Innovation & Clarity With Tracy Hazzard

Welcome to the Conscious Pivot Podcast with international speaker, business mentor, best selling author of Pivot, and your host, Adam Markell. The Conscious Pivot shares the stories and wisdom of people who have successfully reinvented some area of their business and personal life. You'll gain powerful insights into how you can fully embrace new opportunities, increase your performance, and master the art and science of innovation and resilience. So please join Adam as he guides you on your Conscious Pivot.

Hey, everybody. Oh, my goodness. I'm so happy to be here with you for another episode of the Conscious Pivot podcast. And today is such a special day. Why is it such a special day? Because we're here, we're alive, we're breathing. There's just nothing more important than the recognition of how special this moment is, how blessed we are, and that's blessing us in every moment, despite the fact that there are things that are wrong in the world and things that we don't love about our lives and things that are going sideways at times and parts of our business or personal life that we'd like to change or improve. And despite that, it's such a blessing to be here and to recognize that in this moment, there are people who are taking their last breath. So for us to breathe and be here and breathing together is even that much more special. And it's something to be grateful for. So I'm enormously grateful to be here with you guys and doubly grateful because I get to share, as I've been so blessed to do, share the stories of people who have done amazing things in their lives, have been resilient, have been smart, have been not smart, have been the whole gamut of the human experience in context of business and also in personal areas. So I have such a profound pleasure in bringing somebody on our show and for you to listen to her, because I think this is a dynamic, a really dynamic human being, an amazing woman, a mom, a business owner, really, really smart lady, that's my personal assessment, is her. This lady and her husband, they're a dynamic duo in their business and they help a lot of people in ways that are really state of the art, like just not the run of the mill stuff, not perpetuating old paradigm stuff in the space of business or in marketing in particular. They're doing special things. So I'm excited. I don't know where this conversation is going to go. I never do. And that is exciting. It's thrilling, in fact. So you guys know the format. I don't introduce anybody. I want our guests to say what's important to them, that we know about them in this moment. So without further ado, Tracy Hazard, welcome to the show.

Thanks so much for having me, Adam. I'm excited to be here with you as well. It's, you know, it's one of those things where it's hard for me to be on this side of the microphone, where I'm getting. I'm on the hot seat. I'm usually the interviewer.

How's it feel in that seat?

You know, it feels as I'm sitting there going, oh, I'm not used to doing this. I'm used to doing that intro. It's such a nice. It's such an. I guess it's really refreshing for a change.

Yeah.

So, you know, you don't. You don't really realize how much you. It is to give on the other side. It is. And so it's really hard to receive. You know, it really is hard a lot of times for us to receive.

Everybody think about that for a second. And if we're being really honest, I mean, it's not always easy to be. To be really honest. So we're going to be really honest now. Receiving is a lot more difficult than giving.

It really is. I know. I know. You know, it's. And for me personally, it's been a realization probably for the last, I don't know, few months. That celebration is really hard. Like, I've had to make a conscious pivot effort to celebrate more the little wins. You know, I was at CEO space giving one of my talks, and someone raised their hand and said, where's the happy ending? What happened in the story? I told a story and I completely forgot the win and they couldn't stand it. And I thought, wow, what a wake up call for me that I just glossed over the good part because I dove only into the hard part. And that's really of not receiving, not winning, not letting yourself celebrate those things, because that's what I mean. You've given and given and given. So receipt is a form of, you know, it's a form of gift. Right. It's a. It's a form of win.

Yeah. It's difficult to give something that you don't have, for one thing. So we all know the value in giving and we want to give and we're taught and trained program, whatever it is. But we're really instructed pretty, pretty fiercely that it's better to give than to receive, which I think is. Is not accurate anyway. There are two, I believe, personally, they're two sides of the same coin, you know, to be, to have a. There be a giver, there must be a receiver. There has to be. So who gets to. Is. Is the person who's the receiver, the one with the short end of the stick. I mean, that's a joke, right? And it, the phrase, as I understand it originates anyway from ancient times, ancient Greece or something, where it was said that it's better to be in a position to give than in a position to have to receive. And that's different, right? That's saying it's really good to be in a position of wealth, of abundance. To be in that position is better than to be in a position where you have to receive. It's not saying it's better to give, it's saying it's better to have to be able to share and be in a position of having than in a position of having nothing.

That's right. And you know, I think I've. I've not come from a really wealthy family or anything like that. I mean, I come from immigrants. You know, two lines of them on both sides. And on one, I was the first college graduate, so it was like a really big deal. So, you know, for me, I was taught it didn't matter about how much money you had to give, but giving your time and giving your intellect and the skills that you have, that was an extremely valuable asset that you must give away. And that's how I grew up with that kind of constant giving in. In any type of realm. You could, if you were, if it was your church, you were. My grandmothers were always cooking, so that was, that. That was pouring heart and love into food, right? And I come from a sort of a Lebanese and Italian background, so there's lots of love going on in food there. And so that was what they did. That was what they. They were great at. That's what they could do, that's what they could give. And it was all always. So you would come over to my nan's house and the first thing she'd do was feed you. Like, you show up and you're going to get fed. And that was her love, that was what she could give. And so I grew up with that mindset and I think that it served me really well throughout my life.

And you wouldn't dare say, right? You would never dare say, no, thank you, no, no. When she said to you, do you want some more? Here's a second plate. Like, here's a second helping. You go, no, thank you. You know, you get Like, I don't know, you could get knocked upside the head for that.

Right.

Like, I don't know what your house is.

Yeah, you'd be definitely taking home leftovers, that's for sure. You'd be like, I can't fit another bite. Well, here's a box to go. Right. Like, that's how it worked.

Exactly. And so you think about how often it is that on some level, whether it's physically or energetically that people say no, thank you to some of the blessings that are there for them. That for not feeling worthy or not feeling deserving, they say, you know, give it, sort of saying to the universe. Give it to someone else. Not for me, you know, no, thank you. It's a good example of when somebody pays you a compliment. I mean, I love the way we digressed right out of the gate. That's right. Sharp turn. Right. Which is perfect. So when somebody pays you a compliment, they say, you know, you look great today. And what do most people that you are around say in response? Or what do you even sometimes say in response to that?

You know, it's been hard. And I. And because I have three daughters, I really have worked hard to take compliments better because I think that's really important role model to leave. You know, you have to sit behind and say, wow, thank you, thank you for that. Instead of like, oh, yeah, well, you know, yeah, I'm, you know, a little overtired today. You know, you would brush it off or something like that, and that's not okay. And it comes to a place at which you. You need to be able to be comfortable in that receipt side of everything. And it's not been a comfortable place for me for most of my life.

Right. If I. So if I say you look particularly beautiful today, what's your answer?

Thank you, Adam. I appreciate that.

Yes.

You're pulling it back in.

Right. As opposed to. Oh, you know, thank you. And by. Oh, and you look great.

Right? Yeah. Flip it back around. Yeah.

Right. It's like it becomes kind of a ping pong back and forth. And women, I think they're more. They more do that than men do. I think on some level it does.

It's true. Yeah.

And it's interesting because it's sort of a deflecting and it's not. And it doesn't allow the compliment to land, meaning you don't allow it to land. Which on some level, if we're going to continue down this stream of consciousness, it's. It deprives the person who's Giving of the gift of the giving. Right. The gift of the giving is that it land. You see the gift land with somebody and that they're. That they. That they fully receive it and get the benefit of it. And if they don't, then it's like. Then the gift was sort of like.

Nadia, it's like you returned it. Right. You know, you like. You're like, okay, it's great. Thanks. And then you go back to the store and you return it.

Right.

That's what it's like.

Or they re gifted it to you.

Or they re gifted it. Yeah, that's even worse.

They recycled your gift and gave it back to you.

Yeah. Oh, that's awful. Yeah. We're not going to do that anymore.

No, no. All right. So, Tracy, will you share a little bit about your background and what's important to you in your life right now?

So. Yes. Thank you. So, you know, you. You hit on it. It is that it's really important to me to be original. It is really important to me. And, you know, I met my husband at art school. So this is a place at which you're encouraged to be creative and original. Right. So we met the first day of school, and, you know, that. That whole thing. We've been together over 25 years. Well, we've been together more than that, but we've been married over 25 years. And what we really have always done is there's a collaboration and originality that has come from the two of us sharing our minds and sharing our creative process together. That is a reward that I feel like I have to push out into the universe because it's such a gift for me and such a gift for us and the creative process, just like cooking and just like all of those other things, where it's a gift of love and it's a work of love for me. So that living in that space, though, I feel that that's. That ingenuity, that creativity, that originality, that's what's going to fix this world. We want to talk about all these, you know, horrendous things that are going on in the world and the scary places and the disasters. But I every day, because I get to talk to innovators and entrepreneurs and I hear about these original things that are going on, and I think this is what it's going to take to the world. That kind of passion and that kind of thinking and that kind of heart just is what will turn things around.

Yeah. And your way of contributing that creativity and that heart to the world. Is through working with entrepreneurs. Right. And business people in their marketing.

Yeah, I have three businesses. We have three businesses here. So one is our business we've done for most of our life, which is creating original products that you buy every day at mass market, retail or on Amazon. We work with a lot of Amazon sellers, we work with inventors to get their idea. Because, you know, it's one thing to have a great idea, but the really hard part is getting it to market, getting it out there, getting it to price out. Right. You know, doing all that hard work. And I'm really blessed with the skill set and a career path that has taught me all the inside tips and tools and Right. Resources to make that happen. So when I can share that with people and make that path smoother, that's. That's where I live. Like, I love that. That's the best part of my job every day. And so that's what we do on one business. And then that has led us to the innovation of 3D printing, which is an exciting new future of being able to create product from nothing. Like just create it from an on demand file. Yep. Instantly you've got a product. And I think that's wonderful because then there's a lot less waste in the world and a lot less shape shipping costs. And there's a whole bunch of things that personally resonate with me that over the years of having made a lot of products that have been in Walmart and Target, it does weigh on you a little bit that you're contributing to, you know, a lot of throwaway goods. And you know, I try really hard not to design that, but it happens. And so if I can do something now at this later part of my career to shift that around, wonderful. So 3D printing is one of those things and that's really cutting edge, so really innovative. Get to see some really new things going on there. And. And in that, we started a podcast around that. And because of that, I realized the critical importance to getting your message out, getting your mission out, getting your why out there, and any ways in which we can do that in a very successful way that doesn't make it so that you can't do your day job. Like, that's the other part that bothers me. If you're spending your whole time marketing and not doing what you're gifted at, not doing where you give most to the world, then that's not a good product. That's not a good process either. And that's where we started our brand casting business. And we did we started that about a year ago for other people, but we'd been doing it for two years prior to that for ourselves.

Yeah, that's. I'm not a fan of waste either. I feel like, in fact, I sort of look at it like nothing goes to waste. It's just a question of what's the alchemy. What's the way you.

Yeah.

Utilize something that would otherwise be a throwaway something. So, yeah, that's way cool. So I think people listening this for sure would want to know what 3D printing is. So I want to make sure that we cover that. And also because of the context of this program, we were joking before we actually hit the record button that so many people get on my show and they cry.

Yeah.

And it reminded me of the end of the Jerry Maguire movie. Do you remember Jerry Maguire?

Right? I do, yeah.

And so Cuba Gooding is at the end and he's, you know, everything's happened.

I'm not gonna cry.

He looks and goes, not gonna cry. Two minutes in, he's bawling.

You know, that's right.

So in any event, will you share a little bit about your. The conscious pivoting that you've done in your. In your business or your personal life?

Yeah, you know, I mean, it's the journey of a lot of entrepreneurs. You know, you have a lot of false starts and ups and downs. And for us, it's. It's hard to be in business with your spouse. It's hard to have your whole family ride on the success of your business. So we really, I mean, this isn't. The, this formation of our business that we've had has really been about eight years. And it, the first formation of it was a business in which we were like, built our Internet business, you know, started with the palm environment, so the palm computing, you know, the handheld computers, when they first came out at the early 1998, 2000s, right in that timeframe. And we built an entire company and business around making accessories for that. So we were like, right at the cutting edge of Internet marketing and doing, you know, there wasn't really. There was email, but there wasn't really social media at that time. And we created, you know, a lot of great goods. We had a lot of grassroots consumers that were like, you know, pushing us out there, what you would consider to be sort of affiliations like we talk about today. Only they didn't. Weren't charging back there. They were just doing it because they were so passionate about it. And we just had a really nice business going and it was growing and it was doing really well and we were really excited about it. And one day I walked into this brand new office we just built and we just had, we had like, I don't know, 10 employees or something like that at that time. And we just got these brand new offices in downtown Providence, Rhode Island. And it was really cool brick building and it just, you know, it smelled like paint. Still a new carpet. And I walked in to get the mail because we hadn't really started working out of the office yet. And I walked in to get the mail and there was the catalog, because back then we didn't get Internet newsletters, we got a catalog. And so I opened up the catalog to the latest palm computing device that had just come out. I think it was like the Palm five or something. And I open it up and on the first page in there, it's got a picture of a product that looks exactly like our product and it wasn't ours. And I was like, we had been begging to get into this catalog and we weren't accepted. Like, they kept turning us down. And now I realized why. They had somebody else they were putting in there. And we had a patent on that product. It was a stylus pen for handheld computers. And we had patents that were just issuing. Like we had just received the notification from the Patent and Trademark office. And I was like, what's that? What the heck? You know, what am I going to do now? I have this entire office. And I just, I went home in a daze and I told Tom and I just started crying. Like, it was like, what am I going to do? All of these employees, like their family, it's like, it's, what am I going to do? How am I going to make this work? How am I going to get out of this? How are we going to survive? Because they're going to kill all our business. And so we, I literally cried all night. I mean, there was no other option but to cry all night. And Tom and I, we were young and, you know, we'd been in business five years or something like that. And we were just, we looked at each other.

So wait, so you're on. We got a fight, you're in the five year mark, right? Where I think the percentage is something like, you know, 96% of companies don't make it past the five year mark.

Yeah, I think we were like four and a half right underneath it, right? Exactly. Yeah, it's exactly it. And we weren't really even making. It's not even like we were Making. We made, you know, maybe we're close to hitting a million dollars in revenue that year. So we had, you know, done a lot of shifting in our business and diversifying. So we've done a lot of really smart things. We weren't relying on that catalog for 100% of our business, but we thought, what if this invalidates our patent? What if this invalidates our originality as designers? This is the start of our career. This is the start of our path. We were expecting that we were going to go through life being designers, going through our careers being designers and original. And somebody tells you, nope, you're not original. We can't, you know, this is the one that's going to stand out. Why? Because it gets more press than we did. It gets better circulation, it got better positioning in a catalog, and that one's going to stand out. And people are going to look at ours like the copycat. And that was something we couldn't live with. So we sat back and we said, we have to fight this on principle because this is who we are at the core. We're original, and we believe that we came up with this originally. So how are we going to be able to fight that? How are we going to be able to make that case? Which, to be honest with you, I've seen a lot of inventors think that, and it's not exactly the smartest path. And in hindsight, I certainly wouldn't recommend that to anyone. Fighting in a court of law is, you know, fighting an IP is ridiculous. It's so costly. It's so time consuming. So. But we sat back and said, well, okay, let's get a little bit creative about this. So we brought our entire team of investors and the team of people we had. We had our attorney and who is a good friend of ours, our graphic designer, our PR person who was a consultant, and our family, who all invested with us. And we sat around and we said, what are we going to do? We have about $5,000 in the bank. What are we going to do with this $5,000? And what can we do to make a case for this that is going to work? And we decided to do something that became what you would consider today to be a viral campaign. We decided to do what the lawyers didn't recommend doing, which was we put. Because back then it wasn't first to file, which is a difference than today, right? You have to be the first one to file back then. It was whenever you invented it. And so that the conception date mattered, and it might be Years prior to that, we disclosed our conception date and the whole timeline by which we invented this and when we disclosed it to Palm Computing over time, because that had to be way before the development cycle, we believed that it was way before the development cycle, development cycle of the pen that ended up in the catalog. And so we just put it right out there in this big timeline with a big ad on the front that was like, you know, like a banner ad that said, do we detect a bit of pen envy? And keeping in mind that it was a very masculine community that went crazy, and people were sharing that and sharing our webpage and emailing it to their friends, and it made, you know, it made talk all over town. And we got a little bit lucky in there, I will admit. Palm Computing was trying to go public. They didn't like the press. The press started picking it up. We got featured in the San. The San Jose Mercury News and a couple of other. The San Francisco Chronicle, and, you know, some things like that. And so that hit them right at home where their investors were. They didn't like that. So that's how. What we did, and it worked. They settled with us, and this is where we get to this place at which I forgot about celebrating. Right. So the reality is, when you win in a case, a lot of times you lose because you've paid all that money out. And you may win a judgment, but you don't get a lot back from it. And I don't think overall we even got our $5,000 back because they kill the product. That happens all the time in the invention world. They'll kill the product. And even though they agreed to pay you royalty, there's no product to sell anymore and there's no royalty stream. Right. It happens all the time. And that's what happened. But the reality is that was a big win for us because it validated our intellectual property. It allowed us to sell off the business eventually for a multiplier. And so we had over a $5 million valuation when we sold off the patents, and we sold them off in pieces to other companies, and we were able to shut that business down, pay back our investors, and it was a win overall, and it was the best choice because at that moment, it set the pace for the rest of our saying, originality can matter, does matter, and is important. If we had let that defeat us at that time, at that beginning, looking back now, I think that would have changed the whole course of everything for us. So it was the right choice.

Yeah. Will you follow that stream of thought? Just a little further on the side of what. What do you think it would have changed for you? Because what you did was courageous. There's a lot of crazy. Yeah, I was gonna say there's a lot of ways to describe it. Right. Because, you know, when we're. Well, when we don't know what we don't know, we can. We'll make decisions based on emotions sometimes or based on our best guess or what people will tell us, and, you know, all kinds of things. So.

Right.

In hindsight, what do you think? Just to finish that thought, what do you think would have been different than your experience taking, you know, from that moment to where you are today? What would have been different if you hadn't bought?

If I hadn't bought. So, you know, this is really interesting. So a couple of years after that happened, we were approached by a professor out of Kellogg's School of Business, and he made us into a Harvard Business Review case study that they teach. And you can buy it around the world. It's taught in 26 universities on IP and entrepreneurship. And our case study of T tools is what the business was called at the time, is there. And they teach it in three parts. And the third part is what did they do? So they teach it in. Here's what happened to them. The second section is what would you do? And the third part is what did they do and would they do it again? Was the refresh that he came back to ask us about five years ago. And so, you know, it's really kind of an interesting thing. So he said less than 10% of the people who go through the course choose the path that we chose.

Right. That's so interesting, isn't that these are.

People entrepreneurs like, they're studying entrepreneurship. They wouldn't choose the wild, crazy idea.

And I love the fact that they don't tell them how it ends.

They don't. Until after.

Until after. Wow. Oh, way cool.

And so I've actually been reached out to link. Some people will say, I studied you in my class and, you know, in. In England somewhere, you know, and I'll get an. I'll get a LinkedIn message from them. And they're like, wow, what you did.

In their fans, what then, Tracy, what you did.

Yeah, exactly.

It's really inspiring, eh? Yeah.

When we sat back, though, and looked back and said, you know what, Knowing what we know now, we would still do it again. In hindsight, however, I think that it would have been hard to actually be at the place we are now and make that decision. Right. It is a very different positioning to be in knowing because the practicality of all of it comes in. The waste of time comes in like you see all that. But the reality is, is that I think that for us that course was so critically important to where we are. And I'm afraid that in a way we might have gotten very. We might have gotten very jaded and that would have been a place that I didn't want to be. Yeah. And I think that having been able to go through the rest of our careers to the place at which we are now believing that there a way, there is a path for the best product to succeed is the champion that I want to be. That's the place that I always want to stay. Is there. It's hard. It is really hard to get something to launch. It's hard to get something to succeed. It's hard to get a product to market whatever is the products you. It's hard to get to market. Right. You know that probably just as much as anyone. Right. It's really hard to do that. But to, to believe and have that jaded view that even that no matter how good it is, that doesn't matter. I don't think I'd want to. I don't think I would be the person that I am. And that's important to me. I like to be this champion of finding a path to make that work. It's not always what you think it's going to be, but being able to see that path and making that happen and getting the best product to win, that's. That's where I want to be in the world.

Yeah. And this is where a part of where we're in alignment and where we have good relate like our relationship is strong in this place because you said it, you, you are a product. I am a product. We are all the product that we're the most significant product in our lives.

That's right.

And that's a product for other people. You know, it's a belief system around that too that are place in this world. Our purpose in being here is about serving and being a value in the world. To not fight for that, to not believe in that enough that you. That you would be willing to risk put put yourself at some level of risk as opposed to just settling like settling for the status quo. You could have talked yourself out of it for variety of reasons and it's a great example because a lot of people. So in the space that we work in, which is in this pivot space, this reinvention space. A lot of people do. They settle. They settle for the. For the product that is them that doesn't win. That doesn't, you know, that they think can't win, that it can't win. Just like you going up against Palm to do what you did. There was a great likelihood that you couldn't win, that you wouldn't win. But you didn't do that.

No, no. You know, it's also a place at which. Where you sit back and you really think about, you know, how much risk is okay for you. And that sort of risk assessment is. It's really good to have someone else's view on that. And it's really hard to get that when you're in the middle of it too. So, you know, this is where those inventors live all the time, those ones with this fabulous idea, they believe so passionately about their mission. And the with that is. Is that when you don't have that sort of outside input sometimes, and you don't say, I'm discounting that. I'm purposefully discounting that because I have something I want to accomplish. And that's what Tom and I said. We hear our attorney, we hear those, we hear what they're saying, and we understand that. We see how often these things go wrong. We see the high cost of it. But the reality is we have something personally we must gain by doing this. We must keep hold of this value that we have on originality. It's more important than that. And, you know, it could have been a very, very great risk. We could have lost our families. We could have lost a relationship. We could have lost our home. Like, there was a lot we could have risked over that. And we got very lucky that that didn't go that far. But we also went into it with the eyes open that it could happen. And I think a lot of. A lot of people are just like, oh, no, my idea is so great. And they close themselves so far off to the possibility that it's not. And so Tom and I believe very firmly in that. You have to have some amount of assessment of that and conscious understanding that you are making a choice. Yes, you are making a risky choice. And so we don't always make the risky choices. A lot of times we discard a lot of ideas that a lot of people would keep hanging on to. But we don't believe in trashing ideas. We believe in that their time may come later. I joke about it like it's like a discard pile when you're playing cards. Sometimes you Reshuffle the deck and they come back up again and they're the perfect card for your hand at that time. That's how we treat our ideas. So they're not trash, they're not gone. They might come back again. And that allows us to have that kind of openness to them that we didn't give up.

Right, because they can be repurposed or they'll, you know, there'll be a time. Maybe there'll be a time when their time comes.

That's right.

Maybe they won't. So it's a really. You know, this is a really interesting point because, gosh, it's such a. I don't know whether the right analogy is that it's a slippery slope or it's a fine line, but there's this risk assessment where people, I think, will, let's say folks that have ideas like, so I'm more. I think we work more. And our target is more with the person who is either making a change because they want to make a change, they want to do something different than they're currently doing, which may include following the dream of invention. Right. It could be that they've thought about a product since they were 18, or it could be that they've been throughout their life they've had ideas for products and things. And then what they routinely see is, oh, somebody did that. Oh, somebody did that, right? Oh, I had that idea. Do you not remember me, six years ago telling you about that?

We should do that? Oh, I hear that all the time.

Hear that forever and ever and ever. Right? And people routinely pass those things up, pass up that opportunity to pursue something that they think is a good idea or that they're passionate about. And then. And then on the other side of that spectrum, you've also got some people that. That have lived on a dream and can't let go of. Can't let go of something that may not be working. So their assessment of it, maybe they're so close to it that they cannot know that, hey, you know what? It's time to. It's time to pivot, right? I mean, think about something like YouTube. It's just a phenomenally successful venture. And it started out, YouTube started out as a video dating site, which seems crazy, doesn't it?

Like, in its current formation, thank goodness it didn't go that route that well, that way we wouldn't have heard of it.

I mean, more likely than not, we. None of us would have heard of YouTube had they continued down the path of a video dating site, right? And, but that was their, that was the inception and that was the genius sort of idea of it at the beginning. And if they had insisted on, I gotta, I gotta keep to my, you know, the original idea. It's, it's right. I'm positive it's right. So this, this is, this is where you know, the journey, the greater journey of life comes in and the greater wisdom of experience and of spiritual practice, of philosophy, of psychology, of all the things that are really meaningful in study have application. When we look at something like how attached am I to something and why am I attached to it?

Well, I like to deal with it in a little more. Because of that situation, we look at things a little bit more. I wouldn't say it's analytically, even though we're create because we are creative people. So we're visualizers first. Right. So we're visionaries. But it's sort of like a gut check system and that we operate on and that's what tells us when it's time to pivot. So that's how we've used it. And so we, the back then, of course, we, you know, had a whole company writing on basically a couple products. Right. And we learned very early on that diversifying your product line is really hard, but it's essential to do it so that you don't run, run the risk of losing out completely. It's like having too many, you know, only one customer. Right. It's very dangerous place to have a business. So we learned that early on.

So having only one source of income.

Exactly. It's very dangerous and very risky, especially when you're a husband and wife team and your whole family rides on that. So we learned early on that we had, whatever we did, we had to have multiple streams of income, multiple customers, multiple products. And so we've always built that in. But in doing that, when you're a small business, when you're only two of you, you got a lot of work to do, so how can you do that? Lot of work to do. Right. To set that up and get it going, or a lot of cost, if that's the kind of business you have. Right. It can be very expensive, so how can you do that? So in this last formation of our, in this current formation of our business, which we've been doing about eight years, we've done 250 products in the eight years and they do about $2 billion at mass market retail for our clients and for the retailers. And there's no way two people could do that. Kind of volume of work. If we didn't have a very speed system for gut checking and saying, are these right, are these going to work? And out of that set, 86% of them are successful. So we're almost talking about 9 out of 10 successes where in the rest of the product world, in the rest of the startup launch world, it's 7 out of 10 fail. We reverse those odds by this sort of gut check system that we do. And we do it really fast and really cheap. It's like that fail fast philosophy, right?

Yes, for sure.

And what it involves, number one, is to get out of your own way. And that's the hardest thing.

So what's the gut check system?

Yeah, so there's feeling on the edge.

Of their seat now.

Yes. What is it? Yeah. So we call it market proof. Right. Because at the end of the day, if somebody won't buy it, somebody won't buy you, somebody won't buy your coaching program, somebody won't, whatever it is you're selling, somebody won't buy it. That connection between what you're producing and the consumer who's going to buy it, we have to check the feedback loop on that and make sure that that brand, which is you or your product, is resonating at the consumer level. So how do we check it? And so the first thing is you have to get out of your own way and get out of your own head and saying, I know this is great. Now there are some times at which you will override it. I worked at Herman Miller early in my career on the amazing Aeron chair. That is that iconic office chair with the mesh on it. That is the icon of technology in the dot com world. Right back in 1994, 95. And that chair would be in a leather chair if they hadn't listened to their own, their own mission and their own message about why they created it. If they had listened to a focus group. So you have to at some point decide to override it, but you have to know you are overriding it. And that's where you have to get out of your own way and hear what people are saying about it. And then that's the number two thing, is who are you asking and who is saying something about it? Because if it's your friends and your family, I call them, they're either yes men or no moms. And so where you get people are like, oh yes, you're great. Of course, everything you come up with is great. And they're your, they're your cheerleaders. Right. They're your support system. And then you have the ones that are really afraid for you, your moms. You don't want you to get hurt and who tell you, no, you shouldn't be an entrepreneur or you shouldn't do this. I don't want you to get hurt again.

Right. Did you pack a lunch?

Yeah.

Is your underwear clean?

Right. You get those, you know, you get those who are afraid for you, and they say no, thinking that that will help dissuade you from getting harmed and getting hurt in the process. So you don't get a good answer from that audience. You have to make it resonate from the source.

This is number two, is take it from the source you've got. And this was advice I got when I was 18.

That's right.

Seriously, good advice. Who are you speaking to? Right.

And this is essential to what you do, right? This is essential to what you do, Right. When you're helping people figure out who they are, what they want to do, what their brand means, Right. Part of that is who's listening to you, who's buying from you? Who do you want to talk to? Who benefits the most from the impact you can make in the world? Right. And if they don't hear, this is what brand, the definition of brand is for us. Brand is how your ideal customer, whoever they might be, perceives you.

Yes.

It's not who you say you are, it's a part of that, but it's that gap in understanding between how you say it and how they hear it that is really the definition of what your brand means.

Perception is reality.

Yeah. And so when you can close that gap, that's awesome. But you know that, that involves a lot of listening, a lot of hearing what they're saying. Are they perceiving what I'm putting out there? Do they get it? Will they buy it? And that's the third part that we try to do is we try to have real world tests. It's one thing to ask people about it because they want to please you. People are people pleasers, Right. So if you went into a group and you're like, this is my product, and it's so really great. And even if they're the target consumers, they're gonna. They know you're the inventor, they're gonna go, yeah, yeah, it's really nice. Sure, yeah. But at the end of the day, will they plunk down the money to buy it? Can we find a way to test that? And that's where 3D printing has come into our world. Came in early into our world as a way to do that and physically do that for products. But it's a great way. I mean, we do the Internet and there's mobile devices and mobile research and things that you can do with real consumers where they're actually think they're buying, but they're not. And you know, just so you can simulate that whole process, you can put things on a shelf next to each other, you can compare. That's what AB testing and marketing is. Right. There are so many ways in digital world today that we can do this, that we have a lot more tools. And so for us to ignore that, shame on us, because it given us the, it gave us the perfect, it gives us a perfect opportunity to pivot. And that's what Tom and I do really well for our clients and do really well for ourselves is we hear that feedback and say, okay, what little change, what small amount of pivot can we make that's going to magnify out there later and give us the sales result we want and get us where we want to go? And that is how we've been able to shift those odds in our favor.

Yeah, measuring is so important and the ability to make incremental change is vital. I mean, just look at, look at a single straight line. And if you make the slightest change in the direction of that line out over time, when you extrapolate over, over a period of time, you'll see those, those two, those two lines diverge in a big, big way.

You have a big impact.

Two different destinations by a long shot, you know, like a very wide gap between those two different things, between sort of extra, that status quo line. And what happens when you make a small change, but you don't know what to change if you don't measure? That's the problem.

If you don't listen to, it's not just the measurement of it because you want to listen and hear it and then say, okay, now I have to weigh that against what my goal is and what I want to do. And is that actually an indicated cation that I might be successful if I make this change? So that's how you measure and then analyze and then shift.

That's a great distinction.

Yeah, that's how we do it.

So what's the, this is a great time to ask you this. What is the ideal client for you? What is that? Who is that person? Because I think a lot of people listening to this be like, I'm really intrigued. I want to know, am I the ideal client?

Right. Well, And I'm really picky. So the ideal client has to know who they are.

Are you really picky?

I am. So, yeah. So I get a lot of people who go, I'm not really sure I should be contacting you because. So discerning about it. But, you know, the thing is, it's not about like the kind of person or how much money they have. It really doesn't have how early stage they are. None of that matters to me. But what really matters to me is that they know who they are, they know who they want to speak to, so they know who they want to. And it's. Not everyone will benefit from my product when somebody says that to me. There's definitely not my client.

No.

They need to know exactly who they want to talk to. And I want them to be very clear about how much work they're willing to do for that, because that is something. Are you building a brand? Are you building a business? Are you doing this passively? Do you want to just spend four hours a week on Amazon selling? Like, it's a very different model of business because this is not. It's very rewarding and has a higher value to it at the end of the day, but it's a lot of upfront work to launch. When you're launching products constantly, you're launching people, product brands. It's a lot of work in that launch stage and they have to be ready for that. They have to be willing to do what it takes there. And that's really. That's really it for me. And then the second, though, kind of screener for me is always a test to see how flexible they are. Because if they aren't willing to pivot, if they aren't willing to take what I say in, they will not succeed. I have seen it happen too often and I've ignored the red flags from clients and they're the ones that go horribly wrong.

Yeah, rigidity is. We were discussing this earlier today that this. The only thing we can sort of count on is that things change. Right. So change is the constant. And in Mother Nature, we see how change looks. Seasons change, weather changes, and then often there are storms associated with those changes in the season and whether they're tornadoes or hurricanes or what? Man, in a hurricane, do you want to be the oak tree or the willow?

Yeah, yeah. Flexibility pays. It does at the end of the day. And while I don't mind clients who are going to push back on me and push my thought process. I like that. I like that sort of debate. But if their mindset isn't open to begin with, it's just so fixed. There's really no, that's just not the right type of. It's not the people I want to spend time with, I guess is the point. And I'm far enough in my career that I can be that choosy.

Yes, absolutely. So I want to pivot now. Just shift your thinking a little bit about the things that keep you in that space of being at your best, which you've described in lots of different ways, how you guys have been at your best and have been able to have a clear feeling. I want to call it for your gut and gut health. By the way, there's so many things that are being written down. Studies about gut health, how important gut health is to your overall health, but also where gut health is connected to your brain health.

That's right.

This is really interesting how well you think and the kinds of decisions that you're able to make. The discernment, the level at which you can entertain two seemingly conflicting ideas at the same time and then be able to reconcile or entertain them at least is a high. There's a high degree of not just intelligence but effectiveness that comes from that. That's a skill set that sets you apart from people and the gut is related to that.

So, yeah, I call it creative intuition. Right. So I have a high degree of intuition. So a high degree of being able to listen to my. Create the, the creativity in. Within me above the noise of, you can't do it, you shouldn't do it. There's too many products like this on the market there. You know the numbers, those. While it is important for me to have a lot of information and I try to have a good broad amount of information and analytics to depend on. At the end of the day though, it is an intuitive choice that you make. Is this the right thing to do for me, for my client, for my product, for the path that I want to go and that's really where sitting and knowing who you are and the end result of what you want. And for me, that's embodying that for my client, making sure I know who they are and where they want to go with that, so I can help them, guide them on that decision making process and through that path to make it as direct and fast as possible to get there. You've got to have. You've got to live in a place where you're in touch with that intuitiveness. And there was a time period where a lot went wrong in our Personal life and. And just in. And I shut it all down to protect my family, right? I'm like, obviously my intuition is crap and I shouldn't be listening to myself anymore. I put us all at risk. I gotta stop that. I'm gonna close it off, and I'm gonna be the mama bear, and I'm gonna protect everyone and do what it takes to get the business running. And it wasn't until I. And I got it running and I got everything going, but it was so dissatisfactory at the end of the day because I was constantly telling myself, no, don't listen to yourself. No, you're. You know. And once I released that and said the business actually exploded, it got bigger, it got expansive, we got more clients. Everything was better because I was living in the place at which I truly believe in myself. I know who I am. And when you do that, the rest of it follows because everyone senses that it's an energy.

So cultivating creative intuition is about. If I'm hearing you correct, it comes from trusting yourself.

It really does. It really does. And, you know, early in. When I first started writing my Ink column, I write for Inc.com innovation and when I first started writing that column.

I. I love that there's an article coming out.

There is. There's one. Yeah.

That's involving us.

It should be us. Yeah. Next week it'll come out about Pivot. And so, you know, when I first started doing that, one of the first people I was lucky enough to is someone who you've interviewed on the show, John Assaroff. And I was kind of intimidated because I'm a big fan. Like, I really thought, wow, this is someone who I've always wanted to get to talk to. Now I have this opportunity, and I was only, like, my third or fourth article, so it was, like, a really big deal to me. And he was so organized. He had all these notes everywhere. And my whole process was about asking him about creative thinking. And the first thing he says to me is, well, you can't have creative thinking. It doesn't exist. And I went, what? You hit me at what I thought I was good at, right? And what he was really saying was that you can't think your way to creativity. You can intuit your way to creativity, but you can't think your way to that. And so when he started really explaining it to me, I was like, oh, okay. Phew. But what I really realized there is that that's exactly where it lives. It lives in that unconscious, subconscious trust area of your of your brain and of your gut and all of those things. And you have to be in tune with that to tap into that.

It's a feeling space. And so do you have a ritual or practice that helps you to gain greater trust for yourself, greater trust in yourself, so you cultivate that creative intuition? Do you have one of those?

Yeah. So, you know, I actually started transcendental meditation this year, and for me, that's been a tremendous space because my brain is very noisy. And. Yes. And so for me, what was happening was, is that I wasn't taking the time to heal myself. So that's why I chose transcendental as opposed to any other meditation. I don't want to focus on something. I didn't want to focus on a solution because that's making my brain work. I wanted something where it would force a shutdown of my brain and there wouldn't be thinking in the process. And I. That's what I wanted was, in a sense, quiet.

Stillness.

Stillness, exactly. Because I don't. My life is pretty chaotic. I have young daughters. Right. It's pretty chaos. So I wanted some stillness in that and so that I could keep hearing. And this is because this is my processes. My process is I hear above the noise. I actually visualize when something's the success path for something. I see it, I hear it, I taste it, I smell it. It like it comes right up above all that noise. But sometimes there's just so much noise. Being able to. To believe that I am really hearing, that I'm seeing that I'm, you know, touching that you lose a little trust in yourself when the noise is too high. So that's been the most important change that I've made this year for myself.

And is it a daily practice?

You know, I try to make it daily. It's a little hard sometimes, but I try to make it daily. And at minimum, once but twice daily is really my ultimate goal of trying to make sure that I have morning and night, have that happen. And it's really helped me be clearer about that trust that I have in it when there's a little anxiety in the back of, like, yeah, am I really sure, you know, my clients depend on me? Am I really sure you don't want to have that? And so that's what I've been removing for myself this year. And I think it's been critical. But overall, my ritual really is to just say it. Because what I found is, like, if I stop myself and think, if I don't just let it come out, I Can correct it later. People are so afraid to say something, but if I let it out, it usually is right. Your gut is usually right. So if in the conversation and I try not to be mean about it and say, oh, my gosh, your product, your baby is ugly, like, I can't really do that. That's just not where my heart is. So it won't be mean. But I might say, yeah, this is not a good path for you. Let's think of a better path. Let's think of a better product for you. I think this isn't quite right for you. Let's dive deeper into that. And that's my approach to it, is not to say no to people because you want to invite them to think different.

Yeah. Wow. Tracy, this has been. I've loved this conversation. I didn't have any doubt that I would, but this has been just. This has been such a pleasure. I want to say a couple things before we wrap it up. Is there anything you'd like to say before we conclude?

No, just I believe so strongly in what you're doing with the pivot incubator and where you're going, Adam, because I think when you. When you get that right, it actually makes everything so much easier, whether it's product development in terms of info products or product development and start a hard product, like everything else, it becomes easy and money follows. So that is. That's a foundation that most people need to get a handle on before they.

Go jumping in when you're dialed in, which is, again, so much of the overlap here. The Venn diagram of things that we both feel and know and also believe that when we're dialed in and we're clear, we have clarity about who we are and what we want to say. We then, because we have. We understand our voice, we know what we want to say. We also know who's meant to hear it. All you have to do is ask that question. Quite frankly, it's Marketing 101, is, you know, what's your message? And if you know your message, then you also know who's meant to hear it, who's meant to hear that message. And the success, or the. I want to use the word success, things flow from that place. They flow. Life is about flow. Money is a flow. You know, everything is flowing. Energy is flowing. There's no. There's no limit to that. There's. It just in utter abundance. So the question is, if it's not flowing to you or something is not flowing, it's probably because you're standing on the hose, standing on the, you know, you're standing on the, on the thing that would otherwise allow. Allow it to flow. So we're in our own way. And much of why I think we are in our way is that we don't have that stillness and we're not clear. So my way of wrapping things up will be to remind everybody, listening, watching, and myself at the same time that to trust ourselves and to use your words, to have creative intuition, which is to another way I've referred to this is whether it's being in the flow, being in a flow state, or being in the zone that you make spontaneous right decisions. So that you call that luck, you can call it whatever you want, but you make spontaneous right decisions. You know, go with that product, go with that message, don't go with that product, don't go with that message, go with that business or not, or pivot or not. But to trust yourself at that level, there's something that comes before that domino, and that is to love yourself. And before the domino of loving yourself, which is the most difficult one, I think this is the reason why so many people do struggle. And in ways, and by struggle I mean they're not hitting on the cylinders in their own life that they could be. And that's why they're. They're tired or they're, you know, in a state of pain or misery or they're angry or whatever it is, because they're just not. They're not hitting on, on all the cylinders that makes them, that they feel they're capable of. So before self love, because self love is a big deal, and it's not, I don't think, modeled for us by our parents or the people around us when we're growing up. So these first seven, eight years where all the studies show that the emotional development takes place long before cognitive, you know, the mind is being developed, or your physical, you know, the puberty and you're developing physically is your emotional development, which is when you learn what love is. Your whole concept of love is formed at this early age by the people that are modeling it for you. And so for most folks, they get a sort of a distorted view of that or a conditional view. So, you know, when you're good, you're loved, and when you're not good, you're not. And you know, love equals attention, all that kind of thing. So the domino before that to me is self care. So I just want to lay this out that if we can just learn how to care for ourselves, that we can Apply self care on a daily basis, we will learn something about what self love, unconditional self love looks like. And from that place of feeling that we accept and unconditionally accept and love ourselves, we can trust ourselves. And when we trust ourselves, that intuition that, that, that creative intuition that that knowingness is more there to access. And then you, then you have a sense of which way to pivot, right? The little micro change, the way to check in with your gut and go, is this a product I should actually kind of bet the farm on, should I not? Whatever those decisions are. So I'm so happy you brought this conversation to the fore today. This is beautiful, Tracy. Thank you.

Thank you.

Yeah, Way cool. So in saying goodbye to everybody, I'll remind you that one of the simplest acts of self care is tomorrow to wake up. Okay, everybody, I wish, I wish that my magic wand, I'm waving it, I'm waving it right now. Everybody wake up tomorrow, physically, emotionally, spiritually raise our all. We'll all raise our consciousness when we wake up tomorrow morning. And then we can be grateful for that. So wake up. Be in gratitude. And the third piece is if you are inclined to say it, think it, feel it. I love my life. I love my life. I love my life. Put your feet on the floor tomorrow and declare I love my life. And allow that to be a training for you and for me and for all of us just to care for ourselves, love ourselves, and trust ourselves that much more. So thank you all for being with us today on the conscious pivot. If you haven't yet subscribed, please go ahead and do that. And if you want to continue this conversation with other people just like you, heart centered, amazing people that are doing brave things. They're challenging the status quo, they're inventing things, they're iterating new things. I'd love for you to join us at the StartMyPivot community on Facebook. StartMyPivot community on Facebook. And Traci, I want to let folks know where they can find you so they can have that conversation with you as well. What's the best place for them to do that?

So you can find me on social media? E dyourbrand or design. And it's H A Z. Z because my last name's Hazard with two Z's so you can find me anywhere like that on the Internet.

So way cool. Feed your brand or has with two Z's has design on Facebook. Awesome. What a pleasure. Ciao for now, everybody.

Thanks for listening, everyone. We hope you now have the tools and greater insights to navigate your own pivot. Help us inspire others by sharing the episode and leaving your comments over@adammarkel.com podcasts for more tips, strategies, and support as you consciously pivot into a new business and lifestyle you love. Join our Pivot community on facebook@pivotfb.com.