Candid Conversation with Adrienne Barker

I'm good. The roles are reversed. Last time I talked to you, you were interviewing me. Now I interview you.

Absolutely.

So tell everyone where you are.

So right now I'm in Belfast, UK, and you are in the States, right?

I'm in Florida.

Yeah, everyone locked down, so that's fine.

So what is it like being locked down and what does that really mean? Are you, you You can't go out, can you go out with a mask? Can you give us an inside scoop?

It's not that bad actually, because I work from home and I do studying here, so basically I stay home anyway with my internet. The only thing is that I just not prefer to go out, but we can once a day for activities outdoor or shopping for grocery, because Tesco still open and so on. That would be the only thing I would prefer to go out, to be honest.

Now, how do they know that you just went out once a day? Is there any kind of tracking on your phone, on your door?

I don't think so. I don't think they track that hard. But I mean, you can check on Google. Did you know that? Like, there is a tracking location. Like, whenever you bring your phone outside, Google already tracks you if you allow. Yeah. So If they really want to track that, they will know. I mean, for sure.

Okay, got it, got it. I can't stand looking at my bangs that I cut. I'm sorry, they just are—

You look great.

No, I know. Those dog shears did not work well for me. That's so bad. When it gets really bad, I'll just put on my halo hat. So, okay, so you're in the UK, and okay, the grocery stores, do you have plenty of toilet paper? Lysol and hand sanitizer?

It's already come back actually, like a week ago or 2 weeks ago. I think the one that's still out of stock are those who ship. But Kellogg's already come back, like 5 pounds, 8 pounds already comes back. They know the market. Everything come back to normal if you ask me in the store. Except those lactose-free or gluten-free stuff. Still quite out of stock. Yeah.

Oh, that's tough. So if you have a special diet, then that's a little tougher.

Oh yeah.

What do you work on? Tell us what you do during the day. You're a student. So what are you going to school for and what are you, what are you working on?

Oh, so the school part, everything online. Even it's not online time, everything already online, like library. I can access it online as well. So nothing really different apart from going to the university. And like attend any lecture, just that. And we— I don't have exams, so I already do assignment and submit online, so I have no need to involve with anyone, to be honest.

But apart from me though, what are you going to school for? What are your plans?

My master's degree, criminology and criminal justice, at Queen Belfast University. So that's what I'm studying right now. Um, but what I'm doing aside is like with my client and so on, so I'm still working as well.

All right, so, so just make believe because we all don't know anything about you. So you're— you want to be criminal? So what do you want to be?

I decide to— okay, here's the story. Um, my study abroad story is to get outside Thailand, and the easiest way is to pursue master degree since I already have the law degree as my bachelor degree and I'm Thai. Um, If you might not know, it's quite hard for Thai people to get visa. So I'm interested to study master degree. Um, I about to finish my first degree for last year about entrepreneurship. This is my second degree that I'm here, so somehow keep me stay abroad. And because I couldn't go back home as well during this time, um, yeah, so that actually one of the reason why I left Thailand to like stay abroad for like over 2 years or something.

Wow.

I would like to pursue this side, but I want to carry on my professional degree since I have the opportunity to do that. Why not?

And so you say the opportunity to do that, does that come down to having the money to do it?

Well, I work for it and I pay for it.

You do? So really, that's amazing. So you're not— so are your parents helping you?

Yeah, some of it, of course. But the reason why I chose here at this place also because I got discount. Yeah, not bad, but still expensive.

Wow, that's so interesting though, for like to see the motivation that you have to want. And then so do you feel like you're going to be doing work within your degree or you're— are you going to get the degree and have it but not necessarily use what you've learned?

So what I have with me right now, I'm certified lawyer, I'm certified notary service, so I can do that. However, it's only eligible in Thailand. So the plan is to be able to work anywhere, location freedom. That's long-term goal, like ultimate life goal. Of course, I'm millennial, one of the millennial entrepreneurs, you can say. So apart from living outside, like living in another country, there is some like visa condition that have to concern. Um, along the way, I would like to have my business settled, which still ongoing. I'm still a startup period even though it's about 3 years already. And yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, of course I would like my business to be automated and I'm able to work anywhere. However, I would need some stability to be able to live aboard as well. So still don't know yet in the future. However, that is my income at the point, at this point.

Wow. Wait, I never heard of that word, location freedom.

Freedom.

And that is, that's a terminology, location freedom, the freedom to go anywhere.

Yeah. I mean, why not? Right. But of course, like for example, your passport can enter many countries without visa for tourists and so on. Me, on the other hand, I think it's limited to like 30+ countries. So other than that, I need visa. And how to get visa? I need bank statement, right? And also the location that I based on. Then combine these two, this is what I'm trying to get there.

Wow. How, like, okay, so do you have, do you have brothers and sisters?

I'm an only child, unfortunately.

I mean, this is so interesting. And were you always so ambitious as a young young girl, when you were younger?

I am. So my parent has been teaching me to make decisions since I was very young. Like either this or this, or something that I have to do it myself. So we have mainly 3 roles that we like strict on. Number 1, I have to make decision on myself, like I have to make my own decision. 2, I have to respect that and surrender to the outcome, let's say. And whatever happened is my choice. Then the third one is that if they have found that I couldn't like continue doing that anymore, they would jump in without asking anything. So that is the— some kind of the rules that I have been growing up with.

Okay, Mutina, that— those are beautiful rules. Tell me about your parents. Tell me about parents that think that way. And are they— how old are they, first of all?

Um, oh, I don't know how old my parents are. I'm so sorry.

No, that's cute. Is that because—

I remember—

age? Sorry, is it because you don't discuss age, or do they like, like that? So is that part of, um, like culture not to discuss age, or you just—

no, I just don't remember. It's maybe my, my bad. I only know that my dad already retired. I really don't know how old they are. But my mom's still working. So both of them are military officers.

Oh, they are? Wow, wow. And they— and did they meet in the military and fall in love?

Yes, but what I know is not that easy, like, because my grandfather also like one of the military officers as well. So you can say that I'm from the military family somehow, and I think my dad work with my grandpa maybe, and he just met my mom somehow. I really not sure. They're not telling me this story at all. We not talk about— yeah, we not really talk about, um, their relationship or like work. They really talk about me mainly.

Oh, because they love you. That's so sweet. But yet, do you feel like now that I'm questioning you and asking you, do you feel like you at one point want to ask them these questions to kind of know their life story?

But like, they're not gonna sit down and tell me the whole story. So that is the strange thing of my family. Like, well, I can say I, I didn't have somehow that like having a dinner at the same time every day because when I was younger, my dad and my mom didn't work at the same place. And I stay mainly with my grandparents mostly. So Asian family, you know, like I just like based in Bangkok and sometimes visit my dad in like Prachuap Khiri Khan or Hua Hin. I don't know whoever your audience might know or might not know, but that's my hometown actually. So yeah, I was born next to the beach somehow, so beach girl. I love it.

Oh, that's so nice. It is fun for all of us to hear stories and to meet someone that, you know, that grew up in Thailand and then hear your motivation and, and what your plans are, which is really fantastic. So, so how do you love that? It's like, do you love Belfast? Is it everything that you wanted it to be? No.

Oh, this is quite long story though. So I, um, At the time that I quit my job, one part of one reason, it was that I got sick. Like, it was so stressful, and my parents asked me to quit somehow. So they said, since I'm going to quit my job, why not I'm like pursue my master degree? So research, like, we have done the research, of course, before I quit the job, like 2 years earlier or 3 years earlier. Which country I'm gonna go, like any scholarship available, of course, if— why not, right? And yeah, so I, I just know that I want to study human rights and criminal justice to relate to my previous job. I work in international organizations. Um, so yeah, and I would like to pursue LLM because I already have LLB. Why not? Like, I don't want to change the life or something. But I also interested to have my own business because I found that the job itself didn't cause me any stress or any problem, but the organization.

Interesting.

Yeah, so I just tell myself that whatever I'm gonna work further on, I'm not gonna do the same thing again. I'm not gonna be in the position that other people can force me to do things, like put pressure on me, and I couldn't manage things like the way that it should be and have everyone happy to work with me at the same time. Here's the scenario: when I was doing internship with this job, all of my colleagues came to work very early, like 6 AM, 7 AM. In the morning, and they won't leave until that's all done. Time passed by, I got the position, so I changed from— I transferred from intern to the real employee. Then not only me, but everyone around me changed the way they work, changed the way their behavior, and it's definitely because of the way that organization formed the new policy change, the everything affect. Like, have you ever heard like PESTEL? Like policy, economic, legal, everything combined change everyone and the way we work. And the workplace not a fun place anymore, like when we were internship. Yeah, and it's getting worse and worse. Some people leave because they got a better position. Some people remain until today, many still remains, but I know it has been changed in the past years because I have been there and I'm the one who left, you know.

This is so interesting. So really, because you want, you don't wanna just work, you wanna enjoy life and not have to feel the stress and love what you're doing. You wanna have the passion in what you're doing. Yeah, that is a dream for all of us, like, to really to do that. But yet you're really— that is your goal. It sounds like you're not going to— you don't want to do anything but what you really will enjoy and be passionate about. And so what is that though? What exactly are you doing for work now? How are you, um, affording to go to school? What is your— what is your career path?

Oh, I paid all the school tuition fee already, so I didn't like have to pay them still, of course. If not, they wouldn't extend my visa, if you know that. You know, international students, they have— I have to pay earlier before I get visa. So that's one of the conditions. Okay, I wouldn't talk bad about that.

Are your grades one of the— but do you— so you pay, but do you also have to show that you have great grades? What happens with your grades?

No, it's not involved by the grades, but I have to pass. So I have to finish the, the course, of course. If not my money gonna become water. That's what I paid, but they just grant me the visa since I paid just that. That's the only condition, so the rest would be my own responsibility.

Yeah, got it.

Um, if you ask me, I believe in hard working, but how to feel self-motivated and doing the thing that you love every single day— I mean, it's not only what you do, it's also who you do with. Like your environment as well, like what we interview, like what you tell about the behavior within the environment of the workplace, right? Everything combined, like, to be who you are, because you will change by time and by people that you're surrounded with. And that is my passion, like I want to build the workplace that anyone wants to wake up and come to work. Because at the end of the day, you have to work. Without working, how can you earn? It's like the majority of your life, you have to work at something.

I love that. So what do you think could really hurt? Okay, so let's talk about leadership skills and what's important. So you said, so the policies, so everything kind of came down crashing. They had the policies, the economics, the whole thing crashed. And some people stayed and were able to handle it, and other people didn't like the culture. It sounds like it was a culture issue.

I, I believe so. And it's also because it's the bureaucratic— that's why the assignment and like sovereign somehow is quite strong. And my previous workplace are very high in confidentiality, so the headquarters have to be involved and the is involved internationally. It's not only based in Thailand. Therefore, everything matters. Like every scenario that happened, like COVID and everything.

Oh no, wait. Oh no, oh no, we got you froze. That's why you don't use this program anymore. Wait a second, Bettina. Okay, I want to make sure you come back. Come back, Bettina. I'm gonna— let's see, I'm gonna go out and have you come back. Come right back in. I'm gonna remove her and then I'm gonna tell her to come right back in.

Come, come back in.

Come back in. Come back in. Oh, everyone, isn't this the technology life? I don't know if I could— oh good, she's back.

No, no, I don't think it's you. I think that this is the reason why you are, um, not using this program anymore.

I mean, what happened? I'm so sorry. Where I was—

you were— you froze. Oh, and I thought, see, it's probably this program. I'll take care of it.

Where I was talking about— I'm sorry.

No, no, no, no, no.

But what—

no, it was interesting because we're talking actually about when you were saying how it's an international company and what was taking place. But I'm— I want to actually hear from you. What do you feel makes the best for leadership? What do you feel like for a company, if you were going to be the leader of a company and you're going to run your own company, which you will, what are some of the things that you would do to make sure that everyone would be motivated enough to want to come to—

oh no, no, Eli, I'm not going to recommend you, I'm not going to, because you're not in the program. The best. So send in your programs. I'll be right back and come back in. Come back in. Come back in. And hope that she comes back in. Let's get her on my handy Facebook page right here and see. Oh, there she is.

So interesting.

Okay, let me put her in the stream.

Okay. Oh, okay, beautiful. She's coming in. Okay, beautiful.

I'm so sorry. Suddenly my camera was gone. Like, I haven't touched anything though.

I think it's my end. So, okay, so what do you think would be great for— well, how would you run a business to have it be a business that everyone would love to go to work?

Here you are right now. I have a team, right? And I listen to all of my team members. Like, they reach out to me. I'm not reaching out to them every morning. Like, we have the workflow that I have no need to ask, but they will tell me what they want and what actually better to work forward. Because at the end of the day, I cannot do everything on my own. And that would be somehow the operation system that I prefer to work and how I help my clients to create back office.

So, so let me see if I understand this, because I think I believe this too. I believe that leaders should have an open door and so that they can feel comfortable coming in and making suggestions and discussing the day and being able to communicate. And communication is a two-way street. Not just my telling someone something, but that they have the ability. And so what you're finding is your team is coming to you. And so because you have an open door, per se.

Yeah. And I'm the listener, let's say. So I'm open for any change, any adjustment. I have already given them the foundation, what I want and what I would like to see. But if they want to show their skills, skill, that's great. That's how things improve, right? Because I don't know. Yeah, that's— that would be somehow of my leadership. I talk to them like really deep talk, like coaching, like training. Um, the way I talk to them, I encourage them to do better. And I think that's important because you don't want to do the same thing every single day. It's not challenging. I think humans like to be challenged somehow, a little bit. Not to be stressed, but like just a game. It's fun.

I think you're right. I think when I look back at some of the leaders I've had, what I think of is a particular leader that I had that was always talking about themselves. Every story was a story that had to get them in the seat of the story and what they did great and how they are. Listening was very small, communication was almost zero. And then when you did communicate with this leader, I don't even know if I want to call them a leader, but, or them a leader, a manager, but the leadership style was very much all about them.

Yeah. I mean, I believe that every figure, every stakeholder within the business have to be a leader within themselves because they have to lead themselves first before they're able to lead others. That's somehow the mentality that I want them to do. And whoever asked me how my team's like, I can tell because I evaluate all of them. What are they good at? What are they bad at? Like, I do recruit and I do evaluate their skill like every month and so on, like how their performance, check in every week. So I really get to know them personally and professionally. And that's how you enjoy, because you get to connect and grow together.

So I had a leader also one time that would always take certain people and put them on a pedestal. So as a leadership style, they would be— if there were 10, 10 people, employees in the room, 2 of them would be the one that was always talked about and the one that everyone was like the best of everything and, and did everything correctly. And It was awkward for everyone too because everyone was like, oh, that's got to be weird to be the teacher's pet or the leadership pet, and never really made anyone feel good about themselves.

I bet you never—

that's a weird thing that everyone have the good skill to be like that. We can like compliment on, on daily basis. That's how people these days on the online will say celebrate the small wins, right? Because it makes us feel good. And when we celebrate together, seems like we're doing this together. We are all in and we can grow together further. We can scale further. We can make sales further unknowingly, but it's forced us to go in the same direction and stay on the same pace every single day.

I love that. I love that. I think that's amazing. Now, I would also say that real leaders are going to arise out with this COVID-19. Oh yeah, there are some leaders out there that are completely not believing what's going on, or, you know, feeling that it's not a big deal, have proudly said, you know, we're doing business as usual even though nobody else is. Uh, leaders that have, um, said, I don't want— don't wear any kind of mask, I don't want you to scare the clients, you know, like— and it sounds so crazy, but yet this is what's happening there, is that There's leaders that maybe don't read and know what's going on. When I say read, they're not up to date because you could easily get busy. You know, you're at work all day, you come home, you've got your family to take care of. Maybe you watch the news for 15 minutes and start all over again, but you're not really understanding how complex this is right now. And these are scary times that we have. What would you say?

I'm grateful that I'm still a student. I mean, I have work and I become a student. Well, I, I am a student again, and I use this studying skill with every single thing. I read the same way I read book for exam. I watched the tutorial, I watched the webinar, I watched any courses the same way I study in the lecture room. So it's treat me to be the learner on everything. It's so funny that I enter any interview room with a pen and paper. I note down their question and answer every single point. They said they have never faced someone like me, like note down the question of the interviewer, you know. So I'm a kind of person and I always learn, and I believe that at least if I have done something wrong or all the mistakes that I have done this would be the time that I can prove, because this is the real thing that I can say that, hey, I have online business and I make money from it. It might not be like skyrocket because I'm not there yet, but I, I have something coming in and I can survive and I can help others. Meanwhile, that there are many people struggling more than me You know, that's, that's more important than like I make a lot of money and I success. Success to me is that people who are my friends, who are my connection, like you, like we just met on like few weeks ago on our interview, who I connected, have a better life in our perspective. And what I can help on that, even I'm not that like surviving like high and floating But I'm okay, you know, and I think the big success once is enough for me.

Wow. Yeah, I love that. You're a listener, you're a learner, you're location-driven. Tell us, tell us. Okay, so you're doing the interviews. So we connected on one of the women helping women groups. Yeah, right, the women helping women entrepreneur groups. And there, just to let everyone know, there's lovely groups out there on Facebook and Even if you don't like social media and you don't want to share your food and your dinner and your baby pictures and your dog photos or pictures of yourself, there's, there's some real practical applications to learn through Facebook, through whether you're a subscription group or not, you know. And so both of us, Mutita and myself, are in Women Helping Women Entrepreneurs, and we go in there to see how we can help learn from each other, support each other. And maybe the groups don't always go the way we'd like them to go, or maybe they sometimes take a weird twist, but that's part of life too. And I saw Mutita had asked for some interviews. So tell us a little bit about what you're trying to gain doing the interviews. What is, what is that for you? What does that mean for you?

I would like to team up. I call it team up with the expert to get unstuck. So Get Unstuck is my program, and I always keen to learn from the expert who have already established their business. So how they survive on their time of like become the expert in reality, how they serve their clients or customer, how they survive right now as the retailer and they have to shut down. I ask of the perspective and it's the same like you interviewing me right now. It's very natural. You can say that. And I get to learn a lot and from you as well that do I understand it correctly? So far what I have learned in the past 27 years of my life currently, what I can do more better from who I interview. So I mean, interview other people are amazing and it's like reading another person's books, life books somehow in a short period of time.

It's really beautiful thing to do. And often you could be interviewing someone that hasn't even had the opportunity to do this. And so you're helping them to feel comfortable going on any kind of stream and being able to speak. And it's not so easy when you're looking at yourself. And I see my bangs are bothering me. But it is funny, I've been asked to do this like 3 years ago. Someone said, you should do this, you should do this. And I kept saying no, no, no, until it hit me that I want to show off the people that I know. I want to show off my friends. And I thought, well, this is a great way to do it. And it's candid. And so if my daughter comes out of the room, I'm not going to freak out. And if the dog poops and I gotta pick it up, I'm not gonna get upset. And once I said to myself, it's okay, it's real, and if I want to put on my hat and wear it, it's okay, then I feel better, you know. And, and, and it is what it is. That's why I'm doing the Candid. But I love talking to you, and it's a lot of work. I know I use Canva, and I want to— you know, you want everyone to feel comfortable. And, and, and then I download it to YouTube and creating a little channel so everyone because everyone does have tidbits. And if I had all the time in the world, I would take what you said. I mean, I love the whole idea of the location. Is that your term or is that really a term that's out there?

I think people talk about it a lot. Have you ever heard about laptop lifestyle? It's not different. It's just—

Oh, laptop lifestyle. I just heard that the other day.

Yeah, that's the same thing. I mean, the same idea of freedom, location freedom.

Now wait, so you're a millennial at 27?

I am 27.

And is that in the millennial— I get confused. Is that a millennial?

Isn't it?

I think so.

Yeah, I think so.

A 25-year-old. Yeah, I mean, I think that we— when you're older, sometimes you can look at that and say, oh, that's, you know, millennials, what do they know? But I think that you are the, the group that's teaching us I'm a baby boomer, so you're teaching us so much. And part of that is teaching us not only new terminology, but the idea that there is plenty of things that can be done while you're enjoying life and that you can— and you— and honestly, I know for me, and I know for you, we work harder than just going into an office from 8 to 5 or 9 to 5. Often when you're doing things, when you're working for yourself, it's not like your phone says, okay, stop working and you walk away, right? You've always got something to do.

Oh yeah, 100%. And of course I learn a lot from you as well, and that's how we connect, right? We learn. I love that.

So I'm gonna have another interview with Carmen, and Carmen's gonna come on, so I'm gonna just click her off. So I found out if I have someone join, then it becomes one big stream. I love talking to you. Thank you so much, and you're beautiful, by the way.

Thank you, same to you. I appreciate you for your time, and thank you for having me here.

Oh my gosh, I love it. Have a great rest of the day.

And see you. Bye-bye. Take care.

Bye-bye. Okay, I'm gonna close out just for a minute so that I can