Building Resiliency In Times Of Uncertainty With Garry Ridge

Life happens, and not always the way we expect it to. Every single day we face change, stress, and uncertainty. What if you could learn to thrive no matter what life throws your way? Resilience expert Adam Barkel and his inspiring guests explore breakthrough strategies to fully embrace change and build the resilience required to become change.

Proof. Hey everybody, it's Adam Markell. And welcome back to another episode of Change Proof. I today have just a wonderful honor of interviewing somebody that I've known for a couple years. We got introduced through mutual friend and I've been admiring his work for many, many years. He's just done a tremendous job as a leader and I want to start by reading his bio and then we're going to spend some time digging into some pretty difficult concepts. Nothing eas, which is good because it'll be meaningful. Gary Ridge is the chairman and CEO of WD40 company. He joined WD40 in 1987 and held various leadership positions in the company before being appointed to CEO in 1997. He's also an adjunct professor at the University of San Diego, where he teaches the principles and practices of corporate culture in the Master of Science in Executive Leadership program. He is passionate about learning and empowering organizational culture that he has established at WD40 for a long while now. In 2009, he co authored a book with Ken Blanchard outlining his effective leadership techniques titled Helping People Win at Work, A Business Philosophy called Don't Mark My Paper, Help Me get an A. I love that. He's also a native of Australia, as you might gather when you hear him speak. Gary, it's just a pleasure as always to get together with you. Thanks for being a guest on the show.

G', Day, Adam. It's absolutely a delight to be here. And I have to, as I said before, my real introduction is, hi, I'm Gary Ridge. I'm the consciously incompetent, probably wrong and roughly right chairman and CEO of WD40 company.

Well, as you can already tell folks, if you if you don't know Gary, and I hope you, you will get to know him not just through this podcast, but in following him on LinkedIn and other places, you will see he is a man. Humility. And it's not a thing you always find in somebody at the level of leadership that he's at. So I so appreciate that about you, Gary. You know what, let's just dive in right there. How important do you think humility is if you think it's important in a leader?

Oh, today more than ever, Adam, you know, I Often say that leadership fails when ego eats empathy instead of empathy eating ego. And particularly in the last couple of years when, you know, our job as leaders has been to bring people together as the world has pushed them apart. And that's been a wonderful opportunity for us at WD40. You know, we have a promise, a tribal promise, which is a group of people that come together to protect and feed each other. And this journey, as disappointing as it's been to the world, has been one of tremendous learning, and I think we're better for it. And maybe, maybe we were gifted. This awful experience to really wake us up in a number of ways.

Indeed, you've had to be resilient. Is that fair to say?

Yes, absolutely. I think resilience is. You know, I found a really interesting definition that I like about uncertainty, and it became more and more real to me going through Covid. And it is a series of future events that may or may not occur, and in fact, most of them don't occur. So I think part of the resilience has been really understanding what it is that we need to focus on during these times, because we could get disrupted very easily.

Isn't that the truth? I mean, I think disruption is more the norm than it is the exception. I think it's always been the case, but more these days than ever before. So do you have a personal definition or even a corporate definition for resilience that you. You can share with us?

I don't know that we have an absolute definition, but I would. I would suggest that it's. It's us, you know, really being able to understand the situation we're in and make conscious decisions around what we need to do. You know, I was lucky enough you sent me an early copy of your new book and congratulations on change Proof. And I'm a big fan of Winston Churchill. And I love this quote that's in there. You wrote when I. And this is a Churchill quote. When I look back on all the worries, I remember the story of an old man who said on his deathbed that he had a lot of trouble in his life, most of which it had never happened. And to me, it's like, you know, well, there's a lot of resilience in thinking about that as well. But I just thought that was a great reflection on, you know, making sure that we. We get rid of the clutter. We, as you say, you pause, ask, and choose.

Worry is, you know, it's so interesting you think about resilience. We can define it. We'll define it. Of course. And my experience is, as many people as you ask that question, how do you define it? Resilience. That is, you'll get that many independent, different definitions of it, of course. But one thing that we also. I think it's important to talk about is what defeats or gets in the way of resilience. And you brought something up, I think, right out of the gate, which is important, and that is worrying. So you've got a lot on your plate. You know, you have a long history with this company. This company has been a model of longevity and resilience and has done quite well and certainly has done very well under your stewardship. How important, with everything that's always been going on in that. In that arena, how important has worry been to you or has it gotten in the way, do you think?

Well, you know, I'd like to separate worry from fear, because I think that fear is something that really fuels worry. And, you know, what is worry? You know, people often ask me what keeps me awake at night. And I think that's a really interesting question, because if it's keeping you awake at night, I don't think you've thought it through. I mean, the world's not perfect. And one of the things that became really clear to me during COVID is in times of real and great need, people can pivot around fear. Or there's that word, pivot. People can pivot around fear. And I'll give you an example of that. You know, before COVID hit and, you know, March last, in March 2020, when Covid hit, it was like, turn off the light switch. There were so many things that were once optional that are now became compulsory. And one of them was working virtually, and we had, you know, installed and equipped our tribe to have the virtual tools they needed. But they were fearful of using them because it wasn't the norm. You know, they worried about how people would see them. They worried whether they would look good. They worried about all this stuff that didn't really matter. It became compulsory. And suddenly we had to pivot around that fear and not worry about the dog walking in or barking or, you know, something going on. And we became competent around that. So I think if we can work out, how do we work out what's making us afraid that's making us worry. And if we can move that, we become much more competent and actually much more resilient in what we do.

Yeah. Wow, that's fascinating. My history is I spent 18 years in the legal profession before I pivoted. And. And in Much of that time I used to say things like, you can't win without worry. I used to actually tell my clients that I worried. I was a professional worrier. I worried for them. That was part of my, you know, what I got paid to do is take on their worries and all. I really don't. In this, at this juncture in my life and over many, many years and now thinking about it in writing and researching on it too, I feel like worrying in many ways is, is energy wasted. It's energy depleting. And it is, as you say, rooted in fear. So if we pivot around that fear, what ends up happening is that those worries don't have to keep us up at night, it seems.

So, yeah, well, you know, we know what, you know, world blue. Tracy Fenton, who says, what would you do if you weren't afraid? And that's, that's an interesting question. I've used that a number of times with some of our leaders where they're, they're, you know, stalling on making a decision or so. Well, what are you afraid of? And what would you do if you weren't afraid? And now what would you, what will you do? So again, just bringing these things down. It's amazing how many things we're not afraid of if we really face them and go, well, you know, okay, do I have, do I have the right to be afraid about that? Do I have. Is worry going to. Worry doesn't do anything. It's such a negative place to be. That doesn't mean you shouldn't be concerned. That's a difference between worry and concern. You know, as we went through Covid, I was concerned. I was concerned because there was uncertainty. This series of future events that may or may not occur, most of which don't. And I spent a lot of time really, if you know, sorting out the possibilities of these events happening or not happening. And then where does your energy go against the ones that you know? Well, there's a chance that this could happen. How are we going to protect ourselves? How are we going to, you know, work around this? That may happen.

Indeed. And that's the, that Winston Churchill quote, which I think is also based on Mark Twain's sort of take the, the tongue in cheek take on that as well. Is there, there is this ever present uncertainty. I'm curious, how has uncertainty impacted WD40? Now, obviously you brought us back to the start of COVID and that the, that was just the beginning. I think what I hear when I'm speaking with organizations, I get this Great honor of keynoting and getting invited like you do to speak to organizations on a regular basis. Uncertainty is something I hear constantly that people are. And I think people just were waiting and were anticipating that somehow the uncertainty would come to some sort of a head or would end or we'd be going back to something that resembled the past. So I'm curious, inside of WD40, what has uncertainty looked like and how has the company been dealing with that?

Well, yeah, you know, when this first broke back in March 2020, you know, in fact, I was in Italy at the time on my way to our half yearly meeting in Europe. And I felt a bit like Indiana Jones having this, this, you know, Boulder chasing me with COVID And, and I'm, I, I think when it broke and would really got serious, I didn't think any of us thought it would have the longevity that it had because there was a lot that we didn't know. And so I think initially it was, whoa, okay, what do we do? I'm uncertain. You know, we went through a process of, you know, secure reset, revive and thrive were kind of what we looked at. So the first thing we did was we need to secure the business, you know. And so we came out and we said, we have three clear objectives from day one. We activated our global issue response leadership team. We said, here are three things we're going to focus on. The safety and the well being of our tribe, taking care of our customers and securing our business to thrive in the future. But as we went through, I think the uncertainty got worse because suddenly it was becoming real. We're going to be in this. You know, this was at that stage we thought, well, maybe it's a sprint. Then it became a marathon and then it turned into multiple marathons along the way. Fortunately, you know, we got, we got to learn as we went. And being a global company, as you know, things were pinging all around the world. You know, it's interesting to talk to people just in the United States who didn't understand what was going on in other places around the world. You know, we have a subsidiary in mainland China. It hit there first, so we were seeing what happened and then as it went through other geographic locations, so the uncertainty was real. However, I think then we got comfortable, a little bit comfortable with it and saying, okay, the world's probably not going to come to an end. What do we need to do? How do we need to focus? And that was really the. And coming back is interesting too because as we've sort of coming out of this little bit. You can't turn that light switch back on again. It's like a dimmer switch. We've got to turn it up. And actually we turn it back a little bit because if we turn the switch back on again, people get blindsided. It's like, ah, what's, you know, bright light in my eyes. So it's certainly been a journey. And the other thing is people have been going through their own hero's journey. The person we said see you Monday morning to back in March 2020 is not the same person we're getting to personally interact with again in October and November of 2021. And as leaders, we have to invest in making sure that we get that little catch up done. So we got to be asking, how are you personally? You know, we kept connected a lot virtually, but we got to keep asking, how are you and what's gone on in your life? And you know, are you okay? I mean, just asking, are you okay?

That is such a powerful point that you just brought up, Gary, because in the discussions that I've been having, even with the Marines, I was privileged to deliver a workshop to a group of young Marines, and then in the morning a couple of weeks ago, and then in the afternoon the same day to their senior leaders. The are you okay? Is not culturally sort of a thing in many branches of the U.S. military. And it's becoming the case because they are as to use your word, more conscious of the long term and even the short term impact of stress and of exhaustion and burnout, dare I say it, in their ranks as well. So I'd love to. And from our standpoint, we look at resilience as a way to become stronger, as a way to actually use leverage, even the uncertainty itself, as a catalyst for growth, individual growth, organizational growth, that requires a sort of understanding of what resilience is and what contributes to greater resilience and what actually gets in the way. And one of the things that get in the way in the military is this sort of not feeling permission to speak honestly and transparently about where you are. So for a leader to actually ask the people in the organization, how you doing? And not the gratuitous how you doing? Because if you ask somebody on the street, right, how you doing? They're gonna say, good, you know, hanging in there, you know, how you doing? And. And there isn't a depth to that inquiry. So it sounds to me like that's what you did. You, you were asking your people, how are you actually doing in your personal life as well, as just, you know, fulfilling your. Your, you know, your business role.

Yeah. You know, as, you know, you know, we've got a very high employee engagement, or what I call the will of the people. And during COVID there was some research done by the ADP research group that showed that employee engagement globally dropped down to 16%. Now ours is 93. So halfway through Covid, you know, we were doing everything we can could to ensure that we kept that cultural equity high by a whole lot of fun things that we would do and connecting things that we would do. And halfway through Covid, I said, you know, we need to go out and just do a midterm employee feedback survey and see if we can capture any areas where we're failing our people. Are we not connecting? So we went out and we redid our employee engagement survey. You know, we do it in seven languages and, you know, across the world, it's confidential. Anyhow, the numbers came back, and they were as good as or better than they were before COVID which we just done a survey in March 2020. But one of the numbers that changed that I had to dig into was a question we ask, and it is. I am excited about the company's future. And it came back as 98% of our tribe globally, they said they were excited about the company's future. Now, Adam, here we were in the middle of COVID right. There was not signs yet of us being able to see a new world. So we did a little digging, and we wanted to find out why. And what came back very clearly was we are living our tribal promise of a group of people that come together and to protect each other. We feel safe in this environment, and if we can get through this together, we can get through anything together.

Yes.

And it was like, okay. And I thought, my God, I would just hate to be trying to lead an organization through this that entered with a very low employee engagement. Because there's a lot of talk right.

Now, Adam, about, you know, great resignation. Yeah.

I've renamed it. It's not the great Resignation. Here's what it is. It's the great escape. Yeah. People are escaping from organizations where they don't feel they belong. They're not treated with respect and dignity. They don't go to work each day knowing they're making a contribution to something bigger than themselves. They. They're not learning. They're not being protected and set free by a compelling set of values, and they're not going home happy. So it's not the great resignation. Anybody I talk to who's moving from one organization to others. I've had it. I just can't put up with this toxic environment anymore. And this has proven to me there must be something better. So this is the Great escape. That's what it is.

It's interesting, do you think, Gary, that in the time that people had at home, because I went through a period in my career where I used to commute and commuting, living in, in, in and around New York and my office was in the city, was in Manhattan. And so living in the suburbs, commute was an hour and a half or two hours each way each day. So that's, you know, three, four, four hours more likely each day, 20 hours a week of just being in the car and commuting. And, and so I, you know, the, the being home, while that was new and different and a challenge for folks at the beginning, do you think that people just were able to kind of come back to themselves, as my dad would say? They, they had the time to contemplate the time to recognize that they actually enjoyed that time at home, maybe time with their kids, maybe they were able to be at the dinner table. They were able to see how, how they could in fact integrate work and, and, and home life. I know that presents its own challenges where there's no boundaries between the two. But you think that that'. Escape, that people have just realized that they can have more of what's important to them in life?

Well, particularly about the working from home. I think it depends. I think it depends what their environment is at home. You know, if you're in United States and you've got, you know, room in your house to be able to find a place to work, but you know, we've got people living in places like London and Shanghai and you know, there's no. Nowhere to put a desk and nowhere to put a computer and nowhere to work. And one of the things that became clear to us real early is we had to find out how we could help people find a place to be able to work if they had to work from home. Sure. So, you know, I think it depends.

And whether the great escape a thing that you're seeing elsewhere in the world, because at least at this point I've been reading, it's mostly, I mean, I'm hearing it's mostly in the context of the US but are you seeing some similar things happening elsewhere too?

Not so much, not so much in more of the relationship driven cultures like in Europe, Italy, France, Spain, where relationships are so important and they work on Them so hard versus the US which is more of a direct type culture. I think it's more dominant here than anywhere else right now. So, you know, I think that more so people said it's not that I'm not at the office, but now that I'm not there, look at the way they're treating me. Look at the way, you know, I could. At least when I went there I was able to find some belonging. And this really gets back to this thing about belonging. You know, as human beings, one of the most dominant things we have is the desire to belong.

Right.

And I know that some people missed going to the office because they didn't like being at home. They wanted to belong to their people and their tribe. And it's interesting right now I was just reading some stuff the other day from the Society of Human Resource Management, and they're all talking about the power of the importance of belonging now. Well, Maslow, in his hierarchy of self actualization has it as the third rung and it's been there for many years. Organizations provide safety, security and a means to feed your family. Most of them do that. The next one is belonging. And when an organization actually provides that belonging, that's when you really start to get a high engagement, a high will.

Of the people, indeed, the connection. And that's so enlightening to me to just hear that because when the connection piece or that, that the tribe, that the family piece of it was taken out. You're right. People do. Well, what exactly am I getting out of this? If, If I don't, you know, feel that and all I'm, you know, but I'm feeling other things. Things that are not necessarily, you know, share is showing me or, or I'm not, I'm not feeling taken care of that.

That's interesting. I've been observing, you know, we just. After labor day in the U.S. we opened the TP, you know, we call out because we're a tribe, we call it. You've been to visit. You know what it's like. Yes. And we said, and I said we are going to make our place as safe or safer than anywhere else you would choose to go. So if you want to come back in, it's totally your decision. If you're vaccinated, you know, you don't have to wear a mask. If you're not, you have to wear a mask. You know, we had all the protocols in place to meet everything that has to happen. And you know, we've had people and then we also. We're really Challenging ourselves around people saying we have to. Not internally, externally. People say you have to have a work from home policy. I said, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. We're not going to have a work from home policy. We're going to have a work from where philosophy because people are not just working from home. What became very clear to me, they were working from anywhere, you know, anywhere. And so we said, we're going to let people make their own decisions where they work from. We're not going to have them have to go and crack up the hierarchy to their boss or their leader to get permission. We want them to use our values to make a decision of where they should be working at the time. So anyhow, I've been going in to the office probably three days a week. I'd be there all the time. But I want to set the example. I want to say, okay, you can be flexible. And I tell you, Adam, I got goosebumps just observing our tribe members come together in some of our collision zone areas that you'll aware of. And they were just so happy to see each other. And they sit and talk and. And they left. And I see them leaving the building with a smile because they've. They've reconnected with the people they. They love and they care about.

Right.

Which was just amazing.

Makes the job so much more than. Than the money or even. Even the responsibility or even the other fulfilling things that they do in a day. It's, It's. It's more holistic than that. We're more. We're holistic. So it's. It's never sort of just one thing. You know, it's funny, I was thinking about you a couple of weeks ago, Gary, because I, When I went to visit the office and I heard that term for the first time, the collision zones. And I saw it. Didn't just hear it. I saw it in the. In the architecture. Because you guys designed that building for that purpose. In many ways. For people that don't know what. What we mean, it literally means areas where people can come together without sort of planning it or, you know, just it happening spontaneously that you kind of run into somebody. And, And I was doing a bit of research on this concept of weak ties, which you probably have heard of. And know what this is, this idea that right now that whole water cooler connection has been lost and where innovation often occurs that you can't plan for. I mean, you can plan in the way that you plan for it, but you can't sort of predict it or Measure it in some ways, is that people will run into each other in there. They don't have strong ties to one another because they don't work in the same department. You know, somebody from accounting is meaning running into somebody from hr, from operations or what have you, and they collide, you know, not physically, but they're in the same proximity to one another and have a conversation about something, and then all of a sudden there's some idea that is birthed out of that. There's some innovation that occurs.

Yeah, yeah, you have those. Oh, what about. What if. Have you thought of, you know, kind of conversation? But it's really interesting because as we're talking about this, the slide that's up behind you there says resilience is how we. You recharge.

Yes.

And what we're talking about now is actually people personally recharging.

Indeed. Yeah.

It's so needed.

Well, resilience for so many people, I think. And I'll put it up another slide. This is kind of funny, but, you know, I think folks define it more often than not as this capacity to bounce back. That's what we hear. That's what the book, you know, change Proof, I think, is debunking a little bit of this myth that it's. It's about bouncing back. It really is more about the process by which we. We recharge more than it is the process of endurance or enduring, as you say. If what we're doing is running a single marathon, yeah, we could create the perfect environment for training for that task, but it's not one marathon. It's like saying at the beginning, as you did, that, you know, that there's one disruption or that this is the greatest disruption that any of us in our personal or professional lives will ever face. I mean, this is a day in the norm, and tomorrow will be this, you know, be another day in the. In a year from now. So, you know, to know that since the race has no end, so to speak, it's one endless, beautiful marathon. What the research is clear on is that to be. To have longevity and performance capacity at high levels over time, we have to have rituals for our reset. The word used earlier.

Yeah, yeah. And it's so clear that. So the other thing that was really clear to us, too, is not talking about what we're going to do, but talking about why we are doing it. And I think that was when we were, you know, in having times of rapid, sort of changing times during COVID It's not like this is what we're going to do. It's this is why we're doing what we're doing. Is everybody understand the why? You know, you know how much I I admire Simon sine gets you know, why, how what so you know, it's not what we're going to do, it's why we're doing it now. This is how we think we're going to do it. And then asking our teams and tribes do you think this is the how that we should do or is there a better way or what have you learned with this? Which I think is really important.

You know, it's interesting when you said that I'm going to be self serving here for a moment but I'm really, truly observing this in the moment. I just want to enthusiastically say it out loud. I love Simon's book and I love that the way he, he describes those three things you brought up pause, ask, choose earlier that comes from, from change proof. It's that concept of what do you do with the pause. You pause is its own reset. In many ways it's its own benefit to just pause like before you hit send on an email or you react to something. As a father of four, I can say pausing has been, has held me, you know, in good stead for a long time. But the ask, the asking the why, as you pointed out, to pause to ask why. Why are we doing what we're doing before we choose that next, that next step. I'm just observing the, the way those two things overlaid nicely.

They do. And I, you know, I, I as I said, I was fortunate enough. Thank you. You sent me a pre PDS to, to kind of review and I love the pause, ask, choose. I mean that makes so much sense. So many times we don't pause, we rush in. So many times we don't ask is there a better way? And so many times we don't realize we have a choice. And I think it's so powerful and I can't wait for the book to get out there so others can can benefit from it. It's just really exciting.

You assessed your thank. Thank you so much. I want to go back to the assessment that you, that you sent out that survey too. Was there anything in the survey that you noticed that you thought you had some concern about or you know, you tilted your head, went. That's interesting. Was there anything that came up like that? Did you recall?

Yeah. The other thing that was that I thought was really interesting was that we have one question that talks about communication between our coaches and our tribe members. And again, it was a pleasing thing because I thought that being virtual, that opportunity of communication in its intensity may have dropped, but it actually went up. And I think for two reasons. I can't prove this, this is just Rejohnian theory right now, but I think the receivers were more tuned in than ever before. I mean, the people that we wanted, our tribe were more tuned in. You know, I sometimes think about communication as here's a radio station that's sending out a signal and here's a receiver that's receiving it and there's a lot of interference in the middle. And if you don't have the radio finely tuned, you won't get the, you know, the, the clarity of the, of the message. And I think during this time people were more tuned in to receiving the messages that we were sending because there was so much going on that was uncertain, that they had a deeper interest in, you know, like in any change, in any change. The first two things people think about are personal concerns and information concerns. So how is this personally going to affect me and what information do I need to give me a sense of security? And I think that we're more tuned in than ever before, for sure.

And there's no question that certainly in times of uncertainty or change there's, people feel stressed. And we know that to be able to think, quote outside the box or just be strategic in your thinking is never the strategy or thinking strategically. And reacting out of stress are things that are almost mutually exclusive. So you know, I'd love to find out more about how the, how you're approaching the. That, that check in phase or what it is that, that you are recommending for, for people inside the company for their, their dealing with that stress, dealing with this ever present. I mean it's, it seems like the company is, is faring if I say it better than a lot, a lot of companies. I mean we've presented for the likes of Home Depot on one side and a company called Vogue Tire. It's been around for 107 years. Based in Chicago on the others are small but successful company, very large successful enterprise and everything in between. The SAP's, the equitables, whoever it is, everybody seems to be exhausted. And when asked often the exhaustion is bordering on burnout. In some places it's not because the company is struggling. Most of these companies are doing better than they've ever done before. Kraft Foods. I mean, I have a friend that's been working there forever. More people buying food than there's ever been. I mean, so the Numbers are great. Companies are doing phenomenally well and yet I kind of liken it in some ways to like in Formula one racing where, you know, you can't, you cannot drive one of those high performance cars quickly, fast, win a race on bald tires. And so there's this element of maybe there's some folks that are feeling like their tires are getting bald in the process of keeping up with, you know, the supply chain issues and other changes and other disruptions and things that are there. So is there some intentional work that you are considering or already engaged in to help people in the company be more resilient, mentally, emotionally, physically, even spiritually? And by that I mean just more in terms of their alignment between what's really important, their values and what they do at work as well. Is there something like that that's kind of an initiative within the company already?

Well, you know, as you know, Adam, we, when we talk about the spiritual, emotional, that's been a big part of us going in. So I think a lot of companies as, as I said earlier, if they went in with low employee engagement, which really means that there are no values protecting them. They're not having a feeling of belonging. They're not, you know, they don't have ball tyres, they got no tyres, they're running on rims, they're running on rims, they're running on rims. But on the other side of it, we've through the whole year done a lot of work around ensuring people and setting the example with people to say, okay, let's prioritize, we can't do it all, so what's important, what's less important and then really saying take your time off, please. We've had a number of workshops in the organization. We had Chester Elton and Adrian Gosnik come along and do a couple of sessions on gratitude and anxiety at work. Really facing the things that are facing people, giving them tools to be able to try and understand what's really affecting them is really important. So we gave everybody in the company a subscription to the, the app. Oh, calm.

The Comac or Com app.

Yes. Yeah, yeah. Love it, love it, love it. So we, we gave everybody a subscription to that and did workshops on how may you use this and, and what should you do. So I don't think other than turning up the volume around the things that were important to us, that's what's carried us through. And you're right, we just had the best year in 68 year history. The, the company, our revenues were up 19%, our profits were up 16%. We've just paid out the largest growth rewards to our people. Our employee engagement is higher than ever before. They're more excited about the future than ever before. However they. There's a lot of. There is a lot of pressure particularly as you say in supply chain that hasn't been easy so but I think again, you know empathy is important, you know showing people we care. As you know I send out a daily message every morning to the tribe one of inspiration and I didn't. Encouragement. Yeah. Every day. Every morning. It's for today from unfortunately it's been four today from Poway too often in the last two years but you know it's wherever I am in the world. We were sending, you know weekly updates and video updates to our tribe. Just you know, transparency, you know, telling them the truth loudly. This is where we are. You don't. I love. You know when Brene Brown says in the absence of facts and data people make up stories.

Yes.

And that, that is something that's on my mind all the time. And, and then asking yourself as a leader am I being the person I want to be right now? And I ask myself that many times a day and you know, I ask myself what and so what do I want to be? I want to be caring, I want to be empathetic, I want to be reasonable. I want to be a listener. I want to be fact based. I want to be balanced. I want to be a curious learner and I have to ask myself that more during COVID because the COVID hook would have pulled me off that road very easily and I had, I found myself keeping. I had to keep coming back. Coming back. No, you don't want to be out there. This is where you feel comfortable and doing this with all our leadership group as well. So awareness of where you are, I.

Think that's a bit of the way you're baked if I might say that too because you're a teacher, you're an adjunct professor and it feels to me like you are more bought into the value of constant never ending improvement of learning of for individual develop personal development as well as business development than maybe some folks are. Are you, you're teaching your. Are you still teaching your class now virtually?

Yeah, well, no, we actually we taught it in person just a month or two ago. One of the first things we did in our. In our tepee we held the class at the teepee so but the year before we did it virtually which was another wonderful experience. We know we had to with my co teacher Dr. Janice Thompson. We had to take our syllabus and turn it into a virtual program, which was a great learning experience. I tell you, I was pretty scared. Yeah, I was pretty scared at the beginning, but, you know, it worked out pretty well.

So, yeah, as we wrap up, I so appreciate this conversation. You know, uncertainty isn't going anywhere. And our response to uncertainty, I think, is really in part what we're talking about. But I think there's more. The uncertainty and the lack of a lot of clarity, I think, in the world is just on a macro level, I think is taking a toll on people in a way that we have not seen before. This has been a truly global, a global event. And I think that being the case, making it for other leaders like yourself, making an impact in terms of the organization is more important than it's ever been. It can't be lip service. I put something up on the screen. Not, not everybody is going to be watching this on YouTube. Some folks are just listening to it. But there's sort of three things that, that I pulled out of a recent case study of a business that was dealing with this uncertainty. And the three things were that first things have to be tangible. It's great to talk about stuff, but if they're not put into motion, you could have talked about collision zones till you were blue in the face, but if you didn't redesign your offices to create that, it wouldn't, it wouldn't be living and breathing in the culture that. So you go, okay, so there's. It's tangible. Not, not just something that's get, you know, gets written, put in a frame and, and put in, you know, put in the break room or something. A break room people aren't in. Now that two, we have to try stuff. And that means failing often failing to find out. And I'm sure you've had your, your share of fail to find out along the way. In fact, I might, I might ask you to share one of those just before we, before we depart, because I think it's always important to get a sense of how people who are in successful enterprises have dealt with, you know, even a small or modest failure or something larger too. So failing to find out. And lastly, taking the time, which is what you said earlier, to check in with people and to genuinely care, which is then, you know, having those uncomfortable conversations. And uncomfortable in that you, you keep asking questions beyond the point of it being sort of just politeness. You're so curious. You want to know, like, how, how are things? How are you feeling? But how are you, you know, how things at home? What are you doing? What are you doing with your, with your time? Are you, are you actually taking time away? Are you, are you doing things for your body, for your mental reset? So, for example, on the resilience side of things, we believe in a recovery map, a simple process where people in those four areas, mental, emotional, physical, spiritual, can do something several times a day that could be as little as 30 seconds or a minute on up to sort of 25 or 30 minutes the longest, to create a recovery zone for themselves. And, and so again, exploring and asking questions about what people, what their person's rituals are, what their habits are so that you get a greater sense of whether they're. They are in fact riding on. On good tires or whether the tires are bald. And they either don't, you know, maybe they know it or maybe they don't know it. Right. So, you know, Gary, I'd love to get a sense of, first of all, is, is there a recent sort of challenge that you. That you faced? And I'd love to get a sense of how you dealt with it. And then lastly, what are, what are some of the. Or even one ritual that you have for your own personal recovery, given the fact that you're, you're taking. Looking after a global organization, that's no easy.

Yeah, thanks. Well, you know, the willingness to fail, as you can find out, as you know, we've never made a mistake ever. At our company, we took the word failure out and we replaced it with learning moments, as you might recall. So we don't make mistakes. We have learning moments. And a learning moment is a positive or negative outcome of any situation that has to be openly and freely shared to benefit all people. So I think just that simple change in definition of failure has paid off so, so well for us. And, you know, I. We'd be here for months if I was to tell you all the learning moments I've had over time. One of the, One of the things that I was born with, I'll thank my parents for is I don't remember bad very well, which, you know, I often think, do what you think is right, do your best, and then make peace with it. Let it go. Because if you don't, and I think that was one of the big learnings that I had during COVID is, you know, look at our values, do what we think is right, do your best and let it go and move on. Because if you don't, you'll get bogged down, which I think is Something that is where you don't want to be. Right.

So feedback is vital and, and the recovery. So last thing is, there's something that you do on a. On a ritual basis, even on a, you know, a daily basis.

Yeah. I have my daily questions and I ask myself, did I do my best to. Did I do my best to make clear goals, achieve those goals? Did I do my best to find meaning? Did I do my best to walk my 10,000 steps? Did I do my best to listen? Did I do my best to reach out to family? Did I do my best. So I asked myself these questions. Not whatever, but did I do my best to. And I, and I. And I grade myself, you know, yes or no. And if I didn't, then, you know, well, then I need to refocus again. So. I love the daily questions.

Yeah, they are. I have a code of conduct that resembles that in a different way. It seems like we all have very similar things that are in this, you know, a signpost for how you. For how you're doing in a particular day.

Yeah.

So that you can, you can again take the feedback and pivot recalibrate as. As needed.

Well, because the world will rip us out if we let. Will absolutely rip us out. We've got to. We've got to recenter ourselves. So.

And everyone is well with you and your family?

Yes. I just became a granddad again. My daughter in Australia had a little baby girl and I haven't seen her yet. But I tell you what, I'll be on an aircraft on December 15, flying south to meet my new granddaughter.

Oh my goodness. That is just. Nothing in the world could be better. I can really relate to you now, sir, because I'm gonna pull. You guys are gonna have to go on YouTube to watch this. So you can see our little grand.

What's her name, boy?

Yeah, yeah, it's Nakoa. Named after my. My late grant father in law and. And Nakoa, which in Hawaiian translates to brave one.

Beautiful.

So it is beautiful. It's good to one.

You won't be able to see this, but I've gotta. I gotta show you mine as well.

Gorgeous.

Oh, I love that dress. My God. That's my. That's my little granddaughter. That's Chloe.

Oh, that's so beautiful.

Yeah.

Gary, nothing could be better, right? Really, it's been a blessing to have you on the show. I want to just say publicly your support for the book change proof is so appreciated. And again, I know how much you got going on in your world. So to take time to to read. But I know you're also a lifelong learner, so I hope the book also provided some insights for you. That would be my my highest hope. And again, thank you for being on the show today.

I love the pause, ask, choose. So I'm looking forward to getting my real copy.

I'm looking forward to it, too. All right, it's been a pleasure. And as always, we welcome your comments. You can go to AdamMarkel.com podcast to leave a comment. And again, have a blessed day. I hope wherever you are and whatever you're doing in this moment that you love your life, every bit of it, all of it, no matter what. That I think is the key. So I'm grateful in this moment as well. Ciao for now, everyone.

Thanks for listening, everyone. We hope you now have even more tools and greater insights to build resilience and become change proof. Help us inspire others by sharing this episode and leaving your comments over@adammarkelle.com podcast for more resilience tips and strategies, including support for building change proof teams, visit AdamMarkel.com BecomeChangeproof.