Thrive at the Executive Level with Tony Bagnato @theconfidenceadvantage2496

What's up? And welcome back to another episode of the Ally from Corporate podcast. I'm your host, Allie, and if you are here, you are interested in career development. You are a mid career professional looking to move up the corporate ladder. And today we've got an awesome, awesome guest. And I'm happy to report that we've never had this type of guest on here before. So for those of you that are looking to get into C suite executive SVP VP roles, this is the episode for you. So today we're talking to Tony Bagnato, who is a really cool dude out of Canada and he is an executive coach who actually used to be an executive. I've met my fair share of coaches who are really wonderful and awesome and I've also met my fair share of coaches who have no business calling themselves a coach because they haven't been there and done that. But Tony sure has. In this episode, we talk about a lot. We talk about silencing the inner critic, what that silence sounds like and you can identify if that's you. And he gives you advice on how to just turn that into a positive. We talk about your personal value proposition, how you can convey your value with impact to other people. Especially when, especially when you're coaching up and you are speaking to leadership and trying to convey your value. Maybe you want a promotion, maybe you want to be seen as a thought leader. And then lastly, we talk about what executives say in the room when you're not around, either before your presentation or after or just talking about you and what you stand for. And if you have a seat at the table. So get ready for a great episode, this is a little bit higher level. So if you are about to get ready for a director position, an executive position, a C suite position, I think you're really going to like this one. So without further ado, let's welcome Toni. Hello. I'm so glad you could join us today.

I'm excited to be here. Ali, thank you very much for having me.

Of course, of course. Tony, did you know that you are the very first exec to have on my podcast?

Well, I feel honored. Thank you.

I'm so honored to have you and I have so many questions for you. So as you know, our listeners of this podcast and our watchers on YouTube, they are mid career professionals who want to climb the corporate ladder and who want to have some insights and maybe, you know, demystify secrets of the corporate game, to quote my friend Kendall. But I have so many questions for you. So you used to be an executive. Your story is rooted in financial services. Tell us a little bit about yourself and then I have some questions for you.

Yeah, thanks, Ali. I mean, to keep it simple and straightforward, I had the great pleasure of what I'll often refer to as eight distinct careers at Canada's largest financial institution, rbc. And I worked across personal banking, business banking, wealth management, financial planning, and insurance. And it just gave me a great perspective, perspective on different businesses, how they operate, how they integrate. And over that time, I really developed a passion for coaching. And I think it's something that as you develop your career, you get more and more involved in helping others. And my last role, I led a team of. I had 600 advisors, we had 50 team leaders and eight directors. And what I really came to appreciate this was a group that in many cases were very early in their career or first time in leadership roles. But they really were open to ideas and learning. And I loved engaging them. And this is really the impetus of my, you know, the business. The confidence advantage.

That's so awesome. And I love that you are an executive coach who used to be an executive, because you and I both know in the coaching world there are definitely people out there who are, I wouldn't say they have no business coaching, but I love that you walk the walk, you talk the talk, you've been there, done that. And so you have probably lots of stories and anecdotes about, hey, I've done it this way, you should do it this way instead. Or like, hey, I've tried this, you should try this. So you have probably spent a lot of time in boardrooms with CEOs, CTOs, CMOs, CFOs, all the C suite people. One question I have for you is, and you and I have talked about silencing the inner critic before, do you think there was any imposter syndrome in those groups? Or insecurity or lack of confidence? Because when I think of executives, I think of like the top of the top. No imposter syndrome, no insecurities, no inner critic. Tell me a little bit about, like, how those people were.

Yeah, I mean, I think that there's no one way or one thing I've seen. But obviously over time you come to appreciate that some people, especially maybe early into a new role, land at the table and at a very senior level. But at the same time, while they've had great experience, sometimes question whether they should be there, whether they deserve to be there. And you know that I'm going to say this, I'm not a big Fan of the term imposter syndrome only because it sounds like an incurable malady that you just can't deal with. But at the core of it, it's self doubt, fear of failure, and worrying what others think. And so if you could break it down and say, okay, which one of those or a combination of those are what really drives your inner critic? Then I can focus on it, and that's what I tend to do.

So what would an inner critic sound like for people that maybe are listening and they're not sure if they have an inner critic or they've never really looked their inner critic in the face before? What does an inner critic sound like silently in your mind?

Yeah, I think that there's many different voices that they have. And, you know, as I, as I often do, I'll share stories, but I was dealing with a client who was a director at one of the larger FIs in Canada, not one that I worked at, but when I spoke to this individual, 15 years in the role, had great success, but he was kind of hitting that that barrier, wasn't able to get to that senior director or executive role. And when I started to talk to him, I started asking him about his successes and I started hearing about things like, well, it's just my job and not giving himself credit for all the great things that he does. And so when you start to break it down and tell me a little bit about this project and tell me a little about your learning and tell me a little bit the feedback you got, it started to really open up the value that he had and he started to see it. So that inner critic was, you know, I, I'm gonna, I don't, I don't see it as different. I don't see it as great. Things like that would be kind of the inner critic that I, that I hear often.

Okay, so. And I get questions from people like, hey, I want to brag about my accomplishments, but I want to be humble at the same time. So do you think there's a line to be drawn between being confident and being cocky when we're talking about our personal value proposition and silencing the inner critic?

Yeah, I think that there is definitely a concern. And we've all seen that person who every time you see them, they're bouncing around and they're really excited and they're just telling how great they are. I think you gotta be. You gotta do two things. One is you gotta create awareness of your value and your impact. And you gotta do that by having, having your stories ready and so it's no different. It's the same ones you'd use when you're using a star or a Carl to do an interview. These are the same stories. So having a process where on a quarterly basis I reflect on what I've done and now I've got my stories ready and being ready to share and being willing to share and confidently sharing these stories at the right time. And what I mean by that is that people will say to you, how's it going? And you can say, oh, it's going great. The typical response or things are wonderful. You know, tell me a little bit of what's going on.

You get it.

If you get an executive asking you what's going on in your business, be ready for it. They're asking for you to share it. And as a matter of fact, many leaders are not necessarily comfortable engaging. I mean, think about it. 50% of the population are introverts and 50% of the population are extroverts or whatever number that is. You got to help them. At times they're asking you that question. They want to give you that opportunity, that venue to speak. So be prepared to tell your story. And, and lastly, it's not bragging if it's true.

Ah, yeah, you're right. It's just, you're just stating the facts, telling your story.

Absolutely, absolutely. But again, don't do it in a way where you're that guy or that girl, where it's like every time I say I don't even want to talk to them because they're just going to brag about something. But you know, as a leader, one of the things that you also have an ability to do is not talk about yourself. You know, I've had many, you know, senior level executives come to me and saying what's going on. And you know, I'm really proud of what my team just did and then really getting into specifics about what the team accomplished or even pivoting to profiling one of the people on your team and sharing what they've done because you want to create awareness of them as well as part of a role of a leader is to help people, you know, move through the organization. So take that opportunity when that executive asked that question to share not only what you've done, maybe at times share what the team's done, but why don't you profile somebody on your team?

I think that makes a leader look so good when they talk well about their team instead of, I'm doing great, I accomplished this when they're talking about what their team accomplished. And I want to go back for a second. So you. You mentioned Star and Carl. Star method is situation, task, action, result to talk about, you know, behavioral questions. If you're in an interview, what is Carl? I've never heard of this.

So it was a process developed by, I believe, the University of Edinburgh many years ago, and it wasn't necessarily built for interviews. And I picked it up somewhere in my early coaching journey. And it's context, action, result, and learning. So very similar to Star. But for me, the key difference is the learning piece. It's that reflection piece. It shows somebody that not only did I accomplish something or did I overcome a problem or a challenge, but what did I learn from it? It shows that introspection, and it talks a little bit about what I would do differently next time. Again, both great tools, frameworks, but I just like the Carl for the L. I like it for the learning.

Me too. And I made a video once saying, don't use Star. Use Starl because I had lessons learned at the end. And I absolutely think that if you are talking to anybody that you want a partnership with or a business opportunity with or even a friendship with, to show self awareness is to show empathy, maturity, humility, and confidence in yourself and grit that you can make it through a challenge and you can learn a lesson and come out better on the other side. So I love. I love Carl.

Yeah. Vulnerability is a leadership superpower. It really is. It shows your team you're human, right?

Yes. And how can. So sometimes when we think of leaders, we think of people as, you know, these superheroes and these executives that are scary, that have big titles and they've never. They don't ever make mistakes. How can a leader show vulnerability? I mean, how can they show. I don't want to call it weakness, but how can they show that they are human at the same time as being inspiring and leading a group of people? Do you have any examples or.

Yeah, I think I give two ways that, you know, I've done it or I've seen people do it really well. One is we all develop action plans. Right. We have goals and action plans. You work with your manager and you identify areas that you want to grow and you put an action plan together. Well, why don't you share that with your leadership team and ask them to hold you accountable to it? So first of all, you can't build a leadership. You can't build your action plan without feedback from your team. Right. It's great that you have it from Your manager, It's great that you're providing input, but if I really want to know what I'm not good at or an area that I need to grow, then I got to get that feedback from my team. So, number one, ask for it. Number two, build the plan based on what you believe, what your manager believes, but also what the team gave you. And then when you build a plan, share it, and ask them to hold you accountable. But focus specifically. I'm really working on asking better questions, just picking something up or listening better or giving recognition, whatever, and tell them what you're going to do, and then give them the permission to give you feedback. So that's the one piece of vulnerability. And I think the other one is, you know, obviously admitting when you're wrong and being open about it. You know, not all projects work, and taking responsibility and accountability in a public forum is not a bad thing.

No. And it can be very inspiring also, because, you know, perfectionism, I don't think, breeds a sense of psychological safety at work. It makes people want to step on eggshells and not admit to failures and maybe not talk about things that are going wrong. And that's never good for a project to hold back bad news.

Yeah.

So I love that. That's. That's really great advice. So some of the things you're saying are probably happening behind closed doors with executive teams, none of which I personally have ever been privy to. I've never been in the room with, you know, a group of executives, but obviously you have. For those of us who are listening, who are maybe managers or even directors, who have also never been in the room with a team of executives. Do they talk differently when it's just the C suites in the room? Like, what do executives say when. When the rest of us are not in the room?

Well, I. A good team, and again, I can only speak for, you know, the limited numbers I've been involved with, But a good team are very open, very direct, and are really focused on results. You know, you got to leave kind of your. Your ego at the door sometimes, I think is probably where you start. But when I think about what executives say in the room, it was actually one of my first clients when I started my coaching practice, when I started to ask him what specifically he needed help with. And we were talking about confidence and a few other different things, communication skills. And he said to me, tony, he says, I really want to understand what executives say when I'm not in the room. And what that really developed into was, how do I prepare to deliver a presentation to an executive team. How is that different from what I deliver when I'm presenting to say my team, what do they say before I come in? And how can I understand what success looks like in a presentation? So walking through all of that because it's a very different presentation. It really is. And you really got to start there. Most people, you know, most presentations, you know, somebody's got a deck, they, they walk through it, they ask a couple of questions and they think they're finished. Well, presenting to an executive team is providing the deck in advance. Have an executive summary up front outlining specifically the questions that you want to get answered. Defining success. I'm going into that meeting because I need funding, I need approval, I need something and then asking for it and recognizing that you're not going to actually go through the presentation, it was read in advance. Use it as an opportunity to have questions asked, to be prepared for pushback, to be ready to be challenged, but at the same time still looking for the approval that you went to that meeting for. If you go to the executive table just to deliver your presentation, you're wasting.

There and your time and that's an expensive meeting too.

100%. 100%.

And I think it definitely shows a sign of major respect and just that you have your shit together when you provide the pre read and it shows that you are prepared and you know what you want out of the conversation and you're not going to waste anybody's time and it's going to be a good use of everybody's time and you're going to get alignment or not. That's really good. That's really good. And that, that sounds more strategic than tactical to me. Like you know we talked about if a manager's presenting to their team of IND individual contributors, that's probably a little more tactical of a presentation. But alternatively if you're in a boardroom with C suite members, you're probably talking more long term strategy. Not necessarily like I need a decision on this project thing today.

Yeah, you know, it's, it's. I often share a story and, and, and if I may, I was running the wealth management business at RBC Insurance. So it was build, actually starting the business. Right. So building our first, I think you call them in the states, variable annuities and building annuity products and we call them segregated funds in Canada. And I remember having to present because this was a high risk product. It was a new entry into our marketplace for our organization. And so I remember having to present to the CEO's team on a monthly basis. Now, you can walk, and this is about the strategic and the tactical. You can walk into that meeting and you can sit where everybody sits, which is usually at the end in the corner, or you can walk into the room and identify where you want to sit. And what I mean by that is, who's the most influential person at the table? Well, it might be the CEO, but in my case, it was actually the head of Risk. And so I made sure that I specifically sat down directly across from this individual because I wanted to be speaking directly to him. Now, I speak to the full audience, but I recognize that no matter what anybody thought, Risk is going to have a final say. And so what I needed to be able to do was be able to communicate directly with this individual. I needed to know if he's making notes. I wanted to read his body language and deliver the message accordingly. So there's some other strategic elements that you can use when making an impact and think about what it says. If a director is walking into an executive room and actually takes a seat that's open, but maybe it's in a better position than the one that everybody else sits at, which is kind of hidden in the corner, it speaks to a little bit of the confidence that you're exuding as well.

Yep. And Sheryl Sandberg talks about this in her book Lean In. She talks about take a seat at the table when you enter into a room where there's a lot of heavy hitters. If you want to move up and you want to get into a leadership role or you want to come off as a thought leader in your company, don't just go stand in the corner. Sit at the table. Take a seat at the table. You are worthy of it. You deserve it. You deserve to be there. Your ideas are, you know, people want to hear your ideas. So I love that. I love that advice. I have one more question for you before you wrap up. You mentioned this to me last time we spoke. You mentioned the term coaching up. And I haven't, like, Googled or it or researched it or anything, but I'm dying to know what it is. Can you tell me a little bit about what it means to coach up?

Sure. I'm going to conflate a few terms here. So I believe that one of the most important behavioral competencies that we have is impact and influence. Right. It's a common HR term, but really what it means is having the ability to generate impact through others for which you have no managerial control. That's that highest level of impact and influence right now, when I think about coaching up, it's how do I make sure that my manager is both aware of the things that I and my team are working on, the things we're going to work on, and the challenges and support we may need, and also provide that communication template in a way that is valuable to this individual. So let me tell you how I did it. So what I would do on a weekly basis, I would send a very short summary to my manager, the svp. And it was a, and I'll say a one pager so that it's not a long email. It would fit on, you know, a one page word doc as an example. And there'd be three sections. In the first section, which is about 40% would outline what we did, what we accomplished, key successes we had. So that he was aware of it because he's interacting with other partners, other senior leaders, and he wants to be able to talk about these things as well. Number one, he also gives you an opportunity to profile your team. The second section, another 40%, is what we're working on and what we may need help with. Many times I would put a note saying I've got to work with the Ops team and you know, he might have spoke to the head of Ops before I even talked to him. And he's breaking down barriers for me. He's clearing that path for me. It also creates awareness of things that are going on because you want to make sure your boss isn't blindsided. Right. You want to make sure that they're aware of what's going on. And lastly, the last 20% of that report was reward and recognition. Who on your team, your peers, outside vendors, whoever that have done something different to positively impact your business, making sure that you're making him or her aware of what's going on. And so to me, I use this tool to create awareness for my manager, to make him or her aware of what's going on, but also to protect them, to make sure that they're not surprised. And, and if I could just add a story, I remember working with a, a lady who was in a director role at a large insurance company and she was having some communication issues with her manager. And I suggested and coached her to use this tool and she did. And her manager hated it. The VP absolutely hated it. Yeah. However, the SVP loved it and ended up implementing it through the whole organization, which I thought was hilarious because her manager just didn't want to have another report that everybody was asked to Prepare. And I said don't make it a process, just make it a weekly summary. You know, what did you do at the end of the week? You'd capture what you did, put that in a summary report and then you could have a conversation with your manager about it in your one on one or in some cases it may actually save time because you've given so much detail that they don't need to have that one on one conversation every time or on Monday mornings.

This might squash a micromanager too. So I want to add some homework for people that are listening or watching. No matter what level you are at work, whether you're an individual contributor, an IC or in a management or leadership or even an executive role, I want you to try this, especially if you are remote or especially if your boss is pretty hands off, don't ever assume your boss knows what you're doing at work. You might think your boss knows, but chances are your boss might be wondering, I wonder what Allison did at work today. Or like I wonder what value Allison provided at work this week. So if you are in that boat or if you have a micromanager and you'd like more autonomy, try sending this report on a Friday afternoon and sum up. So tell me, tell me what's in it again, you said it's a short.

Yeah. The 40% is what we did, what we accomplished. Results, any challenges, you might want to outline that if you faced a barrier. The next 40% is what we're working on, where we're going, what the team plans to accomplish, but also any support needed, you know, whether it's with another partner, any awareness you need to create around a problem that you know you don't want to get your leader blindsided. And then 20% is reward and recognition. Who do you want to profile that significantly and positively contributed to your organization, your team, the plan, whatever. Okay, that's how I would phrase it. The last piece though, if I could add to that. Sorry Ali, if I could add to that is you're highlighting a very important thing. Don't assume that your manager is aware. So providing this report does that. But I also want you to think about it in another lens, which is when they do performance management and again at the senior levels, it's not necessarily how you delivered against your results. You're stack ranked against all your peers at the director and senior director level. And so if you want your leader to be prepared to speak about your accomplishments and your team's accomplishments with passion and with support, sprinkle this information throughout the year. It's never going to come as a one long report. They just know what you're doing because they're hearing about it all the time.

I love that. And I can definitely see the people that hire you as a coach, I can see the value that you bring to them because I can guarantee you, a lot of people listening to this, you're blowing their mind right now because they're, they haven't thought to go this extra mile. And I can definitely see why this would position somebody as a leader because the fact that you're telling your manager obstacles, challenges, what's going on so that they're not blindsided, that is priceless to a manager. I have blindsided a manager before or I have, I have, I have seen a manager get blindsided before and it was my fault and it was disastrous. I got in big trouble. I felt awful. Um, I got yelled at. It was not a, not a good situation. And after that I learned, okay, I need to share any bad news as soon as it comes across my desk and provide a potential solution to it as well, um, so that they don't find out from somebody else. And they look to me and go, why didn't you tell me? Now I look like an idiot in front of everybody. So, yeah, be forthcoming and, and take initiative like that. That is, I think, a huge quality of a leader.

Yeah, it's, it's increasingly important in a virtual world where you're not necessarily bumping into them on a regular basis and, you know, kind of out of sight, out of mind a little bit. Right. And, you know, just, just to kind of, you know, bridge this a little bit, you know, what your leader is also looking for when they're, you know, assessing you for, you know, that next role, whether you're a manager, senior manager, director, senior director. What you did and what you accomplished and the success you had as an individual contributor doesn't always translate. It's not the same skills. I, you know, I'm going to be doing a series on strategic mindset and helping people understand what are those eight skills that leaders demonstrate that will have them viewed as having that strategic mindset and able to take on that senior level role beyond their role as an individual contributor. And throughout that weekly report, you're going to have that ability to talk about risk, you're going to have that ability to talk about big picture thinking and various, one of the, you know, two of the eight aspects that I, that I outlined, but they're really just important things that are going to truly Differentiate you in the mind of leaders, your leader, and leadership in general.

Right. Yeah. Yeah, I absolutely agree. Okay, so before we wrap up here, how can people get in contact with you and are you taking on new clients if somebody's listening to this and they want to work with you?

Well, thank you. So LinkedIn is my primary place of communicating. I tell stories. I'm pretty much active five days a week. And, you know, I have the pleasure of interacting with you as well, which is wonderful. And so there's information there. I've also captured a lot. I've done a number of videos, including that, you know, coaching up process that I talked about, which are captured on my YouTube channel. And I just built a website last year to. Which includes some tools and resources that people can have, you know, access to. There's no email address or anything. It's all there for free, and people can use it for what they like. Am I taking on clients? Yes, I'm. I'm always looking to take on people that I connect with. I have the great pleasure of being in that point in my career where if there's not that connection, if I don't see that they're willing to put in the work and have the success or have the right attitude, then I'm sure there's other people that can help them better than me.

Yep. Cool. Okay. And what's that website that you mentioned?

It is communicatingconfidence.com and my company is called the Confidence Advantage.

Awesome. Well, thank you so much. I learned a lot here. I have a small team. We just hired a virtual assistant and a salesperson. And so I want to start implementing this weekly report just to keep everybody aligned. So I learned a lot in this conversation. I really appreciate you coming on here and sharing all this with our listeners. Yeah. Do you have any last. Any last parting thoughts for people? Any. Any advice you want to leave people with or any. Any last thoughts for people?

Yeah. Stop undermining your credibility. And if you ever find yourself saying words like it's just a or I don't have a, turn it around. Speak positively about what it is and talk about what you have, not what you don't.

Oh, I love that. I'm going to do that today. Cool. All right, well, thank you so much for coming on. Tony, you are awesome, and I can't wait till this episode airs because I think a lot of people are going to get value out of it. So thank you.

Thank you very much for having me.

Bye.