Shannon Atkins: What REALLY Makes a Great Dance Studio

Hello friends, I'm Amanda Barr.

And I'm Rebecca Lou Brennan, and welcome to Dance Principles United, the podcast.

Together we are passionate about helping studio owners with the business of running their studio.

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This is the Dance Principles United podcast.

We're so excited to have the iconic Shannon Atkins here. Um, those of you who went on the walk this morning, how good was it? It was just so amazing. Um, and I'm really lucky to have Shannon as a friend now. Um, and she's really inspired me with her health journey, I have to say. Um, and I feel like, you know, that was inspiring even this morning. Like, to get up and walk is a great way to start a morning, isn't it?

You— I always— when you're lying there, it feels awful, but once you're out there It's just you get those few hours that other people don't get. You get to embrace the morning, and once you're on that beach or wherever it is, you're like, oh, that was so worth it. If you can just get to that feeling.

Yeah, so amazing. So we're going to do a little interview this morning for an hour. Um, I'm gonna ask some questions, and then you guys, I'm sure, have a billion questions that you would like to ask Shannon. Um, but I thought we would start with your dance journey, your studio journey, because you owned a studio.

I did. I owned a studio, um, and again, it kind of came out of nowhere, like a lot of my dance career. I thought I was going to be a lawyer, so that was the plan. And then when I finished my degree, which was in 2006, I got approached by a woman on the Gold Coast. I was already teaching lots of students privately. That's how I put myself through university, and She was like, I think you should start a studio. In my mind, I was pretty against it and thought, oh, it'll just be for a year. And then it ended up becoming a really big studio on the Gold Coast. It was a very, you know, it's all different now, but we were very competition-focused. However, very, I thought, very strong and tried to offer everything in all genres while still encouraging really high education at school because that was a value of mine. So It ended up becoming really massive, I think, for its time in particular. And then I ended up getting an opportunity in New York and I followed my gut. Uh, not everyone was sort of, what are you doing? You've got such a successful business. Took that chance. It's all for me. I think it's worked out the way that it was supposed to. And I sold that in 2014. And now here we are in 2026. You feel 25.

Um, what do you think was the best thing you did in your studio, and then I'm gonna ask you what the worst thing you did was.

I think one of the best things— I always ran a really firm line, and I didn't really appreciate just how young I was doing that. So my studio, I opened at 24. I was about to turn 24, which again, I thought I was so old. Now I see how I may have even been viewed by the clients. And then I sold it at 31. So very young. A lot of people haven't even opened their studios. And I just felt like I'd gotten everything out of that. But one of the best things I thought was that I encouraged versatility. So I— they had to do ballet exams if they were on my, you know, if they wanted to be in all of the things. I made them, you know, I'm not gonna say made them, but strong in ballet, singing, acting. I gave them every opportunity to do acrobatics, to do whatever it was, but tap at a high level. I wanted them to have a little piece of everything instead of just constricting what they did and try and get them to foster a love for all those aspects while also making sure if they had a big exam that they were supported. If they had something like that too, it wasn't, you have to come to dance. I tried to work with them. So I think that was one of the best things that I did within my school.

I think if you do have a school where you've got kids that do want to go on to careers at some stage and you're not offering all those things, you're really Well, you're not really giving them a chance.

I think you're narrowing the pool. As I've seen living in New York and overseas, a lot of the jobs involve— and I will use an example. I'm very close with Faith, who's gotten onto the Dallas Cheerleaders, which is amazing achievement for an Australian. And I went and watched one of her games. I'm very— I've always been close with her, and I did her solo for this, this Season, you'll see it on the next Netflix. But I worked with her on her solo, and my friend in New York is the choreographer of the Rockettes of the Radio City, and he's dear friend, and he goes, "I really hope when she's done with that that she comes our way. She seems like a lovely girl. We'd love to have her, someone like her and her personality, and just who she seems." Because the Rockettes is very mindful of who they bring in. They don't just want a brilliant dancer; they want someone that will work as a team because it's a very team. team-driven performance. So it's not for the soloist out there. And so I, I spoke to her. I said, they really— when you're done with this, they'd love to have you. She's like, I can't tap. She said, Shannon, I, I've never tapped. And the tapping in that show is at a really high level. And so again, I thought— I said, I'll give you privates. Like, I'm a tapper. And it's just, it really is hard to pick that up later. And I think, not that it's anyone's fault, but It's just like, come on, let's, let's show them all the skills. Not, let's not just— it's only a few styles that are cool.

Love it. So true. Um, worst thing about— worst thing you did, or worst part of being a studio owner, whatever you think.

I think I really got caught up in the, like, the results, and I would stress about it mostly because I was feeling pressure. It wasn't what I wanted or what I cared about, but I just felt that pressure. I remember thinking, oh, we won, that'll shut that parent up, that parent up. Not thinking how wonderful for the children. I remember one parent came backstage after something and we'd won, and she goes, see, we're getting good again. And I was like, what are you doing, Shannon? This isn't— this is ridiculous. And I think I did get caught up in a little while, and I lost the reason I wanted to have a studio and I wanted to teach the kids was because I wanted them to have a great childhood. I wanted them to have an understanding of the arts, an opportunity to have a career if they wanted, or just become a great human adult. And I thought, this isn't focusing on my values anymore. And I was a young person, I, you know, and then I'd be probably acting out of my personality and screaming at them, more rehearsals. And then I thought, I'm not doing this. This isn't their enjoyment anymore. So then I just was like, I'm not doing that anymore. I am not operating from that because that's not who— that's not what I wanted. I wanted excellence, but I didn't want it at the cost of everybody's enjoyment.

That's so interesting. Was that like towards the end that you realized that, or like the middle? Or

I think it was so in the beginning, my school started from Probably some very— I guess I was working with a lot of soloists during university, and so in the beginning it was smaller, very elite, so it was easier to get those dancers. We did less and was able to put really quality— like, everyone's like, who are these? Who's that? Um, and then everyone wants to join. It's much harder when you've got people coming from different training, and, you know, they all want to come, they want to be part of that. But then to keep that level when you've got a million on stage It's much harder. And then the OG parents were like, oh, we don't want them in our dances, or all of that with growth. And I, I just thought that's when I started being like, I just sort of had to really figure myself out. And I was like in my 20s trying to manage, you know, a lot of these students have gone on. I was talking last night, they've gone on to do— I've had 3 go to Juilliard. I've got one in the English National Ballet, and all of this was before I was 30, but that was what I wanted for them. But again, these are the kind of, you know, dancers that were there, and it's very hard. You've got them all dancing at a high level. You bring in other people that want to join because they want to be part of that. You want to do that for your business, but then trying to maneuver all of that, I thought, was very difficult, and that's where my personality found it really hard to adapt.

Because you and I always talk about, like, once you're on top, there's only one way to go. That's the hard part, right, about being on top?

That's— it's so hard. And these parents that were like winning streak, small group of 15, to add in a massive group of 30 to 50— I even had one parent say to me, I'll pay you extra for a winning solo. I'm like, that, that's— I went, you— I give my best to every child. You can't— I can't control the judge. That was probably the craziest thing I'd ever heard. And I— but again, I thought, this is like, this is where we're at. They're like, you know, and I just thought, it's just— it was at the time so much talent, and the kids were all loving it, and I just was finding it really hard to separate the outside noise, I guess.

I can think about 20 kids parents in our studio right now that would say exactly that to, to us. It's just so— it is so crazy, that side of things. Well, let's talk about overseas, because then you sold your studio, went overseas, have made this insane career. Tell us a little bit about what you've done. Like, it's insane. I know, crazy.

Um, so I just took a chance again. I think my dad thought I was crazy. What are you doing selling that successful studio? I even overheard parents in the bathroom. There was, there was probably ringings of she's gonna sell this because I'd been going to New York all year. I'd been 6 times. They knew I was working with a choreographer and I was only 30. So I think a lot of them, I heard them in the bathroom, she won't sell, she's, she's on a gold mine. I was in the toilets next to them and I thought, they don't know that for me this isn't just, this isn't about the money, it's my happiness, my soul, you know, like what I want out of my life. I really wanted to live overseas and experience that and I I just thought it was that pivotal moment, either do it or don't do it. So I moved to New York. Really, I mean, I had a very good friend, but he wasn't in the dance school scene that I wanted to be in, more in the performing. And I had a performing opportunity, but that was only short. And then I thought my ultimate goal was just I wanted to live in New York. It wasn't even a job, but I blasted the emails and started teaching some rec classes in Westchester, which is upstate New York. I then ended up getting a job at Larkin Studios, which I'm sure you've all probably heard of. They're very famous. They have studios in Minnesota and in Jersey. She straight away was like, I need you, I need you. And it was kind of mind-boggling because the first night I went in there, I was 31. That Sasha Radetzky from Center Stage was teaching the ballet that night. I was like a bit, you know, as an Aussie, I was like, oh my God. And he was like, hey, do you mind if I just join in the back of your warm-up? And I'm like, it's Charlie from Center Stage, you know, like he wants to join in my warm-up, like what's happening? And so this lady, Kelly Larkin, she rang, she goes, I'm ringing this comp, they're going to want you as a judge. They connected me with Dance One, which is the Star Power Radix Dance Awards. They own all of it now. And they ended up having me sort of as their number one judge. Grace met me. She's now 99. I know. And she, she is a tough cookie, but she just liked me straight away. They opened up so much opportunity for me. And then I just walked myself into Broadway Dance Center and said, hey, did

you really?

I did.

Of course you did.

I did. I thought, I've got to. And I always live by that mentality of it's got to be someone, why not me? And I walked in and they knew I'd worked with Randy Skinner, which he's the choreographer of 42nd Street and big tap musicals. So I'm tapping— tapping was what I was really known for. And if anyone was around in that era, that's what my studio was known for. And it was huge though in that time, even though obviously because I was trained with versatility, I can pivot to many other things. It's now they're like Lyrical Shannon, because I guess I've had to evolve with the times and pick a focus in a sense. And also at Broadway Dance Center, if you teach tap, which was actually my first ever open class there, you can only have, I think, up to 20 in that room. In a lyrical, you can have 85. And I thought business-wise for myself, let's, let's pack out the room. So That's— and I love lyrical too. I love it all. But it's just, you know, again, as you all know, marketing's so important. So I think probably most people that know me of late would be like, oh, she does lyrical. And like, it's like I do so much more, but that's what that was. And so I walked in and they said, yeah, well, if a spot opens up— I ended up subbing. I ended up getting a 9 AM slot on a Tuesday morning. That was jazz. I think it was advanced beginner jazz. And actually Madison Clay, that now just opened Movement on the Gold Coast, MJ Slinger, I was talking about him last night. They will— it was those 2 who I knew, plus maybe 3 or 4 other people that could get themselves out of bed for that. But then it grew. People started talking about it and it evolved. And, um, and I end up— I'll be— it gobsmacks me, and I'm not You know, this is— they'll say, Shannon, we put your class up, it sold out in 5 minutes. And that's in New York City. And when I've emailed them, I've emailed them just in the last week to say, these are the dates I could possibly do. They give me exact time slots I want. This is Steps on Broadway, like Joe Lanteri, people that I idolize. Email— he'll email me every month. Are you back? Are you back? Are you back? And I'm just like, I can't believe these people are emailing me, but It gave me great confidence in what I do. And I'm really good friends with Gianna Martello from Dance Moms and actually good friends with Abby as well. But Gianna says, Shannon, one thing is that, you know, you are getting these kids and dancers, professionals in the room because of you. She said, I always wonder whether it's just because I've done a show. She said, and you actually have everyone in there because you just make everyone Feel you give a great class. No, and I always think no one can take that away from me. I love what I do. I think I'm good at what I do. I'm prepared. I'm professional. I'll give you my best product. So no matter what anyone may want to say ever, I can hold that. I'm not a perfect person because nobody is, but I can hold that true to my heart. No one can take that from me. And those— the kids and the dancers are going to always see that first and foremost, I think.

I love that. Now, you did a little teaser this morning and said that you were gonna chat about something. I'm super excited about this, actually. So yeah, tell us about the little, the little teaser from this morning. We want to hear about it.

So as a little girl, I used to keep a diary. Like, just, I love writing, I love journaling. And so it's a bit of a passion project, but I've actually It's been in the works, and it's just been something that I've wanted to do. And after speaking to a few people about it, they're like, we need this, we want this. And I've thought, oh my goodness, it's just a little, you know, nothing to do with the dancing. But I've created a dance journal that I think— because just to get my— I know mindset, you know, even when I was 15, I got— I was doing professional show. I was trying to top school, and I just— I had like a mini nervous breakdown because I'm one of those Type A, have to be the best at everything. And just, I think resources are really, really important for all different reasons. So I have created— well, Bibi's brought up in my little beautiful bag. I have created— it's called the Dance Journal. It's very simple. Dance Journal. And it's got inside of it, it's, it could be for anyone really. It could be just for a kid that comes one class a week, right up to what I think would be a full-time. I now, after talking to Beck, I feel like I've got to make one for teachers and studio owners.

Yes.

Because I mean, I, I just love filling something out, seeing it in front of me and getting it out helps. So in here, I've in each week, so it's not, you could pick it up at any point. It's not, it's, it's got 44 weeks because I feel like by the time we, that's enough. We don't need the full 52, but it's, you know, because you might have a week off one week or, you know, it's important to have a down week. But I've got a quote that I've written for, I've opened it up. There's different areas. There's confidence, there's purpose, there's growth. And I've put a little inscription just from me at the beginning and at the end. But For example, one of my affirmations for this week is I am supported and I've got a confidence multiplies in community. Let others reflect your light as a little quote for them to look at. And then I've got a space for them to put an intention for the week, a little note to self. I've got a weekly challenge, which I thought, you know, it could either just be private or, you know, if you're running a little academy or your competition team or your team, for example, the weekly challenge this week is who inspired you this week, you know, meaning it could be the teacher, it could be your mom, it could be a friend, whatever it is. And it's interesting to hear what kids have to say. The note to self section that they've got, how there's little questions in each week. This one says, how does being a part of a dance community help build your confidence? You know, like, then over here it's like, reflect on how you felt in your dance community this week. One word to describe this week. So it's like a page that you do at the start of the week and one at the end. What are you most proud of this week? Because I always say to the kids, you come out of class or offstage and you're like, oh, Mom, I fell out of my pirouette. It wrecked my whole dance. And I'm like, can we— first of all, I always tell my students 3 great things you did before something horrible that you did. Then you can tell me about your pirouette where your relevé was a bit lower. You're not a perfect person. You are not a robot. You are a human. Then I've got like rating yourself. So that gets kids or dancers, to be honest. There's an effort, focus, confidence with little stars. So you can see they could do one page at the start, one page at the end. And I also just think, especially if it's getting used at a dance school, they don't need to be pounding the pavement for their 8 hours of class. Like, to get them to sit down and reflect and rest their little bodies for a second might actually be really helpful. And if they wanted to share, you could go around and ask if they were willing to share a little part of what they'd written, because that takes bravery, builds confidence, shares, allows vulnerability. There's also a little section at the, at the end that has them able to write a future, a letter to their future self, you know, which I think at the start of, of a year, or whenever you decide to pick this up, but at the start of a year, writing that letter to yourself You know, everyone's super motivated at the start of the year. I'm that person, like in New York, they're about to go back. So everyone wants it now because they go back in September and they're like, you know, I used to love a new diary and new pencils. Like, you know, I don't know. There's something about that for me. There's also a monthly planner and I thought in this monthly planner they could write out, there's one for each month, when their comps are, when their school exams are. And I think really importantly, write out blank day. Friend day, you know, so they can see it in front of them, and then they can maybe go, something needs to come out, something needs to go in. But I just thought, when you see it in front of you, sometimes it's less overwhelming. And I just think having this little diary, you know, to have that little ritual like I was describing, like I do, could be super special on a lot of levels. So I've created this and it hasn't been released yet, but you are the first ones to know about it and even see it.

Yay! What, what I love about this, guys, and I said to Shan, I'm going to get this for all of our comp kids for next year. And we have huge comp teams, as you know. How good is this for retention? Because I always talk to you guys about the parents are not a part of our dance journey like they should be. You know, we do talk about a lot of this stuff in class, But we don't actually give it to the parents to see. If they can see that their child is filling something like this out and actually going through, and it's so incredible, have a look at it if you can, because the quotes and everything, like one of the weekly challenges is go and talk to someone new. I'm like, well, that's a great challenge for us in this room today, you know? So it's like little things like that. If parents see that and that side of dance in front of them and see their child filling that out, Mm-hmm. How amazing would that be for retention? Like, for me, I just think that's gonna be a game changer for our studio next year. And I think you guys need to think more about that. How are you showing parents the amazing things that you're doing with the kids? So we're gonna do it in our technique classes. I'm gonna document. I'm gonna put it on social media. I just think it's next level. And I know Shan has a special little code for us today, which I'll put on Slack for you guys. So you guys can get it a little bit cheaper. And also, if you're doing a bulk order like we are, you can get it a little bit cheaper. But how amazing is it that she created that? Yeah. And how much does she need to do it for studio owners? Because I would like this, you know, I would love to journal. I don't know about you, but I wake up at 3 AM and I'm like, this has to happen and this and this. And I'm like, if I just wrote it down, it's gonna make life probably help me to go back to sleep. Or, you know.

Well, we learn in psychology that the human brain isn't meant to hold things. It's meant to put, you know, you're meant to get it and then you're meant to dump it out. So, and that's for all kids, adults. And I just think, like Bec said, imagine you going home, like, as a parent, you're like, oh, I know that my, I know that my studio is focusing on the right things and trying to encourage good, but good humans. Because I know, you know, that student of mine that just opened movement, she's obviously, she lived in New York and did the A-League program and she never ended up performing. I think she should have. But again, I'm like, what I think she should have. She still lived 14 incredible years in New York, opened Movement Now, incredible studio. But her sister is a lawyer in New York, but she did all the dancing, just not the solos. And her mother said to her, you know, did we do the right thing putting you in all of that dance, even though you've gone on to do this and it wasn't as important to you as it was to your sister? She did groups. She was so, you know, she came to dancing. I used to make it so my My older kids could just come twice a week but still compete. In the end, I thought that was important. I wanted them to have that. I put all their classes on Tuesday night, and then they just came Saturday afternoon, and so they could still compete. And she said, oh my goodness, best money you've ever spent. I wouldn't be the law— I wouldn't even be a lawyer. I wouldn't have confidence to have gone to New York to be a lawyer. My life would look completely different if you hadn't have put me into dance. And so I just think, because even though this has only just been created, I think That's always been my philosophies. I do think it helps people no matter whether they're going to be a dancer, a lawyer, or even just a great mother, whatever it is they want to do, the mindset and the morals and the values as a human are what's going to help them.

We hope you enjoyed this episode of the Dance Principles United podcast. If you'd love to learn more from us, we have a special offer just for our podcast listeners. Go to the link in the show notes right now to get 2 weeks free in Dance Principles United Tribe. We would love to see you there.