How BILT Improved Their Customer’s Customers NPS by 30 Points

Hi, my name is Adam Durrell and I'm the host of the Account Experience podcast. If you listened to us before, you'll know we're at the junction of B2B account management and the voice of customer, and that's why we call it Account Experience. And every week I get the opportunity to talk to an industry leader to get to share best practices and help you have some tips to run your program. And we really try to shake it up and get some of the best people in the business. And I'm so excited this week to speak to Nate Henderson because he's somebody, frankly, out of my own heart. He's really adopted the winning on purpose strategy of Fred's new book and so much so that he's even formed book clubs in his company to take the word out. So we're going to find out from that today. Nate Henderson, he's the chairman and CEO of Build Incorporated. It's a SaaS organization formed in 2015, which is about seven or eight years ago. We'll get into that with Nate. And he really has got net promoter a part of everything he does because he's delivering better ways for consumers to use assembly instructions to get value out of it. There's a lot to unpack here. Nate, welcome to the Account Experience podcast. Thank you for joining me today.

Thank you, Adam. Pleasure to be here.

So, Nate, why don't you tell us a little bit about first of all how you got on this journey and some of your background. I know you're with you with SAP before. So when's your education, your road taken you?

Yeah, so manufacturing engineer, kind of a technologist at Hart Business School. Then I went to work for, for sa. Did a number of different things across that business, including implementations, but a lot of time in product development, spent a lot of time building their mobile side of their business as, as you know, smartphones came out, et cetera. And then Bilt was actually an innovation that started inside of SAP. But any of your listeners that are familiar with SAP, you know, if you go and download Bilt right now from the App Store, you'll see this is very, very different from SAP's core business. And so, you know, together with, with Build's or with the SAP senior executive team, we made a decision, hey, let's let this, let's let this bird leave the nest and let it fly on its own. So we spun it out. It was a completely independent company in August of 2016.

Nate, can you characterize for the audience how Bilt adds value to companies yeah.

So let me start with kind of what is Bilt, if you will. So Bilt is a customer experience platform, but we focus on a very unique part of the, of the customer journey of once a product gets home or gets on site at a professional location, anything that requires assembly, installation, setup, maintenance, repair, we revolutionize that experience with 3D guided interactive instructions that we essentially curate and validate. And then we wrap around that analytics and also feedback mechanisms to help the brands understand the experience, get better at what they do. But that feedback is usually so much greater by volume as well as the quality of the feedback is so much more accurate that it actually has financial impacts for the brands. It's consumer durable goods like your star ratings. You're going to have higher star ratings across the board of what we do. People do things faster, higher quality, fewer returns, fewer mistakes. And so that's what Bilt is.

Can you share some of the products it's used for so we can visualize how it could be used for consumers?

So from the consumer side, think of Weber barbecue grills for example. We are the assembly experience for every Weber grill sold in the world. So today more than 170 countries around the world, 10 different languages. Think of anything that you would buy like at a Home Depot, right? Latte and coffee, coffee machines for example, toys, dollhouses, cribs, furniture. I mean anything that you would find at a, at a major furniture retailer, for example. We have a bunch of others that are coming for example in Europe that will be coming out soon. But anything that requires instructions, whether it be a consumer durable good or even professional related items. I mean Siemens is a great, great customer of ours at things in the electrical division or electric vehicle charging stations. Tesla for example, the, the charging station that you had put in your home. Those instructions now use build.

Now if I, so if I'm get really understanding what you're doing is that you've gone away from the paper based instructions that you might use once and put in a drawer to probably like a mobile or a screen based thing. That's where you get the digital interactions from and help you measure where people get stuck or use it. Is that. Am I getting the idea behind it?

Yeah, that's right. So, so, so today the. Think of today you have a, you have a filing cabinet at home likely where you put all these manuals built, built as that virtual filing cabinets and app you download. It's free to, to end users or, or professionals because the brands pay for it. And in that you can access these instructions for free. They Are they get updated in real time anytime. The, the, the, you know, an update needs to push down and then you can save, you know, warranty information, registration, all those processes are taken care of for you inside of, inside of build in a very friendly and empowering way.

That's amazing. My background was also with Sony and Philips and you know, capturing the registration and making that digital link was really on our mind. I could really see how that would have worked and the expense producing those manuals on paper. It must be a fantastic saving for these organizations as well.

Yeah. And one of the wonderful side effects of all of this is brands as they start to realize there is a better solution that is not just, you know, getting rid of paper, but it's actually improving the customer experience significantly. You have financial, you know, top line and bottom line impacts. But the next thing they say is I could get rid of most of the paper that I usually print and start making steps toward the day here in a couple of years where you won't use any of it. We have some brands that literally do not send any paper anymore. And others that Chamberlain Garage Doors, for example, a huge, huge player in North America, they have, they have taken a 64 page manual and turned it down to like 14 pages. And it, it's, it's eliminating, you know, 68 tons of paper every year that they don't have to ship with with products. So there's lots of wonderful side effects from it.

That's an amazing story. But that's only half of it, right, Nate? Because somewhere along the line, it seems that the light bulb of Net Promoter went off with you and that you could bring the whole world together. So that's what I want to dig into. How did that, how did you connect the two. The two parts of the customer experience equation there?

Yeah. So about two years before I started Bilt, I actually read Brad's original book, the Ultimate Question. And for me it just, it was like DNA level made sense. I just. Okay. This idea and concept of focus on enriching people's lives and, and when you do, you know, these people turn into promoters of your brand. For me, everything that I had seen at SAP and other brands that I'd worked with, that just, he, he put into words what I had kind of felt from, from the beginning. So when we first started doing initial testing around this idea, I already knew that the way I wanted to measure and understand that success was using the Net Promoter system. And so as we went through fine tuning that customer experience, literally over a period of a Few years just testing and testing. The goal was turn people into promoters of the brands that they serve. And we found that, that for example, the time people are most likely to speak about a brand by name is within 3 to 12 hours of finishing the installation, setup, maintenance or repair of a product. Right. And I think if we all sit and think about it, you know, think about the last product you use and when is the last time you thought about it. It's actually a very narrow window that we have to think about these things. And so if the goal is to create proactive promoters, you have to realize there's actually a very narrow window when we as consumers or professionals do that proactively. And so as we went through our testing, we realized that normally a paper or video experience, people don't come away from it as promoters. But after this curated build experience that again, we've spent tens of millions of dollars and years working on, I can now turn to any brand and say I can improve your net promoter score by 20% by just incorporating the built experience at the time when people are most likely to actually speak about your brand by name.

Yeah, well, I was going to say that, I remember from marketing school was that that's the, what they, I think they used to call it cognitive dissonance. That's the part of the, the, the decision making cycle where you, you need to justify all the big expense to put it out and then go, hey, look honey, look what I've just built. You know, it's that sort of thing and you're either most proud or most disappointed. I can really see how that works in that window.

Yeah. So it, it, it may be that you have a wonderful product that you've sold to your customers and it works six or ten months later. But do people proactively tell their friends about it? It's, it's, and you know, 15 years ago when Fred was working on this, that window was probably even weeks. But because of social media and you know, the access to information that we have, that window has narrowed dramatically. And so, and so we come to a brand and again, I can say to a brand, what's the elevator pitch for my business? We exist to create promoters of your brand at the time when they are most likely to do it. It's that simple.

So that gives some unique insights into that. You've got all of the digital information and I'm guessing that you can extend from that to get them to do reviews or give you some direct feedback. So talk, can you dive into the process that you've got of collecting the feedback from customers because I am really fascinated by this.

So once we go through or take it, take a user through that experience and again if any of your listeners go ahead, download built in and you'll see, you can listen to it, you can see it, you can let it guide you through it, you can interact with it or you can jump to different steps. All that is carefully curated, you know, to, to, to represent the different ways that we learn. But at the end of that experience we ask that question, that. Net promoter question. That's the first, the first one we can actually just based off of our data now doing this for so many years for millions and millions of people, we can actually translate that to a star rating now very, very accurately with like 98.8% accuracy. But then we ask the follow on questions, you know, what was the primary reason for you giving the score that you did? And then we ask, we give people the opportunity to answer the third question they would like to, which is which Fred Reichelt calls the Jenny question. Is there anything else that we could have done or that we could do to improve this experience for you? And we get response rates that are usually five to seven times higher than industry average. But these are now contextually nearly perfect because you know exactly the SKU that they used.

Yeah.

You know all that information is batched together. We can do it anonymously. Right. It's not, we don't, we don't have to infringe on anybody's privacy to do it, but it's hyper accurate information with it that a brand can use to understand that experience very well. And, and usually they will give feedback that's very specific and say if I was a detractor or even in many cases there may be still something wrong with the product. But the experience was so shocking, such a wow moment that they come away as promoters because they're so impressed that hey, you know, Weber, you've done this for me. Wow, that was so great. But there was one mistake on here. I'm going to tell you what it is. And so it's, it's a wealth of information for the brands in a very focused area.

Yeah, I've got. This is triggering so many questions. I'm going to try and keep this down here. So from the consumer's point of view, they've assembled something that Weber Barbecue. I've done it myself by the way, Nate. So I am that person. Are you able to then answer questions about the purchase experience? Because for me that's like interesting you can look back up the channel, so to speak. If I'm a manufacturer, that's got to be interesting information for me. How is that working?

Well, to a certain extent, yes. So the, the, the built experience is so memorable that, that major retailers began asking us to provide information that they can put on the product information page.

Ah, interesting.

Because, because the purpose is if I can increase someone's confidence while they're shopping for a product and say hey, yes, it's going to be delivered, you know, online or I'm going to need to work on this myself. If we can increase that confidence, you're in some cases increasing the add to cart rate. You're impacting that 20 or 30% just by instilling confidence.

It's that trust, isn't it that this can, this is going to turn up and it's going to be okay for me to do. I really agree. The more information you can put in the, in on the product page, it's got to be really useful.

Yep, yep.

Okay, so you've got this going on. Really incredible understanding of the net promoter score. So how, zooming out a bit, how has that then helped you with your relationships with your customers? Tell me about your net promoter program as it, you know, from a, from, from a zoom out perspective.

You know the first thing is I think at a DNA level that it aligns us with the same success of our customers. Right. That our purpose is to create promoters of their brand, not mine. And, and, and, and, and I set from the very, very beginning this principle. Everybody don't worry about the built brand, worry about Siemens brand, worry about Weber's brand, worry about Toto, worry about Delta Faucet. All these other wonderful brands that are out there make promoters of their brand. Because if we're enriching the life of their end customer, that then enriches the life of the brand. And that in turn, if we believe in the research and Fred's research, et cetera, it will enrich our lives as well. And so, and so unlike most brands that will push that out and get that score for their paying customer, we actually look at it as a unity of effort in what we do in that I actually have three scores in our business and the first one that we start with is we ask the net promoter question to our customers. Customer, right? Are we creating a promoter of their brand? So at the end of the built experience when I say how likely are you to recommend this brand? I'm not asking them about builds, I'm asking them about the brand that we're serving. Yeah, Right. And so we take that piece of information and we distribute it very, very quickly and in real time to our brands. Then we periodically will ask the question about our paying customers. Okay, are we enriching their lives with it? And do we have alignment in what's happening? And then thirdly, we then ask the question of our team members and employees. I, as the chief executive officer of this and the chair of the board, am I enriching your life? We found early on that in order for all these things to line up and work in unison and focus on that end goal of enriching the life of our customers. Customer, it was actually very important that we hire people that want to do that. And so you may be surprised to find before someone can receive a job offer at Biltine, they have to read winning on purpose before they come. And their final interview is with myself or a C level executive. And we sit down at a fun little meeting. It's called the bucket meeting. We could get into why at some other point. But we sit down and we go through the principles with it. And what I'm looking for in that is a someone that's willing to read it, to put forth the effort. But when we talk about this concept of enriching others lives, I'm looking for a light to go off in their eyes or go on in their eyes.

Yeah.

And what I've found is that if you will bring people into your business across any of it, finance, logistics, doesn't matter. If you will bring people in that want and aspire to work in an environment where the focus is enriching the lives of others, the effect is shocking. And let me give you, let me give you our real hard example with it. And I know out there, you know, there's lots of people, ah, NPS didn't work, et cetera. I think that we've applied the NPS principles as well and as purely as anyone in the world. Okay, our, our net promoter score that we asked the general market. Our net promoter score is 86.

Congratulations, Nate. I know how hard that is to do. That's astonishing.

Shockingly high. I mean that's, that's even, even, even for myself, the proud papa this, this company, I say, wow, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's amazing. Our net promoter score of our existing customers is just below that. Our paying customers, our employees is in the high 70s as well.

Congratulations. Also awesome. Well done.

And it starts, it starts in the beginning with bringing in the right People that want to operate that way, that jointly say, hey, this is how we're going to define success. Enriching the lives of others. And then it's starting at the very, very end of the value chain of the enrichment with our customer's customer, and then working our way back through it and looking at our processes and everything and saying, are we aligning to that end result? And that's what success looks like.

That's incredible, Nate. I mean that first of all, I love the fact that you've set such a clear mission for the company. And if I can use a word, it just gets rid of all the bullshit. You basically say, do you agree with the stuff in this book? And you go off and do it. I'm a huge fan of that myself. I love the Golden Rule as a way of doing this. And we try to operate everything in our company the same way. So I'm really on the same page.

This episode of the Account Experience Podcast is sponsored by CustomerGate, the leading B2B experience software that ties revenue to your experience data in real time to help you make better account centric decisions that drive revenue growth. Quick question. What do you guys think is the number one reason B2B experience programs fail? Believe it or not, it's lack of C suite buy in. In Customer Gauge's research with mit, they found the quickest way to align yourselves with the C suite is to actually align with what they care about most, which is revenue. That's why CustomerGage is literally built from the ground up to maximize and track the revenue contribution from your experience program in real time. Companies like dhl, Anheuser Busch, Heineken, uh, yeah, we get a good amount of FreeBear, OneLogin, IronMountain, H&R Block, SuperOffice and SugarCRM, are already using CustomerGage to maximize their growth by tying their programs to revenue. And with over $10 billion worth of account revenue actively being managed in Customer Gauge, yeah, that's billion with a B. They're by far the leaders in B2B for this type of thing. But maybe even more interesting, we found that once you get alignment with that C suite, the needs of these B2B practitioners or the program champions are evolving too. In such a complex account environment, it can be really tough to measure and act on fear feedback quickly across multiple departments, divisions or even locations. Luckily, Customer Gauge has you covered there as well with account native features that easily help you not only measure the feedback for multiple stakeholders in an account, but act on that feedback in real time. Because at the end of the day, if you're not empowering your frontline staff with the right insights to address customer issues, you're going to be dealing with a churn issue. It's not a matter of if, it's really a matter of when. CustomerGage helps you distribute this experience data across your entire organization, regardless of department, regardless of location, regardless of division, all in real time. No manual spreadsheets for a big team of analysts are needed. CustomerGage's goal is to help you create an entire company committed to best serving your accounts. And that's a powerful thing. If you want to see customer gauge in action, go ahead and check out CustomerGage.com and get a demo of account experience today. You won't regret it.

Let me just go along the same track on that one because I think I kept the same thought processes as you. I had the same thing when I came across Fred's work also. And I'm like, this has got to be the way of doing stuff. Net promoters, you know, it's like a light bulb went off with me as well. For me, I didn't need to, for it to prove the financial results out of it. I just knew it would work. I don't know how you've been on your journey because you've been doing this for seven years. Do you feel you have to prove the value of net Promoter in monetary ways? And if so, how are you doing that? Or are you just like this is just going to work? How do you negotiate that?

Well, recognizing you have different segments that you have to convert to some extent, as I said, existing employees, it's got to be a DNA level thing, right? They just, they just have to come in with that level of, of, of faith with it. Our investors and other members of our board of directors. Yeah, you have to, you have to work on, on them understanding that we have the fortunate effect that when, when you look at numbers like revenue retention, as a case in point, our, our revenue retention numbers are usually in the 140 to 160% range. Just crazy high. Fred, Fred, Fred talks about earned growth. I think Fred Reichel told us that we're still in like the top half percent of earned growth metrics with it. And so for us, we've done it long enough that there's tremendous proof behind it. But certainly as we go into brands, not all of them approach things, you know, that way. And so it does take time, it does take effort. But this is where, you know, we can start, you know, mapping the things and say, okay, well, let's talk about this experience. Lowering returns. What's that worth? Lowering customer support costs? Increasing star ratings if it's in a professional segment? Well, what's it worth to have somebody take 25% less time on a job and increase quality at the same time and call backs? So, yeah, there is still a bit of, if you will, evangelizing that has to be done. But the fact that Covid and all these other worldwide impacts and inflationary things, we've never dipped below about a 98% customer retention rate is, I think, a testament to the fact that, as you just said, Adam, most people believe that the golden rule works. They want it to work, and now you just kind of have to help them with tools that support them in that process.

I think that's also my takeaway, which is that, you know, you've got to reach the hearts of people. And I think you were converted by that. And I definitely was. But sometimes with other people, you need to also bring the numbers, which is also fine, by the way, to support them. In my head, the CEOs who I've spoken to that have adopted Net promoter or this, they just said, oh, this is going to work. And they don't need the proof that the middle managers maybe do to do that. But let me segue into something else as we move towards earned growth, because I think this is really interesting. You just mentioned that some of the benefits of what you said are to do with lowering the return costs, cost to serve the number of hours. Those are great, but they're on the reducing cost size of the balance sheet. I think where you and I are probably most excited about is the earned growth part, which is about bringing referrals, because that's always on the positive side of the balance sheet. So I'm going to pivot to that, if that's okay.

Sure.

Maybe you can tell me a little bit how you've been helping customers with their referrals. And then after that, let's dive into the whole. The whole book club thing.

Absolutely. Yeah. The earned growth is in some respects the easiest one to kind of sense or feel from a DNA standpoint, because we all do it in our personal lives. Right. I mean, I've used the example so many times. How did you feel the first time you rode in a Tesla? You know, and it just quiet, it's fast, et cetera. Oh, yeah. You're telling people about it, you know, the next couple of hours you probably told 10 people about it. Right. We've all had those Experiences both, both, both positive and negative. So on one hand it's the easiest one for people to kind of wrap their head around, but measuring it and tracking it is. Most businesses are not set up to show, to do that. Now there are, there are proxies that help in that process. You can look at reviews that people leave, right. You know, that are converted into, into star ratings. That, that's certainly, that's certainly one that gives you a sense as to, as to what's happening at a repeat purchase. If you've got a retailer that will, that will share that information for you, that's a way of gathering that picture. But I also think other things, other things like I know of, I know a brand that's a, a, a big, you know, NPS shop have been for a long time and a couple of years ago they happened to launch a product that was, that was a new product for them and the launch didn't go very well. There were, there, there were some mistakes in it. But the amazing thing was that their customers were immensely forgiving, immensely forgiving because there was reputation, there was trust, there was loyalty. Right. Tremendous loyalty already there. And they said, ah, such, such a brand. Yeah, they kind of missed it on this one. But when I call them, they take care of the problem immediately. They solve it, they make it right for me, et cetera. And so, and so you know, we, we, we, we talk about finishing strong with it. That's a way, you know, if you're, if you, if you, if you truly are building that loyalty, even those times when you fall down a little bit. Yeah, you, if you're, if you're building a loyalty based business, you'll find your customers respond very positively to that. And so it's, there are, there are some of these components of it that if you're looking in the right place, you will see metrics that help you understand that that's happening. But certainly as an industry, one of the things that we all need to get better with, with, with retailers, with distributors, et cetera, is how do we, in a non invasive way, how do we start tracking loyalty more directly for the, for the benefit of our end customers and also for us in it, and that's that, you know, Fred is working on that. I think that's something we all need to put our heads together to, to have more transparency because we know the end result of it is happening, right. We see the individual pieces of it. Now we need to take that next step. And okay, is it, is, you know, what are the mechanisms going to be that feed into that earned growth that we can really standardize. And then boards, you know, corporate boards start asking. Okay, that's the main metric that I want to know about.

Yeah, I agree. We're in the, you know, I can see how there are ways of doing this in the B2C world because we're all familiar with coupons and the digital linkages. I'm particularly concerned with B2B which is a more complicated decision making process. But we're getting there. We've got some, we've made some strides in that. We've got our first version of our own growth widget. So I'm really excited about this. This is something I'm really going to.

And we all need to continue to innovate in this and add to it. We've got several customers that are, that are on that B2B side as well that are, that are trying to work on, on these things. So yeah, we just all need to come together and share the ideas and we'll get there.

I agree and I love the idea of open source which brings me again to the book clubs. So by the way, Fred gave a fantastic write up of how you're running these. But I'd love to hear firsthand how did you get into the idea of running a book club and how's that been going?

Yeah, so I think, I think some level of book club you find common in executive leadership teams, you know, the CEO or somebody will say here's this book, let's all read it together. And that's a good step in the right direction. But, but when, when we started build there were that there were a number of books, Prince and Principal. Among those was, was, was Fred's in this. We also had another one was called the Outward Mindset which, which is, which is a very very, you know, parallel but much simpler principle about hey, just thinking of others before yourself. But there were, there were a handful of others that I looked at and said these were the foundational concepts, the principles that helped us start built and made built what it is today, some on a technology level and others. And I just said what good does it do if I'm the only one that has read it? And if these principles are that valuable, let's turn them into tools to actually solve day to day problems. And so what we do is, is we don't read hundreds of books. There's only a few of them that we do and, and, and winning on purpose. In the first quarter of every year we review it as an entire company as we have another, another book that would be, that would be really important. Like, for example, another really, really good one is Clayton Christensen's how will you measure your life?

Yes, I've got that, Love that.

Fantastic book. A lot about his innovation stuff, but how it applies to teams, to families, et cetera. What we do is we'll take winning out on purpose and have everyone read it. And then every two weeks, everyone is divided, divided into small little work groups that they will come together for an hour or 90 minutes and they'll discuss the principles of, say, two of the chapters and then say, how does that apply to our business? And then the week after that, we all come in an all hands meeting and a lead from each of those teams will be a voice or a spokesperson for that team and say, these are the things that we learned and we believe this is how it applies to our business. And then actually behind me, we kind of have, at our, at our corporate office, we have this inner sanctum that is actually a bunch of walls that, that have been painted as whiteboards. And we go on there and we write down the principles of each chapter and then we have the teams come in and say, what are the, what are the places that apply to us? What are the things that we agree or even disagree with? And then what are the action items? Or what are, what are the things that we need to solve? And so, and so what we do is we will go through the entire book that way and start building up a set of core principles that apply to us, but also action items where we say we can do better in this area. And then what that does is a, it gives us a common definition of success across the business. Now we have a common vocabulary as to how to solve it. And then I, I have found the miracle of it is the unity of purpose that it creates across the organization. But it's not a mandate from Nate. It's free will. It's people looking at it and reading these principles. And now the principles have changed them. Like DNA level inside, right? Their way of thinking has changed, their heart has changed. And now, now they're starting to solve problems. Thousands of problems every day I don't even know about because we're all on the same page of a. How we, how we measure success, what it looks like, and what are the principles that we're using to solve these things. This is the epitome of empowerment. And so I think, I think as you take the time to take your entire employee base and this is something that scales wonderfully well, thousands and thousands of, of of team members have the respect and confidence in, to say, let's all learn about great and true principles. And then I'm going to take that. And now to a large extent with those principles, let's let you govern yourself in your day to day actions based on these principles. And it's, it's, it's miraculous.

I love it. I'm really inspired by what you're saying. I also really like the book. One of the things I was surprised about was how soft it is. In a way. It talks a lot about love. I know for pretty well and I am obstinate about this. I said allergy. What was the reaction when you started to talk about this? And he's like, well, I just believe it's the right thing to do. I also really like the chapter in the middle. I think it's five where he really goes into the metrics. And that's really the. Okay, this is how it proves at work. I, the gentleness about it. I was really surprised. What about you? Did you get any pushback from that when you introduced it to your team?

Wild embracement. And the reality is, Adam, at the end of the day, it's just people. And we have families and homes and people we care about, et cetera. And I believe that people yearn for that. I mean, I can tell you now, in the six years of running our company, I can't think of a time when I've had to stand up in front of our organization and say, I need you to work harder. Because I believe that people want to work in environments where that is how we measure success and that are, that are, that are consistent. So yes, in our, in our, in our, you know, corporate culture world that every, hey, it's not personal, et cetera. That's not, that's not the direction that the world is heading in. I think, I think, I think you have to look at people for who they are as a. They have free will. They don't have to work for you. They don't. They have a choice and that's a wonderful thing. But recognize that they have desires, passions, that they're, you know, love is involved in what we do and you know what, it's possible for people to love their work. It is possible. And so look at that, Embrace it, harness it. And the results are just fantastic. And that's why I think it's a beautiful melding what Fred did of, of recognizing these things instead of, instead of pushing them away or pretending they don't exist. No, embrace it now. See the huge financial impacts that come when you do. And I, I mean our business, our business, we have, we have grown, I think at staggering rates because of it.

Nate, that's a fantastic summary of where you've brought your company and also your learnings from the book. I'd love to hear it. Thank you so much. Now, people want to follow your work and find out more about Nate Henderson and also Bill, how should they do that?

We are pretty active on, on LinkedIn. If you want to, if you want to follow me or our channel, we, we announce other brands we're doing, but we also, also, I push out a lot of thought leadership stuff by. We did a series of interviews with, with Fred Reicheld where we go deep into, into some of these principles that are good. We have other authors that, we do that, that support those, those overall principles. So we, we put things there, we talk about products that we launch that. Brands that care about customer experience. We'll put Those out on TikTok and Instagram, Facebook and other places. But yeah, happy to, happy to support anybody and contribute to the cause.

Thank you so much for your time today, Nate. What an inspiration you have. Ladies and gentlemen, Nate Hedison from Bilt. Thank you so much.

Thank you. Al.

Jesus.