Communication Hacks To Make Our Lives Better With Dr. Julee Hafner

Welcome to the Conscious Pivot Podcast with international speaker, business mentor, best selling author of Pivot, and your host, Adam Markell. The Conscious Pivot shares the stories and wisdom of people who have successfully reinvented some area of their business and personal life. You'll gain powerful insights into how you can fully embrace new opportunities, increase your performance, and master the art and science of innovation and resilience. So please join Adam as he guides you on your Conscious Pivot share.

Hey, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Conscious Pivot Podcast. I'm your host, Adam Markell, and I feel incredibly blessed to be here with you all today and just enjoying being alive at this moment, feeling so lucky to be breathing, Knowing, of course, that that's not a guarantee all the time, as we all know that underneath the surface. But. But in my conscious thoughts, I'm not always so appreciative of the fact that it's just good to be alive. And more than anything, I know that we're all evolving. I'm always evolving. I'm always growing. If I'm not growing, then I'm dying. And so I feel in growth mode in this moment. I hope you do as well. I gotta believe you're only consuming this content because you yourself are in growth mode as well. So welcome to the show. I've got an incredible guest, somebody that I absolutely adore, that I get to spend some time with now. So selfishly, I get to do that. But I also have the honor to be able to share this individual with all of you and you'll get to learn from her. She is an incredible communicator. She's an amazing diagnostician, if that's a word. Somebody that can take a look at how we communicate, how I communicate, you communicate, and let you know where it is that you, you might be missing. Missing the mark. Or at least not. Speaking heroically in a way that moves other people is courageous. And there's a depth to that conversation that I really am interested in having today. So I'll jump right in with an amazing educator, speaker, author. Her name is Dr. Julie Haffner and I'm just thrilled to have her on the show today. So thank you, Dr. Haffner. It's so great to have you with us. Hello.

Thank you so much. Oh, my goodness. What a wonderful introduction. You're just. You're incredible. You're absolutely incredible. Thank you so much. And I'm loving being here and I'm very appreciative, for sure.

Wonderful. I was going to ask you what's One thing that you're grateful for in this moment, but I already answered it.

It's my telepathy. What can I tell you?

Telepathy. I am most grateful for my telepathy when. When it's turned on, I feel like we. This is not where I expected to start, but I'll go with it. Do you think that we all have telepathic powers of sort or abilities?

Well, I. You know, Adam, I really believe that every person is made up of energy. And we sense in the environment the energy that's there. We all are communicating constant. And whether it's a nonverbal, it's an energy like a telepathy type of information, we're communicating something every single day. No matter whether we just sit and stare into space or we're actually out there doing something fun.

Wow. We're all communicating every day. I mean, I don't know that anybody could or would argue against that. And some of that communication is verbal, like you said. It's things we say to people and. And some of it's nonverbal. So share a little bit about your background, because I want to dive into what nonverbal communication might look like and how is that communication different or could be different, so that our lives might be better different and even better in some ways. So, yes, share a little bit about background, if you would.

Well, let me just tell you, I'm. I've been a consultant speech pathologist, working with people, wide backgrounds and educational levels. I also have my PhD in leadership, so that's my educational background. But let me tell you, I'm a lifelong learner, and as such, I am interested in so many things. Personal wellness, professional and personal growth. And when you talk about communication, we really figure that everybody listens to the words, you know, and everybody's so interested in, oh, this is the message. But there's so much going on underneath the message that you just don't realize that's the nonverbal message that you're sending out all the time. And when we talk about nonverbal communication, we're talking about all those gestures at the eye contact and all the subtle parts of language. And in my book, the seven Tactics to Communication Completions, I go through all of those. I look at the seven tools that you can use to figure out what really is that message, not just what the words that the person is saying, what's underneath it, what parts do you need to be aware of and what things don't kind of connect. Why is it someone that you'd meet Immediately, right. In two seconds that you feel there's something about that person I'm not too sure about. That's our survival mode and that's our excitement going, you know, going on full tilt, saying, there's something about this person. I don't know what it is, what do I do? So that's all about non verbal communication, lots of stuff.

So we're constantly assessing. This is the way I look at it, that we're assessment machines, we're meaning making machines and we have to make meaning out of things for us to feel safe in the first instance. Right. I mean, we all want all these great things happening in our lives and we're working toward those things. But our basic, the basic instinct is our survival instinct. Right. You're looking at the noise in the bush and you're thinking, is that something that I'm going to eat or is that something that's going to eat me?

It's a filtering system, constantly taking incoming stimuli. And you're filtering, you're sorting it out and you're saying, what do I do with this? And, you know, think about it. We have millions and millions of messages that, that are coming into our brains every day. Whether it's the media, whether it's, you know, your, your conversation with me right now, those are all stimuli. What's going on in the background? Everything's, Everything's information. And how do we deal with all that stuff? It's. It's a challenge. It really is.

Yeah. So does that mean everybody's walking around sort of with their heads muddled with all this information, all this stimuli?

For some of us, yes. There are people that cannot decide how, what thing to listen to, what thing to pay attention to. So it's a, it's a real difficult problem for a lot of people to be able to sort out what's important for, you know, for them. And even back from the days of the caveman, we needed to know what was safe and what wasn't. What people were safe, you know, because you don't just walk up to anybody because somebody might, you know, hit you on the head. That'll be it, you know, so we're in survival mode a lot of times, which is why we are so stressed about what that information is coming into us and how we communicate with each other. It's really important that we all, that we all know about that.

Yes. And so is survival. You know, I want to draw a conclusion here, and I don't know if it's appropriate to do so, but the survival Mode. Does being in survival mode also mean being. Being stressed or being in stress? Is that. Is that fair?

Yeah, because think about it. Your brain only is able to process so much information and decide about X and Y and Z, but meanwhile, A, B, and C are coming in, and the brain's going, whoa, stop. Halt. I can't do it all. And we get really stressed. We get. Sometimes the processing system is not quite as quick, or we fail to make that connection between what's coming in and what we should be processing it as. And that's a big problem. And it does lead to stress. We can't do it all, unfortunately. Sorry. Sorry for everybody listening.

Well, I mean, but we want to do it all. So we do be straight about that, right?

We do, absolutely.

Who does. Who doesn't want to do it all?

I mean, overachievers are us.

Yeah. So what I'm hearing you say is, on some level, communication is. Has something to do with our instinct or our programming for safety to avoid pain or to avoid something really catastrophic happening to us. And then. Then there's other types of communication where we're trying to learn new things. Like you said, you're a lifelong learner. And so acquiring that knowledge and, you know, caveman examples of that might be, where's the best food? You know, where do we find water and shelter, that kind of thing. What is today? And that's from the past. So let's talk about what does communication look like today for people? Because we're not exactly watching out for the dinosaur stepping on us or something anymore, I don't think.

No, unfortunately not. But think about. Think about the impact of technology we use. You know, we use the cell phone, we use faxes, we use computers. We use. And look at Zoom we're talking on now. We use all these technologies to help us connect. So what do we. You know, what do we need to develop there? That's our. That's our lifeline, our connection. And we, as human beings, we are hardwired to connect with each other. So not only do we need to be to survive, because as a species, we have to survive, we also need to share knowledge as to how to survive better. So both of those things are extremely important. And today, because through the miraculous thing of technology or the bane of our existence, for some of us, technology really makes a difference in how we connect and how we feel about that connection, because if we don't connect correctly, it leaves us feeling empty and hollow. And that's not a good thing.

No. Or stress. I'm not going to be a predictor of anything because I'm not in that game and I'm not a sociologist either. But it will be interesting in 50 years to look back and see what did happen to the connections to those all important connections. I know before we turned on the record button, you and I were talking about people living in the box. And part of what is required to feel connected in society is that you're in the box because you're in the box with everybody else is in the box. And when you're outside of the box, you're unique. And maybe you're doing it your way and you feel good about that and you feel enlivened about the fact that you're living your unique, your unique way. And yet you're disconnected or may feel disconnected from those who are in that herd or in, you know, in the box. It's like representing the herd. And we're herd animals, I mean, as people, as human beings, but as sort of any living organism. We all are connected to everything else. Now, whether we, whether we require that or not, I think is. I won't make that judgment. But to me, of course, how can we be connected? How can we be a cell in the organism of a greater thing, a greater being, a greater existence or energy even, and not be. And not have a requirement that we. That we feel connected to it, that we have some awareness of being connected to it. So outside the box is great. And yet there's this urge, I think, in all of us, on a physical level, on a emotional level, on a psychological level, to also feel connected and one with the herd as well. So there's this potential that in communication and advances in technology leading us to be able to work at a distance. There's a great book called the Future of Work by Thomas Malone, a Harvard researcher and professor, talking about how technology advances have enabled us to move further away from the kingdom. You know, the corporation being sort of that hub and that kingdom where everybody gets to see each other and communicate and meet in the break room and at the water cooler and the jokes and the harassment, all the other stuff that goes on in, you know, inside of a workplace. But now the movement is toward virtual working. And so many people, more than a billion people, are working virtually around the world. And that's going to increase even more over time. So what can you say about that? Well, and by the way, I want to say that that part, because I don't know if I had a clear question in there, is just the observation that communication may Be even more important in the future where we're not in that central hub, we're not in the box, we're not in the herd in the corral with all the other of our species.

Well, let's think about that. Just in general, communication is so essential to our lives. It is our connection, our human connection system. People today now are reporting more and more feelings of loneliness and unhappiness. And there was a recent study from Harvard University that they said that loneliness, that feeling of just disconnect, is up over 300% in the last few years. And when we look at technology, who's making the further and further and further away connections through technology, we realize that we need that face to face human connection, technological opportunities to connect like you and I are doing right now. Not enough. And people are finding that the right kind of communication, that human connection is really essential to their feelings of connection, happiness and lack of loneliness per se. So that's what really is important. Let me say that again because I think it's really important. Happiness comes from our ability and opportunities to connect face to face with others. Communication in a nutshell. So when you talk about that, I think in 500 years, hopefully we're gonna go back to at least some face to face communication. It's real essential.

Let me know what you think about this. Whether you agree with the statement I'm gonna make. There's two types of communication to me. One is communication that we have with other people. Just as you explained how important it is, we, we are connected to other people, others of our other, other human beings. And the other communication is internal. So one is external, one's internal, one's with others, and one's with ourselves. So do you agree with that?

Oh, absolutely. I think we put on the facade to communicate face to face and even through technology, but it's the messages that are within ourselves, how we decide what we want to say to ourselves. And one of the things I really feel is that we have a choice every day to be heroic. And by heroic I mean we want to have our communication effective, authentic, and we also want to have it be the message that we want. In other words, when your communication inspires others, you learn more, you do more, and you can become more. That is the heroic communication that we need to keep putting into our brains every day.

So you've done me a big favor here, which was to, to answer a question I was thinking about, which was telepathy. Do you have to be a hero? Do you have to be. I mean, is on what level in speaking with yourself, having internal conversation, or even in your communication without outside of yourself with other people. To what degree does that require an element of courage? And by that I'm saying, you know, the world is. We're getting messages from left, right and center. As you say, we have this desire to connect. And loneliness is something that's not out of the norm today. Anxiety, depression, loneliness, these are things that people feel regularly and yet to be able to reach out to another person, to connect so that you don't have that feeling of loneliness, that can be a dangerous activity. And the more we are moving away from the workplace, the central hub of seeing people, where you have to communicate because you're working with them face to face or back to back, cubicle to cubicle, office to office, whatever it looks like, or it did look like. Now people are working from their home, they're working from coffee shops, they're working from the beach, from virtually anywhere, but they're by themselves in many ways. The ability to connect with people is going to require and speak. Even because our company works with speakers on their ability to speak publicly and be able to be effective at doing that. There's an element of courage that's required. So I was trying to tie together this idea of that courageous communication with what would be valuable in terms of whether it's alleviating the issues of loneliness and aloneness or feeling alone, the ability to sell something, to be able to be more effective at selling yourself, at selling a product, you might have real tangible skills. So tell us a little bit about heroic communication and how it is that you teach that what's required. Are there steps involved?

Well, as you know, I am. You know, I'm a coach and an author and also a speaker. I do a lot of programs, workshops and things like that to help people learn the essential skills to becoming heroic. And heroic is obviously maybe a subjective term, but nonetheless, we are all capable of rising to the occasion, to being more. And let me tell you a little bit about heroic communication. Basically, it's a two step process. You got to have both steps. You have to have the desire to act and then you have to have the decision to act. Let me give you an example. I think probably for the people that are listening and watching this, maybe an example would be a better way to get this point across. I know the other day I was at Starbucks and I think everybody has been to Starbucks once in their life, even by force. And I was standing behind a lady in the line and she was, you know, she Was talking just kind of to the air. It was kind of the weirdest thing I think I've ever seen. And she was saying, sort of muttering to herself, my husband doesn't understand me. He's a pain. You know, I mean, I think we've all been there, married or not. And I had to sit and think for a second, and the communication in my head was going off. Oh, my God, what's going on? Is she crazy? Okay, maybe she's not crazy. Maybe she's just angry. What do I do? Do I open up and make a conversation? Do I try to connect with her and maybe I can help? Or do I just get my coffee and quickly walk out the door? And I think we've had. All had that situation where we've had to make that fork in the road. We've had to go one way or the other. Well, because of the way I am, I opened up and I created a conversation. And. And through our conversation, we got the chance to share and connect. I had some pieces of information that were helpful for her. She calmed down, she thanked me, and we still got the coffee and got out the door in a pretty good time. It's making that decision to connect, making that vulnerability that you have, and in not being afraid, listening to those voices in your head. Don't connect. Oh, don't. Don't say it.

Don't.

Is to reach out and take that chance to create that bond and that connection. That's heroic communication. Could I be more. Yeah. Could I do more to help my fellow person in the Starbucks line? Yeah. And could she become better, calmer? All those things? I could answer yes to all those things. So when I did that, I left with my coffee and I felt great. I took the chance. I decided to connect. I had that desire, but I decided to connect and did. That's heroic communication.

Wow. That's a really great example, by the way. I mean, we've all been in the Starbucks line and saw somebody or observed something. And look, most recently, we. I mean, you talk about how poignant that example is in the context of what's going on in the world. Starbucks in Philadelphia had a very big issue show up right there. Two guys, African American men that are meeting, are meeting someone, waiting to meet someone at a Starbucks for a business meeting, a real estate meeting, you know, they asked to use the restroom, etc. And they're escorted out by the police. Right.

Unbelievable. Unbelievable. I mean, there's. There's the. There's the chance you're working in a Starbucks or you're in a Starbucks and you see something, guess what? You had that ability to desire to figure out what was going on. You had to make that decision and take that chance. That whole thing could have been solved in two seconds. If somebody went over and said, oh, how are you doing by the way, you know, whatever. And it started a conversation. The gentleman I'm sure would have said, hey, we're still waiting for our friend. We don't want to get our coffee yet until he gets in because we'll drink it all and we'll have to order another one.

Exactly.

Solve the problem.

Right, so, so heroic communication in that instance could have solved that whole issue.

Absolutely.

Pretty interesting. And it also sounded like when I'm debriefing it in my mind as I'm listening to you, there's, there's two parts. Seems like there's a two part process to what is heroic communication or at least how it is that it shows up. Could you share? Is it in fact two parts?

Absolutely. Because there's a lot of times we say, for example, we walk into that Starbucks and we have no desire to connect. We're having a bad day, we don't want to, you know, so right then and there the whole process is gone. Then we may have the desire to talk or to connect with that person, but then we have to do something. We have to open our mouths and we have to let out appropriate comment. So it's a two step process. The decision, the desire and the decision is got to happen together. Because if you have a desire without a decision, nothing's going to happen. If you have, you know, a desire and you don't act, guess what? Nothing happens. So it's really important that both things have to occur.

So desire, meaning the, this part inside of you, so the internal communications that says, hey, I want to connect, I want to help somebody, or I, you know, let's say I want to, I want to sell my services. So many people are shy about asking for the sale. They're shy about asking for what it is they want, which is to engage in a, in a relationship of some kind, whether it's a professional one, as in here's, here's a product I think would be of value to you. Are you interested in learning more about it? Can we have a conversation about that or you know, on a personal level, hey, I'm interested in you. I'd like to learn more about you. I'm curious about you and would love to get to know you. And people are shy about connecting at that level as well. And again, I think this is. This is only getting more prevalent. So I'm not, as I said, my disclaimer. I'm not a sociologist, psychologist, et cetera. But. So we'll know 50 years from now when they write about this stuff, what actually was going on. But the more people are working virtually and not in that central hub of some kind to communicate, the communication skills can erode. They can become atrophied. Like when you don't. When you don't exercise your body or your muscles, they atrophy, they get smaller. It's possible that the communication skills could be going in the wrong direction. And that's why I think the work that you're doing and the work you've shared with us today is so profound, it's so important. And. And there is two steps, it seems. The desire to connect and then the doing the part that says, I'm going to actually do something. You could have been standing on that line at Starbucks watching this woman in some form of pain or confusion, and just decide, I'm going to get my coffee and leave. And a lot of people probably walk right past her, watched, witnessed, et cetera, and said, hey, not my. Not my fight today. Not my. Not, you know, what can I do? And, you know, she could be, you know, crazy. I don't want to get involved in that.

And there's a lot of internal conversation, I think. You know, people laugh about the angel and the devil on both shoulders. You know, should I. No. Yes. No. Yes. No. You know, again, it gets crazy. But you have to. You have to say, what's my goal in everything? Do I want to end loneliness, be happier, make connection? Or do I choose not to? Because I think as we go through all these problems in our world and we say, I'm gonna, you know, close my eyes to being a human being in the world. That's kind of a sad thing. And sometimes we need to have those difficult conversations. We need to, you know, we want to get something, a problem solved, but we have to decide, act.

Yes.

No. If you're. If you're negotiating something, for example, some service that you didn't like, you need to speak up and say, hey, can we work this out? That's a difficult conversation. Who wants to be a complainer and a whiner and.

Or to be confronting people? I mean, that's. That's what I think. One of the hardest things for anybody I know the most difficult thing in their communications is when they have to hold someone accountable or give them Feedback or when they're the recipient of feedback. So there's no question that it takes courage to speak up. What are the ways that you can develop or cultivate more heroic communication within yourself?

Okay, couple different ways. Obviously, one of the biggest ways is through personal coaching because each person has their own barriers, roadblocks, and giant boulders in front of them that they may not be perceptually aware of. So I like to look at them and assess them and talk with them and see where, you know, where we need to focus. So that's one thing I want to say, that's my disclaimer and the other thing to simply change some of the perceptions that developing that awareness, putting those people, you know, in front of the boulders and saying, yeah, there it is, there's what you need, and then creating the ability to change some of the internal communication with themselves. I do a lot of programs, whether it be workshops or one on ones that talk about how do we replace the previous learning and that internal dialogue that we have with ourselves, how do we replace it? Because it's really important that when we were ready to replace, we know that things are going to happen. We want to make sure that we don't just say, oh, I'm never going to say that again. Because guess what? You create a lovely vacuum. And you know what vacuums do? They suck in all kinds of junk. Anything that you come across, and there might be worse programming, it might be worse comments. So what you want to do is carefully and systematically replace the old with the new and the improved, better version of yourself. And that takes practice and skill. There are certain techniques, of course, compensatory techniques that I teach.

And courage too. Right?

And you know, making that decision that you want to be better, how many people out there want to be better? You know, that's a. That's courage right up front right there.

Well, I have so enjoyed this conversation today and I'm certain that the folks that are watching this, listening to this from all over the world, which is really amazing, have gotten great value out of. Of it. And I would love for you to say the name of your book once again. I know of course it'll be available on, on Amazon and we've got full show notes where we'll. Those of you that want to find out more about Dr. Julie Hafner and her work, the show notes will have that, including website addresses, etc. But yes, if you could, what's the name of that book again?

It is the seven Tactics of Communication Completions. How to Build Trust.

And there's also an accompanying workbook. Right.

That is now out too. The workbook's great because you get to take the activities and you actually get to do some self development. My work on My website is drjuliehaffner.com and I would certainly love to have comments, read the blogs and feel free. Connect with me on LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, what else, what other I got. It's sort of like covered them. It's like the communication on the TV. There's 500 channels and there's nothing on.

Oh, that's so funny. Well, there, there is. There are a lot of channels for communication these days, which is fantastic. So I will say this again. Show notes are terrific, everybody. Dr. Haffner, been a pleasure to have you on the show. A joy, actually. I appreciate you. I appreciate the message that you shared with us today. All of you out there, I want to say this before we depart, of course, we'd love to get your feedback as well. So if you could leave a review on itunes, we really appreciate that. You can leave comments@adammarkel.com podcast we'd love to hear from you. If you haven't yet subscribed to the podcast, please go ahead and do that. Check out all of the back episodes. We've got some really incredible ones. And our Facebook group, which people are. Well, I've said this for a while. It's growing in not just size, but in the engagement, tremendous engagement in this Facebook group. You don't always see that, but there are so many people out there who are making the conscious decision to pivot, to pivot on their, in regard to their mind, the way their mind processes information and how they end up doing things as a result of that and what it is that they're doing for a living, the decisions they're making moment to moment. There's lots of subtle and not so subtle pivots in our lives. And to make a conscious decision to be better, to work on that self improvement and that personal or professional improvement as well as Dr. Haffner shared with us, I think is fundamental. So before we end our podcast today, I want to remind us of something that's so important and that is that today was a blessing. This moment is absolutely a blessing. And my wish, my hope is that those blessings just continue to multiply for all of you and that tomorrow you get to do something absolutely miraculous as you were able to do this morning, and that is to wake up. So I have shared for many years around the world a three step morning ritual Which I think is fundamental in making those changes possible. So those conscious pivots are supported by the fact that we have to take care of ourselves, that we have to have rituals for our own resilience. And the best one I've got is the one that wakes, that starts the day, and it involves waking up. So, number one, that we wake up tomorrow. And I hope that you are, wherever you are right now, agreeing and deciding that you will, in fact, wake up tomorrow in both the physical sense as well as waking up your consciousness that much more than it is even today. That's one. Number two, that you have a moment of gratitude at that time, that you realize that is a gift and it wasn't guaranteed. And so it is, in fact, a blessing. So, number two, that you are grateful in that moment. And lastly, if you are willing to do this, either from your bed or from the floor or whenever it is that that you're reminded of what a blessing your life actually is, that you say these words out loud. Talk about communication. And for many people to say words is, in fact, heroic communication that it is courageous to say out loud. I love my life.

I love my life.

I love my life.

I love my life.

And one last time, I love my life. Oh, thank you so much for joining me. Thank you so much.

I'm so grateful to be here. You're so wonderful.

Have a wonderful day, everybody. Ciao for now. We'll see you soon. Bye bye.

Thanks for listening, everyone. We hope you now have the tools and greater insights to navigate your own Pivot. Help us inspire others by sharing this episode and leaving your comments over@adammarkel.com.

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