Storytelling: Connecting The Right Message To The Right People With Geoffrey Klein

Welcome to the Conscious Pivot Podcast with international speaker, business mentor, best selling author of Pivot and your host, Adam Markell. The Conscious Pivot shares the stories and wisdom of people who have successfully reinvented some area of their business and personal life. You'll gain powerful insights into how you can fully embrace new opportunities, increase your performance, and master the art and science of innovation and resilience. So please join Adam as he guides you on your Conscious Pivot.

Hey everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Conscious Pivot podcast. I'm your host, Adam Markell. I feel incredibly blessed to be with you today, to be alive, to be in this moment actually set the intention. I have this screen that comes up at the beginning of my day on the computer screen anyway that sets asks me for an intention. And today what I wrote down was being unconditional with myself. And I won't, I won't digress too far into that, but it really is in very, very much a case of wanting to just remove the conditions and the judgment that I am. I notice, I notice more and more starts with me that, that the judgments I have about myself ultimately end up turning into the judgments that I have about others where it is that I'm withholding love or making the love for my, for myself conditional that that's both the same thing that I will do with other people and what I feel even from other people at times. So really personal way to begin, but I wanted to be fully transparent about where I'm sitting in this moment feeling really lucky, just blessed to be be here. Brand new, beautiful year. I have a great guest today. Somebody that's not just a person that I've had a sort of a superficial interaction with or that I know of or some of the situations that we sometimes have in businesses. We don't really get to know somebody too, too well, but we consider them a friend nonetheless. I mean, obviously with social media we have a lot of people we call friends that, you know, that term has sort of been diluted just a little bit. This gentleman I consider a friend, I do think I really do know him. I have a beat on him. He's a really good man, somebody that we've spent some time together, we worked together, et cetera. His name is Jeffrey Klein and his career over the last 25 years has been about helping connect the right message to the right audience for the greatest impact. So he's very much a heart centered leader. This is how I would define him. He's also worked on major motion pictures at Paramount and at MGM Studios. In addition to running a content marketing agency, Jeffrey is an adjunct professor at Temple University School of Media and Communications. And Jeffrey's presented at the TEDX Lehigh river event and lectured all over the world for universities and agencies and organizations. And I feel just wonderful that I get to have him on the show today. So, Jeffrey, great to have you here, buddy.

Welcome, Adam, thank you so much. I appreciate it. And it's always I find value in communicating with you, whether it's on a personal or professional level.

Thank you, brother. Hey, you know, I've said a few things about you in that bio, but, you know, sort of what's not written in that bio that you would love for people to know about you?

Well, you know, the intention of connecting that message. You know, my company is called Nine Dots. We try and connect the dots. And for me, everything kind of starts and ends with story. You know, that's what my TEDx was about, the power of story. And both, I think, in the way that I live my life personally, but also professionally, my job is to help others tell their story in a more impactful way. I really believe that it's about connecting with people and that the best way to connect with people is, you know, through effective communication. And the best way to do that is by telling a story. And there's the science behind it and there's our own experiences that we find. We've been telling stories naturally since we were little kids, and I think sometimes as we grow up, particularly in business, we become the fact people and we have all the, you know, the bullet points of things that matter and sometimes lose the ability to connect with people and to have them understand what we're talking about because we're so focused on proving something rather than communicating.

Yeah, the narrative is so powerful. It's funny when you talk about the name of your company, Nine Dots, and this concept of connecting with people. It brings me back to when I was about 23 years old and I was a middle school English teacher, which I did for a couple of years, just two very exhausting years to be exact. And I remember saying to these kids, mostly 7th and 8th grader at the time, I'd say, you know, life is. Life is man, life is complicated. I didn't have a clue how complicated life really was at that time at 23, but I said, life is complicated and one of the best things that you can ever do. And the faster you could learn this, the better. And looking back, this was really pretty sage advice to give to these kids. I said to Them. It's really just about connecting the dots. You could just figure out how to connect the dots. In life. You will be. You will be doing pretty well. And the reason that I was saying that them is just trying to motivate them to see the relevance of the Robert Frost poetry or, you know, any of the other things that we are reading and checking out and talking about. And I wanted them to see that even if they couldn't necessarily, you know, understand exactly what it was or why we were diving into some. Some particular story, that their goal was simply to see how they could connect it to some aspect of their life, where could they connect the dots for themselves and find the relevance in something. And I think that's. That's in many ways what a story does for people. Right, Jeffrey? It. It helps you. As you said, you did a TedX all about storytelling. So is that. Is that the primary function of a story, to help people to see, to. To see something in a new or different way and make it relevant for them?

Yeah, I mean, I think there's a couple things that really allow stories to do with people. And, you know, it's a shame in some ways that, you know, the phrase connecting the dots has been overused and become somewhat of a cliche. Nine dots is based on a puzzle where the concept started. So I feel okay using it because I've gone to the source. But I think, you know, with a lot of things that we talk about that are kind of simplistic in their way is to uncover the truth of them for that individual person. And for me, the power. I grew up listening to stories, mostly my father, my grandfather, sitting across a table. They're both judges, and they would regale stories of different cases to each other. And I would just watch them communicate and seeing that point of connection. And I think the thing is that you want to communicate effectively, and I believe that story's the way to tell it. But there's still better stories and not as effective in the way you tell the story or what the story is that you tell. And I think one of the things in businesses, we often are telling stories about ourselves and forgetting about the audience. And I think one thing is that you need to try and connect with that audience, be relatable to that audience. And so in terms of the power of what a story can do, it can take personal experience and touch someone out in the audience. And I think that from a personal level is why stories are so wonderful, because you can meet someone that you don't know well and you find a story that has some shared threads. I think it's those shared threads that bind people in their experience. And I think we're all looking in life for some sort of sense of belonging. And the way that we do that is through the touch points of our experience. And then the way we connect to others is by having those stories where we've had. It might not be the exact same situation, but we can relate to something that someone else has done. And we can feel those emotions, we can feel those sensory experiences that we've had because we're all human. At the end of the day, we.

All have your ability to tell a story, or when you find yourself in someone else's story, there's a sense of belonging, there's a sense of I'm not alone. Is that what you're in essence saying?

Yeah, I think that's, you know, in terms of trying to connect people, to feel like, oh, I'm not alone. And not only that, but in that interaction, I'm with you. So it's not even that I'm not alone, but in the moment, in that presence, we have an ability to relate to one another. And I, you know, I remember your story about the baseball card as an example, you know, that experience for those listening, you know, Adam had an incident where he lost a valuable baseball car when he was a kid. And so we've all lost things that we've cherished, whether they were of value financially or otherwise. And so when someone tells you a story about an experience you've had, there's often a corollary in my own life or in someone else's life. And it's that ability that I think really helps people understand and connect what your. What your message is about.

So if I was going to find the through line in what you're saying right now, I would say this is one of the ways meaning through a story, you can find yourself present with someone else, not just physically present.

Yeah. And again, you look at some of the science in terms of how our brain works. And when, you know, this research that was done by this neuroscience in Princeton, they have a concept called neural coupling. So that if you're telling someone a story about when you kick the ball and the part of your brain, the listener mirrors that of the teller, where you're both experiencing, from a brain perspective, the experience of kicking a ball. And so that in terms of throwing, it's a way to both be present because you're having the same biological chemical reactions at the same time. And so, yeah, you are present and your activity in your brain is heightened. When someone tells you a story, they're paying attention, which sadly, is something that we keep losing more and more of. And so the ability, I think presence is a great through line in terms of the power that story can have. And again, we're talking about this personally, but I do this for business all the time, where we're trying to get at the heart of what matters to people as whatever their product they may be selling, it's the person that they're trying to help. That's the important part, trying to understand the audience, making the audience the center of your story.

Right. Well, you mentioned that story of my having lost this valuable 1973 Willie Mays baseball card when I was about 8 years old. And it's funny because you and I met at an event. I don't remember if I told that story there, but it was definitely a story I tell in the book Pivot. And then ultimately you came to one of our speakers trainings because you were in a sort of a pivot stage yourself. Part of your pivot, I think, was in not. Not in changing your business because you're still in the. In the same business space. But I think you yourself wanted to be more skilled, I suppose, at not just public speaking, but at public storytelling. And, and that became the topic that you took on when you stood on a TED stage. Why don't you tell us about that? What was it like for you to first go from, let's say, the level of speaker training that you and I were doing together and then ultimately for you to decide, hey, I'm going to do a TEDx. And just what was that journey like?

Was it, well, I should start the journey. We'll start from our experience because it was a pivotal moment in that evolution during the heart of enrollment. I'll give a shout out to the amazing program that you guys do because it's amazing was, you know, understanding that the power story, something that meant something to me, and I'd had some experience with it, and how do I take that and share it with others and help them share it with others? And that's kind of, you know, my goal is to help people, to have that impact on people by them not only understanding the value of and the power story, but then going and doing it for others or having that connection and continually growing the kind of network and connecting those dots. And so it's interesting, I had developed a presentation called the Science of Story based a lot on some of the research that had been done in terms of the difference in how our brains react when we are given information only versus when we're given when someone tells us a story. And basically our brains light up when someone tells us a story. So I would, you know, a TEDx talk was something I was definitely interested in. I thought it would help give me some credibility and it would give me a platform to kind of share my message. And Philadelphia didn't have an active TEDx program at the time, and they're still. So I've been aware of Philip, so I'm like, okay, where else in my area might there be some. And so I found one in Cape May and one in Lehigh Valley, and I reached out to both. The one KMA had already, you know, gotten their speaker slots, and I applied the one in the Lehigh river and, you know, kind of gave, you know, my very kind of simple piece about the science of story and the importance of it. And then I had a conversation with Lisa Gensler, who's the license holder for that TEDx. And I can't say enough amazing things about her. She took my small idea and really developed it. And I think that's a critical piece of a successful TEDx talks. And I'm sure you've had. I mean, you've had a lot of speaking experience, but for me, having the coaching that I had with her and part of it was whether I was open to crafting a talk that would be fit in with their program and what they're trying to do and being a value to them, it was curious that their, you know, Most of these TEDx have a theme, and the theme of the one I did was called intention by design. And I liked it because I think the difference, the ideal is trying to share with people was that to be intentional about using story in their lives in ways they may not have been doing to help them communicate better.

Right.

And so I basically had gotten through the first round of candidates, and she said, you know, there may be something here. I'm not sure yet. Would you want to. Are you willing to go further? Are you willing to be coachable? And my mother's an executive coach, so that's a term I'm familiar with.

Are you coachable, Jeffrey?

My mother would say, yes, I'm being.

Cheeky with you because I've worked with you, so I know you're coachable. So, yeah, so you went in with an open mind, and here she is. She's saying to you, listen, you know, to go deeper with this thing, there's more work required yeah, right.

There was work. And I think that was the part that a lot of speakers, including me, sometimes forget. Like, oh, I've spoken a few times. I'm comfortable on stage. I'll just go up and share my message and it will be easy.

Right?

And sometimes what I found that speaking can be simple, but not never easy, and that even the best speakers have done tons of work in the background that no one sees. And so you see someone on stage and you go, oh, my God, they're amazing at this. And there's always so much work that goes in to it. And that. That's the part that I kind of hadn't expected as much to do as I thought, because I had my little presentation kind of done.

So what was the most excruciating part? I'm inserting that word. That may not be the case, but having worked with so many that are Preparing to do TEDx talks or have done them, et cetera, or keynote speakers, we all know that there's either the element of the construction of the talk can be one area of excruciating pain, meaning the editing, getting it down to the number of words that would be speakable in 18 minutes or less. That's one excruciation point. And the other is the presentation itself, meaning sort of getting over whatever stage fright you might have or being fully present on stage to deliver it in the most impactful and effective way possible. So what was it? Was it one of those. None of those. Something else. What was that like?

It was definitely a combination. You know, I like to write, so the writing wasn't hard. But what I realized is the difference between me being a good writer and a much better writer is rewriting. And I find in my writing, I'll write something and I'll be like, no, no. Rather than work on that piece, I'll go start something new. I think a lot of creative writers have that element where they've written and they don't want to spend the time to really make it better. And so that was definitely hard. It was hard to hear from the coach, this doesn't work. And for me to have to give something up that I had in there and then not only give that up, but then find something else, you know, it's hard not to. You take the material very personally. And so it becomes a challenge to give up ownership in that coaching relationship. And then if you like a piece of what you've written to say, you know what, this doesn't fit, and to have the wherewithal to be like, even though this may be nice and you want to cuddle it, and it's really to be able to say, you know what? It doesn't go with this talk. I got to get rid of it.

Hemingway called. Yeah, writing. Writing is on a good day. It's excruciating. All just by itself for me.

But.

The good news is we're not alone in this. You know, even Hemingway said that, that writing, the essence of great writing, is to learn how to kill off your darlings. And that's what you're describing, killing off your darlings. I had like 4,000, almost 5,000 words to begin with, which would have been two TED talks, not one, but two. And you go, well, what do I cut? And what. You know, and what are the things that you're willing to just go, this isn't going to actually serve the through line, the main. That main idea. And so it is. It's writing is rewriting, and you've got to kill off your darlings. And all of that over time, like you said, is work. It's just a lot.

It's a lot of work. And again, having someone support you in the way that I had was. Made a huge, huge difference. Not only in the comfort of giving up my darlings, but in taking what I had and making it better. I think to have the confidence, like you've written something you feel good about and then being able to say to yourself, you know what? This can be better. And to push yourself beyond that comfort zone to get to a place where you feel, wow, this is pretty good. It's better than I thought it could be.

You were incredibly fortunate, too, because it's very rare that you get a TEDx organizer or organizing team that will put that time in. In fact, when we work with people, often it's because they are either wanting to do a talk or they've even been accepted to do a talk, and now they're literally knees are knocking because they don't. They're just not prepared or they don't think they can get. Get to where they want to be. And so that coaching, like you said, is so crucial, but when you have somebody, you know, who volunteers themselves to help you that way, it's a big, big deal. And I'm sure. Did you. Did you buy a nice present? What'd you do?

I still thank her now. I gave her one of my children. I figured that was the easiest way, you know, about three I could give up.

Well, yeah, except when exc. When they go to college and then should Give them back.

Yeah, I recognize how fortunate was and I, and I did consider at different stages, you know, getting professional help. And I think one of the areas where people don't recognize is, oh, if you're a professional speaker, you don't get help. You're just a professional.

Oh, my goodness. Yeah, we work, actually work with a lot of professional speakers. I worked with a mentor when, when, when I was contemplating this whole thing. And I've been speaking professionally for, I don't know, seven or eight years. At that point, I'm like, I can't see. I can't see myself. There's no, you know, the blind spots are enormous. Yeah. That might be the worst part is the arrogance of thinking somehow that just because, you know, I've. I ran a chapter of the BNI or I used to do my local, you know, whatever meetings, and you go, oh, yeah, I could do this.

Yeah. And I think that the humble. Having humility in this as a speaker is important. And you can tell because again, as you've taught me and others as well, your role as a speaker is to be a teacher. And really what you're trying to do as a speaker, at least from my experience, the good ones are trying to serve the audience, not serve themselves. And I think if you're going to serve the audience, the best way you can do that is making sure you're as good as you can be. And that's a process that goes on every day, every year, and, you know, forever. And I think, you know, I'm lucky that I've been, I have that kind of lifelong learner, you know, DNA in me. My father, who was a judge for, you know, 35 plus years, still likes to learn, you know, at. And he just turned 80. And so that is part of the inspiration I have is to be, you know, and hopefully share with my kids is like that thirst that, you know, Curiosity.

Yes.

Hunger and what you can learn about stuff keeps, Keeps things interesting and keeps, you know, I think you motivated as well.

And humility is, Is, I think, the most. Well, at least for me anyway. I'd say that's the word that. That's been around, knocking around in my head since I was 18 or 19 years old. And I didn't even know why it was that I was so hung up on arguing with my dad at the time about how important humility was versus, you know, I guess maybe the other side of the coin is arrogance or something, but confidence. Yeah. I mean, there is, there's. There's an element in which we, when we're in service of something higher than ourselves, that our own ego, or whatever you want to call it, our own agenda, is backseated to something that's more important. I think your talk, by the way, give the title of the TED Talk, because I'd love for people to check that out as well.

It's called Story Matters. Tell one that matters to your audience.

Okay, so Jeffrey Klein, Story Matters. If you just put that into YouTube search, you'll find it and the talk has done well. Jeffrey, so what do you think?

I mean, that means a lot coming from you.

No, I. First of all, I loved it. And when it came out, I was like, you know, I thought you really, you nailed it in terms of. I would love for you to share what the through line is if you be kind enough to do that. And then, I mean, at last I checked, Maybe it was 50, 60, 70,000 views and very positive comments. So, I mean, regardless of what I thought, the market has spoken loudly.

I just crossed 100, so I feel good about that.

Wonderful. That's so great.

Yeah, for me, it was trying to communicate that the best way to connect with people is through story. And I tried to share that a story grabs people's attention in a world where that's at a huge commodity. Yeah, just repeat that. I think that story can help capture a person's attention in a world where there is very little, where we're always fighting and struggling. There's two concepts I talk about in the talk. One is the idea of infobesity. You know, there's more information in the world than ever before. And I think the statistic was that in the last two years, there's been more information, more content produced than in history before. And so we're constantly bombarded with noise. And so whether it's in your personal life or in your professional life, you need to try to cut through that noise. And our attention spans are getting smaller and smaller. So how do you do that? And a story has the power to cut through a. Just by its nature. You know, when someone says to you, let me tell you a story, we perk up. You know, we've been conditioned. We're hardwired for thousands of years to want stories. And I think that's the thing is it's nothing new in terms of the way humans behave and want to connect with people and want to share. And in that collective narrative, it just got harder and harder to do it.

Right. And our attention spans are, are not just shorter, but they're more in demand. So we're being marketed to or provided information at such a lightning, you know, pace that this is. This is actually sort of hacking something that. That is as ancient as we are.

Yeah. And I think, again, the things that matter to me is about the audience, and I talk about that. I, in my class, what I call the 11th Commandment, which is know thy audience. And it's because we're so egocentric as people. And in general, you know, I talk about businesses and what do they do to say how great they are and how, you know, look, we've won this top award or we won this, and nobody cares. Nobody cares about what they can do. They only care about what they can do for them. And I think that the what's in it for me factor is critical to connect with people from a marketing perspective, if you don't understand what they're looking for, and it doesn't matter what story you tell, because they're not going to resonate with it. Which is why when we help create videos or animations, we start with the problem of the person that you're trying to market to. So if you're struggling with coldness and you need heat, you know, we can provide heat. But if you're cold and someone tells you a story about being cold, you're gonna immediately go, oh, wait, I'm cold. I need to know how to not be cold. And so for me, the TEDx, the kind of through line was, you know, use all these resources that story has for you and find a way to connect it to the audience so that they will care.

That's right. Use their attention, grab their attention. As you said, using something that is, we're hardwired to want to hear a story and then have that story be relevant for them, meaning that it's about them. Not necessarily just something you want to share, but something that in the marketing sense will solve a problem that they've got or convince them they've got a problem that they don't know they have.

There's a little that still going on still. Again, like, you know, there's a paradox because I talk about something that I believe, the story paradox, which is on the one hand, effective stories are usually personal and then. But at the same time, we need to make them connect to the audience or they're not gonna be interested. And that. So there are elements of how you do that. And I think part of it is making sure that you're using things that everyone has. So fear, sadness, excitement, emotions that we all have. So if I'm Telling a story about a time when I was scared, if I know that's something that's going to resonate with the particular audience I'm speaking to, that I'm in with a chance because I'm trying to get them to get over their fear or I'm trying to get them to get over whatever issue they're having. And so by using those emotional components. And stories are perfect for that because we relate to the characters we're listening to when we identify, oh wait, the hero there had, you know, the journey that the hero takes is something people like to follow along and root for. And if they have that same issue, they're gonna, you know. One of the things I found interesting was so they did some research and oftentimes someone will tell you a story, it's a really good story, and a few weeks later you'll see that your friend at a party that you told the story to, and your friend will tell the story back to forgetting that you told it to them because they made it their own. And I'm like, that's the beauty of it all, is when someone does that, then you know that you connect to it because they like the story so much, they've internalized it as their own story. And it shows the power that you can have with people when you have a really good story.

So now you got me totally curious, Jeffrey, that I want you to close the loop on the story about the Willie Mays baseball card with ultimately what you did, because that was so moving to me. But what was it about hearing that story or reading the story that had it be about you? I'm just curious what was in that story that.

Yeah, I think so part of it was being a kid. You know, I'm a big kid and so. And I have kids. So I think there was something about, you know, and that's something that immediately related to me was like you were telling a story about when you were a kid. Well, guess what? Everyone's been a kid. And any adult has had the experience of being a kid. We've had different experiences, but we've all had the experience of being young and having grown ups around us. Good, bad, ugly. But we've all had some shared experience of what it's like not to be a grown up. And so I think there was something in your story that immediately was like, I had a very loving, wonderful child. But there, you know, it doesn't mean there weren't times where I was not pleased with my parents for one reason or another. And so I think that was the element of like, frustration, you know, that emotion that you were sharing, like, mom, what are you doing? How can you let him take, you know, how could you let this happen? Where they were just shoving cards into the bag without any thought of the importance of them to you? And I think we've all had experiences, I think, where parents and children, because we have different responsibilities and we have different things that, you know, priorities that as a kid, the things that are your priorities are not often are not always the priorities of your parents.

Sure.

And when they, when they conflict you, you. It's a frustration place. And for me, I think I. I just, I felt that I was there going, how do they not know not to get rid of your rolling maze card? You know, that was the card that give him every card. But that one card would have been okay. And just the, you know, so I think it's. And whether you're a kid or in general, there are times where people don't get you. And I think that was a time where you was. And you were sad. You lost something too. And we've all grieved the loss of lots of little things along our life and some big things. I think it was without you knowing those two emotions of frustration and loss that connected with me.

Yeah, I appreciate you sharing that. I've having told that story pretty much all around the world to a lot of people at certain times in the past, I've heard lots of different things about it. You know, there's an element of trust and the breach of trust that comes up in that story. There's a very strong component of anger at an early age of just being angry and having a lesson about trust that only sort of extended into later years in life. That was a part of the through line of that story. And it's so funny because I remember being at. I was doing an event in New Jersey, several hundred people in the audience. I end up telling that story on one of the mornings, and my mom was there and I had invited her. I knew she was going to show up at some point, but I didn't know she was in the room at that moment. Not that that would have changed it. I would have told it exactly the same way. But. But it. It's so funny that later on she. She said to me, oh, my God, I just. I never ever realized. And she didn't remember it that way either. You know, she was in New York and she had sent these baseball cards to me when I was visiting friends of hers when I was just 8 years old in California. And they, all these kids all had cards and I had to have my card so we could flip and trade and yada yada. And she sends all the cards and, and she addresses it to, to the family and the mom of one of the kids gives the cards to the kids. And there I'm sitting on the floor and see my cards in this other kid's room and, and you know the one card, my favorite betrayal that Willie Mays, it was, it was this betrayal and, and I could do nothing about it. I was so powerless at 8 years old to change anything. So even after, you know, having a shit fit and crying and everything else that was going on, ultimately being able to get my mom to, to acknowledge that there was a mistake made and them trying to fix it, you know, ultimately, as the story goes, the punchline is I, I don't get that card back, that card's gone. And so fast forward, I don't know, it's a lot of years, more than 40 years, let's call it. Jeffrey Klein is coming to one of our speaker training events and brings me this gift. And I think maybe it was the third day of that event that you gave me this gift, which was that 1973, fairly mint condition quality as well, this 1973 Willie Mays card. When Willie Mays played his last season as a New York Met. And it was just such a touching, touching thing. Touching gift, a very thoughtful thing. And I've thanked you before, Jeffrey, but I don't publicly say that, which is beautiful. What a great way to finish that story. Meaning you've become so, it's so interesting because you connected with the story and then ultimately you do something on your end which, you know, I've never asked you why you did it. I just assumed he's incredibly thoughtful, sensitive kind of thing to do. And now you're in the story. Now you're in that story, Jeffrey, because to get that, to receive that card is, you know, it closes a loop, right?

Yeah. I think part of it too, for me what prompted me to get it was because it struck me in a certain way I realized something. And this isn't a psychotherapy session, but I lost my mom when I was seven. So I think there may have been an element of like you were angry at your mom for what she did. And I've had anger for my mom dying, which is a silly thing to have, but as a seven year old kid that's what you do. So I think it may have hit me a little More than some, with that anger that he talked about. I hadn't even identified it when you initially asked me.

The betrayal, that feels like it comes through a little bit too, Jeffrey. Right. That the idea of somebody leaving you 100% tender age and you don't even know why, and it's impossible for you to understand that, really.

And I have to think that the flip side of that has been, in spite of that, I had such love in my life. My dad, you know, and I are super close. He remarried and I got. Not the wicked stepmother. Well, maybe initially, but eventually a woman who really changed who I was and a stepbrother who I don't make a distinction between him and my brother. They're just my brothers. And so I think I was able to, in spite of that experience, be grateful for how my life turned out in terms of the family I have and family. You asked me, is there anything about me that family's the most important thing to me by a long shot. And you started the podcast talking about unconditional love and made me initially think of my children. And I think that's what I liked about the way you put it was that, yes, most parents have unconditional love for their children, which I certainly do, and I'm definitely harder on myself. And I think there is opportunity for people to give themselves a break in the way they give their kids a break. Because, you know, so that struck me. But I think, again, part of my unconscious thought about how to be. To take a bad situation in my own life that ended up being. I was very grateful for. I had this opportunity to do that for you in a little way. And I think that's probably what prompted me to say, you know what? I'm going to see if I can get the card, which I did. So you told that story on one of our coaching calls, and I bought the card even though I was gonna see you for three months, I bought the card within the next couple days. And I think it was a way to be grateful for what you were giving our group.

Beautiful.

So thank you for that.

I'm thrilled with where this conversation has gone, especially having come back to the point where of entry, where we're talking about being unconditional with ourselves. And what the benefit for that is, I use as a reference point for myself continually. Not every day. It was for a while, but, you know, months in between now. But this incredible book called the Presence Process, and we talked about being present as a speaker, as a teacher, as a leader. That ability to be present is so important. And it's also something that think people have. I have difficulty with. I think a lot of us do. This book is really about the sort of the root of presence and the presence process is written by a guy named Michael Brown. He's South African. A lot of folks haven't heard of that book or heard of him, but really shout out to that. The quality of that. You know, a lot of what we're talking about now when it comes to early childhood influences, things that even are traumas, traumatic experiences, not necessarily negative, but things that just impact us, affect us. These are things that we have happened and then ultimately we end up where we are, which is why it's such a blessing that we're here. I use the word resilience when I'm more often than not these days when I'm out and keynoting and being hired by organizations to lead a conference or keynote an event, that kind of thing. It's on that topic of resilience. And what is it to be resilient. In fact, my own TED Talk in many ways is about what little hack or tool I have for creating greater resilience. I'd love to know what your ritual or rituals maybe just pick one of them for creating more resilience in your. In your business or in life, et cetera. As a dad, I mean there's so many things that, that exhaust us these, you know, from day to day.

Well, you know, I work for myself and I think the decision to do that was intentional. Especially when I had kids that were young and my father who could have been a very rich lawyer, as you know, he went to become a judge and he made that same choice intentionally because it enabled him to spend time he would never have been able to do if he had gone the other path.

Right.

And so the ritual, it's one that it's so simple. But I have the pleasure of most days being the first person to wake up my children and most days the last one to kiss them good night and just a simple little thing, but it connects my day and it's a gift of being present. Because my wife has a dirty little secret I'll share. She takes photographs of my 10 year old son sleeping. I mean she has for years. And so we'll eventually have this collage.

He's gonna love that at his wedding someday for sure.

Yeah, he doesn't we. So we may see how long it can. Although strangely, the other day she fell asleep and he took a picture of her. So he's getting back at it, but the idea of when a child or your child is at peace and the ability to connect with them, you know, as they're just waking up or as they're just going to bed, it's a gift. And it's something that, whether I've had, you know, it starts my day off pretty well, you know, to be able, you know, they're a little cranky sometimes they get up. But I don't mind that because I feel like I'm one who's really getting the benefit of waking up because I feel that's there's a responsibility in there. They gotta get up and get out of bed and all the rest of it. But I get to be the first thing they see in the morning. And I usually, you know, I'm singing a little bit into their room. And then again at night, my wife usually is asleep before me, so Anita goes to sleep. I usually do my last round of good nights. And so I go into each of my kids. And it wasn't something I intentionally decided, oh, I'm going to do this every night. It's just become the habit that I love. And thinking about how nice it is to have that, you know, to bookend my days with three of the four people I love.

Yeah, Randy and I, we, we didn't intentionally divide up that, that, that opportunity. I was, more often than not, I was the bedtime story guy and Randy is the, the early riser. Get him, get him up and going. But it's a perfect way to transition, I suppose, into what I think is one, if not the most powerful, is certainly one very close to the top of the list of the most powerful rituals that we can, any of us can have. And that is the ritual for waking. Now, how do we start? This is the first everything of a brand new day. First thoughts, first walk, first steps, first words, first sensations, etc. So the, the ritual that, that I've adopted for so many years is the same. I remind everybody of it every time. And it starts with a question for you right now, Jeffrey, which is, did you wake up today?

I did, yeah.

And that, that's a loaded question all by itself, right? Because waking up is, is not just a physical waking, it's a metaphoric. There's more to it than just being conscious. But it is something that we get to work on every day, that we are a little bit more awake, more alive, and a little bit more conscious each day, if we're lucky. And if we're thinking about it, I think if it's our Intention. There's a good chance that we're increasing the odds of that being the case. So you woke up and when you went to sleep last night, you did your rounds and everybody was put to bed and you finally put your head on the pillow. Was there any guarantee that you would wake up this morning?

No guarantees.

No guarantees. Right. So you're finding yourself here today was maybe not unexpected in the sense that you probably assumed it would be the case anyway, but yet it's still something that is a surprise and a blessing and very much something to be grateful for. And so my morning ritual has been the same for a lot of years. I wake up, I get this sense that there's something I ought to be, I can be easily grateful for. And I recognize I have this recognition. Yes. Doesn't matter. You know, aches, pains, we wake up in different moods. I mean, there's all kinds of things that happen in our sleep, etc. Who knows? But in that moment, there's something we can be grateful for. And the words I use to express that gratitude are I love my life. I love my life. What are the words, Jeffrey?

I love my life.

Do you love your life?

I do.

Yeah. It's. It's like saying I'm grateful for my life. And even on some level, yeah, I love, I love myself without condition, you know, when I'm good, when I'm bad, when I do make the right choices, decisions, or when I don't. Still can love yourself no matter what. So really happy we ended the, you know, tied things up the way we did and can, yeah, transition from this moment into the next with this kind of presence. So, Jeffrey, what a gift to have you on the show today. Thank you so much for being a guest.

Thank you so much. Again, as always, our conversations are real, are valuable and appreciated.

Hope everybody's enjoyed that as well. Leave comments, questions. Go check out Jeffrey. His incredible TEDx talk, as well as more about him and his business does some incredible work in the marketing space. Look at the show notes for all of that and I'll just say, everybody, ciao for now.

Thanks for listening, everyone. We hope you now have the tools and greater insights to navigate your own pivot. Help us inspire others by sharing this episode and leaving your comments over@adammarkel.com podcasts for more tips, strategies and support as you consciously pivot into a new business and lifestyle you love. Join our Pivot community on facebook@pivotfb.com.