The Art Of Living: Happiness Is An Inside Job With Aaron McHugh

Life happens, and not always the way we expect it to. Every single day, we face change, stress, and uncertainty. What if you could learn to thrive no matter what life throws your way? Resilience expert Adam Barkel and his inspiring guest explore breakthrough strategies to fully embrace change and build the resilience required to become change.

Proof. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Codcast. I'm your host, Adam Markell. I am sitting here feeling very, very blessed, really lucky and grateful to be in this moment. I find lately I'm thinking about gratitude all the time and there's so many reasons to be grateful when you start to search for them. When I start to search for them, I find that there's just no limit. I could pretty much not even not stop for an hour just thinking about all the things that I'm grateful for. But in this moment, as many things as there are for me to be grateful for, I just, I'm in love with this one, this, this moment right now. I hope you feel that way wherever you are, whatever you're doing, that you can just fall in love with this moment. I don't know that we have much more than that, honestly. And I think that's enough. I really do believe that is enough. I have a great privilege to be introduced to and be introducing a new friend this morning. His name is Aaron McHugh and he is a writer, a podcaster, adventurer, an author, best selling author of a book which I love the title of. And we're going to talk about this today. It's called fire your boss, discover work you love without quitting your job. How cool is that? Almost like two things that are irreconcilable. We will unpack that a bit more. He is mastering the art of living a sustainable work life balance, which we're going to find out whether or not work life balance is a myth or it's fact or fiction. And he's constantly working on interweaving the rhythms of play and adventure into his life. So, Aaron, it's such a pleasure to have you on the show today. Welcome.

Yeah, thanks a lot. Appreciate you having me, Adam. It's stoked to be with you.

Way cool. So your bio, I love it because it's short and sweet and succinct. And I also want to ask you what's not written in the bio that I just read that brief introduction. What's one thing that you would love for people to know about you?

I'm a lifelong runner and. And I love French black French press coffee.

Oh, I Don't know anybody else out there going, oh, that's what I need right this second.

Yeah, a run. And followed by a cup of coffee.

Yeah, I think we'll put this thing on pause right now. I'm just gonna hit pause and go get myself a nice. Yeah, I know a place right around the corner here, actually, to get that. Thank you, Aaron. So, look, you and I are, as my wife said, simpatico. We have a lot of things in common. I'd like to just get a sense of your history. I don't want to start right with the book. I want people to get a sense of the person you are, the road that you've traveled, and then we'll dive into these other concepts as well.

Yeah, great. Thanks. Yeah, I think maybe the way I've learned to answer those kinds of questions is like, starting with what I love. And some things that I love are. I really love people, and I always have, and I'm curious about people. My brother will give me a hard time and say, you can actually genuinely have a conversation with any stranger you ever meet, and you mean it. And it's true. I just. I have a curiosity about people, and so that's always been true about me. I grew up in the Sierra Nevada mountains of California. Bishop, California. Not too far away from you. When I was a little kid and my grandfather worked at Disneyland. And so I had these, like, Playland places I lived. You know, like, my real world was in the Sierras, and we didn't have a lot of resources. My dad was a pastor growing up, and so we didn't have a lot of money. But I found, like, the natural world and adventure and this. You know, creeks and rivers and streams and fish and things declined to be really interesting. And then I would go to visit my grandfather at work, and we'd go through the back alleys of Disneyland because he had this, like, Golden Pass. And he started working there the year after the park opened in 1956. And so, like, to me, work was like a place you're supposed to really be stoked about and enjoy what you're doing in life. And so I think those are things that just really, in early formative years, formed who I've become. And then over the years. So I'm a dad. I have three kids. I've been married to the same woman that I still love and enjoy for 27 years. And that's not free and hasn't been easy. And there's been lots of highs and lows. And then in my work and Career. What I've always loved is the pursuit of ideas. Of this I found my way into sales early on in my career and I was selling like 60 second radio commercials back to liquor stores and bars in my first beginning. But hey, it was like a commission job and it was like you could make more money. And it came with health insurance. And so I was like, yeah, I'll give it a try. And so I think that what I've just found is that I was never. And I've never even yet today, knocking on the door of 49, I've never had like a linear path of a five year plan. Oh, this is what I'm going to do and achieve in five years. Or I never had like some wow pedigree. I didn't go to mit. I wasn't valedictorian. I barely graduated high school because I was out in the parking lot with my buddies skipping class. But I found like, there's a certain way to show up to your life irregardless of circumstance. And in my beginnings we had lots of bumps in the road and unfortunate events. And that's continued throughout a lot of my adult life. But I've just found that your word of resilience and pivot really stand out to me. So I've just discovered like, there is an art of living. There's a way of living irregardless of what our life circumstances are. And the people that I admire most are the ones that show up with some zeal and some gusto, some guts and an open heart, as you say.

Yeah, wow, Aaron, I'd love to dive into the art of living. I think there's a. I remember reading in an old metaphysical book by Emmett Fox this term of the art of successful living. And I'd love to get your take on what that art is or what components, let's say there are involved in artful living.

Yeah, I'll start with. I was in Hawaii at a friend of mine's home. And for a living he developed lava rock real estate. And they turned lava rock flow into a billion dollars worth of real estate for guys with last names like Dell and Schwab. And in his bathroom, so I found him like a really cool cat anyway, but in his bathroom, etched in the sink in the kind of whatever it was, marble or granite or whatever was this little pattern. And then they had a quote above the sink that was about the art of living. And basically the essence is, and I'll send you the quote, I won't do it justice verbatim. But effectively it's like you be the judge. When is the master of the art of living at work? When is he at play? When is he worshiping, when is he efforting? When is he loving? And it's like these kind of, I call them from tos. And what I learned, and this is probably going on 15 years ago, is I learned that reflecting on my own life, having a couple weeks in Hawaii to get away and extract myself from my normal routines, my normal ways of being was I really lived in compartments. You know, this compartment was work, this compartment was play, this compartment was call my wife. You know, this part was friends. And so I really had worked to like a really well organized IKEA closet, have a container and a label for everything. And when I was done with it, I would put it back on the shelf, seal it tight, and then move on to the next container. And what I found was it really was an attempt and a grasp at control. Yeah, it turns out I wasn't very good at it. But I had lived with the illusion that if I can get ahead, if I can just get the next thing done or achieve the next conquest or earn certain amount of money or race this race, climb this mountain, achieve this relational 27 mile year marker with my wife, well, then I'll equal happy, then I'll equal content, then I'll equal successful. And what I've learned is this art of living, this mastery of in the dailies, in the moment, like you mentioned, is what would it look like for me to show up open hearted wholeheartedly and actually pursue an integrated life where I don't have any containers. It's just all one beautiful big mess concoction creation where it's just a light and easy way of living versus a tight gripping of control and insisting on outcomes.

Yeah, this is such an interesting thing that, that we stumbled upon here. And of course I don't, I never believe in any accident. So I think we've been led to it. We stumble, but we are, we're led at the same time. Control is. Control is an interesting topic. I've known a few control freaks in my life and I sort of see a, I see a recovering control freak in the morning when I look in the mirror. So. And I've known a lot of successful people that I would also say are highly controlling people. And so I guess the question I want to put out there to the folks that are listening this questioning perhaps whether they fall into that category themselves or whether maybe they haven't been, as you said, successful, quote, unquote because they aren't as controlling as others around them have been. So I want to get a sense of that from you. Do you think that control is a feature that contributes to success? And perhaps maybe it's a compound question that even if it does, does it ultimately rob a person of feeling good about their success even after they've achieved it?

Yeah, that's a great question. Wow. Does success rob us of feeling good about it? Yeah. So like you, Adam, I am. I don't know that I'd go as far as call myself a control freak, but I have had issues with control. And what I've learned is that part of the thing I've been, the journey I've been on the last decade or so is getting really curious about my internal world, my inner life, and looking at that as information about my external life. And what I mean by that is like there's the things I do in the world. And oftentimes with leadership teams who I work with, we talk about using the metaphor of an iceberg, the tip of the iceberg you can see because it sticks out of the water. And that's where we can see the observables, the behavior, the house, the cars, the whatever LinkedIn says. And then below the waterline is the 90% you can't see. We call them like the hidden depths. So I've really been spending a lot more time these last years really getting curious about the hidden depths and then trying to see a more whole picture of myself, of what are my motives, why do I do what I do. So control as an example, why do I want to grip onto things? And what I really realized is it was attempt to minimize pain is for me like growing up as a kid. My parents had split when I was early on and I was the oldest of three and I could live on food stamps like we did as a kid or. And I could be in the free lunch line or I could say I'm going to avoid that pain by controlling an outcome which is like, you know, it's kind of. My brother calls it the thousand yard stare. Like someone on a race course, you can just see somebody has a look in their eye and they are headed somewhere. Well, that was me early in my career. Now I wanted to do it in a way that didn't leave a lot of casualties in wake behind me because I care about people. Yes, But I was happily willing to make myself a casualty. Like unknowingly, but just the what I would push myself through. I refused to give myself a break. And to rest. And so you talk about resilience. Well, a big part of that I've learned now is like, you can't. I have limitations. I didn't do that. I didn't like it. I still wrestle with the fact that I have limitations. I like the old way of.

Yeah, doesn't that suck, by the way?

Right.

I don't want any limitations.

I just want to be like a robot, you know, I don't, because that's not wholehearted, but there was a time where I am an endurance athlete. So there in San Diego where you are, you see a lot of triathletes training along the coast. So I was one of them. And on a race course, I would tell myself over and over as I would pass someone or even as I would get past, that I suffer better than you. That was my internal mantra. And it was like, that was my programming. My daily program is I'm really good at suffering. And so what? That didn't ever equate for or.

Or enduring suffering.

Yeah, yeah. And enduring suffering. I can take it, like, I can go further. But the part that was unkind to myself, my body, my mind, my soul, my relationships, was that actually wasn't. Yes, it's true about me. And at what cost? So below my iceberg. A lot of the reasons I would do those things was because I was afraid of being weak. I was afraid of asking for help. I was afraid of no help ever coming. And so what I've learned is that each of us are just fascinating creatures, and we have really great reasons why we do what we do. And that above the waterline picture is just only a small bit. And so in order to be on this path of, like, mastering the art of living, it means I have to be a lot more clear and conscious in my view of what's really going on here and why am I doing these things and just making sure I'm clear about it. It still may be that I tell myself a story of suffering, but that it's clear. It's not like autopilot. My life's not happening to me. You know, I'm actually creating. Co. Creating the life that I'm living intentionally.

It's a very different approach. And being that much more aware, as he said, of both what's above and below that water line.

Yes.

Visible and invisible. Yeah. Is such a finer distinction. It really is simpler, I suppose, to not be concerned with what's below the waterline, what's invisible. There are enough hours of the day or enough ways that we can spend focused on what's above the water that people can see, that others can see, that we never have to really spend a whole lot of time. Time on what? On what's going on below. I mean, I think people live their entire lives in that way and maybe only have sort of a glimpse of what that. What that other. That lost opportunity is at the point when they're making their transition. So, I mean, I don't know that for certain. Obviously, I haven't been there myself. But I certainly know that what you said resonates with me. Spent a good chunk of my adult life and my professional life mostly focused on how to build that. That structure and that presence above. Above the waterline that the world will validate and approve of and reward and pay and all those things. And what's below is so much deeper. It's so much more truthful. Do you think? Yes, absolutely.

Yeah. And I'd call it an honest life. Like, I have a deep faith and believe that God's life is real. And so for me, there's this great quote from this guy, Parker Palmer, that I love, and he talks about being, like, grounded and fierce in reality. Like, wow, fierce with reality. What does that mean? That means it's truthful. That means above the waterline, below, like, all of it is, like, truthful, integrated, whole, no compartments. And I think what's oftentimes just scary for me, for others, is that it feels like, wow, if I take a peek, if I open and crack that lid to see what's actually in there. How about I'll just spend time on the above? So we have some really dear friends that come to mind. And, yeah, they just move from vacation to vacation, new home to new home, job to job. And I know that's the part you can see on LinkedIn, and the part that's below is just almost tragic.

In what sense?

Yeah, I mean, like, just broken relationships. And they're lovely, beautiful people. But like an un. I'd say a new willingness, as I say that, a developing willingness to take a look at what else is going on down there. It's actually driving why we do what we do. And that is a courageous and brave act, like Brene Brown calls it. So much of it is we engineer smallness above the waterline.

Wow.

I don't want to live in smallness. Like your new book, like, how to live, like in abundance and love. Like a life you actually love. Like, when you stare at the mirror and look back at yourself, you love in earnest. Not just the one that gets up on some social media feed about how great it is. I've been in some really wonderful, exotic places and I had a buddy of mine tell me again that billionaire developer. And he was saying, like, there are some amazing people who come to this place that are soulfully dying. They're miserable. This is just another attempt at distraction from what's below. So all that for me is just again, back to the what does it look like to approach our life with curiosity and to be integrated? And what does it look like to do the hard work of prioritizing our inner work as well as our outer work so that. Back to your question. So we can actually enjoy it. So the upside is freedom, joy, fun, intimacy, connection. Like adventure. Like that was what I was after in the first place. It's just, you know, I didn't mention I went through a burnout a number of years ago and our middle child passed away and died. And I had my other. Our son was in a recovery center for drugs and alcohol. So none of this is theory for me.

It's to me, an unimaginable loss, the loss of a child.

Yeah, it is.

Whole. Whole other realm. Yeah. Of pain. I really want. I don't know why I want to ask you this question. I'm just going to ask it, though. What, what scares you today, Aaron? What's. What's something.

Yeah, great question. We're. We're on the eve of our daughter's passing here. At the end of this month, it'll be 10 years. And I think when I feel, I know when I feel afraid or something I feel afraid of at times is that I'm going to give up. Like, not like give up in life or like in my life or anything like that, but just like there's a zeal and a drive and a passion about me for really living life with gusto, meaning and purpose. And I think when I feel sad, when I feel the weight of grief, when I feel worried about the state of the world, I have moments of like, oh my gosh, I can't imagine spending 10 or 20 or 30 or 40 years if I don't have that through line fire in my belly to keep going. So I don't. I've not experienced long bouts of that happening, but I've had a couple when I burned out.

And do you have a way, a way out? I mean, because I think what you're describing can be. Can be analogized in so many ways. I think a lot of people feel that way. I know in this moment that the Reason I asked you that was because I truly feel that it's a. It's a hidden thing. It's below. It's below the waterline.

Absolutely.

So many of us that we feel that we. We don't have the luxury to be that real with other. With the world.

Yeah.

I'm saying we don't ever share it with people that are close to us or in any circumstance. I think people sometimes do. And thanks in part to folks like Brene Brown who've made it more. More. We're more aware, I think it. We're. We feel more. It's more permissible today. Yeah. Yeah.

Normalized and safe. Right.

For sure. And yet to. To my knowledge and experience, it's still something that people keep very much themselves.

Absolutely.

And is way below that waterline. So I so appreciate that you shared that. I. I think it's a great way to enter this conversation of what. What do we. What are we doing on a. On a regular ritual basis even?

Yeah, absolutely.

To pull ourselves out of the. Out of that cave or that darker, darker place or. You said, you know, from below the waterline.

Yeah, I love the question because I'm super passionate and I noticed from your work you are as well about just practices, daily practices, rituals, habits. And a couple things that I've really found as a rescue for me is a buddy of mine I called the beginning of pandemic, and he had been in prison for 13 months for white collar IRS violation stuff back in the day, and uber successful above the waterline, planes and houses and et cetera. Really amazing dude and a great friend and mentor. And so I just asked him, I was like, hey, what. What do you. What do you think about this? We were on house. What do you stay at home? Orders. And he said, you know, actually, basically, I learned to build ritual into my day to give me some semblance of normalcy.

Yeah.

So he said when I was in prison. So I'm listening. Like, when I'm in prison. Okay, I'm listening. And this is someone I admire. We had game time. Every day he goes, I read my Bible the same time every day. I wrote letters to home. Every day I went for a walk. And so he had this, like, ritual. And what I learned since this work of pandemic is how few of us, me included, have what I would call an everyday muscle that we use. So my son now is in recovery, almost six years clean and sober. My wife did the math on his total number of days he's been sober. It was like over 2000. And I stared at that along with my friend's advice, and I'm like, what? Have I ever done anything for 2000 days? I don't even brush my teeth every single day. So wow, can you imagine? Like, every single day. So I'm a meditator. I'm a. I pray. But even in that, I noticed giving myself free passes, like, well, I won't do it today. So fast forward. I started running as a mini small experiment. I'm not sure if you know the work of James Clear on atomic habits.

I do. I've recommended his book on the show before.

Okay, great. So I'll echo your recommendation. And I chose as a runner, what if I ran every single day a minimum of a mile? And he talks about making it so small you can't fail. So a mile for me is so small, I can't fail. I'm 307 days today, I think in a row, rain and shine, snow, sleet, whatever it may be. So what I've learned to answer your question is I really believe that sometimes it's important to just put action first and evaluation later. So just put something small into action. Shut up. Don't ask too many questions. Just do it. And then think about it, evaluate it later. So in the recovery world, one of the recommendations they make is go to six. Like a recovery community, I can't mention their name, but a predominant one you would recognize is go to six of them in a row and then evaluate if you like it or not.

Right.

30 meetings in a row for 30 days, and then decide if it helped you or not. So I think that's something that we lack as a culture is everything's under constant evaluation of how do I feel about it, how do I feel today, what do I want to do? And I think that actually what we've done is we've shortcut some of the rebar that gives our life some structure and just through lines that we just stop talking about and just do as a result. Back to your question. How do I get out of the cave sometimes when I just go run a mile? Shut up and don't think about it. I feel a lot better afterwards.

Yes. And for me, it's getting in the pool or it's getting in the ocean. And it's the same thing. The same thing in that the ritual is something substantial that can be counted on. Like, I know I can count on my rituals to be a rescue part of. When I speak with organizations and do keynote work for companies, I use this analogy of the rescue in fact, they tell the first story I tell when, during my TED talk and then in many, many subsequent talks is the story, this story of a rescue that went bad when I was a lifeguard at a beach when I was 19 years old. So this idea that rituals are in fact a buoy, that they are a rescue tool, is not a small thing in my world. It hasn't been. And so to hear you say that really, really drops in. And I do, I love a lot of what, what is conveyed in, in James Clear's book, Atomic Habits, because we have to make things change. Change can be either easier, difficult. I mean, just like almost anything, you know, you can make anything as easy or as difficult as you like.

Yeah.

I don't care what, what it is.

Yeah.

And it's a. I think it's part of that art of living successfully is that we look for ways, create ways to make things easy. And I don't mean easy in the shortcut. Like when I was 25, that would have meant taking shortcuts.

Yes.

It would have meant, you know, cutting corners or whatever. It means, you know, cheating, lying, whatever. Today it means what we're talking about, which is you make things, you make it easy on your soul. Yeah, it's not easy on your soul to cheat, to lie to, to hurt other people, to roll over, barrel over other people in the pursuit of your success is not easy on the soul. You may achieve something in the process. You may end up with that, you know, the ring of the house car or whatever. But the price is your soul. And that's not making it easy for yourself. So really fascinating. I love, in the remaining time that we've got together, Aaron, I could talk to you for I think a long, long time. Love this conversation is the book. And your launching that book right around the time that Covid hits. What great timing, right?

Yeah. Right. Speaking of resilience, it's like, what, are you kidding me?

I mean, we just. So our book, this new book, the I Love My Life Challenge, which you were referring to earlier, which is a. An interactive 28 day workbook for the purposes. We're talking about how you create rituals day by day, one day after another, one, you know, sort of one foot in front of the other. And we had that idea shortly after Covid started and we knew that we wanted to put this concept out into the world and make something tangible people could use. You had the idea for your book before COVID hit and then had to launch it in the midst of a pandemic. So I'D love to get a sense of what the book is about and what that journey has been like for you. Because launching a book on a good day is as much of a pain in the ass as, I think, almost anything I've ever experienced in business. So on a pandemic day, I'm not sure. I'm not sure what that would be like.

Yeah. Stories from the front line, I guess. Yeah. So the book, like, you mentioned, fire your boss.

Great cover, Great cover.

Thank you.

So, want to see this on YouTube? You can check that out.

Just look. Yeah, yeah. Super fun. I think what I've learned about myself real quick is that I'm a marinator. And like. So, for instance, I'll read the same book two times, five times, eight times. I'll watch the same movie over and over. And what I realize it comes down to is I really love, like, getting it underneath my skin, like. Yes, exactly. Dog eared. Yeah. The Untethered Soul. Right on.

I'm just for people listening this. I'm holding up a copy of an old book by Michael Singer called the Untethered Soul, which I've read. I've read this book three or four times.

And, you know, yeah, dog eared marked up. See, that's my non.

You name it.

Yeah, for me, it's like, I view books like friends that I really like, and not all of them are that way. So I'll know, you know, two or three, four chapters in, if this is a friend I want to hang with and spend some time with or if maybe I'll put it in the Come back to later or. No, this isn't for me, for the season. So for me, this book is really about the integration of the inner and outer life and in the context of work. But the only reason it's in the context of work is that was the frontier in which I was exploring and that was the classroom in which I was participating so that I could become more acquainted with who I am fully and how I want to show up in the world. So I find. So one of the things that, to me is like, just painful is repeatedly Gallup does a annual survey on employee engagement. Yes, it's referred to a lot. But the bottom line is one third of people who go to work every day in the US Are engaged. Two thirds are not. And what that two thirds that are not means that you just go and you punch a clock. And then a third of those are actually actively, like, disengaged. Like, not. And to me, I view that as a, like, crime of humanity. It's not okay. And on my watch, with my life, I am going to make. I'm going to take a swing. And whether that's like the Berlin Wall and we're trying to get some cracks in the concrete, I don't care what I got to do. I am swinging at that wall because it's not okay. We as humans are made for more and phoning it in before you even walk in the front door, sitting in the parking lot, or rolled into zoom. That apathy and resignation are not okay ways to spend our life. So for me, I've spent my career in business sales, commercial innovation, software startups. As a senior executive, global software company rang the opening day trading bell London Stock Exchange. Like, I've gotten to experience a lot of that stuff. Well, I also got to experience what it was like in commercial sales to be or in consulting in different companies all over the planet. Well, you stare like you and I eyeball to eyeball, and you see if the light's on and anybody's at home or if it's a pretty dull flicker. And you kind of. I got curious, like, why Back to getting, like, what is going on here? This is not okay. So my book is really about the journey of. If you've ever, you know, the hero's journey, Adam. Do you know that?

Absolutely.

Yeah. So this idea of, like, in order to. Luke Skywalker wants to defeat Darth Vader. Well, he has to go on an inner journey to become a Jedi before he can actually go up against Darth Vader. Well, this idea repeatedly over and over about stories about how do you become the kind of person who could move from fear to freedom.

Isn't that Thomas? It's not. Thomas Malone.

Joseph Campbell.

Joseph Campbell.

Thank you, Joseph Campbell. So I use that arc and structure across my book of how do you become the person to move from fear to freedom, from compartmentalized to wholehearted, from rule follower to heretic. And I really just kind of walk through a series of. I call them core ideas. And how do you become the person who can thrive in any and all situations you find yourself in your career? So that's why it's the important subtext subtitle is discovering work you love without quitting your job. And I think so often with a title like fire your boss, people assume that it's an entrepreneurial. Oh, sweet. I can finally be on my own.

Yes.

And the case I make in the book, Adam, is start where you are, wherever you are. Entrepreneur, intrapreneur employee, wherever you are. I want you. And I will show you how to start a revolution at an inner journey level that will then take shape externally. So if you go off to be an entrepreneur, well, I can show you how to be, have greater impact in that. And so I kind of walk through these stories of my own career liberation.

And ultimately it's to get the light to stop flickering and.

Yeah. So in the end it's about being free. So to me, how do you be fully engaged? How do you live with joy and freedom? How do you have a life that I love? Happiness is an inside job.

I'm going to put a question to you that's not an easy one, but I wouldn't ask it if I didn't think you were totally up for it. And I be very frank, I wouldn't ask this of every, of every guest either. So if you could put the through line, because you use that word several times and that's a big word for us in terms of part of our company's work today is in training people in their communications, including getting on TED stages and sharing messages and high impact platforms. And that through line or the through line of your book. Could you summarize it in one sentence? I think people would love to hear that.

Yeah. Happiness is an inside job and agency of your life and your career starts with you. No one's going to give you permission.

Yeah. So anybody that's feeling disengaged at work, like people right now working in the way that we are working, some people are leaning in to it, feeling great about, they can be home, they can see their kids for dinner. Yes. They're on Zoom at all hours and, but they don't have to wear pants.

Reason.

Right. We've had some weird, weird stories, things going on on Zoom calls. But, but right now, to the person who is not feeling great about their work situation, and I use my own kids as an example because we have four and two that are still in college and two that are out. But the two that are in college have had internships and the two that are out have been working in jobs as for startups and some more mature companies over the last couple years. And I've just seen that they've gotten, they've become disillusioned with the companies they've worked for after a period of time, could be a year, could be 18 months. I think with Millennials, they on average are switching jobs about every 18 months. And so for somebody whose light is flickering in terms of their passion, their commitment, their engagement with that employer, what's in this book for them.

Yeah, great question. I think the biggest aha for most people when they read my book and engage with these ideas is back to tiny atomic habits and tiny steps with James Clear. There's a lot of on ramps and handholds for small things that you can do. The thing I'll link that to is most of us cannot answer the question what do I want? What do I desire? What do I need? What do I value? Most of us can say what I don't like. Most of us can say what bothers me. The reason I'm not engaged is because. And it's usually a statement of associated blame and responsibility of someone else. Yes, we very often deflect and defer any response. Personal responsibility ourself on. Are you serious? Is my engagement dependent on someone else's response environment that you create for me, compensation, et cetera, like. Well, those are important things. But if engagement is that fragile that we've actually outsourced our happiness and contentment and engagement to other people, well, then that will go with you to your next job too. And that was a pattern I found in my own career.

Right.

But if I can put a stake in the ground, wherever I am today, begin to take ownership over my engagement, my passion, my swing for the fence ness, then I can take that wherever I go. And the irony is, so today I work for one of the most premier global consulting firms on the planet. And it didn't happen because I was sticking around waiting for someone to engage me. It turns out that once I decided, you know what, I'm swinging for the fence, I'm going to bring my A game irregardless and independent of others response. Because then all of a sudden you're in an architecting, in a creating mode, you're in a causation mode, you're in an influence mode. Well, when you're in a reactive mode, living in that pit of despair, that's where most people stay. And I think that the challenge with this disengagement dialogue is it's always centered around what our employers can do for us versus what must we do for ourselves first.

Right? It's again, back to that above the waterline or below it. And trying to control what's above the waterline is probably a great definition for insanity because you have almost no control. This is the great irony and why God has a great sense of humor because everybody's trying to control their outer circumstances, not realizing that the only thing we have any measure of control over is what is below the Waterline.

Absolutely. And Adam, one link I'll add to that in close with you is that there is a distinction between control and influence. We may not be able to control our externals. Agreed. Like I'm a exhibit A of that, poster child of that. And we can have tremendous influence. We can influence. Well, influence doesn't equal control. But when we begin to own the distinction between influence and control, then I think that's another form of way we're liberated. We're like, hey, I'm going to show up and do this because it's good, I value it, it's important to me and it may have influence over other people. Which that's again back to how do you start a revolution is everyday people like me and you decide we envision a world that's better than the one.

That we have and it doesn't matter what work you're doing or what job you're in, on some level you can choose to be unconditionally happy in that work or in that situation. And I know that sounds incredibly odd because there are some, you know, shitty, shitty situations and poor paying jobs and awful bosses and you know, all of that is true. And I'm not for one second to be clear, suggesting anybody should tolerate anything that they don't wish to tolerate. But what I think you pointed out earlier without saying these exact words is that the response is typically blame, justify or complain. And so when that's how we're spending our time and our precious life energy, it's no wonder there's no energy to light the bulb.

Absolutely. Bulb is flickering, brother.

Well, there you go. So I've loved this conversation, loved it. Aaron and I would highly recommend at this point that people go out and check out fire your boss, discover work you you love without quitting your job. I know there'll be show notes. You can go to aaron mchugh.com you can find out more about his work as a speaker and as an author thought leader. Aaron, it's been a pleasure to have you on the show today. I really thank you for that. As we depart, I will remind all of us as it's written on my shirt here and it is the topic that is so much on our hearts now and has been for a while, how it is that we can in fact just decide to love our lives. Love our lives, our lives. Not love, be in love with someone else's life or with someone else's possessions or their success, but rather simply love ours from this, in this very moment, regardless of it not being it not being everything that we think we want it to be or that we expect it to be. It's just so possible, as you were pointing out, that we can be more unconditional. And that's something ironically or maybe just paradoxically, that we have control over. We get to choose that right now. So I am fully in love with this moment and with my life in this moment. I hope it's been a great conversation for you too, Aaron, and everybody that's listening and watching this that you've enjoyed it thoroughly. We of course would love to hear from you, get your comments. You can leave a comment@adammarkelle.com podcast if you love the episode, subscribe. Tell a friend we love the fact that the community is growing as it has and look forward to connecting again soon. For now, I'll just say ciao everyone. And thank you again, Aaron.

Yeah, thanks brother. Bless you.

Thanks for listening everyone. We hope you now have even more tools and greater insights to build resilience and become change proof. Help us inspire others by sharing this episode and leaving your comments over@adammarkelle.com podcast for more resilience tips and strategies, including support for building change proof teams, visit adammarkel. Com becomechangeproof.