Elbow Room: Transforming Backyard Spaces into Functional Living Solutions

Welcome to the Working Moms of San Antonio podcast. We're your host, Erika Radis and Marie Lifschultz, a realtor and lender here in San Antonio. But most importantly, we're working moms just like you.

This podcast is all about creating a space where we can come together, share stories, and learn from each other. We love connecting with local moms in business Hearing about their journeys and how they're balancing it all, because let's be honest, it's not always easy, but it's so worth it.

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Now onto today's episode. Grab a cup of coffee, settle in, and let's get started.

Welcome to this week's episode of the Working Moms of San Antonio podcast. Today we are, uh, joined by our guests, the gals behind the company Elbow Room. And so I'm gonna turn it over to both of them to kind of introduce themselves and then just talk about the company.

Well, I'm Erin Callahan. I'm the co-founder of Elbow Room, and that's what I do. We, we, I really focus on Elbow Room as my baby.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

And my name is Amy Moody. I am the vice president. Most importantly, I'm Erin's sister.

Yes.

We love that.

Yeah.

And next door neighbor.

Oh my gosh. That's amazing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, tell us a little bit more about what Elburn Room is and what you guys do for the community and that kind of stuff.

We are a niche construction builder and we focus on building small, whether that's a backyard office or an in-law suite or a small house with an ADU behind it. Or even a micro-community, which is a small plot of land with many small buildings on it. That's what we do. We build that and, and we're very good at it. I'm pretty proud of it. And Amy has really been a driving force behind the vast improvement of Elbow Room.

Thank you. You're welcome. It's very kind.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's awesome. And how long have y'all been doing it?

Since 2000. And since 2020.

Wow.

We're a COVID-born business, you know.

And what got you— what, I guess, well, how did it come about? Like, what did y'all— what made y'all create Elbow Room?

I think from the philosophy of take whatever is a challenge because that's where there is opportunity. So the challenge was we didn't have enough space. You know, there's a lot of kids in the house. We got work papers and all the things that are just kind of draining down and taking your space. And I said to my husband, hey, I need a place to go do my art and do my work.

Yeah.

And go build me a she shed.

Yeah.

And so then it just kept getting bigger and bigger and I got it more fancy and let's do LVP and I want it drywalled to make sure it's watertight and I wanted special lighting. And our neighbors noticed it and they loved it. And we said, that's gonna be our business. We're gonna start building these little elbow rooms.

Well, I think that happened in 2020 when everybody was at home working. I mean, I was working from home. I had the boys at home from school. Roger, I mean, oh my God, there's too many people in the house. Yeah.

And I think my husband was like, the house got really small.

Yeah.

You could only travel and leave the house for like essential travel. Remember that?

Yeah. Yes.

And I, if you could go, he go, you could go to Home Depot. And I think it was his excuse to get out of the house.

Yeah.

To go buy stuff at Home Depot for our new budding business.

Mine too. He was, he was always at Home Depot.

Yeah.

But again, the house got really, really small.

Right.

Because everybody was home 24/7.

Yeah.

And, uh, trying to work and concentrate and help with school, online school became an issue for a lot of people. So that makes a lot of sense that, hey, I need my space. You know, to do whatever, to have that extra room in the back.

Yeah. And COVID really drove multi-generational living.

Mm-hmm.

So even though Amy and I don't live in the same house at the time when COVID happened, I lived down the street and then we had Snowmageddon and it was so far.

Yeah.

It was just like walking down the street felt forever away. And we kind of came up with the idea, we're gonna live next door. So it is still kind of living in each other's backyard, which is what a lot of our customers have been driven to do. They want to live really close to their parent or to their sister, or they have an adult child that needs support.

Sure.

And so it's just a very natural inclination to build these small buildings behind your house and then have someone live in it.

I think that's the thing over the last few years is we keep seeing things happening from pandemics where, you know, the elderly who are living in assisted living, you can't go and visit them.

No.

For good reason.

Yeah.

And now people are thinking, well, I really want to have mom and dad close by when they're aging. And so like having a little extra space in the backyard where their parent still feels very independent, yet they're investing in their own property as opposed to just pouring it into some facility that they'll never see that rent back.

Oh, absolutely. I think that's the reason I actually bought my home. Um, we, we lived outside of town near Helotes, and my parents lived in town. It wasn't far, it wasn't a lot of miles, but it took me 40— my— I remember one evening my dad called, said, hey, your mom fell and I can't get her up, I need help. So I'm like, okay, I'm on my way, I'm, you know, I'm coming. And I'm just going up Bandera, 45 minutes just to get there, and she wasn't that far away. And I'm like, oh, we're moving. So I intentionally bought my home in with the thought process of if they needed to move I had a— it's a split-level home. They had a small space that would fit for them, and then we started thinking, oh, we need to add something in the back for them to— I mean, they, they were very capable of living on their own. There was a circumstances they need a little more extra help. Yeah. You know, where you could kind of, you know, be there for them.

We see, uh, younger families doing this as well whose parents are still more than capable of living independently.

Yeah.

But they're planning for the future and knowing they need the help now with their little kids.

Yes.

So we see that a lot too. Yeah.

Um, well, I think it's beneficial. The multi-generational living is a blessing for any family and it's huge right now. It's huge.

I, I mean, both of us are in real estate and to have like an additional ADU at the back, um, for mom or grandma or whomever adds incredible value to your property. Um, and those houses fly off the market if you can find one, right? That has that in the back. I mean, they go right away.

Well, even if you have an adult, child who's maybe in college or, you know, maybe can't afford a home just yet. At least they have their space and able to come and go, and it gives them some independence, right?

Yeah, that happened at my house.

So I love that show Love on the Spectrum.

Yeah.

And my favorite guy is Connor, and he spends all this time in the backyard talking about the ADU that his parents are building for him. Oh, and it's just so awesome because it is about having that independence and that closeness.

Yes.

So I just always have to bring up Love on the Spectrum.

Yes. Well, um, I've looked at you gals' website and these are not she sheds. No, these are fancy real life little, you know, little homes. And so can you talk to us a little bit about kind of what differentiates you guys from some of the other like tiny home type stuff happening out, out there now?

You wanna take that question?

Oh yeah.

I think. We've put an incredible amount of time into getting the right product in the right space and getting the right use of the limited floor space that you have from the product we're selling. And, and we did that by working with Local Architect Group that has really similar values as us. We work with a local design firm, again, really similar values with us. They understand the product we're trying to put out there, which is modern, clean, terrific style, quality. It's gonna last. It's not something people want to spend more time on once it's in the backyard. And then thinking about, okay, well, why— we have 4 different models, and why is the Linda so particularly popular? Well, if we think it complements a lot of existing homes and it, and it fits right for when you, you're not wanting your ADU to overwhelm the backyard. Yeah. But as we're growing and we're seeing that people have vacation properties where they'd like to get maybe the guest house on the property before they build that dream home out there, or maybe they want a couple little rental spots and they just need to get going. Well, now we have other designs that we think really work in those spaces. These could certainly go in your backyard, but but they have a little bit more, um, substance to them. Mm-hmm. That would be like our Jane. We have an Austin where we have a rooftop deck. Oh. And that, that can fit really well in a really tight urban space as well as like where you have really terrific Hill Country views.

Right.

Well, the Linda was my choice for my house when I looked at it.

Yeah.

I was telling my husband about, I'm like, look, this would fit in the backyard. We just gotta move our old shed and put that there. We can put it here and it works great.

It really does. Complement.

Yeah.

What's already existing in most backyards and most homes. So we, we do see that a lot.

Well, I have an older home, a 1970s home, and even though it's very modern, it fits in with the structure of the house very, very well. Yeah.

Right.

So yes.

I think what really differentiates us from our competitors and other peo— I mean, ev— there's tons of space in this space. There are lots of people that build, they have prefab units.

Sure.

Other people that build in the backyard. We have custom builders, people that convert sheds. That's not us.

Yeah.

What we do is we bring an incredibly high quality end product and we deliver it with a turnkey service. So it has all the benefits of luxury construction, high quality construction with the hand in hand of we take care of it for you.

Yeah.

So the customer has a great experience at the beginning of the, of the whole entire process. They check, they pick the model, they pick the size, they know the price. It's very transparent. Our prices online, you know, you go on our configurator and you figure out what model you like and you just make a series of choices and that's your price. And the only additional thing to that would be, you know, electrical connections because that changes from Location to location.

Location to location. Sure, sure.

But otherwise, you know what you're gonna pay and then you get to make more choices. You pick your exterior features, you pick your interior package. Amy worked with Up and Co, a local designer company. They won awards and they're really great. And they made 6 different interior design packages from Japandi to farmhouse to modern contemporary, luxe, all the different things that you could possibly think of. So that the customer is able to customize it, make it their own, and then they turn it over to us and we take care of it. Oh, I love that. Very, very efficient and specialized because it takes a certain mindset to build in someone's backyard.

Yes.

Yeah. So that's what we do. That's how we're different.

That was a good answer.

Well, that was really good. It was.

But you know what? I don't think people— if you've never had construction or renovations of any sort, the— you talking about having someone in your backyard. I've had extensive, um, renovations to my home, right? Pool building and so forth. And the headache of it was not fun. So, and because no communication, that kind of stuff. And so having— and I'm not understanding the transparency of stuff was, was really— was they, they weren't transparent, right, on how things— the cost and so forth. So it was very frustrating. So having someone who kind of handhold you and walk you through the process, it makes the experience much more enjoyable.

I think a key thing that we've learned in the last couple years especially is where we want to really spend our time with our client. And what we're really kind of working towards is really putting in that time up front, right? And so we're really bringing the client into that planning part with us and like the decision making about really how they want it to look and feel in the end. And again, we start with a really great platform. So they have a really strong understanding of these are the best possible layouts. And why don't you go ahead and pick between these? Because I can guarantee you my architects and engineers have thought this out far longer and better, right, than we ever could. And we've challenged it in every way from the use of under the stairs to every nook and cranny, every ledge in a shower. And, and we spend a lot more time in the planning part of it. That way, when we go to construction, you're golden. Yeah, sit back and relax. Yeah, don't worry about it. I'm going to get it built. I know what I'm doing. We get our construction manager back there and we get it done. And that allows that customer to take a deep breath and not have to have that feeling of like, what now? What's going to be? Where's it coming from? Who's here? We got that.

And we take away the uncertainty of what it is to have backyard construction. There's always a trade-off when you get a high-quality product like ours, that it's custom quality. It is that good. But the trade-off is you have to give up some of that control.

Right.

Because the way that we're able to manage an efficient build is by putting our processes in place.

Got it.

So if you've gotta be there every second, and you need to have a phone call for, you know, every time we're going to send somebody out there, we're not, we're not for you. Because those customers, they're, it's not going to be the same experience for them. It's frustrating because sometimes contractors don't show up on time. But if you leave it to us and we handle those kinds of situations, you don't have to hear about it. You don't have to worry about it.

And that sounds amazing.

You just, all you have to do is leave your backyard open and go to our portal. We have a little portal through a software program called BuilderTrend. And then they send all their messages to us and we have all that documented and we send our messages back that way. Of course we take phone calls and all those things, but it helps us all keep track, stay on the same page.

Sure.

And it's just, it's as hands-off as it can get for the customer.

Right?

Yeah.

I mean, we all have so much to worry about every day of our lives.

Yeah.

Like I don't wanna have to worry about, in fact, I'm literally having construction done at my house right now. Oh. Nobody is there. I mean, they are there, but, but my husband's not there. I'm not there. It's a gentleman that, right, I got through Marie. We trust him. He shows up on time. Mm-hmm. He cleans up after himself. But to your point, that's kind of a rarity, you know?

Right.

We don't see that all the time. Mm-hmm. Right. And so to have somebody kind of dealing with stuff for you, um, to where I don't have to be home, you, it's, I just know it's gonna happen. It's gonna happen well. Right. I think that's amazing.

That sounds like an amazing choice.

Yes.

Because you know, We can't control every single factor of what's happening.

Sure.

Sometimes you got a contractor that goes in there and they do leave trash.

Sure.

Guess what? All you gotta do is tell us.

Yeah.

And then we check it too.

Well, and of course, yeah, we do that.

But we know.

You know, yeah, it's hard to document every single little second.

Of course.

And all it takes is just a quick phone call, you know, sliding a message through Builder's Trend, and then we go and we take care of it. And we also have built all these processes out so that there's checklist. So those things don't happen.

Yeah.

As much as we can, right?

Yeah.

I think having a small company, especially family-owned company, is so much better than your big corporations. You have hands-on attention, you know, that you guys have taken the time because the customers become family to you guys, you know, that, you know, you take a true interest in what their end goal is going to be. What is your typical length of time for construction for most of the tiny homes?

Amy, answer that because, you know, like, yeah, so I mean, when it's kind of two parts, there's the planning part and permitting, right? And then there's actual build time. And most of our units for the ADUs, ones that are livable spaces, they have plumbing and they have electrical ran to them. Those typically in the construction phase are going to take somewhere around 3, 4 months.

Okay.

Um, and that's— we're going to be fair on weather, a little bit of rain, but San Antonio, right? And in the planning phase, kind of depends on what county we're working with. Um, and there's a lot of little subsets. So I mean, like, Castle Hills is its own thing, Chavanaugh is its own thing, sure, Dominion's its own thing, the extra HOA stuff, right? Um, Austin, hmm, it's gonna be— it's gonna smile about Austin.

You know, they've done a lot to make it easier, and they're really trying hard. Yeah, getting all that things into motion is, it's a completely different—

they have the right vision. Yes, the, um, the paperwork, the digital world, and the vision have not aligned yet.

Got it.

So I mean, the permitting part, you know, again, we're looking at 4 to 6 weeks in an ideal world. Again, hey Austin, you're special. Um, and then, and then the planning part, which is as fast as you'll work with us. So that might be 7 days. I mean, we're, we know what we've got. We're quick.

Yeah.

And again, we streamline it so you get to make the right decisions. Not every, you don't need to know every wall switch, but, 'cause I guarantee you I've thought it out.

Mm-hmm.

And I have.

Yeah.

But you do get to, hey, this tile, this faucet.

Sure.

And it's a look, right? So it makes it even easier.

Yeah.

It's like a package. So, you know, that the planning stage could be as quick as, let's say 6 to 8 weeks, and then construction 3, 4 months. If I'm just doing what we would call flex, a small space, it's just a backyard office, it's a home gym, I'm not running plumbing, I mean, we can build those in as quick as 3 to 4 weeks. And I don't permit most of those, so, um, it's really a quick process.

I'm just asking because the reason— yeah, it's very extremely reasonable. Even 4 to 6 months is reasonable, right? When you talk to some custom home builders, you're 18 months out. Like, yeah, and you're having to deal with leaving the backyard open or having your dogs inside, whatever the case is, right, for a very, very long period of time, right? But 4 to 6 months, that's not— that's, that's not horrible at all.

No, we don't think so.

No, not at all.

I think, you know, switching mindsets, like when you are the client, it's hard. Yeah, it's hard to have an entire home, although it's smaller than your existing home it's still an entire home. It's all the same layers of the envelope that your primary home is, is that ADU. And it's, it's hard when you have to put the dogs away, the kids away, and, you know, it having this very unfinished product in your backyard.

Yeah.

But I think it's very worth it in the end. And we really try to look at pool companies as a good model because, like, we, we really similar pricing. It's similar level of project, they also go through permitting. And so, you know, we try to understand it in that same, same feeling of like, you're gonna be really glad you got that swimming pool. You're gonna be really glad you have this space. Right.

Yeah.

You know?

Yeah. But I also feel like that amount of time is reflective of the quality of work you must be doing because absolutely in real estate, you know, a lot of these new construction neighborhoods that are building full-size homes can slap a home together in 4 months. And I mean, we know what those look like.

Mm-hmm.

And so, I mean, it's, it's, they look nice, but you don't know what's happening under there. I know what's happening under there. It is not good. And so it's like, you know, I feel like to take 3 to 6 months to do a tiny home, if I'm paying top dollar for a custom style, you know, situation, I want you to take your time. And I feel like that is taking your time, you know? And so I feel like that's great.

Yeah. Well, and the value that it adds to your property.

Yeah.

You know, I'm just saying like in general, like if you're looking for maybe an income generating part, some passive income, that's— it's a great investment to your home. Um, it adds value if you're looking to just add square— I don't— I'm not sure how it adds for square footage or living space. Yeah, it looks at, but it does.

Yes.

You know, um, I— it's just something that I know when I'm looking for a home, it's something that I was considering finding something with the ADU. So if you're looking to add value to your home, this is one way of doing it, and it's not horribly expensive.

No, it's not. And it can add as much as 30 to 35% to the value of your property. Particularly when the structure's been permitted and it does—

The right way.

Yeah, and it does add to your square footage of your home. Even our buildings that are not permitted, even though it doesn't add to the square footage of the house, it still increases the value of the property because it's such a desirable feature.

Yeah, so actually the house that Erin was living in that was 10 doors down from my house when she built her she shed, So she sold, you know, really at a great time when all the interest rates were super low. And in our very large neighborhood, her house sold highest per square foot that summer.

Yeah.

And I think it was really fast. Again, you can't account for the square footage of your she shed, but it wasn't a massive, I think, upsell. Yeah. On our street. Absolutely. In our whole community.

Yeah.

It was like a, It was a people buyer magnet. People just, people just want that little space just for themselves, right?

Yeah. Well, it's so, um, diverse of what it can be used for. Yeah, I know when people are looking for the extra space for the in-laws or a guest house or an office or a workout space, maybe I'm like, in my situation, my garage is full of tools. There's no way I can use that for anything else but that. But having that space for a, you know, in-home gym type thing That would be, it would be wonderful to have.

And you mentioned rental income. So that's like, again, we pride ourselves on thinking about the space as being very flexible. So you may be initially building and buying this for a very specific reason, but then in the long-term use of it, like maybe that adult child moves off and, you know, for whatever reasons, the need for the ADU changes. And then again, there's always that possibility of that rental income. And so this is a feature that we're adding to our website very shortly. We have several clients that rent their space out. We have one who specifically does it for travel nurses.

So cool.

And we're going to add a link so that we can share those properties that are available for rent. And then I'm also building a series of townhomes on Walter Street near the Frost Center, and we will list one as a rentable Elbow Room. And it's very much based on the Jane design. So, and it'll be very similar in the same sizing range that we sell the Janes in. So you can come and try it for yourself and see what you think about it.

Yeah, it's really cool. And we've also started this micro community section of our business. And it's the same idea for our builder, like, or for our customer as it is for, the backyard. So even if you want to build a whole bunch of little tiny homes onto one little property, it seems like, man, anybody could build a townhome, right? Like, you can do that. But what we do is we take all that stress off. So you're looking to invest into, you know, some real estate, you want to start having an income-churning property, and fairly quickly, and just come talk to us. We'll find out everything that you want and need to do. We'll work with our architects, all that stuff, and then we can completely take it from there.

Same, same kind of mindset. So we're doing one in Austin right now for a great customer. She's starting with 6 and then has several more phases. And then there's my small community on Walter Street of 4. And there's more and more and more interest in things like this. And it's something that we're also hearing from a lot of young people is they want to own something. They don't want to own something enormous.

Yeah.

It's what they can afford right now, and they'd really like to be with friends. So yeah, yeah, um, that's another one.

What would that be, right? Your first house, like you're there with your 4 best friends.

Yeah, yeah, a little 4-pack and, you know, little commune. Yeah, I mean, you must know from working moms how important that community is. Yeah, it's like something we were talking about before this is just people want to have that good feeling around them.

I think that's changed a lot of it. Like we had talked recently about the 2020 with COVID and having community and family around you. Um, I have to say I am fascinated with buying some land and putting a couple of little houses with a little community center in the middle, and we all can all hang out. Like, that's our own little town. Like, we can all kind of— it's something I've— we've thought about, my family, for quite some time, of, you know, that's something we would like to do. And having— I don't need a lot of space, but having the small space for us and then family near us, but they have their own unique space and we have our own unique space, is, is very intriguing. Like, it's something that we really have—

I've always said that to my kids. Like, hey, what if I just like buy land and then I build you a bunch of houses on it? Like, then would you stay by me?

I asked the boys the same exact thing.

Like, yeah, then will you never leave?

We have built on a couple of family compounds.

Yeah.

And they all have something different. Generally we're adding something new to what's already there. But man, I would sure love to do a whole little tiny house for a bunch of best friends. Oh, that would be so cool.

That'd be so fun.

That would be cool.

So fun.

It'd be a great way to own an investment property and be like, oh, owning your timeshare.

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

Yeah.

And also in thinking about investment properties, I think a key thing that, that keeps people from actually building is they don't want to have to take care of so much. So like the idea of a 2,500-square-foot home is so overwhelming.

Yeah, it is.

And if you like it, right, right. I try not to, but if you think about just this little tiny home, it's got everything you need to go on your trip You know, you can have your coffee maker, your mattress, you're golden. You got a nice little shower and you don't have to go in there and renovate. You don't have to do these big things to it. It's all new. It's all energy efficient. It's ready. I mean, so much of it, even we can run on Bluetooth. You can be checking your little, we have these little tiny water heaters now and this great little company, it all works off your phone and your—

That's crazy.

Mini splits can be working with your phones. You can get it cooling before you get there. Yeah, you know, it's easy.

But I think it's a great way because right now I think in our industry we're seeing a lot of people— I have lots of clients who can want to buy a home, that want to have a space of their own, and just can't afford it. So having small communities where they can afford a small home until they're ready to upgrade or whatever, have something of their own, is really important. Having that affordable housing.

Yeah, or building a small home in the front. Yeah, with a small home in the back at the same time. So you can rent one of them out and pay the mortgage for all of it together.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, with the way interest rates have gone up, people that previously could have easily bought a home have kind of been priced out in some circumstances. And so something a little smaller, a little bit more reasonable to start, something income-producing.

Right.

That's huge.

Mm-hmm.

We just went to this really large housing convention last, was it 2 weeks ago in Dallas?

Yeah.

And, and really the whole focus was on affordable housing. It was really interesting. Or Aaron and I are always trying to see how we fit in that space and fit in our community. And, you know, that one of the key takeaways from those two days was, is the idea of affordable housing is, is so much bigger than we ever thought. This is not about the working poor. This is no longer attainable. And the, the lack of attainable housing. Yeah. Is ridiculous.

It, it's through the roof.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The need is everywhere.

Yes.

I mean, in our community specifically, I feel like, you know, there have been times in the past, and Marie's been doing this for a long time and I have as well. Um, there have been times in the past where things in other parts of the country seem to be negative in, in that regard. But San Antonio always seemed to be a little, we always afford it. Like, yeah. A, a little bubble of like immunity to sort of some of the things that were going on, and it's just not the case anymore.

I, I really do think, and they talked about this at the, at the conference, that one of the greatest solutions is these little infill communities. So what Amy is building, I would consider like an infill community. There's a great big apartment building, and then there's a bunch of little row houses, and then there's a bunch of old houses, and then there's a church. So it's kind of this one little funky lot that's in the middle of all that, where now there's going to be an opportunity for 4 residences that are going to add to the livability of the city. And the great thing about San Antonio is that is everywhere. That is all throughout the city. It's in the urban areas, it's out in the suburbs. There is so much opportunity for us to—

well, like, solve the problem.

In my neighborhood, I live near the medical center, so in Oak Hills, and there's tons of just random They're very— the reason we bought our home, because I had a large lot. Yeah, there's, there's a random lot in our neighborhood that have, you know, they've been around since the '70s and no one's built on them. Like, why hasn't someone done something? Like, it just— and it has a beautiful— like, there's a hill and you can actually see downtown. Like, it's a great view and no one's really, you know, utilized those lots. I'm like, no, why?

Let's find out who else. I know.

Town or you're near downtown.

I mean, yes, you're among some other different homes, and it might— but I think I'm like, I'm just— I know in our, in our neighborhood there's just, there's homes that are, you know, when we bought was less than $300,000. You have homes that over, over a million. Like, they're so diverse. So having a lot with 4 small homes would fit right in, in my opinion, you know. And since I'm in the medical center, the reason I was thinking about having an ADU was My niece, when she was going to nursing school, um, her— she had— she lived with my sister at the time and they lived out in Spring Branch. She goes, Aunt Marie, can I just stay at your house? Because I can just— when I have class, I can just go in, you know. So we have a lot of traveling nurses and doctors that come in that need spaces that are not here for very long, but it's a good rental income opportunity to have those. And, you know, and they're good tenants, you know, they might rent for a month or whatever, but she would come in and stay And I'm like, oh, that might be, you know, traveling nurses was a big thing.

Right.

You know, coming in for a little while.

A lot of our customers have a mind— have a mindset. It's like a dualistic mindset. You're going to have to spend money to make money or spend money to save money.

Right.

So we have people that are building them specifically to rent them out or maybe to rent them out in the future. And then people that are downsizing or they're having that multi-generational thing. One thing that we've seen over and over and over again are very capable older parents that are moving onto their children's property, but they're not there to be cared for and maybe even care for the, maybe there's no children on the property. They're there to save some money so they can go do the things that they want to do.

Yeah.

I love it every single time I hear a customer say, well, we haven't been staying in it that much 'cause we're off traveling.

Yeah.

So that what they do is they get all this equity from their home and all the other things that they have going on. And then they go live the life that they've been wanting to live.

Yeah.

You know, I, I just love that for them.

That sounds great.

Yeah.

Yeah. I wanna do that.

I think we all, I think as we age, I think we realize that we can live with less. You know what I mean? Yes. It, you know, when you're younger, I think you're like, oh my gosh, I need it all. And we're like a very materialistic society here in America. Yeah. And, and it's normal, all of that. We all want the things, right? But then as we get older, it's like you start to realize what's really important to you.

Right.

And maybe those things are experiences rather than a big old house that you use, you know, one quarter of or whatever.

Yeah.

Well, you don't take it with you in the end.

Yeah.

You know, all you really get is your memories.

That's right.

And I've been through situations personally where I have lost all of my stuff.

Sure.

Like it, it, I won't go down that road, but I have, we won't say his name. I've got, I mean, What I had left fit in, you know, the back of a small U-Haul.

Yeah.

And ultimately it doesn't really matter.

Yeah.

Because, you know, you move forward and you make great memories. You do things that are cool, that build up your confidence, all that kind of stuff. Stuff doesn't really matter.

Well, also everything has become so digitized. So like now, you know, you don't need all the photo albums.

Right.

You don't need 80,000 DVDs. You know, everything is digital. And then a million products have been invented. So like sometimes we have families that are like, I don't know if I want a kitchenette or full kitchen. And I'm like, you know, think about it. Now with air fryers and InstaPots, like you don't need big old stovetop burners. You don't need a big old oven. Are you going to host Thanksgiving back here?

Yeah.

So when I was younger, before I got married, I lived, I moved all the time and I lived only in tiny spaces. 500 to 800 square feet. And it's kind of, it is my thing. I love it. I live in a 2,400 square foot home, but it feels huge to me. So all the rooms have turned into nooks, little nooks, right? So we got a gym room, we got the media room, we have my pantry. It's a dining room that's been turned into literally a pantry. Love all that. So as far as the kitchenette thing goes, I don't know if you remember this. When I lived in Houston, I lived, I had a 500-square-foot apartment. I cooked so little in it that the one time I was like, I'm gonna bake some cookies. I didn't realize that they had like a warming thing under, like I, I was using the oven partially for storage.

Yeah. Oh yeah. I did that when I was in college too.

Yeah.

You stick your pans under there or whatever.

So 9 months into living there, I hadn't turned on my oven and the whole entire apartment almost burned down.

Oh my gosh.

Oh wow.

Well, okay. I'm, I'm exaggerating, but the, the apartment did, it did catch fire. It did catch fire.

And isn't that a Sex and the City where she stores her shoes in the—

And like sweaters and stuff. Yeah.

Yeah. And the stuff.

Yeah.

But why have a full kitchen when you, when you never use it?

Yeah.

Just get a kitchenette. Put all, put your money into something else.

Well, Erin, you're also the queen of like utilizing a great service as opposed to owning it. Mm-hmm. So I mean, she also would send her laundry out.

Oh yeah.

I mean, this was Houston too. So there were like awesome services and like you were like, I mean, I could buy a washer and dryer. Like, I could— I mean, this is years of laundry service by the time I pay for the washer and dryer. I mean, it's honestly like a really great mentality because it's, you know, less ownership of things and things weighing you down and more having the time.

Yeah.

And the things that you have now, um, before people used to fix things. Now you just— you can't fix them. You have to buy new, right? So you can't reuse something a lot of times.

No.

So you're replacing them every couple of years and it's thousands of dollars.

And that takes your time.

Yeah.

Let's go pick it out. You have to get it installed.

And to that point, that's one of the things that we've really done well is we actually modeled a lot of our processes after acquiring us or going after a certain kind of customer. And that customer is Amy.

Yeah. No.

I think she's calling me a consumer.

Yeah.

Incredibly, meticulous, wants things done right. And so when we were building our flex spaces, our studio spaces, and our dwell spaces— so they're kind of in tiers, like from small to large— we were like, what elements really need to belong here?

Yeah.

So we kind of think of the, of the flex spaces as, you know, that's your backyard office. You know, maybe you want to have a bathroom in it, maybe you don't. It's your art studio, whatever. So That's really just a small, it's just a small open room, maybe with or without a bathroom. And then we've got the studios and we really had so much conversation about this. We really got into it with the architects and we're like, who would live in one of these buildings that's, you know, 300 to 400 square feet?

Mm-hmm.

Okay, well, someone who's really like low-key, low maintenance, like doesn't wanna do their laundry or if it's gonna be a rental unit. So we really built that, we designed it with that in mind. These people aren't gonna wanna wash their clothes. They're not wanting to serve Thanksgiving dinner in here.

Yeah.

That— It could even be mom and dad.

Yeah.

And again, you're in there, you have the kitchenette so that you can prepare simple, easy things. You might be warming up some dinner for them. Maybe you're making their breakfast in there or whatever. But you're not, again, we're not hosting dinner in here.

Right.

Whereas with our larger models, which are over 400 square feet up to about 1,500, I mean, it's built, it's equipped to build a whole meal. You want to have a couple of friends over, you're not going to host like a, you know, 14 or 15 people over to your house.

You could have mahjong night. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. It's not a bunko house. It's a mahjong house. Yes.

Yeah.

You know, I like that.

I just started playing.

Oh, really? Yeah.

Let you play.

No, but I've always wanted to learn how to play.

Yes.

We should do game night. There are gals and I'll, I'll connect you.

Yes.

There are gals that teach you. And I went to a party to learn it.

Really?

And then they did a follow-up game night.

Oh, how fun.

And they kept teaching us. That's kind of awesome.

Let's do it.

I want, it's something that I've literally always wanted to learn. Like my whole life.

Weirdly.

Yeah.

I just learned about, I, but I do see that this is a train catching us. So that's why I'm kind of joking. Cuz then, yeah. All, all the ladies that went to that like became super obsessed. I mean, it's good game.

Immediately after this podcast, I'm gonna like accost Amy and ask her, who are you going to that with?

Yeah.

How funny. Well, is there anything that you feel like you wanna, anything else you wanna share with our listeners, um, or touch on, you know, regarding Elbow Room?

You know, I, I think the one thing about Elbow Room is we have a lot of heart. We really truly care about our customers, the experience, and that when they, when they walk away from us, they feel like this is a purchase they would make over and over and over again.

Yeah.

Because it really serves what they need and the experience was a good one. And every decision that we make from whether it's our process or our branding or anything in between, it is how does this serve our customer? And we know who our customer is. And we think that we've really laid something out that's going to fit their needs. And so I just, I want everyone to know, like, the customer is the heart of our company. That is really who we are there to serve with these small spaces.

And I'll add on to that too, is that as we've learned our customers and gotten to know what it is that we do and we do well, we've started to offer a little bit more. And we've been really careful and thoughtful about what we want to get into as we build. And so we know that when we're in the backyard that they frequently are like, had a great experience with us and they want us to do a little bit more. And so we've thought about what would really serve that client and finish out that space for them. And so we have added landscaping packages with different looks. All of it works with Central Texas plant-wise.

And we partnered with Zen Natives to come up with those designs.

Love her.

She's awesome.

She's amazing. Go ahead.

Yes.

And we are also, we have also added cabanas, which are really, they're fantastic. And that also kind of translates into carports, we think. So we haven't done them as a carport, but that is coming soon, especially in Austin.

Very cool.

Yeah.

Very cool.

That's amazing. Well, I just want to thank you guys for being on here today. I feel like I've learned a lot about tiny homes. Being in real estate, it's so interesting to me to see the trends and like the way things are going. And so can you really quickly share with our listeners how they can reach out to you about your services?

Well, we're on elboroom.com and all the information is there. If you want to talk to someone, call 210-854-4023. You can find us on Instagram at _elbow_room_. We're not hard to find because we picked such a simple name and then we went and bought it.

Yeah.

Perfect. Well, again, thank you guys for being on.

Thank you.

This was great. Yeah.

I really appreciate you having us.

Of course.

You have such an awesome thing going on with Working Moms of San Antonio.

Oh, you're so right.

So if you're a working mom out there, like get on board, come down here, join the club. Do the co-working, do all the things. It is such a supportive community, and thank you for that.

Oh, thank you so much.

We love our members. Yeah, and it's love. I love the fact that it's a family-owned business. I really do. It makes— it just makes it so much more special.

It's San Antonio very well.

Yes.

Yeah. And then I'll thank our listeners for tuning in to this week's episode, and we will catch you next week.

See you guys next week.

Thanks so much for tuning in to this episode of the Working Moms of San Antonio podcast. We hope you loved today's chat and found a little inspiration to take with you into your week. If you have a podcast topic suggestion or a question you'd love for us to cover, definitely send us an email at hello@workingmomsofsanantonio.com. We'd love to hear from you. And until next time, see See you in the community!