Strategies for Success When Your Entire Industry Pivots with Angela and Richard Schelp

Welcome to the Conscious Pivot Podcast with international speaker, business mentor, best selling author of Pivot, and your host, Adam Markell. The Conscious Pivot shares the stories and wisdom of people who have successfully reinvented some area of their business and personal life. You'll gain powerful insights into how you can fully embrace new opportunities, increase your performance, and master the art and science of innovation and resilience. So please join Adam as he guides you on your Conscious Pivot.

Hey everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Conscious Pivot Podcast. I'm your host, Adam Markell. And just sitting here with a big grin on my face and feeling wonderful. I get to spend some time with some folks I think are really going to be interesting for you all to learn from. Some people that I met a while ago and have great respect for. And I'm also sitting here feeling, I don't know, pleased with myself is, I guess, the only thing that's coming up for me right now. But I've really been keeping to my rituals, to the rituals and practices I've got on a daily basis to bring me into my heart space to help me to feel physically at my best. And these are challenging times for all of us and how we take care of ourselves is, I think, ever more important. So I'm just, I'm giving myself the proverbial pat on the back for keeping the rituals that I know serve me and allowing me to just be at my best creatively and in every way, I suppose. So I am, as I said at the beginning, really happy that I get to interview this couple. Now normally, as you guys know, I'm more of a kind of a one on one interviewer. So it's a little unusual to be in this threesome. Something I've always liked to think about, good at, but haven't had a lot of practice at. So without further ado, let me say a little bit about this amazing couple. I'm also really, I'm just drawn to them because they're in a great marriage, a long term relationship, committed relationship, and that today is not a typical thing. We all know that the statistics are not great on that. And so these are definitely folks that are outside the bell curve. I think there's a lot to learn from that. I feel incredibly blessed to be married to my darling wife. Actually, just last week we celebrated our 31st wedding anniversary. So it's a good thing to be in a relationship like that and to be around other people that are also doing things in a way that creates that kind of longevity and so maybe you're somebody that can resonate with that, or you are thinking, yeah, that's great. But maybe so far that's eluded you. So who knows? Maybe during this show you'll pick up something in the mix that will help you to create or attract that person into your life that you could be with for a really long time. Through the top times and the bottom times, the ups and downs. So. I'll start with Angela. I was going to decide which one, but now I'm going to just go for it. So I'm going to start with Angela. So Angela Shilp is the founder and co owner of Executive speakers Bureau. With 22 years in the meeting and events industry, Angela has extensive experience in guiding her clients to service speakers who will make their events memorable. Richard Shilp is the president, co owner of Executive Speakers Bureau. And for the last 15 years, Richard has helped lead the organization to an unprecedented level of growth. Known as a true expert in the industry, speakers and organizations from all over the world, Contact Richard for his insight on future trends and directions. And this is the part I really love. This beautiful power couple lives in the suburbs of Memphis, Tennessee, with their four wonderful children. That's something we also share in common, is four children. Not the same four children as pointed out in the beginning, but we each have four. So I'm going to start now with Angela, and I'm going to ask you, so what is not written in that brief bio that I just read that you would love for people to know about you?

Let's see. I actually love what I do here. It is so much fun. And I've been doing this now for 27 years. My bio is just a tiny old. But I started this back when I was really young, left IBM and started this company just with little. You know, I had one child at the time. We had one child at the time and wanted more. We knew we needed something with flexibility, so we made that decision to jump into this together and hadn't looked back. It's been really. It's been fun. It's been different at times, especially now. We've gone through a lot of ups and downs with business, but absolutely have loved it.

All right, Richard, this is like the Newlywed Game game, I think, because do.

I need to go on a soundproof booth?

It's the same. Yeah. We'll decide when you're gonna get the answer right. Even. Even as we sit here. In fact, that's the best part, I think, is to have your wife sitting next to you to determine whether or not.

You're right.

So I can hit you if it's not right.

She will hit me. Yes.

So, Richard, what's not written in your bio that you would love for people to know about you?

Well, first I'll say something about hers is that she is truly the sweetest person I know. And that's not. Yeah, but that's not so I can earn points. I just wanted to say that I.

Don'T hit you as hard.

Yeah, absolutely. I think the thing is the bio covers a lot of good things, but I think it's very important to understand that the way we approach things is more like servants in our role. We try to serve our customers, we try to serve our partners in the business. And really, that's a big push for me and has been in my career. Would you agree?

I agree. I think it helped both of us coming from IBM because we went through such strong training on customer service, and I think that helped in what we did.

We were both ex IBMers or former.

Both ex IBMers.

And that's where we met.

Wow. Okay. And this was so. I know men had to wear the white. The proverbial white collar.

Yes, we did. White shirts, blue suits.

Yeah. Was there also that kind of a required attire for women then?

Oh, there was. Well, I mean, you just. Suits were really important. I mean, we could wear dresses, but that was about it. They really wanted you to wear suits.

I still remember, though, with men that casual Friday meant you got to wear a blue shirt rather than a white one.

You got to wear a blue shirt.

And one guy was wearing a blue shirt one day, and everybody made fun of him and said, you're driving the bus today, aren't you?

Yeah. It's so interesting. I didn't know we would even cover, like, hit IBM somehow.

Yeah.

During this discussion. But I'm in Maine. I'm on the central coast of Maine at the moment, and right in this area of Camden, Rockport is. There was a part of the IBM family. Watson and family were right up here. They spent a lot of time here, a lot of summers here. And interesting.

It was a great company to work for. Absolutely loved it.

Well, probably the most important thing was the training, because somebody was asking me the other day, how come do you always kind of know how to approach each situation? And I said, we had it ingrained in us during that year at IBM when we did the training. It was one full year of training.

All right, Adam, this is a funny one. We had the phone, mail, police. So if your boss left you A message and you didn't return that call within an hour. You had to be called into his.

Office, is that right?

Yes.

So I mean, responsiveness is such a big deal. I think in any kind of. You think about what great client experience looks like. I mean, I was an attorney for 18 years. And the number one complaint, I'll ask you guys this, but I think we already gave it away. What do you think the number one complaint about attorneys is to this day?

Responsiveness.

Failure to return their calls. So you know, you have people that commit malpractice, you got people that are, you know, do. Negligent, you know, just negligent on the job, all kinds of things. I mean it's a very high stress environment for lawyers. But the number one thing that gets them in trouble with the ethics boards are simply, just, simply not responding to people's calls or their emails and that kind of thing. So I mean today, do you think it's gotten better or worse? You know how it is. We close the open loops of communication with folks. What's your experience?

I can tell she's got that. Anyway, I would say in some ways some people are much better than they used to be from a service standpoint, but there is still a huge gap. There's still a number of people that don't get how important it is to respond. We actually need to respond more immediately than we used to.

That's what I was going to say. Our customers expect it more now than they ever have. The bad thing is we get clients on the weekends at night that are looking for responses right away. So I feel like I'm online all the time.

But we also know that we're clearly a differentiator from a lot of our competitors that still believe you respond the way you did back in 1957.

We get it a lot where our clients say, I love that you're as responsive as you are.

Yeah, yeah.

And more responsive than you used to be even.

Yes, it's interesting that IBM was training that muscle. It seems this idea of how it is that you, you close those open loops with people and you think about.

It, that was 30 years ago.

Right. Well, I mean, think about this. When you speak about your IBM days, we're not talking about. It's the past tense for you to as employees there, but the company isn't in the past tense. And which is interesting because you think about the best companies in the world that are typically on this list. The Fortune 500 list, I just took a look at that list from 1955 when it was originated. And here's a trick question for you, Richard. How many companies were on the Fortune 500 list in 1955?

I would say 500.

There you go. Good man.

You can't get one past me.

Not that one anyway.

Right.

And here's less of a trick question, I suppose. How many of those companies do you think are around as a percentage today? I'll take an approximate.

I would say approximately 10%.

I'd say 5%.

Yeah, it's about 12%, which is.

You're closer.

Remarkably close. And the longevity, the average lifespan of a company of that magnitude in 1955 is about 60 years. So an IBM like company, and today that number is like 18 years. So, you know, the, the shelf life for these, even these sort of prolific organizations has gone down. And who knows, maybe, maybe, you know, you think about IBM still being around, still Big Blue is still out there, a blue chip company doing, doing cutting edge things. Maybe it's in part because of the fact that they did require this impeccable communication.

I'm probably so.

Yeah, I would say you're right.

And they spent the money on training, I think was a big deal.

They don't do that now, though. That is true.

Cut back the training budget. Is that what you. Yeah, interesting. Well, I know that so many things have changed and obviously when we're shooting this episode, we're right in the middle. I mean, I don't know where the middle of the pandemic is anymore. It's like you swim into the middle of the English Channel and you think, okay, only got another eight miles to go or something. It's like we're nowhere near the middle. Who knows where the middle is anymore?

Who knows where the middle is?

Right. So it's a question of, you know, what are we doing in the position we're in. And I'd love to get a sense maybe, because perhaps some people in our community don't exactly know from the BIOS even exactly what you guys are up to, what your company does. So maybe share a little bit about the business that you're in and then take us right into the belly of the beast. So you've been doing this for 27 years. Is this the worst pivot that you've seen? Is this the worst sort of market disruption you've seen in 27 years? And if not, take us through perhaps a couple of those other blips on the screen, on the radar screen, you remember, and then take us right to today and you guys can divide and conquer. That any way you like. I'm going to leave it to you.

If you want to define what we.

Do, you can go first on that, and then I'll jump.

Really? Are you going to slap my leg?

Yeah.

Okay.

So you guys are watching this get all worked out in real time. We're not even going to edit this out. It's perfect.

Okay.

So anyway, what we do for a living is we connect speakers with organizations who plan meetings. That's what we do. But I would tell you that it sounds like a very simple thing to do, but we've had to pivot many times over the 27 years. You've had nine, 11. You've had the financial crisis in 2008 and 2009, but this is by far the most difficult pivot. Now, the thing I would tell you, and then I'll let Ang jump in, is that when we pivot, we pivot every single day, not just when there's a big challenge. In fact, I was telling people we would still be making changes like we've had to make, even if we never had the pandemic. So I think that's important thing, and I'm going to throw it to you.

I think so, too. And I think that we've done a good job of staying ahead of the curve as far as what changes are coming and how to stay on top of things. And I think we've had to. Richard, when you joined the company, it was right before 9 11?

Yeah, just a few months before.

911 months before. So with four little kids, he decided to quit his job, day job, and join this.

Yeah, it was a lot of day job to quit.

It was a big one. And so it was a big risk, but we had to change quickly. And you think about, even when I started, there was no Internet, so that was a big thing to overcome, you know, so I had to. A lot of times I would go to the library and do research to find speakers. Once the Internet came along, it was a lot easier, but then we had to develop a website. So we've kind of gone through big pivots year after year. Seems like every year there's something big to pivot and change. And it's really. You know, it's funny, we looked at it recently, and this, like you mentioned, this is one of the hardest things we've been through.

Yes.

But it's also been kind of fun because we've learned some new things. I mean, virtual has been great. And I'm not sure that we would have tackled this so quickly if we hadn't had the pandemic.

Oh, yeah, you, Honor.

But we've jumped in and we've learned a lot and pivoted quickly and had some great success.

Well, we've also understood that you don't just take what we used to do and do that exact same thing virtually. Now we need to pick out all different kind of areas of business, and that's really important.

Say a little bit more about that, because I know in our community, the work that we do, which in part is my modeling what paid speaking looks like to people who want to become paid speakers or people that want to get on a TEDx stage, that kind of thing. So when you say that you've got to approach the virtual speaking thing differently, I think that's something people aren't quite getting yet. You know, they're used to doing a keynote. Maybe they practiced that keynote a thousand times and have delivered it all over the world, you know, and yet when you get in front of this little camera and you're on Zoom, it's entirely different environment. So very different.

Yeah, well, I mean, there's a lot of things that you have to think about. I mean, first of all is making sure that you understand that you create the venue, not the client, when you're in a virtual world. So therefore, you have to develop your home studio if you're a speaker. Also, it's really important to look at continuing education as an option for your clients. So you're not just going to do a keynote. You're looking to provide information and education over a long period of time.

And I think another part of it, too, is you're speaking to individuals, so you're not looking at, as a whole group anymore. You're speaking as to an individual. And it's almost like you're on TV instead of being in the keynote, doing a keynote.

You're talking to that guy on the couch and you're saying, get up off the couch and do your deal.

All right, so how is.

I think it's also more casual.

Yeah, well, it. There's no. There's no lights. There's no. There's no stage differentiating the person that's. That's in, you know, the audience member from the. The presenter or the expert, so to speak. It's leveled. There's sort of a leveled playing field of sorts that you're collaborating and in conversation, which is very different than being sort of a, you know, the font of knowledge and the expert with the wisdoms of, you know, the pearls to share and all that kind of thing. It's different, right? It's a different environment.

Absolutely. I would agree.

So are you talking about one other.

Thing I was going to say, too, is the sessions are a lot shorter. So instead of your standard 60 minute keynote, most of these are 30 minutes. And then they're wanting more Q and A.

Right. But. And I agree with that, but I also go back to what Adam was saying, because everybody kind of puts that speaker who goes on stage on a pedestal.

On a pedestal, exactly.

You guys are like the guy, oh, I want two minutes with that speaker. And that's one of the big things now. It's kind of like, well, he's just on zoom like I am. And so it is more of an even thing. And so you have to understand how you work within that environment. Even celebrities have to understand that as well.

Exactly. So that's a paradigm shift. It's a different. Just a different dynamic. You work with a lot of speakers and kind of coach them or mentor them as well to give them guidance. So what are some of the things that you've been sharing with your folks about best practices and this kind of a new age that we're in for.

Me, as best practices? I'm telling our speakers to get out there and do as much as they possibly can. If you can get on Instagram Live or Facebook Live, whatever you can do to practice and practice and practice and get feedback on it.

Yeah, there's no doubt about that. So the social media piece that you're talking about, posting things and that kind.

Of thing, just to get comfortable with it, the more you do it, the easier it is and the feedback that you get from your audience.

But also build your presentations around the fact that you're now in a virtual environment, incorporate Q and A in it, incorporate polling in it, breakout rooms, other things that keep the audience engaged. And you wouldn't even have to do that in a normal circumstance, but now you have to do it.

The best sessions I've seen have been the ones that are very interactive.

Oh, absolutely. And we've also had to coach people on getting the equipment for their professional studio. A lot of people hope that all they need to do is just have their computer ready, make sure they have a camera on it, got a microphone, do their thing. Now they've got to have lights, they've got to have microphones, they've got to have green screen, everything in the ring. A light ring.

Yes, yes, indeed. So let's talk about some of the. Well, the things that have changed. For example, the Engagement piece of it. I mean, to me, engagement is always sort of a non negotiable part of public speaking. That if you're not engaging people, they're drifting off or they're checking their Facebook page instead of, you know, sort of leaning into the content you're sharing. But right now, more than I think ever before, that that process of sharing information has got to be condensed. I think you are alluding to that, that, that the overall time of the presentation might have shrunk from 60 minutes to 30, but the individual modules, the things that you might share, the stories you might share, have also gotten to shrink. In fact, Nick Morgan was on our show a couple of weeks ago. We were just debating, you know, is it five minutes before you put people into a process or some kind of an exercise or is it 10 on the outside? I mean, you have a thought around that component as well. How long a speaker should kind of go on doing their thing, sharing their story or their slides before they actually turn it around and make it about the people that are there with them.

I think it's a little bit difficult because I've got certain clients that want to have a pre recorded session with the speakers. So then you are unable to have that interactive part. So you really have to have two speeches that you do. One that's. That pre recorded, that can be as exciting as it can be, but be pre recorded.

Right.

The other one that's live, you can really go from the beginning. I mean, I've seen speakers start out and as soon as they get on and they're saying, oh look, I see Susie's on from Rhode island and I, you know, and hey, raise your hand if you've ever been to Disney World, you know, and so they're starting out with it being interactive. So I think just even if you do your opening and jump right in and have some interactivity is great.

But you bring up a great point and that's the difference between a live and a prerecorded. And we're seeing probably about 60% of the presentations that organizations contract are live and the other 40% are pre recorded. So if you're pre recorded, you better have visuals, you know, multimedia, video, etc. That gets people's attention and keeps their attention and it, and it can't be really long. I'd say no more than 30 minutes.

Right. And one complaint we hear is when people use slides and then they're up in the corner.

Well, the person's up in the corner off the slide.

Yeah. So the slides on and the person up. They don't. Yeah, they don't like to see it that way.

So what's the specific feedback that you've gotten about that? People would prefer to have no slides and be looking at that person. And that's live or pre recorded or both?

In both. But a lot of times you run into that worst probably in a pre recorded situation because you don't have that interaction going back and forth. But the problem is that I think people want to see the speaker as close to them as possible. They don't want them to be a little tiny image in the corner. So there is some software, and I know, Adam, you're probably aware of it, that allows you to kind of have that PowerPoint in the corner like you're doing a news show.

Right, exactly.

And I think that they enjoy that more. But I think when they're seeing you on the computer screen, they're expecting it to be more like tv.

Yes, that. That makes sense. And if you look at some of the late night, you know, TV hosts, they're doing the same thing right there, right?

Jimmy Fallon.

Yeah, exactly. And yet they've got their graphics that are kind of, you know, off to the right or off to the left or whatever it is. Like the thought bubbles and things like that.

Exactly. Yes.

I would love to have thought bubbles.

I know, I love that.

Wouldn't that be kind of cool?

Right. You create your own thought bubbles as opposed to the ones that just bubble up on their own. That would be dangerous.

Perhaps that would be.

So these are certainly times of really pandemic change. And you've been through that before. In nine, 11 people didn't fly for nine or 12 months. I mean, so you guys were in this business at that point. Tell us a little bit about what the wisdom. If there's something you learned in that process of coming through that crisis on the out the other. I'm not strictly looking for the it'll be all right kind of thing, even though we know when the market returned it was all right. In fact it returned with greater velocity than before it ended. Were there other lessons, other things that you took away from that that helped you to develop business resilience? Because here you are, I don't know, it's 19 years later or 18 years later. Right.

So I think the one thing that really stuck with us is we just don't ever stop working. So.

Here's your resilience recipe. Yes.

Don't stop working.

Don't stop 24 7. It's OK.

I think a lot of people kind of took a break during the pandemic at the beginning and just stayed home. We, I mean, we just didn't. We still worked constantly. We still followed up with people. We still put stuff out. We were learning. We were using that time to create some new.

Know what's great. Angela is defining the work, right. Because as you said, kept working. But what did. What is work?

But work was a little bit different. It looked a little bit different because.

A lot of people are super busy. I don't know how productive a lot of people who are so busy are being, but they're busy. So are you talking about staying busy, staying active? You're talking about more targeted leveraged activities?

Absolutely. More targeted leverage activities. And one of the things that I would point out that 911 really taught us was to be more creative in the things that we came up with, the ways that we marketed. Obviously that would be different than the way we market today, but we had to think outside the box, and 911 started us thinking outside the box, and that is what we have to do now. So that's a lot of. That's translated to this. But, yes, we don't stop working and we continue to pursue things. And that is kind of a resilience over a period of time. But it's not just going after things over and over again, but it's coming up with more and more ideas. So I think the first things that we thought of when this started, we're not the greatest ideas necessarily in the world, but we've developed those over time because we just keep after it.

Right, right. So you didn't have. You didn't have the solutions when everything was kind of coming apart at the seams, or it seemed like it was, and you went into sort of. You. It was your instinct, or perhaps it's been your training, even your experience that led you to go, all right, let's go internal now. Let. Let's think about what we could be doing differently as opposed to sort of reacting to any number of other things that were happening around you. Is that accurate? Is that fair?

Absolutely.

This is very different than anything we had been through before, because when we went through 911 and the market shut down, we had certain clients that were still going strong. So there were certain industries that were not doing anything, but then there were other industries that were still booking events. The associations through the market crash still kept going strong.

So 2008, the financial crisis. Yeah, right.

Yeah, there's. Yeah, there still wasn't there.

The associations were still Going strong.

Yeah. Yeah, you're exactly right.

There was a lot. There was business to still be had. This was different because everybody shut down.

Everybody shut down.

But one of the things I think that is very important through this process, so many people that we talked to during this period of time did go into this incredible panic, not even focusing on what they needed to do or what they were going to do two months from now or a month from now. It was all about, oh, my gosh, what's happening to me right now? How is my life being impacted? And they couldn't focus outside of themselves. So it's very important for us to be very calm and be good solution providers and think out.

Yeah, we had to think outside the box and do things different. But all of a sudden, now we see this huge increase of business, and I think it is because we spent those first few months still working as hard as we could and figuring out what to do. So now, I mean, we have seen a huge uptick on the business coming in now on clients doing virtual events.

So we're at part two now, of course, our conversation with Angela and Richard Shilp. And I say part two because right in the middle of part one, we had a technology glitch. And I feel like it's just important to bring that up. Not just to be transparent about the fact that that's the case, but so many things in our world, they can just turn on a dime. They can change in an instant. You can have a challenge in technology so quickly, like the battery just runs out of juices. So many things where the camera, for whatever reason, is not working properly. And what do you do in those moments? I mean, do you have a. Do you. Do you have a fit? Do you lose your cool or, you know, allow that anxiety to just reach another level and then you're breaking out with a rash. I mean, there's so many things happening coming at us moment to moment. So any event, I'm so happy that we're back together. We blended our schedules, figured it out again, and we get to continue this conversation. So welcome back.

Thanks.

We're excited to be here. And it is. It's funny that you say that because it is so true. With technology now and the events that we're doing, you just never know what's going to happen. Part of it is you just go with it. You make the best of it.

Right. The things we would. We would expect or be able to sort of manage ahead of time when it came to standing on a stage where, you know, you did a mic check the day before you were in, and you checked your slides. I mean, there's a whole myriad of things that you would just be ready to check. And now in virtual events, there are a whole series of things that are anticipated and some unanticipated glitches or problems. You know, like with Zoom, I think just two days ago, Zoom went out for, like, four hours. I mean, like, yes.

Affected us. Yes.

I think that that kind of impact would affect every single person in the country pretty much.

Right.

Because everybody's got Zoom meetings, even if you don't have a presentation that you're part of still.

So why don't we use that as an example? Did you guys have some meetings going on where you had clients and speakers and, you know, folks that were affected by the Zoom outage?

Yeah. I mean, you can talk about even you had a personal meeting.

I had a couple of personal meetings to talk about their big Zoom meeting. So it was kind of a difficult one because I couldn't get on. And, you know, here we were talking about how they were going to run their entire event on Zoom, and I just kept saying, this is the only time it's happened. And, you know, things are going to happen. So just like we just mentioned, things are going to happen, and you just have to make the best of it. And it doesn't matter what platform you use or what technology you use, there's always a chance that there could be a problem.

One of the things that I think I would toss in about it, because here recently we've found out a couple of the platform providers, not Zoom, but some, you know, people that just manage the platforms have had huge outages where they had major events that they had to cancel. And one of the things that we can all think about in this day and time is because it is virtual. I think we need to be more flexible and more accommodating of a situation because of that, and understand that if a meeting doesn't happen, and maybe you're going to have 1,000 attendees that are supposed to be at this meeting, if it doesn't happen to be okay, that you can move it to two weeks from now or whatever, because those 1,000 people can come back together again. And it's not like they're flying into Las Vegas or Los Angeles or London. They are just having to come back to their desk in two weeks to be part of that event. I think if we can get our mindset to say that it's not so disastrous, we can put up with these Glitches and these little things that happen.

Well, and I had this happen. I had a very large, I think maybe 10,000 person audience recently that their platform went down. But you know what they did, they had kind of planned and had a backup. And so they told everybody, we're moving to Zoom. And so they sent out the Zoom link to everybody, and they switched to Zoom and finished up on Zoom the rest of that day. So they did it, you know, but they had anticipated and had a backup and knew what they were doing. But, you know, right now you've got speakers that are having to be their own tech people, which they've never had to do before. And so that's causing a lot more challenges because in the past, they had the tech team from the company. Now they are their own tech team, or they may have a spouse or a son or daughter that's running.

It just became their AV lead.

Different. Yes. So it's different. So no longer do they have the big tech team from the company, you know, so. So you just have to be flexible.

Well, I was just thinking about when they, you know, when we were watching Blake Shelton with his being remote for the television show, and they had sent all this equipment to Blake Shelton, and.

He doesn't know how to put it together, right?

Yeah, he didn't know how to put it together.

He's in Montana or something. Right. And so follow the voice. Yep.

Yeah. And so there is. You know, I was just on the phone with the speaker a second ago, and he said, we just got my studio where it's working, but he had to do it. It was his situation. But I think because of all that, even though people are getting better and better at these virtual events, and the virtual events are so much better than they were in March.

Oh, definitely.

But I think if people understand that we're humans that are involved in this and that it's not as life or death as it's been, that there's a lot. I think we can deal with this a lot, and you can deal with outages and downtimes and bumps and bruises without it being a disaster.

I mean, isn't that the thing about human beings, the condition of us on this, that we often catastrophize things, that we sort of make things disastrous in. In a lot of ways. Right. Almost by default. Like that's our default reaction to create sort of an irrational response to something. And I say irrationally because nobody is dying. Nobody has died. And obviously, from a standpoint of what's awful or a catastrophe, or disastrous when you analyze it, a zoom outage or a meeting being postponed or having to switch platforms or any of those kind of things, or even postponing a podcast, I mean, it's a really tiny blip on the screen of life.

You're absolutely right.

And I think you just have to keep things in perspective. Yeah, I do.

So is it possible that as a result of the massive change that moved. Let's just using this industry to move our face to face. Speaking to face to face. But virtual on zoom or some other platform, are there benefits that you guys can start to see that are emerging out of what was and is a crisis?

Oh, definitely. Go ahead.

I would say, first of all, it's more personal now. To me, virtual is more personal. Adam, we get to sit here and we're talking with you. We're having this great conversation with you. It could be on the phone and it's not nearly as personal. I don't get to see the room that you're in and all those kind of things. It's great. I think that I have met more clients in the last six months face to face than I ever saw in the last 10 years because of this technology.

Oh, me too.

So to me, that is hugely significant as far as what's going on. So I think that is a great benefit. I also feel like that we've discovered ways in which we can tackle the whole meeting industry that we didn't know before because of this virtual space. So I think our minds have expanded and the abilities of what we can do here is much greater as well. So, I mean, there is a huge amount of benefits I see from what's going on.

I do too. And I think going forward, I think we will always see the hybrid. Even when we move back to in person meetings, I think we'll have a hybrid where you'll have the virtual as well. Because people are realizing, you know, if you have an event where you're bringing in and you have, say it's a global company or, you know, you have multiple locations, there's only so many people that you can bring in because somebody has to stay back and run the office. But now you can have those people come in, the other people that are still at the office or, you know, they're international, they can log in and watch this event. So I think you're going to have that where you're going to see more of the combination in the future so that more people can attend. Because I think they're realizing that so many more people are able to attend when it's virtual than when it's in person.

Oh, no doubt, no doubt.

Right. So among those benefits are inclusiveness, this inclusivity that whereas previously it might be that somebody like you said has to stay home and man, you know, the phones, the sales team or the client care team wouldn't get access to something that might be going on. And now there's that added. Well, the ability to just bring everybody in and not sort of leave anybody behind, which is big. And it sounded to like you were saying that there's a lot of personal growth that's coming out of this as well. That that concept of how to be flexible in the midst of things you can't control or the glitches of life, that's its own benefit, separate, apart from what we do for work or for pleasure.

I agree.

Right.

And I think also you're going to see speakers because they've gotten so good at this. I think that when they go to an event and it's in person and they do a keynote, they're going to have more of the follow on programs that they can offer virtually. So, you know, now you can say, you know, for the next three months, on Mondays I'm going to, you know, send a, you know, 30 second clip, you know, just as a reminder of what you should do this week or something like that. So I think you will see more ongoing training from speakers.

Oh, there's no doubt about that. No doubt.

Because they can do that now.

Yeah.

You know, one little thing that's totally an aside. I think speakers are going to be a lot nicer to the AV teams as well when they're on site because they've been the AV team.

We can commiserate. They've got compassion for what it's like.

They're going to hug the AV team.

I was always big to bring coffee to the AV team, man.

Yes. Lots of hugs for the AV team.

The speakers so often, and I can speak for me as well, that took them for granted. The guys who were running all the lines and figuring out exactly how the sound is took those people for granted. That's not happening anymore, which is great.

Yeah. To me I'm only hearing benefits. So even in the midst of what took the industry to its knees for at least a few minutes. I think when there's hundreds of events that have to be canceled and deposits that have to be dealt with and speaker payments and just any myriad of other things that were going on, it was ugly for a hot second.

It was ugly for A while.

That's good.

Now.

No. And now I think what we see is that that change has created new opportunities. Like you said, when we come back, we will be back in the room with people again. But to me, the benefit of a speaker that now has the ability to be in conversation as opposed to a talking head, that speaker that knows how to facilitate as opposed to just weave stories, that same speaker that might have facilitation, continuity, follow up, continuity for that group so that it's not just something they walk away thinking, wow, that was great. But then two weeks later, they don't remember any of it. These are tremendous benefits, long tail benefits to the industry and to everybody involved.

Absolutely.

I think the speakers have had to completely redo so much of their talk because it's a different way to present. And I think that they've been able to step back and, you know, put a new, fresh spin on a lot of their presentations. And you know, sometimes when you're busy and you're just going, going, going, you don't have time to stop and do that. So I think that's been good to be able to take that time and kind of focus on the presentation and how to make it more personal and add those things in. And I think that'll definitely be a benefit going forward.

Yeah. And I think they've had to uncover skills that they didn't know they had as well. You know, they. I've heard people talk to me about, you know what? I think maybe I could be an emcee. Maybe I could do some of the things that I haven't done before. Maybe I can do more interactive type presentations. All these things were skills that were kind of hidden behind for them. Now they have to bring them out in order to actually succeed in the virtual world. So, yeah, it's definitely part of it.

I'd love it. You know, I didn't expect this would come out, but you're bringing up this, this skill set. And I'd love it if you tell us what you think right now for people who are making that transition from either the way they used to present to this current method or people just getting started even that would love to know what the best practices are in terms of, let's say it's no longer for the most part, a 60 minute or a 75 minute keynote. A lot of those keynotes have gotten reduced down to sort of 45 minutes because people.

30 minutes.

Yes, 30 minutes. Right. Zoom. 15.

Maybe even 15.

That's right.

I tell you, the hardest thing in the World for me, after having been speaking for more than 10 years, was to do a TED talk because the TED talk was only 18 minutes and some. Give me a whole day, give me a half a day to work with people. That's easy. Was easy compared to consolidate, create one through line, one key message that you only have 18 minutes or less to deliver. So yeah, 20 minutes, 30 minutes. It's sharpening the tools. What are some of the things that you're seeing that speakers have now discovered or are learning that is creating a more effective virtual keynote?

Do you want to start?

I think to me it's making it more personal because you have to remember, and we touched on this before that, I mean, you are, you're really talking to one other person. It's almost, you know, it's almost a one on one talk instead of to a big group when you're on, when you're doing this virtually. So you have to really change the way you think about it and make it more personal. And I think. I don't know. Go ahead. What do you think?

No, I agree with you. I don't disagree with you all. I think it's.

These guys are married 27 years.

Every night get that vibe.

This is what a good relationship looks like.

Disagreement. I think that is actually probably.

I don't necessarily agree with you, but I don't disagree with you.

Right. That's how I really thought that was coming along, actually.

I really do agree with you. And I think it's interesting that it's about trying to establish that connection between you and who you think that one person is on the other side of the screen. And that one connection is what they have to focus on. And if you're speaking kind of across globally.

Yeah, that's not gonna work.

That's not gonna work. It has to be this one to one type type deal.

It does.

And I think that's extremely important. So. No, I totally agree with you.

Okay, that's great. And well, and I agree, Adam. I mean, I think having them. You can't have your standard 60 minute keynote. And that's what we've done in the past. You can't do it. The majority of them that I'm seeing are about 30 to 40 minutes and they want a longer Q and A. I mean, I think the Q and A has gotten to be such a bigger piece now because it's more interactive. And so they want just enough of a message to get that, you know, out there and kind of get you thinking. But then they want to elaborate in The Q and A. And so I would say it's really important to kind of polish your skills on that moderated Q and A and get really good at that and have really good thoughtful answers when you come back with your, you know, when somebody asks you a question, you know, don't just kind of spout it out, but really kind of think about what you want to say. Because the audience a lot of times now is coming back and saying that was their favorite part of the entire presentation, was that Q and A. Because sometimes they don't know on the presentation if it's recorded or if it's live. But obviously in the Q and A they know it's live. And so they know that that's very personal to them. And so I think they're enjoying that even more. So I think that going forward, that is something we've all got to, you know, just focus on. Is that live Q and A?

Did you notice while you were talking that I nodded a lot to make sure I knew I was agreeing with you?

It was really great edification there, Richard. Excellent.

So what I would like to say too, on top of what you said, which is fabulous stuff, just letting you know that, is that you have to get good at both your pre recorded presentation style as well as your live presentation style. Because there is. The two are a little bit different. And so you have to make sure that you excel in both environments because you don't know what the clients can expect. Some will say we've got to have the whole thing live, so you got to be good at it. Or they may say we're going to do your session prerecorded, then 15 minutes of Q and A you pop on for. You have to make sure that that pre recorded piece just as solid as if you were live and in an interactive situation. So I think that's very important as well.

Yes.

So it has a lot to do with your energy. It has a lot to do with. Because we, our company, among other things, trains people to do TEDx speaking and prepare keynotes and things. And for virtual speaking, you have to break through that proverbial fourth wall. You're looking into a camera, you're looking into a lens. It's not going to give you energy back. You can't really feel in that respect. And as you said, when you're doing it live on zoom, depending on the technology, like our technology, we get to see and they get to see me when I'm doing it up front. And then we have a layering of the slides so they see the slides as opposed to just sharing a screen and only having slides that they're seeing. And that helps a little bit with that personal, the feeling of being personal. But when you're doing a pre recorded one now you've got to literally imagine, as you said, I mean, it is a bit of like acting because it is, you know, you're imagining who's that person on the other side of this, that as you're looking into and seeing them. And what you want is for your words to land and resonate and move them in some way. Because if one person's feeling it, the likelihood is others will feel it as well. And it's true. It really is a wonderful. I think it's an area for growth that only will pay dividends going forward, no matter whether, as you said, whether there'll be events that will just strictly be the way they were and then there'll be these new events that are a bit of a hybrid and then there'll be companies, I think that just figure out that the economics of doing a virtual training and having virtual presentations will outweigh some of the cost of getting a venue and all that other kind of stuff that can be really daunting and expensive.

I completely agree.

Well, I know that we've discussed this a little bit earlier in park one.

But.

Needless to say, you can actually upgrade the level of speaker that you have by moving it into the virtual space. So not only are you saving money, but the same money could get you somebody that's a couple levels above what you could have afforded in person.

I'm seeing that a lot right now because I've got people. There's people that we have worked with so for so many years and they've had these people on their wish list and now they can have the people on their wish list that they couldn't have before. So that's been fun for them.

Yeah. And they may not want to leave that. Honestly, when we get two or three years down the road.

Right. We shall see. And I loved what you guys said about having those contingency plans. So people that are watching this now or listening to this and knowing that you're kind of the chief cook and bottle washer, you're in charge of your AV and a lot of other things. It really is important to have those contingency plans worked out for when things happen because there are multiple ways to sort of solve things. Certainly if you're anticipating them when it comes to how it is that we produce that level of Continuing professional and personal resilience. Put it under that umbrella word for the moment. I'm a huge believer in rituals. To me, the power of and the quality of our lives even is equal to the quality of the rituals that we have. And I don't mean that I have spiritual rituals for sure, but this is not necessarily a spiritual or a religious thing. When you use the word rituals, it's like, what are the things you do consciously versus you brush your teeth with your right hand because that's your habit to do it, but it doesn't mean you're consciously doing that. So do you guys have rituals that you've created for either the quality of your relationship or rituals specifically with respect to your own physical health or your business? What are some of those things? I'd love to take a couple of minutes and chat about that.

You talk first, and I'll agree with everything you say.

Okay, see, that's a ritual right there. Richard agrees. He checks in. And he doesn't just agree with Angela. He makes sure he checks in to see if she'd like his agreement before he actually agrees. This is good stuff.

It's working, isn't it?

It's like a relationship course happening right in the middle.

I think for both. I mean, because, I mean, both of us, you know, we are up early every day and we're at the office early every day. It's just one of those things that's clockwork. I mean, we're up at the same time, we have our morning ritual, but we, you know, we're here early, and a lot of times, you know, we get home, we cook together and we won't go for a long walk with the dogs and then come back. A lot of times we may return emails or work a little bit more and watch movies. So, you know, I think for us, and especially during this time, you know, the time when it was very difficult to keep that ritual going, to continue to get up early. And every single day, no matter if the customers were not one to respond or not, you know, we still stuck with it. And every day sat down and worked the same amount of hours. And I think it came back quicker for us because of those rituals that we did. I mean, what do you think? Do you think?

I totally agree, Totally agree. But I would also say, too, part of our rituals a lot of times in the morning, because we're getting ready at the same time, is we'll have about 10 or 15 minutes of discussion every morning that really is about issues of the day to do with Business. It has to do with what major things are we going to have to try to address today? What do we think we want to do about this? Or maybe if we're doing some kind of a podcast thing, what are we going to say today? You know, all those kind of things is a normal thing that we will do every single morning when we're getting ready. So that is huge. And that's something that we do together. And I know on the way to work, I always take that. It's only about 15 minutes, but I take that 15 minutes and always think through the major things that I have to work on with clients during that day. And it's important for me to already map out my day before I arrive here so that I can hit the ground running. So those are two things that I would speak to that we're involved in.

Yeah. And once I get here, I have a, like a gratitude notebook. So I'll write down three things I'm grateful for and then try to. John Gordon has a great book on positive thoughts. And so I'll kind of read through that and sometimes jot that down as well, you know, and I try. I've been. This is what I've been trying to do recently. But just write a note to somebody that I think is, you know, that I would love to say a kind word to or thanks to or something like that.

By the way, I'm still hoping to make that gratitude list that she writes out every day.

I think today's your day, Richard. I mean, if I was a betting man, tomorrow, first thing it's gonna be.

Like, I'll put him in the notebook tomorrow.

He just agreed with me and he agreed with me. It's like he's making the tomorrow. We used to. The company I was running for a bunch of years, we had a special afternoon ritual. It was like a Wednesday afternoon at 3 o', clock, everybody got a half hour. And not just got a half hour. We really wanted it to be that everybody would take this time to simply send out notes of appreciation. So it was a half hour that the company basically shut down. And all everybody was required to do at all was to send out these notes of appreciation to people that they didn't just sort of otherwise have the time. You know, we all have that intention that we want to be grateful for folks and share, share it. But we're just so busy sometimes, so it took a little while. Believe it or not, people were just a hair kind of resistant to the ideas. Not forcing you be grateful. You honestly don't have to be grateful at all. I mean, this might not be the right culture for you, but we'll see. But the principle was really embraced at a certain point because it was the family and friends and folks that just got. When you go through your phone, just pick up your phone and start abcing and going, oh, my goodness, I can't believe I haven't spoken this person in forever. Now, wouldn't it be nice just even though I know we're not necessarily going to get together tomorrow or something, But I just want. I want that person. I'm thinking, and I do think about them, you know, and it's like, boom, boom, boom, I'm thinking about you, or I appreciate you. And it's, you know, you want to see miracle, a miracle happen. Send a few of those out randomly in a day and see what you feel coming back.

So nice. Yeah, it's fun to get notes like that, too. I mean, it just makes your day when you get something like that.

Oh, it does, it does. It impacts you. But I think one of the things that's a key, which I think you brought up there, Adam, that we didn't even touch on yet, is really not just during this period of time, but anytime. In order to be successful, you have to get outside of yourself. And if you stay too inside of yourself, things can only grow so much. But real, true success comes when you start thinking about other people who are around you. And that really does allow you to be more creative and innovative.

It does, yes.

Brilliant. Listen, I could speak to you guys ongoingly. This just the beginning of a great conversation. So I will ask you if there's one final thing that you'd love to share, say to that group of people out there that are maybe caught in the throes of this still, you know, they're still white knuckling. This experience of COVID And again, there's such a gamut of where this has interacted and interfered with people's. The status quo of people's lives. So is there something I'm kind of giving you? You hire the talent so often you're the one matching talent. And if there's one thing I think I've heard from event producers and promoters for years is that they want those folks to leave inspired. They want them to be motivated and, yeah, they want them to have takeaw and things they can use in their life. So you guys have the mics. Is there one thing you'd like to say to the group of people who are still kind of maybe caught in the grips of this.

Go first, I'll go first. It's something that I'm telling a lot of people every day, and that is that even today, even in the most challenging of situations, we all have things to be grateful for. And we need to embrace the things that we have, the gifts that we have, the blessings that we have every single day, embrace those and use those and appreciate the life that you have, appreciate the situation that you have. And that is how you can take steps forward. It is when you are caught up in too much of, oh, no, the bad stuff. The bad stuff that you can't grow, you can't move, you can't get better. The only way you can get better is to really appreciate where you are right now.

Wow.

And I would say, you know, because there are still people out there that are holding on hopes and they'll say every day I'm ready for it to go back to normal. And obviously we know that's not going to happen anytime soon. And I just think that the more, again, that you can be grateful and surround yourself with happy people, surround yourself with other people that are happy and agree with you. And agree, yes. But it makes a difference. It feeds off of it, you know, so if you're with a group of people that's talking about, okay, how are we going to, you know, get through this and how are we going to make it better and what can we do? It's totally different than you're. If you're in a room of people that just says, this is so bad. We know. I can't wait for it to be back. This is so bad. And then you're all going to get sucked into it, but it's not going back to normal anytime soon. So the quicker that those people can join a group of happy people and realize that it can be great. There's so many good things happening and we are healthy right now, and you just have to focus on those things. And it's going to be good. I mean, it is. I mean, these virtual events are great. And. And I think that the speakers that wait too long are going to get left in the dust. So. And because, I mean, the ones that have really been going, they're getting booked a ton. So I think that the quicker they make that, you know, that jump over, the better.

Well, I love what you said there because, you know, we've seen in our own office that the happier we are about stuff, the more positive we are, the more our office has become just as active and productive as it was before the pandemic now, because we're excited and we're working on new stuff and we're exchanging ideas, and it doesn't stop. And that is happy people being productive and getting better.

It's contagious.

It is. It is very contagious.

I mean, and that's an interesting word to use in the midst of a pandemic. But you think about it.

That's right.

It's the right kind of thing.

Positivity is contagious, and higher energy is contagious. And I truly believe that one of the things that happens when you speak and you present is that the law of transference is activated. So you're just transferring your own energy to other people. So if your energy is one of enthusiasm and optimism and seeing opportunity, and even in the midst of uncertainty, seeing that there's all this growth, you transfer that feeling to other people. They can't help but not only feel, but feel, feel lifted by it. And that's some of the best work we can do in the world, I think, right now. Just help lift other people.

Our customers need that, too, because our customers are nervous about making the shift, and it's hard for them. So I think the more that we get excited and talk about how, you know, how things are going well, and we're seeing events that are amazing, and we're sending videos of these great events, they're getting excited. So it just is building so that the excitement is a good thing to spread.

Absolutely.

Indeed. So I'm going to finish with a question and a discussion quickly about a waking ritual. It's the thing I ask most everybody at the end of these shows, and that is the first question for you, is, did you guys wake up today?

Yes.

Yes, we did.

Yeah. I love it. Because Angela, she's certain of it, and Rachel was checking in. He's like, well, I haven't had enough. I need another cup of coffee. I'm not certain yet.

Richard's thinking, there's a trick question. Yeah, I'm thinking, I know he is. He's like, the other part of it.

Is, I want to make sure what's this guy up to?

Before I do it.

Well, that's because the word is a. It's. It's a metaphor in so many ways. You know, we realize, as you said earlier about gratitude, that when we went to sleep last night, there was no guarantee. I don't think you correct me here. Did you get a guarantee in writing that you're going to wake up?

No.

No. Neither did I. So my 18 years of being a lawyer, I still haven't figured out how to get a contract put in place that when I put my head on the pill the next morning when I wake up. So when I do wake up each morning have gotten that blessing, I realize there are people in that exact same moment that are taking their very last breath. So it's just not difficult for me now to start my day with gratitude, because I immediately realize this wasn't guaranteed. And then that's the thing about it. Angela, too, is that waking up is like, what would be more important than each day? That we're a little more awake than the day before?

That's good. Yes.

Little bit more conscious. So these are things I think that we can work on. And then the third piece of this waking ritual, waking up and being grateful, is that you can say something out loud. You can. You can actually speak. And now I'm probably getting into that. That little bit of woo area here. But I believe that you speak your life into existence, and I believe in the. In a lot of the things that are Even that are presented through. Through spiritual means that you can look at and say, where's this tangella mind tangible in my life today? Like, the universe was created when these words were spoken. Let there be light. You know, that there. There's a. Speaking something into existence from the beginning of time, at least as far as it's, you know, tracked in the Bible, let's say. And so where is it that we're speaking things into existence in our lives? And where is it that things are just showing up because we haven't. We've just left it to default, like we haven't spoken it. So is there something that you guys say in the morning? Can you. Could you remember this is. I know, maybe difficult what the first words physically out of your mouth were when you woke up this morning?

I do.

She's checking in.

I mean, for me, I wake up and I've got the dog, and I'm like, come on, girls, let's go. Let's go.

Yeah.

So, you know, I've got to get the dogs out first thing in the morning, so that's what I do.

I think the first word I say is always to you. Hi.

Yeah, look, you're here.

Apparently so. Hi.

Hi. That's beautiful. I'm very blessed that.

What about you, Adam? What was your first words today?

They're written on my shirt.

Oh, I like it.

These are the words I say.

So do you wake up every day.

And say that these are the words yes. The TED Talk I gave was all about these four simple words that for the better part of 12 years now, every morning, put my feet on the floor, I feel that one moment where I go, yep, this is special. This is a blessing. And then I say out loud, I say two things. I say, I love my wife and I love my life. And sometimes I do it in a reverse order. Depends, but they just come out. And at first, when I started to say it, I wanted it to be true. And then it's kind of a riddle, because it's a prayer, it's an intention, it's again, I think, speaking a prophecy of things into existence. And. And at first I thought, well, that means if I don't, if I have aggravation or I'm unhappy, because this was, in many ways, in the TED Talk, the thing that had to get dealt with. Because people go, man, if you live my life, if you were putting up with what I was putting up, if you just lost your job, if your kid was killed in a drunk driving accident, you tell me how you would love your life. And those are the real of so many people's lives, my life and everybody's. And so the thing isn't about that saying I love my life means my life is perfect or that I love every instant of my life, but I love my life no matter what. And those. That's. Those are the important words for me anyway. The no matter what.

No matter what is what. That's it. Because it's not. There's many days that it's. It's difficult and, you know, hard, and you just think, oh, my goodness. But you love it no matter what.

Yeah.

No matter what. Well, I can say that I have loved our conversation no matter what.

It's been fun and entertaining.

We have enjoyed it.

So thank you guys for coming back for part two. And everybody, we'd love, as always, to get your comments, to get your feedback. It's like oxygen for us. So please feel free to do that. You can go to AdamMarkelle.com podcast, leave a comment, subscribe and leave your thoughts on. On any of the platforms where you're consuming this, because it's very meaningful for us. And if you've got questions for the shelves as well, we've got full show notes so you can find out more about their agency. If you're a speaker and you want to find out more about the work they're doing, if you're potentially a client, I can tell you that I've worked with these two gentle, wonderful people really professional. And so if you're putting on an event, these are folks that you want to get in touch with and see if they can't help you to get the best talent. Alright, that's it for now. Ciao everybody.

Thanks for listening everyone. We hope you now have the tools and greater insights to navigate your own pivot. Help us inspire others by sharing this episode and leaving your comments over@adammarkel.com podcasts for more tips, strategies and support as you consciously pivot into a new business and lifestyle you love, Join our our Pivot community on facebook@pivotfb.com.