Superstar Guest Richard Haiduck talks about his book Shifting Gears on Candid Conversations

All right, so I got us on recording. So this is so exciting. So Richard Hayduck, how do I pronounce your last name?

You got it right. That's good.

Awesome, awesome. I am actually using our SCORE webinar right now, and I'm actually thinking this is actually a really great conversation to have with people from SCORE. And but I want to jump right into retirement This is when things get heated up and started in volunteerism. So tell me about— tell me, what, what were you doing that made you want to write a book?

Well, when I was 7, I always wanted to be an author. That lasted about a year, and then 65 years later, I picked up the thread where that, where that fell off, stimulated in large part by other retirees doing things that I just thought were amazing and the stories needed to be told.

I— okay, so now, and as I wrote to you about my parents, is it true that there's almost like an addiction? The more you kind of volunteer your time, the more you want to continue doing it?

Yes, for me and for a lot of others, um, but I think it depends on the volunteering. There are great organizations to volunteer with who give you challenging things to do and recognize and reward very well and have flexibility and camaraderie and all that. And the people that are in those organizations get addicted and they love it because it gives a whole new purpose and passion to their life. I was talking to somebody the other day and they said, I volunteer and I hate it because I'm just treated badly. I'm not, you know, I'm just not Nobody ever says thank you, and they're always criticizing my work. And I thought, well, you know, you just need to go someplace else. There's so many great organizations that appreciate their volunteers. I work with the Miller Center here at Santa Clara University, and they are spectacular at organizing things and then making us all feel like we're really helping, because we are.

So do you think as a volunteer that we actually have a voice that we could say Like, like almost like an exit survey before you leave an organization to let them know why you're walking away from it because they're the treatment.

Yeah, I think an exit survey is helpful. I think the organizations that are doing this right are already focused on doing it right. And they've got people that say, we're going to do this in a certain way. And it starts, Adrian, with something worthwhile that the volunteering is doing, something that you feel passionate about. In the case of the Miller Center, we are mentors to social entrepreneurs around the world. I just finished working with an organization that provides innovative shelter solutions for refugees. Now, what could be more impactful than that? And helping them. And, and they've had a couple of breakthroughs while I've been working with them, and, and it's just been so gratifying and so important. And then the organization that you're working with, that you're mentoring, is providing you feedback and, and, and all sorts of things of recognizing how helpful you're being. But then the parent organization in Santa Clara University also has a number of recognition programs. And they're not, they're not programs where you get a gold star. It's more conversational. Somebody says, oh, I heard you did this. That's really cool. And it's tailored to the individual and what they've accomplished.

I think it's so important. I love that you wrote the book. So, and there's so many. So really, this book could be read by nonprofits and organizations that are looking to bring in the mature market that has a little bit more time on their hand and they need to understand how, is this sad to say? 'Cause I mean, I'm an etiquette and corporate trainer, but how to be nice to each other, how to smile. When I was younger, it's funny, when I was younger, I knew before I would get on a committee or a board, if all I wanted was a smile, that's like the most important thing to me is that the president, was smiling in the chair, and that you want to walk into a room and you'd— right away they greet you at the door and you're like, oh, this is going to be fun, even though I'm like working. It would be— but I've seen that, that they're— unfortunately, people that are like, their job is really a job where they are working, and part of that work is to help volunteers, uh, do their job successfully, forget— they actually forget that the volunteers are not working, and you should treat them always with dignity and integrity and kindness.

Yeah, there's another thing that I've seen both in the organizations and in the volunteers, and I made up some words here, words that don't go together. So the phrase I use is relaxed intensity. And you're— and Adrian, you're sitting there saying, wait, you can't be relaxed and intense. And I would say to you Retirees who are volunteering become expert at relaxed intensity. And how do they do that? They know what they're working on is important. They feel passionate about it. They feel committed to it, but they're going to do it their way. They're going to do it in a more relaxed way. They're not going to get an ulcer. They're not going to have a bunch of false deadlines. They're not going to have somebody breathing down their neck. They're going to have a relaxation, they're going to have a smile on their face, they're going to enjoy every step of the way, but they're going to get stuff done. And so they have relaxed intensity. And the organizations can foster that, but a lot of people get that inside themselves. One of the guys that I interviewed was a cancer patient, and he was diagnosed with cancer at about the same time he retired. And of course, that was a devastating blow to him. He was in the middle of his treatment. He made some good treatment choices. He was going into remission. And they said— and he said to them, how can I help you? And their response was— he thought their response would be, oh, write me a check. They said, no, we need a cancer house in this community. Can you pitch in and help on that? And so he took over— it's a longer story than that, but he took over the leadership of building a cancer house in that community so that people would have a place to stay while they were being treated and where their families could stay in an economical way. And it was a several-year project, and this guy had a ball doing it because it was so important, and he could do it in a relaxed way, um, and he could have some fun with it and have a smile on his face throughout that process. So it was after interviewing him I came up with this That's something special. And then I started seeing it from others. And then I made up some words, relaxed intensity.

That is really— I was sharing the story of my dad and how he— my parents, they didn't stop giving. As a matter of fact, the last gift is creating artwork for a wall in Broward Hospital in Fort Lauderdale. But the crazy thing was my dad just didn't say, here's artwork. He laid it all out. He wanted everything how he wanted it to make it easy for them. Sent the people to put the artwork up. And one day he said to me, it really is a lot of work donating, whether you're buying tickets for a table. He never did trust— if he got— if he spent $2,000 for 20 people to attend a dinner, he made sure that the people that were attending the dinner had the money to put into a silent auction. So he really— every part of that plan. And then I said, well, why don't they do it for you, Dad? 'Cause I worked for Muscular Dystrophy for 10 years. I worked for American Cancer Society. I've served on boards. I'm like, they'll do it. He's like, no, they're not gonna do it how I want it to be done. So stop doing it. And I'm like, wow, that, but it made me realize that, and I think I was telling you the silent auction, it's easy to donate to a silent auction, but then to say, wait, I want the silent auction to look good for everyone. So no matter what you put your fingers in, and especially retirement, you don't want it to not be, because it becomes your legacy too of what you've done, and hopefully your children will even pick it up. Was there any, any stories about that where the children came behind and, and continued?

I would say, um, kind of not exactly answering your question here, I would say the children have been an important part. I children and friends to encourage people to do things, to not say, "Grandpa, you're too old to do that," or, "You couldn't do that because, you know, you got a bad knee," or whatever. So, I think the children, not so much following in their footsteps, but encouraging the retiree to consider things that are way outside of the norm. One of the challenges I've had in some discussions with some of the retirees is, have you come up with anything where your kids and your colleagues all say, are you crazy? Why are you doing that? I said, then you know you're testing your limits. So I would say the kids can help with that openness and encouragement of 180-degree shifts in the individual. To do things they've always wanted to do, but maybe doing for the first time or maybe in the steep part of learning curve.

Interesting. So, you know, I love the idea of having like a, like a nonprofit expo where you could bring in the, the, the mature market and have them come in and then actually walk around after COVID, obviously, and find out what each— because I could see where you would have a passion your whole life. You, you you've had a grandchild that has had muscular dystrophy, but maybe there's a passion in you that you don't even know about. So how can, how would you recommend a retired person actually looking for a nonprofit to connect with? And then how do you, what would you recommend for a nonprofit? How do they reach out into the arms of retirees?

So I think for the, let's start with the retiree first. I think they've got to identify you know, what is their passion and what kinds of things would they like to be involved in. I think for some, they want to be very hands-on. Maybe they want to work in a soup kitchen, you know, doling out food to needy people, and that fits their needs perfectly. That's what my wife does, and she loves it. She just really enjoys the interactions, even now that they're doing it in a bag and setting it outside the door so that it's not a COVID thing. So, finding your own passion is, is the starting point. You're probably familiar with a website called volunteermatch.org. And I think going there, putting in your zip code, and seeing the list of different things. And most zip codes, that list is really, really long, even in COVID, to help a bunch of different people with their volunteer needs. So, I actually, I've got a blog on my website that says, here's the 8 steps for figuring out how to, how to volunteer. Here. So I would suggest people go to that. For the volunteer organization, you know, I've never— I've recruited a lot of my friends to join the Miller Center where I'm a volunteer. So the word of mouth part I'm very familiar with. I think creating the right environment is about that, having, as you put it, having the smile on the face, you know, when you're interacting with the volunteer. And I think the retiree community is tight enough that the word gets out that this is a great organization to work in, or it isn't. And that word of mouth will allow the best volunteer organizations to continue to recruit.

When you research for your book, was there anyone else? Are you the first that wrote a book about like this, like with stories, or were there other stories, books that you read? I mean, I think there's always room for more books, but I wasn't sure where fell on, like at what point.

So you're way too young to know about a guy named Studs Terkel. Have you heard of him?

No, but I love the name.

He's a Chicago journalist. He wrote a book called Working, and he went out and did exactly the same process for people in their jobs. What do you think about your job? How do you connect emotionally to it? Um, What's important to you? Not how do you, how do you do your job, but how do you feel about it? Um, and he did that in the '70s. It was a great book that I'll remember all my life. When I first started getting into this project, I said, certainly somebody has done that for retirees, just gone out and said, tell me about this stage of your life. And I couldn't find such a book about retirees. Um, I found 100 self-help books and, you know, 100 financial planning books, all that kind of stuff. I couldn't find a book of stories of people sharing their candid observations. So what I did, I started interviewing people, and I had a copy of Studs Terkel's book on— you can see it actually behind me here. Every 3 or 4 interviews, I would pause and read a couple chapters of Studs Terkel. And I'd say, oh, here's what I can learn from him. Here's how I should have done that interview. Here's how you draw people out. So to answer your question, I don't know that there is a book of stories. I also think that most authors are tempted to tell the answer and be prescriptive and say, here's what you should do. And what I said, I'm going to be non-prescriptive. You read that story, and if it connects with you, that's great. If not, turn the page and go on to the next story and see if that connects with you. And you draw your own conclusions. And I've had dozens of people say, no, you have to give them the answer. You have to tell them what to do. I said, no, they can figure it out. If they read a story about somebody who's doing something that they admire and want to emulate, then away they go. One of the ladies in the book had 4 leg surgeries in 3 years, was on a cane for that whole time. At the end of that, she said, 'I've got to do something tough now. I've never been in better shape in the last few years. I got all new parts. It's only going to go— it's only going to get worse from here. I'm going to go climb Mount Kilimanjaro in Africa, a climb up a 19,000-foot mountain.' And my point in that is not that everybody's going to climb Kilimanjaro, but reading that story, you might say, 'Oh, you know that thing I was thinking about doing, taking a bike ride around Lake Tahoe. I think I'll go try that. If that lady can climb Mount Kilimanjaro, I can take a bike ride around Lake Tahoe. So just to add one other point, the book, there's a whole large section about volunteering and the passion of volunteering, but the book also has things about working in retirement, spiritual experiences in retirement, relocation in retirement. So it's, it's whatever the retiree wanted to talk about. And then I assembled that into a book of those stories.

I just love this. I'm so going to take a minute to just, because I want to, I want to make sure that first of all, my friends at SCORE, and I just love SCORE. When I met, I met a woman when I was in my 20s. And I remember she was probably about my age. I'm 58. So I am that 55 and older. I am that mature market. And when I met her, I mean, she was very beautiful, but I remember her telling me about SCORE and I put that on my bucket list. And everyone's like, that's a weird bucket list. And I'm like, I just honestly, my mom used to say if I had all the money in the world, I would give it all away. And I could understand that if I had all the time in the world, I don't have the money, but I have the time and the talent. And there's nothing And, you know, there's, there's something to say about monetization, but for me, I, I would rather not have a lot but, but give more. So I just, I just want to say, I think that, I think when we're younger, we— I, I always believed in my head, like, the, the 30-year-old needs to find a place where they can, uh, you know, do find their passion. But I never thought of what you're thinking of. And so this is just a pitch to read Richard's book and share it. Share it. You know, this is— your book is also a great book for anyone that is retiring and a company is looking to give a gift. I think it's a beautiful gift. But I think that this is a book that you share with your younger generation too, with your coworkers, so that they understand that need for volunteerism is really at any age. And the fact that when you're retired, obviously you have more time. And they also say that to keep active when you're retired makes a lot of sense too. And that it's not good to just sit home and look at your other significant other all day long.

Right, right. And just to add one other point to that too, for a lot of the retirees, when they were working, they weren't able to do volunteering because they were very busy, and they felt that kind of built up inside them that I want to do something like that. And, you know, one person said This life's been really good to me. It's time to settle the score. I need to do something to give back. This particular guy volunteers in a maximum security prison teaching anger management to prisoners. And that's about as tough as it gets. But he said, I go in and most days it's really frustrating. I don't get through to him. Every once in a while I get through, but the point isn't about making me happy. It's about doing something that is important to give back. And he's really passionate about it, and he's been doing it for several years, and he's had some real success stories. And then a lot of days he goes in and nothing happens. So I think that that having a good life and then now giving back is a turning point for a lot of people in their retirement.

I love that. And also that, okay, so I teach corporate etiquette. So I actually would love to do that and go into the— and Maximo would be amazing. The only thing is I have a 14-year-old, so I want to wait 4 years for her to be a little older. So I don't have to just worry about anything with myself. But I love that there's adventure too, like, and that's the thing too. I did my first— all right, so '58, I did my first disaster relief in Louisiana, Labor Day weekend, and I was doing great. I had a rash on my ankles, and I'm like— and they're like, did you step in something? Did you go in the water? What did you do, Adrienne? I'm like, no, no, no. Later that day, I was talking to a woman and she was showing me how all of her statues of, of Mary, like, saved her, her property. And I was talking to her about my age and I showed her my rash and she's like, that's not a rash, that's stagnant whatever it is with my veins. My blood was like oozing out of my veins. And I'm like, oh my— she's like, you've gotta go inside and put your feet up right away, it's serious. And I thought, oh my God, here I am so excited that I'm young enough to do this, that I feel good, that I could do disaster relief, and then I'm like, boom. But you can't sit in a vehicle, Adrian, for 20 hours driving with your feet under you. So like, I learned like, okay, we all— it was just a good learning lesson for me. Like, I'm so excited to do it, but I, I am older, and so I've got to take a little step back. And, you know, so now, uh, Maria asked me, would you go again? And I'm like, you know, let someone else go. I did enjoy it, but I have to I, you know, so it's smart at any age though, because people have all their limitations no matter how old they are. But I just thought that was funny because I really had— I was like bragging how great I was, and then she, she's like, you're ready to get serious. But anyways, I think that— I think what your, your book is important that I want to push it for you. So I'm actually really excited to talk with you, and I'm going to, uh, share this because I really feel that you You are doing something, such a beautiful thing. May I ask how young you are?

Uh, 73.

Yeah, that is a great age. Well, you could be President of the United States, so you're fine with that, right? Actually, not about politics, because politics— that I'm looking to go into politics, so by the time I actually run for city commission, I'll be 60, right? So I could be— maybe I'll be lucky enough to be retired in 2 years. So if you ever— did anyone, any of your stories go into the political arena?

No, I just met a guy who I said, boy, I should have met you earlier. He retired to go into politics, but he's not in my book. But I said, I bet that's an amazing story. He says it was really an interesting ride. But no, I don't have one of those in the book.

Part 2, part 2. Everyone's going to want a second book.

Right. Yeah. Yeah.

But your book just came out, right? So I think it just— is it just released?

Uh, it's, it's on pre-order right now on Amazon. It's releasing on November 17th. Um, and people can find out a lot more about the book and the reviews. And there's actually a free copy of the prologue on my website at richardheiduck.com. It's H-A-I-D-U-C-K.com.

Oh, I'm going to promote you. If you do— you know what I'd love to see you do is do something like this create the Zoom and tell your story, or bring on— do the next step, which would bring on your, um, your guests that you wrote about so that we could actually meet them. Because I love, like, this day and age, when you read a book now or watch a documentary, I'll stop it and then I'll Google the person and see if I can connect. So, so, oh my God, that would be a really— and if you need help, Richard, I am willing to, um, teach you anything I know and help you to, you know, and I don't charge, so I would love to just help you, but I think that would be exciting. Maybe something for the new year.

Yeah, that'd be interesting. Yeah. And some of the people are great storytellers too. They not only did something neat, they know how to explain it in an interesting way. So maybe that's something we could do in the new year. And maybe focusing on volunteering rather than some of the other topics that are in the book. But I'd be glad to work with you on that.

I would. I think that would just be— can you imagine the two of you together? All right, so I'm going to let you go. I apologize for the little confusion today. I'd like to— I'm going to ask people to write and give us questions so that we could do this again. In the meantime, please, let's get Richard's book. Let's read it. Let's talk about volunteerism. If you're a nonprofit, you really should be getting the book so you can understand better how to appeal to this amazing market of educated, smart— give me some more. What was it again? What's your oxymoron, which I love? Relax.

Relaxed intensity.

That is so great. Did you copyright that?

No, I haven't yet, but I probably should.

Do it now. Do it right now. Let's get off the phone.

So the book is called Shifting Gears, is the name of the book. So 50 baby boomers share their meaningful journeys in retirement.

I love that. I can't believe I'm a baby boomer. I forget that I am. This is kind of fun for me. I love doing these. I started doing this because I wanted to have people meet my friends. And so there's no prep. I don't— I thank you for your questions. I don't really read questions or see what other people— because if I met you, Richard, and you said, let's get a cup of coffee and I'll tell you about my book, I wouldn't say to you, well, let me read your book first, so let me get questions to ask you. So this is like our having a cup of coffee and just asking the questions. And I wish I had a full hour and a half to 2 hours with you. I'm gonna love these stories, and I know what's gonna happen. People are gonna fall in love with the stories, and they're gonna be excited that you're gonna bring them to life. We get to meet the people. So, all right, have a great rest of the day. I'll have all of your information and I'll post it up. And I am just— thank you for everything you're doing for, for me, my age, and then for all the nonprofits, because we will use your book as a stepping stone on how to increase volunteerism. So thank you.

Thank you. This has been, this has been really enjoyable. Um, when, when will the— this go, uh, go live?

Oh, I'm so quick. I'll download it to the MP4 and I'll have it by the end of the day. No time to waste at our age.

Okay, very good, very good.

We have to jump on every second.

This was fun, and thank you so much.

Thank you. I'll talk to you again. Thank you. Thank you. Bye-bye.