Navigating New Leadership: Essential Advice for First-Time Managers

Welcome back to the Ally from Corporate Podcast. I'm your host, Allie, and today we have a very special guest. Her name is Jen Arnold. I met her at a Culture Amp event in Las Vegas a few months ago, and I just adored her immediately, and I had to get to know her. I interview her today in our episode about management. Our episode specifically is about if you are a new manager or if you are suddenly finding yourself managing a new team of people that you didn't have any say in hiring. Maybe you just got a job as a new manager at a company. We are going to talk about how to lead in a humble way, how to get to know your team. In this episode, we talk about how to create 30, 60, 90 day plans for your team and how to lead in a way at the beginning of your journey at a company where your team is going to respect you and value your leadership. So Jen is the owner of Growth Signals, and Growth Signals is a company that helps leaders say the sometimes difficult things that need to be said. So, without further ado, I'm going to introduce Jen and we're going to talk about a very special message that one of my followers wrote in about being a new manager and the tough times they're having. As always, you guys know that you can write into me about any problems you're having and you might make it into the next episode. So without further ado, here's Jen. Welcome, Jen. I'm so excited to have you here.

Hey, Ali, it's great to be here. Thanks for having me.

So every week on my podcast, I usually have listeners or followers or fans write in and they ask questions. And I have a perfect one that I've been saving for you because you are an expert with leadership guidance, helping leaders be better at work, lead their teams. So can I read this to you and can we talk about it a little bit?

Please do. Let's go.

Okay, so this writer writes in and they said, dear Allie and Jen, I'm an engineering manager and I just took a new job. I will be managing a team of eight very smart individuals. I'm one week in so far, and I'm already feeling like I'm behind. I desperately want to make a good first impression. I should be leading this team and guiding them, right? Well, they're guiding me so far. They're teaching me and it feels so weird. What advice can you give me as a new manager on this team? I really want to get this right.

Great question. And it's a common one for new leaders. And they. It didn't really say if they were a new leader or not, but they're new to the team and probably new to the organization. So it sounds like that person is maybe not new to management. We don't know, but they are leading a new team of eight very smart people and feeling like they are being led and maybe that they need to go in and be the leader. Right. So my advice for anyone going into a new leadership role, especially in a new organization, you really have two primary goals, in my opinion, at least. One is to build relationships, and two is to create some kind of certainty and we can get into what both of those means. But you don't know what you don't know. And if you go in as a leader, like new to an organization, and you're trying to act like you know what's going on, people will call BS on it miles away. Right. So, yeah.

And this is your first impression, too.

Yeah. And they've already been in a week. They're stressed out. And when you're stressed out, that shows.

Yeah.

And so, first of all, I encourage this new leader to just reframe a little bit on the mindset, the mindset he or she is going in with. It's kind of like if you go visit a foreign country. Right. If you're going to go, let's just say we, like in our family, we want to go to Japan. And before we go to Japan, we're going to do all this research, we're going to watch YouTube videos, we're going to start learning a little bit of the language. But when you get there, everything's going to be a little bit not like what you've learned, right? Yeah, you're right. Is culture shock. Culture shock, yes. And every organization has a different culture, Right. Ally, you've worked in bunch of different organizations. So have I. Right. Every culture is unique, so it is really adopting this beginner's mindset. It doesn't matter if you're in a leadership position. If you're the CEO, you may have a. A semblance of a plan forming. Forming. But you need to go in and say, I'm a beginner here. I am going to go in. I'm going to be open, I'm going to be curious. Nobody's going to be mad about that, right?

No. And when you show humility right out the gate, I feel like that is a great way to earn the respect of your team. Because if you come in guns blazing with all this, like, false confidence, you might come off as kind of an a Hole.

No, you will.

Can you.

I mean, can you imagine? You've been there. Let's just put, you know, take the other side of the coin. You're in that team, you're on that team. You've been there, let's just say even five years. And you get some new boss that comes in and acts like they know it all and they know your organization and they have plans for you.

Yeah.

You know, it goes against that number one principle that I think is build relationships and that's already going to turn people off. So I think going in there, if this person could reset, the team is going to be leading you. What's wrong with.

For a while. And if we think about it, if we keep going with that and think about it, from these eight individuals who are, I'm assuming, individual contributors, what just happened to them when they suddenly had to need a new manager? Did their manager get let go? Did their manager pass away? Did their manager quit? Did their manager get promoted? So there's some, I wouldn't even call it corporate grief, but like, you know, like feeling sad when somebody leaves. But something just happened to this team that they needed a new manager. And that can stir up some emotions, too. And so you're coming into the scene and you're kind of like taking over. You don't know if you're taking over for somebody who was beloved by their team or if you're saving the day and you are like, your team is like, thank goodness there's this new manager. I hope that they're nothing like the old manager.

Or maybe one of your direct reports applied for the job and they didn't get it.

I have spoken to people that are so pissed about that. They hate that. They're like, why was I. And also, actually, I talked to my friend's son last week about this and he. She put him on speakerphone and she goes, or he was telling me, yes, they just hired me a new manager because mine quit and this guy knows nothing. And I wanted that job and I'm way more qualified than this guy. Now, granted, he'd only been there for like two weeks as this new manager. But, you know, if somebody has applied for that role and they didn't get it, there might be some animosity, too.

Yes, yes. You don't. What you exactly did, you don't know what you're walking into. So if you're going to go in guns blazing, then they're going to automatically not help you. And you need allies on your side. You need your team to Want to work for you. Right. There's no command and control in this day and age. You need to really think about going in there, the beginner's mindset and asking a ton of questions. Yeah, how is this team really strong? Where can they improve? What did you like about your last leader? You know, there's a ton of open ended questions, but the bottom line is going to meet with every single one of those eight very smart individuals. And even if you have to say something like, hey, I know this may not be the best case scenario for you, like I don't know what I'm stepping into, I know you're very smart and you're very capable, like so just kind of just telling them that. I mean obviously the person who wrote in, they acknowledge that these people are smart. So maybe just admitting that and saying, hey, I'm just trying to get a lay of the land. Here are some things that I'd like to know. But meeting with them individually with that open mind and actually listening, listening to their responses and they can also be the key to helping you across the organization. If you're asking who, who do we need our support, like who what other departments, what other leaders do I need to meet with? Who do we need on our side? And so getting that whole political landscape is vital. And if you go in acting like you're the big boss, nobody, they're not going to help you, they're not going.

To help you and they're going to talk amongst themselves because they probably have a rapport in a relationship. These eight individuals that have just gone through this change in leadership and they're going to talk and you want them to be saying good things about you. Like I think the ideal case would for them to be having lunch and say, how do you like our new manager? Oh, I just had a one on one. He actually seems really great. I like him so far. Yeah, me too. Like that would be best case scenario.

He seems to care about what I say. He seems to want our input in our feedback. Great. Let's just say getting back to the question, that person came in and maybe they're going, oh, this isn't going so well. This is where you have to be humble. And I think you said this at the beginning, Allie, be humble and go, hey, can we redo that? This didn't go well. You. I encourage leaders to be vulnerable and to say, hey, I've realized that I don't, there's a lot I don't know and I need your help. Would you be willing to Help me so I can be the leader you need me to be. Right.

That is such a great way to phrase it. Would you help me be a leader? No, I interrupt all the time. What were you gonna say? I love that question. How can, can you help me be the leader that I need to be? That's great.

Right. And then what is a leader? You need to be like, what, what, what do you need in a leader? Right. So asking them that. And so it's that relationship building and it's where I think especially under stress, we go to very like our, our normal behaviors are, are not the ones that are just ingrained in us. Right. I call them go to behaviors. So when we're stressed we might get more defensive. Are our minds shut down instead of open up? So I think it's like, how can you get out of that stressful defensive mindset, that closed minded mindset that we all go into as humans? How can you just say, okay, let's restart this, build the relationships, knowing that that may be happening. I think very stressed with some of the words that you, that you read.

Yeah.

I think also in addition to building relationships, going back to uncertainty and how can you as a new leader provide certainty for them? They don't know what you're going to be like. And given what we said, there's all these scenarios, you don't know what happened. But, but regardless, they knew what to expect from their last manager more than likely. Right. They knew what to expect. They could have worked with them for a long time and then all of a sudden here comes this person coming in. They're like, we don't know, we don't know. And so again, they're talking about you perhaps like, hey, have you heard about the new leader? Or what do you know that I don't know? Yeah. So guess what? They're not focused on what their work, they're not working right. They're doing what they need to do. But it's also, how can you be upfront sharing your leadership style, sharing some expectations, even sharing, hey, for the next 30 days, I just plan to ask a lot of questions and at the end of 30 days, I'll share with you what I found and you can punch holes in it. Hey, here's what I think. What do you think? Did I get it right?

I love that because it makes it sound like a partnership. Not like a boss, but somebody who's leading. Almost like leading from behind, like servant leadership where you're like, let me help guide you. You know, you were hired to Do a job, Let me help remove the obstacles for you. But 30 days can feel like a long time. Even as an employee who's just starting out, who's not a manager, 30 days of onboarding and learning the culture, learning the product, learning all the systems in place, it can feel like a long time to not be making an impact.

Absolutely. And I think you. 30 days goes by like that. And I think it's also one of the hardest things about being a leader, especially if you're in the middle realm, which is what I usually work in. You also have your boss's expectations, right? That you have, you were hired perhaps to do something and your team may or may not know, may not be transparent, but you do have to find that balance. If you can say, here are my boss's expectations and now that I've talked to my people, you know, and if you want to give yourself two day, two weeks, but if you have eight people, those one on ones can take you all week, depending on schedules and other meetings. So 30 days may seem long, but I think you at least need to give it that. Otherwise, like how, how do you even know? Right?

Like 30 days, you might only have a one on one with each person four times. That's not enough to get to know somebody well.

And that's not, I mean, let's, let's be realistic. That ain't happening.

But that's just not.

If they meet once or twice in a 30 day period with each of those eight people. Yeah, that would be phenomenal. Um, so I think it's just, it's, it's going okay. I need to understand that the political landscape, the, the culture here in this organization. I need to understand what my boss expects of me. I need to understand what my team expects of me in the way of, you know, the challenges, how the leader can help them, overcome them. And then could they give them an early win? Is there some kind of win that they could give them on within that 30 days, if possible? So if there are some kind of roadblock the team's experiencing and it would help, you know, it's, it's in line with what your boss wants, right. You always have to balance the two. Is there something you can do in 30 days to say, hey, thanks for that, that feedback? Let me see what I can do. Go see if you can do it. And if you can, that's a win, right? And that earns trust.

That's huge. Earning trust is so big right out the gate because you can when you have this win, especially with A group you're establishing or you're, you're gaining a sense of camaraderie, which, I mean, they've done studies on the military. Like, when morale is down, they perform not as good as when they have a sense of high camaraderie. Even football teams, like, when they have a win together, they just feel like their bond is stronger and they can go so much further together.

Absolutely. And then you're going, all right, when's the next win? When's the next one? Right. We've got this, this team together. So I think that can be super helpful. It just to do it within 30 days. It may be even tough depending on what you've got on your calendar. So, you know, I, I believe in a 30, 60, 90 day plan. Some leaders do 100 the first hundred days. Like, it really just depends on a lot of different roles and your preferences. But I do think when you mention trust, the other thing that just really builds trust is transparency. So getting back to, hey, you know, you know a lot of things better about this organization than I do. Here are the expectations that are put on me. Like, here's what I want you to know. Like what I've been hired to do.

Yeah, right.

And, you know, I need your help doing that. Like, you can't do it. You're being a leader. It's not your responsibility to get it done yourself. You work through it.

No, and hopefully you're not, hopefully you're not trying to step on toes and do things yourself. Hopefully you're like enabling your team as you're first starting so that they can feel empowered and not like you're micromanaging them. But you mentioned something a couple seconds ago. For anybody listening who's a new manager who's never heard of a 30, 60, 90 day plan, can you tell us briefly what that is and why somebody would want one or need one.

It's really just outlining, like, what do you want to do in 30 days? Right. We talked about maybe 30 days for you is I'm just going to get to know the whole team. I'm going to get to know a few stakeholders and get to know my boss better. And I do recommend coming back and saying, hey, team, here's what I found out. You know, here's where everyone has said our strengths are, here's where everyone said our weaknesses were. Use it as a working session. And then, you know, 60 days is more of, okay, you're formalizing what, what you've been seeing and trying to match that up with the Expectations, right? Your team goals, your team strategies. And then by the end of 90 days, you'd be having like a clear plan. Here's my vision for the team, right? Here's where I want us to go. Because it is also your job as a leader not to do the work, but to say, here's the vision for the team. Here's my vision for our team based on what you told me. And here's how it links up with the bigger organization's mission, because I've made that mistake. I've led teams into a place that was great for us, but it wasn't connected to the organization. And, you know, that wasn't the best thing to do as a leader either. So it's giving yourself your time frame. I did 30, 60, 90 days because I feel like it's doable chunks and it's saying in my mind it's 30 days, you get to know your team, 60 days, you start formalizing what year is the strategy, poking holes, right? Saying, here's where we're strong as a team, here's where we're, we're not so strong, and how do we really create a stronger team? How do we solve for the weaknesses? And then 90 days, here's where we're going, right? And hopefully you've gotten them on board in the meantime. Because otherwise, if you go in there thinking you know everything and you're like, I've got this great strategy at the end of 30 days and people are like, what the hell is this guy talking about or this lady talking about, right? And they're not going to help you. So, yeah, that, that's why I go back to number one, building relationships. But two, with the 30, 60, 90 day plans, if you communicate that, that's transparency. People know what you're after, they know what they're trying to achieve. They don't have to sit there and wonder and then take their brain resources to wondering what you're going to do versus doing the work.

I love that. Great advice for anybody listening who is in the situation where they just got a new manager or maybe they just started a job and they're working for somebody they've never worked for before. I've done something cool with a 30, 60, 90 day plan before, especially working remote. So in case anybody is suddenly finding themselves working for a micromanager, something you can do to nip that in the bud is if you have a 30, 60, 90 day plan, you can create a shared document with the plan and you can share it with your manager and you can say every few days I'm going to update this on what I've made progress with, with this, the 30 day plan, the 60 day plan, the 90 day plan. Sometimes the 30 day plan is meet with this person, meet with this person, meet this person for the first time. So you can like check off the box so your boss knows instead of coming and asking you like, hey, have you done this yet? Have you done this yet? What's the status on this? They can actually go into this document and say, oh, she's checked the box, she's met with Frank. Okay. She's met with Rachel. And they can kind of see like they're making progress with the 30, 60, 90 day plan. Instead of having to go in and like micromanage you and say, hey, what's the status of this? So that's what I like doing as an employee.

We're going to have to come back and talk about micromanagers because I love it really is. I've had a micromanager and I luckily we had a pretty good relationship. I went a different route and I had a conversation and to say, hey, you know, when you do this, here's how it impacts my work. And we had a really great relationship after that. Specifically he needed to do it. For whatever reason he needed to do it. But he stopped after that. Not at all will stop. But I think there's different routes you go with micromanagers. But what you said also brought up a thought here. Let's just say that you are working for a new boss, a new leader and they're not doing any of this. Right. They're just going about their day, set a meeting with them. Right. They may be so lost in, in stress trying to do the right thing because there are a lot of expectations, there is a lot of stress on a new leader. It may be self imposed, it could be imposed from their upper leadership. Right. Then go schedule it with them. Hey, I'd really like to get to know you. I'd like you to, to know me. Right? So I think, I bet a manager would love that. I would. As a leader I would have loved somebody to be like, yeah, sure, yeah. To be proactive so I didn't have to do it.

Yeah. Or like, hey, hey, new manager, let me help you come up to speed. There's some things that you should know that maybe nobody's going to tell you.

Yes. Oh my God. To have that person on your team that's willing to be your person to tell you what's really going on and that you can trust. That's huge.

That would be huge. And sometimes I make videos about this. How to be your manager's favorite. And although it's not great to have favorites, maybe managers have favorites.

Please.

I think parents might also, but we don't want to get into that. I think that if you are good about being upfront with bad news, if you can give feedback in a constructive way, and if you can help your manager avoid surprises, especially a new manager, they will love you for it. They will trust you. That is how to earn their trust, is help them avoid looking bad in front of others.

Yes. I remember I used to have a person on my team who would always come into our one on ones and she'd be like, hey, Jen, how are you doing? Like, she actually cared, right? It wasn't like for a show or anything. We ended up being friends when I left. I mean, we were. We got to be friends, but she just showed genuine concern because no one tends to care about the boss. They always just want something from the boss. And maybe that was her way of getting it, whatever. But it worked, right? Like, I felt like, oh, God, someone's not asking for something. They're asking how I am. And it felt genuine and wow.

And sometimes employees assume that their manager has their stuff all together. They've got all their ducks in the road. They're the manager, they're good. But yeah, ask your manager, hey, how are you? And mean it. Not just quick small talk. Hey, how are you? Good, how are you? Not like that, but like, really check in. I one of my managers at a previous job, sometimes when I would ask him how he was, he would tell me about some of his mental health, struggles with depression and anxiety. And it made me feel more connected with him because he wasn't acting like this perfect, flawless person, like a leader, you know, like our vision of a leader. They're on this pedestal. But he was, like, really honest with me and it made me feel so much closer to him. And yeah, I, I love it when people really ask how you are. And so this is a good tip for employees to ask their new managers, hey, how's. How's your first week going? Do you have any questions? Yeah, don't wait.

Right? I mean, you can and that's fine, but they may never get around to setting a meeting for you. So just be proactive. I think that's really important.

Yeah, I love that. So you're giving such good information. How can people find out more? Do you have any resources that you can share?

Yes, Allie, just for your audience, I created a Day one leader guide. So what is in there are the five steps I talked about. Mindset, asking questions and actually have some questions you can ask. Setting expectations for success, the 30, 60, 90 day plan, and then finding an early win. All of these are detailed out along with the questions and I will make sure you get the link so you can put it down below where people can access it. But it's, it's a lot that we just talked about. Right. So if they could just have this chart, maybe it'll help them have a successful time starting at a new company.

That's great. Thank you for making that. I will definitely link it to these episodes and any, anything that can help people because I bet there's more than one person in this situation right now who's hoping they can hit the ground running, but maybe needs to take a step back, take a deep breath and just go easy for the first few weeks and just observe.

Just observe. And I heard this recently and it's in the guide, but people first, strategy second. Right. I love that you can't have a strategy if people aren't willing to help you implement it and execute it. So focus on the people. As hard as that is sometimes. Usually my personality type is like that. You just want to go in, get stuff done. Yeah. So if you're like us, then it is hard to slow down and work with the people. But it's going to help you in the long run. They're going to trust you. They're going to support you in your leadership because you want it to be a long run. Right. Not just a short stint before, you know, it just doesn't work and you have to go somewhere else.

Yeah, I love that. People first, strategy second. Great. Well, it was so good having you on. Thank you for all this good information. I'm definitely going to share this episode with the person that asked if anybody listening or watching has any other questions about work or leadership or management or getting laid off. I know that's been happening lately. Feel free to write in. You can reach me on literally every platform. I'm everywhere. But Jen, how can people reach you if they have any more questions?

Yeah, they can either find me at growthsignals co and it's co not.com or they can find me on LinkedIn. So feel free either way. And if they want to email me directly, they can get me@jen grosssignals co.

Okay. And on LinkedIn, you are Jen Arnold.

I am. I think I'm Jen P. Arnold? Because I think there's a million other Jen Arnolds, but I think I'm Jen P. Arnold. There.

We gotta differentiate ourselves somehow.

I'll make sure I share the link with you so that can get in there.

Perfect. Well, thank you so much. I'll chat with you later. Bye, Jen.

Thanks, Allie.