How to Operate a World-Class Experience Program Globally w/ Bisnode

And I think anyone working with any kind of change process have heard the expression, like, things are different with us in our market or in our department. And of course, you've got to respect that they think so. And, you know, but at the end of the day, what we need to do is to get some data put into a system where we can send out a survey and then we have to listen to feedback. So, you know, it's as simple as that, really.

Hello, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of the Account Experience podcast. And today we're joined by Marianne Molgaard. She's the group Customer Engagement Manager at Biznode. And Marianne had a great LinkedIn post go viral recently which detailed her Global Experience program at Biznode. And full disclosure here, guys. Biznode is a customer of Customer Gauge, but man, is this story interesting. Marianne doesn't hold back and gives us the full details on how she launched a program globally across markets, how she rallied internal teams around the customer, and even how the program has impacted Biznode's business. This is a can't miss for anyone operating a global program. So without further ado, let's dive on. I'm here as always with my co host, Kerry T. Self. Say hello, Kerry.

Hello, everyone.

You're coming from the Customer Gauge HQ in Boston this week, which is really exciting.

Back in the office, real excited.

So today, guys, we have a really exciting guest. We have Marianne Molgaard from Biznode. Full disclosure, she is one of our clients, but she has a really great story she published on LinkedIn. We would love to talk to her in more detail about that. So welcome, Marianne.

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Of course. So I figured we could start this thing off by maybe just telling us a little bit about who Biznode is and what they do and your role there.

Yeah, well, Biznode is a data and analytics company and we work across 19 markets and we have a headquarter in Sweden. And. Yeah.

And so give us a little detail around kind of what you do at Biznodes. I know you're the group customer engagement manager. So what does that kind of entail and what are your duties?

Yeah, so I work in group marketing and I'm responsible for running the NPS program across all markets. So basically I make sure that the program develops, but I also make sure that we upload data every month that we integrate from different CIM systems, all these kind of things. I have close contacts to champions in all the markets which we can talk about a little bit later. And, yeah, that's it. Basically.

One of the things, Mariana, I would love for you to kind of expand on. When you say 19 markets, I think some people might think, like, oh, one hour down the road, two hours down the road, where are these markets, these 19 different markets you speak of?

Well, we're very well presented in Northern Europe. So that is Denmark, Sweden, Norway, and Finland. Then we have the Dach region, which is, of course, Germany, Austria, and Switzerland. Then we have a bit of the Baltics, like Latvia and Estonia. And we have what we call southern markets, which is Slovenia, Croatia, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Poland, and then we have Belgium as well. So, yeah, I'm not sure I mentioned all of them, but you get the picture.

And that's what I think is so impressive that Marianne's been able to do this not across 19 very similar regions or markets, but very different. Different languages, different cultures, you know, different products, too, in some of those different regions too. Right. So I guess my big question here is in doing this and trying to create a program that kind of blankets 19 different regions, different countries and all, what were some of the challenges? I mean, I want to come out and ask the hard question right out of the gate. What challenges did you run into? And I'll also ask another question with that. Did you do them all at once? Was it staggered? Kind of. What was the approach to getting this rolled out?

Well, I took over the program from someone who started it. So I've been running this program for about three years. But I want to get back to something else you said. You said about cultures, because another thing about business, that we're a company who sort of acquired a lot of companies over time. So that's why there's so many products and so many cultures, even locally now we are on a really good track where we are sort of gathering all products and markets and everything. So we are in that process at the same time. But I think that everyone is determined to sort of make one biznode. And so it helps, really, in the process that we are on with this program as well. But it is, of course, a challenge. And I think anyone working with any kind of change process have heard the expression, like, things are different with us in our market or in our department. And of course, you've got to respect that they think so. And, you know, but at the end of the day, what we need to do is to get some data together from various systems, imported into a system where we can send out a survey, and then we have to listen to feedback. So, you know, it's as simple as that, really.

You say it's simple, and I think you're being very humble in that. But so let me ask you this, then. Instead of asking you what the challenges are, what tools and resources, what were the things that you used to kind of leverage your success to get this. I love what you said about being one Biznode. And I think anyone who runs the business that has more than one location knows the pain of this. It feels different as you move around and then acquiring other businesses and bringing them in can really start to tear away at that One Biz Node feel. So what were some of the resources? What are some of the tools that you're currently using to help with the one Biznode mission?

Well, it obviously helps that our CEO is 100% behind this. And also the whole leadership team, they have decided that they want to work with nps and they have targets. NPS targets. They mention it in all town hall meetings. All kind of. When we talk about financial results and sales results, we also mentioned the NPS score. So that, of course, helps. But also, we've done a lot of training, both with you guys, but also locally. And we have sort of every month, we sort of have a forum, an NPS forum with all the champions from each market, and we sort of share experiences. What works, what doesn't work. Some countries are progressing very quickly, but of course, again, we are undergoing a lot of changes, and we have a lot of different programs that we are developing. So sometimes we don't have the resource that we would like to sort of progress quick enough. But, you know, so we discuss different things in these forms. But I think the most important resources in this is middle management. If we get middle management on board, it sort of. And they understand that working with NPS is not an extra task. It's actually something that can help them to improve their retention, which, you know, will also reduce the time that they need to make new sales. Then if we can get them to understand that, then you are halfway. Really? Yeah. I'm not saying that we are 100% successful on that, but I think we understand the importance of getting the middle management on board. And we are spending, I am personally spending a lot of times on, you know, meeting with these guys and helping them to set up reports so they can overview the performance of their teams and these kind of things. It helps a lot.

So I didn't know if you had a question or not. I know you're hearing all the things that we've been talking about, and I mean, the first one that stands out to me is CEO buy in. How important is that? I think it's a theme that we keep talking about, but. But it's gotta start very high up. And, you know, you guys have that blessing, which is great. And you touched on a couple of things that I thought were really powerful. But I guess my next question would be, is tell me a little bit about how do you get middle management in? What are some of the things you leveraged? And if you don't bring it up, I might give you a little hint too. Cause I love your champion and darling program. So we might jump into that a little bit too. But tell me a little bit about that. I think that's everyone's challenge here. How do we get management to buy in is always important. So I'd love to hear a little bit on what you've been working on to get that to happen.

Well, I've just invited them to meetings and explain to them what they can achieve from the program. And I've sort of make. I think when I start talking to them, they're quite amazed by what we can see, you know, from the responses. And I think, you know, some of them have never thought that it was that important until they actually saw what we could get out of it. First of all, they thought maybe the survey model was too simple and they were used to something else where they worked before or something like that. But usually they're quite amazed by what they see. And when they read the comments, they can relate to them. In the beginning, they couldn't so much because we weren't good enough at selecting the data. But the better we become of that, the more they can recognize the customers and the respondents and the responses. But another thing, which you probably don't know, Carrie, is that when we started this, well, in. I think in 2018, we tried to have like, we called it, like customer feedback day, where we sort of invited all sort of everyone from the leadership team and middle management to say, okay, on this day, we will give you a handful of responses from clients, and we would like you to close the loop, or not just close the loop, but to call these clients and hear what they have to say. Some picked up on it, some didn't, but the ones who did, they were like, whoa, you know, they were so amazed. And I think for some, it was a little bit difficult. And we decided if we were to do that again, we needed to look a lot more at the. The responses and because when you sort of look at the response and it goes into product details, you perhaps if you are the financial manager of the company, you perhaps you don't know so much details and don't know what's on. But I think that this is. Was the first step on sort of getting people interested. And I think it's also you gotta do a little bit of selling the idea internally sometimes as well. But this helped.

So, yeah, I'm laughing because of the sheer cruelty, but also just that I did not know that we might do a session just on that day alone. I think I would love to hear those stories.

It wasn't 100% a success, but it was a start and it created some interest, I suppose. So, yeah.

Yeah. It's really a testament to your management team and the actual culture at Biznode that you guys were able to do that and really allow those executives to close the loop. We had another story from a customer where the CEO closed the loop with a client and the client responded back. You have a customer for life just because the CEO took time out of their day to call the customer. So that's powerful stuff. That's really interesting. I kind of want to pivot a little bit, so I'm kind of curious. You mentioned the 19 markers. We're going backwards. But I think what's really interesting to me is the cultural differences. Are there any of those that really jump out at you? So, like, when you have these middle management meetups where, like you said, you're dealing with all of these different markets, is there something that's jumping out in your head as, like, all right, we have to maybe treat this region a little differently, or is that. What are you seeing that you can share with the audience? There's.

I can say that a country that stood out from the beginning is Hungary. Hungary just do so well on everything. It's amazing. But then again, they've been working very intensively with the program for a long time, and even before, I think we did it on a group level. So it's really, I think, very much about how mature you are working with the program as well, but from sort of cultural differences, of course, there's a lot of things you can see in the results coming in, you know, how much some markets I can see, they mainly just give a comment if it's something positive. They want to say something positive about the account manager, which I don't think is very helpful feedback, even though the account manager might be happy about it. And in some markets, I think It's. It's really nice because even though you give a 10, you are very happy to tell us what we can improve still, which is so useful. But otherwise, of course, we can see the same. And I know the sessions we've had with Customer Gauge. Also we've discussed the fact how much is culture when you see a score of 63 compared to a score 20? And how much is actually the customer receiving something that is so much better than the customer who gave us 20? And it's sort of hard to tell because of course there is a cultural difference. But then again, the country like Hungary, for example, they've been working so much and it's so much part of their processes that they deserve the 63 that they were getting at the time, which I think they're probably still getting. But I think it's like a mixture and it's just understanding that as well, which is important, that there is a bit of both. I think this is what we've discussed a lot about in the forms that we've had, you know, and then I think that's what we've decided is, you know, if you are in a country where you think that's. They are reluctant to give you a high score, you know, don't compare with Hungary compared to what you had last year instead, you know, and make progress from there. Because if we want to link it to retention, then can you improve your retention if you achieve a higher score? So I think this is just how we look at it, really.

Yeah, I think that's. That's important to. To note because you guys aren't necessarily focused on benchmarking across regions. You're more focused on internal targets because, you know. And you guys have figured out that a higher score equates to better retention.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. But I think this is only this year. I think that everyone understands that. Not to compare against other markets, it took a while to get away from. And I think that some markets might have thought, oh, we won't ever achieve the same score as Hungary, so we might just opt out of this game. Not completely, but you know what I mean? It's just when a target is so hard to meet, you might give up a little bit, but that's not the target. So we've set targets from last year. We really set targets on most response rates and on score for each market, not only on a group level. So I think that's really important. And, like, how much better do I want to perform this year compared to last year?

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Mariana, I hear you talking about the school and I heard response rate, so. And then I heard retention. So are there other metrics that you're currently measuring in the program or is there any other Metrics you're tying the program to that are important for business.

I think we also. I didn't mention that so much, but we are now looking very much on the bounce rate because we're really, really focused on good data, which is of course what we are selling to customers on a daily basis as well. So we should really be focusing a lot of good data. But yeah, so we will continue. We really want to get that 100% right. And you know. Yeah.

So bounce rate, just to make sure I understand this is when you send out a survey, you send out an ask basically, does it. Is it received by someone or does it bounce back? Is that correct?

Okay, yes.

Make sure I understood that.

And this is a sort of. A little bit like this tells me whether the individual markets are actually working on their data quality. So, you know, If I see one month that this, this market has a 10% bounce rate, then I can go back and say, did you forget something this month? And then we can start looking at that. Or there is an error somewhere. It doesn't need to be only behavior. Sometimes there is an error in how you have set up your report because not all of our data is automatically transferred. Again, we're not just 19 markets, we're also 19 CRM systems. So it makes it quite challenging.

Sometimes I think everybody cringe when they heard that. That's an amazing thing to have to manage.

Yeah, but, but that's interesting.

I was going to just unpack that for half a second here that just to think about that. We're always talking about metrics and what we measure by those metrics and what we can tell. And that's fascinating, looking at a bounce rate. And I mean, you can, I guess you could identify, are they managing? Do they truly value the data they're putting in? Do they really want the engagement? And then the final piece would be, I guess this could also be a way of gaming the system. It's something you can look at and say, are there account managers out there who are maybe putting in bad data to keep their score higher because they know they might have a few customers that might not give a great score. I don't know if gaming or anything is something that you've dealt with, seen, if it's anything that's popped up in this relationship building that you're working on.

Yeah, a little bit. But I think at the end of the day, what we want to focus on is to automate this as much as possible. And I think also you don't want to put in bad Data, it's on your customer card on the CRM system because. So you, you really want to have the right contacts, but sometimes you forget to update your decision maker data because it's so obvious to you who you're dealing with. So. But yeah.

So let's go to metrics real quick. So for those of you that don't know, Marianne published an article on LinkedIn about our NPS program and it went pretty much viral. So this is one of the main reasons we're having you on here, because it was a great story. But we also love what Biznode does, obviously as one of our clients. But you said that in the past three years you grew your score from 14 NPS to 40 and your response rate from 3% to 17%. So how has that positively impacted your business and how did you do that?

Well, first of all, the survey we sent out, when we got a score of 14 and a response rate of 3%, I think some markets, and not all of them, some just took all the, I think all the contacts they had from the CM system and sent all these clients. And of course, some were users. And when you get a question, would you recommend Biznode on a scale from 0 to 10, you get a little bit of an odd response because if you have no influence on whether to buy or not. So again, we did a lot of work on the data. And what I did was because I also realized that because we have so many SIEM systems, we use different kind of methods to select data. And the data that we, the accuracy of the data that we imported was, I wouldn't say it was incorrect, but it didn't match each other. So I wanted to make sure that we actually got the same kind of data from each market and maybe if they weren't able to deliver to all the data fields we wanted, that didn't matter as much as that we got the same kind of data from each market. So that's one thing we worked on so we can compare in the correct way. So that's one thing we did. And I can't remember what was the rest of the question.

How is that? I mean, that's a pretty big jump, right? So 14 NPS to 40 and 3%, 17% response.

What I wanted to say is 14 was perhaps not the correct score. If you were to take the decision makers out of the respondents we had, you'd probably get a higher score, but because you can't really differentiate who's decision makers or not. But I ran a report to See who answered in. In 18 and who answered in 19 and took away some of the others. We could see that, that those clients who answered in 19, they gave us a highest. Well, in 18, they gave us a higher score in 19. So we have done something to improve the score, but not as much as from 14 to. I think it was 35 last year. So. So it's something in between actually. But I mean we have grown during this period. But we can't say that it's all due to working with nps. It would be nice, but I'm sure that other things also plays a role. We have developed new products, we have optimized processes, we work better together across markets. There's so many reasons why we have improved, but surely listening to client feedback is one part of it.

Yeah, and that really speaks to trust. Right. And you mentioned this in your article as well, that not only do you have trust from your clients because you're asking them the recommend question, but you're also creating that really deep trust in the organization in the metrics. So that's maybe my follow up question to that is how did you manage to create that trust in NPS internally across both the upper and the middle management levels?

I think one thing I mentioned already is it's really important that you can recognize the feedback from customers. Once we got the data right, then it all became a lot more relevant. And also distributing reports actually means a lot. I've created so many reports in all kind of ways and every time everyone is surprised by what we can see. So that's also one way of creating trust. But it really made a difference that account managers could recognize feedback from their clients. We had in the beginning, because we asked so many users, so we had, imagine a major account manager and he has his key people with the client that he speaks to and then he gets two scores of one is six and one is seven and they're from people he's never heard of and the people who he wanted to hear from. We didn't ask them or we asked them and they didn't respond. So when they start seeing responses from people that they recognize, they really trust the program and trust that, you know, and, and then they start to be more interested in the program.

So yeah, I, I hinted on this a little earlier and I, it's one of the things that, that I just, I love about Bizden and what you've done, Marianne and I would love for you to talk a little bit about how do you use your championship and this darling program. Of yours. I'd love to hear a little bit more about that. But how do you use that to build trust in the organization?

So the Champions is something we decided to have before I took over as well. I think in business we've been running the program for about six years and I think we sort of use customer gauge for maybe three or four years. But so we knew that one person couldn't do this on their own. So we needed to have some people locally who would take care of that. And I think, of course we've changed our perception over time. I mean, some people thought that you can give the responsibility to one person maybe in customer care, maybe someone who didn't have a lot to do and they would make sure that we get a good score every year. But, you know, it didn't really run like that. So. But now the. The Champion is, is both like a coordinator on the program, but they are also responsible for making sure that everyone is updated on results, developing the structure locally. And they are also sort of, what can you call. It's not a super user, but someone who has the most knowledge about NPS locally. They have a good network internally where they can communicate well with like the sales team or product team locally or stuff like that. And we are sort of a team. They report to someone locally. But we are sort of a team. And we have our forum every month and we get together once per year where we learn more about the program and we decide how the program is going to develop moving forward, what should we focus on, how can we help each other, stuff like that. And then as an addition to that, for the first year, last year we had a Darlings program which was something that we actually decided on the previous get together. We have every year, the workshop. So it was. We decided that every market would nominate someone every month who had done something in line with the program, something really good. It could be that they had had a good initiative with a client which would move a client from for example, a 7 to a 9 or something like that. But we wanted to make sure that it wouldn't just be for salespeople, it would also be customer care. And so we sort of. It was the Champion's role to make sure that we sort of had people from everywhere. And then eventually we ended up with a list of a lot of nominations. So every month we did a diploma for the Darling. It was presented at their town hall meeting or whatever. And then eventually at the end of the year we put a committee down with a cold piece from Customer Gate Actually, and some people from senior management at this note, and they had a selection of their favorites and also a chat around what is important for a Darling. And then we ended up with a total of, I think about 12, 15 people who joined us in Vienna with a workshop with CustomerGate. And we treated them to a treasure hunt in Vienna and nice dinner and everything. And they, of course, went back to their markets super positive about nps, and they sort of told all their colleagues what a great program it is. And that sort of helps the local champion when she or he wants to put in new NPS initiatives. So we definitely want to continue with that idea. It's not been so present, should I say, this year, because we've had different challenges. For example, Corona, I don't know if you've heard of it, but, you know, it's sort of taking up a bit of time and change things slightly. So. But we're definitely running the program again for darlings, perhaps in a different format. We discussed that and. Yeah, we have. Yeah, it will be.

So, Marianne, a couple of things there. I just want to. I want to break this down really fast. The first thing you said was, and I think this is a mistake, a lot of people do, they try to dump it on one person. And I think I'm happy you said that. But, you know, someone thinks a champion means we'll go out there and make the score better. You said that. And take care of everyone, return those calls and get our response rate up. And I love the fact that. And we've talked about this before, that's why I was hoping you were going to say that. But, you know, when you get in a room with all these champions, the ones that are new to the role will say, yeah, everyone's kind of expecting me to do it. And then the ones that are more seasoned and been there for a while, they have found a way to really get everyone doing it. I think at the beginning of the podcast, you said, this is not some. This is not an extra task. This is how you do what you do every day.

Exactly. And I think when you're successful, it's integrated in your processes. It's not an extra task. And I think that is. That is a success the day that, for me at least, this is a huge success the day that this is happening, that it's just part of everyday life and, you know, but it takes some. Some effort to reach that.

Well, the other part that I love, too, is you talk about, and that's why I really wanted to talk about it. Was because this is not just Marion breaking down data and sending out reports on the program. Successful, you know, and you knew that not all the management and all the front line were going to buy in. So you kind of empowered your champions, right? You recruited these people who are already doing pretty good, who were curious and interested. You've empowered them so they go out and then you have these stars that start to rise in the form of darlings, and then you recognize them and you feed them. And now what you've created is it keeps feeding itself and it's. It keeps growing as a program. And I think that's the most amazing thing. When you get in a room with these people, they're genuinely excited about improving the customer experience. And I think you've created a system that does that. It's continuing feeding itself and enhancing and growing. And yeah, I think that's what was most amazing. That's why I was so excited to be on today, is to talk about that part. Wow, thank you. I just wanted to break that down a little.

No, we are proud of that as well. So, yeah, definitely it works.

Yeah, I love that too. I think that's very, very impressive. I think a lot of people, as Kerry mentioned, underestimate the impact something like that has on a program. The other thing you mentioned that was really interesting, Marianne, that we've talked about a couple times on the podcast previously, is who you select matters too.

Yeah.

You said they have to have networks within their own region or department with different departments like sales. That's so important. So, yeah, I just wanted to point that out for the listeners as well, because that could have been glossed over. But I think that's really astute from you and the Biznode team to actually pick people. What we carry, and I basically label as influence within the organization, so they can influence their peers, they can influence the sales team to take it seriously. Seriously. But also this helps feedback into performance on obviously the program side because everybody's a little bit more bought in when you pick the right people. So I think that's just another really astute thing that you've done at Bizno. So kudos on that.

Thank you.

And if you go to these meetings, you'll see that the room is representative of all those different departments too. Ariana has done such a phenomenal job of really reaching out and plucking out those people. And, you know, whatever topic comes up, it has this almost 360 degree approach, the conversation because someone from marketing, someone from sales is in the room already. As part of this program. And she's just done a splendid job of doing that.

Thank you. I think that the risk is also and it is about knowledge because it is so obvious when you are going to select the champions to select someone from customer care because you think, oh, you know, a customer survey, there must be someone from customer care. They are the ones that can influence a good score. This is if you don't know much. So you know, but it's all about spreading the knowledge about the program and then they will sort of understand that, you know, it's not a customer care task, it's a joint team effort really. And I think this is what's what we understand now.

So I guess that's great. Go ahead, Kerry.

Yeah, well, I was going to ask and this might be the big ask, this might be what we're all building to and what curious minds want to know. But have you seen revenue growth, have you seen sales, revenue retention grow as your score has grown over the last few years?

Well, yes and no. It's quite difficult again because we sort of measure this locally and in different ways. So I can't answer that question, I'm afraid. But what we know is that our business as a total is growing and so is our score. And I think this is the comparison we can make at this present moment.

Yeah. And that's powerful. I think that's, that's really again, if we, if we go back to the origin of NPS from Fred Reicheld in the HBR article, it's long term growth, right? I mean it's literally doing the right things in your business at an operational level and strategic level that will drive additional growth over time. So I think that's still a powerful statement is that yes, you can see the growth overall from the org as the score goes up. One other thing, Marianne, that I think we maybe can end on is like what are you guys working on? So I know programs constantly evolve, you're constantly trying new things. What's the next couple months look like for you guys at Biznode?

Well, I think I mentioned before we are working a lot on a group programs and group initiatives and so on and we have these cool growth beds, as we call them. So group products that we are developing and they are being sold now, some have been sold for a couple of years and we are focusing very much now on instead of only focusing market wise like country by country, we are now sort of focusing on our group products and the score on the products because we import for most markets we Import also the product name. So I'm working now closely with the PMs for these products. And we are making sure, I mean, the challenge we have is that we sell so many products and sometimes the customer buys more than one product. So the response we have, we don't always know if it's in relation to what product that he's responding. So we are sort of making sure that we hear from all the right people, again, data, you know, and so that is one thing. The other thing is that we are beginning to use the live reviews from Customer Gauge. So we've just opened up for one market and we have five markets coming up. But we would also like to sort of use live reviews on a product level and also on maybe we have our own academy for our own clients. So we sort of, you know, would like to also use that for live reviews. We want to. Yeah, so we want to use it in that way. Plus, we are implementing more and more transactional surveys. We wanted to concentrate on our relational surveys to start with, but we are implementing more and more transactional surveys as well. So. Enough to do.

Yeah, it sounds really exciting. I think especially with the transactional surveys, it can get really interesting, like you said, where it's pretty much you can get something coming in every day, which is really exciting, I think, to see that transition.

We have done transactional surveys for a while on sales also for our smallest clients. We sell some rather small products as well, which is like a survey displaying your credit rating. I don't know if you've heard of it. Here we have in most of Europe we have aaa, AA or single A for your credit worthiness. So we are doing already a transactional surveys on sales for small clients. Great.

Kerry, other final questions for Marianne before we log off here.

No, I, you know, again, I, I'm a super fan. I really am. And I think Marianne thinks I'm making this up, but I really geek out when I'm with her, with her team. Any, any opportunity I have to, to, to talk to one of them or to engage. They've been, they've been huge in the, our own academy, CG Academy. I think they're my, my top students, if we're going to call them that, my learners, they really love absorbing information and it doesn't stop there. They don't do it just to get the certification. They literally turn around and then apply it with their team. So there's been a number of instances where her own champions have reached out and said, okay, I hear you, Carrie, but I want to talk, close the loop here and help me help my area out. And they'll continually bring that back. So I think what I'm most, most impressed with is the culture that's been created around this. No question. What I really just want to do is really celebrate just how well you've been able to do this, give a voice and power to a lot of people who want to do the right thing. So bravo.

Thank you.

All right, guys, so this has been how Biznode is reducing churn globally with customer feedback. Again, we were joined by Marianne Molgaard. She's the group customer engagement manager at Biznode. Marianne, thank you so much for joining us today.

Thank you. Thanks.

And please like and subscribe, everybody share with your friends and we'll talk soon.

Sa.