Making the Experience Magic Happen at Scale w/ Mark Elston, PowerforceGB

Mark, what do you love about your job? Tell us in about 10 words.

I love helping our teams make a difference for our brands every day.

Hello, everybody. My name's Adam Durrell and I'm the host of the Account Experience podcast. You know this CPG flavored edition of the Account Experience podcast. You'll find us in the planogram of B2B account management and the action alley of a voice of customer. You know, that's why we call it a can experience. And every week I talk to an industry leader to share best practices and tips to help you develop your program. And this week I'm delighted to talk to a leader in the CPG ecosystem. His name's Mark Elston and he's strategy director of Powerforce gb. There's going to be no dead stock in this podcast, I promise you. Powerforce GB is an award winning sales solution agency based in the uk. It's been working with Molson, Kors, Haribo, Lenovo, Pilates. I'll come back to that in a second because that's one of my favorite ones. And Tetley, also another one of my favorite products. The company is part of Advantage Smolen, which is a global provider of innovative outsourced sales and marketing solutions for consumer goods companies and retailers. And it prides itself on its people and values and I'm really looking forward to hearing much more about that. Mark, hello and welcome to the Account Experience podcast. It's great to have you here.

Hi Adam, great to be here.

Now, I just want to drill on one thing. Now, Plaudis was a name I didn't know, but when you show me the brand, in fact, if you can wave it around.

Absolutely. There we go. So McVitty's Digestive Biscuits Jacobs. We have a relatively large team actually supporting the pladis business out there in trade.

Well, I didn't know the name Pladis, but I got to tell you, it's funny, a long, I mean, like centuries ago when I was doing my industry placement, I went for an industry placement with McVitties there we go Factory in Park Royal in London, if you remember what that is.

Yeah, I think it's evolved over the years into various different businesses. So yeah, it was the greatest trip.

I ever did because all the other students went to visit, you know, engineering companies and I went to Vitis on a mechanical engineering policeman and I saw them making Jaffa Cakes and we got free samples at the end.

Fantastic.

There was a best ever. So I didn't know that, but thanks for the connection. I'VE made with my past a little bit about powerfuls Chibi and about the company.

Yeah. As you. As you said, we're an award winning sales solutions agency based in the uk, so part of the Advantage Smollen Group, we actually won Agency of the Year and Team of the Year this year in the FMB Awards, which is the field Marketing and Brand Experience Awards. So obviously very happy about that. I joined the business about six months ago after spending about 20 years across a number of different FMCG branded manufacturers. So. So yeah, really enjoying the time here.

Who are you working with? Just so people can place you in the business. I'm sure there's many people that know you.

Yeah. So I started 20 years ago working for Mars actually. So started carrying the bag, doing the sales rep job and still sort of look back to those times with great fondness and sort of learning lots in my three to four years there. Moved then to work for GSK selling Lucozane and Ribena actually. So when they own the Lucozane Ribena brands before selling them to Suntory. Yeah, exactly. And then spent ten and a half years at Molson Core. So firstly sort of managing their outsourced field sales team. So Powerforce and the Powerforce team were one of my customers ultimately. And then I sort of evolved through that business through some global commercial excellence programs, sort of leading those initiatives in the UK and Ireland. And then more latterly, last four or five years I've worked on the sales technology side actually and it's an area area really motivates me. I get excited by so how we can use data and technology to really make the life of a salesperson that much easier and help them to do their job brilliantly, which is ultimately to sell these great brands.

Oh, I really look forward to unpicking that a little bit. But I'm just going to take one step back because not everybody on the podcast knows I think what a sales solutions agency is. So maybe you can position it for people you're somewhat in between the vendor and the retailer, et cetera.

Correct? Yeah, absolutely. So when the vendor or the manufacturer wants a team of salespeople to go out and make sure that their brands are turning up in the most sort of in the best way and to maximize on their sales. We talk about us playing really in that where the magic happens. So where, where brands, shoppers and retailers come together and we really the, the job our brilliant salespeople do is effectively to try and turn those shoppers into buyers. Okay. You know, we, we're Working across lots of very competitive categories out there. So any little difference we can make to make our shoppers pick up Moviti's Digestives, Haribo Sweets or Coors Beer over and above the competition, then that's what we want to aim for.

Basically for those who are listening to this and don't see the video, Mark's holding up these brands.

I'll make them.

We have them on the. Yeah, on the, on the video. It's a great AV presentation that you're doing.

Yeah, no, perfect. And look, we have, we have lots of different, like we have lots of different models as well in terms of our contact strategy. So those brands that I've sort of just shared there, we have dedicated strategic teams. So we've got long term contracts. We've been working with molson for over 10 years actually and plis for five or six years as well. So we have dedicated teams who visit stores and engage with store staff in the modern trade and in, with store owners in the, in convenience stores in traditional trade have teams that are tactical teams as well. So they might go out and just execute a certain brand promotion or certain activity. And so our main focus of majority of our teams visit in the off premise. So cpg, we also have teams that support Lenovo that you mentioned up front and Motorola within consumer electronics. So they'll visit Currys for example, other electrical retailers in the UK doing, doing a similar thing but also engaging with store staff to help educate them in terms of the benefits of the Lenovo brand over and above some of the other competition as well. So the way I really look at it is how we can engage with different people to influence them to help convert that buyer in, that shopper into a buyer.

And they're not doing it necessarily in the store themselves. I guess they might be a sort of in shop promotion. But is the work like doing the facings and doing make sure the promotion is there on behalf of the manufacturer?

Yeah, there's, there's, I think that's thinking back, I think traditional field sales is very much like that. You might talk around merchandising, you might talk about making sure the, the pricing's right and all that kind of stuff. And there absolutely is a still element of that at Powerforce. I think what we've tried to do is evolve that over a period of time. So we'll use, actually if you talk about the modern trade we'll try to use retailers EPOS data to actually point our sales teams to the potential challenges or issues in store. So there Might be an availability challenge that when as a sales rep, if you walk into a store, it's massive. Right. There's huge ranges. Some of the ranges of our customers are massive. So we want to try and help them to identify where they can make the biggest difference and have the biggest impact. So will be using sales data and technology and machine learning to really help them understand where those biggest issues are that need to be resolved to automatically maximize the sales for the customer.

There's a lot to unpack there, but let me just try and pass that for my mind. First of all, I love this because it's really speaking about increasing revenue for the retailer and the brand owner. Right?

Correct.

But also marrying that with experience. So it's got to be a better shopper experience or a better experience there. You're really making a connection with the revenue which I'm particularly fond of looking at. But again if I just take one step back is that it's a two way process, isn't it? You're there to educate and help the retailer or the modern trade, but also to gather information back for the brand owners.

Absolutely, yeah. Correctly, yeah. We're definitely their eyes and ears out there in store for sure. So you know, the national account managers within the vendors, within the brand owners will spend a lot of time agreeing joint business plans with the buyers at the retailers or at the, you know, other operators and wholesalers and distributors. Our job really is to make sure that those joint business plans are executed to maximize the value for the brand owner but also for the category as well. Right. So that's, that's absolutely an area and I think another area is, is interesting is, is currently what we're seeing is a lot of retailers being challenged in terms of the number of store stuff in store as well. So as much as we can help the in store star to understand where the potential challenges are, understand where they can be focusing their time is adding value to them as well.

I can really understand that and I imagine like a sort of a SWAT team where you can go, you're more flexible perhaps than the customer owned staff.

Yeah, I think so. I think that's one of the reasons why manufacturers look to outsource sometimes this area, area of their business because we can be quite flexible and ultimately I think they're tapping into our expertise as well. So you know, we've got large teams out there. We've been doing this for a number of years. Being part of the Advantage Smolen Group as well. There's a network of operating companies across Europe that we can. Really part of my role is to understand what some of those companies are doing, to really understand whether we can bring best practice into the UK market to benefit our customers or even to share what we're doing in the UK to benefit our other operating companies across Europe. So powerforce in the UK and then advantagemolen across Europe can. Can take advantage from that, that expertise.

Have you got any examples you can talk about about some of the best practice you can bring in or share around?

Yeah, I think one of. I talked about the various different sort of operating models earlier or contact strategies. So. And the awards we won. So the. The Team of the Year award this year was won by what we commonly refer to internally as our Harry Moco team. So that's our syndicated team of salespeople who sell both Haribo products and Molson Coors products within convenience outlets currently. So we were working with both Haribo and Molson Kors and they had very similar objectives within the convenience sector. So they really wanted to grow distribution of their core range within convenience stores, especially those convenience stores that aren't necessarily head office managed as well. So where there might be a store owner that has the autonomy to choose what they stock. So they wanted to make sure the core range and distribution were in stock and that those were being displayed and featured in the most effective way. So because their needs as manufacturers are very similar and they wanted to maximize their investment, we actually proposed a couple of years ago to join the two teams together. So the decision maker in the store is the same person, the store owner, the store manager. The objectives for the brand owner are exactly the same. Growing distribution and growing visibility. So why not actually join the two teams together and grow the size of the store base that you can go and visit. So it ticks a couple of boxes for the brand owners. They get to more stores than they would be able to get to if they were operating by themselves. But it gives a real sort of impact for our sales teams when they. When they visit store because they're both very strong brands within strong impulse categories.

And I imagine it's like a two for one, isn't it? Because you're able to get economies of scale with this.

Absolutely.

Really entertained by the two brands of Haribo and Molson Coors being together. You know, it's a great brand synergies there. Maybe Gummy beers.

I like it. I like it. Yeah. You obviously got a job in marketing, Adam. Europe.

No, I'm just.

I didn't. The Story of Dad jokes, but I think the product.

I would love to see alcoholic Haribos, but that's, you know, we just, we can go.

Yeah, I couldn't comment on that. I could comment on that. I think they work together because I say like, yeah, decision makers. The same. They're non competing. Yeah. And potentially complementary to each other. You know, there's someone going in to buy the beers for this evening and then buying some sweets for the, for the kids or for themselves as well. But yeah, it works well for, for both Molson Cores and Haribo.

This podcast is sponsored by CustomerGage and they're the experience leader in the CPG market. And let me tell you why they're contacting more people in the industry, independent trade and modern trade, than any other customer experience company out there. And you'll know the brands that they work with. We're talking Coca Cola, AB, InBev, Heineken. Just E takeaway. They're literally pulsing millions of contacts around the world in more than 60 countries multiple times a year, delivering those insights to thousands and thousands of frontline employees in those companies. But you know, it's not just the CPG business. Customer Gauge is famous for. They're ranked number one for B2B customer experience by Gartner. However, if you're in the CPG business and you have not contacted Customer Gauge to understand what is going on in your business, you're seriously missing out because we know there are other people out there just doing it once a year. Well, CustomerGage gives you customer insights 52 weeks a year, right to the front line in real time. It's going to absolutely transform your business like nothing else. But don't take our word for it. Listen to the podcast and they'll tell you exactly why.

Let's pivot a little bit to the technology you're using because I guess this is really an area that you can also go to scale on. So what are some of the advances that you're seeing with your sales teams that you're able to bring to bear?

Yeah, so we're seeing where, I think where we can get access to granular levels of data is where we can add some real value. And that's very much more in the modern trade. However, access to data within traditional trading conveniences is improving. So all of our teams would operate using a mobile handheld device, whether that's a phone or an iPad. And so we will align with our customers around their key objectives, around distribution, around availability. And we will use our in house proprietary tool, actually to make sure we're capturing the Information that we want that team to capture and directing their actions through that SFA tool. The additional piece on the data side within our grocery. So we will have grocery EPOS data from the big four retailers in the UK and we partner with our data solutions company, a company called Data Orbis, who are based in South Africa and they effectively will work with us to help manage that data because there are millions and millions of rows of data and transactions going through from these retailers on an hourly, on a daily basis. So the first job they'll do is they'll manage that data for us and then they'll use some clever algorithms based on regular sales trends to look to identify where there are any exceptions to those sales trends. So where there might be a problem with availability with maybe promotions not being activated. And what those algorithms do is they then send an alert to our SFA tool. So the sales rep within their application is directed to the brands or the, well, the SKUs. They're going to drive the biggest impact for the retailer, but also for the brand owner. So bringing that to life, they may see, let's say McVitty's Digestives. So that's an alert that comes up on their system because we have this in place for plaidis. They'll actually then the first thing they'll do is they'll engage with the store manager or the grocery manager. They'll share with them the information which is really powerful because that's their data, it's a retailer's data. And they'll then go to the shelf, they'll then go to the stock room and see whether there is an issue around availability or number of facings on shelf, whatever that might be. Cool.

And that's something I'm guessing that some of the larger, sorry some of the smaller vendors out there are somewhat behind on technology. I'm experiencing that in my own contacts with them. And so you're able to come to a solution with scale that I'm sure they can only dream about with some of this stuff.

Yeah, absolutely. And we have different models as I said. So you know, we provide that to our Molson teams and Pladis teams. We also have a solution which refer to as panel. So we will have a team of people who are out there and visiting these stores on a day to day basis who aren't necessarily dedicated to one brand owner. But we can give them the access to the data. So we can ultimately it's about driving the action of that salesperson in the store. And one of the challenges of field sales is you've got large remote teams. They're not office based. You can't be watching them all day, every day. So trying to direct them to make the biggest difference and add the biggest value is really key. And ultimately when they're collecting that data in store around the actions that they're completing, we can then aggregate all of that up and go back to Molson and Haribo and Pladis and say, look, our teams have had this specific effect on your business. They've driven X amount of incremental revenue through these retailers.

Yeah, you've got to deliver those stats to be in business. Right? You've got to deliver.

Yeah, yeah.

So that is a brilliant pivot into the thing that makes your business work, which is people. And that I think is one of the biggest challenges of keeping a consistent experience out there. You know your folks are representing the brands, right?

Absolutely, yeah.

Like Salesforce, Remote Salesforce. I want to lean into that. Mark, how do you, how do you make the people experience work? And you guys seem to win all the awards, so how is that? Can you spill some of your secrets?

Yeah, well, I think there's sometimes a misconception around outsourced field sales that it's, you know, it's a separate team. You know, you've got the brand's own team or the manufacturer vendors own team and then an outsourced field tail teams. The way we look at this is that they are an extension of the brand's sales teams. So when they're visiting the stores, they are effectively introducing themselves as being from Haribo or Molson or Pladis. So that's the first important point because they, they feel a real sort of loyalty and connection to the brand and want to make a difference. I think the second piece is that driving the right values and behaviors within the team is absolutely key because there's a huge amount of trust that we put in people. We're often recruiting people into maybe their first sales job, maybe second sales job and all of a sudden they've got a car, they're visiting a certain geography and visiting these stores and acting on behalf of the brand. So we put a huge amount of onus on our values and if our people understand those values and feel as though they're taken seriously, then naturally that behavior will follow and it has to be supported by operational rigor as well. So we have to have strong, strong line management who are working together with their teams and supporting them and looking to develop them on a, on a daily basis. So values and behaviors are Absolutely key because we are the face of the brands with the retailers.

And what's your measurement like on this? What sort of tools do you use to understand if your folks are happy or, or whether good issues? What are some of the ways you're measuring that experience?

Yeah. So for a number of years now, we've made submissions to the Great Place to Work accreditation and really proud to have been awarded with Great Place to Work status for a number of years. And really that accreditation is awarded based on direct feedback from our team. So they'll fill in a survey each year and that feedback and the information they provide will effectively be marked and will be awarded that accreditation. So we have that external accreditation and then internally we'll be working with our teams to get feedback on a regular basis to understand what's working, what's not working, and really that focus on marginal gains. Continuous improvement is really key and I.

Imagine that's a really good recruiting tool as well. You're able to hold that up looking at your website. It's all about the awards that you've won. That must be.

Yeah, absolutely. And we, there is, there is another. There's. I didn't know about this service actually before I started with the business, but there's a, there's a website called Glassdoor effectively where, where when you leave a business, you, you effectively will. Will provide some feedback on that company. And we generally do perform at Powerforce ahead of some of our direct competition, which is, which is great, you know. And the other thing we're proud of is we've had, I think probably two things. We, we have, we, we, a lot of our team will move in to work directly for the brand owners. So we've seen a lot of people develop their careers, so move from field sales into account management or into other senior roles within manufacturers. And also I think the numbers, I think between 90 and 100 people have actually returned to work for us. They've left, joined another business and then decided to come back. So, yeah, we must be doing something. Something right.

Congratulations. That's really good. Now you've had a long, interesting career in the, in the CPG market and, and, and so with your industry veteran hat on, Mark, I hope you don't mind me saying that, but what's going to happen next? I mean, we're right in the middle of a sort of a macroeconomic crisis. We've got food prices going up, there's a squeeze on everything. Staff, as you mentioned, what's going to happen in the next 12 months in the retail Scene.

You spotted the gray hair, right? In terms of that veterinary veteran industry knowledge. Very good question. I saw a million dollar question, isn't it? But I think the one thing we're looking at as a business is I think there's still going to be the place, maybe even more so at the moment for that physical connection with retail in the outlet, whether that's modern trade, traditional trade or on the consumer electronic side, very much still that level of influence required. However, we can see that there needs to be a blend between sort of that physical contact strategy and digital contact strategies moving forward. If you take our relationship with Lenovo for example, we know that the consumer electronics shopper actually starts their journey online in a lot of instances and that may often be. It might not even be Google, that might be Amazon. Okay, to look at what's there, what are the ranges, maybe check out some of the specifications of devices. They then in a lot of cases then visit the store because a laptop purchase, it's a high value purchase, they maybe want to touch and feel, they maybe want to talk to someone who is an expert and ask some of those questions. So that's one example I think, of where there's a bit of a blend of the physical and the digital coming in to support the shopper or the consumer in making an informed purchase.

Yeah, that's a big challenge, isn't it? Because you want the shopper to have the choice of where they buy it. On the other hand, it's nice if you can secure that sale for the retailer where they're in.

Yeah, absolutely, yeah. And the shopper may then they may visit store and they may then go online to make their final purchase. But having the opportunity to engage both online and in store I think is going to be important, I think in the uk, especially around legislation. So hfss, so high fat salt and sugar legislation went live first of October last year. And what we found with our partnership with Pladis is actually the focus has then moved away from big displays, big visibility, because the regulation doesn't allow you to do that now, but more on, on shelf availability. So we've really had to use our data to understand actually how does that impact on what our teams are doing in store. They're no longer able to create the big sort of impactful displays front of store for these products. So how do they, how do they maximize the brand's visibility? And we work closely with PLADIS to trial a number of different contact strategies and what's becoming really clear actually is that Onshell and the aisle are now the focal points away from maybe some of those front of store or gondola end type activations that have always been the key areas for brand owners, especially in those categories previously.

That's fascinating. And the data tells you that rather than gut instinct. Right. And there's, there's some classic stories and legends in the CPG business. You've got to fight those.

Right.

With data.

Ultimately. Yeah. Look, for me, and I'm always a big believer, it's a bit of a balance. Right. I think you can. There's a lot of experience, whether that's with our customers, within our teams, you know that we've got a team. People have worked within this business for 10, 12, 15 years plus. So there's a balance of using, you know, what we're seeing and hearing out there in store, what we're seeing and hearing from our customers, and also then what the data's telling us. I think if you're able to harness the power of all of that, then you're onto a, onto a good thing and really aligning to, you know, us helping our customers really understand what, you know, what the future is going to hold and what they maybe should be focusing on in areas that are going to drive the biggest value in return for them.

I think that's a really good place to leave it. Mark, that was a really good quick tour around the harbor of what you do at Powerful. So I really appreciate that. I think that for me, a couple of things really, really stood out is about how you're using the data to change things, about how you're making experience happen at scale with people and really sort of thinking about where the magic happens.

Absolutely.

There's not many people who can make experience happen at scale in the way that you do. Mark, I really appreciate your time today to tell us about it. Thank you so much.

No problem. Good to meet you. Thanks, Adam.