A panel discusses lifelong learning through self-directed education, AI, and community spaces, then shifts to artist management lessons from a 10+ year relationship with Denzel Curry. Key takeaways: early platform building on SoundCloud, financial planning with high savings rates, patience with artist development, and the importance of live events and real marketing over hype.
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I can't even say this. You have to stop recording on this.
Hold on. Welcome back. We'll be doing another episode of you Money. I'm. Yo, it's my partner, Ty Simon. Show you recognize our faces, but we also got some new faces with us today. Ty, can you please introduce our amazing guest, our man?
We got Reese and we got Mark. Are both of y' all from Miami?
Yep.
And you know we in Miami. Cause you know I love Miami. Okay. Cowboy land, baby. But today's show, we gonna really touch.
On.
Back to school once again. Funky Money is like, really a ignorant conversation about wellness. And one of the things about wellness for me is education.
Right.
And so wanted to just speak about back to school.
Right.
What does that mean individually for you all? Because I do believe that college is not for Everybody, but I 1000% believe that schooling being taught and educated is for everybody. And how you go about doing it on your own individual journey is really what we're gonna kind of, like, kick off with before we start talking, you know, nigga, shit.
I mean, Reese and Mark, how. How were you guys in school? Like, did you see school as something that was necessary for you, or did you feel like you learned more outside of school?
I think I learned a lot more outside of school. I think the basics, you know, as far as, like, reading, writing, of course, are obviously fundamentally important, but life lessons and just everything, I think I feel like I'm a student of life, you know what I'm saying? A lot of the things I learned.
And a lot of the key things.
I learned outside of school, I think is what put me in the position that I'm in versus high school person.
Yeah, I guess I think, like, speaking with both Mark and I wouldn't really pursue the higher education route and just kind of learning. Learning through life and experiences that brings. I mean, for me, I guess, like middle school, high school, I treat that as, like. I mean, education is education, get that teacher for them, whatever, all that. But kids, it's the people around you. It's like building that community with them, what opportunities arise from being around them, and hopefully other things in the future if they all continue to, you know, do things in life. And hopefully those are new peoples for a long time. That's kind of what for me is, you know, that's. That's. I guess what I got from school. Just, like, who you meet and how you move through life with those people, you meet. Community.
Yeah. You know what? It's so crazy that you. You mentioned that, Reese, because I know Each one of us probably knows somebody that went to college after high school because their parents just told me they had to go to college, right? And recently I had, like, one of my best educational experiences for this program that I got accepted to at Harvard. And I tell everybody, I was like, so how was the class? I was like, bro, it was the most impactful education experience I had. It was only for four days. And this coming from me, I have undergrads, I have a master's degree, I have different certifications. But what made it the most impactful learning experience, because I knew why I was attending, right? And I don't think that in high school there's any programming to say to you, hey, you're gonna go to college. The people that you meet in college are more important than the actual books.
That you're gonna buy in college.
That's not to say don't go to school, don't go to class, don't do good grades. But what I'm saying to you is, remember and understand that you might be in the class with the next person that's gonna create the most revolutionary product that we are experiencing. And I think if people of color, brown and black people, if we're told that be like, yo, you're gonna go. And this is gonna be a very. This is where you're gonna go build your next level of community. That's gonna be the reason why if you drop out, you dropping out because this community has said, we got something that's going to be bigger than school. We need to, we need to focus on that, not because we failed out.
Right.
I think you told me this, or I heard you say, or maybe I just read it somewhere that Spike Lee was like, I went to college for the equipment. That's not for me. I went, I went to STEM school because I could use the equipment for free.
That's right.
Like, that is like, to have that level of thinking and young, like, it's just not a lot of. I'm curious on what triggered that. Who gave him that information? Or did he just have, like one of those internal, ah, moments?
Epiphany.
Yeah.
It's really interesting that you think about school as where I can get the tools. Where can I get the tools for the thing that I know I want to do because fighting to go to school because he wanted to figure out where he was going in his life. Even if he was going to film. Where can I get the equipment to do the films? I want to make. Right? And make it in school. So as you Were saying you learned more outside of school. What were some of the tools you picked up that you feel like you still apply to your life today?
Stand out more. Because, like, we were talking about earlier, there's so many people trying to do what we're doing or whatever. How do you make it stand out? How do you break it? You know what I'm saying? So that's what I think. One of the main takeaways.
Yeah, I feel that tools is an.
Interesting concept when you think about learning, right? Because when we are like, now, I think about, I can't detach being educated and the tools. I need to be like, I can't separate them anymore, right? And I don't know when that happened. I guess being an entrepreneur and you start to realize, like, dang, man, I don't even got the tools to run my business. You're not even thinking about the. You're not thinking about, I don't got the education to run my business. You think about, like, dang, like, I need funding. That's a tool. I need staff members. That's a tool. Or, like, dang, I need, you know, you know, certain level of information to be able to know, oh, I can do this or I can do that. And it's one of those things where when I start thinking about, oh, okay, back to school, it's meaning that always trying to discover those new tools that can help me sharpen my skill sets, help me sharpen myself. So, like, I use AI like that now. Like, AI is my new back school too. Because now if you don't really focus on that shit, you can feel like an old man.
Like you.
Like, you're a dinosaur, right? So I'm like, that's my back to school for me. Like, I'm always like, okay, AI Blockchain. Let me learn this. Let me go back to school with this kind of, like, educate myself. So I don't feel like I'm gonna get phased out right? Through the technology and all these different aspects of things, right?
So when you fly this course that you're on to, the AI course.
If I had to. If I had to say that. No, if I had to say 2013, we had to say that. If 2013, you had to name the course. If 2023 is a course, I would say that this is the AI course. You know what I'm saying? Because it is. Whenever you see in the market that there's a technology that's coming into the market that scares everybody, you have to. You have to lean into it because it's the same thing about the Y2, the bubble and like, oh, when it turns 2000, the computer's gonna shut down and it's not gonna remain frames and all these different things. But that ain't what happened, right? So you gotta lean into it when people are afraid of it.
And that was not a good job. That was based on miseducation. People are educated about what people want to do. So create all this work permit. I feel like AI is very similar. There's a lot of room to kind of project fear versus find ways of receiving the attitude. What were you going to say? Oh no, I naturally, I think certain group of people think that probably kind of where we're at, you know. While we got to this point though, every time something like that comes, it's like we're trying to figure out how to game the system. So it's always that. It's like something new comes in your, like, I cannot take advantage of this. I mean that's where, you know, technical crypto, AI, whatever it was like these things pop up. And that's for me, that's, that's my approach. How can I take advantage of it? It's like even going back to like, you know, going to like college to have the tools. It's kind of like music industry. It's like a lot of times we do some bullshit deal with a major basically because they had the tools. And early on in your career, like even as a manager or working on the publisher side or in our side, like you might take a bullshit deal or go into a bullshit situation just cause you don't have the tools just yet. That's how you learn. It's kind of like getting in those moments where they might not be as comfortable, but it allows you to help guide whoever's around you in the future, hopefully in that way 1000%.
And I'll be remiss if I didn't speak on something that Mark and Reese have been working with the same artist by the name of Denzel Curry for over a decade.
Right.
And as a manager in this business and watching other managers, that's very rare. And so with that I want to ask questions like your 10 years of working with an artist, you know, that's pretty much been a very, very loyal client to both of you all. What is something that you can.
Go.
Back to school with with, with a young manager and you can say, hey, if you want to do this and you want to potentially have longevity working with one client, try to think about these things.
Right.
What are some of those tools that you can actually give? Because even me and Brent have been working successfully.
Continue.
Right. Like Denzel was doing shows and doing a 3C when I met them. That was in 2013. So you know me and Britt close to the 10 year mark. Closer to 10 than we are 5. But like, I know I have some different tools that I was. That I would give young managers, but I'm curious on what things and what ideologies or whatever you might feel that a young manager can take from your 10 plus year experience working with the same artist. How would y' all go about? Like, I guess being the educate, being the tool for them to give them some knowledge.
One thing I struggled with early on, it's cool to trust your gut as a manager, but you also gotta. Don't let your gut overshadow get in the way of creativity when the artist is trying to create. Whatever. I'd be in the studio with Denzel early on and you know, he wouldn't be doing it a certain way or the way that I like, but you gotta let him figure it out, you know what I'm saying? It's important to let them figure it out and then edit it later, you.
Know what I'm saying? Right, right, right.
So basically let them work through their idea.
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.
That's such a gem. Because I know at least 10 managers that's been fired or the artist grew distance from them because they was too controlling over their art.
Yeah.
You know what I'm saying? That's like a real issue. You know what I mean?
Yeah, for sure. Kind of took that. Sometimes it's tough as, as, like when we're trying to be creative in. In that, in that, in that moment as well. Like feel like we got a lot to, to add to. You just got to step back, sort of let them do what they do. I think I learned that early as well. Just before working themselves to, you know, I feel like even Mark, like going off, like sometimes I can't deal with it. It's just like. But I guess, I guess something with not going from that is patience. Like patience. Such a big thing. I mean, we've been at this was 10 years, 10 years, 11 sort of when we kind of started. But like 10 is like where we're like, all right, cool.
It's a real thing.
So it's been 10 long years of like having a lot of patience and letting things build and letting the process work. You know, luckily he's trusted us with that, so obviously he's had his ups and downs. We all have, like getting frustrated with certain things, but like allowing it to be and sort of build to where it needs to build. I think we still have a lot to do with him and he feels the same. Like he's not where he wants to be at. He feels like bigger and do more things and be more impactful and all of that. So I mean, I think that that helps us all sort of motivate each other. But like the patience thing, especially when majors kind of just like they can come in and just throw money at something, the artist kind of will look at that, look at somebody else who has a quick moment. It's like, well, that's a bubble. It's going to pop. It's going to go. You know, we're working on the long sort of long game. So it takes patience.
I think that the patient thing is so key because it speaks towards what you're saying, but it also speaks directly to what, what you're saying about yourself and the audience. I can honestly say that if I didn't have patience, Brett would have definitely fired me, you know what I'm saying? Because you'll be somewhere and you'll be like, you'll want to say something, but then you'd be like, eh, you know what? Like, I learned that if I was gonna give any advice to a young manager that want to be around, that wanna be involved with an arts career for a very long time, especially if they turn to be success and whatever successful life to them is to really, really pick and choose your battles.
Exactly.
That's one, you know what I'm saying? Like when I'm sitting down and I'm like, I'm educating myself about my back to school is always going to be educating myself about the ever changing element of the human brain. So like how people digest things, how people are being raised, how social media is impacting people to be able to have shorter attention spans. So when I'm thinking about artists, I'm like, I can't read what, you know, David geffen did or I can't read what, you know, l. A. Reid did or what Russell Simmons did and try to. What Dane dash did and try to apply it to today's artist. I can get the information from a knowledge perspective on how they, how the business, how they move around in the business. But if I treated artists like how Dane treated artists, you know, today. Oh yeah, it don't matter how great of a job you did. They don't make them feel bad and their Self esteem and their confidence and then, you know, they don't want to be around you because they're not. The humans today don't have the same level read like back in the day, right? And so I know for a fact, just me just being like, no, no.
No, it's all good.
Like, that's not, that's not, that's a tree. I don't want to show. I'm not gonna down that either, you know. And that probably has extended my time working with this artist just because of that pure fact. No matter how good I am or business, whatever, just being able to say.
Man, you know, just let that man.
Do what he want to do, man. Like, he figured it out, right? So it's like the same thing with studio, doing the same thing with life, you know what I'm saying?
So I don't manage Mars. I never had that interest because I felt like to all y' all point, it's taking another person's dreams and holding onto it not too tightly, but guiding them, but not overstepping. I never, I felt like I need the equation to properly manage someone else. So I wanted to ask about development because as you're going through this time with a person, you're obviously seeing them grow. But how do you know how to help them grow if they don't necessarily understand the business or don't understand how things are changing? Like, how do you keep somebody on the right track? I mean, with zeal. I mean, it just, it's conversation, you know. Now when they say, with like babies, not to say zub and babies, but like when you speak to babies, they like talk to them regularly instead of doing the baby voice and shit. I feel like a lot of managers do that with artists. A lot of labels do that with artists. They speak to them in baby voice because they know that like some artists don't. They don't care as much, they care about their art and they don't want to hear the business aspect of things. But with Zell, it's like that approach of like not doing the baby talk. I'm telling you shit directly, like. And I'm going to be very transparent because that's just how I always roll, you know, there's probably certain things that maybe I think I've held myself back from doing business wise because of the transparency of it, you know, where I'm like, if I'm not transparent about it, like, I can't move forward with doing certain things, you know, like, especially the way the labels, like publishers structured things, like Old ass deals are just dated and stupid and. But it's like Wisel was the same. It was like he came to us originally with when he was like, wanted to do something bigger. He does not. He's not really like trying to get signed. That wasn't his approach back. Like when we had, you know, 20, 2015, 2016, when freshman happened, he was like, all right, y' all saying I gotta sign a label to do something more. Fine like that. But I just know whatever y' all do, I'm keeping my masters, you know. So it's like, all right, cool. Explain to him why, like you approach to that and like why that might not be the best move for you to get what you want, you know. But at the same time listening to him and being, all right, cool, we're gonna take that and move in that way, you know, it's like when they said when Baby did it. Yeah, but he just walked in the label saying the wildest shit and everybody was like, nah, that's not how it works. He's yeah, I don't care. That's just how it's gonna be. And the labels were like, I guess so, fine, fuck it, you know. And we did the same with Zell in that way, you know, we're like, nah, nah, nah, we ain't getting nothing. None of that, you know. And they'd just be like, nah, that's just how it is. We got what we wanted because we were just like, you know, pushing it. But I guess, yeah, it's like that. It's like he just walked in the label saying the wildest shit and everybody was like, nah, that's not how it works. Yeah, I don't care. That's just how it's gonna be. And the labels were like, I guess so, fine, fuck it, you know. And we did the same with Zell in that way, you know, we're like, nah, no, we ain't getting nothing. None of that, you know. And they just be like, nah, that's just how it is. We got what we wanted because we were just like, you know, pushing it. But I guess again, it's like that. It's like with artists, everybody we talk to sometimes it's not what they want. They don't do the baby talk. Just try to be transparent.
It's funny, it's funny you said baby talk, right? Because I can relate to that. I remember a publishing executive that I was doing some co management stuff, basically told me to lie to the artist. They don't give them all that information. I was just like, that sound, like, stupid. Like, they don't want to be managing somebody's dumb. And if you mention dumbasses, they're eventually gonna do some dumb. Like, fire your dumb ass. They're gonna do it out of not understanding what they're doing. So I was just like, nah, I need to tell them that the person that they think want to support them didn't even like their music at the publishing company so that they can stop talking to me about how I need to go talk to them, this person, to help them. I'm like, man, that. That don't want to sign you. And then it would be like, for real, like, yes. So stop talking to me about that. Talk to me about the people that are you seeing, not the person that you like. Oh, my God, I can't believe that this person even wanted something. No, they didn't. The person that is championing you, that's seeing you every day, that work at the company, too. That's the person that wanted to sign you. And that individual just did not get in their way. They signed off on it, and they was at the event. They was at the signing. But stop talking to me about that person. And I said. And the artist was like, wow, thank you for saying that I didn't know. And tell her.
Why would you tell.
Why would you tell her?
Like.
Cause that's the truth. You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't. I can't sit and hear you just lie. Not knowing you lie, right? And pushing me to do something that I'm like, nah, it don't work like that. Because that person wasn't that. That person didn't believe it.
It's not quite a lie, but you live in a fantasy.
Yes.
You're not living in reality. So I can't have you out here on clouds or be on the ground, you know, especially when most artists already live in the clouds. Like. Like, that's just how they are. A lot of artists, they're not grounded at all. So we're supposed to be that for them, you know? And, like, it just feels like you're just not doing them a disservice by not. By not, like, trying to have that connection to the ground. I'm gonna be real with you. I'm telling you how it is on this side. So, you know, you can choose to accept it or understand it or not, you know, that's on you, but I'm telling you how it works. And the choice is on them as opposed to, like, us. Us Making a choice, you know, like how they say, don't, you know, don't. Don't add the reverb, you know, before. You know what I mean? Like, just like that in post, like, don't record the reverb on it because it's like, it's, you know, you can't fix it later, you know, so it's.
Like, I do know that the managers that are, like, very direct, very matter of fact, very straightforward, without picking on them, without the artists feel like they picking on them, do have longer relationships with the artists, with their clients, the ones that are just like, shooting straight. Because what ends up happening is when they start to get notoriety and they start to build, people don't be honest with them because they're afraid that they're going to get something taken away, rather like not being, being able to be around or they're cut off how much money they paying you. So everybody's hesitant to be like, nah, you should do that.
Right?
But the one person that's consistently saying it, they, whether you know it or not, they respect you. Cause I know I was plenty of times that I was like, I'm about to get fired from that shit.
I just told them.
And then it came back and kind of worked in my favor. But I have gotten fired for being, like, very direct and overprotective for the artist or whatever the case. But. But I. I've always said that if I lose a client because I was trying to be protective or if I was trying to be just harsh with education, I'm cool with that. I was gonna lose no client because you said I was stealing, you know what I'm saying? Or no negative like that.
You know what I mean?
Because most, most artists ain't gonna be like, yeah, I fired him because he was trying to tell me what to do all the time. That was good for me, you know what I'm saying?
We saying it because we care, though.
It's coming from a place of love and understanding, you know what I'm saying? You're not just talking out your head, your experience, you know? You know, you know, like, if I'm giving you this advice, it's because I care. It's not because of me thinking I know it or whatever. It's based off experience and I want.
The best for you.
Yeah. Earlier you had mentioned how you've been managing Zell since he was 16 years old. Talk about that a bit about getting your artist, so. And the type of things that you did to properly educate him on his journey.
Zell's situation was pretty cool because, like, he came in through this group called Raider Clan. Raider Clan was like an online group or whatever of, like, different members from, like, LA, NY, Atlanta, Miami. Started by this dude, Space Ghost Perk.
Oh, shit.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So Zell kind of already had, like, a platform when I met him. He had, like 2,000 followers. He was getting, like, some early spins on UK radio with, like, Hudson Mohawk and late night and all that, you know, so he had, like, a little footing or whatever, but he just needed.
Like.
Some guidance and just somebody to help organize his life. Because at the time, like I said, he was 16, still in high school. He just didn't have it quite figured out yet in terms of just organization. So he just kind of needed us to come in and help shape shift in there and move things around. Whatever I want to say, like, around 2012. It was around 2012, right, Reese?
Yeah. When we started in 2012, he made.
The conscious decision to want to work on the album, but he was kind of just like, I don't want it to just be a mixtape. Because he had already put out three mixtapes on Daphil or whatever, and they were doing well, but he was like, you know, like, how can I separate myself from everybody else in the underground that's doing their thing or whatever? I don't want to do lo Fi anymore. So that was one of the decisions. I don't want to do lo Fi anymore. I don't want to put the music out just on YouTube. So we were looking at the blogs, and I had stumbled upon, like, SoundCloud or whatever. So we like SoundCloud because of the layout. It allowed you to do comments, whatever. You could put up the art or whatever.
So it was like, all right, well.
Damn, how can we make the art stand out more?
He draws.
You know what I'm saying? So I'm like, all right, yeah, fuck it. Just draw all your artwork or whatever. We'll just get it, like, you know.
Printed up or whatever.
Boom, boom, boom.
So started drawing artwork. So now the artwork started standing out on the blogs or whatever, Whatever. When they see it, it's like, damn.
Okay, that's unusual or whatever, because this is own style.
So it was just like little key things like that or whatever, like switching over to Soundcloud early on back in, like 2012, having him draw his art and not doing lo fi, selling the album versus it being a mixtape, just like little things like that that help.
Him kind of like, that was a big jump because everybody was Just putting stuff out, especially with SoundCloud at that fifth and all that going. So it's like, I'm gonna do an album, but I'm gonna sell it. And, you know, it was scary for him because he's like, I don't even understand how that happens. So we did it, and it worked for him. You know, also really early when him was. I think he was 16 when he started, he had a bank account, understand how to deal with money. None of that. When he turned 18, his first attorney.
Dale settlement.
Yeah, say names. But I. Theo. Theo.
Well, we say names over here.
Theo's very aggressive. You know what I'm saying? So. So Theo immediately was like, I got this deal. I got that deal. You know, just. Just, like, putting our face in. Like, had to kind of slow him down. And you understand, like, you throwing money at him. He don't even have, like, a bank account. Like, he just. Just. Just had his first bank account. He doesn't understand the access to money just yet. So for you to throw that at him is only going to put him in a hole because he's. He's just gonna dumb out. Because it's like, what you do when you're that young and you come from nothing and you get your first check. Oh, you're just like, yo, like, I'm like, you know, probably gonna buy a thousand comic books. I don't know.
Like, you know, wait, before Zale sell, way before Zel, you gonna sell all the money.
So we're like, man, nah, slow down. Like, it ain't time yet. Like, we not. We not even. We still working. Like, gotta build. Like, you know, there's a process to this. I mean, he understood it. Once I told him, he was just like, all right, I want to step back. Next year came and then the same thing.
I know my G was lawyer trying to sell me some so much. I was just like, I don't even know why he worked me anymore. Cause I just kept saying no to him. That's dope. You mentioned that earlier on, and I don't think a lot of artists understand the importance of this, but it's also a slippery slope. You said earlier on Zay really trusted y' all with his finances and, like, you know, and being able to know that, you know, you always gonna, like, take care of whatever need to get taken care of, but him still be put, like, in a good position to be. To have his own, like, you know, privacy or his own money or whatever the case may be. Can you walk us through you all's thinking as a team on, like, what that strategy kind of, like, felt like at that time, because you still was young, too, trying to figure out money and, like. But then you got this younger kid who's depending on you to, like, not mess up his money. Like, how did. How did y', all, like, team work together, kind of, like, walk through those ideas?
I mean, shit.
Full disclosure.
I was also working at Whole Foods, so the times where we'd be touring, I'd have to go back to work. I saw that in the book. You were working at the airport and.
Whatnot, touring, and I related to that.
I was like, damn, I feel that.
With me, it's like, yeah, we're learning a lot of that as we go through. I obviously came from before working with Liselle, working on the major side, you know, with artists. At the time, I was working with Tierra Thomas, right? And, you know, just seeing her situation and how kind of how she got signed and how it kind of fell through, and, like, as an artist, you know, she's killing them, right? And now as a writer, but, like, as an artist, it just didn't happen. Everybody, like, looking at her like, yo, she's the next Lauryn Hill or the next whatever. Like, they were throwing so many things at her. I think Interscope wanted to be the next Rihanna, and it was just like, that's not even her vibe, but whatever. Just seeing, like, how her finances were going and like, I'm like, yo, like, I don't. You can't have that with a young artist. Just, like, just learning from that and being like, you know, I just want to see. I want to see something, right? So early we made the decision, like, talk to business managers when it makes sense and it's right, you know, we would like, you know, with his money, it was all. It was all, like, he saw it all. So we'd be like. And early on, like, Mark and I would all talk like, mark, I'm not taking no nothing from this check. You know what I'm saying? I'd rather have Zell. I'd rather be invested in something that Zell, that works towards him, as opposed to us having little extra 100 bucks, 200 bucks.
And that goes a long way.
It does. It does. Especially young managers that young, early age. Like, you know, I was luckily in a position where whatever I was. I was making enough doing things that you didn't, you know, and I was just like, all right, cool. I'm all right here. So. So that was, like, early, early decision with him. And. And let him know that, like, look, you know, this is what we got to work with. This is gonna cost. This is how we move with this. And trying to build his. His mind to think like a business manager is gonna think once he has a real businessman. It took us a while to give him, but it was only because we wanted to make sure we weren't wasting money paying a business manager when not enough was coming in. So we just structured everything out in that way. Like, everything was like, you know, we had an early situation too, where going back to. I mean, that trust that is kind of probably where it took for him was he was being told by another person or whatever. But just like, this is not how this is supposed to go. You're supposed to be doing. You got. You got these records, viral records. You're supposed to be doing club dates and this and that. And we're just like, yo, this is not that type of, like, you're not going to not do records at the strip club. You know what I'm saying? You're not doing iguanas. Like, the Miami clubs, like, the urban clubs are like, you know, really hit, like, where Ross could pop in and get a quick 10, 15, 20, or whatever and just pop in some songs and bounce. That's not like you're that Zoe. Not that, you know, and. And off top, you know, this was another attorney sort of trying to folks whatever. Yeah. Put me in a corner and was like, all these numbers I got don't make sense in this sense how they don't make sense. And I don't know how I pulled it out my ass. But I was able to remember everything and kind of just like, piece it together at the moment, right? Everybody looked at me, like, super skeptical, but I was like, this is what it is. Y' all could go back and do the numbers. I go through your math and like. And like, you know, everybody at the time, everybody crazy cell went back, did the numbers, you know what I'm saying? Just, like, looked at everything and he's like, damn, he's right. They playing. You know what I'm saying? Like, what they're telling me is false. What he's telling me is right, you know, And I was just like, oh, like, that's. That's kind of what it took to him when he was like, I trust. Because they could have been to. For me at that time. And we didn't. We're just like. I mean, we didn't even take a percentage. Like, the whole point was to make sure that you Know, this was his first. His first tour, I think, on the achievers, right?
Yeah, 2014.
So he was on tour on the Achievers. I remember that. I remember that tour. You know, the numbers on that is Nothing. He making 2, 250 a show. Like, how do you. You know, it's like his attorney's telling him, like, you should have came back at least with a hundred grand, like this. Wild numbers. But. But yeah, that's. That's sort of what. What early on, like, helped him understand, like, we're setting this up in a way so you know how it moves forward. Like, luckily, Zell now is at a point where. And I hate to say this publicly, not. Not. Not for everybody else, but for him, because. You know what I'm saying? Because he starts to think like that, where it's just like, he's good. He's good. Like, he can stop making music right now. He's good, like, because he's invested. He's invested in a way. And because I think, because, like, we put this mindset in his mind. Early was it like, bro, you don't. And he doesn't. He doesn't. You don't see him, like, he just not getting things in that. But it's because he can't. But, like, Early, I was like, put 60% away, 70% of as much as you can, and. And live off this. Learn to live off this. And he still knows how to live off this and still kind of does. You know what I'm saying? And he's put so much away throughout his career that it's like, he's good. He's so invested, like, it's insane.
And I'm glad you said that, because it's important for artists that will see this to know to say, oh, man, I can work with the same people that I like for 10 years. And in 10 years, which is not a very long time, from 16 to 26, 27, to be good. It is very important for you to say that because it shows artists that you're more likely to be successful. Once you get in a habit of working with the same people and you start to know each other and you follow these trails. The same thing with any artist that's been successful with. With me on a. On a financial side, with Brent or any other producers that he's worked with, either I controlled their money or they surrendered the money to me for whatever the reason is. Brent first publishing deal, he. For, like, eight bands in, like, four days and was like, take the money from me. Get the money from me. Because they was never supposed to send the money to his.
Him.
They were supposed to send it to business. Business account. And whatever happened, that W9, they sent that money to him, and he was in D.C. at his brother's bachelor party. And I said, that took everybody to the strip club. I was like, yo, B, what are you doing?
I'm at.
I'm back at Delta. I'm working this. And I'm, like, looking in the bank. I'm like, where the money at, man? I'm Karen, calling Karen. Like, yo, they send the money. The money hadn't went to him. I'm like, oh, this because they had sent me my money because I had the lod, right? So they sent me my money directly. But then the other money was supposed to go into the business account. Then I was gonna put him on the $30,000, you know what I'm saying? But he blew through that. He blew through, like, eight bands. Like, I was like, yo, he just said, hey, bro, just take money from me. Because I. I don't know. I don't know if I'm gonna be able to do this. It's a lot of money. I ain't never seen this much money before in my account. And he willingly just wired the money to the business account. And from there up until recently that he just always just let me handle the money. It wasn't until he started realizing, hey, bro, I'm making a lot of money, and you keep telling me what I can't spend. I'm like, yeah. Cause we ain't going back. You know what I'm saying? We not going back. Like, you can be mad at me. I'd rather you be mad at me for me being like, nah, we not spending no $300,000 a month music.
Yeah.
Then us spend $300,000 music. You mad at me because we broke? I'd rather be the latter. You know what I'm saying? Like, ah, no, I'd rather just, like, say, hey, yeah, man, you know we can't do that. That. That's not in our operational range, Right? But there's something very. Because I used to do the same thing we put. I used to put everything back in the sunder business, the Brit business, winter time. I used to always. I just, like, never took my commission. And just to make sure that they were straight, you know what I'm saying? Like, they were straight. And over time, it just worked out in my favor. Just like it worked out in y' all favor, you know what I'm saying? And the Artist's favor. So I've never seen anybody in my experience lose when the team comes together. And like, you know what? I'm gonna keep reinvesting into this vision that we all are trying to achieve.
You guys also have a story, right? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Opened up a shop, 2017 Lower East coast singles management company. Initially just a bookshop. Like just trying to bring like, you know, design books, art books, like culture shit. Like just the idea of like curating something for the youth. So initially it was a bookshop and it had like, you know, they had like the stadium seating kind of like like in the back, you know what I'm saying? So kids would just pull up grasslands, sit on, sit on, like sit on the thing. Like, like Brick Mag and shit like that. Like these cool, like magazines and books. Like what's the distribution? Like if you don't get it, you don't order it yourself. Like there's no chance for you to ever see it because like a lot of shops and places don't have things like that. So for me, I was like, something here that just like will allow, you know, the youth and the community to like to get kids just pull up grass, hunt, sit on, sit on, like sit on the thing like Brick Mag and shit like that. Like these cool like magazines and books. They're like, what's the distribution? Like if you don't get it, you don't order it yourself. Like there's no chance for you to ever see it because like a lot of shops and places don't have things like that. So for me I was like, open something here. It just happened like will allow, you know, the youth and the community to like to get inspiration and motivation from. So initially it was that and then we started to sell like clothes and stuff. And you know, as we moved, we were in Alapata initially and then moved to Design District. You know, once we moved to Design District, we just felt like a step up. You know, they brought us in because they were like, oh, we're building out this mall or whatever with all these high end stores and get inspiration and motivation from. So initially it was that and then we started to sell like clothes and stuff. And you know, as we moved, we were in Alapata initially and then moved to Design the street. You know, once we moved to design the street, it just felt like a step up. You know, they brought us in because they were like, oh, we're building out this mall or whatever with all these high end stores and we don't have the youth you know, so they're like, they gave us. Obviously, we can't afford being around Louis Vuitton, like, all this other shit. Like, literally, you know, we were. At the time, we were right next to Pharrell's restaurant, whatever, so. And it's a swan. And like, yeah, we can't afford that space. But they were like, nah, we don't have the youth, you know, so they're like, they gave us. Obviously, we can't afford being around Louis Vuitton, like, all this other shit. Like, but literally, you know, we were. At the time, we were right next to Pharrell's restaurant. She's going to try to bring that to the neighborhood or whatever. So we transitioned into clothes and stuff, like, you know, whatever. So. And it's a swan. And like, yeah, you can't afford that space. But they were like, nah, we just want y' all to bring that to the neighborhood or whatever. So we transitioned into clothes and stuff, like, you know, we started bringing more the Highness shit to kind of fit in with the. With the neighborhood. But it was like, you know, we carry stuff like that. But as a transition, like, the shop just became a place for youth and community and kids. I think we've even, like, been able to feed off a lot of the art inside of the Ring and more. The Highness shit kind of fit in with the neighborhood, but it was like, you know, we carry stuff like that. But as a transition, like, the shop just became a place for you from the community and stuff. Like, even connect Zell with certain people that have helped him sort of execute his vision on things as kids. I think we've even been able to feed off a lot of the art and stuff, like, even connect Zell with certain people that have helped him sort of execute his vision on things, especially, like, young artists, like, visual artists that are doing stuff. And that's what it was. I mean, now we're in Little river, we needed a bigger space, so that's kind of what we're doing. And, yeah, it's just a shot, like, same as clothes and books and sneakers. Especially, like, young artists, like, visual artists that are doing stuff. And that's what it was. I mean, now we're in Little river, we needed a bigger space, so that's kind of what we're doing in play, you know, carrying, like, Solomon Parks and stuff like that. Just, you know. Yeah, it's just a shot, like, same. Same as clothes and books and sneakers. I'm just trying to bring something to the city that doesn't have Miami's like.
40 year old virgin, you know, there's no virgins. That's 40 year old Miami, buddy.
The city.
No, no, I feel exactly what you.
Mean because it's like city that you look at is so much culture, but it lacks in a lot of other things. It's a major city. I mean, we've grown a lot. It's Covid. But before that it was a big city and it lacked so many things. I think it lacked a lot of like, you know, artistic culture. I'm not gonna say like culture on the side of like humans or whatever, but it's like we're melting pot of Hispanics and black community. Like ain't no white people in the city. That's why it's like you look at it like no Caucasian, white, you know what I'm saying? The whites is all Hispanic. Like it's weird. It's like I don't know what the percentage is now, but I know me growing up, it was like 13 to 14%. So like for you to understand that like the city was not. We don't, we grow up different, we see it differently because we don't. You know, the, I think the pressure you feel from like white people or whatever in other cities, you don't see it here. They're not here from pressure like that. They're not here. They're the minority.
So it's interesting that you bring up the shop because another thing about back to school for me is being able to have somewhere brick and mortar to go and learn. You talking about these books to learn about art, learn about design, learn about a new brand. It's a community. It makes it, it makes it. It makes you feel like you're not a character on the Internet, right? When you can actually go and see the same person that you talk to on, on the email, on the email Internet. And I think that enhances education. Like, I think it makes education stick. And see the same person that you talk to on the email, on the email Internet. And I think that enhances education. I think it makes education stick, right? So you read a book online versus when you can read the book at a library while you see other people reading, you like, oh, I want to read a book they're reading. And then you can, right? So you read a book online versus when you can read the book at a, at a library while you see other people reading, you like, oh, what book they're reading. And then you can go and pick that book up. But you don't never. You can't never do that if you're reading all reading books on the Internet. Yeah, but if you're not reading a book in a community center or like in a bookstore, you can't seek and go and pick that book up. But you don't never, you can't never.
Do that if you're a reading.
All are reading books on the Internet. But if you're not reading a book in a community center or like in a bookstore, you can't see other people's ambitions.
Can't.
Because they're like in the. They in that. Just like you are trying to figure out whatever they trying to figure out how to make. How to. How to commit a murder, not get caught, like, whatever. Trying to figure out whatever they trying to figure out how to make how to. How to commit a murder, not get caught. Like whatever, how to scam or how to be a nurse or whatever. Whatever.
It is.
Like you don't get to experience that when you are. I call them a character like they don't got skill sets or how to be a nurse or whatever.
It is.
Like you don't get people's s. It's a difference. Like we both appreciate both of y' all because we know y' all the same experience that when you are. I call them a character. Like they can't. They don't got skill sets. People say it's a difference. Like we, we both appreciate both of y' all because we know y' all are soft spoken. Y' all don't do a lot of interviews, but y' all still a people person, though. You still know how to have dialogue, you know how to outspoken. Y' all don't do a lot of interviews, but y' all still a people person, though. You still know how to have dialogue, you know how to have conversations, you know how to carry conversations. You just prefer not to be bothered, you know what I'm saying? But there's. There's individuals who don't know how to carry out conversations, you know how to carry conversations. You just prefer not to be bothered conversations and. Or relationships because they kind of really came to life. You know what I'm saying? But there is, there's individuals who don't know how to carry conversations and. Or relationships because they kind of really came to life doing the caricature of this part of Ty through social media being doing the caricature of this part of Ty through social media being so heavy and you can talk to people.
For years and not even that social media kicked in a curse. Yes, I Mean, I grew up. I mean, I'm 41, so you know, my era is the 90s and especially in Miami, we didn't have the Internet as like a main focus. Not just everybody at the time didn't have the Internet as the main focus, but like for us it was like, how do you meet like minded people? You know, you went and showed up to certain things out here, like something like Fatlands on the beach or whatever, like 96, 97, you know, it was like you would show up to these things and like, that's how you met people. And what's the version of that now for like, for like the youth and you know, I feel like he's like, you know, late, late 20s and shit. They version that's Tumblr, you know. Now these young kids, it's like, it's TikTok, you know, and like it's what, how do you, how do you do that in real life? And like, I think, I think that was the idea for Shop. It was like give them a place to come and be a community and like, like, you know, not just they stuck in their house, just like clicking through shit as opposed to like being around people, learning how well, seeing these, these things that they're referencing and like using as, as inspiration in person and then meeting people that like it as well that they can go back and forth on. It's not just, not just through the comments or whatever, you know.
Yeah, I'm pissed, man. We should did this shit at the shop, man. That's what I'm thinking about. We should do this shit at the motherfucking shop.
I think the time, the time is right.
Right, right, right. Another thing man, you was speaking about, you was like. Cause I was like, man, I don't want to fucking deal with no new artist. You was like, yeah, man. Like how you even go about breaking the artist, how you even go about telling the story and you touching on something? You know, it just automatically hit me. Cause I was just talking about this the other day. It's about finding the places in real life. Real life. Real life is how you break artists now. Finding ways to tell stories through cost efficient creative ways in real life.
Right.
If you like. Because all I do is think about the old school way of breaking artists. So I'm like, oh, nobody's doing those showcases where all the labels will come out and watch an artist perform. I'm gonna do that now. I do this new artist, I'm gonna create. I'm gonna recreate that womanhouse press and Whip Something that's 75 people. Everybody's sweaty. And turn the heat up in that bitch. Everybody getting that. They like why it's so hot in here. And remake these moments when you first discover the artist for the first time, right? And then take it photo, photo, photo, photo. And share that shit on the Internet all over. Make it seem like it was a thousand people in that bitch. Right? And I think that's the new way on social media. Standing out is like thinking about, okay, we're not gonna start nothing on the Internet outside of the stuff. You just can't like dsps and that type of shit. But the real cultural marketing element, lifestyle marketing element, I think it's so big and important now for a lot of those different things because the artists that are breaking. We were talking about Sexy Red, like her music videos. I seen the. The one with the scat. The scat. That was so hard. I was like, damn, this, look who shot this. You know what I'm saying? With VHS and they. They driving the damn Dodge Charger, whatever. The scat pads, whatever the is. But it made me feel like I was in St. Louis. I'm like, damn, this what they be doing in St. Louis. She could have shot that shit in Miami. All I know, it felt like where she was from, it felt like I was getting the peak of like what they be doing in St. Louis with nobody with no camera, what outside looks like. Yeah, I miss that. I miss.
I mean, I think it still happens in certain side, but there's a lot of. A lot of it where kind of where you don't even know where people from anymore. Yes. When we grew up, it was like, you know, we had this connect to. It was like New York, Louisiana, Atlanta, Dallas, you know, Texas, Houston, whatever, you know, us, like, we had our thing, you know, with bass music and all that, like. And it trick later on. But like, it just. Yeah, like, I missed. I missed a lot of that. You know, it's like creating those moments in real life is definitely, I think, where it's at moving forward. I feel like kids are going, they gonna miss that. It's too much Internet.
They don't even know that. They miss it because they haven't really experienced it.
Yeah.
So when they can come in and experience it, they're like, I remember when we first started having the first Saunders show, right. And what made the Saunders band show different from Britt Solo is like if anybody caught those Sonder bands show, that shit was like, Joseph like the way like that shit was like, Joseph, nigga. Brent used to be humping the motherfucking fucking mic stand. It was some wild shit. That one of the girls was like, yo, I felt like how my mom used to talk about Jodeci when I went to their song show. And I was like, yeah, it was completely different than his solo show. To the point, like, one of our homegirls, she was like, older. She was like, oh, my God. Oh, my God, what is this? What is this? I was like, yeah, this shit. Like, Jody said, this shit be sweaty. Like, super, super, super sweaty. And this motherfucker on the motherfucker humping the fucking stage. The band hit that doot, doot, doot, doot, doot, doot.
Ow.
So real sweaty. D' Angelo type shit. But, like, that was one of those things that kids that experience that that's the closest they're gonna get to Joseph.
That. I remember people not even knowing that Sandra and Grand Fiat was like, the same person, that people assumed that Sandra was something completely different.
And I was.
I always wondered why. And I was like, there was some type of disconnect, separation. But that's exciting, right? Like, you're so excited about this, about this artist that you want to learn more and discover that. My guy, I like his music too.
It was on purpose.
It felt intentional.
Yeah, it was on purpose.
It was on purpose. It was that mysterious without a little purpose. Right, right, right.
But that's another part, like, and I want to end this on what we started it as. Like, back to school, where you want to break as a new artist, you gotta go back to school. Because school teaches you the history, right? Education teaches you the history. Because that's how we learn and figure out, can I take something from the history, apply it to the past? Like you said, no idea is new. History repeats itself. How can we take what has already happened and reinvent it and break through?
Don't be afraid of history. I don't be afraid of history.
Can be afraid.
Yeah.
So that's. That's. And that is like a very, very great point to end, though. Reese, I appreciate you, my brother. Thank you, Mark, always. I appreciate you for coming, man. And that's all. That's our ninth episode.
Yeah. Yeah.
Episode nine. Fuck you, Money Then Season two.
So thank you guys again, but you can come to the shop. Got get some books in the shop too, man. Yes.
Yeah, you gotta load up, man. I just ordered a thousand. We put that order in yet? Order a thousand for the trunk. We're gonna drop 100 up in East Point at the trap house at East Point. All trap house different now.
It's all clean money.
No money dirty. This is all clean money. I was talking to Gilly about it earlier. It's all clean money. This is. This money is STD free. This money is not dirty. But for real, I appreciate y'.
All.
