help. So yeah, it was, it was not a great day, but I'm glad I was here. Yeah.

And I mean, at that point she had, she felt comfortable not just sharing what was happening today, but things, you know, that had happened before. And so she must have looked to you as like a safe person to speak to.

But now just talking, I felt guilty cuz I felt guilty for asking.

Yeah. But you know, I think we've, if you relate it, you know, I think we've gotta start equating mental health with physical health.

Health, right?

And so if somebody was having a heart attack on the street, hopefully we wouldn't look and say, "Man, I really want to help this guy, but that feels kind of invade— that feels like I'm being nosy. So maybe he's fine. Maybe he just likes to make those noises and hit his chest. I don't know, but I'm going to let him do it because I don't want to get in his space." I don't think we would do that, right? I think we rush to his aid and he would have people circling around him and Somebody calling 911 and somebody doing CPR and somebody getting water and somebody, right?

Yeah.

And why don't, why can't we do that with mental health?

Yeah.

When, when someone's having a, a breakdown, when they're struggling, when somebody's hurting, why can't we circle them as a community and say, okay, here's this resource.

Yeah.

Let me hook you up with this. Here's how you can find housing. Here's how you can get out of here. Here's how, let's do the same thing because mental health is just as detrimental as physical health.

Yeah, you're right. Yeah, it does. I mean, when you're not emotionally okay, your physical health is affected for sure. You have aches, you have pains, you're sick more often with whatever. So definitely. You had mentioned something earlier about grief and that causing a type of trauma. I very recently had a very good friend of mine who lost her husband very suddenly, and their young son was part— not part of, but it saw. And it's very traumatic, very, very sudden. It was a very weird situation. And she's— there's time to grieve. And I think there's some time that she just— she needs some alone time right now. But how long is okay to be alone? Does that make sense? Like, how long do you give her time to have some just quiet time without having everybody— because everybody wants to pounce in right away and help. Let's do a meal train, let's do this, let's help her out. And right now she just needs quiet. She needs to figure out what's going on. But 2, 3 months, 4 months out, that's when people kind of forget what has happened, but she's still in that low, right? How long does that take?

Uh, you know, it's such a good question. So the, the DSM, our little diagnostic handbook, gives you 2 years, okay? And if it's still struggling after 2 years, then maybe it might be something that's a little more clinical. Yeah, I, I don't know that there's a time frame. I think that grief truly comes in ebbs and flows, and I think you're gonna have days where you go, okay, I can breathe and this is gonna be okay. And then you have another day where maybe it's an anniversary or a holiday or a significant reminder, or maybe it's just a Tuesday and you wish you had that person to go home and watch a Netflix with, right? Like, so I think we're gonna have those ebbs and flows for the rest of our lives potentially. But I do think, you know, I try— I have a friend who lost her mom 5 years ago, and I try to put it on my calendar every every year. So I make sure I reach out. And then reaching out, you know, other times as well, like, hey, I just really want to still check on you when somebody's hurting. Because I think we do tend to put a time limit on things, and it's usually months, not years.

Yeah, definitely.

Yeah, after that everybody does kind of forget and it goes away. I think the meal train should probably start a few months later.

Absolutely. Yes, I definitely agree with that. I just— it was something I had thought about with regards to We have friends who lose someone and they're still sad over time. And at what point do you think it's like, hey, grief is just so different for everyone. It is. And who you lost is very different and how they're, it's so different. But it's a very, as you get older, you see more of it, I guess.

Yeah.

With friends and family. But it's just, it's been so close to home. It was something I was thinking of, but she needs years. She's not gonna be okay for years. And that's okay not to be okay.

Yeah.

And we just gotta be there when she needs someone to hug her.

Yeah.

But I don't know, like, far as trauma-wise, how does that help?

We've experienced grief in our family. Yeah. And I talk about it a lot with my dad. He's lost, you know, a partner in the past and different things like that. And so the way, and I saw this analogy and I always, it stays with me forever that there's a box and there's a button and that when that button gets hit by a ball in there, that's when you get the, like, it's almost like it catches your breath, you know?

Yeah.

It catches you off guard. And so at first the ball is really big, right? So it's constantly hitting that button, constantly hitting it, and you're having a hard time. But then as time goes on, your grief doesn't really get smaller, but that ball gets smaller. And so it doesn't get hit as often. Ah, you know, it's still, it's still super intense every time it gets you, but maybe it's not, you know, 4 times a day anymore. Yeah. Now it's maybe once a week or, you know, whatever. And when I explained that to my dad, what I had read, he was like, wow, that's like a really Whoever, whoever came up with that analogy, it, it seemed fairly accurate, you know? Um, and so that's kind of the way I think about it when, cuz he's still to this day, it's been years.

Yeah.

And he still, every once in a while, have a real hard time and I just think it's normal, you know?

Yeah. I guess normalizing it that it's okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And talking about it. Cause I think sometimes when it's been years, our, our mutual friend, she, she's like, it's been a little while and I, I feel silly bringing it up again, but I'm still hurting because of it.

Yeah. But I mean, I just think, you know what, you can be just as sad as the day it happened. And that's okay, you know, for sure.

And I love that analogy. Yeah, I'm gonna use that one.

Yeah, it's great.

Yeah, it makes sense. I mean, obviously there's— and you, like you said, it might be a Tuesday, you're like, oh, I wish they were here.

Yeah.

Or you hear a song or you see something that, oh, they used to like that. Yeah, you know, and it brings all those emotions back all at once. But it just— I had a friend very recently lose, and it was very sudden, very traumatic, and it's like, oh man, I just the thinking of her journey to healing and, you know, going through that. So grief counseling, is that something the center does offer?

We do, yes. We have grief counseling for all the way down to age 5, for men, women, teens, the whole bit.

Yeah, because I mean, it's important. Yeah, because kids— I'm experienced too, and it's different emotions. I mean, their emotions are so intense when they're smaller and they lose someone.

Yeah.

So sometimes when we have guests on, we ask them to give like tips or advice And so I wonder if you might have any tips or advice aside from obviously going to get the help that they so deserve. Do you have any sort of coping mechanisms that like moms that are just really going through it might be able to utilize when they're, you know, when they're not at a center like yours? Yeah.

So, you know, it's a little, it sounds a little cheesy, but it's so effective is gratitude journaling. And really and truly, if you've ever been depressed and then sat down and just thought about the things in your life you're thankful for.

Yeah.

And I heard a sermon once and he said, you know, "If you told me, if somebody kidnapped my wife and kids right now and said, you know, you have to give up everything to get them back," he said, "I wouldn't even blink." Yeah. And so, if I still have them, it doesn't matter what else is there. I actually still have everything.

Right.

And I think kind of putting things in perspective for ourself like that, to be able to say, "Okay, these are the things that I'm grateful for and that are going right." And I think when you, especially as a business owner when you're driven and you, you wanna get to that next level and you wanna keep going. And, and you know, as a mom, right? Like we want our kids to be successful however we define that and we want them to be good and healthy. And so I think when it, we can be very hard on ourselves when we don't feel like things are going in the direction at the pace that we want them to. So I think stopping and realizing that we're probably doing better than what we think and really practicing gratitude can be hugely, hugely helpful.

Yeah, that's a good tip. Yeah.

I mean, it's something we, I, I try to wake up and, okay, what am I grateful for today to make the day go well, start off right.

Right.

It's something I've always done or I try to, but it's hard when you're super hyper-focused on succeeding or getting to the next level. It's really hard to sit back and realize where you've come and to be grateful for it.

Yeah. Mm-hmm. That's super good advice. Some advice I feel like I personally needed to hear today. But sometimes it's wild, like we have these guests on and stuff. And it's, it's kind of random, you know, people will reach out or we'll reach out to others.

Yeah.

And I feel like every episode of this, like I end up hearing for whatever reason what I needed to hear. Like someone's talking to me. That's great though. I mean, so many people could use that advice.

Yeah, absolutely. Gratitude journal. Definitely.

Yeah, for sure. So we usually also like to ask our guests, what's one of your very favorite things about what you do? And that might be hard.

Sometimes it's hard to, to pick one, but, um, you know, for me, I, I often have people in my office saying, I've never told anybody this before, I've never shared this. And I, I consider it such a sacred honor to be able to walk along people's healing journey with them, no matter what it is that they're healing from. But just to be able to be a part of their story, there is, there is truly no higher honor.

Yeah, I love that.

I know it is an honor. Like, someone, someone opens and shares with you, you— it is because it's hard for a lot people. So that's great.

That's awesome. Every story is sacred, and that's part of theirs, and it's how they ended up becoming who they are, and it's, it's how you got here and why you were the person that you are. And so just to be able to be a little part of that is huge.

Oh, that's great. I love that. Um, and then lastly, we typically ask our guests to just sort of share how our listeners and viewers can get a hold of you for your services.

Yeah, so they can call or text our mainline number, which is 210-254-3618. They can also look us up online at innovarecoverycenter.com. Those are probably the, the very best ways to be able to get a hold of us.

Perfect.

I love that you can text. Some people can't, you know, some people can't put it into words sometimes, right?

Yeah.

Oh, we'll often have people say, yeah, I don't really like to talk, phone calls are too hard for me, let's just text. And you You can send a picture of your insurance card, front and back. We've had people get their entire appointment set up only via text. So we love being able to offer that service in this day and age. Yeah.

Yeah. Perfect. Well, we'll put some of that information in the show notes as well. You know, when this episode goes live. But I just want to thank you so much for being on with us. What you're doing is so, so important. I feel like your services are underutilized. We all need these services in one way or another. And so I just want to thank you for being here and sharing with us.

Thank you so much for having me. It was such a pleasure.

Yeah. And then I'll also thank our listeners for tuning in to this week's episode of the Working Moms of San Antonio podcast, and we'll catch you guys next week.

See you guys next week.

Thanks so much for tuning in to this episode of the Working Moms of San Antonio podcast. We hope you love today's chat and found a little inspiration to take with you into your week. If you have a podcast topic suggestion or a question you'd love for us to cover, definitely send us an email at hello@workingmomsofsanantonio.com. We'd love to hear from you, and until next time, see you in the community.