Metet Dylan Bost
Dylan Clayton Bost, an information architect, talks about his decade of inner work after his advertising agency collapsed and his addiction. His book The Seven Mirrors uses people who trigger us as mirrors to heal ourselves. He now runs SunnyHQ, a WordPress hosting company built around presence and alignment.
Chapters
And I woke up this morning looking good. Look at my bangs. Hi everyone, I'm talking about the bangs again. Okay, look who I have. Dylan Bost, Bost, and he's so handsome. He's the most photogenic man I've ever seen in my life. Wait till you see his website.
I'm—
we're going to go deep dive on your website, but as always, I have no clue who I am interviewing. I I did say, can I have like a couple of words? Because we are live on Chatter Social and streaming live on Facebook, LinkedIn, and YouTube. So, Dylan, Information Architect, what, who are you? What do you do? Introduce yourself.
You know, I love this question because I think it ties into some of the things I'm writing about in a book that I'm sure we'll discuss at some point. But, you know, I think that You know, for a long time, I believed that I was my story, right? I would believe that the roles that I played, the success I had, the collapses, the failures, all of that stopped working. And what I've learned is that I'm not my story. I'm the one that's telling it. And so, you know, I'm a new person today than I was yesterday. So today, I build businesses. I write and I teach from a place of presence, you know, less performance, less proving, but more alignment. And so, you know, I hesitate to say I, you know, I am these things. I'm rather continuing to grow and be something new.
So we're live on ChatterSocial, and Katya is in the room. And Katya, I'm thinking that I feel like, like Dylan's kind of like up your alley, too. So I would love to invite you to ask any questions. You know, help me host, if you don't mind. I would love it. What are some— do you mind? Do you have the time? Oh, I got a thumbs up. So what would be your first question to Dylan listening to that?
Oh my, you have to excuse me. Dylan, would you mind repeating it? Sure. Our cooking life.
No problem.
I'm throwing this on you so it makes sense. So thank you. Thank you, Katja.
Yeah, no problem. You know, I think, so what I said was, I believed a long time, for a long time, that I was my story, right? And I think we all have these things where we tell stories, depending on how old we are, we tell stories about who we were. And even, even, you know, what we've done, right? And the roles that we've led, the successes, the failures. Sometimes they even date back, or we start, you know, way far back when we're in high school or college. You know, I was this and, And I did that. But at some point, you know, that stopped working for me. And so what I, you know, what I say now is, you know, I've learned from that story that I'm not that, that I'm the one that's telling this story about, you know, who I am right now and what I am doing. So today, I build businesses, I write, and I teach from this place of presence, less proving who I am, but more alignment.
Oh my God, Dylan, I love this. And we are so aligned in what we do, I think. Uh, I would say— would you, would you say that you are now teaching and showing up from the scar and not from the wound?
Absolutely. Yeah, I love that. And I actually say that quite a bit. When I learned that, that analogy It's so profound, right? Because I think when we, we have this tendency, well, let's say I, I had this tendency to talk from this place of being hurt, right? It's from that wound, and it's easy to fall into that trap, whether it's— and I have, listen, I have tons of failures, and I'm happy to talk about all of them. Probably the biggest one was, was the failure of a business from from really, you know, well, what manifested was drinking and addiction. Where it came from, though, was from this loss and from this trauma of being abandoned in some sense as a child. And so, it took a long time for me to not talk about that, not feel just emotional and that well up that we have inside of ourselves and talk from a from a place of hurt. But once it does scar over, right, once we work on healing that, and once we can get past that, then it becomes a scar, right? And I think it's beautiful that these scars make us who we are. They don't define us. So you won't hear me talk about it, "Oh, woe is me," and because I don't believe that. I mean, I wouldn't go back a minute and trade any of those experiences. Because it's futile, right? I think it's really, we'd love to, on one hand, you're like, oh yeah, well, I'd go back and design this perfect life. But then again, if I, what does that mean to be perfect? And then who would I be today? Well, I wouldn't be having this discussion with both of you right now, for sure. Or if I was, then it would be a completely different discussion we're having.
Oh my God, that's so true, Adrian. You have brought someone— really, I need to connect with you, Dylan. We need to connect. We absolutely— and yeah, um, you said an important thing, uh, the things that, that happen to us do not define us. In a way, we have built ourselves through it. But when you learn to let go of the pain of it and just take with you the lesson, and that's it, and then to let go, that's freedom. That's freedom. And that's your power. You build power on that. No wound, just a scar telling a story, but without being kept in a cage of that emotional— of that emotional cage. Now you can help. Now you can help from another standing point. And that's powerful, Dylan. That's very powerful.
Yeah, you know, I, I just want to say, I, it's unbelievable how like life lines up, right? Like I haven't been feeling good, so Dylan, I've, I've canceled like almost, almost 3 weeks of interviews, but then today I'm like, I'm gonna, I want to do it, I want to do it live, and then for Katya to be in the room, and could you introduce yourself? And then we have Shadow Fox, Stevie, um, hi Marian, I don't know you, we're recording live and the conversation. But like right away I see that— what is it called? I like that, you know, I think coink-a-dink, right? But there's so much more to it. So I'd love to have this be like a roundtable conversation because I think Katya is going to do a way better job of pulling information out of you than I would, and Shadow Fox too. So would you— Katya, would you take a second to introduce yourself? And then I'm adding you to the show notes as a co-host. Because I really appreciate this and definitely will connect you two together. So do you mind, Katya? Do you have time to introduce yourself?
Of course, I don't mind it at all. So I'm a subconscious reprogramming expert. So what I do, what we were talking about, I help people rewire those old crystallized limiting beliefs that were created til the age of 7 mostly. Those are the most crystallized beliefs. And, you know, I work with high-achieving, you know, people who look on the paper all well and settled, but inside they are crumbling. So we are— I help them rewrite that part and become free. You know, I help them to live from the scar, not from the wound. So that's it.
Yeah, I wish I, I wish we would have met, uh, 15 years ago. It would have been super helpful. You know, that story that you, what you just said is so, um, it is 100% poignant for me because in, in essence, what, what happened to me, and I I tell this story all the time. I was running an agency, advertising, branding, marketing agency, super successful on paper, right? Everything was going for us. You know, staff of about 25 people, wonderful, beautiful staff members, a great partner, fantastic clients. We won lots of awards, making lots of money, and had a, you know, have a beautiful wife, beautiful children. And yet eroded myself on the inside. I mean, in reality, I remember standing up in my office one day, and when all of this wonderful stuff was going on, right? And, and because the key is, I hadn't addressed, and I wasn't aware. I bring this word up, awareness is so important to me. I wasn't aware that I was dealing and had been dealing internally. I'd packaged down these these aspects of my childhood into, you know, compacted them into these little diamonds and forced them way down inside and didn't even know they existed. And asked myself this existential question. It was like, why am I, why am I doing this? What is it for? And that's a scary question when all the stuff is great. Yet, you know, and I could see it, but I didn't feel it. And to me, what was happening is I was realizing that, that my work life was completely out of alignment with who I was. I was really good at it, but that didn't matter. And so it's, it's interesting that, that, and then that led to really complete downfall. I mean, it led to, you know, as I say, really blowing up everything, because I didn't have someone like you. And, or maybe I did. But the one thing that, that I like to say now is reach outside, right, and look for those people that can help you, because I didn't. I didn't look to those people closest to me to help. And so it was really an interesting thing. And so then I spent the next 10 years, you know, rewiring, doing that internal work, trying to get to that place where, where I could feel comfortable with who I was, and then be in alignment to build on that and build a new life for myself.
Wow, kudos to you, kudos to you, Dylan. You did the work. And listen, 15 years ago, I couldn't help you. I was actually almost— I was actually physically dying.
Why?
It was, you know, physical illness is the last chain, last link in the chain And I was there. So actually, I have, I have built, rebuilt again my identity to become someone who can help myself and now help others. So I think now is the perfect timing, Dylan, that we met.
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I'm glad you're doing that work, for sure.
So you're in North Carolina?
Um, I'm actually— no, I'm actually in— right now I'm in San Miguel de Allende, Mexico. So I live with my family in both Mexico and Texas now.
Oh, got it. What is your website?
Um, my personal website is dylanclaytonbost.com, or you can go to dylanboss.com. Either of those work. Uh, and the company website is sunnyhq.io.
Okay, I just want to pull it up and welcome to the stage. We have Shadow Fox. Are you able to unmute and say hello, Shadow Fox?
Yeah, hello, hello, Dylan. It's, it's nice to meet you. Um, you know, uh, pretty much like what, uh, Katya does, um, I also work within the framework of energy, of helping people navigate life through awareness, you know, conscious awareness. Yeah, and Um, I, you know, like when it comes to whether it be addictions and so on and so forth, yeah, we tend to, we tend to really beat ourselves up sometimes, don't we?
We do. Yeah, no doubt.
Yeah. But it is, it is very nice to meet you.
Good to meet you.
It's, uh, Dylan, this is probably maybe the first time you've ever been in a podcast where you have— I know you have your own podcast, so we want to hear about that. But it may be the first time you've heard a podcast where there's other voices in the room. Yeah, it's wonderful. It is really wonderful. We've got Stevie here. If you want to mic Stevie, Maryann. Hello, Jean-Paul. Really interesting. So I would love to— if you'd like to introduce yourself. Rosie, amazing. Leah's here. Leah is from the Chatter community. She's a community manager and she works with us every day. Leah, everything worked out okay? Dylan is here, and I just want to show your website because it's really, it's really lovely, Dylan, if you don't mind. I think it may answer some questions.
Sure.
Okay, so first of all, I really meant it when I said— I started by saying that Dylan has a really great face. I mean, like, you could see it on the camera, but also it really— like, I've noticed all your— so you're a coach? A speaker and digital strategy. So with everything we heard, and I love having Katya here and, and actually asking some of those questions, um, so where are you now? Like, what is, what is your goal? You— oh, tell us about The Seven Mirrors. Actually, let's, let's learn about this, your book.
Yeah, so, um, The Seven Mirrors is, is a book about remembering yourself. Um, so I guess this started when, um, about 8 months ago, I actually was— I don't know if you're familiar with a temazcal. A temazcal is an indigenous— essentially, it's a sweat lodge. And so, I've spent a lot of time in and around indigenous and culture in Mexico and in Costa Rica. And, I was actually in the middle of the ceremony and the way that it is formatted is essentially it's a sweat lodge, right? So, you go inside this kind of dome-shaped tent, and there's hot stones that are brought in, and there's, they call it four doors. So it's basically the doors open, they bring hot stones in, they close the door, you're in there. There's messages that are spoken about, there's usually singing and chanting. And at one point, the doors were divided into these four sections, and they're meant to represent basically four phases of life. And so from 0 to 13, from 13 to 26, and so on and so forth, we got to the last door and, you know, and that's to 52. And then they always would ask, you know, who's basically inside this 15-minute container, who's represented here? And I hadn't ever raised my hand. And Juan Pablo, JP, turned and said, you know, Dylan, how old are you? And at the time I was 54. And he said, oh brother, he said, you're an abuelo. And now abuelo in Spanish is grandfather, but it also in this meaning, it means that it now is the phase of life when you teach. And, you know, it hit me profoundly because I'd only known JP for really a short period of time, maybe 5 or 6 months. And so we didn't really have this You know, it was this intimate thing for him to tell me from someone it wouldn't be expected from. And I'd heard this from a couple of others in the past. And what that— and I followed up with him in a conversation afterwards. And what I started to understand is the importance, as we get to a certain age, of really making sure that, you know, we may not think that we know a lot. And, but whatever we do think we do know, it's really our responsibility to teach. And so I, you know, this came really on the heels of, you know, like I said, about 10 years of some deep reflection and inner work. And I really looked at, you know, what is it that I've learned that I feel really, that I feel is really important that I relate to to anyone that wants to listen. And so one is that story of rebuilding my life. I've too had a lot of experience in the plant medicine world and in rewiring my own nervous system and in coming to know myself. And this manifested itself in starting journaling and a manuscript. And what was born out of that was this idea of using And this word mirrors is spoken a lot in those circles in the idea of what's reflected to us through other people usually. And what began to unfold were two things: this idea of mirrors and the fact that when we meet someone— and so the way I usually explain this is, for instance, you know, when we're out at, let's say, a party or dinner or some event, and we meet someone And there's a good and a, you know, there's a positive and negative side to this. It's easier for some reason for me to relate this on the negative side. But when someone usually triggers us, right? When we meet someone and we just can't figure out why I just don't like that person. You know, it's not even that they said really anything offensive. It's just something about them. 100% of the time, there's something in that person. There's some attributes, some behavior, some personality trait that's reflected that's actually us, right? And so if we can learn what that is and not fend it off, not ignore it, but learn from that person, what is it about that person that triggered me? We can usually find that there's something in us that needs to be healed. And so the idea of these 7 mirrors walks us through, through just my own experiences, and how I've found these things and begins to diagram out kind of a format to help— well, it's something that I used in my own life to help me through that process and learn from it. And then the core, kind of the byline to this is a guide to remembering yourself. So I also heard for many, many years this idea, and you all are probably familiar with this, this idea of our higher self, right? We want to We want to get to a point where we're in alignment with our higher self. And something about that didn't really sit right with me because that implied that I'm a lower version of that. And what I came to really realize is I believe that it's less about trying to be a higher version of ourself. It's more about simply remembering who we really are. So, when we're born, we're perfect, right? We've just crossed over, right? And we're this perfect version of— we already know, in fact, who we are going to be at at that point. I'm convinced of it. But then the conditioning starts. It's natural. No harm, no foul, no criticism to the world, but it's just the way it is, right? Our parents condition us. Culture conditioned us. Society conditions us. All these forces start to shape then. And depending on our fortitude, and in my case, because I'm a pleaser and I'm a good adapter, I easily started to put on, you know, metaphorical clothing I started to bring in armor and devices that would protect me from things. And I started to modify who I am. And so, what I've really learned in the last, you know, 5 to 10 years is the idea is more about, you know, more about healing from those traumas, removing that armor, removing those, you know, those heavy cloaks and things that we're wearing that change who we are and simply remembering who we are, um, and, and, and finding the beauty and the wonder in, in absolutely everything that we are. And so the book is really about that. It's a, it's, it's a guide, um, that's really led with— it's more meant to be somewhat of a, um, a memoir, but it's through the things that I remember and through, um, the experiences that I have. This is how those things are manifested. And then I really also wanted it to be You know, as much as possible, look, learn from these things. You don't have to— if you recognize these aspects in yourself that are, that are some that you can compare to the experiences that I've had, you know, here's some things that I wish I would have known 10 years ago that would have helped me. Maybe it would have saved me from some grief.
Take the mic, Katya. Katya.
Thank you, darling. So, Dylan, I really think that we were separated at birth. So this is the first thing that I can tell. And I will for sure purchase. Can you tell us where we can purchase your book? That book seems so on point.
Not yet. I'm finishing it. So I'm at the very end right now. Yeah, I'm in the last kind of editing phase. So my hope is that it will be ready in the spring. So I'll definitely stay in touch. And you can go to my website right now, and there's a link at the top for book. And, and one of the easiest ways to stay involved is just to give me your email address. And as soon as the, as soon as things are ready, I'm going to send out the first chapter to everyone. And also, you, that way also, I have a lot of content that goes out on a monthly basis that does kind of start to get into the book topics as well.
Awesome, awesome. I have a question. So what, what is a story that you would choose now to tell us from your early career that now feels like a mirror you wish you'd seen back then?
Yeah, I think one of the— I think, you know, A story is that I would tell is that I always believed, well, 2 core things. You know, that it's easy for us to fall into that trap of lack. So, you know, a very different belief I have today is that there's this abundance for all of us. So in my first business, you know, I believed that we were in a competition with everyone out there, that we were constantly in this state of we have to win everything. It's a zero-sum game. And what I know now today is It's not. You know, there's more than enough business to support literally every business out there. The key is to find the alignment pieces, right? The key is that I don't need to sell what I have. And "sell" is really kind of a dirty word to me, to some extent. I don't need to align with those people who, who are looking for something that I can provide them. I don't need everyone, right? It's more important that we find this true alignment, this partnership, that there's value exchanged in both directions. And so in that that first business, you know, we were constantly, you know, I think, in a state of suffering, right? Because we're constantly, if we weren't winning it, then we were losing. And then you start to look at how that negatively impacts your psyche. And then along with that, right, there's this beautiful statement of that I learned along the way of that the universe is happening for us, not to us, right? So there's a really, it's a small thing, but it's so profound when we start to realize is that every loss is a message. There's a learning; there's a lesson in that, in that loss. The same thing for every win; there's, there's a lesson in there. And so it's taking that forward and realizing, you know, that path wasn't necessarily for me. Maybe it looked, you know, wonderful and sexy that I was going to win that opportunity. But, but in reality, you know, it was in the not winning it that was more important for me to take that learning forward in my life.
Dylan, um, I just want to say I'm enjoying this conversation. The— oh, so we're live on Chatter Social, which I mentioned, and it's a global app. So I am so excited to introduce you to probably one of the smartest human beings I know, and it's Jean-Paul. Jean-Paul, please take the mic. I'm so glad you're here.
No, I appreciate that, Adrienne.
Hello, Dylan.
It's a pleasure to hear your story and what you bring forth. And what you just shared, my question to you is, in your empirical observation through your client and the people that you meet, how do they create or fall into this narrative of lack? Because we start as children abundant and all of that. What is your observation of how people end up in that space where we're running and rushing after everything to try to fill that lack.
Well, I think it doesn't help, you know, I know we're global here, and then I don't know about other countries. But, you know, in the, in the U.S., right, I think that, you know, and this is present now more than ever, you know, this idea that we are our successes, you know, and, and, and It's this trap that we've conditioned ourselves in society now to, you know, for instance, I was thinking about this just yesterday, and I'm— and this was so profound, this hit me. Now I'm the husband of a wonderful woman, Kimberly, and I'm the father of 3, but 2 of them are daughters. And I thought, you know, what would make me, you know, not more happy than anything in the world, but I thought about this juxtaposition of of motherhood and the importance of that. And I'm not actually sure that there's any more important job than that. And so that is an example, right? We, in the U.S., I know, you know, we look at women who don't, you know, go out in the world and forge a path. And look, that's fine. There's no doubt. It's wonderful. And I know this is a huge topic, but I looked at the importance of what's happening now, because culturally, we've placed so little importance on motherhood and more, or rather more importance on people going out and being successful and having careers and jobs. The problem is, it is, you know, as we've seen is what happens to the kids, right? And that's not to take, you know, to put all the pressure on mothers. Obviously fathers have a huge role in that as well. But, but it hit me like a ton of bricks, right? In that And that's, I think, one small aspect, and that bleeds over into young boys as well, is that, you know, we, you know, from the time— and look at it today, and this is a cliché, right? I mean, it's ever-present in nearly every television show out there, right? This idea that, you know, we're deciding really the future of our kids before they're born. You know, we have, you know, we're deciding what schools they go to, and their pathway from kindergarten is through this, you know, elementary school into this middle school, into this. And I think about that as it relates to my own life. And it's like, I mean, if I were to pre-design where I need to be in 10 years, and not that direction isn't good, 'cause direction's good, but trying to format that in a specific way where it's rigid is not good. There's a great analogy I love that, so whether you believe that we went to the moon or not is not important in this analogy. Let's assume that we did that. And I know that's another topic. But the beauty of this analogy is when, when NASA decided to go to the moon, right, we'd never been there before. How in the world are we going to get there? It's a bazillion miles away, and, and, and, and we've never done it before, and technically we don't know how to do it. But what they understood is we don't have to know how to get there, but we need to know a couple things: where we are today, where we desire to go, and then we simply need to decide the next step, right? We need to, we need to decide on the next 1,000 meters. We need to decide, or another analogy is a flashlight in the dark, right? I don't need to know what is 50 yards out. I just need to know what's right in front of me. And the most important thing that I make, the most important decision I have to make is what is that next step to take? And so I think that there's some real great, profound information in that.
Jean-Paul, any response?
I'd really appreciate that. Thank you, Dylan, for that. The point that you make on motherhood is a very, very important one. I think that there is a relegation in modern culture that to consider that as substandard for whatever reason, culturally speaking, and from the past. It reminded me of a conversation I I had with a young woman who was feeling down because her husband was, you know, claiming that she was not ambitious enough. And the more we started questioning into that, we realized that he was not living up to his ambitions and was projecting it onto her when she was living the ambition that she had. She was successful. She wanted to be the wife. She wanted to have kids. She is the wife. She has the kids. She's living her dreams. She loves what she was doing is that you don't need to take on that belief that you're not ambitious enough. You're actually the one successful. He's not the one living up to that. And when you bring forth that important part is motherhood is as valuable of a way of life, a way of being, a profession. And yeah, so thank you for just mentioning that. I appreciate that.
Yeah. And I mean, it's interesting, right? You just brought up the mirror, the mirror aspect. If he had recognized what he saw in her, rather than, rather than being resistant to it, but in accepting it and saying, and seeing in her the positive instead of the negative, then that helps to inform him on what he needs. Doesn't like fix everything, but it's an awareness, right? It's an awareness that says, oh, what I see is something that I want, so how can I make that happen in my own life? And I think that's, that's just as important as as seeing, you know, well, I mean, it's the difference between seeing the positive in it instead of seeing something that's negative.
John Paul, thank you.
Oh, go ahead. Go back to you, Adrienne.
No, I can't thank you enough. I mean, you pulled out some great information. Amazing. Welcome, Laura, to the stage. Excited to have you. So And, and Shadow Fox, if you want to take the mic at all, I feel like you have, uh, maybe some questions or you would add something to this conversation. I have a lot of respect for you. Um, so, so you are a leadership coach. So who, like, what is your niche market, Dylan, so I can understand?
Well, yeah, so for the most part, um, what I'm doing right now is, is, is I'm running a business called Sunny HQ. Um, so it's It's on the other side of the brain, right? It's what I'm using a lot of the things that we talked about to help inform me on, on how to be a better leader and how to build a more, I guess, conscious company. And so we do kind of high-end, white-glove concierge WordPress hosting from end to end. How all of this starts to relate to that means that, you know, I built a business today that allows me to live a life where I know my family, right? So I don't work 12 hours a day for 5, 6 days a week. I'm able to start to connect with the people around me. And then a big part of what I'm doing today is in writing this book and then looking for the ways that I can share that information. So that in the past has been, before the book came to be, that's, that's been in kind of concierge-level hosting, or excuse me, concierge-level coaching with, with leadership, with leaders and with leadership groups. So helping essentially to, to uncover a lot of the aspects of what we've discussed in business. You know, one of the things that I learned after the downfall of my first business is, is that I really started to understand that I had one of The biggest problems was I had separated my personal life, had compartmentalized it from my business life, right? That the business was all-important. The business was everything. And in reality, I mean, it's like trying to drive a boat in two different directions at the same time. It just won't work. And so, what I do is teach is is try to teach leaders and introduce into teams that idea that, that, you know, that we are humans, right? And it is so, I guess, poignant, much more relative today with, with regard to AI. Because I get asked this question a lot is, How is AI affecting business? The important thing to understand with AI is that it's a tool. And so it can help us actually it can take away a lot of the aspects of our business that are mundane, that take away our time. So I can essentially boil down many tasks and things that would literally take 4, 5, 6 hours of my time into minutes. And that allows me not to work more, right? But that allows me to be available more for my family. And so those are some of the principles that I try to take into business. And what I learned early on when I started this new business, one of the things I took actually from Google— I love this aspect, and I have not worked for Google, but this is a story that I read— that Google allowed for like 30% of their— so, oh, let me make a small point. When I ran my first business, I tried to eke out every hour of every day, not just from me, but from employees. It's natural, right? We want to If we're working harder and we're producing more, then we make more money. And that's very one-dimensional, right? We've also done that now; it's not sustainable. Because what's going to happen from that is you're going to, you're going to break down; your employees are going to break down. We can't sustain this level. And when I heard this from Google, it was interesting. It's they allowed for this opportunity of about 30% of the time, it was like mandated. And I don't know if this is still the case, but it was 10 years ago. That, that if, let's say, employee worked, you know, 40 hours a week, then, you know, 12 hours of that was supposed to be like freebie time for them to just expand on and, you know, pursue something that they were interested in, whether it related to work or not. And, and in fact, some incredible things came out of that. Google Maps came out of that. And what that told me, though, is kind of twofold. It was like, one, that can have a really positive effect on the business because it might develop a product the business is never aware of. But at very least, what it's going to do is, is allow people the freedom to be more relaxed in their environment and be better producers, even inside the less amount of time. And, and to me, I— it was very easy for me to see because I was like, well, if I'm going to spend, you know, a third of my time reading a book, then I'm definitely gonna, I'm gonna be happier when I talk to a client or happy when I do the design work or develop that project. And so it was very obvious in that environment. And so that's, those are some of the things that I try to take to, to these groups is, and we work through. I've developed a format out of the book that is, there probably will be a second book about leadership, as I've started to encapsulate that and bring that to kind of a platform. Um, but that's, um, that's what I do in the coaching world.
I love it. I love it. So we have, uh, 2 questions. We have Shadow Fox first and then Katya again. So, um, Shadow Fox, take it away.
Dylan, you know, I— this is, this is phenomenal what you're really bringing forward to the people. Um, simply because whether you're looking at business or you're looking at your life, there really has to be like that happy medium. You've got to be in the flow with both. And what I've noticed is that businesses that are shifting to the aspect of, you know, that heart-based, you know, recognizing, giving respect, whether to the employees or even to the clientele. For instance, I have a neighbor, he is a multimillionaire, and this guy is angry and miserable, and he talks to everybody like they're, you know, these lower-class citizens, you know. But yet he has a ton of money. And so, I mean, even the, even the, uh, energy that he puts out is— it's toxic. And, um, it's kind of like, I really wish— I mean, I would love to get your book and send it to him. You know, and, and no, seriously, because one of the things I also believe, um, is that if you're looking at, you know, becoming a leader in any capacity, whether it's business or even being a parent, that in one aspect you learn to follow first. What does it feel like to be on the back end? And then don't treat Everybody else the way you were treated, so to speak, right? Because once we step into that heart-based aspect, then we open up into the flow. We really do. And so I'm just— I'm really enjoying listening to you speak. And, and my husband and I also have— we do have a book out, and it's pretty much in the same alignment for what you're bringing forward. But again, mine is based within the realm of energy.
So, yeah, no, it's beautiful.
If you're speaking, we are not hearing.
Katya, thank you. I was on mute. Thank you so much. I was saying that you would, you would be perfect here on Chatter Social because Shadow Fox does teaching. Jean-Paul does rooms. Katya does room. Laura's in the room, does rooms. So definitely want you to take a look at Chatter Social. But Katya, thank you for recognizing that I was unmiked and take the mic. Please, I know you have a question, so I would love to hear it.
Thank you. So we all know that behind badges, behind roles, there are humans, and that's very important to know. But I have a question for you. How can someone tell if they are protecting their identity instead of serving what the business actually needs.
You know, I think, and this is my answer for a lot of things these days, is, is that, you know, and, and you, you, I guess this was just brought up, and that it's more about feeling than it is thinking. Um, You know, I think that we've got to move out of, and I spent so many years in my head, because our brains are these beautiful things, right? The assumption is, is that our brain is who we are. And in reality, the brain is just an organ, like every other organ. It has a singular purpose. And that singular purpose is to solve problems. And once I started to understand this, it became really, it was a little bit scary because I started to ask myself the question of, well, if I'm not what I'm thinking, then what am I? But, you know, the part about that is that the, if the brain is not given a problem to solve, then it's going to come up with its own problems. And so there's a trap therein. And so So moving more from that thinking side into the feeling, and that's really a guide, a guide point for me today is, is, is, and if before I make any decision, and I love to practice this, and I still fall into it all the time, where I start to make a decision, I'm like, wait a minute. And, and, and I've even developed my, some questions for myself to ask myself if it's in alignment. With the key, though, is does it feel right? So if it, if, if, if, if the decision feels right, and truly starting to understand what that means, to feel that literally in your body. Some simple things are, are using muscle testing. And if people aren't aware of what muscle testing is, I would just do some, you know, Google what muscle testing. There's some really simple things. One of the easiest is to stand upright. Just well-balanced. And ask yourself the question. And this is a fun thing that people can do right now. It's just stand up and just ask a question, a yes or no. It has to be a yes or no question. And some easy things, if you don't know, you know, necessarily what to ask, you know, ask some of these global questions. Simply say war and peace or love or hate, right? Meaning, if you say the word love, watch your body. Your body will lean forward. If you say hate, your body will lean backwards. And the same thing with war and peace. And you can ask yourself these questions out loud. And it's really amazing. I still try to trick myself all the time because if I really want one thing over another, you know, it involves becoming kind of aware of where your body is and being still in that moment. But it's interesting, once you learn that your body doesn't lie, your head does all the time because you're in it. And let me, I guess, just clarify that your head isn't lying necessarily, right? Your head doesn't really care what the answer is. It's choosing based on a lot of different variables and factors. And so your body, though, has a true awareness of what your soul, what your entire embodied spirit wants. And it's going to help you, point you in the right direction by that answer. And so, so that's, you know, that's how I really start to look at that and answer some of those questions for myself.
Oh, that's perfect, Dylan. Let me tell you, let me tell you that, because this is something that I do with my clients all the time. It's, that's a testing. And many people do not know that body is connected to the subconscious mind. So the body will tell you the truth while mind will just keep up with it, just trying to make sense of it.
Yeah, yeah. Well, sometimes I don't— sometimes I don't think I want to know the answer. It's funny, I'll sit with something I don't have a good example right now, but I'll sit with something and know it. It's in the back of my head. Something I also like to do is talk to myself out loud more these days. But I'll sit and maybe 3 days will go by and why don't you just stand up and ask that question? The answer's there. And it's an interesting thing. It's going to sound weird. You know, I mean, there's some people out there listening right now that are like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I get it. And there's others like, that's the weirdest thing I've ever heard. It takes practice, right? But once you, once you get it, or maybe some of you have been to a practitioner out there, like you said, Katya, that where you practice that. It's interesting how much if you can have an ailment in your body, and if you're working with the right person, they can use muscle testing and they can find out where that, where that's coming from. And once you experience it a couple times and it's undeniable, then you'll go, okay, well, maybe there's Maybe there's something to this, and, but I can, I can attest to it. It's 100% of the time, if I truly want to know the answer to something and I'm willing and receptive and open to it, if I simply stand up and do that, do that muscle testing, it's, it's interesting. And then I have to have a willingness to move forward with it, right? Then it's, it's, it's all up to me to do something with that information.
I am loving this. We have two more questions. We have— thank you, Katya. We have Mary Ann. and then we'll go back to Jean-Paul. Marianne, take the mic.
Um, hi Dylan, nice to hear you here. Um, I'm, I'm not a worker in this field, I'm just an artist who loves to work with feelings and emotions. Yeah, and that's also my question, and I, and I love it that you been in the sweat lodge. I've been several times in the sweat lodge, and it's very helpful, very, very helpful. Um, what I like the most from the sweat lodge is that you can, you can, um, well, help each other so much in the energy by just keeping to sit up. But I want— I wanted to know how you make The difference between feelings and emotions.
You know, I think that, you know, those things are so closely related, right? And, you know, I guess to me, the feeling is the manifestation of what that emotion is. And the exploration of of what that actually means is important. So meaning, you know, if I'm feeling angry, you know, about something, maybe it's because I'm scared. And so trying to— and this, I guess, leads me to something that's really important to me, that idea of the difference between reaction and response. And that idea that that as it relates to even my own, I guess, understanding of who I am and what I'm going through, and especially as it relates to the world outside me. So that idea of, if I react instantly to that anger, then 10 times out of 10, I'm going to make a bad decision. But if I take a breath and take a moment and give myself an opportunity to respond. So whether that's an internal response, that then helps me get to the emotion and what's underlying from that feeling. And so, you know, that's something I take to me, and I still, it's a practice. I got to say, you know, when I talk, I'd like to really underscore everything I'm saying with, I'm by no means perfect, or even close to it at any of this. It. But I love to talk about this stuff because it helps me hold myself accountable. And there's this beauty once we learn to, to respond instead of react. And I heard this once, and I think about this all the time, that— and I think everyone can relate to this— practice this the next time you're triggered in a situation, or at least be aware of it, and it'll help lead you to a practice. Of when we react to something. So the first thing we say, right, that instantaneous thing that we say, that snapback is never the right thing to say. But you know what's interesting is the second thing that we say is exactly how we really feel and is a response. And so the trick is, that's why I say, take a breath. The trick is, in light of, and I'm saying in that, in the crunch time, you know, and in that last moment when someone says something and we're, We haven't, we're not quite at an argument yet, but someone says something that really digs in. The importance is if I take a breath and allow myself that moment to respond, then who I really am and the true emotion behind what I really want to communicate is going to be felt. Not, you know, not the feeling side of it, not that raw reaction side of it. And so it's It's something that I really, I try to remind myself regularly, because there's this beauty that can be found. And you know what, you can save yourself so much time and grief if you learn to respond to everything in your life instead of react.
Marianne, that was a great question. What a response!
Wow!
Did you, do you have, Marianne, before we go to Jean-Paul, did you want to respond?
Yeah, I love the response. I think we can sometimes mix up the words emotion and feelings because emotions are very— well, emotions come from the mind and from the ideas that we have from our earlier experiences. So, well, I was, I was looking where, where is your field of that? I personally, I would, uh, bind feelings also to the energy between the people, but that's another topic, I think.
Yeah, absolutely. I agree.
Absolutely. Oh my gosh. I, and, and Dylan, I gotta be honest with you. I don't think I would have had this in depth. I know I wouldn't have. I, I would not been able to carry this interview if it wasn't for Katya, Seattle Fox. Jean-Paul is next, and Marianne. And it's crazy because it's not like, um, they always come into the room. So as I said at the beginning, this is incredible. Uh, Jean-Paul, we'll have you ask the last question, and, uh, take it away please, and thank you.
Well, I really appreciate everything you've been sharing, Dylan. We definitely have similar pathways on how we experience things and how we go through that. I wanted to comment on and have your thoughts on that. You mentioned earlier on how you use, uh, muscle testing, and one of the things that's very important in that is, do I even want to know that answer? And I think that's a very critical piece there because, like, I, I'm as a practitioner, as a coach, I use the mind-body relationship, but I go mind first. That's my approach towards it. But we recognize it's unconscious and all of that. But there's a way to go from the mind down there. And every time my client tells me, I don't know, when I'm asking them a question, It's not that they don't know. The answer is right there. They don't want to see it. And I don't know if that's the case in your observation, and I'd be curious about that. But almost every single time with my clients is that there's a self-preserving or self-protection. That is why they say they don't want to see it.
Yeah, you know, and I think for me, it might be— I totally agree, first of all. But maybe, well, For me, maybe it's not that I don't want to see it. What I think I'm really starting to understand from all of my work is, is that I'm not ready to see it. I'm not, I'm not ready to work through— there's, you know, there's this key difference, right, between awareness and integration, right? So I can, if I become aware of something, but I'm not ready to integrate it, I'm not ready to actually do something about it, then it's not that it's not valuable, but that, depending on what the situation is and what it is that I'm presented with, it could, you know, I could, it could bring up thoughts of fear, anxiety. And so, you know, in my earlier example, you know, I think it was somewhat of just a trite, "I don't think I'm ready to do that yet," or maybe, "I don't want to know the answer." Maybe I want to hold myself hostage. Right, to some extent, just self-sabotaging side. But I think I'm really coming to understand more that it's— and I've learned some of this through plant medicine— is that I can know something, you know, I can know something in my head, but if I don't truly understand it, then I don't really know what to do with that information. And it can drive me in a different direction that maybe— and so maybe that's That's what that's about, right? It's, it's, it's, and maybe that's exactly what you're saying, where it's like, I'm not ready for it. I will be. And at the point, and I'm giving myself a lot of grace these days. It's interesting. I used to think I've got to do, do, do. I've got to get everything done. And what I've, you know, learned in the last 10 years is, you know, we're never done. And it's more important that rather looking for that kind of that that, that end chapter, right, looking for that goal, that, that I'm just really enjoying every piece of, of, you know, of the turmoil that I go through, of the successes that I have. And so in the, in the when I'm ready to realize that thing, and my wife, I know, points this out all the time, it's like, how could you not figure that out? I was like, maybe I'm not ready to figure it out yet. And maybe I need to be OK with with not, you know, with just simply be OK with not understanding it at this point and not being confused.
That's a, and that's an interesting way to see it. I know that in my world, awareness is key. And even being aware of something that you cannot do anything about it, just that awareness and accepting For me, that's a difference. It's accepting that I'm not ready to do anything about it, but at least I know it's there. I can— Oh, 100%.
Yeah.
Which is very different from I'm hiding from it and it's, it's doing things in my life without me having any control over it. And, and, and that's where a lot of the story of self-sabotage comes in. When you become clear that, yeah, well, I am protecting myself. I got this one. I haven't solved it yet. I know I'm working on it or I'm not working on it. And so when things blow up because of that, I don't blame myself for it. I don't beat myself. I know it's there. I've not done the work yet. So that's why, you know, it's not solved. It's still there. But at least I'm aware of it. It's not— it removes that little bit of mystery or question of why am I doing this or why is this happening? And so that's what for me that I don't know, I'd rather know it. And accept the fact that I'm not going to do anything about it, but it is, I know it. But that's 100% on that instead of, yeah, I don't know it. It's, it's, it's, it's something happening to me. I don't know where and why.
Yeah.
And that's where, you know, for me, that idea of, I don't know. Yeah. And absolutely, there is a notion of being ready to tackle it and integrate it.
I agree.
That's where you go and do the healing work, go do integration work. Whatever modality that is most aligned with you on that. For me, that first awareness, when you say, I don't know, it's, there's a part that, yeah, I don't really want to see it right now. And, but I don't want to see it for a purpose. And I'd like to find out what that purpose is, because at least now I'm aware that I have that intention that's running my life. And Almost every self-sabotage story that I've heard of people bringing up to me is just they don't recognize that unconscious intent. Because the moment you see what that unconscious intent is, there is no self-sabotage. You, you acted out on that unconscious intent, and it was perfect for that. Even if you blow up and scream and yell at people, which is obviously for your conscious goal not productive, for your unconscious goal that unconscious intent in the moment, that was the perfect response to that.
And yeah, well, I love that you said that. Yeah, I love that you said that about awareness, because it's— I say this all the time. Awareness, to me, out of all the things I talk about, is the most important. I call it my medicine. Because when I was— when I had my first big breakthrough, awakening, whatever you want to call it, when I was around 40 years old, Now, it was scary as hell, but I became aware of things in my early childhood that had gone, like, were completely hidden to me until that point. The fear part of it, the scary part was like that I, that they were there and I wasn't aware of them. And, and that's why I'd love that because it's like once I did become aware, I didn't necessarily know what to do. But you're 100% right. Once I was aware, I couldn't help but do something about it, right? I mean, I couldn't help but get on some slide, some path, some road to making, you know, to making a change in my life. Because you're right, before you're aware of it, you know, how can you be expected to make a change, right? You're going to live from a place of reaction only. And so I 100% agree. Awareness to me is the best medicine on the planet.
That's the starting point for any personal development journey at any scale.
Absolutely.
It's a beautiful and never-ending spiral.
Yep. I love that. Yep, it is.
Wow. Thank you, Dylan. You've given us an hour of your time. I want to thank you. I will be introducing you and just sending you some more information of Katya, Shadow Fox, Jean-Paul, and Marianne. Um, you guys are going to be listed in the show notes, so I'm going to make sure I grab your, um, information so you can see that. And this has been great. Is there anything that wasn't asked of you that you would like to share before we say goodbye?
I don't think so. No, this is a great conversation. I really appreciate all the insight from everyone. It's beautiful. Thank you so much.
I know I can't, I can't thank the team here on Chatter Social for being in the room and coming in. It's, it's just— what's the right word? Someone give me the right word. I want to say serendipity.
Synchronous.
Yes, thank you.
Yeah, I love it.
That's it, that's it. Oh my gosh. Okay, I'm gonna end the stream. Thank you everyone for watching. I have enjoyed this. And Dylan, just amazing. We'll get this produced in about a week and a half. So very excited. And I'm gonna end the stream right now.
