Pivotal Learning, Resilience, And Marriage With Howie Zales

Life happens, and not always the way we expect it to. Every single day we face change, stress and uncertainty. What if you could learn to thrive no matter what life throws your way? Resilience expert Adam Barkel and his inspiring guests explore breakthrough strategies to fully embrace change and build the resilience required to become change Proof.

Hey everybody, it's Adam Markel. Welcome back to another episode of the Change Proof podcast. I've got a great guest today. His name is Howie Zales and Howie is an Emmy award winning camera operator who started his career at the NFL Network and NBC Sports. His passion for broadcasting led him to found Viridity Entertainment Services, a streaming and professionally recorded in house production service offering TV quality live streams to corporations. Clients include T Mobile, Capital One, the Food Network and the hip hop group Salt and Pepper. I know you're going to love my conversation with Howie Zale. Sit back and enjoy. All right, Howie, so it's always fun to listen to your own bio, right? And you've had a very sort of a storied career, very different things, but there's a common thread through line. I would say that we'll talk about today, but my first question is really what's not in the bio? So what is one thing? We'll keep it simple. One simple, one singular thing. It's not in your intro or your bio that you would love for people to know about you.

Yeah, the most important thing to me is my family, my wife, my kids. And I've had the greatest career that, you know, people could have. I'll go to parties and there's doctors, lawyers, whatever there. And all people want to talk about are TV sports. What, what is it like to meet Michael Jordan and like athletes. And to me, I loved what I did, but family is the most important thing.

Yeah, I'm with you there. So let's, let's just say we have something in common to begin with. You've done a lot of traveling, I imagine, through your career, right?

Time.

Yeah, yeah. At one point, like the old cliche or whatever. It's like if they could put a zip code on a plane, you know, that would have been my mailing address for, for some time. Which is fun. I mean, I love to travel to this day. But, but getting home is really, you know, that's, that's we're all after. Right. So let's talk about where you're, where the career more sort of a circuitous route to where you are now. But let's not start with where you are currently. Let's go Back a ways. You know, not randomly, but pick a spot. Know, is there an inflection point? I think right before we hit record, I, I, you know, was showing you a copy of a book I wrote some years ago. This is the second edition of this in paperback now called Pivot. So, you know, pivoting is, is a word of, in, in use today. It was sort of a word of art. When, when I wrote that book, I thought it was an interesting way to, to talk about it. And frankly, you know, pivot has such a business connotation. But when I was. Was thinking about the title of this book about reinvention, personal and professional reinvention. Having been a lawyer for a couple of dozen years before that book, I thought about basketball. That was the first concept for me. I grew up in a house where basketball is a major, major sport. My dad loved it. He played in college. And it said. It hurts to even say it to this day. I mean, it still hurts to say I'm a Knicks fan and I'm still.

Somehow join, Join the club.

It's literally brutal, right? And it's only gotten more brutal. And I get to see Spike Lee. We live half the year on the east coast and half the year in California. So I get to where I live on the East Coast, I get to see him fairly often. And it's, you know, it's brutal. I mean, I don't go to the games like he does and scream and yell and, you know, he's got quite a celebrity. But his pain is great.

Yes, yes. We all share the same pain.

We all share that same pain. So in basketball, there's this idea. Idea or not? This idea. This. There's a move called the pivot, right? Basically on one foot, you can, you can rotate all the way around 360 degrees on one foot and not, you know, violate the rules, not be traveling or walking or anything like that. And you could see the whole court. So when I started writing this book and. Or actually more like when it was almost finished and trying to describe what the concept of a pivot is from us, from the standpoint of seeing, seeing the court, being able to see what your options are before you make that next move, whether it's to pass, shoot what, you know, whatever, right? I want to get to that, that pivot point earlier on in your, in your career or, you know, even in education, wherever it might be. So what, what does that look like now that I've given you plenty of time to think about?

Yeah, no, my career has been. Cluster of Pivots. I wanted to play professional baseball in high school, and I knew I needed a backup plan. There was one. I had one spot for an elective, and the course description that I was looking at said it was a TV production class. And the description said a trip to NBC studios with a tour and to watch a TV show being taped. So I was like, well, how bad can that be, right? And. And I ended up falling in love with television, television production. And I already had loved sports and especially baseball. So I knew I had to combine these two, you know, these two passions of mine. And what better way to do that in a career? So I only looked for colleges that had TV sports. But it was, it's a difficult industry to get into. And then I ended up taking a job on Long island right out of college as a production assistant. But I pivoted right out of that production assistant job to become the lead editor at that company. Because when I did an internship in college, I learned how to use the same equipment at that internship that this production company had. So when their editor left, it was like a natural progression right into that job. But I hated it. And I took a job eventually shooting TV news and in the field with a reporter. But to anyone that would listen, I would tell them my ultimate goal was to be a sports camera operator. I want to shoot sports. And because of basketball, I would watch the NBA on NBC. All throughout college, I knew that I wanted to work for NBC Sports. That, that was, that was my goal. And one day someone, ESPN called the newsroom because they were doing a basketball game and a camera operator got sick. So they were in desperate need because I would tell anyone that would listen what I wanted to do. They said, yeah, we have someone that, that is dying to do this. So that, that was my first job in TV sports. Wow.

So you, you get a random call, or if you believe in random.

Yeah, there's no such thing.

Yeah, you get this call, say, hey, you know, this is, this is the day. Yep, you're ready to get behind the camera. So you're about what age at this point?

So I'd say 24. And I, and then I continued to do local. That job became another job, became another job, so on and so forth. And I met a mentor and I got, I was getting enough work where I gave up the news job and was. Became a full time freelance, full time freelance camera operator. And about two years into that, from doing sports, and I, I drive to Boston, do a few days in Boston, Celtics, Bruins, Red Sox, depending on the season, then do a few days in New York. And then one day, I got called by an outside company to do a horse race, and the race was airing on NBC Sports from Belmont Park. And because it was airing on NBC, they sent their top director at the time, John Gonzales, who had done many Super Bowls. He did the NBA on NBC and whatever other events. And I did a really good job. I hustled and. And, you know, I gave him more than he asked for. And this is in 2000. He said, hey, you know how you did a great job? We're starting this new football league in February called the xfl. He said, would you like to be a part of it? I said, yeah, that sounds awesome. He said, why don't you come to Notre Dame? Because, you know, Notre Dame football airs on NBC Sports. We'll see how your football skills are. If you do a good job, we'd love to have you on the crew. And I ended up shooting Notre Dame football for over 20 years. I did the XFL that season, and then wherever John Gonzalez went, Howie Zales went. And I am so grateful for that.

Yeah. I mean, he was a mentor. I'm assuming that's.

Yeah, yeah.

So you've answered the question, really. I was gonna. How important are mentors? I think today maybe more than ever before, because it feels to me, and I'm saying this with some. Well, not just personal experience, but just professionally speaking. Our own organization works with other organizations. Work. Well, our company works with companies that are looking to make changes within their structure. And often those changes have to do with employee engagement and productivity and things. The usual stuff. Right. But.

Right.

What I see in that space is less and less mentorship, and clearly the pandemic is the culprit there. I mean, you know, I. I haven't researched that as part of our research. We haven't gone back to Seawell. Was mentorship on the decline before the pandemic? Is this just the continuation of a trend? Let's say I don't think that's the case, but I can't. I can't. You know, as I'm speaking to you, I can't say one way. Right, right. But I'm getting. I want to get your thoughts on this. So, you know, I see that the mentorship is. Is for younger people coming into the workforce now. People like when. When you came in, you met Gonzalez, you know, that. That. That was so important to you. Pivotal. Do you see that? Do you see that? Mentorship is something that's just lacking in the environments that you're around and. Any thoughts on that?

Yeah, especially in our field because it's, it's, it's a difficult job. You can't really practice nowhere to practice your skills. So a mentorship or shadowing and, and having a mentor coach and teach is so important. And I actually started a course and mentor. Mentor people because it's so difficult to get, get that in our industry.

Interesting. And again, I don't, I don't know what the trend is here, but clearly because people are in many ways working differently and, and, and remotely and in hybrid situations etc, you know, the opportunity through zoom, like, I mean, to be mentoring somebody over a virtual platform is possible. It. But it is a little different, no.

Yes.

Than, than when you're right there in proximity and because a lot of those mentorship moments are not really planned even. I mean, I think they can be planned and, and often that is some, some of the advice that, that we give and that we can assist in implementing. But the fact of the matter is that that often it's those unexpected conversations, those ones that happen just because you're in proximity to somebody else, you're on the job together and you right something and then there's a question that comes up or there's a, you know, there's an F up and, and that moment becomes, you know, a pivotal point of learning because something has gone sideways and then, well, pivot that you have to make in the moment is the one that becomes the great, a great teacher.

And to your point, I mentored this, this guy, Sean, and you know, he started out as a utility on TV production shows and I gave him as much advice as possible. And I said, during your lunch, during your lunch hour, pick up the camera, play with the camera, ask all the questions you can possibly imagine because one day someone's going to show, not show up and be sick and you're going to be on that show as a utility. I'm going to be able to call the client, said, I have a, I have a solution to the problem because Sean's there. He knows how to use the camera. He knows the sport. Perfect. Fill in, we're covered. Lo and behold, that happened. Sean got his hockey debut because one of our camera operators got sick. And now Sean is one of the best camera operators in the country, working Sunday Night Football for NBC Sports. So having, you know, it just goes to your point about, you know, having mentorship, pivoting when called upon or when need be, you know, is huge.

Another thing that you and I have in common is that I'm, I'm often on stages for corporate events and those, those events are, are mostly filmed. Not always, but, but a lot of times they're filmed for training purposes, but also they're live streamed out to groups of people that didn't, didn't make it, couldn't make it, you know, didn't feel comfortable making it, etc. You do that work as well, right? Your, your company provides that sort of, that, that live stream service and everything that surrounds that is. Yes, understanding.

So our, our company, Viridity Entertainment or ves, we provide hybrid or in hybrid in person or virtual live stream and event production. We do it for all different types of events. Sporting events, concerts, corporate meetings, conferences, exposure, all sorts of things.

Yeah, it's a, there's a lot of things that can go wrong in the, in, in the production in a live production like that. Isn't that right?

Yeah, ton, A ton can go wrong. But what we find is that with the, with a data set up, slash rehearse, we iron out all the bugs. We tell the client we're going to make, we're going to try to make every mistake possible. So we figure out what can go, what can, what can possibly go wrong. So we have a solution for that fire drill. We may look like we have no idea what we're doing right now, but we know what we're doing and we're doing it on purpose because we just want to. If, you know, if this should happen, what is our solution? And that typically the worst rehearsals turn out to be the best shows.

Yeah, I had one just last week for a bank. I'm not going to mention their name. Just. I don't know that I have approval to do that, but big bank. And we had our tech check our, our rehearsal for this and it was a virtual event for a couple thousand people. So, you know, it was a small little gathering, you know, very intimate. We didn't want anything to go wrong the day of. Of course, never want to have to pivot in the moment, primarily for time reasons. I mean there's always, there are solutions. I, I had one happen just two weeks ago where I was at a Four Seasons hotel. Beautiful hotel. Love Four Seasons. Amazing, amazing group of folks. But they had an Internet issue there and I couldn't believe it. And I literally had to go back and forth between a hardwire and, and a, and a, you know, virtual, you know, a. What do you call it? A. It was still an Internet connection but it was not hardwired.

So. Oh, by WI fi Yeah, thank you.

Thanks. A WI FI connection and a hardwire and literally at the toggle, back and forth probably seven times during an hour long presentation. Because when one of those would cut out, the other one was available. Don't ask me how that was the case, but that was the case. And, and the clue that I would get as I was in the middle of my presentation, which we, we, you know, in an hour. There's a lot that I want to cover and I don't want to lose time with logistics or with lots of speakers. Know this. You just don't, you just don't waste time with filler, filler words and things that just don't add value to an audience. They're paying you a lot to be there and you're just gonna value, value, value the whole way through. So I would get this little tiny circle that would show me that it was cutting out and I would literally, exactly. And I would literally go up and I would switch the connection and then it would be about a 10 second delay and they realized what was going on. And I would pick up my sentence exactly where I left it off, you know, when that little circle appeared. And, and it was a great demonstration is what we were told by the organizers of it, of what resilience looks like. You know, at least technically in, in that moment and, and certainly in a, you know, in a live event like with this bank the other day, that rehearsal day was a total disaster. Everything that could go wrong with the systems just seemed to go wrong. I mean, and inexplicably so, you know, when technology. I was an attorney for a lot of years, so I believe in logic, but it's so funny that tech just seems to defy logic at times.

Yes.

So, but without that, without that, that, you know, the, the day of it all kind of imploding, we wouldn't have had a flawless day the next day, which is what occurred.

Right.

Yeah. So talk to me about resiliency in the work that you do, the resiliency in. Because there isn't a lot of margin for error in those events when you're the, and look, the AV guys are. I, I am always so sensitive to them because I'll say that, for example, I'll say I want to control my mic pack. And it's going to sound silly, right, But I, if I need to cough, clear my throat or whatever, I, I don't want to cover my mouth in the mic. I want to be able to mute myself and then unmute. And it's a simple Thing, right? But they don't like to give up control of that mic path. So, so I say to them, I go, listen, I'm going to be responsible. I'll be a good boy. I know exactly what happens. If for some reason, you know, I turn it off, then don't turn it on or whatever. Everybody's going to turn around and look at you, right? So much pressure on the guys that are sitting behind the black skirting, right? You're smiling and laughing, right? But you know what I'm talking about. Everybody's going to point a finger. It could be that the idiot on stage, like, can't use the freaking clicker, doesn't know how to find the forward button versus the backward button or, or turn the freaking thing off. I mean, there's a million ways that somebody who's on that stage can mess it up, but they're all going to look at the guys in the booth as though it's on them. Is that.

Yeah.

Yes.

So here, here's a perfect example. You know Greg Norman, the golfer and the new golf league live golf.

Yes.

We did the, we did the live stream announcement for that from New York City from a hotel space. They wouldn't let us into the room to set up the day before until 5pm they wouldn't let us come for a site survey to check the Internet speed. We get there, get into the room. The Internet is very. Is lacking, to say the least. They. We finally get set up in a place where we're not really happy with, but where it's doable. And we asked to rehearse with Greg Norman because he's the prime speaker and he has PowerPoint slides and he will not rehearse. No way. We're told. And no one will stand in for him. The next morning we get there, he will not rehearse. I go up to him, I give him the clicker for the slides and will not rehearse. And all of a sudden, at the beginning, keeps pressing the button, keeps pressing the button, advancing the slides, advancing the slides. Then his part, his person comes over and says, we're lost. I'm like, you know, we begged you to rehearse. Begged. It was a disaster. It was so embarrassing.

Listen, I won't take our conversation in this direction, but, and, and for the, you know, we have a good sized audience, but it's not like millions and millions of people are going to hear this anyway. So I have a very definite opinion about Liv Golf. I'm a golfer, I love it. And I have a very Distinct opinion about Greg Norman. So I guess it couldn't happen to a nicer guy is what I would say.

It was embarrassing for us as the production company, but. Yeah. And to your point, when where everyone looks at is us, but we really had no control over it, you know, I apologize.

That sucks. Yeah. I mean.

Yeah.

Well, I would ask you, I will ask you, what's the most difficult situation you ever found yourself in like that, that you also found a miracle. Like, you know, you found your way out of that. Just looking at it at the moment seemed like it was nothing short of miraculous.

Yeah, I guess we. We did a live event in Orlando. We shipped our equipment down there, and when we opened up the cases, it looked like someone tried to steal them or they were just turned inside out. All this equipment. And literally one of the only things that got us on the air was I traveled three backup, a whole backup system in my carry on because I always have a backup to the backup, to the backup. So we literally just made air. But it's because we planned for a backup that we were able to make air.

Yeah. So I asked you earlier about resiliency, and I'm guessing that what you just described is somehow connected to your organization's resiliency.

Absolutely. And surrounding myself with people that are a lot smarter than I am, if I'm the smartest person in the room, we have a definite problem. If my IT engineer and I hire a core group of people that are all freelance or they work when needed. If he's not available and then my backup person's not available for a job, I'll turn it down. Because I'm not going to put our company name on the line without the best people being available to work on it. It's just not worth it.

Now. It's so true. There's wisdom in that. I mean, to turn down business, to turn down money for a business, you know, small, medium, large. I mean, it's just not a. Not a thing typically done if you don't have to. But it, like you said, when, when the team is so important, if you can't work with your team, your A team and you maybe, you know, have a second line or third line of a team players, you know, people that you'd be comfortable putting in the seat. Right. You know, if you can't work with those people. Yeah. You really do put your brand, you put your reputation, you put so much on the line when. When you have to go. Go a different route.

Yeah, we, we did an event in New York City for Ray Ban sunglasses. And they said they had an IT person there on site, but their version of an IT person and what a real IT person is were two different things. Their Internet systems was controlled by their parent company who was located in Italy. We were on the phone from New York City with Italy trying to fix their Internet because they couldn't do it here from New York in the building. And again, it almost didn't make air. But because of our smart people, we were able to come up with a workaround.

Yeah, yeah, it is. It's so important. Well, let me ask you. I got my own opinion, but I want to get yours. What is. What's the most important quality in. In one of those team players to you?

Someone that's not willing to give up, you know, till the solution is found there to remain calm, cool, collected and professional. Yeah, I don't. I don't need someone screaming and yelling, flipping out. I just need you to remain calm, cool, collected and professional.

Yeah, that's a good collection of things. I. I was just thinking you really just have to. You truly have to be the eye of the storm. I appreciate that. In every scenario in my life, whether it's in personal matters or it's in purely professional stuff, that, that people that no matter how extreme the weather, you know, the wind is blowing or the chaos feel, you know, the uncertainty, whatever it might be, that there's a. There's this. This calm. Because only good. To me, only good comes from that. From.

Well, that's the kind of name of my. How I got the name of my company, which is a weird name, Variety. But I went to a mastermind and one of the opening things that they talked about was when things go really, really well in business or in life and you react really quickly, positively, it's called being in the blue zone. And conversely, if things go really, really bad and quickly you become angry or you can't handle it, that's called being in the red. But if you're even keeled, no matter what the situation is, it's called being in the green zone. So I came home and I told my wife, we need to find some word that means green, but that. That's not money related because that would be obnoxious. So we. My wife came up with the name Viridity, and it kind of flowed with entertainment services.

Yeah, I like it. Thanks for explaining that too. It's. That makes total sense. Yeah, it's. It's verdant.

Yeah.

You know, and in. In Italian, I think it's verde. Exactly. And maybe that's what happened with the people from, from Ray Ban, you know, their parent company. We were up for a gig for them some years ago and I can't remember their parent name, but.

Exotica.

Exotica, that's right. That's who it is. They're, they're massive. I mean, I think they might be the biggest eyeglass manufacturer in the world, frankly.

Yeah. Yeah.

I say nice things about exact.

Yeah.

Cool. So just on the personal side, how long are you married?

This is our second married 10 years. We just celebrate our 10th anniversary.

Beautiful. Beautiful. So when it comes to resiliency in terms of that relationship and feel free to not answer, this is too personal. What, what is. What creates that resilience in, in this marriage? The second go around. That's 10 years into, you know, in process.

Yeah. And plus we work together, so.

Oh, and you work together too, so I work with my wife as well, so that's. Yeah, go ahead.

No, it's just that we, we really like each other and we, we've known each other since high school. Our parents, we grew up in the same town, just different high schools, but we have all the same friends from childhood. Our parents went on a trip to Israel when we were in seniors in high school, I think it was. They didn't know each other and we really didn't know each other and our parents became best friends. And all of a sudden I was going out to dinner with my parents and Jenny and her parents would be there for accidental bump ins and they tried setting us up for years and neither one of us listened. When we finally came clean to them about 12 years ago, they were like, finally we're family.

Wow, that's so cool. Yeah, that just feels, that almost feels like it's, you know, it's daytime, it's. Or whatever. Like a rom com type.

Yeah, yeah.

Scenario.

It's. We, we actually, we actually enjoy each other's company and so.

So resiliency there has to do with, with likability, with compatibility. Give me.

Yeah.

Do you want to get the essence of what your take is on that?

Yeah, yeah. And we're different in a lot of ways and we counter, counterbalance each other, you know, which I think makes for a good relationship. She. What? She's good. She's good at certain things and I'm good at certain things and we go to each other for the things that we're not good at. For example, I have a little dyslexia and I'm not a good writer, so I will not Send an important email out without her proofreading it. It just won't happen. And I'm the more salesperson. And when it comes time for, you know, the business side of the business, like that, selling and. And knowing the technical side of the business, that's my area. But she takes care of the. The business side, invoicing the billing and the math of the business. She's the brains behind that part of the operation. And we run our house together. 50%. You know, we share the responsibilities of being married and taking care of the house and the family.

Yeah. And I might botch the quote, but somebody once said, and my wife Brandy and I, we used to deliver, do relationship workshops and things like that, which we love to do. We've done them all over the world, actually, but it just haven't done it in a bunch of years. The. There's so much nuance to it, and obviously, everything is different based on the part the parties. Right. So it's not like this one rule or one set of things for everybody. But. But I heard somebody say something around that you're. Whatever your 50% is, it's. You're doing 100% of your 50%. So it's. You're putting 100% effort into the piece that you're. That you're responsible for, for. And in the best relationships, it seems to me that people complement each other. As you just said, like, we're all. We all have weaknesses. We have strengths, weaknesses. There are things we like to do, things we hate to do. You know, it's nice, it's convenient when something that you really don't want to do and don't. Aren't great at doing somebody else actually wants to do and is great at doing it. That doesn't always align, you know, so perfectly across. Across the board. But it's. It's remarkable how often that actually is the case.

Yeah. And, you know, I. I would. I traveled like four or five days a week for 20 years, and it was my wife Jenny's who convinced me that, you know, she said, you, our businesses as you're. You make more as an entrepreneur than you make as a camera operator than Howie Zales makes as a camera operator.

Yeah.

And we sat down and she was like, look, you know, the two columns. I'm like, she said, you're working too hard as a camera operator to make this amount of money versus what the businesses make. So that's when I said, okay, I need to stop right away.

Yeah, that's, you know, what you just said. I think a lot of people potentially might be having a moment, you know, pausing right now to think in terms of how they. How they're operating their lives, because it's so interesting that, that we could be doing something and just not seeing it. It's like kind of like the, you know, the goldfish that's in the bowl, you know, in the world. It doesn't know. Right. It's swimming.

Yeah.

So it's. It's wonderful. How did she. But how long ago is that, that she pointed that out to you?

About five. Five years. Six years ago.

Yeah.

Wow. And I was always tired. In order to stay home the longest I take. I'd leave on a 6am flight and then travel home, taking a 6am flight home. But, you know, you're delirious when you do that. Working long days in between that. Yeah. So the business is worth making far more money, Far much more money than I was as a camera operator. I loved what I was doing. I was. But not at the expense of my health and being away and, you know, fitting everything in. In life.

Yeah, that's. That's a clear pivot right there. I did. I remember when I was commuting into Manhattan from where we were living at the time. We lived in New Jersey, in Freehold, New Jersey.

Okay. And that's a long drive.

And my wife. Oh, my God. I mean, it depends. It could be an hour and a half on a. On a good day, on a good commute, and three hours on a Friday afternoon. I mean, it was.

Right.

And that's, you know, both. Both ways. So when we decided to open an office, a satellite law office in. In the town that we were living in, in New Jersey, for me to just do Mondays and Fridays so that I could have these longer weekends with the family and stuff like that, that seemed to be revelatory at the time. And my wife was integral in. In that as well as many, you know, many other common sense decisions that I was incapable of. Of. Of coming to, you know, just for being. Being in it. You know, we're often just so in it. And that's why, you know, vacation time is important to take time to.

Absolutely.

Time to meditate. I. I hadn't been a meditator until just recently, which is remarkable. In fact, I gave a TED Talk some years ago where I kind of declare that I'm really a crappy meditator only because I. I really didn't try very hard and didn't. Didn't stick to it long enough to actually explore whether There was something in that.

Right.

For me. But I think, you know, for people that might be at an inflection point right now, maybe add a pivot point. Yeah, please, you know, take, take the old pivot book off the shelf. It'll help. I, you know, it's helped me in the, in, oddly enough, which I won't get into now. But meditation is another one of those things where, or any stillness practice where you could just get quiet, whether it's even just walking in the woods or, you know, surfing for me now where we live, or, you know, walking out on, you know, in the rain or going out to look at the stars at night. I mean, just quiet time and meditation in particular for me now, really important to be able to come to some of those, you know, sort of obvious, they're obvious in hindsight. Right, right. That the change was a good one or it was needed. But in the moment, people are just, I mean it, deathly afraid. I don't know how to say it. It was a lifeguard at Jones Beach. I don't know if you, you knew that from my, Yeah, I worked at Feel Ford Jones beach, so that really busy beach because all the buses went there. It's where the boardwalk is and all that kind of stuff, you know, and, and it was like people in the water when they realize they're over their head even for a second because the tide has pulled them out.

Right.

You know, like a rip current, they might be in a little mild sock or what, you know, but as soon as they realize they can't stand and that they're going away from the shore, it's literally panic that you see.

Panic, I'm sure.

Yeah. It's like you see it, so, and change is very much like that. You know, the idea, oh my God, I'm so far into my career, you know, I've been 20 years as a camera operator. How on earth will I give this up or what will happen if I do? And you know, every, so to, you know, to be able to make those pivots really requires the clarity and sort of a stillness that gives you confidence.

It's.

Wouldn't you, would you agree with that?

Yeah, no doubt. I, I, and you know, to your point, I, I, I hired a business coach to help me develop systems and processes for the business. So I, so when I hired people to our core team, it wouldn't be a three months long training process. This is how we do things. This is how we do this, this is how we do that. So. And it really helped Me get myself organized on what I need to do on a daily basis instead of becoming so reactionary, try to be more prepared. So for when, like when a fire develops, I have time to put it out.

Yes, exactly. More. More resiliency, right? Yeah, yeah, we prepare to be. And this is, this is maybe the last thing I'll say and we'll wrap things up, but, you know, we have to develop our resilience before. Before we need it. I think people don't get that. It's. It's a proactive system. You know, you got to be resilient when the, when the shit's hitting the fan. But. But the time to develop resilience is before the hits the fan. That's the time when you build it.

And to that point, we're going to hire someone for the HJZ Productions, our first business in the next week or so. So I can scale Viridity Entertainment and build it and make it more resilient because too much of my time was being taken away from it working in the other business. So it's just, you know, having, having that.

Any thoughts on the random, not so random question here, but any thoughts on the market, like where we are right now based on what you're hearing and seeing from your corporate clients?

Yeah, I think, I think things are in a good place. Court are people are willing to spend money and you know, it's, you know, we just had a phone call with our financial advisor and you know, things seem to be in a good place. Hopefully it continues. Continues on that path.

Good. It's always nice to hear that people are still spending. I mean, meaning that companies are still spending because when, when they're willing to invest, you know, that's a sign that, that things are better than they might even seem.

Right.

And I think it's always important for us to have that, you know, when they're. When there are a bit of green, you know, few green lights ahead develop, you know, helps us to understand that we also have to continue to invest. And, And I think businesses of all sides sizes need those signs in order to, you know. Oh yeah, because nobody's. Nobody big or small has a crystal ball. I mean, that's the fact. So.

Totally. Totally. And what helps, you know, our, our business requires a lot of equipment. So we're constantly investing and reinvesting in new and updated equipment to make sure that we can handle what our clients need. And you know, there's companies like ours across the country that are constantly doing that. And that's just one Little field.

Yeah, exactly, Howie. I've so enjoyed the conversation and, and to same here. You know, get together with a fellow New Yorker.

Absolutely.

New York anymore. My brother, my mother and brother still live there. Can't get. I won't ever get that out of my blood. And if. If somehow there was an exorcism or something possible to just like pull the New York Knick fan out of me, that would be okay.

Actually. They're having a good season.

Yeah, well, what I mean at this early December, but okay, that's spoken like a true New York Knick fan. You're right. They are having a good season so far. All right, brother, thank you so much for your time today. And I'll do a recap for folks they. They know to expect it. But look at the show notes. You can find out more about the work that. How he's doing and his companies and, and all that good stuff, as well as any of the references that were. Were, were spoken of today. And of course, if you, if you know somebody that's in. In a pivot or transition period, I'd say that's one of the through lines that came through today. Feel free. Please share this episode with a colleague, a friend, family member, somebody that might just benefit from a, you know, hearing some of these words. And you know, that's, that's always helpful to us as well. So we appreciate it. And again, Howie, thanks so much.

Thank you. My pleasure.

That conversation with Howie Zales was, was fun. I so enjoy that. I hope that you did as well. We covered some ground I wasn't anticipating how. He certainly has learned a lot in his business about resiliency and about pivoting and his life, in fact, I think has been one series of pivots after another. I know that only too well since that's been the case for me and maybe that's been the case for you. I think we all are serial pivoters at a certain point in time. Not all of us have made that many career pivots, although more and more that I hear that is. Is more more the norm, I'd say, than it is the exception these days. Certainly when I was growing up, people's tended. Tended to stay at their jobs for 20 and 30 years and that just, you know, at the same job and in the same industry and that kind of thing. And that has become less and less prevalent. We have so many options available available to us and, and we truly can do just about anything that we. That we decide we're going to commit to Commit our time and our, our energy, our love and, and our resources to within reason. You know, I, I would love to be a professional basketball player, but that's not going to happen. It was never going to happen. So when it comes to my own professional pivots, they, they really are guided by where it is that I, I myself, where, where I can feel that, that I'm able to add the greatest value. I think that, you know, going back and speaking to my, my younger self, as it were, what I would say is, is just not so much follow your heart. I mean that, that's, that's good advice. I've given that advice. I, I would say follow the value, follow, look at where, where you can create the greatest value and follow the path forward or toward that, that place where you'd be optimizing value and adding, adding more and more value as your career goes on. And if you're at a place where you don't feel as though you are able to add more value and, and maybe you're not even fulfilled or satisfied by the value that you currently contributing in the arena that you're, you are, are presently engaged in, well then it's, there's no, there's no, there's no shame in that. There's no harm in that. But you have to take stock. You have to be aware, self aware enough to recognize that perhaps that's not a long term solution to what, what you want out of life, which I think we all want very much the same things. We want to feel fulfilled, we want to feel good about, about what we've done. We want to be rewarded and acknowledged and, and you know, that includes money, but it's not exclusively about money. And, and so I think these are, these are important questions. They were, were inspired by my conversation today with Howie Zales. I hope that the things that Howie shared and then our conversation in fact inspired you in some way. And if it did, that's fantastic. If there are others in your life that would be inspired in, in some way by this conversation, feel free to share this episode. That's always super helpful to us and we appreciate it again as, as we, we frequently ask for that and, and we appreciate your help in doing that. And if you love the episode, we'd love for you, whatever platform that you consume this media on, feel free to rate it, provide a, you know, five star rating if that makes sense to you, if that feels good, if that's in alignment and true, otherwise, whatever rating also makes sense that that's perfect because feedback is is very helpful to us and very much appreciated that you would take the time to provide any feedback, whether that's the, the, the best feedback or, or it's something less than that. So thank you again and I mean that sincerely from my heart. Also, we would love for you to take the moment if, if now is a good moment and you can go to rankmyresilience.com you can get your own resilience score in three minutes or less and find out just how resilient you are feeling in this moment, how resilient you are in fact in these four very important areas. Mental, emotional, physical and spiritual resiliency. And there are resources that are entirely complementary as a result of your taking the time to do that. So that is our, our offering and hopefully a place where we're adding value to many, many people all over the globe. We hear that pretty frequently. So we have some reason to believe that, that people are benefiting greatly from this conversation and from their taking stock in, in how resilient they are and where it is that they can improve that resiliency for their personal happiness, for their productivity professionally and in other areas of their lives and, and simply in just being, being at their best. So again, thank you so much for being a part of our community. We so appreciate you and thank you for tuning into today's episode.

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