Resilience in Volatile Industries with Actor, Reed Diamond

Life happens, and not always the way we expect it to. Every single day, we face change, stress, and uncertainty. What if you could learn to thrive no matter what life throws your way? Resilience expert Adam Barkel and his inspiring guest explore breakthrough strategies to fully embrace change and build the resilience required to become change.

Proof. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the podcast. I'm your host, Adam Markell, and I'm sitting here right now literally rubbing my hands together because I know that this morning I'm just going to have such a cool conversation with somebody that was just introduced to me. We have a mutual friend, somebody that I think we both deeply respect. Just really love this guy, and it's so cool. I think more than anything else, to be. To be able to still be able to meet and connect at a deep, deep level with people is important. I mean, I've, you know, like a lot of people, I think in the COVID time that we're living in, we've been in isolation in so many ways. And I think we forget, especially when a lot of our connection is just through social media or just through sort of means that different exist. 15, 20, 30 years ago, you actually had to meet people, had to speak to them. I had to connect with them. They could tell from the tone of your voice and from so many other things, you know, just a lot about you and what was important. And just all of that, I think, has just become something that is a little bit lost in the shuffle. So to be introduced to somebody through someone else that I have only been recently introduced to is just reminding me how important the connections are and to not take it for granted that we have this opportunity each and every day to still get deeply connected to people that we haven't yet met. I mean, we're living in divisive time, so maybe there's some wind in our face when it comes to that concept, but I truly believe that that's the most important thing we can do as human beings, is to connect and be able to see the presence, see what's really true in the eyes of another human being. And you can't do that through your device, I don't think. Well, that's controversial, but that's my. I'm sticking to it. So I feel great having this guest with me today. His name is Reed Diamond. I'm going to read a little bit about his bio, a little about. A little bit about his history, and then we can just dig right in, as always. So Reed diamond has been working as an actor he's been a working actor. I don't know. Is that a contradiction in terms?

Right.

We might get into that a little bit, but he's been a working actor for over 35 years in television films and on Broadway. Career highlights include Homicide, Life on the Street, Moneyball, Good Night, and good luck, 13 Reasons why, Designated Survivor, and many more. But for 30, 35 years, he's been a part of a constantly shifting business where rejection and the word no are par for the course. He's definitely been forced to reinvent himself to be resilient, and that's in part why we were introduced and why he is the perfect guest to be on the show this morning. Reid, good morning and welcome. Thanks for being here, Adam.

Oh, man, thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be here. And it's so funny listening to your introduction. And when Adam, our mutual friend, you know, wrote me an email saying, hey, I think you guys would really hit it, off I go resilience. This is all I've been thinking about. This is literally all I've been thinking about for the last three years. And I've been my own little guinea pig. I mean, and earnest. I mean, this has been just a concentrated period of time, but obviously throughout. But then something that also struck me, too. I mean, because I'm a fan of yours and I've been listening to the podcast, I'm thinking about gratitude and just the way you talked about meeting people and connecting to people. You know, it's. If you. There's a. There's something miraculous. You said, being present of. If you're just. If you're in that flow state and you're going through life, it's amazing who will come into your world. And, I mean, Adam, our mutual friend, just happened to be dining in the same restaurant, and then we hit it off, and now I've met you, and it's nothing I could have constructed or, you know, strategized to make happen. And then here we are having a conversation about something that I'm passionate about, and I think about every single day. So I'm so happy to be here. Thanks, Adam.

More and more, there's just no coincidence. I. You know, we could go into a lot of. A lot of theory on that.

Yeah, of course.

There's. I just. The more I live, the more. The more days I'm blessed to have on this planet, I. The more I am. I am affirmed in believing that there is no randomness to it. There's just. There just isn't. So, yeah, I Mean, not to get all. I mean, from New York. You're from New York, of course, you know, you're in Toronto now, but you've spent a lot of time in the West Coast. So it's. You know, I like to get really practical sometimes. And me, it's absolutely practical to think that things are on purpose. That's not like wishful thinking. Don't you agree?

Well, and I think it's even. It's. As you work on yourself and as you're going to attract different. Someone much smarter than me said, it's more like as you reform yourself, you cut a different path through the world, so different things will come at you, right? So if we're. If, you know, if you and I are working on. If we're working on being more present and more open, we're going to be attracting different people. We're going to. I always think about it. You know, there's a John Lennon quote, right? Like, life is what happens while you're making other plans, right? And you really just want to get into life. And I always think about, you know, when you can't find your car keys and you get really focused and you're like, I got to find these keys. And you're looking around and your brain just starts getting. It starts constricting into just like a clenched fist. And the second you stop looking, you know where it is, or it's like, you know, remembering someone's name. And I think, you know, I mean, we're just jumping in. But, I mean, there's something about that as going through life. Like, if you've got a plan, if you've got a strategy. I mean, certainly in my business, I've encountered so many people who. I mean, you said it so perfectly. I remember in the 90s, there was a big thing like, you need to network. You need to network. You need to, like, get your network going. And you got to. And you could feel your people were hustling you.

And it didn't.

It wasn't organic, but. But you do need a network of people. But the only way you're going to have real relationships is if they happen organically. And if you have. Instead of. What can you do for me, Adam? It's like, what can I do for you? You know, we're. We're in this together. It's a mutually beneficial relationship. And we find some point of contact and we find some point where we're on the same wavelength. And so, you know, those things are true. You do need a group of people in A network and it enhan life. But you can't do it. I mean, you can, I guess, but you can't really successfully and with longevity, do it out of some sort of stratagem.

Yeah, well, listen, to be in the industry that you're in for as long as you have been and to be working consistently, you might think that, you know, I think a lot of people would say, well, he's had a great. He's had a great plan for himself, for his career. He's had a great strategy. He's been a great, you know, executing it. I'd love to get a sense of, you know, how you define that resilience. But before we get there, I just want to kind of track to that thing that you said about, you know, kind of restricting, because I want to. I want to follow this little thread here because there's a part of us, I think, that says. And that we've been taught, you know, it's like the need to. The need to. You need to be a great. You need to have a great plan. You need to be, you know, planned for things. You know, George Harrison, you see, you brought up John Lennon, which. I absolutely love that wonderful line in this song. And I think it was George that said something like, you know, if you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there. So there's this. This.

Oh, yeah.

Feels like there's tension for me between sort of having the plan and being really, really sort of rigid almost in the sticking to the plan piece and the fact that in the. In the creative arts, like, I do a bit of writing and I speak and I wish, you know, and acting is such an art form, you know, play a little guitar and things like that. And in guitar in particular, like, for me, if I think too hard, if I just. If I'm. If I'm kind of trying to force it, I can't. I can't play. I can see my playing becomes really, really kind of just awful. Right. You know, and I would think in acting, it's. Is it similar to that? Is it similar.

You know, it's amazing that you brought that up because that's. That's literally what I've been focusing on and talking about as far as art and craft recently with acting, because for a long time there was always been this debate, is acting a craft or is it an art? And I think you use the craft to get to the art. So this is just my personal philosophy of acting. But I think what I'm always looking for is to disengage thinking. You can't use the brain. So I need to create a situation. If I'm doing a scene, what I want to do is get to my instincts and get to whatever, because I know, okay, I can go home. A lot of actors can do this. I can go home at night and play, plan what I'm going to do the next day. When I get to this moment, I'm going to shout, I'm going to grab the glass on the table and you can plan it, and that's going to be fine. And some people are quite successful doing that. And it makes sense. But what I'm looking for is I go. If you and I come together and we're just feeding off of each other, one plus one equals a million. Because we're going to elicit out of the other actor something that we didn't plan. And that's. I'm always looking to create the mistake. I'm looking for things to go a little sideways. Because what you and I come up with together, not intellectually, not talking about it, but what you and I come up with by reacting off of each other, is so much more interesting than anything we could have planned. So that's art. You know, when you talk about writing, you know, there's that book, that great book, the War of Art, and where he talks about your whole job as a writer and, you know, I translate this to the actor is to. Is to invite the muse and get the muse to come out. And, you know, you could say muse. Some people say God, whatever you're saying. But I just think of it as the art. I know that you're gonna bring something out of me that I could never have planned. And it's much more interesting than anything I consciously created. And so the craft is creating a situation where that can come out, which can be challenging because you know what I always say different? I think so many people are great actors. A lot of people can act, or musicians, same thing. I also play.

A lot of people can read a line. A lot of people could memorize script.

Right.

But I don't think a lot of people can act really well. And. And I guess that's. That's what we're kind of talking about is. Yeah. You know, is it planned improvisation or is it improvised planning?

Well, that's exactly because. Because. And that's because the thing that makes us professional from an amateur is that you have to do it under the most difficult. You have to do it under horrible circumstances.

And you have lights 50 people watching you, seeing you make your mistakes.

I mean, you have to be. You have to be private in public. You also. There's so many things going against you.

Right.

If I could teach. You know, I'm really. I really want to start teaching acting for working actors and just offer one of the benefits of what I've learned over the years. But the one thing I've always. I know, and this is my credo, is whatever you think it's going to be like on the day, it's not. They're going to be like, hey, we only got. We got five minutes to get this scene before the sun goes down. And you have to create. You have to find some sort of space where you can let that improvisation come out. And this is my personal philosophy. And that's, you know, that's where I know that my talent. And it's funny because, I mean, we'll talk about this because I had sort of a renaissance in my work and the way I was approaching it, because I think at a certain point I'd gotten to some sort of plateau and I was doing a lot of stuff that I wasn't. It was lucrative, but not necessarily creative fulfilling. But in the last few years, it's been getting back to that initial passion that made me want to be an actor when I was a teenager or even younger. So. And that all comes from, like, I just want to play, you know, someone much smarter than. I said that acting is a child's game played at a professional level. That's all.

Did you go to school, by the way?

I did. I did. I mean, I did. I went to Juilliard in New York. Yeah, I mean, I. But I'd started younger because I was fortunate. You know, as we talked about growing up in New York City, my plays. The best. The best theater I've ever done in my entire life were the plays that I did at my high school. I had the most amazing teacher, the greatest teacher I'd ever had, and we were doing stuff well beyond our years.

What's his name? You cool to say his name?

Oh, yeah. Michael Gilbert. He was my.

Is he still alive?

Oh, he is. And I love that. I mean, I literally, I still. When I get into a hole, often, I'll think about little things that he taught me in 10th grade or 11th grade. And. But those. You know, it's funny, you know, it's like that, you know, you're always trying to chase, like, you know, if you're a heroin addict, you're trying to chase that first high, like Those. Those musicals and those plays, like that feeling. But. But the benefit of it was because we were in New York City and I was doing plays there, the actual representatives would come see you. So I got my first manager when I was doing Diary of Anne Frank in my senior year in high school. So I was. So I started working right away. I started doing commercials, but I. And to pay. And then I ended up paying for Juilliard with. With a commercial, you know, because back then they used to make a lot of money and they'd run for years. So my first two years were paid from one Subaru commercial. But, yeah, so I studied. And then of course, over the years, so I went to Juilliard for four years and left for a little bit to work, and they let me come back. And. And then I've studied with some great teachers and some horrible teachers in Los Angeles. When I. Because I left right after I graduated Juilliard, I did my first play on Broadway and then I went to la because I'd never been there. Just been New York my whole life. And I got off the plane and was all warm and I could smell jasmine blooming me. I thought, oh, stay here. It's pretty nice.

No kidding.

Exactly, right?

I mean, first time you smell jasmine on the west coast, if you're an east coast person, you literally. It's like you're hooked. And I don't know, something about the size of your nose. I got a pretty good beak in there. And then you're, You're. You never. You're never happy till at some point you go, we're moving there. I'm going to smell that every minute of my life from here.

I'm so glad you had that same reaction, because I remember I got off the plane, it was January. I remember it was January 16, 1992. And I'm walking in the neighborhood, it's dark, and the blooming night jasmine. I smell like, what is this wonderful smell?

It's out of control.

Yeah, but. Yeah, so I did study, but, yeah, but I really feel as far as, like the craft part or the acting part, you know, because I feel my job as an actor, I have. I have two lanes that I have to do this work in. I have to be resilient and really think about how I'm being to do my work. And then I also have to. Maybe even more difficult how I'm going to be about my career and my life and how I am at home.

So the lessons that you were learning back then from this mentor that you had yeah. Are those the lessons that you've been applying throughout that. Your career? And in particular, even in the last couple of months when, I mean, when Covid hit, anybody who's sort of in the performing arts at all was shut down completely. I mean, people who perform in plays, the people that support those plays, public speaking, all of our gigs stopped for a period of time. You know, movie, movie shooting, television shooting, all that stuff just came to a screeching halt. Right. So, yeah, you've had to be. You've had to really practice the resilience.

Well, you know, it's like I feel. I remember when the financial crisis hit, and I. Now, obviously, with this one, you know, I spend a lot of my life unemployed and trying to get the next job. You know, I have that muscle. So I'm used to. I have a very. I've had to develop a very deep relationship with uncertainty. And that's, you know, a coach that I worked with for years, he said, you know, the patron myth of actors is Sisyphus. And, you know, the story of Sisyphus is Sisyphus was cursed or fated to have to push the rock up to the top of the hill. Every day and every night it would roll back down. And it's so true. And so even, you know, I've been stars of TV shows. I've gotten the rock up to the top of the mountain, and it may not always slide all the way back down, but it slides down. And he used to always say to me, the quicker you can get back on board with pushing that rock up the hill, you know, then you'll get your head out of your ass, because what would happen is it's such a. You know, this is a very vulnerable. It's emotional. Yeah, it's a vulnerable job because you tend. And I counsel, you know, you tend to take things personally, especially when you're younger. And maybe some people always take it personally in my line of work. And you have to remember it's not personal. And, you know, I. Because. But you feel it's personal because your instrument or what you're offering is yourself. So you're going, well, they're rejecting me, or maybe no one wants me or I'll never work again.

Irony in that. Right. Because you've got to access your emotions. That emotional range is so important.

Yes.

And yet you. You have to also take the emotion out of it on some level when you are making meaning, when you're creating meaning for the rejection or for the, you know, the rock going down to the bottom of the hill and having to push it up the top. There's so many ways that you can. You can give that meaning.

And that's. And you said, Stella Adler, famous acting teacher guru, said, you need to have the heart of a rose and the hide of a rhinoceros. And, And. But that's a delicate. That's a difficult balance, right? Because sometimes the hide gets too strong or sometimes there's too much heart.

Right.

And you have to. But it's funny because if we talk about conscious pivots, you know, in the last three years, like three years ago, you know, we were talking before we went on about, you know, midlife crisis and like, three years ago, really pretty much exactly to this date, everything fell apart. Like, I just. There was a massive breakdown all over. Now, breakdowns are fantastic because that's when you get into the meat and it gets all sticky and you got to figure out who you are. But it was maybe the scariest one of them all because I just. I turned 50. I had had. The business had really changed in the last few years, which we can talk about another point, but. And I just come off a show. We were living our nut was too high. And I really got to this point where I go. And I was breaking up with my representative, and I just. I'd had a period of doing, you know, five, six, seven years of doing work that I wasn't. I was paying the bills, but it wasn't satisfying as an actor because I say there's two typ of jobs that I do. There's the ones where, like, I hope I'm good enough, and then there's the ones where I hope I can make this good, but I love that.

Will you repeat that?

Yeah. So there's where you go, I hope I'm good enough, which is the job you want to do, or I hope I can make this good. Or as Tyne Daly said to me once, she goes, we're in the business of polishing turds. And that's the ones where you hope you can make it good enough, but it's not satisfying. And that's not why I got into this. And I remember it's not. It's not really my personality, but I went to a very. It was bleak. And I really. I went to. I got to that point where I go, I think I'm worth more to my family dead than alive. I was like, you know, maybe they can. So maybe something will happen. They can have the life insurance policy.

It's a wonderful life moment.

Exactly. That's exactly It. And then you realize, okay, that's not true. It's not true. And I go, I knew. And this is what goes back to the beginning. I started from nothing. I built this career. I've always had a strong work ethic. I was like, okay, you're 50, and this is what you do, and let me use your show. I had a conscious pivot, and I was like, you need to dig deep, and we got to figure this out. And it was twofold. So I found a new representative who I'd heard about, and we sat down, and she laid it out. She's like, you've been doing all this stuff that you don't want anyone to see. I don't think you should be doing this. This is what we should be doing. So we were on the career side. We were able to turn that around. But what was more important, and I think for this show, is I was like, I had to change my attitude. The way I looked at what I'm excited to push up the rock because I think where I'd gotten to, I'd gotten to a place of where I was searching for rest, and I was searching for, like. So when I. When I get a job, I would think about what that would provide for me and all what dinners I could have, what I could do for my family. And I was looking. Somehow, at a certain point, I started to look for rest, and I was like, that's not who you are. That's not what you're all about. That's not what the world's about. And then. So I go, no, no, no. I want rigor. I want. I want. I want to embrace the struggle. I want to embrace pushing the rock up the hill. And so I started to seek out. I mean, I certainly. I'd done a lot of good coaching. I had an amazing coach for years. So all of that stuff was cellular. It was in my bone. So I knew how to access that. And then just things started coming in. I go, you know, and I heard you talk about on one of those podcasts where it was just you talking and you talked about that. Of course we can create new neural pathways and new ways of thinking about stuff, just because you can teach an old dog new tricks. And I go, and there were a couple of things that I really wanted to fortify. I go, I need my. I want my concentration to be better. So, you know, I would actively work on how can I really expand my level of concentration. How can I also, you know, I was always a healthy guy, but I go, you Know, like, let's take it up to the next level. Let's see, you know, how much more energy you can get out of life. And then also that. Then also the attitude thing, you know, because I tended to spend a lot of time pre worrying. Worrying well before there was time to worry. Because as we were talking about, you know, how an actor is set up.

First, I just want. I just want to pause for a second. Sorry. People are either chuckling right now, laughing, smiling.

What's that?

Did he just say pre worrying? To put words to that concept that so many of us do, that we spend time in the worry before the worry. The worrying about the worrying, the fear about the fear, the anxiety about the anxiety. Thank you for just articulating that, brother. Appreciate it.

In fact, you know what I started to do when I was coming out of. Because I really. I had hit the bottom. I was in the trough, and I knew I was gonna have to go up the hill, But I would do, because I would pre worry. Because as an actor, as an unemployed actor, you go, okay, here's how much money I have. Here's how long I can go. Here's how long my family can eat before I work again.

And I would start Runway, like, in.

Startup, and I would pre worry. And I go, no, no, burn rate. Yeah, totally, Right? So what I would do is I would literally get a calendar out, and I would figure out. I go, here's when you're allowed to worry about this. I would put it in the calendar. You've got, like, two months from now, you. This is a problem. It's not a problem right now. And that was the other thing too, because that was a big adjustment of. There was some sort of catastrophizing that I was doing, which was just a habit, and it wasn't true. I go. And that's. And this speaks to resilience. I go, you've got this in you.

You get it.

You may have to dig a little deeper and work. It may be ugly for a little while, but, like, you've got this muscle. We just need to make it stronger. And so I really focused on making that muscle stronger and being disciplined about not catastrophizing, certainly in front of my family, because it doesn't make your relationships better. And I would never do it in front of my child. But, you know, with my wife, I go, I know it's unattractive. It's not true. And also, okay, things change, right? The world changes. And, you know, I'm not the type of person who's gonna give up. So I really just need to build these muscles back up. And it's interesting, you know, I was living in the country and I've been living in the country for years. And you look at the animal kingdom, you look at nature, it's like no one's resting. No one has time to rest. Like every day, it's like. And then. And once I sort of made that internal shift, that conscious pivot, once I made that shift, I was like, again, it got exciting. Now the challenges which we can talk about are daily because I think what the myth of Sisyphus actually teaches you and which was an important lesson for me to learn. And I talked to some successful business people I knew here who said the same thing. You got to create it every day. Yes, every day. You have to recreate it. Because what happens is because I think there's so much uncertainty in my business. What I end and what you end up wanting to do is your, your thought is that you're going to get to some place where there's no more struggle and you can just, you can glide, you can coast, and that's death. And I got in there creatively and I'd gotten there career wise. And now in the last three years, and the fruits have been born over the last couple of years, it's like I've shifted that. And so I'm only. I've now gone from doing shows that I'm not embarrassed of. But I'm never going to say, hey, Adam, check me out on this show now I'm doing, I'm working great shows on Netflix and Amazon and. Sorry, go ahead.

No, the irony, I mean, of it is on some level that we resist uncertainty. We see uncertainty as a threatening thing because that's kind of how we've been wired for, I suppose. And. And yet the only certainty is that everything is uncertain. I mean, there's a sense of that being absolutely true. So how do you leverage uncertainty? How do you embrace uncertainty? And before you answer that question, I just wanted to bring it up because I was looking for the title to this book that this. When you mentioned catastrophizing, I grew up hearing about that word was. My dad studied. He, he was, is a writer. He's to this day writes a lot of fiction and he's writing screenplays and plays and things like that. And at a certain point he was studying with Lee Strasberg and, you know, there were some people which was. Yeah, really, you know, actor, studio, stuff like that. It was pretty cool. But there was another dude that he. That he encountered while he was going through his anxious times early in life. And the guy's name is Albert Ellis. So I want to just put a shout out to people out there who've never heard of Albert Ellis. But this guy is sort of the father of something called rational emotive therapy, which then later on, I'm not sure how it morphed into cognitive behavioral therapy, but that's something a lot of people have heard of. And there's a book that I read over the summer when we were spending some time up in Maine called stubbornly refuse to make yourself miserable. Like, just check out this title, right? Stubbornly refuse to make yourself miserable by Albert Ellis. So anybody that feels like they pre. Worry. So any of the stuff that Reid was just sharing with us, I think if you were just sort of yes ing to that, you know, going, yep, that's. That's me. I think this is a great book for you all because his whole thing was sort of setting up the ways in which we make ourselves miserable. And often it can just be seen in the language that we use when we examine our thoughts. It's one thing, but our thoughts are pretty. You know, it's like it's a lunatic asylum inside most people's heads. But what comes out of their mouth is a little bit, you know, less. Less insane, usually. But even those words are super telling. And so the words that. That sort of connote a, you know, something has to happen. It should. These are the shoulds. These are the musts. In fact, he coined this thing called musturbation, which probably Jeffrey is Jeffrey Toobin. Everybody's. Everybody using this poor guy's name right now. I guess I just did it too. But it's like, you know, it's masturbation. It's the idea constantly musting and shooting and creating these catastrophes out of things that just aren't. Especially in the greater context, that things are impermanent and against the greater backdrop, that not everything that we worry about or every instance where we're worrying about is even useful for anything. You know, that's why the pre worrying thing is such a gag, right? Because it's like, how could pre worrying be useful?

You know, it's right. And you know that it's. You know, if you really.

Does that help you be a better actor? Because. No. Are you sure about that?

Exactly. No, of course. Pre worrying. No. Because it's not. It's. It's an addiction. It's just a familiar emotional. Because it's not emotional. It's a familiar psychological state that you put yourself into. And it's a habit. And it's a habit that has to be broken, you know, because as I was, I remember like, as I was another great friend who's like an older brother to me. And he's, of course, things come in as we talk about, you know, he handed me a bunch of stoic philosophy right as all this was going on. And the thing you take away from that is, you know, all I have control over is what I do, my actions and my thoughts. Right. And, and that's a mental discipline, you know, so obviously you. This thing, this brain, and isn't that.

The, the rock at the bottom of the hill every day? Yeah, you're talking about, of course.

But if you, you know, and you, I mean, you know, you're obviously, you're so advanced at this, but it's like what you, you have to retrain yourself. You have to build new muscle. Like, you know, if you want to, you know, if you want to race in the, you know, in the Tour de France, you're gonna have to get different muscles going. So if you want to be, you know, mentally strong, you're gonna have to, you know, obviously went back to meditating religiously, exercising much, much more and not indulging the BS because it's not helpful. Not bringing anything that's not helpful and trying to stay as present and not catastrophizing or pre worrying and being able to dig deeper, you know. And then people I'm staying with here, my friend Kate Warren, she's a big time corporate coach and we became friends because we'd be together at little dinners here and I'd be talking about stuff that I'm struggling with or bad days I had had on set and what I learned about it. And she really introduced me to Tim Galway and inner game of tennis.

Oh, man, are you kidding?

And that has changed. It's changed my creative life. It's changed my on set life. Because, you know, his simple formula is performance is potential minus interference. And that interference thing is key because most there's external interference. But I find certainly with someone like myself that there's so much personal interference where I'm getting in my own way. And it's been such a powerful tool to be aware of that, to know that my performance is any, is my potential, but any interference is going to subtract from that. And it's been, it's very interesting because now when I go to work, I've had a couple Of I'll give you a specific instance. So I was shooting 13 Reasons why last year, and it was like my first day on set. And we did. It was just a little scene. And I did the first take and I thought, this is great. I did. This was. This is going well. I feel like this is the right guy. But the director comes over and gives me a note. I'm like, okay. And then I do it again. I'm like, the same sort of note. And I'm going. I think I'm doing. This is going really well. I don't. The hell's going on. And by the third take, when he gives me this note that I don't completely understand, I feel like, a little.

Sticky when you say a note.

Well, no, he. I'm sorry. A director gives you a note. He goes, hey, you know, be more happy. Be faster.

Oh, this is fever.

It's a director's.

Yeah.

His feedback. So between each take.

Sometimes it's not a physical note. It's like a whisper in your ear. Say it out loud.

Sorry. That's. It means be too inside baseball. That's in my business. When a director has a direction, it's called a note.

Called a note.

A note. Sorry.

Okay, so it's a love note.

It can be. That's my favorite kind. As Hugh Grant said, what does he look for in a director? And he said, sycophancy. But so I started. I could feel. Because now the other thing, you know, you need to be aware of your system and how it reacts. And I could feel myself when I'm feeling effed up, I start to. I implode. I start to go inside and I say. And I could feel myself starting to shut down a little bit. And I go, okay, all right. So something's going on over where the director and the writers are that you. You need, because, you know, you're doing well, but someone's not communicating something. So instead of imploding, why don't we just go clear this up? So I just walked right over and I said, hey, I'm confused because I feel like this is going really well. But. And I can tell by the way he' giving these. Reluctantly giving me these notes. Something else that you're looking for. And then the writers, because we open up the communication. Like, oh, yeah, we. You know, the head writer who's not there, he kind of wants something like that. And I go, well, it would have been nice to tell me, but thank you for telling me now. Now I completely understand. And we. Now we can get there together. And so by opening up that communication for years, I would have been too. I just would have been thinking about, okay, I can't wait to have a drink when this is done, you know, the end of the day. But now I'm going, no, no, no. I'm really here to like to get to the bottom of it. And I'm not gonna. Even if, Even if I'm. If the interference is just in my head, I want to clear it up so we know we're on the same page. And that's been really a really powerful tool at work. I mean, I had it the other day, I was just shooting on Bosch, and I had an idea. About what? The scene? Not an idea. We were playing it a certain way. And then I kept getting a note that just didn't make sense. And I could feel it. I could feel. Because you need to know your tells. You need to know when you're hooked up, when your head's up your butt. You need to know what's doing that. And for me, you can make a little list of it. I know what mine are. I'll either start getting a little. I'll get a little rebellious, or I'll start thinking about leaving, going home. I'll think about just little things, or I can feel like a little tightness in my chest. You know, whatever it is, you know, everyone's. At a certain point, if you're studying yourself, you know your tells. And I go, well, this isn't going to make for a good scene. This isn't going to make me a good scene partner. This isn't going to elevate whatever we're trying to do.

You have that level of self awareness as you're under the lights, in the pressure, meaning in the pressure cooker. Like film is. Film is rolling. I don't know film rolls anymore, but people are being paid to listen. You do your thing. And in the midst of that high pressure, like you're, you know, it's like you're got the ball on the field and the cameras are on. And in that moment, you're aware. You're present enough to be aware. Hey, you know, I got a little tightness in my chest.

But that's the challenge. That's literally my job is to do that. And I don't always do it. You know, I've started taking. I took this from David Goggins book I do often days at the end of work, I'll do a debrief. I'll write an after action report about what I thought Went well. And what I thought didn't go well because. Cut to last week. I was doing another scene where I did implode, and I didn't implode, but I shut down a little bit. So every day is pushing the rock up the hill, and I go, okay, here's the things that you could have been paying more attention to, and here's maybe how you could have resolved that issue or opened up the conversation a little bit more. So, you know what? We talked about creating it every day. That's the excitement, and that's the challenge. Right. And that's. That's been the most important.

That's the discipline.

That's the discipline.

This is the vigilance that we're talking about.

It's the.

Doesn't make life, you know, the. It doesn't make things easy. It makes things meaningful.

Right.

It's that old song, right? No one promised you a rose garden or whatever. It's like. Right. You know, like, it's not been promised. Nobody's been promised an easy life. Right. But the opportunity for a meaningful life or a life where. Where you're. Yeah, a life of growth. I mean, isn't that one of the things that comes out of dealing with uncertainty? I mean, like, dealing with our BS is in many ways dealing with the way we. We create meaning out of the world around us, and we can see it as anything we want to see it. So how do you deal with uncertainty? I want to just come back and touch that, because you mentioned it earlier, and this just fascinating to me, this concept that we're all in even more uncertain times right now, and I think it's hurting. It's painful for a lot of it is.

No, I know. And I feel. Yeah. I mean, because uncertainty is my bread and butter. You know, it's a state that I have had to live in off and on for 35 years. And those moments of certainty are great, but you also know that they are fleeting and they will end. You know, all shows end. I mean, I think. You need to have. Okay, so you know the story of Pandora's box?

I do.

And so the story of Pandora's box, I guess, apparently was a jar because they didn't have boxes. But the whole idea was that it was open and all of the emotions and all the things released into the world and the only thing that remained in the box was hope. And people often interpret that as, oh, that's great, at least we have hope. But then the other contrary interpretation is like, no, hope is the most dangerous psychology or emotion in the world. And I'll tell you so there's a fine line. There's a difference between hope and faith. And one, faith, faith without action is no faith at all. But faith is important. Hope is like, I hope something's going to happen. There's a passivity to it. Like something's going to be done for me. Someone's going to take care of you. You need to have faith. And I think faith is built out of your track record, out of what you know, you can look back. I mean, certainly with uncertainty, I go, you've gotten through this before.

Yeah.

And then now the goalposts move and the game changes. You know, certainly when I really hit bottom at, at 50, I'm a 50 year old actor as opposed to a 20 year old actor. There are different parameters in this game. But still that faith of going, okay, I know I've got this in me, I may have to dig a little deeper, but I can get through this. And also, what is this time telling me? Because I've never learned anything from a success in my entire life. I've never had a lesson that I could apply or some sort of, of great change I could execute. I've only learned from, you know, from a breakdown. And Kate, who I'm staying with here, she has this great thing she talks about, fail quickly and learn and keep failing quickly. You know, and, you know, and the quicker you fail and the quicker you sort of learn the lesson, you know, someone even smarter than I would talk about, like it's all about the ship is falling to the side, but if you do it fast enough, if you right yourself fast enough, it looks like the ship is standing up straight. And so, yeah, invite failing quickly and trying to learn the lessons. I mean, I think the most important thing that I learned in this sort of last breakdown was there were a couple of lessons I didn't want to have to keep relearning because I think, you know, sometimes you keep making the same mistakes and I don't want to keep, you know, that I was like, okay, you've gotten a certain age where you're going to have to let that go. You know, we need to really get to the, just the kernel, to the core of what's going on with this. Why do you keep making this same, you know, certainly obviously we're predisposed in our personalities to repeat certain things, but there were a couple of things I wanted to check off the list, but uncertainty. Yeah, I think you need faith and I think you need to work. But Also, I think you need to open up to what there are other things. So if we get myopic, we're just going back to looking for the keys or trying to find the word. If you go, fuck, I got to get a job and this is the only time. And you're going to tighten up.

Exactly.

And you have to loosen up. I mean, in a weird way, if I could have earned an income during quarantine, that was the only negative.

I loved it.

I loved it. It was great to be with my family, you know, it was great to have everyone in the same house. We really got down to what mattered. That's the other thing too. Like what's really important. And I actually, I loved. Was a wonderful time to be together and really stay connected. And I, you know, at a certain point you're gonna have to make a job, but also get a job. But I also realized, well, there's opportunity in this moment too. Like, obviously the paradigm has shifted.

Right.

There's going to be places, new places. I mean, what you're doing, I mean, the whole. Was so great right now. Which quarantine has really. And Covid has. This time has really illuminated. Is that there's a lot of middlemen you don't need. You can make your own product.

Right.

We don't need, you know, so every.

Everybody can be their own source of media. I mean, that's exactly what it is. Everybody can have a voice, everybody can have a creative to take a position and have impact in the world. I mean, that's. We teach. Part of what we love to do is we teach people how to, how to develop high impact talks, whether it's a TEDx talk or it's to get on stage and speak and deliver a keynote or right now, you know, virtual keynotes and workshops. This is something that's open to anybody.

Yeah.

Whereas it used to be. There was a different price of admission for sure, years ago and certainly pre Covid and even, you know, sort of years and years before that. And I think that that has been a game changer for sure. So just going back to your turning 50 and that sort of going from having a midlife crisis to having more of a midlife sort of reset.

Reset. Yeah.

My similar event happened before I was 50, but we'd like to refer to as the midlife calling. But your method, the method that you used, is that how you define resilience today? Is that what informs that definition of resilience for you? How it is that you handled that moment where, yeah. Your career had not ground to a halt, but it had stalled, it seems. And you were concerned about money and concerned about other things. Yeah. So just maybe give us a little the essence of how it is that you look at that today and whether in fact it does inform your. Your definition of resilience. And if it doesn't, how do you define resilience?

No, I think, I think it completely defines resilience. And that's what I had to really develop. And it was. And also understanding that I'm my own guinea pig. And so there's a lot of experimentation that I'm doing. So you're going to. I'm going to try. And also knowing that things won't what work today may not work tomorrow. So creating it every day, but definitely resilience. I had to build back up.

Right. Creating it every day.

Creating it every day.

Improvisation, which is improvisation. Everything. It's a part of it.

Yeah.

The art and even the.

I did a lot of comedy improv on stage for years and years and years. And I always. That was the greatest thing that after, after high school, that was the greatest thing that ever came to my career. Because what would end up happening on tv, oftentimes they'll call me the night before and they're like, be here tomorrow. And you don't have time to do a deep preparation. But I remembered from improv is I can create a whole show from one word suggestion that the audience gives. So staying improvisational, but also knowing what, you know, really knowing what your talent is and knowing what your strengths are. So for me, I need to be improvisational. It needs to feel like play for me. I need to be in a playful space. So I knew that I had to protect that, but also I just had to go. I had to build up a lot more muscles. You know, the Goggins book had this great example. He said most people go to 40% and then they just tap out because their brain is saying, you know what? You know, let's give an example of exercise. They go, you're going to hurt yourself. Stop. But if you push past 40%, you'll find you'll get an endorphin rush first of all. And then you're suddenly like, oh, I got 60% still in the tank that I hadn't even accessed. It's funny because I tried it one morning. I did like a very, like just a very linear experiment on that. I woke up one morning.

Morning.

I was like, I'm gonna try to do 100 push ups in my kitchen right before I do Anything. And like clockwork at, like, push up 40, I'm going, hey, no, you might hurt your shoulder. And I was like, no, you little. You know. You know, I can be a little punitive with myself. I would never talk to anyone the way I talk to myself, but I was like, no. And I pushed through. And then suddenly, after you push, the last 60 pushups were much easier than the first 40. And I was like, okay, this is important. You know, where you think your limit is. I think there's more.

And where you're feeling discomfort. So you people right now who are in tremendous discomfort.

Yes.

Pain, you know, living in that uncertainty or fear that's born out of that uncertainty, what you're saying, I think dealing. Dealing with yourself on that level of. Let's say, you know, I'm 100% able to deal with myself, or I'm only 40% able to deal with the pain that my mind is creating. Because there's very few situations where people are actually being forced to feel the way they feel. Right. I mean, it's a one true freedom is the feelings that we entertain, the thoughts that we create and entertain. That's really our only. Our only freedom when you think about it. Right.

That's exactly it. And discomfort, you know, somewhat there was a distinction between their suffering, which is use is like hope. It's not. It's not. It's passive, but there's discomfort. And a coach I worked with for years, he's like, when you're climbing Everest, you're uncomfortable. Right. You're not suffering, but you're uncomfortable. And having more hang time with that. So now, certainly my work ethic has expanded. But like I say, when we talked about. When I said, it's refining that passion that got me started. So I'm so excited about acting now. Like, I've found whole new depths of my love of my craft. But then also I have a lot more energy and confidence for the career part from the work that has to go into that. And that's been essential because I did. There were times where especially because my business has really changed because it's gotten a lot tighter for me. I mean, there's a lot less work for a white guy in his 50s. Right. Which as it should be. So now when I'm going in, when I'm competing, I'm competing with the best. I'm competing with everyone. You know, when I walk into a room when there used to be rooms, there won't be rooms anymore. But when I used to go to audition the last Two years. I know everyone in that room and you know everyone in that room.

Right.

So you're going, this is great. And so that excitement about bringing your A game, I've gotten that back. That fun, you know. And also knowing too within. And you're much. You'll be able to speak to this. But at least within acting, I feel my competition is just myself. I'm competing with me because, yes, I am literally competing against them, but really I'm either right or I'm not right. And it's about, can I get out of my own way to do my best work?

Yeah, this is about. To me, what you said earlier is so meaningful, that this is the difference between rigor and rest. That the mentality, that rigor is actually good for you. It's good for the soul. It's developing you. It's, it's, it's a. And I'm a big believer in the importance of rest when it comes to resilience. But I think way you were talking about rest, it was almost like resignation. It was almost a little bit like, like just as you say, coasting. I can't I just coast at this point? Can I make enough to just coast? I mean, I was watching an interview with Matthew McConaughey was on. He was actually on Bill Maher the other night, right? Yes. To have on. And he, you know, in the same profession as you, hit kind of a different kind of a wall. Like the guy was, you know, well sought after to be shirtless in a rom com, you know, and to decide whether that's ultimately, you know, his total legacy as an actor. And he says, no, you know, I don't want to do any more rom coms. I don't want to be that shirtless guy necessarily. Even though it was kind of funny, because he says, well, those rom coms paid for the. For the houses on the beach. That.

Right, exactly where he wears shirt.

Yeah, it's kind of both. Right. But at a certain point when he decided, you know, I don't want to do that anymore, but yet the industry made up its mind about who he is and what they expect from him. You know, the quote cast. Well, it was a good 20 months before he had a gig, you know, something he turned down.

Right.

And 20 months is, you know, at a certain point, your, your self confidence can atrophy. There's a lot of things can go. Go sideways, especially if you have time on your hands and money to boot. And he had to reinvent himself. And obviously you can see that he's been able to successfully do that. I think in part it's because it's something you said earlier, which is that you learn how to improvise as part of actors training, whether you're going to be doing comic work or not. Improvisation is such a big thing. And to me, when it comes to pivoting, when it comes to being resilient, and what I'm taking away from you is that improvisation is a key ingredient in it. Your ability to wake up every day. We'll talk about what that looks like, you know, when we're winding things down in just great. It's here. But to wake up every day and realize you have. You have the gift of this new day, what are you going to do with it? It's from the Bible. There's that story about the Jews wandering in the desert and. And, you know, led out of Egypt by Moses. And there's a point where it's told to them. I don't know whether, you know, whether it was Moses or it came some other way, but they're told, don't save. Don't save the manna, the stuff, the stuff that will sustain them. The food. Don't save it. Don't save it for tomorrow. Don't save it for tomorrow. You know, eat what you got today and more will be provided. So when you talked about faith earlier, that's what was going on for me is the faith that more will be provided, that we'll be able to wake up tomorrow if we're lucky enough to wake up tomorrow and have the faith, have the trust, the confidence in our. To be able to improvise in the moment and be all right. But so much of that pre worrying is worrying about. About whether there will be enough. Whether there will be, you know, enough to sustain me, et cetera, you know, And I think that constricts. That constricts everything. You can't. You can't improvise when you're. When you're all, you know, knotted up like that.

No.

And I think acting is such a great lens to see that through, because bad acting is really easy to spot. Sure, it really is. And authentic acting, acting that doesn't feel like. When you feel like the person you're seeing is actually the character they're portraying. There's something so glorious about that, and it really is. And it's so funny because as we started this episode, I said, I don't believe in accidents. I don't believe in randomness things. And I want to sort of, as we bring it in for landing here. I want to say what happened the other night so I realize you're on the schedule. I actually didn't realize you were on the schedule for today, because I don't look ahead that far. So, I mean, as much as possible. Whatever the message is coming through me as I try to live it. So I don't look to next week to see who's on the show and what's going on, because we have systems in place, and I know that, God willing and all that there will be a next week. There'll be a tomorrow. I'm going to. I'm counting on that.

Exactly.

It'll be tomorrow. Hopefully, I'll be there for it. So I didn't know you were on the show for today. And I'm lying on the couch, the fireplace is going. My wife is in her classic position, which is. She starts out right there next to me and is wide awake for us to watch something or whatever. And. And 10 seconds later, she is holding her feet, massaging, and she's.

Of course.

So I go, well, what am I going to watch now? And I'm flipping through, and I go to an old movie, dude, I go to a movie that I haven't seen in so many years. And, you know, sometimes I'm in the mood to watch something I've seen before and I love. You know, I could watch Life of PI again and again and again or back in the day, you know, like a Chariots of Fire or something, but. But I flip past and I go, all right, I got to watch this thing. And I turn on Moneyball, all right, literally Thursday night. So this is four or five days ago. I turn on Moneyball, and I watch Moneyball from start to finish. The next day, I'm on a zoom call with our mutual friend Adam, right? And I tell him I start riffing on what I got out of Moneyball like that.

Just.

You're not gonna believe it. I watched this last night, and I just love this. And he and I are both sports fans. We start going off on it, and he goes, we. Well, don't you know that Reed.

Reed Diamond.

Is it Mark Shapiro?

Is that Mark Shapiro? Yeah.

He goes, he's Mark Shapiro in that movie. I go, what? You? No way. And so. But then it gets even better, right? So he says to me, well, when's Reed going to be on the show? And I go, I. You know, I don't handle the scheduling of this stuff. I don't. I know. We. We connected, blah, blah, blah. So I asked When?

Yeah.

Hey, when's Reed gonna be on the show? You know, it's Monday. It's literally a couple of days later. And so people that. Well, I don't. Listen, there are no accidents. This was just truly trippy, man. Like. Yeah. And I don't know why I was. I was called to watch that movie, but I gotta say this, to just take it back to the point. Great. Your. Your portrayal of Mark Shapiro in that movie was brilliant. I mean, I. I loved it and I said that to him. So I was talking about it before he even told me that that was you, because I didn't know that was you. But that guy sitting behind the desk, you know, doing what he was doing and interacting with. What's our. What's our boy's name? Yeah, Billy Bean. I got. But the actor.

Yeah.

Right. So, you know, name escaped me, but small time actor. Right. I just thought, jeez Louise, that. That was just. It was just a great portrayal. And, yeah, I thought Brad Pitt, who I absolutely love. I love his. I love the roles that he takes.

He's amazing.

Yeah, this was a brilliant role. And you know what? Just for the sake of it, I'd love to get a sense what's it. What, you know, working with somebody like that, his craft and your craft, are they compatible? Because you guys on screen were dynamite together. Look like. I mean, just like two guys doing what you were doing. You know, there's no accidents.

It brings it back to the theme that you just talked about, improvisation. So on that scene, it was the first day of shooting the scene with Brad, and we'd had a rehearsal on the Friday before. And I remember there was a scene, it was written by Aaron Sorkin, and then Brad came in with his own rewrite of the scene. Now, Brad being Brad, because he's allowed to do that. No, but also because he's this ubermensch. He gave me much more to do in the scene that he rewrote. So he was very generous. And so we show up on the first day, but then what ended up happening, and we did actually shoot that one on film, is we improvised. So for the first half of the day, which is six hours, cameras pointed towards Brad and the director sitting beneath the camera. And the mags would last for, I don't know, 20 minutes or whatever like that. The mags what the film is. And we would just keep doing it until they ran out and they'd reload it. And I was given carte blanche, and he was amazing to work with. So we just improvised that Scene over and over again. We went crazy places. At one point, I was Captain Kirk in the chair, and he was amazing to work with. But then it was an interesting thing.

Because we get to lunch and all the Carlos scene. Right. This is the.

Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. And. And. And we get to lunch and some of the guys are standing behind him. They go, that was amazing. And I go, yeah. It hasn't happened yet, though, because I haven't been on camera. So we had to redo. You know, we have to do my side when we come back.

Right.

But it was. And then luckily we did it in about two hours, because I was like, I don't know if I can improvise for another six. But he was wonderful to work with, but that was. That was a perfect experience. So he's open, you know, and, you know, the number one, the main tenant of improv is. Yes. And have you heard that before?

I haven't.

So in a scene. So that is the main philosophy of never deny.

And.

Yes. And so if you say, like, oh, that's a lovely blue hat, you go, I go, yes. It was given to me by the King of France, you know, so I've agreed with you. It's agreement and then furthering. And it's a great philosophy for life because some of the best people in the world are improvisers because they know. They know that all boats rise together. And that's my philosophy of work and life. It's like, let's all get up there together. Not like, let me cut the legs out from you, but Brad Pitt, who. You know, it's funny, the two biggest movie stars I ever worked with, Clooney and Brad, they're the same guy. Like, they could not be more generous or more fun to work with. And so we had a. We had a blast. And we improvised that thing and we. Yes. Anded. And sometimes, you know, and we. Sometimes you go down a road that's. That's. It's not gonna make it in the movie, but it was fun and it brought stuff out. And so that was one of the most magical experiences where everything comes together, but also, you know, it's about who he's being. He. He's. He was the biggest. You know, he's incredibly gorgeous and the biggest star, but the nicest. Nicest guy never left set, just ate sandwiches with everybody else and hung out and. And was an amazing scene partner and made me, you know, because it made me feel completely invested in it. And so that was. It's. I love that you say, because it brings it back to your main theme of improv, because that's what that scene was and that's why that movie was so great, is because people stopped acting and they were really having real experiences. And eventually you'd get back to the script, you'd say the scripted lines. But that was a great, great. You know, I was a pinnacle.

And there you have it. It.

There you have it.

We're going to get back to scripted lines. People that are listening to this and wanting to go back to something that was more beforehand. And obviously there's been tremendous loss. And so I don't say this in any way, and I keep saying this because it bears repeating for me to just be on record for myself as saying I'm not looking past the suffering and genuine loss that exists. And that's, you know, I get emotional just thinking about that, for sure. And at the same time, utilizing what is. So in public speaking or in facilitation of trainings and things like that, we often talk about utilizing what is. And it's that improv that. That's the whole idea, is that this. There's always something there that we can make use of. Yeah. And that's what makes it worthwhile. That. That's why it's never a waste. So even the suffering, even the pain, these are things we will make use of, of as a. As a society, each of us individually, in our families. And. And that's really tough as we're grieving, legitimate grieving, to know that. That somehow or another this is. This. This too shall teach. This too shall be something that we ultimately get to use and create. Create alchemy out of, which is beautiful. So, man, I, you know, feel that we could talk for a really long time. This has been a blast. I know people are going to dig it a lot. I will ask you one final question, then. I'm going to think about my waking ritual. Is there something that you do on a ritual basis to help you, just to remind you of some of these really important things, or is there something you do ritualistically just to build your physical, your mental, emotional or spiritual resilience you'd like to share?

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, I. Obviously it's out there in the ether about, you know, you got to win the morning, win the day. Right. So I certainly have. I start the day discipline. And the first thing I do, get up and I make my bed. Right. Make my bed right away.

And.

And then I pour some coffee, and then I meditate and. And and get the day started right with my. Make sure I exercise every day. But I also. So I try to make it happen at different times throughout the day because that's the other thing. Because with my work, I work 12 hour days, 14 hour days when I'm working and I need to be as mentally fit at the end of the day. So I try not to. Because for me there's certain routines that I think are very valuable. But for me also, I don't want to get into some sort of ritual that then ends up turning into superstition.

Right.

Like if these, if A, B, C doesn't happen, then I can't do my job because I can always do my job job if I, you know, this morning it's early here on the west coast. I didn't have time to meditate. I just had time to make some coffee and I was like, you know, and I was like, I hope I'm, I hope I can speak.

You don't want to be like those guys in Bulder, Remember the guys with the. He had to put the chicken on the bat. He had to put that you want.

To be there because it's not true. Because it is an improv. Right. So every day is different. And I just had faith that you and I were going to hit it off. We had met, but I was like, we're going to, we're going to find something. We're going to have a conversation. I don't know where it's going to go, but I'm sure we'll talk about something interesting. But yes, I'm very disciplined right now about meditating.

Also.

The biggest thing, the only muscle that I didn't talk about, I guess we talked about concentration. That's been the thing. So very little device time. Going back to reading much, much more because I need to be able to stay concentrated for long periods of time. And I could see that that muscle completely atrophied, right. Because of all of the distractions that we have. So I take that very seriously. And then exercising every day at different times and I think those, you know, and the most important thing is like controlling my thoughts, my actions, you know, being, you know, being responsible for them and making sure the collars and the cuffs match, that I'm walking the walk and being who I say I want to be.

Right? Yeah. Well, one, one good thing about this time that we're living in now, maybe this is not the case for me. It is. I don't have to think about matching my socks to my shoes anymore.

Exactly. You don't? No, I don't.

I'm saving a bunch of money on socks and shoes and pants. Oh, man. Well, listen, I think winning, as you said, when you win the morning, you win the day. And I want people to, to. If you haven't heard that before, or if you have heard that before, like I have, but just haven't thought about that in a while, it's a great, It's. It's just such a. It's so concise. Sometimes when you just put something in your pocket, like, that's like picking up a stone or something, you know, something really powerful about something that packs that kind of wisdom in such a, you know, something bite sized. So win the morning. That's it. Win the morning. How do you win the morning? So that begs the question, how do you win the morning? Well, for me, how you win the morning? How I win the morning is by how I wake up. I got to do like my grandmother said years ago, she says, just leave that, you know, leave on the right foot. Leave. Take. Take that first step out of, you know, on the right foot. To me, the right foot isn't. Isn't. And I'm not saying this is wrong for anybody else, but it's not picking up my cell phone, it's not checking email or looking at text messages or Facebook or anything like that. So that's not the right step for me to start the day. The right step isn't to begin the worry process, to think about work too quickly. It's not to, it's not to turn on the TV and watch the insanity that's happening all over. I mean, all over the globe, but certainly in our country at the moment. Those are just the knots. The. What I do every morning that is the right step for me is get out of bed to begin with. I put my feet on the floor. I recognize in that moment that not everybody's doing that today. There are people that went to bed when I went to bed last night, put their head on the pillow, didn't wake up.

Right.

They don't get another, another day. That's like we said earlier that, that the. It's such a, it's such a gift this day. What we do with. It's our choice how we improv, how we, how we apply some of those things that you were sharing with us, how we lean into rigor as. And not feel like rigor's, like, tough, like it's, it's. It's not. That's. That's. Life is about rigor. Like, we develop our rigor. We'll have a. We'll have a lot of time to rest at some point. I mean, that's. That's true, too. So. So I have sort of three things I do at the beginning of the day. I wake up. So I hope everybody's right now going, yeah, I'm going to wake up tomorrow. You down for that, Reed?

I'm down for that.

That there's something to appreciate, be grateful for in that waking moment. Down for that, too. Yeah. And then the third piece, which is something I say out loud that I really believe that we. We get to claim our good. That's a kind of an old metaphysical term. Comes from Emmet Fox. How do we claim? You know, like the way people used to stake a claim when back in the old gold rush days, you're staking your claim by the first thing that comes out of your mouth. Like, we've already had a lot of thoughts. By the time that we've kind of put our feet on the floor, we've already had a dozen or ten dozen thoughts, whatever. But what's the first thing that comes out of your mouth? I think is really, really telling. And for me, it's these four simple words. I did a TED talk that was all about these four words. I love my life. That's it. I love my life. And today it's kind of comma. There's kind of a comma after that that says, no matter what, no matter who's president, no matter anything that you can think of that you feel uncertain about or that I feel uncertain about it, I'm going to love my life no matter what. So, you know, maybe. Maybe those are words that fit for you and your life, Reid. Or maybe it's other words, and for everybody out there, just choose something. Doesn't have to be those words, obviously, you know, but put your take. You start the day on the right foot, I guess. Yeah. And, Reid, it's been just a blast. Thank you so much. Love it.

Thanks, Adam. Yeah, it's been fantastic, tremendous.

Anything, Any final words you want to say?

No, I just love that you said that, because that's, you know, and that's. In the darkest moments, I was. I realized, like, I've got it so good, you know, I'm married. Love my life. I've got an amazing kid. Like, I have. I already won. I won. And, you know, if we have to live in our. You know, in our car, we'll live in our car. We're fine. You know, it's exactly so I think ingratitude is everything.

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