Getting Employee Experience Right w/ Camilla Scholten, COO @ CustomerGauge

We're pioneering. We're really teaching the ropes to a world that is not used to looking after staff, not looking after customers. It's seen as a service or as a cost. So we've really got to educate why this is important and how that actually gives you benefits. Clear roi. So education and training, we kind of just did it for free.

Hi, guys, and welcome back to another episode of the Account Experience podcast. Today we're joined by our very own co founder and coo, Camilla Scholten. In this talk, we dove deep into employee experience. Camilla walked us through how she adapted our employee experience program for Covid and how investing in education is the future of the Gagee experience. There are a ton of strategic and tactical nuggets in this one. You won't want to miss it.

Let's dive right in. Hello, everyone, and welcome back to another episode. I am here as always, with my partner in crime, Kerry T. Self. Say hello, Kerry.

Hello, everyone.

And today, guys, you're in for a treat. We are joined by none other than our champion of culture, the co founder and chief operating officer of Customer Gauge, Camilla Scholten. Say hello, Camilla.

Hello.

We're glad you're here. We've been wanting to do this for a while. So we had Adam, I think, a couple of weeks ago, and now we have Camilla, the co founder. So this really exciting for us. Today, we wanted to really break into this topic that I think you've championed extremely well at Customer Gauge, which is employee experience. And I think the reason why we really want to break this down is because I think there's a lot of confusion out there. People don't really know what to do or what employee experience even means. And I think that just being here for five years at Customer Gauge, but also seeing how you guys have managed the COVID situation for a global office, I think you have a lot to really add on this topic. So we wanted to get you in this thing and talk about that. So, Camilla, what was it that made employee experience really jump out at you during COVID Obviously, there's a lot of change happening, but how did you guys start to address this type of thing within an organization?

I think it's because we kind of like, had something in place already about communicating on a quarterly basis with our members of staff, but suddenly everybody was working from home, and it was, you know, we were, I think, trying to redefine, how do we then stay close? I don't think I actually wrote an article, but I don't think I estimated it to be for this long. But I thought, you know, I thought first three weeks and then I accepted it was going to probably be two months. But I thought in that time how do we stay connected? Because I think that it's, it's kind of like what makes us very efficient and nimble as an organization is the fact that we have very short lines, not a very steep hierarchy. So we thought about actually a lot of other ways to stay engaged. So we had, I thought we can do something much more official like you know, a weekly business update. And then I realized culture sometimes actually needs, well, it needs that, it needs to know how the business is doing, but it also needs, you know, a way to connect, having fun. And partly what just makes us is I think the fact that we have this fierce competition with each other. So we had this great. Somebody came up with this idea to do like quizzes and also I think we thought about how do we get some feedback on how people really are doing. And that's not so easy to do when it's a non anonymous feedback stream. So we thought, well, we're just going to use our surveying tool, our feedback loop tool to do this on a more frequent basis. So we started to really offer all of our gauges the opportunity to give us some feedback every week on how they were doing, how they were coping, how they were handling things. We've been doing this for a longer time and we actually had a very nice process of closing the loop where we, we capture the feedback and then we let teams in subsets talk with each other. Not me saying, okay, this is what you said to us, this is what we're going to do. But come up with some good suggestions that are realistic, that are easy to execute on and kind of like also fair. I want four times my salary realistic, fair. And that's been working really well. So we did that. And we did that actually on a weekly basis. We got feedback, we tried to do follow ups on it, share it as much as possible. And how I did it, I think it was just all the things that we already did, we just amplified it or ramped it up a bit. And I think we just were good at communicating that early on. So we didn't take weeks to get there, which I think was, was quite great. And these things stuck actually without much of my contribution. I think everybody else is far more deserving of credit there.

So I'm glad you said that. We already kind of did it. There was a really good program in place. Thanks to you and thanks to Kerry for getting this thing up and running. But we had that monthly feedback coming in. We would break into groups, prioritize that, kick it back to the management team, close that loop, and communicate. So, Kerry, quick question for you. What was the initial feedback when we made that transition from your monthly cadence to the weekly cadence on those surveys?

I think it's ironic. We take what we do for business and we turn it internally, and we did it for our employees. What we always preach about, what we talk about. Anyone that's listening to the podcast knows, you know, get that feedback, stay in touch, do something, take action with that. So I think. I think it wasn't a shock when we asked them to move from a quarterly survey to a weekly one. Actually, I think it was almost a reassurance. I think people felt like it was a big, warm hug that you couldn't give somebody anymore in the office. We were reaching out to them weekly and saying, look, just tell us anything. We care. We're here. And what I really give Camille a lot of credit on was how do you take that data and turn it around quickly? How do you respond to it, even if it's. I don't have an answer for that, but I heard you. This is what we're working on. This is what it looks like. And I think, you know, like we talked about in our morning trivias, Camilla would say, look, we got this feedback a couple days ago, and let me speak to that really quickly. Like, we would stop everything and have that moment. And maybe I'm going too far here to say this, but almost like we're closer now than we were before going into this. I think it's almost forced us to not take for granted those people you see in the office every day. Like, we value that 15, 20 minutes every morning now, and we really do pay attention and we listen. So I think the reaction at the beginning to answer the question was we were all worried. We didn't know. None of us knew what was going to happen. And I think it really calmed us and it made us feel like we're connected. And that was a pretty powerful thing going into the unknown.

Yeah. And I think also, to be honest, a lot of people actually enjoyed that communicating, but there are some that don't always join, so it's not so forced. But there is just a very sort of large majority that is very consistent. And then there is a lot of other. And we saw the same with engagement in response rates. Right. So we didn't, I think, ever hit 100% responses. It's anonymous. So you know, I could have answered that survey 20 times, and we could have gotten to, like, more. More numbers than we actually employ. But. But we didn't ever. So. So it's not that everybody did it or used it or felt like using it and. But it was sort of, like, popular enough for us to continue it as well. I think maybe we would have reacted differently if nobody would have wanted to join these daily meetings. But I agree, Kerry. It seems that everybody really feels the same way about it, and it's not really hyped or marketed or prepared. Actually, it's not. It's very. In the now, very unprepared. And even the feedback, some of it I found really hard to take because we were trying to, you know, keep, you know, the focus of keeping everybody employed. And. And then you get feedback, like. But other companies are sending around vitamin packages. Why aren't we, you know, it's like. But that actually keeps you incredibly grounded because, you know that, you know, because I might think, oh, I'm doing such a wonderful thing and everybody loves me. No, they don't. You know, not always. And that, I think, is a very good piece of feedback for leadership. And on the other hand, by addressing it, it keeps everybody on the. On the workforce also grounded because they hear what other people are thinking. And if you said it, you suddenly get feedback from your peers without being honest that it was you. Like, this is just not right. That also grounds you. Right. So I think it's a very good exercise of keeping all components of an organization, because we're all equally important, and we all need each other. We all keep real.

I did want to throw something in real quick, though. Camille. I know that we never got 100% participation, but it was pretty high. As someone who's done this before in the past, our numbers weekly were significantly close to the top of being 100%. And we saw bigger spikes when Camila put out a message, and when she did that, we saw spikes. I'm saying this because I think it's important for listeners to know that if you really want an effective program and you're going to be surveying, you gotta do something with it. And Mila's feedback and her communication really drew those people in. And look, I'll let you in on a little secret. We just put out our quarterly survey, first time ever, 100% complete.

Yeah, that's actually amazing. I don't know if you knew that, Ian, but it's true. We got 100%. I was, like, blown away by that.

That's A great accomplishment.

Yeah. I think that is sticking with something. I think that is. Yeah.

But I think that's. That's worth mentioning, guys, is like the. You can't be afraid of that feedback. And Carrie and I have talked about this, but a lot of companies we talk to, they're deathly afraid of getting that first round of feedback. And I feel like getting it from your employees is even sometimes tougher. To your point, Camilla, like, it's got to be really tough because this is your baby. You're the co founder, you're the chief operating officer. This feedback, like, sometimes if they say, you know, we could do this better, it's like. It's like saying about your child, which I can't imagine. It's difficult. So not to pat ourselves on the back too much. But I just. I do want to really encourage anybody else out there that is going through this process of employee experience and trying to work their way through it. Camilla's feedback is really solid, which is start, get the feedback. Don't be afraid of it. Shoot for 100%. Because at the end of the day, getting that line of communication with your employees is really what we're trying to do here. Right. I mean, Carrie, your point about Camilla responding back to the employees is the best part. It really is. Because you've said it before, Camilla, that there's some crazy requests, like the different things that employees honestly want. The operating officer. Right. You put the COO hat on, and there's certain things you just know are not cost feasible at this point in time.

Or not smart. Yeah, they might be doable, but they're not smart.

Yeah, but you have a really great way of addressing that. And it's like, you know what? This is a good idea. We're not quite there yet. We're really focused on just, you know, doing this over here. Let's just put it in the idea pile and we'll get back to it when we can. And I think that people respect you for addressing it instead of just honestly giving the feedback and then just.

I think that is very true. I think actually I underestimated that myself, because I think I'm not. It's very human. You don't want to go back with. In a board meeting, you don't want to go back with the same old news. You always want to come up with something new. Right. If you don't have greater sales revenue numbers, you want to have a better vision with your members of your team. You want to be able to say, we've done this We've done this, we're going to be doing that because that is the easiest way to look great, to look good. Like, you know, I'm in charge, I'm doing things, I'm changing your life for the better. That's what we really want. I think at least that's what I want, but that's not the reality. And even more so, you get confronted through all the media with companies that did something phenomenal, sought the news. You know, like you get four day work weeks. Yeah. You know, you pay 20% of your salary for it. They don't tell you that, but, you know, but people read them, they go, I want that. So you get confronted with all kinds of difficult things. But I agree with you. I think still just addressing it and saying, look, we're looking at this, but we cannot do this. This is still the course for us. We had no real news other than, we're going to keep you employed. That's going to be our commitment to you. We're going to try and keep you employed. That is actually not a very. After three weeks, everybody's used to that. They're like, yeah, that's not exciting. Where are my vitamin pills? Where is my home office that I can't, you know, so. But yeah, it is. It is that mess. It's better to address it and to respond and to give updates on where you are going than not doing anything, not. Not responding and not interacting.

Yeah. It was really interesting to see, at least in the US When Covid first hit, there's this wave of. I hate to say it, but companies that were laying off a bunch of employees, and we saw it in our EMPS numbers, right, where everybody was really, I don't want to say panicked, but they were worried about this and worried about that and if they're going to still have a job. And I think you're dead on when you say the point of that whole exercise was to make sure that everybody keeps their job. And that was always communicated very clearly to everybody in the organization. And I think once that initial, you know, anxiety subsided, they started asking for vitamin packs and all that stuff.

But that's a bit mean. The person who gave that feedback is probably going to listen to this podcast and going to go, oh, I wish I. No. But I also think it is not necessarily always easy because we had some people that just joined and they didn't really know us. And so for them, it probably sounded like a nice story. And so partly what you do is you try to address big issues. You're trying to build trust with people that don't know you very well. You're also trying to just make sure that everybody still feels heard and that they know that they're not going to get something, but that they might get something else. I guess the key point is just that sometimes you just don't have great news. You don't have great progress, but it's still better to be visible and communicate. I think that's what I learned. I really learned that from this. I learned it through that feedback loop of seeing how the responses went up every time I wrote something. Even though I was critical of what I was writing and thinking. I wish I could do more. And I couldn't. So I wasn't going to say that because I kind of like value my integrity. But I think still that worked. And that took me by surprise a little bit. Like everybody showing up for our morning calls, it took me by surprise. It took me by surprise that everybody loved ping pong. So there are so many things I don't know. And I think that goes for each and every one of us out there in whatever your role is, whether it's in leadership or in participation. You don't know everything. And mostly you use yourself as a reference. And that's why these types of tools are just very cathartic, because they show you a wider sense. It's same for customer feedback. You think you know it. There are things that you are missing. And I think that's what this did. This, this made it very. Because here in Europe, it's much less of an issue. The whole unemployment thing, if I wouldn't have gotten it from the US I wouldn't have been so rigorous in addressing it. I wouldn't have. Because for us, it's different reality.

So, yeah, and I think that was very well received on the US Side. Just speaking from obviously being over here. So switching gears here. So, Kerry, there's one thing we did as a company, I think it was actually Camilla's idea that I want to bring up. So capitalizing on like the happy moments and creating those happy moments for your employees. We got a gift package. Do you want to talk about that real quick?

This episode of the Account Experience podcast is sponsored by CustomerGage, the leading B2B account experience software that ties revenue to your experience data in real time to help you make better account centric decisions that drive revenue growth. Quick question. What do you guys think is the number one reason B2B experience programs fail? Believe it or not, it's lack of C suite buy in. In CustomerGage's research with MIT, they've found the quickest way to align yourselves with with the C suite is to actually align with what they care about most, which is revenue. That's why Customer Gauge is literally built from the ground up to maximize and track the revenue contribution from your experience program in real time. Companies like dhl, Anheuser Busch, Heineken, yeah.

We get a good amount of free.

Bear 1 login, Iron Mountain, H&R Block, SuperOffice and SugarCRM are already using Customer Gauge to maximize their growth by tying their programs to revenue. And with over $10 billion worth of account revenue actively being managed in Customer Gauge, yeah, that's billion with a B, they're the leader in the space. But maybe even more interesting, they found that once you get alignment with that C suite, the needs of these B2B practitioners or the program champions are evolving too. In such a complex account environment, it can be really tough to measure and act on feedback quickly across multiple departments, divisions or even locations. Luckily, Customer Gauge has you covered there as well with account native features that easily help you not only measure the feedback from multiple stakeholders in an account, but act on that feedback in real time. Because at the end of the day, if you're not empowering your frontline staff with the right insights to address customer issues, you're going to be dealing with a churn issue. It's not a matter of if, it's really a matter of when. Customer Gauge helps you distribute this experience data across your entire organization, regardless of department, regardless of location, regardless of division, all in real time. No manual spreadsheets or a team of analysts are needed. CustomerGage's mission is to help B2B companies harness the power of account centric growth to drive meaningful change in their businesses. And that's a powerful thing. If you want to see CustomerGage in action, go ahead and check out CustomerGage.com and get a demo of account experience today.

Today.

You won't regret it.

Yeah, it was, it was a Tuesday. We were actually on one of our weekly ops calls and I remember a knock at the door and it was, it was such. And there's a pun coming. Sweet sentiment behind it, but it was this really, it was just so nice to receive. We're all kind of like churning our wheels. I think we all been working really hard. When everyone else shut down, it felt like we revved up and we got really busy. We were all working longer days because we were just passionate. We were amazed there was work to be done. And we were excited about it, but I think we were at the point we were just kind of like, does anyone know? I'm working this hard? And there was this knock at the door and this really. And this is when it all started. So he had on a mask and goggles and gloves, and he stood 20ft back. And I opened the door and there's this beautiful little basket sitting at my doorstep. And it's the middle of a leadership call, too. You know, we're on this call and I open it up and I'm the cheesy one on the team. I admit it, but I'm like, teary eyed. I'm thinking, oh, my God, like, who did this? And there's a card. There's a handwritten card in there. And, you know, this is, you know, Camille and Adam's way of saying, look, we appreciate you. We're thinking of you. And I didn't want to say anything because I thought at first I might be the only one who got this, you know, So I don't want to make anyone feel bad.

You were.

No, I wasn't.

And everybody else. Yeah.

And it's, you know, listen, I talk about this all the time. It's not about money. I mean, if she had dropped money in my account, who cares? It's nice. Thank you. Move on. But the thought that went behind this to have freshly baked croissants and muffins and, you know, it was just such a nice treat, especially we couldn't go to the store, we couldn't go to our local bakery. It was our way, their way of giving us that hug from a distance. So I think that was one of the most amazing things. I'm so glad you brought it up. I still have the card. It sits right there next to my desk. I look at it every day because it's those kind of things. And they're not small, they're very large acts that take very little. But there's so much love behind it. And I just remember talking to Camille that day about it and just saying, completely made my day. It made my week, my month. It was such a nice thing.

I'm going to jump in real quick because I have my own little short story. So we, similar to Kerry, got ours delivered to our door. And so we were at that point where we had two young kids, obviously home without daycare, things like that. So I'm trying to work. My wife was working as well. And these chocolate croissants showed up and the kids went wild. And it was it was a really good day. And there's been tough days, there's been great days, more good than bad. But at the same time, that one little gesture just brightened up that day, that week, and it was awesome. I sent a picture of both kids just like going nuts over the chocolate croissants to Camilla and Adam. But I guess my point is, like, it was an amazing moment and it happened at the perfect time because to Echo Kerry, it was like right when things were getting real. There was like that really interesting part of the initial Covid thing where people were like, oh, we're working from home, great. But then it started to get real and, like, the work was, you know, intense because everybody wanted to sign up a similar program like Customer Gauge during COVID to monitor their accounts. But I think that gesture was maybe small in your mind, Camilla. But I do really think that was a huge thing to do for everybody on the team. And I just, I was kind of curious to see where that came from. And I know that in your tasks of things to do as a coo, like, culture is a small sliver of that. Right? Like you said, it's kind of embedded into the. So it's not like you're necessarily championing it, but at the same time you kind of are like, these are all usually your ideas. They all usually have a massive impact in the company. So I was kind of just curious to hear about that.

I actually think it also came from that feedback. After so many suggestions of wanting to feel. I kind of like read these comments in a way that I see that people just want to be reminded of kind of like the closeness. And it was actually a friend of mine, she just started her business and she sent me a care pack and I was like, this is so awesome. And that's when I ordered them because I thought so it's actually not a grand idea or a schema or a structure. I think sometimes you also just can go with things. You don't have to always have strict policies behind them. I think it was. It's actually rare for me to do it. I think you guys know that. I think I'm mostly kind of steady in running our company and I always have a longer term view. So I. I'm not very busy with culture. I should be more. But I think when they bubble up, it's therefore probably you appreciated it so much because it was like in a desert of nothing, you got cakes. But I know that's not true. But I think it was just a good combination of things that tied Together. But also that realization that sometimes you can send something. We did these weekly lunches in the office, remember? And they all fell. Everything fell away. And it wasn't sensible and feasible for us to ship everybody a lunch every Friday when we had these Friday lunches because you know, we've got to be careful here. But I thought a box of cakes was such a great idea for us to ship. And I agree, actually I did not estimated to be that impactful. And it made me realize again how much more we are a family that's being impacted. So you said this thing about your kids and your wife and Kerry, you and your wife. And everybody's got that, that if somebody was at home with their. Their parents when we sent something and, and they saw it and it just made us look like great employers. But. But it does. It's. That is meaningful that not just the person, the individual, but their ecosystem understand that they are in a place where people are taking care of each other. I think that was more it. It was more the fact that we made it very visible. Look, we take our jobs very seriously. We really do care deeply. We want you to be fine. And here is something sweet. I remember Adam saying to me, where's my box of cakes? I didn't ship him or myself one, but. Yeah, so it wasn't a grand idea, but it was really something that I think again from the feedback I suddenly realized maybe we should do something and otherwise I would have made. And then it just popped up into my radar. So I wish I could say it was a very thought through strategic move. It wasn't. And we should probably do something like that, a bit more rigorous. So Kerry, keep me honest.

Yeah. And. But it's funny, the one thing you said that really took away from that whole thing too is you didn't think it would have that much of an impact. It seems small to you in a lot of ways.

Yeah.

And I think this is a really powerful message that we think that these have to be these grand acts or these huge investments to celebrate people or to get them to buy in. And the reality is it's a sum of all these little things that we do that really add up quickly and that just happened to be a really big one. And I think Ian, you're right. I think that was like. I'm so glad you asked the question because thinking back of the last nine months, that was probably one of my most amazing moments we had when we were unsure and tired. It just recharged us. It got us really excited again. And Bought back in real fast. So that was good example.

Yeah. And I think, Camilla, you said it that basically you got the idea from looking at feedback and kind of categorizing as. As well. They just need to feel involved again. And I think keeping that finger on that pulse by looking at that feedback, being afraid of that feedback is kind.

Of a really great.

Again, another point of, like, don't be afraid of it. Just start. Even if you get 20% response rate, set a target. We talk about this all the time on this podcast. Set a target to get from 20 to 40 in two months or whatever it is, and before you know it, this thing's picking up steam. And then all of a sudden, you, the coo, or any CEO out there has this amazing tool to kind of gauge sentiment of your employee base. Because, like, the last thing you want happening during a global crisis is people leaving their jobs because they're.

Yeah. Or not even leaving because maybe right now they're afraid to. But just being very demoralized and very ineff. Yeah, I agree. I think you kind of, like, get this idea as of what works, and then you read the feedback and they keep you honest. And the first time you read something, you might go. And the second time. But the third time, I think usually what happens is this. I'm hearing this a lot. There's maybe something in it. And so I translated that to something that, you know, you guys just love a pastry. But I mean, I could have. But so there is a little bit of being lucky with the translation. Right. You've maybe got to have a little bit of a filter. And that's why sometimes it's also good to have a sounding board. We usually actually use our gauges, our entire workforce as that filter. So we say, this is the feedback. Now tell us what you really want. And we couldn't do that. So we had. It was. In this case, it was Adam and me. And therefore we also made it a very personal gesture from Adam and me. So not every situation is the same, but I think that the actual stream of constant feedback helped make me aware of it and kind of like made me jump natural patterns a little bit. Yeah.

Yeah, I love that. So two other things I want to mention before we move on to the final topic, which I think is education, which I'm sure Kerry will have something to say about that. But. So there's one other thing that I think that you've championed, which is the COVID Relief charity donation we made during. Right in the heart of it. So we raised I think $20,000 for PPE during COVID and we donated that to Project Hope. I think that was another really great thing. I don't necessarily think we have to talk about it, but I wanted to kind of toot your horn for you because again, getting 20k in donations, most companies were, as you mentioned, struggling just to stay afloat. And the fact that we felt the need to donate that money to a charity says a lot about, I think you. But I think the company. Because that's pretty rare to do something like that during that type of scenario.

Well, thanks. I think that we have this. And I think that actually goes back to culture. It ties very strongly to a sense of integrity. Right. So just. I think my message to everybody out there is do what's kind of like compatible, don't. You know? And that's probably partly where sometimes my sensitivity comes from when it's about buying things for people. I think there's a lot of these types of programs that don't come from the heart, and then I just don't. It's just not for me. But it might work elsewhere. So I think it's. If that fits you, stick with it. That's aligned with your integrity of who you are. But I think with this charity donations, we were talking about it. I think a lot of people brought it up. And you had this great idea. And Ian and Kerry, we had these pieces of content, and we went through a few motions, a few rounds. Are we going to make 50? 50? Are we going to, you know, are we gonna make some money off it? We could use it. And we thought, no, if we do something, we should just give it away. And I think that elevated everybody again. Right. I mean, it made you feel like you were doing something really right rather than something commercial. And a little. And I think that was nice. It was kind of like, these are. And it's really dire when times are really tough. I think you can be much more rigorous in making bolder statements because, you know, what have you got to lose, really? It's scary. Anyway, so let's make a very bold move. And so we did that, and I think all of us, we were kind of like, wow. When we saw how popular it was and how much traffic we got in terms of actual people out there that we normally would not engage with, even they're not only our customers. There was tons of people that bought a piece of content, a certification to support charity. And it was. And they all completed it. It was, like, amazing. It actually lifted everybody's spirits up and hence, nice bridge into the last bit of this podcast. We have this fantastic program which was in the making, but it kind of like. It kind of like pushed it forward a bit or how did it catapulted it, amplified it.

Yeah, so exactly what Camilla said. It's a really good segue into the Academy. Kerry. So for everybody that doesn't know, Kerry is the VP of Program and education. So literally, education is in your title. And you were brought on to help educate not only our clients, but our internal engages. So, Kerry, maybe give us a brief overview of kind of the academy right now and where we've come from.

Yeah, well, you know, we. From the beginning, from day one, I keep saying this, we've had some really great content. Most of it lived in someone's head or in someone's desk or on someone's laptop. And where can we bring it so everyone can benefit from that? Can we put it out there in a way that not only our gauges can consume, but hopefully our customers also? And like Camilla said, even our non customers consume it. Now we've got three different audiences that are coming to us for that, for that content and that great information. And what I thought was really important, what we all thought was really important, is how do we share that? What's the best way to get that out there? When I came on board, my first mission was can we get it to all the gauges first and foremost and really made that important. So we went from just having content that's called certification to having an academy where people can check into, register, communicate, learn from. And I think that. I think, Camille, you're right. I think when this all happened, we decided to take that certification, profit, and turn it around and give it to charity. I think there was not a Nobody in the house argued the point. It's like, let's do this. It felt good. And I think some of us thought it would be a lot less. I think we were excited to see, like, people are hungry for it, people want to contribute. But we gave something back. We didn't just ask for a donation, right? We gave back this really great content. And I think that showed just how exciting it was to put that energy behind, you know, information training, best practices, thought leadership. And that same parallel was going on with our own gauges. What we did is we took that same. Same exact content that we teach customers how to grow their business. We took it to it and gave it to our gauges to empower them to do the same thing with every interaction. So I'm Proud to say every Gagee that works for us has been certified in our own program. They've gone through the academy, they've completed it, know it. And there's such a sense of pride and confidence when a customer success manager jumps on a call or a support ticket is answered. And that person not only knows their skill set, which we've also invested in that too of getting that kind of skill training for our team also, but also knows that methodology and can speak. It's almost like we have 50 consultants on staff at any given moment that can speak to that. And I'm going to ramble on here for like 20 more minutes if you guys don't shut me up. This just gets me fired up and excited. But, but you know, I think this is, this has had like breathed another, another like life into the organization when, when people were a little shaky or unsure. Here we are giving education and building out an academy to give even more back. And I think that was a big, big leap of confidence in what we do.

Yeah. So Camilla, that's kind of a question for you. So you've invested in not only Carrie coming on board to own this education piece, but other things to like Kerry mentioned, to expand skill sets like pluralsight and giving our techies and our CSMs the skills they need to do their jobs better. Why is education so important in an employee experience program? So what is it about it that helps develop employees that you think is important?

Well, I think one of the key things for any leader out there is if you want to be really successful, you've got to be able to build people's capabilities. I didn't invent that. That just is kind of like something that is part of any kind of educational and engagement track for employees. But on top of that we actually in our feedback from our gauges, so in our ENPS feedback loop which we now call academy as well. So we've made it all part of it. That was one of the things they asked for. It's like can I get more training? And it started maybe with the techie because we have very high skilled people that just need to be challenged and that need to feel that they're learning something new, a new technology, a new methodology, a new way of organizing or engaging. But it is also in the product team because some of these are ex programmers or ex developers. And then I think actually we have a fairly rigorous regime of promoting from the inside. So they are people that sometimes haven't seen a lot of management experience. So it kind of like just made Sense, but with everything that we do, and I think that is something for most companies, it doesn't really start to happen until you've got a good internal champion. So you need to have somebody who owns it and who runs with it. So enter Kerry, because that's not easy to get up and running a real good educational program, an academy that lifts internal and external stakeholders up is hard for what we do. We're pioneering, we're really teaching the ropes to a world that is not used to looking after staff, not looking after customers. It's seen as a service or as a cost. So we've really got to educate why this is important and how that actually gives you benefits. Clear roi. So education and training, we kind of just did it for free for a very long time. And it built very loyal customers and very loyal members of staff, but it wasn't scalable. And so I think that's kind of like why we had to get somebody great in to really run it and to think about the structure of it and what comes first and how do you train somebody in a kind of like, organized way continuously. And so I think that when we then found Kerry or when we teamed up, the rest kind of like just got put into motion from there. I think Covid, in a way, played in our advantage there. Oddly enough, that sounds a bit sinister to use it like that, but it was because people were sitting at home, they needed to be entertained. I think Netflix saw the benefit of that as well. But we tried to do it with, with some content. We're content people, right? So. And I think, Ian, you. You played a very important role in that as well, in bringing that out there so that, that people actually knew about it. Because we can build everything, but we've got to find an audience for it. So, yeah, I think it was partly the time, partly we always already had something. And then the feedback also made it very much one of these things that kept nagging at me, can we do it better? And then I think at some stage you just make a conscious decision, say this is going to be our investment for this year. And we actually, I think Kerry was September when we started with this. And you know, it's actually been phenomenal what you've been putting together since then. It's really a program. It's got really good content. Some of it we already had, but it got repurposed, got streamlined, got more savvy. So I hope that answers the question.

Also award winning Carrie. Now, in the list of adjectives, I.

Can describe it, once we have that award in hand, which is coming soon.

Yeah, I don't know.

I think Camille said a couple of key things in there too, which are really important. This is not a nice to have or wish I had. This is a need to have. I think companies who fail to educate, grow and invest in their people in this form will fail. They will struggle, they'll have high turnover, they will have a churn with their customer base. Because if you can't invest in your people to make them better and to grow, what are you saying to them? There's, you know, it's next up. You better just be ready to start cycling people through pretty quickly then, because people will not stick around if you're not going to grow them. And I think that spoke to what happened with COVID too. Camille. I'll piggyback on that. I think not only did we entertain them, but I think there was a fear out there of what happens if I do lose this job. I mean, it'd be great if I kept it. I learned something new and I can apply that, but if I lose it, is there a way that I can invest in myself? And we saw that also happen. A lot of people just genuinely invested in them own selves for the possible future of what might be coming. So I think when you talk about education, it's such a catalyst for growth, it's a such, such a catalyst for retention. And yeah, I'm excited you found me. I'm glad you used that word. Definitely did find me. And I'm so happy. It's been a phenomenal year of being able to do that for a customer niche.

So to wrap up Big bow or to tie a bow onto this employee experience gift here. So, Camille, you've said a couple things that I really want to call out. So these things, like, everything seems like it's disconnected, right. We have the gift package, we have the education, we have the surveys. But in reality, what you're doing is you're receiving the feedback, you're listening to it, you're acting on that feedback, you're closing the loop with your employees. And all of these things stitched together create this overall employee experience, which is the gaugey experience. And I think that's important to call out because people in your position that don't have this in place probably are like, wow, where do I even start? How do I even begin to do this? Yeah, but I think it's really important to say that, listen to the feedback, to start reading the feedback, processing it, acting on the things you can and if you have an opportunity to do one of those really awesome gift packages or whatever it is. Right. It doesn't have to be a gift package, but it can be a one off thing that does kind of feed into that employee experience you're creating.

Yeah. If you don't have a conversation in whatever. And I think it's hard for some, some companies to have a real anonymous conversation so you won't hear when they know that it's going to be related back to them. They might not give you all the things that they're thinking about and you just need it. You need it because then you can address it and then at some stage you can actually, you can use it in a conversation. You can use it when you, when you make a decision what to do and what not to do, it just drives so much of the input and it makes it a little bit more. It's not what would you want to do, to do to others what you want to have done to yourselves, but it's actually do to others what they want you to do for them. So it's kind of like really adding something on top of the golden rule of not just listening, but actually also listening, asking for more clarification and then using it to, you know, at least try to delight and stay connected. Because I think in that you give a message, I heard you, I heard you when you asked for a vitamin pack. I'm not going to give you vitamins, I'm going to give you pastry. I don't know if that makes sense, but I think it is that that conversation and that interaction and that has to be truthful. And I think with what you do with a feedback loop that's anonymous on your staff is you allow them to say things that they probably normally wouldn't say and then you've got to just be mature enough to deal with some of the hurt.

Yeah. And I think you've again just reiterating, I think you've done a great job managing us through Covid and beyond. We're already adjusting tactics post Covid now so I can speak very highly of the Experience program. So thank you for being on the podcast, Camilla. Finally. I know we've been talking about it for a little bit. I want to thank my co host Kerry and thanks for listening guys. Please like and share. Subscribe and we'll talk to you guys soon.

Thanks.