Playing The Game With An Exit Strategy

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Damn, we need a clap. You want to clap, Ty?

Okay, that's cool. I'm gonna put it up here because. I know. Plug it in right here. Yeah, I know. It's in the shot.

So we are back for another episode of you, Money.

Yes, we are.

I'm. Yo, this is Ty, and we are. Where we at, Ty?

We're in Hollywood.

We in Hollywood.

Yeah, we're in Hollywood, bro. You have no clue how much I enjoy not having to hog around mics and headphones.

Yeah, right. It makes it real easy.

Yeah. I had a conversation with a young lady named Ebony about doing the show. And she was like. The way she was talking is like we was doing a podcast. I was like, nah, this like a conversation we barely have on mics. She's like, oh. I said, I'm gonna see your episode and you can see it. You can decide then if you wanna do it. She was like, I'll do it if I can bring my whole staff of black women that I'm doing. I said, yeah, that's preferred.

Bring the game.

Yeah. So you know. But yeah, we in Hollywood. BET Awards week. It's been light, though. Well, Juneteenth had it popping.

Popping for sure.

Yeah. They sent their week off.

We went out there, me, but Vanessa and Crook. And it was cool. It was beautiful, actually. Black people galore. We got out before it got dark. So I can't tell you.

You didn't realize that there meant black people in Hollywood.

I did not realize, you know? But BET weekend for you. What was your first BET weekend?

My first BET weekend? That's a great question. I can't remember, bro.

Okay.

It had to be. I know. My first BET weekend that I remember was 2018. Lemon pepper wet. Yeah, Lemon Pepper Wet had just started and we had did Lemon Pepper Wet. This is before I really got involved. PK was doing it. We did it at this spot called. I can't remember the name of the spot. Cause they didn't pay PK their money.

Okay.

You forget them. But it was one of those spots where like a speakeasy you walk in. It was A porn store. And then when you get through it, boom. It was a bar, right? Okay. And they hold about 150 people. Okay. And bet week that year, 2018, that shit was nuts. I wasn't there. I was in Miami. Cause we was working on Sunder's album that never came out, but that was when I got back. Peculiar. Like, bro, that shit was crazy. We had a lot of building, and then the niggas weren't paying the money that they had agreed to, so we ended up moving. Adults only.

That was adults only. Okay, okay.

Adults only. So, you know. But yeah, that was the BET Award I actually remember vividly. And that was five years ago, but I don't remember any other BET Awards outside of looking at it on tv, actually being in the city and so. That I don't remember.

So you also have a game night that you incorporate during these, I guess, festive periods.

Yeah, like the. The. Like, I. I went outside. I used to go. I used to be outside so much like promoting parties, throwing parties, clubs in and out. When we was in Atlanta growing up, that this year I was like, man, I want to start doing more kickbacks.

Right?

So we started doing, like, these culture kickbacks. But mine really just started as, like a game night. Cause I like to play, like, dice and pool and cards and different type of games. So I would rent out these houses. I'd be at BM and then I would invite, like 20 people max. And it'd usually be like, managers, People that really don't fuck with the shit. The same way we don't fuck with the shit.

Yeah.

And just bring them all together. But this week for BET Awards, I had found this location in the Roosevelt Hotel that's like a game. Like a game room. It's called the spare room. So we're gonna do our culture. Our culture game night there tonight. But we got about 100, 150 people on the guest list.

Very cool.

Yeah.

Now, music at times is called the game.

Yeah.

People are the music business as the game. You know, you're playing the game, you're in the game. You want to get in the game. What is the game to you, Ty?

The game is more like the politics. The politics of it, Right. You gotta figure out how to take the game and use it so that you are healthy through the experience. Some people don't come out on the other side of the game put together. Well, rather, they done went through drug abuse or they done went through alcoholism or some level of abuse or whatever the case may be. So I Feel like the game is really, really, really politically driven about who you know, where you are, where you are, how much money you might have, how much money you willing to invest, what type of risk you're willing to take. But a lot of it is about who you know and how much are you willing to allow these different individuals to participate in your business or in the interests of your journey. I think that's a very heavy thing about the politics in the game, you know what I'm saying? That you hear people talk about, you know, the tap dancing, like a lot of those different aspects of it. You gotta play the game if you want to get these different results. And it's a real thing. And it's really just about. There's always a person sitting at a position who are trying to take advantage of everything in front of them to get the best results out of what they add value wise to the position they in. Right. So if somebody been knowing somebody for 20 plus years and you bring, you know, that person they know for 20 years, they bring the artist that they working with, or the athlete they working with, or the DJ they working with to the table who's talented enough. Right. But then they got somebody else that come to the table who's extremely more talented. You can tell they're more talented, but they ain't attached to that 20 year relationship.

Yeah.

All of a sudden now the game start to be in place, so you gotta basically be like, dang, I'm not gonna get this opportunity because I'm not attached to this 20 year relationship. Versus if I were to attach myself to this 20 year relationship. I'm gonna be in the game, but I gotta, am I willing to pay what it costs?

Cause 20 years in the game, that's a lot of points you have accumulated.

Yeah, yeah. And you can't beat time. Nah, can't beat time. If somebody that's in a position, got a homeboy that his whole move is to work the set.

Yeah.

He know that my man's gonna get broken off. You talking about at the end of the day, they're gonna make the money and they're gonna leverage their relationships for the bread.

Absolutely. And do you feel like that's a fair part of the game or is that just the game?

I feel like it's the game. I think it's unfair when you are predatorial when it comes to predatory. Right. So let's say I charge 5%. No matter what I do, I charge 5%. Right. Pertaining to the music business. So I like, okay, let's say all my partners that I've been known for 10, 15 plus years, they all work at record labels, okay? And I tell a young artist like, yo, if you come fuck with me, give me 5%, I'll make sure that your deal go how it's supposed to go. And I keep my word. I make the deal go how it's supposed to go. Interest on my 5%, right? Somebody else come to me and like, yo, I want you to do what you did for him, but can I pay you 2.5%? You know, I'm like, well, I don't really know if I want to do that because, you know, my fee is my fee, right? Or whatever the case may be. And you know there's gonna be people in that situation that are extremely talented that you're not gonna do anything with just because you're not being able to get your fee for your services right? Now, if you tell a person based on who they are, and you see that they need your help the most and you charge them the most, like, well, you know, you give me 25% and I'll make it do what it need to do, right? Then I think that it's like, it's not fair then, because now you're doing it based on where I'm at on the food chain versus your fee is your fee.

And, you know, you can take advantage of me.

Yeah, that's another part of it as well. So I think that in this business, you can find your way back being predatorial, or you can find your way not being predatorial, but you can make the same amount of money whether you're predatory or not. It might take you a little longer when you're not predatory, but it might be real, more of a real thing.

And all that's based on principles, 1000%. But on the other side of it, it's the players. Right now, how you want to play the game is various per person. Not everyone's playing the game the same.

No, I was having this conversation before I got here where somebody will come to an artist and they'll want to use their song for a campaign, right? No matter what the campaign is. And the person that come to the artist wanna use the campaign, they're like, boom, I wanna use campaign. Wrap it up. A company with the whoop. And then when the artist gets the actual license agreement, like the fee and the license agreement is $0, right? I'm just like, yo, this ain't no money. They want it for free. And then we started talking about this Concept of it's a part of playing the game Right. Now, if this person would have came to me and said, yo, I want you to participate in the campaign. I really don't got no money because I'm kind of scrapped because the brand is a bigger brand, but they gave me a smaller budget because of the type of thing I got going on. But you always gonna owe. I'm gonna owe you a favor. If you do this for me, I'mma owe you a favor. And that's a part of the game. Right. But when you don't lead with that and then the artists and their team get disagreement and then zero dollars, you're like, you just want me to do it for free? Just to do it for free? Right. And I think that a lot of playing a game, whether it's fair or unfair, is really about how you speak to the people that you want to participate in this game. You're building and being and leading with them very honestly before the thing gets to where it's at. Right, Right. And that way, you know, the game can feel like, man, you know what? This actually, you know what I'm saying? I can fuck with this game because there's some games I can fuck with and there's other games I can't fuck with. Right? Right. When it comes to paying producers fairly, you know what I'm saying? I can play with that game. When it comes to paying producers or songwriters or not paying songwriters at all, I can't play with that game. It ain't gonna feel right. Mm.

Now, is there a game like a video game, a sports game, something that you find comparable to the music business?

Game of Thrones, you know, DJ Don.

Cannon told me that Game of Thrones, but you are Game of Thrones. You gonna start to see the music business play out.

Cause everybody can get. It ain't no startups. Everybody can get their head knocked off when it comes to, you know, you can have one person like, you look at different artists, and I try my best not to name no artists on these type of shows that had, like a bad demise. Cause I don't want to add on to their story, keep being told in a negative way. But you have artists that was on top in their segment of whatever it is, and it's multiple that you can. That can come to mind, and they do some dumb shit off of their heads, you know what I'm saying? It's called a counselor. You getting counseled now, you know what I'm saying? And it's a real thing. Doesn't matter how hot you is, it doesn't matter. You know, like even like, like a big, big artist brand that's a global brand, they would have to do some wild shit for it to be off of them heads. But like those middle tier, you know what I'm saying? CB them CBers.

C plus.

Boy, you been out. You better not put them. They in your damn bio Rome. Boy, they gonna get you up outta here.

I'm not even touching that.

Don't even get the pronouns wrong. But they gonna get you out of here because of the way people see how you. It's a. It's a way that when you're on top of something, rather you're a news anchor, rather you are a TV host, rather you artists or. So if you're in the public eye and you do something that's not to the public liking, you're. You're at will for crucifixion and there's nothing you can do. Because what people fail to realize is they get into these moments and these positions and they are more likely to their mistakes to be blown out of proportion. No matter how big or small the mistakes are, they're more recognized 1,000%. I remember telling my business partner before we had a disagreement about, I probably should have said something to this woman that was, you know, that we was trying to do business with. But it was. She was like disrespectful to one of my teammates. And I remember telling her, I'm like, man, I can't be getting no confrontation with no woman. I said, I'm giving away too much information. They waiting for a nigga like me to do some dumb shit before they can run me through the ringer, you know what I'm saying? Like that's a real thing.

Yeah.

You know what I'm saying?

So if you it piss a target on your back.

Yeah, my loud ass mouth, man, I can't be doing nothing, boy. I gotta be like Obamaclean. This thing that goddamn, they catch up with me. That happened pre2017.

Clean your Twitter. You don't want to get your old tweets. Find something, you know. But I do think it's something.

I stand behind my old tweets though.

Don't say that.

I run for president.

They'll start looking.

I remember every last one of my reckless tweets.

Do you really?

Yes, I do stand behind every last one of them. Cause I always said to myself, I always knew what game I was playing with Twitter and all those different types of things right so I'm just like, I ain't in real life. I'm not gonna say nothing that I ain't gonna say to somebody face in real, in person.

But how old were you when you got on Twitter?

I got on Twitter in 2000. I remember telling Tess, man, I've gotta get on this Twitter shit, man. I heard 50 Cent talking about this shit.

Oh, okay.

This is like 2000, maybe 6.

Yeah, maybe.

I was on Twitter long. I didn't get on. I didn't get on Instagram.

Wait, you was on Twitter in 2006?

Yeah, I didn't get on Instagram until 2011, the first and second year that Twitter started. I was on it.

That's early.

Yeah, I was on Twitter. I should have way more followers.

Were you worldwide Thai at that time, or did you have another name?

I can't remember. I think it was always worldwide. Ty. Okay, okay.

I got on Twitter in 2009, so I'm 18 years old. And the only reason why we got on is because Ludacris used to battle the sexist questions. And my boy was like, bro, we gotta be finding this shit out, bro. This is where you gonna get all your information from. So. But we 18, though, so no one's paying attention to us. It's us. We got five followers talking to each other. I know for sure this dumb shit was said we were dumb. We got some dumb ass kids. There's no supervision. And I think out of all my friends, I was the only one that had a Twitter account that had any kind of, like, reach at a certain point. So sometimes even the people you're around, y' all might be playing the kid game, right? You don't know who's gonna mature into the adult game version of what y' all doing, but it's still the stuff you did during it as a kid that can come back and get you as an adult.

Oh, yeah, 1,000. I mean, listen, I know none of my shit. It's just gonna come back and be like, yeah, I mean, I would have said the same thing.

I don't think I got that. Too bad. But it's just being a kid. I think that's one thing about social media now, or even coming into the industry. I just came across this kid. They said, my man put me on Portrait of Tracy is his name, from Baton Rouge. Put out an album. Really good album. But he told me he's 18 years old and that he's produced everything by himself. And I like the kid because he has, like, his following came from YouTube, because he was deconstructing Tyler the Creator songs and putting them back together. So you might have like a 80s version of earthquake, or he might take the drums off of, like, Yonkers or something like that. So I'm like, man, this kid is hard. So we was talking about, but at 18, what could keep him out of the game? You know, this was a conversation me and my boy was having, and he was just like, could be money, you know, money might cause him to try to make some songs to get on. Or maybe it's not being collaborative.

Yeah.

You know, you might be key, you know, so you might not have the proper relationships to get you there. Especially, like you say, you see the talent, someone got it. Like, okay. But again, you have to. Depending on where you wanna go, you have to play the game in some capacity.

Yeah, you gotta play the game. You gotta figure out what game that you can build that's complimentary, you know what I'm saying? I always played the community game. Like, I'm gonna invest into your community. Invest into my community, you know what I'm saying? Like, I'm gonna support you. Support me, right? And, like, you know that always gonna supersede the politics. The politics. And when you lead with that, like, yo, we're a community, you know, I got some water. You got some sand? You want to get some of my sand? I want to get some of your water. And let's just run it like that. And we can do that forever.

Yeah, we gotta be.

We don't gotta be on the same team necessarily. You know what I'm saying? We don't gotta, like, take from one another. You don't have to own me, I don't have to own you. And if there's an opportunity that comes and you feel like it's a good fit, then let's do it. But I'm building an ecosystem that I can stand on my own and add value to your community so that you're not just investing into something that don't turn around and help you drive your community or drive a value proposition. Right.

But as you. I guess as you're getting better at the game, right? As your version of the game develops and you need to bring more people in to help expand. Right. How do you go about sourcing out the people, sourcing out the players, and making sure you only associating yourself with the proper. The proper players that's playing the game the way you want to play the game.

My strategy was to just get people that wasn't from the Music business or people that was trying to get in that didn't really have no bad, I guess, taste or bad experiences just yet. There was some people that we worked with that had enough industry experience that already been tainted. You gotta change their thinking. But for the most part, I'm trying to hire people that's like fresh off the boat.

Fresh off the boat.

Fresh off the boat. Yeah, like that. You don't really know much and you're learning our way.

Gotcha.

The record label way or the traditional way is gonna be foreign to you. So that's what I've been doing.

You're instilling the culture way.

Yeah, essentially 1,000%.

Do you find it to be effective like that? Like installation?

Like 50 50. You know what I'm saying? Because even though a person might be new to the game of the business, they've been watching it their entire life, trying to. Especially if they super passionate about it. So they might just see it as, man, I gotta go work at Def Jam. I always wanted to work at Def Jam.

It's always been the gym.

That's just an example where it's like the history that you grew up watching. Sometimes we can be. When you're a fan of the game.

Yeah.

You not gonna feel fulfilled until you play the game. Yeah.

Until you get the game.

And then the game gonna tell you if you really like it when you're playing it.

Cause the scary part is it's kinda like Twitch now, right? You can watch someone else play the game. You do not have to buy the game. You don't gotta have PlayStation to watch someone play. Played the PS5.

Nope.

But if you want a PS5, let's say you finally get one. You finally buy the game. And there's nothing like you thought it was gonna be. Nothing like the guy on Twitch playing it.

This is.

Maybe it's more difficult, you know what I'm saying? Maybe some shit don't work the way you thought it was gonna work, but it don't look the way it did on Twitch. I find that. That to be. There's a reality check point I think in this business that everyone undergoes. You feel like you had a reality check 1000%. Yeah.

My reality check was I witnessed in real time that you can grow your business faster if you got the right people that is invested into your business. Right.

And.

I was just hell bent on like, man, that like, this shit's good, marketing is good, we're gonna pay our money, whatever the case may be. And you still get opportunities, right? But boy, that would not look like how it looks when you have, like, the right strategic partner. And we're not talking about a strategic partner that's taking 50, 50, 30, 40% of what you're doing. You just talking about a strategic partner that you might be doing 80, 20 with, right? But you don't built up your shit to the point where it adds value to their community. So it's in their best interest to take their 20% and really, really, really, really show you that you should stay in their community. You know what I'm saying? You know, just the reality of how people treat you when you tell them no. Right? I used to have this conversation with a few of my clients. Like, man, we was coming up and we wanted to work with this artist or feature on this artist, and we. We'll get told no. We'll just be like, dang, just keep working. But now we in a position and it's multiple talents, multiple clients. When they like, nah, I don't really wanna do that. And then I deliver that information to the manager or whatever, and it's like they got an attitude. I'm like, damn, I never was like that when I was told no. It just made me work hard, like, well, shit, I guess we ain't hot enough. You know what I'm saying? Just keep working. I guess we ain't got enough money to afford you and just keep working. But I never was like, man, fuck that nigga, man. You know, he don't want to work with me. Like, I didn't never take it so personally.

Right?

You know what I'm saying?

But people do take no's personally.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, I guess people investing their life into this shit, you know what I'm saying? So if you tell them no, they feel like you telling them no.

Yeah, right. You telling them, the physical person. You shutting me down.

Your dreams ain't gonna never come true, nigga. Get the fuck out of my face. That's how they feel.

The rejection.

Yeah, yeah, the rejection be real.

But that's not. That's not how you play the game. You're not saying no to a person.

No, no, no. It's just the opportunity. Yeah, I was just saying no to the opportunity. And sometimes you just saying you. You might say no to opportunity, then turn back around and have to be like, yes, I fucked up. Yes, yes, I changed my mind.

That's funny as hell, though, because it's true. Like, I don't know. I. I don't know how often I didn't Turn around like, hey, my bad. I changed my mind because I tried.

Nah, I ain't never did that. But I know I've known of people just from my experience.

But I think it's necessary to know you should leave yourself open to do that.

1,000%, bro. I bullshit you not. I remember when I was working with Forte Bowie and Forte was like, he wanted to be Michael Jackson, right? He wanted to be Michael Jackson Big. So in my mind, when an artist tell me they want to be Michael Jackson Big, I'm thinking about, I'm following the Michael Jackson data. Cause it's a Michael Jackson like history that you can follow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now at that time, I didn't know what I know now. And I would say a completely different thing to an artist if they yell like that now. But at that time I was like, okay, Taniko just wanna make the big. He want to make the biggest shit.

He wanna make Thriller.

So I remember this nigga sent me like Future had a record called Bitching. I'll Never be the same. I can't remember how it goes. It's like, I can't remember how that shit go. But it was Future early.

Yeah, it sounded like mixtape future.

It was super early. Uh huh. And I was like, man, why the fuck you wanna do this shit? In my mind I'm like, this ain't no Michael Jackson shit, right? And I remember like, that's crazy. I wouldn't clown in Future. Cause I didn't really know it, right? I was just like, man, what the fuck is this, man? I thought we was talking about in my mind, Billie Jean. I thought we were talking about fucking Michael Jackson. Why you doing this shit, right? Yeah. And then Future blew the fuck up. Future ain't Michael Jackson. You know what I'm saying? For hood nigga, Future, Michael Jackson.

Future is the hood, nigga. Michael Jackson.

For hood nigga, Future is Michael Jackson.

March madness is three.

But I, yeah, 1,000%. Hey. Motherfucking goddamn west side. On the west side, that is goddamn Thriller. But I remember saying, I don't know if I was talking to Freeze or whatever. I was like, man, I was wrong. I had to come back and like, you know what I'm saying? Be like, damn, why this future shit hot? Like, But I, but, but to this day I know Forte be like, nah nigga, you gotta eat that. I remember you told me that shit wasn't hot.

But I hear you. Cause if you say you wanna be Michael Jackson and you look at Michael Jackson, there's textures, there's Tones, there's feelings, there's certain vibes. So I might be thinking you about to go pop or you trying to go bruh.

I'm not Silver glove. West side goddamn Trap. Trap.

Dirty Trapped too.

That shit was so dirty and unmixed.

So you bring this back to me, I might look at you a little crazy.

Yeah, I was looking at him crazy. More so. I didn't even know future, like, storyline at that point. You know what I'm saying? I'm like, what the fuck is this, man?

How we going?

Michael Jackson? I'm trying to go Michael Jackson, too.

N. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That sound good to me.

If a tell me he want to be Michael Jackson today, I'm a laugh at him, though.

Really?

Ain't gonna be another Michael Jackson.

Why you say that?

Well, unless that motherfucker been performing since he was 5, spinning in a circle with his brothers. Is it Jackson 5 attached to that Michael Jackson? Is it a motherfucker? You know what I'm saying? Them niggas was playing Vegas when he was goddamn, you know? You know what I mean?

That's a good point. You try to come out the gate, say you gonna turn Michael Jackson at 25.

Yeah. Chris Brown, maybe. Chris Brown when he started, when he was 15.

Yeah.

Yeah. Okay, if you. You more likely be a Chris Brown or a Weeknd. But you know what?

I give Drake credit because he did Degrassi, and that's entertainment.

He definitely did Degrassi, right?

You doing TV early, so you have a relationship with entertaining people early that I think translates if you're gonna do music or something like that.

He was famous.

Yeah, he was famous.

Literally famous in northern fucking calendar. Yeah.

Odd kind of famous, though. Cause it wasn't like he was the biggest character on the show. He wasn't like the main. Main character. And he got shot.

That nigga no famous than goddamn Carlton. N. He was basically Carlton.

But if Carlton would have pivoted and made God's plan, then, you know, he would have been bigger than Will.

I mean, it took Drake a long time before. Before he got a God's plan, but that's a.

Crack it up.

Yeah. I'm just saying, like. But that's that, like, he wasn't the super. He wasn't a star star. You know what I'm saying? But he played enough of the role to be famous.

It's kind of funny because it's reverse Will Smith who did music and then got the TV show because how they saw the music video. So, you know, it's interesting you gotta do something entertaining, though. You have to entertain people.

Yeah.

Do you feel like to play the game and be an introvert? Can you still make it to, like, a superstar level?

You better have an extroverted team, you know what I'm saying? Because you can have. You can be an introvert and you can build a brand around that. You know what I mean? Because there's a lot of introverts. There's a lot of introverts that'll come to the show because you're an introvert. Right. And they a fan that you was able to be that goddamn brave. And they fucking.

They want that bravery.

They love you. Like, I could never do that.

That's hard.

But you gotta be able to build a brain around this shit, though. You know what I'm saying?

So in accordance to game night, you want to bring a guest up, right? Yeah, but we don't know who this guest will be.

We don't know who this is either. Cracker Jack. This is a crackerjack box.

So currently, how many, like, RSVPs do you have for game night?

Game night, we got about 134 RSVP. We approved, like, 101.

So there's 101 people likely to come to the Roosevelt Hotel tonight.

Yep.

And one will join us on fuck you, money.

Yep.

I don't know how Ty's gonna pick this person.

Me either.

But whoever.

I'm a probably better nigga. Like, hey, whoever can't beat whoever beat me in Final Connect four. Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

Yeah.

You get to come on the show. Come on the show, man.

I don't know who this gonna be.

You know what I'm saying?

Stay tuned for the second part.

Random as hell. Yeah, boy, I spanked that nigga on that motherfucking connect phone.

Whoever the best at games get to come talk about games on. Fuck you, money. I like this concept because you never know who's gonna surprise you in the game. You just never know.

I'm gonna start playing golf. I'm gonna be five, too. I'm about to talk crazy.

You went to a golf event recently, right?

Yeah, I went to the pga. The US Open. How was that long? Yo, that shit be so crazy because you hear a crowd go crazy. You think somebody dunked? Is it? Cause n got a hole in one, you think somebody scored a touchdown? That's dumb. You got going crazy, like, what the fuck? But yeah, that shit. That. That shit be fly, though.

Yeah.

I learned exactly how to play golf going to one golf tournament. Okay.

How long was it though? How long? When did you get there?

When did you leave? Four days. How long? It was the 14th, 15th, 16th, 17th at five days. So the 14th was kind of like a. A hosting intro day. And then the other four days they was actually playing until they got into like the rounds. I went on the 15th, the 17th. I just went on the 15th and the 17th. I ain't going the 14th and the 16th. I was supposed to go on the 18th, but I tapped out. You tapped out on the 15th? I was there the whole day. That was my office for the day. I was on that motherfucking suite, drinking, goddamn. Taking zoom calls with wifi. I was in that beer for like nine hours.

But it sound like a festival.

Yeah, that shit. It was a lot of walking. That's why I started at one. That one area that I paid for and just ate for. I ate breakfast, lunch and dinner at that motherfucker.

So of all the sporting events you've gone to so far this year, what has been like the highlight for you?

I would probably say, I don't know, it's a mix up between Final Four for the college and Formula one. PG was cool. So the US Open was very interesting because they had at the Beverly Hills Theater, I mean, the Beverly Hills Country Club for the first time since 75 years. And the Beverly Hills Country Country Club is hundreds of acres. It's the. It's the most expensive piece of property estate in the state of California. Is worth billions of dollars. Like, billions. Like 10, 20, 30 billions. It's like almost, I think like 200 acres or something like that.

Jesus.

Yeah. In fucking Beverly Hills, right? But yeah, so. But it was interesting. The Final Four contingent. Final Four and Formula One. Interesting. Different games.

All right, I'm not gonna hold you much longer. Cause we got a guest coming. But.

Yeah, well, we gonna figure it out. We gonna take one, take two.

I just can't believe. Yeah, you might end up with two.

Yeah, my animals. No, no.

Ain't no rules of this.

Yeah, we'll see.

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Appreciate.

We got new cameras for you, money. No, it's the Sony. Have we rescheduled that ZV1, though we are available when you are. Wait, but hold on. Let's just get this straight. Y' all didn't know you were gonna have what guest was gonna.

We had no idea who was gonna be.

That was a part of it. That was part of the show.

So you said you were gonna go fish a guest.

We was gonna grab some.

So you pulled me off the whole stroll?

Not the whole stroll.

Yes, you did.

That was a very sophistication.

You didn't know. You just came and got me and pulled me up to your room. Yo, that's disrespectful. You gotta pay for something a little bit. My food kind of the game is. This isn't the thing playing the game.

Welcome back to welcome back to you Money.

Welcome back to you Money.

All right, so as we told you all in the first half, fuck you, Money. That who's going to go to game night and who's going to find a sophisticated guest? We found a sophisticated guest.

That's a really nice way of saying it's going to pick a hoe up off the street. So it used them for their.

For their advantage. Can you, can you just introduce yourself? Sophisticated games.

I don't want to do that but I do it. My name is Malcolm Mays and I am here because apparently they just put.

Their hand in the hat and just picked out a name.

You were doing so great a game night. We thought you could talk about playing games.

I didn't play nothing in the game, Joe. See that's that pimp.

I didn't listen.

I don't know.

I'm being ho.

No, I seen you playing the game.

No.

Okay. You had something in your hand and went dominoes. I seen it. A baker was like the hood version of Django.

That's crazy.

Yeah. You don't know what time is it is playing game times.

Yes sir.

So the thought process of like you money and you've been following the show. You read the book and like we. It was game night tonight. So we started talking about playing a game.

Cultures game night. Brandon.

Yeah, definitely culture's game night. And a lot of artists have a hard time playing a game. A lot of business entrepreneurs have a hard time playing the game. So we wanted to spend you know a really hot 30, 45 minutes talking about for your from your perspective when it comes to playing a game how does that relate to your journey to.

You money exit strategy 1000% the goal of playing the game is to exit the game. The goal of playing the game is to leave the game is to divorce yourself from even in investments. As we talk about all the time and yo I'm sure you talk about with him often is your what is your exit strategy? And your exit strategy is from whatever the prescribed pre given construct is that you are not fulfilling aligned with fulfill and what I think people because our people specifically have found ourselves placed into games that we never decided to play in the first place. We present the game. We hate the game. The game wasn't made for you. But unfortunately unless you plan on anarchy and by the way every country that has been with people like us that have overturned the table to the game still end up slaves to a game to a game because the game is commerce, the game is economics, the game is marketplace that will always exist. Now what will be valued in that marketplace we can argue about. We can, we can. Whether it's socialism, communism, capitalism. Everybody wants to argue about isms but the reality is all of it is who you want to be your master. Who's gonna be the game master. Socialism, the game master is community. Each each other. Communism is the game. Master is the government.

Right.

Which should represent us, but let's be honest. And then there's capitalism, which the market is now your master, which you got to pick one.

I prefer that now.

Right.

It seems a little more fair. But. But I would say this, everybody, you still supposed to be platting your plotting your escape from Massimo from master. That's the goal. So for me, playing the game is about exiting the game and having a very good strategy on how to get out.

You know, thinking about it from a standpoint of, you know, the exit strategy, it makes it. I. I feel like it's more palatable to play the game when you go into it knowing, you know what? I have an exit strategy.

There's a final level, correct.

And for. Often for people, there isn't one because. Or it feels like there isn't one because they don't have a plan. And by the way, some people have a plan in a way. This life is set up you so far back behind a monopoly board, you know what I'm saying? So I don't even want to pretend like everybody has a shot at exiting the game. That's the coldest reality that nobody wants to. But for those of us who are lucky enough to be blessed with the keys to how to get to the next levels. Which is what? Information. Right? Those of us blessed with information. And then there's another level of us who are blessed with not only information, but application. Some of us ain't blessed with that. Some of us got to partner with people, collaborate with people who have application versus us. Hence why I'm using this to make.

My music go okay. I don't.

I'm not an applier in that. Now if you want to come apply some at Fail tv, I got you want to come apply some in finance, Real estate, investment trust. He has a little bit of information. We can put both of our information and now we both up. Same thing with you. There's journalism that I need to understand. Words, people, relationships. Pulling people randomly out of parties to use their resources and not pay.

Sophisticated, sophisticated, sophisticated.

So yeah, so sometimes you gotta, you know, you gotta. You gotta be gracious and understanding of your own blessings and latitude and leverage. Even when it's not financial, which is my mama's gifts, my mom's information, my collaboration with you, these fine people behind his camera, people who support you that is resource that all can help you get about this game.

Yeah, I think that I was on. I was talking to this baseball player who had recently forcefully retired. Not saying that he you know decided to retire. I think he had paid like 11 years. And I was talking to him and I said what's the plan now? He said I'm trying to figure it out. I said you was too afraid to realize that the game is going to end.

Yes sir.

You know we were playing and he looked at me he was like yeah. I said this what happened to us athletes we don't want it to end so we just avoid the ending. Right. And now you're something that you could have been planning 11 years ago. You starting fresh trying to figure it out now because you was too afraid to look past the ending like to look like this is gonna end.

Aren't we all victims of that?

I think athletes have that problem because.

They'Re in love with the game.

Because that's just all they know.

They're in love with the game. And love blinds you bro. Like not that love is a great thing but it can blind you. If you're in love with something you often are not trying to love look to forecast where it will fail. That's why people don't sign prenups. They make best business decisions get with people that probably are not developed to their equally yolked. It's because you're in love.

That's why. That's why I do well in the music.

Jesus Christ. I know he don't but it just makes me sad every time cuz the game love him.

But what I do love I love the the the results of helping creative people find independence through an industry that's historically been predatory of people that make music. It don't matter if you're white, black like you got everybody everybody got everybody.

Got screwed the doors everybody.

So my passion through this business is seeing people that love it being able to truly see it change their lives.

So for me I have a healthy relationship with it.

15 healthy.

So it's easy for me to have a healthy relationship with it because I don't love it. Right. So I can see it for what it is.

Cuz it's not clouded.

Cuz it's not cloud vision.

Right.

Versus like sports. I love sports.

God damn.

I can easily be like suede or taken advantage of.

It's music.

You're not taking advantage like it counsel everything. You don't want to counsel this. I do.

I don't give a.

And it makes People be like, wait a minute. Then they just give you whatever you want.

Correct.

Because I literally have no real interest in like for music. That has literally been my like trajectory on you money.

Ladies and gentlemen, this is one of the most successful managers in music.

If you don't give a about it, it seems that people want to support you by giving you what you want because they just don't want you to exit out of the. Instead of me playing certain games with music since I don't love it. Yeah, I just like, why quit?

You know what?

This sounds like the advice that my big homies gave me about women when.

I was a child. And it's sad because it's toxic as.

But unfortunately it works when you playing games. It don't work when you trying to fall in love.

This is cold. I hate you so. No, no, no. So this is the perspective, right? The perspective is, is I used to play football with this named Zo, right. Zo was extremely talented.

Right.

He never tied up his shoes. He literally played football. He never tied up his shoes in the game, in practice, he never tied his shoes. And he caught the ball with his tippy tippy fingers like this. He caught all the balls with the.

Tip of his spider n got.

He just literally spider naked got. But like he would get so, so many opportunities. But he's just like. It's just like he didn't give a.

He just didn't care.

He just was good at that and it just would.

It would opportunities just come to them.

Right?

And so it's this sweet spot with the universe that if you give a enough and you give. You don't give a enough opportunity just finds you. Right. But you got somebody who's like, like in love with the and the just be.

Just be like is this podcast about money in my love life cuz you know what I'm about pitch. But isn't it true I don't like.

The most that you want to attract.

Run for you want to say it again.

The things you want the most like the thing you desire the most is what the hardest to grasp.

Okay, let's talk Bible. Even though that doesn't mean it's not a document that everybody agrees on thou who covets.

Right.

Right. You destroy. Because when you idolize.

Right.

Come on. Yes.

All right. So even if you don't view the Bible as your spiritual manuscript, you can look it as a book of good advice. So it's funny enough Bible strike again when you over covet something beyond. Yeah. With a K in your hand.

You gotta have a healthy manifestation process.

Process.

You know what I'm saying? Like, for me, I've always looked at.

Right.

So this is how I view money, right. I, I grew up seeing money being made in illegal ways, right. So I thought that it was like a normal thing to make money. Right. Then when I like came out of high school and realized it was hard.

As f. They just made real saucy.

That's how this work. Right? Right. Then I, I got put on this journey by this guy named Courtney that literally showed me that money wasn't real. Right. The moment I learned that money wasn't real, I started to really. And at the same time I was learning about the secret and manifestation. So it ends up happening the. The universe like this. If you want to make money, you go and work. It doesn't matter if you're working at McDonald's. Correct. If you want to make money, you put money energy in the atmosphere. Most people that don't want to work, they don't realize that they're, they're attracting, not working into their, into their environment. Right. So even if you go get a job, you know, you don't met a. That started somewhere.

Yes, sir.

At McDonald's or Trader Joe's and they just work their way up. And it seemed like these opportunities kept coming to them. Right? And it seems the same thing. Like if you want something, you speak towards that thing, right? You give it like you speak towards that thing. If you, if you don't want something, you speak negativity towards it. But everybody. So when you're complaining, the universe is complaining back at you, bringing it to you. It's, it's a, it's a feedback. Yeah. Like literally if you complain, but if you're speaking love, the, like the universe brings it back, bring loves back to you.

Right?

So when you're thinking about the negativity that you're saying, rather if it's just like, man, damn, I ain't never, I'll never get no parking space. The universe is going to say, your wish is my. You're never going to get a parking space. Right? And it's one of those things where you got to really understand that once again, for the Bible, the tongue is also the sword that can protect you or that can kill you. You know what I'm saying? So it's like these different aspects of it. So when we start talking about, about playing the game, we got to really sit down and be like, okay, yeah, first of all, I gotta, I gotta play the game myself before I walk.

Out of this house because where do you, how do you know where you're going to land and what is going to be enough? And I think that when you so part key part of my strategy, not to anybody. Thank you for asking, yo. Yes, sir. The key part of my essay strategy too. I know you did. I know we talked. Now yo, I'd actually be curious to hear yours after I said mine because I, I, I think that you get to learn a lot lot about a person when you ask them not only what do they want, but how do they plan about getting it. You get to learn about process and you get to learn about desire. And for me, instinctually I went, what.

Do I want the most in life?

What is my desire at? I want my grandma to be good. I wanted my grandma to be good. I want my mother to be good. Stable financially, mentally, physically and health wise. I wanted for my future seed to be provided for whether I was here or not. I wanted to who I wanted to be prepared to if I have love in my life, to be able to sustain a relationship and mechanics because, you.

Know, divorce is usually problems with money.

And I wanted to be able to live and create freely without being having a master. I've done about three of those things, right? Mom and grandma's good. But the direction that I always had, it was never, damn, I need to make a bunch of money because I want to have a bunch of money. I don't need a bunch of fun tickets to validate my human. It was I want the life of comfort and peace that I never had as growing up because of the lack of right. So that was a true North Star. That was a very strong why the process for me was okay, what are the mechanics? I didn't have the language to express. I knew that my desires were there, but I didn't have the language to express how to go along that journey. Going upon finding out information, being around educated people such as ourselves, I decided, oh, so you mean to tell me. Because I used to think when you don't have the information, you're like, I gotta go get rich and famous in order to buy my mama a house, right? No one tells you, well, nigga, where do you want your house to be? Because houses cost different, different places. Okay, how much money do you need to sustain that house? How much money will you need to work and make every year? Will you be able to work? What happens if you can't work? Right? We just think, I'm gonna hit this number and then everything is solved. Money Has a velocity, money has a propensity of movement. So you have to be able to go, what do I want? What is the price tag wanting? What will that price tag be 18 years from now, 30 years from now? Post loan, post interest, post labor, post exit? What is my body built for? What can I take physically? Because if I can't sustain the labor that it takes to build that, I need to have some kind of money making money on itself. How can I make that much money? Where will that interest benefit me? And then it becomes a very dense process. But there are plans for this. And it became very apparent to me and very easy for me to understand. Oh, 2.5 to $3.5 million in the next five to 10 years in a portfolio that generates an interest of 10%, will provide the lifestyle post taxes, and also be able to take a little bit of it to reinvest in that principle to keep growing where we can all live.

Cool.

Can go to great school. My mama don't have to worry about if I have a woman. She don't have to worry about if we live. And we'll live a middle class, upper middle class lifestyle, upper middle care, and that is fine. Anything more than that, blessings on blessings on blessings. So that to me was very specific. Right? I know where I wanted to live now if now it changes. If I want to live in Mississippi, I'm already that. I'm already. I don't even need to eat about. I'm already that. I don't even gotta do this with y'. All. Y' all can see me late ranch and everything.

You got money if you're in the city.

I've been had money. You know, I'm borderline here, so. But the reality is, where's my unit when I have a child? Where is the support system gonna be for the family?

Right?

Where is my people at?

Very important.

We're all here. Community is important. So those are the things that I think, think people neglect when they just go, I don't want to work this stupid ass job no more. I want to be a dreamer and work on my dream. That's great.

Earn it.

Yeah.

What is your exit strategy from your labor? It's very important, you know, So I would be curious to know what is yours?

I got a question for you first.

Okay.

Can you tell us when you first entered the game?

I think when I was born, because I entered this game with my family. We're behind the board. This is not. This is. This is Monopoly like we came in with, you know, no Reparations, five years of extreme blah, blah, blah. My granddad, he had worked five jobs in Louisiana, had 16 children. All right, my excuse, my great grandfather had 16 children. My grandmother was the second to youngest of all those kids and she migrated to Los Angeles. Now when she came here, she used to have a husband, worked in the Air force. Boom, boom, boom. He chewed in on her and beat on her a little bit. And then she's like, hit me again, I'm stab you. So then she went on her own and she found a way to make a way, right? She was in, she was in downtown building Eisenhower jackets. She worked three jobs for the school system. She still has a pension for that to this day. She got her first. She was the first person in our family to get a degree. It was an aa, but it was a degree. So she made those first steps towards us where we started behind in the game. She's like, okay, well we're gonna be.

A little bit fun.

And my mama came in, she went, she was stupid. She was like, all right, I'm going to school, usc, I'm gonna get a management degree. But then she married the wrong. I love my father, but the reason I say the wrong is not because of her heart. She married the right for her heart, the wrong for her circumstance. Because he couldn't move her further in the game. He had potential to, almost did, but because he didn't understand his own self help and wellness. If he had a class with y', all, he would have known this business, although it makes me money, is going to destroy me too early. So I won't ever see the real benefits of it. He got destroyed by it. Went back to the hood, right? Had progress, went back to the hood. So my mother actually didn't have a bad discernment. It's just things didn't work out. So we moved a little forward, but not nowhere near for it as we needed to. And I came along and I said, all right, this now we rich, right? And that was because of all their hard work and their lessons and their investments and their long term investment source stage. So when you actually ask me, when did you enter the game before, when my mama and my daddy made love and they decided not to abort, I was here. It was. We were already in the game. Generations of poverty, generations of trauma. Gener you in the game. And people, some people are built to be able to sustain how far back they can to get us where we need. Some people aren't. And so yeah, I started the game moment I was Thought honestly, and. And it's just been a rough game, but should. A little better, you know, I mean, it sound better. It sound a little better.

It's a little better. Definitely way better.

It's a little better.

Definitely way better.

Still try, you know, we try to do a little something, but I'm still not. You know, there's still things, like, you know, there's still things. Oh, of course.

Of course. You haven't hit that subscrib yet. So it's still three things.

I'm still in this.

I'm here talking to y' all like.

God damn it, come on, you party. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, but you with the right people.

It was business. Yeah.

But I think for me, I think my exit strategy has been in development since I decided to kind of pivot out of what I was doing, which was journalism, and do things that was out of the ordinary for me. So we started a film company called Rap Portraits. Right. So we started doing documentaries. We have very specific kind of theme as far as. Wanted to document rappers a day in your life, but on a significant day. Right. So it had to be an important day in your life. So when we started doing those, it was my first time working with film and building, like, a film company. Now, my partner, he had a relationship with film because his dad had a studio in New Orleans, a sound studio.

He's further along in the game.

Exactly. Well, in that game. But I had relationships, so we paired ourselves together. I knew all the rappers. He would. Knew everything about film development. And we had a specific style you can score, so we had a sound. So things were developing for us because we paired what we did together well. So now it's about taking that to the next level.

Okay.

But it's still. I think I'm still learning that game. But I left the game. I knew more journalism got way better at five. That's how I met him. I met him in that game.

That's how I met you. I met your work first.

So. But changing from that game, I didn't understand changing the game. I understand playing the game because I. I always thought I was selling Crypt this. I did not look up how much journalists made. I said, if you're the best at this, you gonna make the most. That's what I wanted to do. I learned that the relationships I had was priceless. The money I made was trash. Relationships. Yeah, man. I met so many people that I would have never met any other way in my entire life. So then turning those relationships into film Yeah. I was like, okay, I'm on to something.

Okay, okay.

But it's still learning a different game for me. But once I have a. I gotta go to New York tomorrow for a meeting about this game I'm playing now that I feel like took two and a half years to get there. And I think that meeting is going to help us elevate to the point where I can start to see an exit for myself.

Oh, amen. All right.

But it's still in development. I feel like I learned a lot from Ty, but I also learned that how long it took writing the Culture Playbook. When he told me about working at Delta, I didn't know any other person that managed an artist that worked a job.

That's crazy.

I did not know anyone else that did that. So then he. I remember talking to Ty one new year. I don't know if you remember this, but we were talking, and I think it was. Might have been like, you worked at Delta seven years. Seven years. Ty didn't quit Delta until what, 2020?

May, 2020.

2018.

2018. Right. But me, I remember. I think I talked to you that year, New Year's Eve, and Ty was like, bro, we not even on year five yet.

Sir Crew had already came out.

Yes. He was still working on.

You already had a gold album.

No, I started working at Delta May 2011, and I said, I'm gonna start working at Delta when it harms me for making money.

This difference, that man built different.

So you see someone have that level of patience.

Yeah, that's correct.

To learn the game before leaving a game. I appreciated that about his story.

Yeah.

It let me know that you can wait and learn and develop, and then you can leave one game because you're. You're ready for the next game. So I didn't have that in mind. When I left the game I was playing, I knew I had a partner that understood his game far better than I did. And he trusted that my relationship that I built was gonna help us further along in ways that he didn't have. So I do believe in building a community with people who know games that you might not be playing, but you can still bring the traits and the development that you have in games you play so you can exchange and make a better game. So it's just working toward a better game.

For me, that's okay. That's dope. You like, I'm going change it. That's different.

I don't say change it now.

You said change the game to be. Change the game to Be. I know. Trying to change the game. But you said it. He said it. I ain't.

But not. I just knew we were playing a different game.

Correct. And I.

And I hope that by the time we do get where we going, that some things have been changed. I did. The culture playbook is a game changer.

That's a fact.

I think it's a game changer. And not only that, I think it's a game changer. I think high transparency is so rare in a business that tried to kind of keep some keys.

No, man. That first article, that's why I sought him out. I knew he was a game changer. I knew he had keys. I knew. Chris will tell you. Chris. Chris, my initial manager, and I, we first started by how we gonna crack this game, this music. You want to do this. How can you make this sustainable? How can we make this a thing and generate more than just creativity, but also sustainability? And we started looking at examples of enterprises and structures that were built. And I came upon that D.J. booth article that you deal with this man. And this thing was just snitching on the industry. Just snitching.

Let me tell you what's so special about that art. Me inside. Get on top of the call. Never met this man before in my life. Never talked before in our lives. We get on a phone call. There's maybe 10 minutes of that audio that was not published as a transcript. I don't know if I asked one or two questions.

He just start talking.

He just start talking. And I'm just. I'm taking it all in. And I know you know this in this industry, but there's times when people talking about Abraham. This is off the record. This is off the record. Record. Don't share this. Everything he said sounded like it should have been off the record. I'm waiting for him to finish thinking, like, all right, now we can get started with the stuff. I can publish. He was like, are you good? I was like, wait, I have. Am I good?

Are you good? Print that. Are you good?

No, I did. I called my editor, said, hey, just talk to Ty. We got to publish the whole thing. The whole thing. He said the whole thing. I said the whole thing. So I sent it over to him. He was like, we got post. He said, this whole thing got to go. I don't know if Ty told you.

But he did not know in my.

Mind, Ty didn't all record it.

I was like, ain't no way he got out of here. He gonna get all that. He remember this I'm like, he going.

To remember all that. That thing dropped. I read every word three times.

Hold on. So this is my favorite part of the story. Ty is in a meeting when the story drop. He, he didn't know it was coming out that day. He checked his Twitter, he got so many mentions. He think Brit in trouble.

Said some dumb shit. I got counseled, now fuck up all money. So I didn't even read. So I didn't even read the shit until like I got through the. A little bit through the day and I read it and I opened it and it was like Brett Faz manager unveiled the darts.

All the.

Oh shit.

Pulls back.

Definitely, definitely look at this. To the end of the into that.

He'S dugging the smoke.

But it was such a transparent story. I've never heard no one talk like that about music and business before. So I knew when it came out I just knew it was hot, cuz Twitter was hot. I just.

Yeah, you knew.

But as I. I've grown and learned. So many people read the article I did multiple times.

That's why I'm here.

I wouldn't be be here. I wouldn't even be doing music right.

Now if it wasn't.

Because I read that. Cuz when I read it I went oh, these is lying. This telling the truth. Where this at? And and then my manager, so cold, I called Chris, I said hey, you know this? He's like, I know him. I said, cuz Cordage knows everybody random. And then of course, you know, shout out to Jay Electronica and his manager supreme, he was like, yeah, that shit was purely divinely manifested. Speaking up. You know, I'm not necessarily the biggest believer of manifestation, but I do though, because the way that I came upon him, me and Chris could not find him online. As you know, as a fellow non Internet, he had no social media. So one of the biggest R and B artists alive, probably of all time, especially by Profit and Delta. His manager, the architect of this situation, was nowhere to be found. And I'm like, you mean the that made this? Because when I found out Brent was independent, I went nuts. Then when I read your article, I went even more nuts and I went, I gotta find. Couldn't find you anywhere. And I told Chris, we gotta find him. Like I know him, can't find him. That's great, right? And then I'm talking to supreme because. Shout out to supreme because he didn't know at the time that had corners as a manager. He was just interested in me musically, Def Jam and been Calling multi B.

Calling.

Something in my spirit said, don't sign with these majors. Something told me. And because I was like, something, I got the money, I can flow my own off of it. And. And. And I'm risky enough and stupid enough to do it, but I'm not dumb enough to do it with no plan, with no exit strategy. All right, all right. Come on about y' all.

Change.

And then Supreme. Well, don't start playing the game once you got one. And then supreme told me, he's like, I'm talking about, what do you want? I'm like, man, I really. I want freedom. I want creative freedom. I want financial freedom. I want to be able to do my. Not have nobody tell me nothing. It's really not even about all these percentages and back end and masters. I don't give a. I just don't want nobody telling me what I can can't say about my job.

Absolutely.

I'm not that kind of artist. And. And he's like, well, what are the examples? I said, well, you know, did you know this Ben F. Was in a pity? He's like, yeah, I know you do? He's like, yeah. I was like, so you heard about this guy Ty who set up all his businesses? And he's like, yeah, that's my guy. I'm like, what do you mean that's your guy? He's like, hey, look, I'm gonna connect you with him. He calls Ty. Ty is in New Orleans. We're supreme and Jay lit. Which. When's the last time you had been in New Orleans?

Yeah, I hadn't been to New Orleans. I thought. I thought the supreme had like, I see you rock next to niggas. Got this damn fast or something up in New Orleans. You just randomly called my phone.

That's crazy.

Gotta check in. Yeah. I'm like, I don't know what y' all got going on in the right nation, man.

And then he was like, no, no, no. I just want to connect you with my boy. We connected. And that just came from once again speaking. Speaking life into us here and manifesting how conceded to the universe. And now here we are now. Now, you know, now if that works. I pray to God that our union between Cornish, myself, you, Jane, Vanessa, the whole team Courtney, Team Yu, yo. And that it breeds the kind of results that we want. Because it's just a beautiful story. It would be a beautiful story because it came from just speaking out what I desired from the universe.

One of the things that is very powerful when it comes to Birthing artistry is with every. That's touching the art rather than the creative, or rather they're the janitor or the assistant or the engineer is speaking in the same direction. You know what I'm saying? It's speaking in the same direction and, like, tentative, you know, because when we was developing these things early, there wasn't a lot of people on the business side, but there was a lot of people on the creative side, and everybody was focused on one goal. Just trying to get this record right and get this record out. You know what I'm saying? And when you have that. That's why overall, with community and things spread a certain way is because you have everybody that's on board playing the same game. All right? You know what I'm saying?

And everybody on board at it. That's why he. That's why he pays himself to. Who pays you?

Jesus. So. All right, well, so I don't know if y' all seen this show on Netflix called How to Get Rich.

I did, and it's dope. I've been watching that, like, every day when it comes in. Financial plans. Exactly. But he.

Like a financial therapist. Yeah. Right. And so my rich life.

Right.

If you've seen the show, you know.

What I'm talking about.

It's my rich life, is that I never want to answer to a white man about my liability.

Talk that shit.

It doesn't matter If I make $200,000 a year or $20 million a year, as long as I don't have to answer to a white man about my livelihood. That's my rich life.

Amen.

And that's it. It ain't. No. I got an age or whatever. I'm, like, gonna slow down. But in terms of, like, my exit strategy, like that, I'm already there. Right?

You've been there for a while.

Yeah, I'm already there. So. So. So. So as long. Long as that isn't so. All of my strategies and trying to position. Well, I'm. I'm done at this.

It's all based around that.

So what I spend money on. If you see me, like, not spending money money, I'm thinking, oh, yeah, but I never want to ask to a white man. So I need to save money.

I need to save his money.

Yeah. I need to move to Florida and not pay those. Take taxes.

He did that. The condo is back.

So everything is literally based around that. So the exit strategy is the what? The what? My rich life is. My rich life is built around that concept. That concept. And as long as that's. And so it caused me to always think about discipline. It caused me to always think about, okay, you can't gamble. You can't gamble this month for the next three months, because you don't want to answer the white woman.

So it's like, you better take that white man money. You take that.

You better listen to him. So the white man answer to a white man, to me, like a boogeyman.

I guess that's the same concept of.

Like, master in my mind.

I just think of, like, I don't want no master.

Yeah, well, right.

You don't want no master.

I don't want to master. It's not okay listening to my mama, mama tell me what to do.

I don't want to.

The biggest thing about it is the only reason I say that is not even dealing with a racist thing. It's because what I spend the most of my time on is listening to and giving advice to people that make black art. Not white art, black art. So if I'm speaking to people and up talking to black athletes, black writers, black song, black producers, black artists, I don't want to be talking to a white person that's giving me advice about what we need to be doing with this black art.

Especially when that advice is covertly a direction.

It's a directive.

I pay for it.

Yeah, exactly.

It's like living in your mama. Your mama say like, hey, look, you don't like it here, you can leave. You know how. You know how mad your mama be when you step out that motherfucker?

You know what I'm saying?

And the craziest part is when they start looking at you like, wow, you really did that shit. You really made it.

He got the fucking money. So that is a real thing for me. And so I use that and be like, okay, if we want to go do this, we need to set this up. Because now, if I'm a part of your life now, we're on the same boat. You know what I'm saying? Like, that means that you better have one answer to white. It's about this. Cause if it did, then we gonna be separated.

Titanic real quick.

I don't care how big the boat is, as long as there ain't no white man telling me what to do with black art.

All right?

And as simple as that, as that way we were.

So we've been working on this documentary on this group called Little Brother. And Little Brother.

You mean this group called Little Brother. You mean one of the foremost leading groups in black art.

I'M glad you know.

Jesus Christ.

There's a moment in the story where Fonte realizes what independence can bring because he has a side group with his partner Nicolette called Foreign Exchange. Foreign Exchange never does a record deal with anyone. Little brother's in record deal, but Foreign Exchange isn't. He says after the first release of the Foreign Exchange album, what they got back was the same amount of money they got in the Airbnbs. He was like, I'm never doing a label again because I'm never.

I'm never going back.

But he said it was harder to get other people to see that poor.

Fonte man, because he gifted so many. Like, you don't get. You don't have Drake without Fonte. You don't have Drake.

You don't have a lot.

You don't have this whole music. Like, look, brother, that's crazy.

I mean, as long as you know. Oh, I know, I know. The part of doing this documentary is people know, right? Right. So I have to introduce it.

Okay.

Just in case they don't know at home who little brother is, they will know.

You're like, hey, I'm like, you don't know who little brother is. You playing the wrong game, man.

Just wait for the documentary slave, cuz it's coming. But learning that part, his story, you.

Know what I'm saying?

Learning that part of his story told me a lot about how many people don't see the independent game and understand that, like, yo, you don't got to answer to nobody. You might be making more money by.

Yourself than what I got to stop doing. You do answer to somebody, and it's the fans.

Yes, sir.

It's the consumer. It's the consumer. You know, it. It cuts out the middleman boss. The one that really, truly. Cuz even if you had to answer to white man, Asian, whoever, they still got to answer to consumer. So the direct consumer is really the real boss. That. That relationship.

Oh, God, I don't like this.

It's the real boss, you know what I'm saying?

Oh, this made my stomach. I was with you, yo. I was like, yeah, we ain't ask nobody.

There go dream killer over here.

She is a dream killer.

Correct.

How much the consumer influences influenced you.

The game, I guess you can say. Let me tell you something about the consumer. The consumer is your real partner. The consumer is your real partner. Because if you treat the consumer right, they're never leaving you. Just think about this. When you work for somebody, right? You work for a company, you go in, you're on time every day. You do your job. Job at. At the highest level every day. The moment the board says we got, we got to cut. Right. Let's say you're the highest paid. You've been in the longest. We got to cut. You're the first one to chop the block. Yeah, because they can hire somebody to do the same job you're doing for cheaper. The consumer would never do that. When the consumer. When you're truly kind and thoughtful to the consumer, they're gonna always show up and buy your product.

That's facts. R. Kelly still getting spins, right, R. Kelly. R. Kelly's still getting spins right now. Right at this very moment.

That's the difference. When you talk about being independent as. Okay, so, you know, when we was building this thing, I would be on Twitter searching, and I will see a fan or a consumer that's, like, complaining about, like, they didn't get a vinyl or like. And I would reach out to them like, yo, like, what you didn't get.

Wintertime or brain for wintertime?

I mean, for both.

Okay, for both.

You know, it don't matter who it is. Even with. With the book, people be like, yo, the book not so I'm like, yo, this gotta get fixed. I'm like. Because I know for a fact, fact, when you treat the consumer and they like, man, that's really dope. I really appreciate you. They're never leaving. They're never leaving.

You've turned that mistake into a lifetime entry into somebody's mind. That's crazy. So it's even. Even something up fixing it, you know, that's. It's kind of like being a man or a woman. Yeah. He's like, literally, it's an opportunity to force. To fortify a relationship.

Steve Stopp told me something that I took when I was promoting Culture Playbook. He said when he dropped the book, anybody that came up to him and talked about the book, he responded to. He said, thank you, or he. Whatever. He said, if you want to get his attention during that time, you talked about the book. Yeah, I know he wasn't lying because when I read the book book, I emailed him and he responded back, this is in 2011. I was so freaked out, I didn't even respond back to him.

Hold on.

Where did you get the email from?

I met the outside of the Script Club. Hey, man.

Manifestation, man. It's in your mind, man. Divine, man. We was dog that lives outside of Magic City.

No count 2007 at Platinum 21. See the in Buckhead off Piedmont Stout came in with Jason Jeter. I was working the door. Cause it was on Tuesday night. We had. We had a Tuesday night and it was cold. It was like November, right? And after the. The standing outside, he was cold, waiting on Jesse Jeter. And I was just like, man, man, commissioner. Like, bro. Like, he was like, yeah, he was like, cool. The just gave me his car. So in 2011, I get his book from a woman, bought me the book as a gift. I read the book and I emailed the be like, yo, this is incredible. And the responded. I didn't even respond back to this.

So.

So wait, you waited, Steve Stout four.

Years to use that card?

Yeah, I had that.

I mean, I was like, you didn't want. You didn't want to ask nothing else before those four years. You had no ass, you don't want no job.

Like you just waited four years. Let me tell you another thing. I know some like that, that card, it reminded me of something because around that same. Within that four years, right? It's a record executive name. Benny. Benny. What he's called being mad, but I think it's like Medina notina. His name was Ben Matt, but we used to call him Ben Mad, but he worked at. We remember Mike Karen. All right, so I just, I. I used to email him. So I emailed him this producer from like uptown New York, and he responded back. He was like, yo, this is hard, right? I was like, he's like, send me some more. So I sent him something. So somebody like the third email, he said, yo, can you call me? Oh, they put me on, oh, this probably 2009, 2010. He said, yo, let me give you a little advice. I don't know if nobody gonna ever tell you this. He said, every time you send me an email, and it's not better than that first beat pad you sent me, I'mma slowly now answering you, right? And so I stopped sending him beats and I waited until I found like the hardest that I thought that I would get and I sent it to him. And that's when like, it was that time that I'm just from uptown New York caught his attention. He wanted to sign it, but that man told me, he said, he said, he said, you keep sending me answering, right? So I took that same thought process with that card that I was like, man, I ain't gonna email this until I. Until I got so.

Okay, that makes that make sense. Okay, that's a great lesson.

That's a cold lesson.

I felt, I felt offended.

That's 2011. Let's fast forward to what else? 2022.

Yeah.

When he told me that every time somebody hit him by that book, he answered, I knew that was a liar. I know he don't remember. He met me 11 years ago.

That's a fact.

No, that has had a different life, right? Yeah. 1,000. That's interesting. And so for me, when it comes to all of this, it's like figuring out that like so with the culture playbook, every time somebody hit me about that book, I would respond on dm, all my messages. Somebody, man, I read the book. I would accept them, put them in general the invite. Yo, man, I really appreciate it. Somebody just told me about the book today.

I sat down. I be putting them in restricted. You better than me.

The kid, Kyrie came in. It was early. He was one of the first people there. And he came up to me, he was talking, he was like, I read the book. I said, wait, you read the book? Come talk to me. Come on, come on. I gave my number because now. Now I'm interested.

I'm not.

I'm interested because you're a person. Yeah, but I did not know how much you were aware we've been doing. So now I want to know more about what you thought about the book. What are you doing? But that kid is cool too.

Y' all keep picking up these kids, man. Y' all don't even ages.

But just the fact that he opened up about the book so early and so like welcome me. I was like, man, I want to know more about. You know so much about that kid now know so much about him.

He.

I know Ty got.

Guess what? In five years, if that kid comes up with a gamechanging idea, he's going to think about you. You know what I'm saying? Like, it is so important when you're playing the game to understand that the one that is on the other side of consumption, of consuming your. They're the real boss. You make them feel warm and thought about and cared about that they're spending their hard earned money. And I'm gonna say this. And I said this. You know me, I'm always be honest. That's why I am not a Frank Ocean fan anymore. Because when you got younger kids, you don't know how much money they spend. Been to come to Coachella to see you perform. And you do them like that. You're not thinking about the consumer. You're like operating like your God, you know what I'm saying? And there's a slow fall for like that. I Don't give a how incredible your art is because those kids are going through depression. They're going through identity situations.

Yeah.

They listen to Frank Ocean and they're listening to you. They're looking at you as potentially somebody that can help them. And when they show up somewhere and you decide to not come when they've spent that money, you have no clue how you have negatively impacted them.

But is there a way like you did when you say like someone, let's say, doesn't get the book, doesn't get an order or you didn't respond to whatever you may have missed, looked over them human mistake. I really love the idea that you said you went to go fix it immediately.

Yeah, he's not gonna fix it.

I'm just saying, is there an opportunity there's something to fortifying a relationship with.

Your consumer one time. But he's not gonna fix it.

Well, I pray he does. I don't. I pray he does because he's thug. He a thug.

I don't pray. I don't pray for any individuals necessarily who have all the favor in the world already. It's somebody else that need that fragrance.

That's facts.

It's somebody that up. I know.

I really love Frank Ocean. Like honey bro is really like a good.

But you right? You know who I love? Scissors. You want to know? I love scissors.

She going to go out there sick.

SZA has mental breakdowns before every show.

And go out there and not none.

Of the fans knows it. Sister like Jimmy, like be it like Willie.

Be like.

You would not know it.

Those are before the game.

You would not know. She go out to that. Every SZA thinks every fan hates her before every show. And she still goes out there.

Amazing.

That is why like how they came about the ground.

She was floating over us in a boat.

You know what I'm saying? Like, so then after holding to your.

Point this after backstage whenever you go greeted every single human being stayed there late.

So, yeah, I don't think Frank Ocean is a great artist to his boss. Gotcha. To his consumers. And now he's drunk the Kool Aid and he's not going to realize that the impact he could have had on the world. He won't have it because he. He's not a good steward. Hope it's blessed.

And you know what? I hope he has a good exit strategy on that.

Yes.

Boom. Boom.

Hope he has a great exit strategy because boom.

Any. Any final words on playing the game?

Thank you. Play gracefully. Play it with integrity. Play it with nobility. You know what I'm saying? You may. Everybody may not get it about this, but if you have the opportunity to get about this, give the cheat codes to somebody behind cuz this hard.

She definitely hard.

Thank you for your time.

Thank you, brother.

Thank you for my time.

Sophisticated guest ho and me out.

Rince knows that greatness takes time. But so does laundry. So Rince will take your laundry and hand deliver it to your door, expertly cleaned. And you can take the time pursuing your passions. Time once spent sorting and waiting, folding and queuing, now spent challenging and innovating and pushing your way to greatness. So pick up the Irish flute or those calligraphy pens or that daunting beef Wellington recipe card and leave the laundry to us. Rinse. It's time to be great.