SuperStar Guest Thomas Madden, TransMedia Group!

Hello. Okay, so we are live. Okay, calm it down. So I am here with Tom, Mr. Tom Madden. I actually took the information from Wikipedia to put in the scrolling bar— not, not the birth date though, I removed that— so we could all see exactly who I'm talking to. Don't ask how I scored this amazing interview because I'd have to shoot you. So hello, Mr. Madden. This is so exciting, and I love PR and communication. So let's just jump right into it. So tell me about yourself. We're having coffee and I want to know who you are.

Well, I'm many people. I'm a publicist. I'm a spin man. I'm a journalist. I combine, I'm an author, I'm a blogger. I mean, I'm quite a few people, but there is a theme running through there. I mean, I'm just curious about life and I like to help good things occur faster, like this stimulus package that's taking forever. And I just did a blog about it and I got some amazing response because I sort of criticized Speaker Pelosi in this interview she had with Wolf Blitzer on CNN the other night, and he was asking her very straightforward questions, you know, why don't you just take this $1.8 trillion? Why are you balking at that? That's a lot. And she kept smiling, and I thought the smile was kind of like forced or automatic, or it didn't seem sincere to me. And she started putting him down for not being aware of all the intricacies of bargaining and all that. And he kept hitting her back with, but people are suffering, they can't pay their rent, they, you know, they're waiting in food lines. I mean, at least the money's on the table. Why not take it? And then she scolded him that he didn't know all about it. He wasn't aware of the complexity of the bargaining, and they went back and forth, and I kind of like satirized it in my blog. That was last week. Then I got this very compelling response from this woman. In California, and she, she kind of criticized because she thinks Pelosi has her interests at heart. And, you know, and she's telling me how much suffering is occurring in her community and in her household with her disabled husband. And, you know, she just made me really think about this a little more deeply. And because people are suffering. And yet they're— she's saying to me, what good is it if I only get enough money just to buy medicine but no food, or just food and no medicine? You know, she needs a complete solution here, and that's what she believes the speaker is going for. And that's what this stalemate has led, and, you know, in an impossible situation. So I incorporated her thoughts and her, her reaction in my latest blog. And, uh, you know, I urge you to take a look at Mad Mischief today. Uh, it's, it's very compelling. It's— I wanted to, to expose her side of the story, and, uh, and now I think it is a more complete you know, examination of what's going on. And, uh, so I'm kind of proud the way this has come out. And it's— I changed her name because I, I, I try, I try to get back to her saying, could I use your name? Could I, you know? But I didn't get a response, so I created a new name for her. But basically I incorporated her, her, her thoughts and her messages to me because they were profound and they were very sincere. And they struck a chord. So anyway, that's a bit of me in terms of, you know, the way I think and the way I react. I, you know, I'm willing to change my mind. If I'm wrong about something, okay, I'll take a different, a broader perspective or whatever. I did try to coach this woman and saying, you know, you can always fight another day. Take, take this money and at least solve a few problems. But, uh, she, she didn't really agree with me on that. But so that, that's my— I, I try to bring about solution here, you know, and, and, and that's what I've always been doing. And, and I started in journalism. That was my first job, you know. I, I worked for the Philadelphia Inquirer and, uh, I enjoyed journalism. I was very competitive. I had a lot of energy. I wanted that story. I wanted the story badly, you know, so, and I would really bang the bushes and beat the bushes, get out there, try to find the right sources, get to the heart of what it is I was chasing. And that really set a motion for me. I guess it's endured through my life. I like to find out what the truth is, and I'd like to find out what the various sides are and disagreements. And journalism helped me to do that, and I was very good at it. I remember covering the first skyjacking in Philadelphia. This was years ago. and this was a very novel event. Somebody actually took over an airplane, you know, and, uh, they finally subdued the guy and the plane landed safely in Philadelphia. But I was sent out to interview all the passengers, uh, in this very early attempt to, uh, take over an airplane, uh, you know. So, uh, the police, however, had you know, had cordoned off all the passengers and they were keeping the media away from the passengers. You couldn't get to the passengers to interview them. And I want to know what this character was like, what they went through, who's the person who finally subdued the, the man, uh, and I was just burning to get into this room where they were, the police and authorities were interviewing the passengers. So I saw a guy turn around a corner and he was bringing coffee in. He was probably a waiter or something. And I went over to him. I said, listen, they're going to need much more than this. Give me the coffee. I'll bring it in. And I took the coffee into the men's room and I took my jacket off and I had a white shirt on. And then I came out of the bathroom carrying the coffee with just my white shirt. And I went up to the police lines and the guy started to block me. And I said, coffee for the passengers. Oh, okay. All right. So he let me through and I started to pour coffee for the passengers and interviewing them and getting the story. You know, pretending to be a waiter. So, I mean, that's the kind of stuff I, I just relish and I enjoy doing so much. And, uh, those were days when journalism was very competitive, but we were really competing to get the story, not just to present one side or, or a political side. We wanted to get— find out what happened. Okay, and I enjoyed doing that, and I was cited, given some awards for a kind of dedication, and then I decided that let me try something else because I was beaten up one night. I was covering a meeting of very angry people in North Philadelphia, and They were mostly minority people there, and I, I think I was the only white guy there. And, uh, they, they had a legitimate beef with the city, and they were very angry. And somebody just saw me and walked over and socked me, knocked me right down.

Holy crap.

Yeah. So I told my wife then, I said, honey, we're gonna— I'm gonna go to another line of work. You know, this is it. It broke a couple of my teeth, and, you know, it was, it was very, very unfortunate. But anyway, it made me, made my mind up that let me go into something else. And for a while I tried teaching. I was a college professor for a little bit. I went down to Loyola in New Orleans. I taught there and so forth. But then I grew tired of that, and I wanted to go back into something that was action. I missed the action. And then I went into PR and I went back to New York and I was offered a nice job with a very, very prestigious PR firm. And I was given some of the biggest accounts to handle and I did very well. And I wrote speeches, I remember, for the chairman of the board of Kellogg's company.

Wow.

And at the time, the Federal Trade Commission was trying to break them up as an oligopoly, the three major cereal companies, you know. And so I wrote a lot of, you know, speeches for the chairman of the company. And many of them were printed in the New York Times, and he was very proud. You know, it was his, you know, not the speechwriter, doesn't get any credit.

You made him look good.

Yeah, the guy I'm writing speeches for, Bill LaMothe, was named at the time, his chairman then, and he was so proud and so excited to have his name appearing in front of very good speech that I had written urging them not to put Tony the Tiger into this other cage. He belongs where he is, you know, and I wrote a very compelling speech. Anyway, he flew in from Battle Creek to take me out to just, you know, give me a little treat, and he took me out Alas, for breakfast. And that's what happens when you represent Kellogg's Company, you don't go to dinner, you go to breakfast. But he took me to the Plaza Hotel, beautiful dining room there, and treated me to a beautiful breakfast. And he was very proud and very pleased and grateful for my work on his behalf and writing these speeches that got all this attention. Then American Broadcasting Company heard about me, and stop me if I'm just going along here, okay?

I love hearing it.

Anyway, ABC heard about me and they were looking for a speechwriter, and so they brought me in for an interview, and they gave me a nice position there. I was director of public relations, planning. And one of my jobs was writing speeches for the senior executives of the company, not just the network, but the entire company. It was a guy named Leonard Goldenson. He was the founder of ABC, a very powerful guy in television world. And I, you know, I used to train him for interviews, and I did media training there for all the executives. I wrote speeches for him. And one of the guys I wrote speeches for was the head of programming there, a guy named Fred Silverman. He was a wunderkind in television. I mean, the man was just a genius in programming. And I got to know Fred, wrote a lot of speeches for Fred. We used to travel around and so forth. And then Fred was offered the position of CEO, president and CEO of NBC. And I was honored that I was the only guy he took with him from ABC. So, you know, he invited me to jump ship and go to NBC, which is only 2 blocks away. It's not a big move, but it was a, a very important one because I was vice president, assistant to the president. It was almost like the number 2 slot at the network, so it was a very powerful position. So, uh, so that was a very interesting part of my career, and I enjoyed network television, and I enjoyed writing speeches for Fred and doing a lot of things I did when I was there. I promoted a lot of the shows. Uh, I used to— we used to fly around in the corporate jet, you know, and go to all the stations in various towns and cities, and, you know, giving them preview of what programming was upcoming, you know, keep them enthusiastic. And, uh, because we were in third place then when Fred took over there. I mean, that's why they hired Fred, bring him out of third place. It was only— these were the days when there were only three, right?

Right, right.

But, uh, you know, Fred brought ABC to number one when he was there. And now his job was to bring NBC to number one, which was difficult because in the television world, you know, you, you, you buy a lot of programs way ahead of time, so it takes a while to turn this big ship around, you know. And I was there about 3 years with Fred, and we were in the process of making things better and more productive and get the ratings higher. But it was taking a little longer than we both imagined. So I, I wound up leaving NBC and starting my own business, and that's how I started Transmedia Group, which is my public relations firm.

So I want to ask you a question. I'm going to stop you for a second. When I think of public relations, Growing up, so I'm 58 years old, went to school for journalism. I really want to be a journalist. I do believe everyone has a story and I love hearing people's story, especially when they're sick and their vacation. Like, I'm a weirdo, but I love those stories. But I always thought of PR is when there was a problem, you needed someone to be out there helping you with the PR. Was that, was that a skewed way of thinking when I was younger? 'Cause I never thought, that's the only way I looked at PR was that, oh, there's a problem, you need a PR person.

Well, yeah, it is somewhat limiting. PR is much broader than that. But you do, it is a very important part of PR and that is called crisis management. And companies make mistakes and the consequences can be extreme, affecting their sales, their revenues, their reputation, and so forth. So a lot of times, well, companies will bring in a crisis manager to handle a crisis. And I've handled many crises for a lot of big companies and small companies. I remember once there was a restaurant in Palm Beach, uh, and they poisoned about 200 people one night. And they all went to the hospital and everything, and they, they called me in to save them because they were surrounded by media. I mean, it was unbelievable story. And, uh, so I came up with a program for them, and I, um, I went to NASA. You know, they— we were, we were at that time, we were, you know, sending up rockets and so forth, and NASA NASA had a very, very fine, high-quality system of keeping safe and clean everything that the astronauts were using. So I asked them if they would give me the NASA program for keeping the kitchen in this restaurant clean.

Brilliant.

Yeah, and, and we started to promote that and saying this, this is now— has had this awful experience but they've made great strides and even incorporated the latest NASA science to keep it sterile and clean. And so it's probably the cleanest place in the world, on the planet, to eat right now. So, so we've gradually got people come back to the restaurant, and that's what crisis management people do. They, they come up with solutions. Once there was an orthopedic surgeon, and he installed about 300 faulty hip transplants in people, and his practice was unbelievably attacked because he had to take those out and put, you know, proper ones in. Can you imagine having to go back to your surgeon because he may put a faulty transplant? Well, he called me in and I, and I helped him with that, and, uh, and we I promoted him that he came up with a way of excising, taking out this trans with a minimum of pain and discomfort to the, to the person. Not only that, but I made him a lecturer in this whole area. Yeah, and he got a reputation with it. And then I pointed out the fact that it was the supplier of the transplants, not the surgeon. You know, people have to know who the guilty party is here. I made him the hero because he figured out a way of taking these things out with a minimum of discomfort, and he became very well known and appreciated for that. And we saved the guy's practice. We saved his practice. So we, you know, so these are the kinds of things that are part of PR, but they're only a part of PR. The main part of PR is creating awareness in products and services, but doing it in a way that doesn't sound like you're pounding your chest, you know, you're beating your chest saying how terrific you are. You'd get third parties to cite what a wonderful product it is, how it solves certain problem or whatever. And that's much more effective. So, you know, our relationships with media are like gold. I mean, you know, and we're able to create very credible reporting and that generates awareness of what companies want to be known for. And that's really the main stroke of public relations.

A lot of people get it confused, obviously, with marketing, and I can understand the confusion. I'm really curious if, like, how many of your employees have actually graduated with a degree in communications?

Well, yeah, that was, uh, very uncommon a while ago, but now communications has become a very popular curriculum for college students. A lot of students are majoring in communications and public relations and marketing and all those things, and they're coming to firms like mine with the underpinnings of some education in this area. So you're seeing more and more people are coming with some backgrounds, educational background. They They don't have the, you know, on-the-job training that we give them, but they do have a general understanding of the field. And so, I mean, that's helpful. But on the negative side, I'm noticing that a lot of young people today are, you know, they're good with their thumbs on their cell phones, you know, and quick and so forth. But getting into some lengthy writing, they need some help. And that's— that's nice noticing that that's more and more a situation, because I— a lot of the press releases, uh, you know, my daughter Adrian sends to me for— she calls it polishing. Polishing.

Oh, she has you polish her work? I love it.

I'm a polisher. I, you know, I have a little stand, you know, and I do the, you know, shoes and all that. But anyway, I, and I'm noticing that, you know, the young people are very clever, you know, they come up with some interesting ideas. Graphically, they're terrific. I mean, their mastery of the digital world is tremendous. Social media, they're great. But, you know, but getting things said succinctly and effectively and and underscoring what the essence of a story is and what's going to attract the media person. What's going to attract the media person? And that's something where I'm always constantly showing, doing more of this, less of this, and so forth. And as I polish, so I'm the boot black in the, you know, in the firm, and I do all the polishing. So anyway, so, but public relations also involves ideas in terms of what is the best way to present oneself, you know, and a lot of times I will, you know, we will look at a company and almost like you're going in for your first visit with a doctor. I mean, he'll He wants to see your general health and understand what it is you're trying to say and do. And, and then we'll come up with maybe some other ways of doing it that would be more appealing to media. And that's ultimately who we're trying to reach is media, because we want the media to tell our clients' stories, not ourselves. The media do it, but first we have to interest the media. And that's where we earn our stripes.

I think I would be good at it. I'm very strategic, and I'm all like, I'm the 10th man at the table. So I'm gonna— even if I'm not really thinking that way, I'm gonna try to get everyone to think a little differently so that they're looking at something. So now everyone's like, yeah, that's— yeah, okay, they do all that right. I wish that I could come back and do— I really do love the whole idea of PR and communications. And that is probably why I'm here talking to you, because I like having the conversations and learning and understanding. And I like the crisis part because then you really, you come in and you get to solve and come up with those solutions. And that really appeals to me too. I don't know if I told you, I'm a SCORE certified mentor. And I love that. So I work with a lot of different, you know, individuals that are looking to become an entrepreneur. And so they're all around the United States. I don't just work in Volusia, Flagler. And it got— what I love about it is I get to think, I get to learn about everyone's different industry. So I did that selling promotional products. So I'm selling, I, I sell to everyone. So I get to learn about whether it's unions or whether it's assisted living, all of that. And now I just— there's something in me that really likes the whole idea of crisis management, but I'm concerned. Do I like— do I just say, oh, I have all the— I could do it, or do I have to have the schooling or the education?

Yeah, well, you have to have the experience and you have to have been involved in these situations and see how the best way to handle them, you know, come up with ideas and things teams and so forth. But I'll tell you one thing, you know, seeing you and getting a sense of you, I could love to bring you to some meetings because you have energy, energy, and that's a very important part of our business. I mean, you know, people in the business world, they tend to get beaten up and laid back and A lot of them have lost a lot of their energy. So, I mean, it's a person like you would be, would be very good to bring into meetings because that's what people react to. They react to energy. Oh, you know, first comes that energy, that's the wind in the sail. And okay, then there has to be more than just wind. There has to be good ideas and, you know, clever strategies and, you know, thoughtful approaches. And that you learn. I mean, you learn by experience and seeing what has worked in the past for this company and that company. And it's not really a science, yet there are some basics that you should be aware of, and you learn them.

I would— that sounds interesting. I want to talk to you about negative campaigns. So I actually am a graduate of the Protocol School of Washington, so as an international corporate protocol and etiquette educator. And in my mind, you know, I just believe that there's got to be respect in politics. And there's so much negative campaign. And sometimes I'm like, who is the person behind, whether it's a politician or a business, that has like an odd campaign that doesn't make sense to me, that seems negative. And I know it's not their marketing, so I'm assuming it's their PR. And, and they're doing it and everyone kind of is like, oh, that doesn't really make sense. I don't understand how that happens. The best way to say it would be Winn-Dixie's campaign, we're getting better every day. I used to walk into Winn-Dixie and I would say to them, is today the day? And the girl would say, yeah. I say, well, I'm just curious, is today the day you're going to actually get better? So like, tell me a little bit about that, some of the situations of working with a company that just really can't get out from under themselves.

Yeah, no, I agree. I mean, negative messages don't have the potency, the liveliness, the enduring attractiveness that something positive does. However, in politics, unfortunately, negative campaigns do work. Unfortunately, that's why we see so many of them. People tend to vote against things rather than for things, and there is this tendency, if you know that somebody did this really unsavory thing or whatever, you could be swayed to vote for the other person. So negative campaigning does work. That's why these politicians, they hire people to just come up with negatives, find the negatives. We want to tear down the competition, tear them down. and it is, it does turn off the electorate because we're not inspired. We're voting more or less against things rather than for things, unfortunately. In commercial world, it's a little different. Commercial world, yeah, you want to believe in a brand. You want to respect that brand. You want to see that brand doing wholesome and wonderful things. You want it to stand for something, you know, and if it's using old-fashioned, you know, enjamins or whatever, you know, that can hurt that brand. So you want to sweep away anything that's going to be unpleasant to the core of your consumer. Your customers. So you really have to be ready to wipe clean whatever is going to be not scoring positively in the commercial world. Political world, something else. And that's why I think there is a low opinion of politics and politicians, because they keep slamming each other. And that's why even people who are serving in Congress, they're not the most admired, appreciated people in the world, by no means, right? Because they came from an atmosphere of this negative, uh, you know, uh, way of attacking one another. Even the media itself is not as respected because the media tend to look for for negative stories. They're much better circulation than a positive story. And unfortunately, I think the media have become more politicized than I've ever seen. Right. You know that certain organizations are for this point of view and others are from that point of view. And whatever happened to objectivity? It's unfortunate.

Thank you. Exactly. People have to know— I keep saying this— know the difference between a fact and opinion, and that'll get you a long way. All right, I'm gonna switch gears. You, you're an author. What, what is the love book? You have a love cruise, or the cruise book?

Well, you know, I, I don't play golf, so, uh, you know what, I'm not promoting clients and so forth. Uh, I, I like to write, so I, you know, I write the blog that I we mentioned earlier. And I also like to write books, and I think I've written 4 books so far, and I've helped others with their books. And I love literature, I love to write, and some of my books have done very well. And I remember I wrote a book some years ago called King of the Condo, and it was a big seller then.

What was it about? What is it about?

Well, it was about— it really, it was my way of getting even. I was the president of a condo and I had an assessment and people really didn't appreciate having to pay for a new lobby that was really, you know, like dated and needed, you know, a renovation. And they really resented the fact that I assessed everybody to pay for this. Renovation. But it's important when you walk into a building, you know, your lobby is the first thing you see, and you don't want it to look like it's from, you know, the year 1840. It should look presentable and modern. So anyway, I was kind of tortured as the president, and people would slip these very awful notes under my door at my condo. In my unit. They would put graffiti on my car. I mean, I was just— people were so nasty. And I actually, I had to leave that condo. I couldn't stand it anymore there. Wow. I left. Then I thought, well, let me write a book about my experience. And so I wrote this comedy thriller, you know, it's all about the residents trying to kill the president of the condo. Oh God, it was a murder mystery story.

That's awesome.

And I had so much fun creating these characters, which were based on real characters. They know who I was writing about. I changed the name, but they would be doing all these plots to kill the president of the condo, and it was fun. Funny. I thought it was kind of— people stood in line at the bookstores trying to get this book because they really enjoyed it. They saw what I was talking about.

And oh, I love that.

My— I wrote also a book about Trump about a couple years ago during the election, his first— when the election or his first term. And the book is Is there enough Brady to— for Trump to win the insuperable bowl? Anyway, I had some fun with that book too, criticizing Trump and complimenting him in some respects and criticizing him in others and having some fun and poking this, you you know, and, and that book was kind of well received too. So, uh, yeah, it's, uh, it's got that long title, but, uh, but it's a fun book. Now my latest book, uh, is called Love Boat '78, and, uh, I would urge anybody who is ever thinking about going into internet dating to read it.

Oh, okay.

Because I've had my extensive. I dove into internet dating, and I lost my wife about a year and a half ago, and I was very, very depressed, and I didn't know what to do, and I was alone. So people were saying, well, go out and meet people. And so Somebody suggested I join an internet dating site, which I did, and, uh, the reaction was unbelievable. Uh, it was a site called Millionaire Match, and, uh, and they put a picture of me, and, uh, you know, and I, you know, older guy, own some businesses, you know. Boy, did I get winks and works and all kinds of connections. I mean, women wanted to fly in from Australia to go out with me. I mean, it was just amazing. And I had all these experiences, and some of them, uh, really, really terrific, and some of them really stupid. And, uh, you know, and I, and I share a lot of experiences in this book about internet dating, the, you know, the, the pluses, the minuses, the pitfalls, uh, you know. And, and I learned a lot about it, and I talked to experts in internet dating, and I, and I, I, you know, I, I, I, I wrote about how you should present yourself, things you should be wary of, because that, you know, there are a lot of con artists there who are just trying to take advantage, you know. And they think you have a few bucks and older guy— oh boy.

Well, you're on a millionaire match site.

I mean, really.

It wasn't like the 10,000-watt light. That's awesome.

The funny part is that I, in the course of this, uh, and some of these experiences were really funny, and I could tell you a lot of stories, but, uh, I went into a neighborhood bar and I saw this beautiful blonde, uh, across the bar, and I was at lunchtime, and I, you know, I sort of toasted to her and she toasted back. I decided to walk over and talk to her and introduce myself, and about a month later I married her.

Rita?

Yeah, Rita.

Oh, she's beautiful too. I would have done the same thing.

She was— I mean, she was just perfect, and I needed somebody with her brains, her beauty, and she's also good with numbers. I mean, and I'm not, that's not my strength. I'm with words, not numbers, you know. But she filled that, that vacuum, boy. And we got married. I'm looking at my balcony here on the condo on the ocean, and we got married right on this balcony here. Oh, and And she's been a godsend, you know. And thank God I met her before this pandemic because—

oh, I'm so— I'm so— my parents were married almost, um, they were just, uh, 70 years, 69 years. My mom went first. My dad was a mess, a real mess. So it sounds like your first wife sent her to you. Not that I get courtly that way, but I was married 54 50. She wanted you to have someone beautiful. She put her in your life.

I pray that she's forgiving me for bringing another woman into this.

No, she's happy. I love it. I want to share something with you before I— before we go. I want to tell you, I came up with a solution to— okay, so I'm a whistleblower. I blew the whistle on the, uh, on the State Department of Health and a staffing company as a contact tracer. So if you Google my name, Adrienne Barker and contact tracing, you'll see the story. And I got so much like hate, like emails— I'm not emails, like people on social media after they saw the story on Channel 6 News, and then Channel 7 in Miami picked it up. And you know how I handled it? I gave everyone my cell phone number and told them to call me. I only had 2 people call me, and when I explained to them my side, they were— they apologized to me. But honestly, I was like, the only way to handle this is I'm going to just— here's my number, and if you have a problem or you want to hear my side or understand— because what happened is they would hear the story, but they wouldn't really get it. So they would think, oh, so what happened was the whole thing, the contact tracing job put me in a hotel and I ended up in this hotel for 4, 3 weeks getting paid but not being put on the job. And so I, first of all, I didn't know I was getting paid. And then when I got paid, I contacted the reporter. So I really wanted to work. I would be a great contact tracer. But anyways, I— a lot of people are like, well, you took the money. Well, I was, I was in a hotel and I stayed in the hotel and I didn't leave the hotel because I thought I got dressed every morning and was ready to go to work. I went down and took a swim for an hour and a half a day. So like, I didn't feel guilty. I was away from my husband and my daughter, my dog. And so, but that is how I handled my own like dealing with the social media. And I really would recommend it because Who cares if someone has your phone? I mean, I don't care if someone has my phone number, 386-631-4577. Try me. But anyways, I really don't mind because I talk to everyone. I love answering the phone. I love salespeople. So call me if you want to sell me something. I'm happy with that. And so seriously, so that's how I handled my own situation as a whistleblower.

Very good, very good. But you might want to think that over As you go higher up in, you know, the population that knows you, I mean, you know, you don't want, you don't want calls from thousands of people, but it was a good way of handling it. You know, you're open, your openness, you're ready to talk about something. It's very disarming.

Good. Thank you.

Good strategy.

Good. Thank you. Thank you. So it was really lovely talking to you. You're a lovely man. I got to meet Rita, who's beautiful. A shout out to Adrian. What good name— does Adrian have dark hair?

Adrian is, uh, she, she now lives in Port St. Lucie, so she's quite a distance from me now. She comes to Boca, you know, maybe once or twice a week, uh, but, uh, everybody's working remotely, you know. That's what it is.

Adrian, enjoy all your time with your father.

Huh, what's that?

Me too, me too. I hope I get— like, I go out a little bit, but I'm very careful. Always wear a mask because I cannot deal with the fact that I could make someone else sick. So I'm not that safe, and my daughter's in high school, so— and she's in school, so I always wear a mask only because I just couldn't live with the fact that I— if I was a spreader. So I just, I just have to wear a mask.

I commend it. In fact, I'm going to a meeting right after this, and I told these gentlemen, even though we're going to be in the boardroom, we're all going to wear our masks during the meeting because, you know, we're still sitting at the same table, we're still, you know, breathing the same air, and I think it's a lot safer if we keep masks on, so especially interior. Space. Outside, different, but inside, yes, I think masks are very important. So we gotta— we don't want to spread, and we don't want to be the victim either.

And you don't want to be on the news, because actually, I'm surprised there's that many stories about, you know, businesses that are having a COVID-19 crisis. Maybe they knew an employee was sick and made them come in, and everyone got sick. That kind of like horrible story. So you got to be careful. Absolutely. So have a great rest of the day.

Well, you too. It's been fun talking to you. Your energy gives your guests a little boost. So it's nice to talk to someone like you because you keep it lively.

Thank you so much. Lively. All right, have a great day. Thank you so much. I gotta go order your books right now.

My pleasure. Thank you.

Bye-bye. Thank you. Awesome, everyone. Wasn't that amazing?