Overcoming The Fear Of Public Speaking With Mary Cheyne

Welcome to the Conscious Pivot Podcast with international speaker, business mentor, best selling author of Pivot, and your host, Adam Markell. The Conscious Pivot shares the stories and wisdom of people who have successfully reinvented some area of their business and personal life. You'll gain powerful insights into how you can fully embrace new opportunities, increase your performance, and master the art and science of innovation and resilience.

So please join Adam as he guides.

You on your Conscious Pivot. Hey everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Conscious Pivot Podcast. I feel very lucky and blessed as always to be here with you today. In fact, it's just one of the most important things I can think of to remind myself of, to remind all of you of. And I hope you appreciate this because I. Well, my hope is that you use what, what we're talking about in these podcasts more than anything, that it's interesting that it's a value to you, and most importantly, that it's something that you actually use in your life. So I begin the way that with these podcasts I always begin the same way I begin every day. And during the day I remind myself frequently of how grateful I truly am right now to be breathing, that my eyes are working. You know, I wish I could see better. I won't lie. My eyes aren't quite as great as they used to be, but I still see really well. And I'm really happy that I can correct my vision with a simple, you know, simple lens glasses or contact lenses. Such a simple solve to that, you know, my ears and my body, you know, the physical things are working. I am grateful for my spiritual connection, so grateful for how it is that I've experience the presence of spirit in my life. I would say God, maybe you, you all have a different word for it. I honor all of those things. And if there's no word that you describe source or our creator or don't have any belief around that at all, that that's beautiful as well. I just know for me personally, I've experienced some pretty significant changes in my life, my physical life, my mental life, my emotional life as a result of being present, being in prayer. I've experienced miracles, I'd say, in that space. And they're beautiful. And those miracles are, they start often in such a simple way for me, giving gratitude, being in a state of appreciation for my life, for my family, for the world, for all of you, for people I've never met before and may never in my life meet. But yet knowing that as I'm taking this breath now that everywhere in the world, whether it's in Singapore or it's in Sri Lanka, or it's in London, or it's in Topeka, Kansas, or it's in, you know, the some outer territories in Canada, northern Canada, it doesn't matter where we are in the world as we're taking this breath, we are all taking a breath together. And that is beautiful that we are one. I don't want to get too woo woo here, but it is such a significant truth to me that we, that we are one and that our breath, as we collectively breathe together now we can experience oneness, we can experience connection and community with people that we've never met before and that we may never meet yet in our lives. So I'm grateful for all of that, for the seen and for the unseen. I'm also grateful for the time that I get to spend doing this beautiful work and to be with you now as you are listening, maybe at work, maybe in the car, maybe walking, running, doing some, some other really great thing. This is a blessing to be in your life and to have you in my life. And I'm also blessed to have a guest on the podcast today. Who is this just wonderful, wonderful lady, beautiful woman, physically, outside, inside, just beautiful being. And you'll get to meet her shortly. Her name is Mary Chaney and she's somebody that I've known for many, many years actually, which is really cool how our paths have crossed and crossed again. And now to have her as a guest on the podcast to speak about her pivot, her transitions, the work that she's doing in the world, what she's passionate about, including her family, these are really wonderful things and I'm looking forward to sharing her with you. Let me say a little bit about her and then we'll welcome her and you get to hear from her directly. So Mary. And I've mispronounced her name initially, but I'm going to correct myself now. So it's Sheen and Shani, but it's Sheen and I apologize for that. Mary. Mary Sheen. Despite starting out as a shy computer programmer who hid behind her computer because she was too self conscious, I can imagine many of you might feel the same or have felt the same before. Mary went on to become the 2009 World Champion of Public Speaking, second place winner out of 25,000 contestants from 14 countries. She is the president of her own training and communications company, has trained more than 15,000 people in 25 cities around the world. She also taught public speaking and communications related classes at Northeastern University for seven years and is the author of the Amazon best selling book, Present yourself in Public Speaking. Tell your inner critic to shut up and the real you to speak up. During her 15 years of training, speaking, and coaching experience, Mary has learned one important thing to communicate and persuade effectively. The first person you need to convince is yourself. And I'm holding up Mary's book. I really love this book. It's wonderful. And I'm not just saying that because I'm featured, I don't know, three times in the book. That's my, that's, that's my ego speaking up. Any event, it's a beautiful book. I love the COVID I love the topic, and mostly, I love you, Mary. Welcome to the show today.

Thank you, Adam. It's such an honor for me to be here and to be able to speak to the people that listen to your podcast, me included. I listen to your podcast religiously and have picked up multiple insights that I use on a regular basis just from the guests that are on your show. So now to be on your show is an amazing, humbling feeling and I'm looking forward to speaking with you.

Yeah, way cool. Way cool. We were commenting just before we turned on the camera and. And the audio started recording this podcast. We were commenting on the. What's written on my shirt? Mary was saying something about it. So, Mary, what were you saying about it? I'm just Real quick.

Well, I think it's a great way of putting a particular focus on people's minds. So as soon as I saw that resilience, it's something that uplifts me and empowers me. So immediately I thought of, yes, the way how I have been resilient and my life and in the places that I need resilience right now. So it's a really quick billboard version of speaking with you to be able to get that into that mindset. So, I mean, the reason I mentioned it was because the way we show up in the world, we just don't know what people are going to take away from it. So having something written positive on your shirt is definitely one great way of starting off the conversation.

Absolutely. And here's the thing, everybody. It's a public service announcement, or PSA is what it's called. Now I am open for, for advertising. You want to, you want to advertise something on my chest? Just send an email. That's probably scary and dangerous at the same time. Same time. But in any event, yes, for some time now, we've been putting statements on T shirts and really have enjoyed that. In fact, the first time we did it, and I didn't plan on us having a conversation about this, but we'll just take a second to do it, was when we began to convey this message out about loving our lives. One of the most important things to Randy and myself and to our team is that we help people to create peace. Peace for themselves. In fact, when I was running peak potentials years ago, I had a download of vision, really, which was a pretty amazing experience at the time. I remember I was in Canada and always have these incredible experiences in Canada. I was driving in this beautiful area of Squamish, British Columbia, and in the car and had this rush of emotion come over me. I was heading out to one of the rotations where we had our students at a retreat and they were doing some pretty. Pretty wild things on a particular day. And I was heading over there to check on them and I just had this rush of emotion come over me. And I began crying. And I mean, not little tears, they were waterworks, this massive. Just amounts of fluid that was coming out, draining out of my eyes, and I couldn't stop it. And then I heard something and I actually physically hear it. It was just words that became a sound in my awareness. And those words were create peace. Peace through self actualization. That was the exact phraseology that came through was peace through self actualization. And I remember two days later, I stood on stage, we had maybe about 300 people in this camp, and I shared with them what that experience was for me, that I was so overcome with this emotion. And the tears were constant for 10 or 15 minutes. And what was left, the residue of that experience was peace. That our programs and the workshops and the things that we were doing would help people to create peace for themselves. And that their peace, their own individual peace, their inner peace, would contribute to peace in our world. And ultimately, enough people working at that level, enough people that were focused and interested and invested in creating their own personal peace, that we would hit a tipping point. And that at that tipping point, our world would be more peaceful than not peaceful. And that might be the definition of world peace, I don't know. But we created a foundation. We still have that foundation. It's peace feels like. And a Facebook page with a beautiful community there as well. And that's been a driving focus for us. So at that point, we started putting things on T shirts. And the first thing that we put on a T shirt was I love my life. And in the word love, some people know this And I think a lot of people don't. The word love was actually, I wrote it out on a piece of paper. So the love that's in those. In those T shirts and on those T shirts is from my heart and my hand, and we imprinted it there and it became a really interesting thing that, that we. The things that we put close to our heart, the words that we wear close to our heart, the intentions that we. That we hold so dear to our heart, really have a powerful impact on us. Very much like chi, energy. And Mary, I don't want to make any assumptions, folks that are watching on YouTube, you can see that Mary is of Asian descent. Chi is a word that I think means energy. And many, many people have spoken and written and taught about the importance of energy moving in our bodies and where energy gets stuck in our bodies. In fact, we have blockages, we have dis. Ease, we have hardening of the arteries and clogs and heart attacks and all kinds of things when the energy isn't. Isn't moving. So it was really lovely is that when I was working with somebody some years ago, was teaching me a little bit about chi and about how to move energy. We say, you lay hands or you bring warmth, you bring energy to that area where there's a blockage so that it clears the blockage so that the flow is better, the qi is better, and therefore it promotes this. This resolution or this restoration or what some people might refer to as healing. And so I just thought it was so beautiful that we could put a word like love right. Right there in the heart. In the heart space. Heart chakra. Right there.

Yeah.

So, in any event, Mary, thank you so much for bringing that to my attention this morning. It was a bit of a digression, but I really appreciate you inspiring it.

Yeah. No, I think it's very important that whatever shows up in the presence of a conversation, my opinion or my experience has been it's the conversation that was meant to be had. Right. So. And you don't know how that's going to affect someone who heard it. So I think it's perfect.

Yeah. Mary, what is your background? If you would share with us that? Because I think that's part of your pivot and how it is that you're doing the work you've been doing because you were. It wasn't easy for you growing up, where you grew up and some things like that, but I want that to come from you, so share a little bit about your background, where you grew up and what challenges you Faced kind of early on.

Yeah. So for those of you who've already noticed, I am actually of Asian descent, as you pointed out, and especially since moving to the United states back in 2001. One of the most common reactions that I've had from people, I'm so very used to it now, is when I start to speak, they go, oh, where's that accent from? Because clearly it's not a Chinese accent. So my history is that I was born in Hong Kong and When I was 7 years old my family migrated to Australia where I grew up, which is why I have this accent.

What accent?

Although to me you're the one with the accent. So it's all relative really.

Exactly. And what part of Australia?

Sydney. I grew up in Sydney, Australia and came to the United States as an adult. So after school, after school I finished, after college graduation, then I moved here to work. And that's in some ways that's where my pivot began, in some ways. So I studied, I went to school as a, to be a computer programmer. And at the time I was very passionate about that topic and I loved it. I loved the job that I did, I liked the fact that I enjoyed it. So that was number one. And my interest was just naturally there to begin with. So I went to school. After graduating from my Bachelor's of Computing science, I started working in a, in a large bank, a well known bank in Australia in the IT department and was a programmer there for a number of years and then pivoted over to, well, I don't know if this is called a pivot change. Companies doing similar work but for a different company in the airline industry, it's completely different industry. So I learned a lot there as well. But you know, with the continuous roots of the technology underlying theme, and then moved over to more business analysis, more analytics, systems analytics role, which I quickly found was not my cup of tea just because my brain wasn't wired that way and I didn't find it there. I didn't find that there were enough creative opportunities the way I was, the way I was doing the role, and quickly shifted back into programming because I found that that was more enjoyable and more interesting to me. And then I moved to the United States, which is where this journey kind of began. Worked for a software company in the United States in the New York, New Jersey area. And it was within that role that I started to realize how self conscious I was when I started to speak up for myself in public. And back then in public was in a team meeting or even Just, you know, one on two with a couple of co workers. And I found that even though I knew secretly that I had this personality, the personality just wasn't coming across. I was so focused on how I looked and my self consciousness around are people going to be able to tell that I really don't know what I'm talking about in this particular topic or situations where I would constantly be meetings where the people within the meeting were talking about system xyz, system abc and not knowing what those systems were and being too self conscious to ask because I was so concerned that oh, maybe I'm supposed to know what those systems are. And so in that sense I started to realize that there was a skill, there was a way of being whatever you want to call it, that I wasn't embodied, I wasn't being true to myself and what was really there for me to be expressed. And that's when I started on the public speaking journey and decided to work on my public speaking skills so that I could articulate myself in public without feeling self conscious. And that was my number one goal to begin with, just to be able to speak up without feeling self conscious. I had no idea how long that journey was going to take and how many iterations of speaking that I needed to go through and the different mentors that learn from and the work, the personal work that I had to put into it to be able to get to the other side, so to speak, and simply to be myself when I'm speaking and not some fake made up person that I was too not far along on my journey of self development to even know that I was being fake. Right.

So basically just unaware, unaware of even the, even the facade or the. Yes, this thing that's not really you, but it is the you that you adopt and embody to get through or to be safe, really.

Right, yeah. And the way I would describe it now and the way I teach my students is we all have spectrum of expressions and whenever I was speaking in public, that spectrum would shrink to a very small portion. So I wasn't expressing the rest of the spectrum, just this particular zone that I was comfortable enough to be able to express. And so along this public speaking journey and discovering what it really takes to be able to express myself freely. And that's really what it is. I mean, it's one thing to be able to be on stage and you know, teach something or talk about a certain topic that you're passionate about or talk about a certain topic that you're asked to speak about at work. Right. But then it's another thing altogether to be able to be present enough. And that's why when you mentioned the title of my book, the the word present is in inverted commas because it really is a play on words, on presenting, present, present as well as being present, which is where all the power is. And what I started to notice along my own journey of learning public speaking was not just within my own experience, but just seeing student after student after student confronting themselves within themselves while they're speaking was the biggest challenge. It wasn't so much the mechanics of the speaking, so it wasn't even how you articulate yourself, you know, voice control and how you stand and make sure you have eye contact with the audience, which, you know, in every public speaking training I've ever went to, that's very, very much one of the big components that you have to master. And it's important. I'm not saying it's not important, but those mechanics did not help the person on the stage that I was coaching to not be nervous and to not let their own negative self talk get in the way of really connecting with the audience. That's why I felt the need to write this book, which is a summary of all the processes that I use in my classes, which is how to tell your inner critic to shut up and the real you to speak up. I know it's kind of tongue in cheek and at first when I was labeling the book, I thought it might be even.

It is a bit cheeky. But we like that and it suits you because again, since I know you quite some time. Mayor, one of those beautiful things is that you are cheeky. You have this great sense of humor and your variance, the word that we typically use when we're training. And I know you've been most recently to one of our speaker trainer programs. Variance is so important because we have to make sure, as you're indicating that we are connecting, that we don't leave anybody behind. And we know that if we're, if we're up there putting people to sleep or if what we're saying has no impact, or if we're just not confident in ourselves in that moment to be present. Presence is a reflection of our inner state of wellness, of our inner peace. To bring it back to what we said earlier, that's all confidence, is that you're standing in peace in that moment. And when you are standing in peace, not only are you powerful, but you're there in the moment. And you can therefore be available to all those people that are in front of you, which means you get to be in relationship with them. And we all know that. We give our attention to people that we're in relationship with. We give our attention to people we care about, and we give our attention to people that we believe and feel care about us.

Right, Right.

So all those other things you're describing are very much these. These separations, right?

Yes.

I heard somebody once say that that original sin is. Is all about the belief that we are separate from our brothers and sisters, separate from, you know, whatever. Whatever other source in the universe we believe in. But that separation is that. Is that sin? Well, there's no greater sin on the stage than that I can think of than being separate or having a facade that separates you from other people. Like that puts you above them or beyond them or any of those things. And you've been doing this a long time. So please continue. I mean, does that make sense to you, that that's the distinction here?

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. The way you described it is wonderful. And I want to add to that, the way I find that helps people be very clear on what I'm trying to say is when you are so picture yourself on the stage, right? And you're just about to give a speech, or even you're in the middle of giving one, and you might say something, but then there is this other voice in your head. So the way I describe it is there's always two voices that are speaking when you're on stage. The one that's coming out of your mouth, the one that's going on in your head. And for most people who have not done the personal development work and the real. The real work with themselves, to look at what is your real. What is your little voice in your head actually saying to you as you're speaking on stage? And what I found most people answered were things such as, I hope I'm prepared enough. I hope they don't ask me a hard question. I hope I don't sound stupid. I hope that there's no one in the audience who's going to call me out if I say something wrong, or they know more than me. And all these voices that in aggregate are disempowering to us, we're on stage.

Those voices, how do they interfere with the experience of being present?

And I'm glad you asked, because what happens is those voices that you're focused on will be the invisible wall between you and the audience. It is like an invisible wall because you are completely focused on that. And when you're focused on that how on earth. There is no space for you to be available for your audience, for that clear person to person, heart to heart, communication. And I have to be up front. It's not an instant process. It takes a lot of time and energy into being real with yourself. And that's why it's called tell your inner critic to shut up and the real you to speak up. Because it's almost like getting to know yourself all over again, like a new person. Like you've been relating to yourself as such for a long time, and now it's providing another angle of looking at yourself. Because that begs the question, right? If your inner critic is not the real you, and I'm saying it's not, then who is? Then who is?

This is such a great point of inquiry, Mary, because that question of who is public speaking is confronting. I mean, it's one of the most incredible accelerators of personal growth. I never said that before, but you're inspiring that to come through. Yesterday I had a podcast with Alan Cohn, who's written 25 of the most amazing books and is very well thought of in the personal development space and lives in Hawaii now. And he and I were talking about how important it is that we are continuing to develop and evolve ourselves. And in many ways, that road for him at this point in his life is more about self acceptance. It's more about self acceptance than it is about self development. But public speaking in particular is something that really puts a, you know, puts us on the fast track to new discovery about ourselves because we are so vulnerable on that stage. We are so there out there, kind of naked to the. To the eyes and the ears of the people in front of us. Whether those are virtual ears and eyes, like we're, you know, in the situation we're in now, or it's live and, you know, like on some big stage. And I know you and I both been on many, many of those stages, so when you're in that situation, the best of you will. Will have to be drawn out, or you. Or you will not continue to evolve. You'll just, you'll sort of shrink. And a lot of people I know, that's why they don't do it. That's why they don't step forward to want to learn how to speak publicly. And as you say, speaking publicly could be just a couple of your co workers in the office. It's a presentation you might make because you want to get promoted. It's speaking up in a leadership meeting where you've not spoken up before where your voice hasn't been heard, it's you borrowing from what you said earlier. It's expressing yourself differently or allowing that whole palette of expressiveness to be, to be utilized in a work context. Or it's actually getting up and speaking at, whether it's a, you know, a local chapter meeting, whether it's the Rotary Club or it's, you know, any other meeting that you might be invited to speak to, or it's deciding you actually want to create a platform and speak to a larger group of people going to confront you exactly where you are in your own stage of development. And that, that is, you know, I think I understand why it's. It would be frightening. And, and I still, to this day, whenever I speak in any, in any way, shape or form, I respect it so. So much so that I pray beforehand I say something to myself to remind myself that it's not about me. There's other people that are the most important components of the whole conversation. And I remind myself that because I know that there is this opportunity to reach people, connect, develop relationship. And it's also at the same opportunity, a moment in opportunity for, for me to shrink, to fall back on old insecurities or self consciousness. I'm sure it's the same for you. What your, your voice inside of your head. What does your voice tell you these days when you're getting ready to speak and when you're speaking, what is that voice? Is you. You've described these two voices, the one that's in the head, this inner critic, and the one that's, that's actually saying something. Mm, yeah.

Yeah, that's a great question. And I'll answer that in just one moment because what you said really hit the nail on the head. It all starts from self acceptance. I find that, like you said, public speaking is a really good front door access to be able to have that conversation with people about their inner critic. Because it's not one of those topics that you randomly go, hey, you know, can I have a hot dog? And by the way, have you noticed your inner critic? You know, it's not the right segue. Public speaking, however, and most people, many people that come to me, they're speaking not because they, it's because of some situation that they're forced to now they have to. They're like, oh no, what am I going to do now? Now I have to, right? I've been avoiding in the past all this time. And so that piece of fear that everybody has around being judged by others, right? We all have that as human beings. That's one thing that we all have. Just naturally we're afraid to be judged by others, some more than others, depending how much work we've done on ourselves. But really when you think about it, it's the fear of self judgment. Because if someone comes to you and says, oh, that green hair that you have is ridiculous, you know, well, I don't have green hair, so it's not going to bother me, you know. But if someone comes up to you and gives you some kind of criticism that you yourself secretly at the back of your mind, think might be true for you, that's when it hurts, right? And so that self acceptance piece is the most important and that's the part that I, the processes that I teach to allow people to step into their own acceptance. So going back to your question, what do I do now when I get on the stage and what voices do I hear is I always begin before, whether it's teaching like a multi day thing or just speaking on stage for 45 minutes. I take the time to get quiet before I go on the stage and connect with myself, the real me, just by being silent and being calm for a couple of minutes. All of those other voices that are in the head, floating around, thoughts in a critic, whatever it is, starts to come down and quiet down. And then I begin with saying out loud to myself what my intention is for this audience. And depending on the talk or the training, it could be a different intention. But the most powerful intentions that I set up for myself are the ones that come from my heart, that are for the servicing of the audience. I'm here, not for my own ego gratification. In fact, if it was about my ego, I would never would have gone on stage in the first place, right. And force myself to go through these pain struggling lessons of knowing how to speak on the stage. But it comes from my heart for a higher purpose of something that's even bigger than myself. What can they get out of it? What can I say? And I can never predict. You've probably had this experience too. You speak for an hour, then that one word you say at minute 38 and 25 seconds made a difference for somebody. You can't predict what words you come out of your mouth. It's going to make the difference for people, right? But the intention is there. And so the words that, that I'm saying, I can't, I don't even know exactly what words I'm going to say. I know the highlight points that I'm going to want to make. But it's the energy behind the words which come from that intention of my heart to serve them that is going to show up. I'm going to show up differently as a person when I'm coming from that intention than if I'm just going up nonchalant. Oh, well, words are going to come out of my mouth, whatever, then it's going to come across that way. So when the intention is at the forefront of my mind, my heart embodiment, I, my way of being shifts into something else that I could not create if I was coming from those little voices.

Yes.

So to answer your question, those little voices almost disappear. There are times when I've spoken on stage for an hour, two hours, a whole day even, and then it seemed like it was like five minutes because the whole presence was there. I wasn't even, you know, taking log of exactly, you know, analytically. My left brain was kind of shut down because I was completely just being with them.

Exactly. And this is what I was. I was wanting to hear you say, which was just. I was craving it. Because at the beginning the voice is present and the voice is, is not. It doesn't go away entirely. But in all the talks that I've given all over the world, and it was in China and we had 12,000 people there during an event I did with Tony Robbins, and in Japan, we had 7 or 8,000 in Taiwan and all over the place, these massive groups of people and then small, small groups. The one thing that's been consistent is that the voice that you're talking about isn't present on stage. It was at the beginning because that's the voice of self consciousness. That's the voice of not being confident, not being open, vulnerable, willing to be vulnerable, willing to be open. That's the voice that does not have firm intentions that anchor the reason behind why you're there doing what you're doing kind of thing. And these are really fundamentally ways in which not only will we be better at being human, being people, being peaceful, as examples of peace, as models of peace when we stand on stage, but they're also very much trainings for how to be a better person off the stage. That's what I find. The little voice is more with me when I'm not on stage than when I'm on stage, in fact, on stage. The interesting thing is it's a rest for me, it's a rest from the voice, the inner critic, when I'm on stage because it's such a giving. It's such a point of service. It's such a point of intentionality. That voice is there to say things like, don't tell that story. We don't have time for that story. Story. Oh, oh, you're going down that road. You're gonna go down that road. Okay, go down that road. You can't stop it now. Here it comes. You know, it's. It's. It's little like statements internally like that, you know, but they're not statements like, you idiot or right, you know, what are you. What are you doing? Or, you know, you don't have the idiot right to, you know, talk about God or talk about business when you know, yeah, you've made all these mistakes. So what gives you the right? I mean, any number of things that would otherwise get in the way of showing up, of playing a bigger being a bigger and better version of yourself and of myself, those things actually go way in that environment. And yes, does it take time? You pointed out, in fact, the training you were just at, I think we were together a little less than two weeks ago. We talk about this training of becoming a speaker, becoming a leader. Speakers are teachers, and teachers are leaders. And we need more leaders in our world. And to be that, we've got to put in the time. We've got to do our 10,000 hours. Plus plus, plus of practicing of, as you used the word iterations earlier, there's got to be more iterations of that confronting our little voice, of confronting our insecurities about speaking up, about being heard, about having an opinion and sharing that opinion. And again, as long as it comes from this place that resides inside of our heart, which is a place of service, place of what our highest intentions, our true intentions are when it comes from that place, yes, the words are there. They're not always perfect, but the words are there. The energy is there, the love is there, the connection, the presence is there. And that's what takes time and it takes practice. It's being mentored and coached. And that's why I love that you do that and such a wonderful thing. I want to ask you, Mary, because we've known each other for a while, and it was so kind of you to make reference to our relationship in the book. If you could share with me and with our folks what it is that you've gained from just recently. And I love this about you. You've taught all these people, you've been on stages and. And shared this work with others and coached people through it, and yet you're still a Student of it, you're still learning. I think that's so important that we not miss that point. So whatever it was, less than two weeks ago, we spent three days in a masterclass. What was that like for you?

Yeah, that's a good point. And I'll start by Ann saying this. My philosophy around learning and it doesn't matter what topic it is, I am always a beginner. That is my attitude. I'm always a beginner. As you pointed out, even though I've trained thousands and thousands of people, I'm always a beginner. And there's a Zen saying called the beginner's mind. And I resonate with that 100%. The reason being is on the path of mastery. And I talk about this in my book. The path of mastery is not a linear process. It's. It is more like an infinity symbol. And you can go around and around, around in this infinity symbol which look looks like a sideways number eight. Because there's. No matter what level you're at currently, there's always another level. There's always another level. And it, by the way, it just, it's not just with the public speaking, it's with anything that you learn from, from scratch. I had that experience with learning martial arts, for example. The first, you know, X number of months that you begin picking up a new skill, you're always, there's always going to be that time when you feel self conscious. There's always going to be that time when you feel insecure and going, what am I doing here? This is not for me. I'm never good at this. You know, whatever it is, that phase of learning will always be there no matter what it is that you learning. So in essence, we're working on ourselves because we are the common denominator amongst all the different skills that we're working on. So working on you, working on me, working on our self acceptance is going to translate across all areas. And that's kind of what I wanted to say before going into what I got out of the class. When I, when I took this heart of enrollment course with you, I had no idea what, what I was going to learn. I just, and I said this to Deanna, one of the your staff members. I said I don't really even. I know I'm definitely going to learn a lot. I don't even know what it is, but I just want to hang out with Adam and Randy because you know, they, whatever it is that they're going to come out of their mouth, I know I'm Going to learn something. And so I wasn't anticipating what I was going to learn, but what I got out of it was so powerful for me. I actually had a breakthrough. I don't even think we had a chance at the end to speak about this. I had a breakthrough. And the breakthrough, I don't know if you remember when I shared on stage during the training when I stood up and shared what my authentic voice was. Because you had us do go through this process of what our authentic voice is. As much as I thought I was clear on it, I got extra, extra clear on it this time. And how I knew with all of my heart and soul that it resonated with me 1000% was the moment I said it. I felt this energy like just rise in me and vibrate within me. I was like shaking from excitement from being so aligned with this authentic voice that I. That I always knew I wanted to, you know, create but didn't. Couldn't quite articulate it in words as succinctly as that. And if I could so share with. Can I share that with people here?

My goodness, yes, please.

So my authentic voice is to awaken the power of your soul. And what that is, is you are so much more powerful than you think you are. Specifically, who I want to help step up into the. In this world, heart centered individuals. Heart centered individuals who are ready to step up to the next level of their leadership. So whether it's emerging leaders or people who are already in leadership positions who want to take it to the next level. Heart centered. And why I feel so strongly about that is I've lived a lot of my life being head centered.

Yes.

And what I'm realizing very quickly in my latest pivot into doing this full time and making a bigger impact in the world is the biggest impact that I'm going to make is when I follow my heart and create such as this authentic voice I just shared with you that comes directly from my heart, from my spirit source, from my spirit. However you want to put it from another place, that's not my head. Right. And so to summarize this whole journey of moving, there was another author that I. That I had seen give a speech. I forget his name, so I can't give him credit for it. He said this and it really resonated. Just like 10 plus years ago I heard this. It's still with me. The longest distance are the 15 inches between your head and your heart.

Yeah.

And that to me has been a long journey.

It is, it is for so many people. I took some notes as you were just writing, as you were speaking, I was writing. And I very much appreciate the breakthrough that you, that you had during our training because is so important that we get clear on what our voice is. In fact, what we teach is that. And this is not the typical order of things. People want to build a brand. They want to get on their work, on their marketing. They want to know what to say, what their message, you know what it is they want to say to get people to buy their product or service. And we've simplified it and I think it's distilled down and still could use some further refinement, I'm sure. But I love, I love how simple it is, which is that when you're clear on your voice, you, you know what you want to say. I mean, people, it's not, we're not that unclear about what it is we actually want to say. We speak all the time. It's just a question of getting clear on what it is you want to say and what. What you also wish that voice, that. Those words, how you wish those. Those words to land with people, how you want people to receive that. That information. And so you got clear on what your voice is, that it is to empower an awakening in the souls of other people. It's profound. When you know what you want to say, that message becomes the marketing tool for you. So, meaning your voice leads to your messenger, message informs you who is meant to hear the message. Meaning you ask the question, who's meant to hear this message that tells you who your marketplace is? And when you know who your marketplace is, this, the question that we, we ask then is, what's the best way to serve that group of people? What's the best way to serve that tribe? And the product that is the result of that inquiry becomes the way to solve a problem, create a solution to a pain, to move somebody from point A to point B. So it's your voice that leads to your message, that leads to the market, that leads to the product. Whereas most people are looking at, well, I want to sell this thing, or I have this product, and now what's the best way for me to market it? What's the message I can create to develop an interest in this product in other people? And it's, it's a bit backwards because ultimately we will not be fulfilled, we will not be satisfied until we are being seen and being heard. That's what. When Oprah described all the years that she spent on TV doing her Oprah show, she said the most important thing as for her as a takeaway, as the indication of the success of her time on the air, was that people felt seen, people felt heard, and people knew that their lives mattered. And those three things were the legacy of her shows. Well, to me, when you know your authentic voice, not just your voice, but you have clarity about your authentic voice, and then therefore, you know what you wish to say and who's meant to hear, what it is that you wish to say and what it is that you wish to do to serve that community of people. You have a business, you have a business, but you have so much more than a business. You have a calling. Stage is a wonderful place to develop that calling and to develop that business. So regardless of whether people have a business, a traditional business, or they're working for someone else, or, you know, working as an employee, I think everybody, and I make no exceptions to this, whether they're kids, whether they're 80 or 90 years old. If you've never developed the skills of speaking, of public speaking, of being able to speak as a visionary, as a leader, it's one of the most profound skills to develop. It takes some time, it takes some commitment, as we as we know. It takes a commitment to that life, to that process, which is even a lifelong process that you described. But it is profound. As you said, breakthroughs come in places you can't even predict. And it is amazing. I use myself just as an example. I'm an introvert. People would probably never guess that, but the way I define that is I get my energy. When I'm wanting to recharge my battery, I go inside and I want to be alone or I want to be with just my beautiful wife, Randy, or with our kids or something, but I want to be. And yet I've spent so much time with thousands of people and put myself on stage. And the reason that I do that is get over myself. I get, and you said it earlier, I get over the fact that I'm an introvert because my higher purpose and my calling is to be a channel for love. And so when I speak, I want my words to land with the object of opening hearts. My intention is that any speaking I do, regardless of where it is or what it is, that it will open heart, that it will open hearts. And so therefore, the introvert me, the shy me, the insecure or self conscious me, the me that was bullied when I was 8 years old and all that kind of thing, it recedes. It has to, because it has no place. It has no place in leadership. And when we stand on a stage and we open our mouths with an intention to. To convey love or what, or to empower a soul, as is the calling of your voice, then that little critic, that inner voice, that insecure or bullied person or that victim or whatever that is, it goes and waits in the wings, which is truly remarkable. Mary, I've so enjoyed our conversation. I really have. And I not just enjoy the conversation, but I enjoy who you are in the world and the model that you are, that you are, what you are modeling and how you're spreading a message.

Thank you. Thank you. I just want to add to that, to what you just said. I think from somebody who's listening and perhaps hadn't got to that stage of being able to just completely eradicate the little voice, the inner critic, and be able to speak from that space, I wanted to emphasize that it's a symbiotic relationship. So it's like two sides of the same coin. On one side of the coin is working on your relationship with yourself. So the process of that complete self acceptance so that you can, on the other side of the coin, become from that place of self acceptance and serve others. Right. And so. And you know, for the listeners that are listening to this, I don't want to leave them with the impression accidentally that, hey, I'm completely over my inner critic. You know, that always comes up when I'm outside my own comfort zone. Right. So the point I'm making here is to always. My recommendation and suggestion to everybody listening is to always observe what's going on in your own head. Like, how are you speaking to yourself? What's the dialogue that you're using? Because that'll tell you everything you need to know as to exactly what state you're in in that moment. And you can then have an opportunity to shift it. So, for example, there are times when, you know, I have, for example, I have two speaking engagements coming up in a row. Then the night before, in my head, I'm saying, oh, I don't want to feel like it's gonna take so much energy to get there. I just want to stay in sleep tonight or. Or I just want to, you know, hang out because it's snowing outside. And this resistance that goes on in my head, in my internal dialogue, and I'm like, yeah, okay, I get that's what's going on, and I totally get it and let that pass. And then it passes just like clouds in the sky. And then I'm on, like, you know, Time, time to speak in front of. I'm on. You know, there's this moment where you just shift, right. So I'm mentioning that because I wanted to be clear that it's not a one time done deal and you're forever done and you're consistently present all the time. All the time. That's not how I experience it.

Mary, is your, is your inner critic? Does it sound like a whiny kid?

It depends. It depends. Sometimes it sounds like a whiny kid, sometimes it sounds like a bit of more of a bully.

Mary, does it, does it have an accent or no accent?

You know what, I have to look into that. I'll get back to you on that. Sometimes it even speaks to me in Chinese, which is when I really know that it's coming from a different place because I don't usually think Chinese.

Well, yesterday with Alan, I asked him, he's written books about fear and I asked him at this stage in his life what's been the most prevalent fear. So I think questions are really important, including the way the voice sounds. So it is intriguing, you know, how does the voice sound? What does it sound like? Does it have an accent? Is it familiar? Does it sound like your mother or your mother in law or, or some teacher that you had when you were in third grade? What is the voice of that critic? But we'll save that for another day. Mary, it's been a blast to have you on the show. Really truly appreciate everything that you've shared and for our listeners, again, I think Mary and I both, we sit on the side of wanting you to get off the sidelines. If, if this is of interest to you, great. If it's not, it may just not be time. But our world is so in need of more leaders and speaking is a great vehicle to lead. So whether it's again in the office or it's in small groups elsewhere, it's at your BNI group or, you know, it's in a meetup or it's something bigger that you're looking to experience and, and maybe get paid to speak or speak at association meetings or charitable functions. Whatever it is. It would be wonderful to get yourself off that, get off this being on a bucket list or a to do list or something like that. Make it front and center, present yourself in public. Speaking is Mary's book, Mary Sheen's book. And it will be a part of our show notes where you can get that book. Find out more about Mary, more about the work that she's doing and of course as always, so happy and again, very grateful that you are part of this community now. And hopefully you're getting great value out of these podcasts and the pivot stories and the inspirations of people that you've maybe heard of and people you've never heard of. And that's just wonderful. So please share the wealth, share the podcast with others. If you've not yet subscribed, please subscribe. Leave a review on itunes. We love the reviews, love the feedback. I mean, I know that's one of the things we just did during our part of enrollment, Our weekend masterclass in public speaking is we taught this very important feedback loop. And it's so important that we be open to receive feedback and that we have a process and even a technique for giving feedback to other people so that it doesn't have to be something that you're afraid of, you shy away from, but rather it's something that's so valuable, eat it up with a spoon and a knife. And a fork. The feedback piece, Mary, was that valuable to you this past weekend?

Absolutely. I'm always a sponge. I'm just a constant sponge. So I sponge in anything that. That I haven't. That something, an insight that I triggered, you know, that you helped me trigger. Very valuable. Like I said, beginner's mind keeps me humble. It keeps me true to my heart. And so I'm a constant learner. And anything you create, any programs you create in the future, I'm there.

And specifically, Mary, in a group like we had, which is intimate, we just work pretty closely with about 12 people. Was it valuable to have other people, people that you knew and people that you've never met before, provide you with honest feedback? Did it feel credible? Was it useful? Was it confronting in a negative way, or was it positive? What was just real quick, what was your experience of the feedback?

It was definitely very valuable. The way I've trained myself to receive feedback is. And the way I train my students to receive feedback is treated as a gift. So it's like a gift that someone gives you. Let's say you open up the present and it's this really ugly shirt. And in your mind, you're like, oh, God, I would never wear this shit shirt. But then they're still standing there. So you go, oh, thank you. Thank you so much. You know, and then it's up to you to decide what to do with the shirt later. Do you, you know, re gift it or do you recycle it, or do you, you know, wear it at home, whatever. So when people give me feedback, I always filter it through that mind. It's a wonderful gift. Thank you, you know, for giving it to me and let me run it through to see if it makes sense to me. And if it resonates with me, I will definitely use it and try it on. And if it doesn't resonate with me for whatever reason, I'll say, oh, maybe I'll another time. So I've trained myself not to take feedback personally and in that sense it's all valuable. But I mean, what I received from that weekend was amazing because it was a new story that I was working on. So don't just feel like, oh, I've got all my stories done and everything's great. There's always new material that I'm working on that I want to continue mastering.

I grew up in a house that was pretty, pretty open. I mean, it was open to my ideas and things like that. But when there was criticism or feedback, it sometimes was harsh. And I think there's a lot of people out there that have experienced harsh criticism and are afraid to receive criticism from people and, or critique or feedback. And calling it feedback doesn't make it less harsh. You call something feedback as to really damage somebody or be coming from a place that's just not very heart centered. But what I love about the process that we teach is that it makes it almost impossible for it to be received personally or for it to be delivered in a way that's harsh. Now clearly the people that we kind of cultivate in this community are not really harsh people to begin with, but we all again have been trained and programmed to deliver our opinion in ways that sometimes can land as judgment and be delivered as judgment. And so you brought up judgment earlier and obviously the hardest part is for most of us is self judgment. But in the way that you format feedback, I think you can, you can take the judgment element out of it. And that's what we love about that. So speaking of no judgment zones, our community on Facebook is called startmypivot. And you can get there by going to pivotfb.com obviously you can just search for it on Facebook as well at startmypivotcommunity on Facebook or take the shortcut URL pivotfb.com which will take you to the front door. And that is clearly you'll find out when you're admitted. We curate the community for a reason and the people there are super heart centered and are vulnerable about where they are in their pivot, in their transitions, whether they're career transitions, their public speaking related transition, their personal, their health, their relationships. But people are really just wonderfully open and vulnerable in that space. And that's because part of the context for what happens there on that page is that we don't judge. So there's this no judgment zone. And that's really wonderful and open. So again, if you're interested in that kind of support and you're willing to also give support as well as receive it, then that community would be a beautiful thing for you as well. I want to end our podcast as we began, with gratitude, with appreciation. I am appreciation for all of you out there. I may not be able to see you at the moment. You may be watching me and Mary right now or listening, but we are certainly connected, whether we can or can't see each other. We're connected through our breath. We're connected through our mutual intentions, which I know are loving intentions. And I'm going to wave this magic wand, which I get to do on the show. And I really appreciate that, the fact that I have the power, this sort of pseudo power, to be able to set a powerful intention not just for myself, but on behalf of all of us. And that is tomorrow you wake up. That you wake up and I wake up, Mary. That you wake up. That we are woken up a bit more than we are today. That our minds are more open and our consciousness is raised, that our awareness is heightened, that our presence is greater, that our belief in ourselves and in the possibility of our lives, as well as the possibility of all of the lives of all of our brothers and sisters sharing this planet with us at this time, that those things are realized. And that as we take that first morning breath, that first conscious breath deeply, that we realize how sacred and important that breath is. Because in that moment, there are people taking their very last breath, as has been pointed out to me. There's also people that are being born, that are taking their very first breath in that moment. So what a beautiful moment. What a moment to be grateful for. So, yes, wake up, take that deep breath, be in gratitude. And if you're inclined to say these words out loud, I start my day every day with them. It's part of my morning ritual. I say, I love my life. I love my life. I love my life. I certainly wish that for all of you. Have a beautiful rest of your day. Blessings, wherever you are. We'll see you soon. Thanks for listening, everyone. We hope you now have the tools and greater insights to navigate your own pivot. Help us inspire others by sharing this episode and leaving your comments over@adammarkel.com podcasts for more tips, strategies and support as you consciously pivot into a new business and lifestyle you love. Join our Pivot community on facebook@pivotfb.com it.