Candid Conversation with host Adrienne Barker, MAS, sponsored by @PromoIndustry.Guru

But it's getting down to the 90s.

Oh my gosh. Hi everyone. We're talking live with Mr. Edwin Dearborn, who is the author of a series of books that seem really amazing. What is the title of your books?

One of them is called Power Branding Secrets, and I talk about how to build a brand in the digital era and get on Amazon. And then I have Three Degrees of Separation, which is about how to make connections through social media to the people, the type of people you really want to meet.

So that's so interesting to me because the reason why I started Candid Conversations was that I felt that there's so many— like, I have so many like-minded people. And you know how when you say to someone, hey Edwin, I wish you could meet my friend Dee, or, oh my God, you would love Hector. And so I thought, well, what if I actually found a way to introduce the people that I know to the people that I know off Facebook? And so the Candid Conversations began. And right now I think there's 10 other people that are actually doing it, um, in their communities now. And right here in Daytona Beach, Carmen, um, Ruiz is, is amazing, and she's doing a great job connecting with people. And it's fun to see that But that was the whole thing about this. So can you tell us more about this? This is exciting.

Yeah, well, you know, we live in a world that's kind of new to social media. It's only been around for 15 years. Now that may seem like a long time within one lifetime, but if you look at the span of human existence and our ability to communicate with each other from the Gutenberg press to the pamphlet being handed out by our forefathers in America, to the town crier, all the way to television, radio, and now the average human being with a $500 device can talk to the world.

We don't see you, but we hear you, or we were.

Okay.

I hear you. We hear you. That's a good thing.

But you could still hear me. Okay, great.

Yeah, yeah, keep going. You'll come back in.

So to prove my point, we've got this technology for only 15 years. My, my video shows up, then it doesn't. See, we're still in this new era of, of technology where we're still trying to figure out, will the technology work? Not only are we trying to figure out Well, will this darn app work for me to do my interviews? We're still trying to figure out how to successfully use it in a powerful way. So the technology is evolving and we're evolving with it, with our understanding of how to properly use it.

It makes so much sense to me. What— and like, there's, there's no question. And then, of course, with so many people, the whole technology end of the bandwidths and can everyone really go on all around the world? Actually, I've had, I had a conversation with my son Sam in China. Sometimes that sounds like he's right around the corner and then I could be talking to someone in Daytona and they could sound like they're all the way in China. So it's, it's hard to tell. But when did you start writing this book? When did you author the book?

First book that I authored was about 5 years ago. I had been working in digital media from the very beginning. I worked for a website company. Back in 2005, 2006, right when Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube were emerging. And I intuitively knew, along with my partner who was, you know, really getting deep into websites and affiliate marketing, which was really big back then, um, was, okay, this is going to be the next step. Now we're turning websites really into media centers. So instead of having a radio show, you have a podcast. Instead of a TV show, you have a YouTube channel. Instead of a newspaper, you have a blog. And I just saw the natural evolution of where everything was going to go electronic. And the digital citizen could now have an equal opportunity. And look today, YouTube celebrities are bigger than Hollywood celebrities.

What is that? I know, that's crazy. Or is it not crazy?

Yeah, YouTube is the new Hollywood. Spotify is the new Nashville. I mean, we're now— Justin Bieber was discovered on a YouTube video. So see, the whole— our whole system of how we create celebrities and how we disseminate information and propagate our views has completely changed where— and this has become such an issue that Congress is now taking up on it. President Trump is now signing paperwork about it because we're like, wow, this is all new, this Facebook and censoring and who can say what. And, you know, this is all new territory even for our government. I'm not going to get political, but I'm just saying that it's become such an issue that it's reached the White House.

Actually, I'm glad you asked. This is not political, actually, that we're talking about what is going on. I'm going to be honest with you, I don't understand it. Can you, can you explain it in layman's terms exactly what, uh, President Trump is looking to do and what that ramifications means? Because I really don't understand it.

Well, in basically, it's a, it's a form of censorship, meaning that if I publish my YouTube video with my views and YouTube feels that they violate their standards, then they take my video down. Well, the question is, are their standards politically motivated? Are their standards based on opinions that, that it doesn't align with theirs? So now we're being censored because we're not aligning ourselves with the new Big Brother. Big Brother goes, well, we don't like that view, so we're taking it down, or That's counter to what science says, so we're taking it down. Whereas the whole concept of social media is that I have a platform and I'm not going to be censored because I don't agree with Mark Zuckerberg about blah blah or this view or that view. Or Jack Dorsey of Twitter, you know, maybe Jack Dorsey leans one way politically, I lean another. So Jack says, okay, here's our new policy, here's our quote unquote community standards. If they have these views, which I don't agree with, then we're going to take them down or we're going to squash them with algorithms. The idea is that the— whether it's right or wrong, I'm just saying what's occurring. I'm not going to add my views to this, but that you and I, whether our views agree with the authorities or not, should be allowed to be presented. Now, of course, everybody agrees that we don't want to show, you know, people committing obvious crimes, you know, crimes against children or the planet or against animals or other people. That's— that makes common sense to people. But when it becomes like, here's my opinion about this or about that, and that opinion doesn't agree they've tended to squash them. So people are getting frustrated because they don't feel like they can freely communicate about what they're saying. Apologize that I've got a moving truck. My neighbor is backing up their truck here.

So that's awesome. This is real life. It's real life. My dog is walking around and I'm like, don't pee, Pickles. I'm a senior mom to a senior dog, so I kind of keep an eye on him. So You don't see me, but I'm kind of looking at the pickles. So this is— these are crazy times. And the other thing that's happening right now that we're right in the middle of is people using, um, social media and video to record things that maybe they shouldn't be recording. Do you know, it's weird, like, we don't have— there's no privacy. So I try to make sure if I'm recording something, I get the behind, like the back of people's heads, because that's— that it feels awkward that you could be somewhere at the beach and, and record people without their knowledge.

Yeah, I mean, like I said, we're entering strange times. We're crossing territory we've never crossed before. An individual has never been able to take his phone, which is factually— our phone has more computer power than all the computers that launched Apollo 13 40 years ago. Your laptop actually has the same electronic power as you see those big rooms in Houston when you'd see 50 guys in white shirts and little black ties watching the big rocket.

Yeah.

Computer power now exists in a very powerful one laptop. So we've condensed down these mega television cameras that you would see on the Johnny Carson Show 40 years ago is now in a camera the size of a coffee cup. And we're distributing them to millions of people that haven't had training in media. They haven't had training in press etiquette. And so it's just, it's like, it's craziness on fire.

It is craziness on fire.

It exploded so fast that it caught caught everybody, including the government, by surprise. It caught Facebook by surprise. If you'd asked Facebook or Twitter or YouTube 10 years ago that they would be this big and this powerful, making this much money, it would have never been real to them. They are even surprised by their growth and impact on society. So I just tell everybody, look, we've got a couple fast-moving targets. The first fast-moving target is the technology. It's, it's just growing and growing and growing by leaps and bounds and will continue to do so. So that requires us to understand that, that path and that entity called technology. The second entity is human beings interacting with it. What will they do with it? You know, if I give you a baseball bat, are you going to hit home runs? Or are you going to loot and hit people over the head? So we give these tools out to people. What the heck are they doing with it? That's the other thing that we have to be aware of as a marketer and a brander. I have to watch these two. You know, I tell everybody that I consult, I go, we've got two fast-moving entities: technology, always evolving. What are people doing with it? Oh my gosh, they're going crazy with it. And I got to somehow manage those two factors in building a brand online.

That is so interesting. I have to share with you, so my first, um, my, my first time really using the video was, uh, with MySpace, was when my son was in Afghanistan in 2000. And I think I want to say '07 or '08, and there was no Facebook, or that Facebook was for the colleges if I'm correct. And we were on MySpace. It was amazing that I could talk to Alex in Afghanistan. He could give me a little bit of a tour and I could meet his translator. I thought all of that was so phenomenal. That really kind of changed me and made me appreciate what we had available. I think I definitely felt a lot of love for the program because I was able to see my son. And then slowly, I remember the government had said to stop it because I think information was being given or other people were watching, and maybe you could see more than what I would be seeing, as my eyes are just focused on my child and not behind him or anything like that. Um, but anyways, and then now, so, you know, it's funny, so I belong to a board. I belong to a few boards, but one of the boards I belong to is fairly new. She just started, wonderful woman, Maria Davila, uh, Davila with Healthy Souls International. And we were talking about like being careful and how board members have to be careful. And, you know, when you're wearing something, I remember a couple of years ago there was a riot going on and someone was wearing the Verizon golf shirt. And whether they work for Verizon or they got it at a thrift shop, it really didn't matter at that time because all that matters, people saw someone that was from Verizon, then it got the attention of the Verizon CEO who said, I'm going to get down to the bottom of it and find out who that employee was. I never did hear the ending of it because my mind went to like, it absolutely may not be an employee because anyone could get, you know, clothing that's sometimes branded. And that's what I do for business, Edwin. I am a— I've been 37 years of the logo merchandise promotional products, and I am powered by Halo Branded Solutions, the second largest distributor in the United States. So This is really interesting to me. And that's part of what you're talking about, right? How a brand can really be presented on social media. If you have someone on social media doing something that's so wrong and they're wearing a hat or something with your brand, what can that do to the company?

Exactly. This is why companies have to develop a social media policy and program Have people educated on it, have people sign off on it, so if they violate it, they go, look, we published our rules, our rules were gone over by a legal team, they were legally compliant, we have the record that we trained our employee in on our social media rules, and he signed off that he understood the rules. Look, mistakes are going to happen, and you're going to have factions within any group, whether it's political, religious, community-based, it doesn't matter. You're going to have 2 or 3%, they're going to go rogue and just do things that you don't want them to do. You can't control that because what we're trying to do is control human behavior and morality, and you can't mandate or regulate human morality. We've tried that for thousands of years and it's always gone wrong. What you can do, though, as a brand to make yourself legally compliant and as secure as possible is take the proactive approach of developing a social media and content policy. Train your employees on it, whether it be through a webinar, have speakers come on, have manuals, whether they're downloadable or physical manuals, train them in on it, give them training videos, and then have them sign off on it, either, you know, with wet ink or electronically. And now you've done your due diligence. And now if you ever do get sued or if you do have a public flap, you can say, look, yes, our employee did this while making our hamburger, but we put every single employee through a training program. He signed off on it. He was aware of it. So he went rogue. No one's gonna fault the brand for that because they're gonna go, okay, so it's still a publicity flap, but they were transparent about what they are doing to prevent this. And the employee went through the program, he signed off on it. So now we're not going to blame the brand. We can see that the brand, you know, took the responsibility that they, you know, that they were supposed to, and that really it was the individual that was at fault. The individual can't go, well, I didn't know.

Yeah, you did. Well, so we've just— we're witnessing this right now. The woman in the park who was immediately let go from the video, immediately let go. And then there's also another man in a shared office space from that great company called WeWork. I think they do a great job with their shared office space. And, you know, like people like right now feel like they're the, you know, they're the cops of the road, you know, do you belong here? Like, who are we to ever ask anyone? I can't, and then he was let go too and then also lost his lease. And I think that's brilliant. I just don't understand what's going on in someone's mind. And, you know, I teach corporate etiquette and try to teach everyday etiquette. How do you not know what you're doing wrong? Or that if someone's got a video camera, wouldn't that immediately stop you? And yet, and wouldn't they realize that they're now risking their position unless they're the owner of the company, then they risk their brand. But if they work for a company, the man was from a CEO company, why wouldn't you realize that at the time? That you are risking your career?

Because the lizard brain puts us in a reactive mode. It takes over. You know, again, we're coming down to a deep issue, which is why are people aberrated? Why do they do crazy things when logic would dictate otherwise?

Right.

So we're dealing with another problem other than just social media. We're dealing with a human mind problem. We're dealing with a morality problem that religionists, churches, philosophers, poets, and writers have struggled with for as long as man has been man. So that's a whole other, you know, that's a whole other issue.

Yeah. I guess I want answers.

For—

so as far as selling goes, so you, so you also wrote the book on the, uh, on selling, right? So tell me a little bit about that because I, I am a salesperson, but I'm— and I love selling and I, and I understand how to do it, but I don't— and that's— I don't love picking up the phone to sell, but I think because I feel like so many people do it wrong and— or so many people are picking up the phone or how they're selling that I don't want to be that person, and I think that's holding me back.

Yeah, well, phone sales is a whole other beast, and I know people that run call centers. All I can tell you is if you use the phone, don't be that other person. Use your etiquette, separate yourself, and just be yourself and engage in conversation versus trying to pitch. The public, the audience has become very intelligent about marketing tactics. What most brands don't realize is potential customers are a lot smarter than we think they are. They're very savvy to our tricks. They're very savvy to the methods that we try to do to suck them into our sales funnel. I think the real, the real unlock for success is to be transparent, fully transparent. You know, if I was McDonald's going, look, we don't make healthy burgers, We just make tasty burgers for people who like McDonald's. We never tried to be healthy. People are like, okay, at least they're owning it. Yes, we use bad oils, but it makes the fries taste amazing. So, right, so people go, at least they're owning who they are, versus, well, we're trying to make a healthy burger. No, you're not. Stop lying to us. Just tell us how you make the burger, then we can have a choice. And if we still like it, we'll still buy it. I think brands have a hard time understanding that the consumer today has got so many options and they got so many ways to investigate you that if you're lying, they're eventually going to find out. They're eventually going to find out if you're scamming them. It's just a matter of time today. So what I would suggest to sell is I would be putting out content that answers people's questions, that shows people the behind the scenes of how you make your burger or how you make your promotional products. I would also show success stories or testimonials of people who use your promotional products and what's happened as a result from it. And I would just continue to use that through podcasts and videos, distribute that broadly to your ideal audiences. They'll evaluate the information, and the law of attraction, you'll attract your tribe if you distribute, you know. And that's— it's not just a matter of creating the content. I think creating content is a third of the battle. Like, we're going to create a podcast, we're creating content right now, but will people listen to it? Now we have spent two-thirds of our effort to distribute it through email and social media and maybe even paid ads and through strategic partnerships. Without this podcast being listened to, it has no value. So I've got to put just as much or not more attention on distribution. If we create and distribute engaging, on-point, interesting how-to content, people are going to find this. That's how people find me. Like, hey, I've been following you on Facebook, or I've been following you on YouTube, or I see your post on LinkedIn. I've been, you know, I get your emails. I've been reading your stuff. I'd like to sit down and talk with you. In fact, today at 12:30 in the afternoon, I had a lady that I talked to about 2 years ago. I put her in my email database, and every week or two I send out an article about what I'm doing with marketing or how-to tips. And she said this one article resonated with her and she wants to figure out how I can be their digital chief marketing officer for their orthodontics group up in the San Francisco Bay Area. That, I mean, that could be a lucrative contract that could make me six figures. But that came about by what? I put her in my database, I distributed content, and it took probably 50 or 60 touchpoints seeing me on Facebook, seeing my emails again on Facebook, emails over and over and over. And she finally said, you know what, I can see, it's transparent to me that you have the skill sets and the knowledge to do the things that we've been looking to do.

See, I love that.

Yeah, yeah, we've become— a lot of salespeople have got a hunter mentality. They gotta hunt and kill and eat now. And they don't have a farmer mentality, which is plant seeds. You can do both, but if you don't start farming and nurturing that orchard of prospects, then it's never going to bear fruit.

So interesting. So actually, my son, I have a son in Shanghai, China, who is Sam. It's my son Sam, and he has a company called Set For Set, S-E-T-F-O-R-S-E-T. What I love about Sam is that he He took, you know, almost a year to investigate what product it was gonna be. He sells maces, steel maces, that for like a warrior unconventional workout. But watching him and seeing that he's doing everything correctly, he's putting out great content, he did a great ebook, he's consistently giving out great exercises, he's sharing other people's exercises, he's including them on his platform, he's doing all different ages and looks and, and, and women and men and like the whole thing. So it's really— he's doing a great job. And then I'm curious about what you think about a lot of— well, I see that— I, I see this on Facebook a lot where there's a class, you could be a social media expert, and, you know, pay me $1,000 and take this class. And then I see where women will be talking to other women and they'll say, oh, I— my client asked me to do this, I don't know how to do it. And someone will say, well, just watch it on YouTube and figure it out. And I'm thinking, oh my gosh, like you're putting all— you know, you hear those stories of people spending not six figures, but spending money that they have, that the hard-earned money, thinking they're hiring someone that really knows what they're doing. And they're not because they're kind of being like fooled. Am I wrong in thinking this? Because I do see it, but I'm not sure sometimes if I'm being too judgmental about it?

No, no, you're not being judgmental. I, I call it voodoo. Yes, there's a lot of people out there that sell voodoo. They sell magic potions and snake oil, and they go, I'm gonna post things on social media for you. You're like— and what they're doing is, is they're taking advantage of people's ignorance. Yeah, uh, this is a new phenomenon in, in our in our lifetime. What I tell business people that have been bamboozled and sold voodoo, as I said, all they did— excuse me— was take advantage of your ignorance. It's time you start educating yourself enough so that you know that when you're hiring someone, you're hiring a genuine expert. I don't expect you to be an expert, but look, Read some books, watch some YouTube videos, take some classes yourself, understand modern practices. This is not a crazy request of a business person. Understand your business, understand how to market your business, understand it enough to be able to delegate it to people you know that truly know what they do.

I need to take that clip of what you just said. So, Edwin, I was born to— my parents were born to born— my mom and dad were, um, business entrepreneurs. They married at a fairly young age. My mom was out of college. My dad was, uh, worked in his father's grocery store, and they grew a business together. And one of the things that I realized a few years ago, as my father had his secretary start doing business, was that she wasn't following what my father did. And I had a conversation with her, and I said that to her. I said, you know, my parents, if they hired a roofer, they would know enough about the roof that they, they knew if the job was being done correctly or not. And my dad at 90 understood enough about social media to know and understand how to make sure it was being done enough. And I, I always felt— and if she's listening now, I say very freely that you, in order to run a business, you have— you can't be like— not— and it's not a trust matter, it's knowing yourself. If I want to Oh, for, okay, for instance, I'll just like put it to today. I'm curious about, everyone's talking about contact tracing, right? Well, I'm taking a course on it. That doesn't mean I'm gonna be a contact tracer, who knows, but I wanna know enough. I wanna know what that really means. I wanna understand it. So, you know, I don't really know what census does. So I'm gonna work for the census for a few hours so I can understand what that is. Like, if there's something that I need, I wanna understand it. Enough to do it. If I was going to hire someone to do a sales funnel, which I'm not, but if I was, I would know enough that I possibly could do it myself, even though it wouldn't be that great. So I really love what you said because I think so many people don't understand that. And I think my parents— they both are gone now— but I think they understood it without putting it into, um, into the words. They just knew enough that they had to do it. That's how you run a business. That's how you do your life, is you know enough so that you're not I guess bamboozled. I don't like to be negative, but you have— so thank you. I think that is excellent advice. Oh, you have some quotes too. I saw some quotes. Do you have a quote on that one?

I don't have a quote on that one, but I could, you know, yeah, do it. I just added the video if we want to.

It's a great tip. It's a great tip. I think it's like something that people really truly don't think about because you, you're, you know, you're going to have a professional, but when I hired security, when I had security in my art gallery, I opened up my father's art gallery, his Fifth Art Gallery in Daytona Beach, you know, I didn't just call in the security, I had to find out enough to understand what security meant and then to even understand what it was like to have security. And I will tell you, my dad and I argued a little bit because he would watch the camera live and what he watched sometimes and what I was doing in real life, like talking to a customer, there was no volume, there was no audio, was often sometimes like not the same. Like he'd say, that person walked in and you didn't hand them a flyer. Well, he didn't really know that the person said, I don't really want a flyer, you know, that I would have asked because I won't just hand something. I would have had a conversation. May I hand you a flyer? And so it was interesting that my dad was like missing that piece of it because he's only one seeing that one side. But I understood, wow, this is what happens. You really only— so if I was watching my customer, my salespeople on the camera, I then knew Oh, I can't be so quick to be judgmental because even though I'm watching it, I'm not hearing it because it wasn't audio. But anyways, I love, I love that you said that. Actually, I love all your tips. And I do feel, I have said before, I am very open. If you write to me and if you, if you want to sell me, and part of what I did when I had my office in Celebration, Florida, most of the clients that I had and many of my friends came in on a cold call and I told the receptionist, Gertie, you, you bother me. I don't— when I say I have an open door, I mean bother me. I want to know who's coming in. I want to know and meet the person because I, one, I can learn from them. So a lot of them had great sales techniques that I loved that I was like, oh, I could copy that. And then some of them was just fun to see what it's like to go door to door. So I would recommend that too to people is be on the other side of a salesperson, be open. Do you— what do you think about that?

Yeah, I think, look, to elevate your game in any area of business, you've got to learn. You've got to be a consistent student of life. The moment we tell ourselves that we know everything, this is where we stop growing. I don't think that there's not a day that goes by where I'm not reading something out of a book, or watching a YouTube video, or listening to a podcast, or sitting down with someone who's smarter than me and trying to pick up something new about something. I don't care what area of life you are concerned with. I guarantee you there's an author or a blogger or a writer or somebody or a mentor out there that has probably figured out that problem. Not— maybe not in every case, but I would say 98%. I can type in, you know, when people go, well, how do I do blah? I go, I want you to write down your exact question as you have it in your head, type it in the search bar on YouTube, and I guarantee you someone's answering that very question that's in your head.

Yes, you're right, you're right. And then And then to blog about it, do you get into like the specifics of using the keywords and all of that, or just blog from your heart?

You know, I tell people, give it all away. 95% of the people, you know what they're going to do when you give it all away? They're going to go, this is too complicated. I'm just going to have him do it. Yeah, some people will take your tips and run with it and not pay you. The vast majority, if you write detailed content or you give all the secrets away, Most people are going to go, wow, that sounds complicated. But since he's giving all the secrets away, he must understand the secrets. So why don't we just hire him to deploy the secrets for us?

I love you, Edward Dearborn. I, I, I'm just so disappointed I can't watch you give— you're like, you're liquid gold right now. What you're saying are words that really, they, they resonate a lot with me because I, I honestly, I do agree with you. I'm 57 years old, but I will tell you, I did— I wish I had this information in my 30s. It would have changed every direction of the course that I would take in, you know, selling and in life. I— what I do is, if, you know, when I go somewhere and someone comes up to me and, you know, do you have a dog? Because I, I sell— I have a pet sitting business, or whatever it is, that they're so focused on themselves I listen politely and then I think to myself, don't be that person, Adrienne. No matter what you do, just don't be that person. So I take everything and, you know, I teach corporate etiquette. I always got to be nice, but I, I don't mind learning the thing, the ways. Sometimes I think we learn the things not to do from, from actually watching people and knowing what not to do. And I've just said to myself, you know, I go to these events and I go to networking events and it's not about me. I just happy to walk away with one friend. I don't need to collect everyone's business card. That's awkward too, by the way, when people, when you're sitting there and someone comes around to each table and ask you for their business card and they're usually younger and they're usually, you know, that they just need it so that they could take to their supervisor to show them that they've been around. But I would, I'm always like, I'd like to tell the supervisors what not to do. Do you have any, can you give some advice to the supervisors that's sending a young salesperson out there? That and says, touch everyone and talk to everyone you know, tell them what you're selling, and, and get their business card so I can put it in my system.

It— look, you know, trying to teach a young kid, he's under pressure, that young kid. And the supervisor is usually— he's under pressure from a more senior supervisor, and they run a bureaucracy that dictates that this is what you do. This is what we've always done. Just do this. Don't ask questions. Don't question authority. This is bureaucracy. This is like going to the DMV and trying to point out how inefficient they are, and they're not going to listen. They're not going to listen. They're going to go, well, this is how we ran the DMV for 30 years. It— you know, bureaucracies are slow to change. They resent new ideas. So you have to, you know, I just, I shrug those people off and I'm looking for the people that want to innovate. That's the people that look around them and they go, whoa, the world is changing. And if we don't change with it, we're going to become the dodo bird and eventually in the museum as a species that used to exist. And just take a look, Sears is gone, JCPenney is going, Toys R Us is gone, Blockbuster is gone. 20 years ago, every one of these corporations was worth tens, if not hundreds of millions of dollars. If you had told Sears 20 years ago, you know, your brand that's been 100 years old and it's worth hundreds of millions of dollars, you're going to be extinct within 20 years. No way. There's always been a Sears. There'll always be a Sears. Well, because they didn't adapt like Amazon, right? They didn't see Target and Walmart coming. And when they did, they just hunkered down into their old mindset, their old habits, passing out business cards like they've been doing for 100 years, put, you know, mailing out those big expensive catalogs, not going online like they, they did for 100 years. Thinking, well, this is the Sears way, and the Sears way worked for a while, but they didn't adapt. This is, this is the Achilles heel. If, if, if it, if that Achilles heel can bring down multi-million dollar brands, then can it bring down the little mom-and-pop shop down the road? Absolutely. Can it destroy Industries, I keep telling realtors, I go, you're next on the block. Sooner or later, Amazon or Facebook is going to start a real estate company. And because they've got the database and they're going to start selling homes online and they're going to take all the business away from Trulia and Zillow and from realtors and Century 21, and you're going to be out of a job in about 10 years unless you adapt real fast and start building your brand. As a niche expert within real estate. And they go, oh no, no, no, no, real— Century 21's been around for 80 years. Okay, I'm just telling you, they're coming after you. They're cut because they got to keep growing. So they're going to look at, go, okay, well, what else can we sell? Oh, we don't sell insurance, we don't sell cars, we don't sell real estate, we don't— eventually Amazon is going to want to sell you Everything.

You are so right. We, and we see it in our, the promotional products industry. And, you know, the whole, the key is, is you're right, is to be an expert, to understand, to be able to offer more of the solutions, be a solution salesperson and not just, just selling product. And it's nice to see that there are some realtors that really, I have some friends here that are just really amazing and they, they that, you know, they're making sure that they're educated and understanding and you would want to do business with them. What about, but I want to ask this question, what about the milk? Cause I saw that on the news that the old-fashioned milk trucks are coming back.

Yeah, I think, I think, you know, what's going to happen and this is where to build a brand in the future. You've got to have something that's really high touch. With almost a bit of nostalgic relationship. See, the thing that Amazon will never be able to do is to build a personal relationship. And this is where the realtor can win. This is where the insurance broker, the investment guy, if he's like, I know a guy and he, you know, it's high touch and, you know, he spends time with me. And he helps me understand it versus just trying to sell me with the ease that Amazon offers. But instead of ease of speed, he gives me ease of mind. I'm involved in community. I think what's going to happen is, is we've become so distant, we've become so socially ostracized through digital means that these milk trucks almost kind of bring back a sense of humanity, a sense of human touch that we've lost over the last 10 to 15 years. You know, it's like, I'll pay for that extra milk just for the idea that I'm having someone come to my house. I know my milkman. The milk bottle is this thick glass. It feels good in my hand. For some reason, It makes me feel like a special human being. And I've got this special protocol in the morning of how I pour my milk in my coffee from my special milk bottle. And it's just that special moment in my life that I will— I'm willing to pay for.

Wow. Oh my gosh, I'm so sad this is coming to an end and that I can't even— I could talk to you for hours. When you said— when you asked me yesterday how long and I said 3 hours, I honestly could do 3 hours because I love just— I just love hearing what you're saying, and you have so many quotes that you— I'll post that. I found 4 online that I'll post that I love. But you're really— wow, you really are a great man. I hope— we have our big show in Las Vegas every year at the Mandalay Bay, so I think that we're having it this year. And Las Vegas has always been just a wonderful place for us to, to visit. What's it like being closed down?

It's strange because, you know, Vegas is a business convention city. People think it's, you know, gambling and this, but really what drives the economy and has for the last 30 years, it's not gambling, it's not vacationers, it's business conventions. Business conventions bring anywhere from 40,000 to 50,000 people per week. Amazing. Okay. We are the 7th busiest airport in the United States, the 27th busiest airport in the world. So when you shut that down, the convention, it just reverberates across everything, 'cause that is the bread and butter. The ancillary stuff is the restaurants and the gambling and the shows, but what drives the revenue is people coming in and getting those $300 a night hotels and spending, and spending $1,000 for the convention and then going golfing and then doing everything else that comes about when you bring business people in one place. And of course they get excited because they're in Las Vegas and it's got that whole era of Dean Martin and Frank Sinatra and Elvis and the bright lights. And, you know, people get caught up into that whole, you know, it's, it's, it becomes bigger than life when they arrive, right? You, you know what it's like to—

Oh, it's awesome. I lived at— First of all, I've been there my, I think since I was starting to go to industry shows, so probably maybe 20, 20, over 20 years of shows. And then I lived in Tucson, so it was like a 5-hour drive. So, so much fun to just drive into Las Vegas. It's just, it's, it's the best. It's the best place ever. I love it. And I've been so many— I've learned there. Oh yeah, it's It's great, but it's coming back, right? Are things starting to open?

It's starting to open. Yeah, I mean, they're gonna have to, otherwise— I mean, if they— if, if we don't open up— I mean, I live in Henderson technically, which is, you know, I'm like 7 miles from the Strip. So beautiful. But I just say Vegas because that's, that's what everybody understands, right? So the malls are opening up, lots of small shops are opening up, and, and I know that some of the hotels are opening up with like limited, you know, like 30% capacity and things like that.

So I'm going to follow you. So I've got you on LinkedIn with you. Facebook, I've got—

I don't—

I think I've got to connect with you correctly on Facebook. Twitter, I connected with you twice because I know it's weird because I have the, I have the promo industry.guru and then I have my professional global etiquette.

Okay.

And that is honestly, I just, I, I knew I wanted to change myself, and I'm a lifelong learner, and I realized that I was missing etiquette. I just didn't feel comfortable being out at dinners, especially in Las Vegas where you're out at these like 5-star restaurants, and I just wasn't feeling comfortable. And I noticed people around me weren't, so I said, I'm gonna go. Someone said, if you wanna, if you wanna teach something, learn it. So I said, okay. So I went to the Protocol School of Washington in Washington, D.C. The school and graduated. So I just love that. But that— I find that's more something that I could give, and I love that. And so I've been doing executive protocol in a virtual world. Actually, if you don't mind, I would love to ask you if you have any tips on what you would think for, uh, either everyday etiquette or virtual etiquette now that we're doing the Zoom calls for your brand, or just— no, just in general, just in general for anyone, because even if it's something that I've shared before before, that's okay. And then if it's something new, maybe I haven't.

So yeah, I think the general etiquette in social media is allow somebody to express their views, understand it, acknowledge it. You don't necessarily have to agree with them. You know, I see Joe Rogan, he does his shows and he brings people on that he definitely does not agree with, and they'll say something that goes against his grain. And Joe will go, hmm, interesting. So can you tell me how you came to that conclusion? He engages the person. He never said, I agree with you or I disagree with you. What he does is, hmm, okay, that's a viewpoint. That's a stance. Can you tell me how you came to that conclusion that that was the truth or that was the best way? And then he gets the person to explain it. And he may find a few things that he agrees with. Them. Yes, I agree with it. That is a social injustice, but I may not agree that that's the solution. So he finds common ground in small points, even though maybe the big point, the big picture, he doesn't agree with at all. I think if we learn to have that type of dialogue where we can find at least small points to agree on, then I think that's where etiquette is. We're allowing the person to express their views We're not necessarily countering them, but we're getting them to explain and then kind of dissecting where we agree and where we don't agree.

I love that. I— okay, so I think that that's a— that's blog-worthy. That's really great. Thank you. I'm going to— I may just write an article and then just, uh, contact you for some more quotes. That was really wonderful. Yeah, I love the way you just put that together. I don't really watch, um, Joe Rogan Um, but I, I used to watch him because I think he was the guy that did all the, um, reality work of workouts or doing something.

The comedian. He's also a host on UFC, the fighting, you know, the, the Ultimate Fighting, and then he's got a pass called The Joe Rogan Experience. I don't watch every, you know, there's a lot of shows on that he has that I don't agree with, with, you know, but again, I just like his style. I mean, I agree with all his views, but I just like his style of how he brings people into the loop. And even when he wholeheartedly disagrees with a view, he still has the etiquette, to use your word, to allow them to express it and find points of agreement while also sharing his points of maybe where he doesn't agree. But they're having a conversation.

Exactly. The respect— I love that. I think that that's— that is really important because when you— people are able to hide, either they actually have like a fake bot, or what I find is that people are going on— and this happened over the weekend, um, and it was a nice man. I mean, we shared a lot of the same people, and I just wrote him very nicely, and I just said, you know, I, I know you're a really nice man. I don't think that you meant your tone to sound like this. And— but it was, you know, just to let them know. I, I'm usually always writing like just to say you know, let's remember to be kind, you know, be kind online, or sometimes I will just send someone a message to say, I don't think you really meant to be what you, but how it sounded, because people represent their business. So people think, I think what's happening too is that people will think that maybe they see something on the local news coming through their Facebook feed and they say to themselves, oh, this is awful. And they write something really not nice. And then they move on with their day. And their clients— I honestly have thought to myself, I do not want to work with that person because of what they've written about something, and it's kind of showed an insight to the personality that personally I don't want to support in a way of their business. And so I think that we just all have to be careful. Don't be so quick to judge, and assumptions are made so quickly too. I mean, everyone's doing that second-back quarterbacking, and it's not good. But it's just not good for your own company. And by the way, that also affects a business because some people will say that they're employed by a company, and that's happened before too. And I remember a couple of years ago I called the company because I was kind of doing some research and I was like, this person, blah, blah, blah, did it. And I wanted to know how you felt about it. And they said, that person does not work for our company. So I think that some way, somehow, if you are a business and a brand, You need to go in and see who is claiming that they work for you and double-checking that because you could have someone really giving you a bad name without your even knowing it. And they don't, they're not even part of your company anyways.

Yeah. Again, you have to establish social media policies and protocol. And if somebody does violate it, you can show the world that, look, we were clear about our policies. We educated them on it. We informed our partners about it. They violated it, so we were ceasing the relationship. We see this all the time. You know, you see, you know, like NFL stars or NBA stars, they get caught with drugs or, you know, breaking the law somehow, and it's in their contract, hey, if you break the law, if you commit a felony, your contract is null and void. Here's our policies about you know, how to treat women, how to treat animals. Here's, here's the etiquette expected to be on the New England Patriots. So if a New England Patriot goes out and he gets in a bar fight and shoots somebody, they terminate his contract and they go, oh, this is bad reflection on the New England Patriots. You're like, nope, here's his contract. We were very clear with the man that we do not support these type of activities, if you engage him and your contract is terminated, then he's terminated. And yeah, maybe a little fallout for the team for a while, but then everybody understands, okay, of course the Patriots wouldn't support that type of behavior. And they were very clear with the player and the player was just crazy. So, you know, crazy guys are gone now.

Exactly. But okay, so my— but what if the person doesn't even work for the company? And, you know, I wrote an article about this. It's— and I don't know if people really understand what I'm trying to say, but If you're on Facebook, you can, you could lay claim that you work for a company when you don't even work for that company. And you could also be writing horrible posts and people read it and they go into your profile and they're like, oh, he works for JDS, you know, assisted living care. And then, but you don't. And so I think companies also have to look and see who's not working for them, but have listed. And so on Facebook, people, you can put that you're employed for a company that you may not be employed for.

And I think this happened, but in a world of transparency, that lie will soon be found out, you know what I mean? It'll, it'll, it'll come out in the wash that that person didn't work. So I mean, yeah, there's always crazy people, and, and I find that, you know, it, you know, if I've had somebody write something bad about me, you know, I can say I've never serviced that person as a client. Go ahead and contact them and find if they have ever had a contract with me. And you know what you're going to find? That they're just a crazy person. They're like, yeah, there are crazy people out there. It's so easy to dismiss if you really understand the landscape. So you just have to have intelligent programs and policies in place that deal with that. If you, if you know what's going to happen and you've got a proactive plan ready to respond, you'll mitigate those very easily.

So what I say is I think employers should look at their company online and double-check and see, do just so they have an idea of who is claiming that they work there when they don't. I would assume there's a way for them to check. But thank you so much for your time. I really love meeting you.

Oh, you too.

I'm sad I don't get to see your handsome face, but that's, uh, that's technology. All right, I'm gonna— when I, when I, I turn this into a YouTube video, and then I'm going to just— I want to make sure I have all of your connections, so I'll send that to you so I— so everyone can follow you too, because you are very educating, and that is really wonderful. So you're right, so you, you are— you preach what you teach, and I love that.

Yes, thank you so much, and thanks for having your wonderful show, and best of luck.

Thank you for asking. Oh my gosh, you— I'm honored. All right, so we're gonna stop the streaming now and