Navigating Workplace Challenges

Welcome back to the Ally from Corporate Podcast. If you're interested in learning more about career development, job searching, and growing as the badass professional I know you are, you've come to the right place. So sit back and relax. Let's get into it.

Today we're going to talk about if you can make it back from a pip, that is. What is that? An improvement plan, basically from your company.

Yeah. Performance improvement plan. It's basically suicide by corporate.

Yeah. So today we're going to talk about that. Have you ever been on one?

Yeah, I have. I left immediately.

Really?

Mm.

How did that work out? Did it. Did you not?

Well.

So I've. I've. So the only place that I've ever gotten, like, a feedback session was when I was out and the customer complained about me because the personalities didn't fit. And so then I had a meeting with the owner of the company and my boss for two hours, and they tried to drill me into something that I did not agree with. And so after two hours of talking, I was like, well, that was great, but I didn't take anything away from it. And you just wasted two hours of time. And they took notes the whole time, like, I don't agree, so let's agree to disagree. And we kind of left. So what was your case?

My case was I was being sexually harassed at work by a guy, and I told him to knock it off, and he didn't. So I went to HR and they said, oh, you're being sexually harassed. Okay, well, we're not going to acknowledge that. Instead, we want to let you know that your performance has been lacking, and we're going to put you on a performance improvement plan. And if you don't like that, then you can. We'd like you to resign by May 15. They gave me like, a date, and I was like, oh, okay, that really hurts.

That's like.

That was probably very illegal also. I have learned now I talk about it in my book. That whole experience, it was terrible. But a performance improvement plan is if you are not performing up to your. Your job duties, if you are not taking your responsibility seriously, if you. Your boss knows you're a quiet quitter, if you're just not getting the results. Remember Brittany Peach that worked for Cloudflare, and she worked there for three months, didn't close one account.

Horrible. She.

They could have put her on a pip and said, hey, you need to close more accounts, and if you don't within six months, we're gonna. So that's what a PIP is for. But rarely do people actually turn it around, change their entire, you know, realm of productivity, and, like, start executing better at the company. It's. If somebody puts you on a pip, it's a polite invitation to leave and you should start job searching the day you get put on a pip.

Yeah. Yeah, I could see that.

Yeah.

So these questions. So this is not a random topic that we are actually doing right now. So these are actually people that asked that DM us and asked, hey, can you elaborate on some topics? So if you have a question or want us to cover something on the podcast, then you can just DM us. And we're now working on getting more people on the podcast. So we have some really cool guests lined up that are going to join the podcast and we're going to give a lot more valuable insights than just me and Ali talking. We're actually going to invite real subject matter experts in their field to give their opinions. And if you have somebody that would think be a great fit, DM us. And we can then have them on the podcast and we will have a discussion. And if you guys have questions, we're here to answer them and go into depth with them. So I know we haven't been doing a podcast since, like, last year. It took us quite some time to ramp up. We have some big things coming this year. That's why we have not been focusing on the podcast that much. Unfortunately. Unfortunately, we also had to figure out some kinks in our end, and these are now resolved. So you can be rest assured more podcasts are coming with a lot more knowledge.

What are you talking about? What did we resolve on our end?

So we had audio issues with the podcast. We had filming how we're gonna do it, how we're gonna do virtual interviews.

And have you had your lighting issue, too?

We had lighting problems. We had. We had just a bunch of kinks. Then we were on vacation, then there was so much going on, and we're gonna launch a huge program in February. So I'm just giving the listeners some bunch of excuses. A bunch of excuses. Had to take some time. Had to take some time to do things. So now we're going to be back and now we're going to jump into the questions.

Yeah. All right, so we have two questions, and they're both about getting feedback at work. So I'm going to read the questions, then we're going to talk about them. First question, hey, Ali, can you do a video on pips performance improvement programs and how to recover from them? I work for a Big corporation and I was given a pip unfairly and unjustly. But because I was able to prove my manager was using malicious intent and didn't give me proper training, the company found another position for me. I'm still with the company. I have been for over two years and I have other companies offering me way more. I haven't gotten any bad performance reviews ever in my professional career. But because of the pip, I have to now pay for grad school instead of getting the tuition reimbursement benefit because my new group said I have to perform good for a year to get approved from grad school. But my main objective right now is not to burn any bridges. Just wanted your professional insight on how to handle this situation.

Ooh, this is a tough one.

So when somebody says that they were able to prove their manager was using malicious intent, that sounds very aggressive to me.

My, my suggestion when I hear that you should never ever go against your manager. Never.

Unless they are harming you. Like protectors, like what's it called when somebody breaks into your house. And you can, you have the right to protect yourself.

Self protection, but not with your man. Your manager is your go to. He can give you jobs, he can make your life easier, he can cover for you. And this is the crucial part. He can make your life hell, hell on this. He can nag about you showing up a minute late after lunch. He can nag that you logged off early. He can start investigating how you write emails, what do you do? And he can start giving you the boot in a whole bunch of things and tell you these emails weren't written professionally. Even though they were. This isn't, you know, you can't just talk to anybody. You need to come to me and talk first and increase your workload to get something done by a factor of 10x. So if you're going to pick up a fight with your manager, you need to leave. You need to or get another manager to take you over and be like, hey, I our personalities don't match up and you can be transparent with your manager if you haven't burned a bridge and be like, hey, I'm looking to transfer to another, into another sector of the company. That's really interesting to me. That kind of fits me better from, you know, from, from engineering to project management or from project management to HR and just see how it goes.

Well, they said they did that. They said the company found them another position. But they also are saying that they have other companies offering them way more than leave, leave. You've already made an enemy at that company of your manager. The company already knows that you're able to prove somebody has malicious intent and you're already on a pip. Those are three strikes against you. Sorry to say, but it's not looking good. Accept one of those other offers and hightail it out of there.

That's what I would do. I'd be out if I get an offer with more money, better benefits. What are you waiting for? Is it more commuting? Do you have other stuff? But if somebody offers me more money, I'm out if I don't have the option.

Also, this person's writing in that they just took away the tuition reimbursement benefit. So sometimes when you work for a company, one of the benefits is if you go to grad school while you work there, they will pay your tuition, which is an amazing benefit. If they're starting to take benefits away, that's an invitation that you are not welcome there. Remember when I worked for that little company that started taking benefits away?

Yeah. Time to leave. It's time to get out.

Left. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So shall we read the second question from one of our listeners?

Let's listen to it.

Okay. What are your thoughts on 360 leadership evaluations? I am a manager with a growing team. I'm of the opinion I deserve a promotion to a bigger role. I'm fairly concerned. My manager believes the same. Their boss, however, seems to have less confidence in me. They seem way more concerned about pedigree and my education than anything else. I was just told no promotion, but I have to do 360 training. Is this a way to help me or keep me on the line until they can bring in someone else with a fancier degree to lead the team I've assembled and take the job I've earned? Mind you, I have a master's degree from a great school, just not an elite school. What do you think?

If they want. If your manager. This is what I learned. This is from personal experience. If your manager wants you to have an Ivy League degree and that's what he core values and you don't have that, there's no way that he's going to promote you because that's one of his core values and so he's not. You can be the best employee you can be. You can already do all the job duties that it requires to be there and people in your field can love what you're doing and your manager can say everything is like, hey, you know, I want to be, you know, going up to the director level. If you don't have what they want on top, you're not going to get it.

They'll never love you.

They don't cherish what you bring to the table. And it's time to get out.

Yeah. So I want to define what 360 leadership evaluations are. I've been a part of a company that's done those a few times. What it is, is if you're a manager, you request feedback from your co workers, your manager, and your direct reports. So 360, you're seeing how people view you in the organization. Are you a good boss? Are you a good employee? Are you a good coworker? What could you improve on? So this person's asking, they want a promotion, but they got told no, and they have to get some feedback first. If I'm reading in between the lines there, somebody is wanting to tell them something that they need a growth in. Or how do I rephrase that? If I said, hey, I want a promotion, and somebody said, no, we need to get you some feedback from everybody first. Maybe you should really take that feedback to heart in reaching for that promotion. Maybe there's something that somebody's going to tell you that's holding you back from the promotion. And it's definitely not your degree. Like, that'll never change. Unless you suddenly went to Harvard and got your degree.

Something's not right. But if it's the degree, you don't know, maybe it's biases that they don't, that they just don't want you there. But that's an excuse for them. It's like, you know, in sales, it's the objection, but you don't know what the true objection is. And if I was them, I probably don't want to find out either. Because if you find out the true reason. So if you're going to go on a, on a digging spree and you're going to start asking coworkers and you're starting like, start to pick up the scabs and starting to really find out the reason. And you might not like that answer. And then it's going to be even worse because then you know how people truly felt. Or this boss just, that's. That has the final say, just says, I just don't like the guy. I don't like how he looks. I don't like how he talks. He's annoying as shit. He's just doesn't. He's not going to, he's not going to do it as long as I'M there. And so you might not want that answer. And I personally also would not want that answer. So I'd be looking for an opportunity elsewhere.

So I completely disagree with you and I would welcome. If it was a healthy, constructive work environment where feedback was given in a healthy, constructive way, I would welcome that feedback. Because if you trust the people giving you that feedback, it is an opportunity to grow and become a better professional. But if you're right, if the feedback is like, yo, we don't vibe with you, that's not constructive. But if the feedback is, we need better communication written in emails from you, your emails are vague. If it's like really specific feedback, that's awesome, wouldn't you say?

I don't think that that's. Because then the boss could then in, in his approach, it could have said, hey, love to give you a promotion, you need to do A, B and C and then you'll get it. You just need to improve on these few things and you'll get it. Didn't sound like that. Seems there was. Because a pedigree isn't about communication. It's not about work ethic. It's not that you leave five minutes before everybody else, it's just not about that. There is something deeper. You could have said something in a meeting that really rubbed them wrong. And he's like, no bloody way am I going to ever give or work with this guy directly on my level or underneath me. There's just. And there's people that just don't harm, you know, that just don't have, like a harmony together, you know, and you want to, as a leader, you want to work with a team that resonates with you, that does. You know that you guys vibe together, you know that you understand each other and sometimes it just doesn't vibe. And when it doesn't vibe, it doesn't flow. And when it doesn't flow, there's no money and there's no promotion.

So going back to both of these questions, I want to talk about a couple interview questions that these two people could have asked to avoid this situation altogether. So the first person about the Pips, they're saying that their manager didn't train them properly. So an interview question that they should be asking next time they job search is, can you tell me about the print, the training and onboarding that your company provides so that I can do a great job and hit the ground running?

So actually, I agree, but I've been interacting way More on LinkedIn the past few days and people say they go slide you in the interviews and say, oh, this is great. We have all these standard processes. And then your manager says, ah, screw all that. I need you on the floor, you yesterday. So your, your pro, your, you know, your training is out the window. Start, start wrenching and start doing, you know, whatever, whatever we're, whatever we're going to do. Unless you go to, like, Google or like one of these huge companies that have resources where you cannot be productive for a long time, a month or two, where you can be a contributing member of the company, most of the times they're like, here's your tool bags. This is. You already got this. Let's start setting you up. And let's, let's set you up because you need to produce.

So another interview question that the second person could ask about360 leadership is when they interviewed with that person, they could have asked, what is important to you, an employee? What sorts of things could I do to get promoted in this role eventually?

What would you say to that?

If I were the manager?

No, if you were the candidate. What. I feel like when you ask these questions, they're really nice to ask, but how transparent are they going to be? Because your manager is going to have maybe HR on the call, other people on that call. So they're going to tell you all the glorious things in the company. And it's not, I feel like it's not where they're going to say, oh, you know, we don't have, we don't really have an onboarding process. If somebody listens to this podcast and never heard somebody say in an interview, oh, we don't really have an onboarding process, I would love to know, because I feel like nobody would say that. I wouldn't say that.

Nobody would say that. But there's a way where you can listen to somebody's answers and know they're BSing you. If somebody's like, oh, yeah, our onboarding process is awesome. You watch a series of videos and then you go to a happy hour and that's about it. I'd be like, okay. But if somebody's like, yeah, are on. If they're very detailed about their description of the onboarding process, yeah, you get a mentor, you get an onboarding buddy. We'll check in a week and a half into it from you. You go to orientation where you meet other new. If they're very specific, that's a good indicator. They have a strong onboarding process. But if they're like, yeah, our onboarding process is super great, that's an indicator that they're not telling the truth or their onboarding process really sucks.

Could be, could be, could, could. You know, I feel like, I feel like it's in interviews. It's like dating. It's just like a little. It's like a little dance. It's like, you dance, you want to be the best side of you, and they're going to show the best side of them. And it's not a way of. Unless you can. Unless you have somebody that's already in the company and does that and you can be like, hey, how is it working at X, Y and Z? And they can be like, oh, it's great, but onboarding sucks. You know, payroll doesn't happen every two weeks. Sometimes it happens every two and a half weeks because they're just late and, you know, so much shit going on and, you know, and it's not going to happen in a, in a Fortune 500 company. But now that everybody's working in a Fortune 500 company. Right. So startups all. You know, it depends where you work at. It really depends where you work at.

So what you're describing is networking during the job search process. So anybody can message anybody on LinkedIn and say, hey, I'm interviewing at the company you work at. How was your experience with onboarding? Did you feel like you were properly trained? The co worker that is not involved in interviewing and hiring you will be way more honest. They'll be like, yeah, it sucked. Or they'll be like, yeah, it was really great, actually. And they have no skin in the game for whether you get hired or not. So they're going to be honest. So absolutely. If you're applying at a company or even interviewing in a company network with people who would be your future co workers and ask them, hey, how's this person's management style? I'm interviewing to be on their team. Or, like, you'll get way more honest answers from people on LinkedIn than you will during an interview.

Yeah, I think so. I think so. And I also read the news, see what, what statements they had. And nowadays with the firing and, you know, how they value employees where TikTok is a huge, huge part of letting people go. And you need to, to do a quick search on your behalf and see how, how people are being let go. So in that Britney Brittany Peach incidents, just crazy how that all happened. And if I was in that company, I'd be asking myself questions like, hey, what happened to that? What happened to her could happen to me?

Yep.

And so it's, and I heard she's like, oh, she has multiple offers now. So it's, it's interesting to see how the dynamic kind of changes. But as long as there's a need for people to be employed and there's less jobs than job seekers, so then job seekers can be picky and can do whatever they want, force you back to the office. They can, they can say, oh, we don't have an onboarding process. And because there's less jobs than job seekers, you just got to take it because you need to provide for your family.

Did you know there are twice as many jobs as job seekers right now?

I, I would not agree. I would say yes, that they might have listed those to make, to make it look like ghost listings to make sure that the company's growing in the eyes of investors. But what I'm reading, it's really tough. I'm really, I'm looking at, I'm reading layoffs here, layoffs there, and I'm not seeing that these people got a bunch of offers to be back at the workplace. And if that's the case, if you're listening to this, let us know in the comments if I'm completely wrong. But I also heard that people just range apply to jobs and they just apply. You know, they had their, a waiter or waitress and want to be at the CEO of some telecom company and they just applied. Then it looks on LinkedIn they have 5000 applications in 10 minutes and 0 qualified people. Not saying that a waiter, that a waiter can be the CEO, but you know, you do got to work your way up a little bit.

It's the American dream.

Yeah, but it's, you know, it's a hard, it's a long journey and you're not going to go right. It's going to be here, here, here, then back here and then up here. So it's an interesting journey. It's a very interesting. Especially now where I feel like Google is at the verge of laying 30,000 people off because of AI. Where are all these people going to go? Where are all these people going to find a job at? That's a huge amount of people.

They're going to be the top candidates for all the tech jobs out there.

But it's their sales thing. So it's at their sales force, that sales division for ads, I think. And it's not 100% confirmed, but it's like rumored and I don't know why it'd be rumored. So I feel like sometimes they rumor stuff and then it comes out and be like, yeah, we kind of told you, you know, to soften the blow.

Or if I were a company, I would rumor it so that people started grinding harder.

But. But it's also that when they rumor it, and it's great for poaching employees if you're. If you really need great salespeople and Google has some really great sales, you'd be like, hey, they might lay you off, so you might as well come over now. Because I think.

Do you know who leaked that rumor? Did Google say that?

No, I didn't. I can't remember who exactly did leaked that or said something about.

Matters. Because if Google leaked it, it might be true. But if a tiny little sales company leaked it, maybe they want to be able to poach the salespeople from Google. So.

So. But I also heard that Google is taking away daycare. They're also. They also took a lot of benefits away from their employees. So there's something that. So when they start taking away benefits that Google, that everybody knows that Google has, and that's why they kind of work at Google, is. Is for me, it's like a telltale sign that something's coming because they did lay off a lot of people.

Yeah.

So it's just interesting. Yeah.

They're trying to cut costs. Bottom line.

For shareholders. For shareholders. It's all about shareholders and generating cash flow and generating a profit. And we're just. I feel like we as employees need to be aware that it's not. We don't. We don't share the best interest with the company. We share the exact opposite. We want to get paid the most amount of money with the least amount of effort. The company wants to pay the least amount of money with the max amount of profit. So there's a huge disconnect. Right.

Yeah.

That's just.

It's great when you can work for an industry that you really believe in, because then you can be motivated beyond just salary. You can feel like you're helping people or you're inventing cool things or selling things to people that are really valuable. So that's one way to combat that mismatch of misalignment. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, I think we've talked about it in this episode. Thanks for tuning in. If you have any questions, DM us. It was nice being back for the first episode in 2024. And this is going to be an exciting year for us. And let us know what you think about it. If we're completely wrong, if we're completely right, and if we're also complete idiots. Just let us. We'll interact and we'll have a conversation. And I will see you guys in the next one.

Bye.