"All is According to Plan" - A Conversation About Grief & Leadership

Hello everybody, I'm super excited to have Courtney Shepherd, also known as Courtney Shortney, here with us in the V Spot today. Courtney is a compassionate coach, an entrepreneur, and a team leader who helps hardworking moms build 6 and and 7-figure businesses from their phones with focus. That piece is important to add. Courtney, welcome to the V Spot.

Thank you for having me, Dre. Oh my gosh, I'm so excited to be here. Um, I, I— we've known each other for— I mean, I'm sure— I don't know if we'll get into that, but it's just really cool to actually connect and collaborate on something, on a project, and I can't wait to, uh, to dive in with you today.

Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I'm going to talk a little bit to give folks some context in a little while, but we have been talking for a while about you joining me here. Yeah, we're excited that we were able to make it happen. And so everyone who is listening, I met Courtney in Central Park in 2022. I want to say it was May or June somewhere, right?

June 13th. It was my birthday.

Oh, it was your birthday. June 13th.

Remember, we what's his name saying at the end of it. It was Jordan. It was a lot of fun. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. It was— I mean, I want folks to, like, sort of get a visual of the scene. It was a very warm day in Central Park. We were melting, basically, right? Super sticky. And Courtney was there with Jesse Lee, who is her best friend. And Jesse Lee was hosting a pop-up event. And so we meet in the middle of Central Park, you know, and spend a couple of hours hearing from Jesse Lee. And she poured into Courtney. All of us pertaining to coaching. And, you know, it's like a real mastermind in the middle of Central Park. But Kwani, I want to begin by giving you your flowers for that particular day, because one of the things that I remember very clearly was how well you executed that particular event. You know, you were on top of all of the details, and many of us talked about that. People who didn't know each other, you know, left that day not only really poured into by Jesse Lee but poured into by you because of how you handled the, you know, all of it, the time, the photos, the support, you know, really bringing us together to make it happen. And so it was evident when I left that day that you weren't just a best friend, right? You were an anchor for Jesse Lee. And we— yeah, we appreciate that and really want to spotlight that because it's, it's not easy to manage dozens and dozens of people in an open area, you know, to turn it out so that the vision is executed. So I just wanted to, you know, give you some flowers for—

That was also my first time ever in New York, that entire trip. I've never been to Central Park. We got to walk through and experience that as well. And, you know, I think— thank you so much for that. I think it really is something that I tap into naturally, but it's a skill that anyone can if they choose to. Right. You can always acquire skills and develop them into, into being and looking exactly how you want them to. So I appreciate that. I've worked really hard on being able to accomplish that. So it means a lot that you notice.

Yeah. Well, what I love is that you working very hard at it didn't show in the moment. What showed is that it was a natural gift, right? And you were really on top of being steps ahead. And I think when it comes to leadership, which we're going to talk about leadership and actually we're going to be focusing on leadership while grieving, right? Because it's a very complex entity. It's one thing to have the skill set to cultivate it, but it's also another thing to deliver it in such a way where people can look and be like, wow, she was born to do this. It happens.

Yeah.

Yeah. So I just want to spotlight, you know, to everybody listening to oftentimes the work that you do behind the scenes you know, is what really prepares you to show up and deliver in a way where it's like, wow, you know.

So especially when you feel like it goes unnoticed, there will be times when, just like right now, like you acknowledging that means a lot. Thank you again.

Yeah, you're welcome. You're welcome. Thank you. We had a great— we had a great time in New York City. A bunch of us talk about it still and, you know, collaborate over the fact that that was a special day because it was executed in such a high um, like performance way, yet it was, it was in the park and you wouldn't think that it would be delivered in such a way that walking away. So that was just, yeah, powerful. Um, just a little bit of background for folks too that may be tuning in that maybe are not familiar. Many people who do tune into the V Spot have heard about Jessie Lee before. She was one of my first business coaches and she's Courtney's best friend, and we lost her in September of 2023. And so, you know, the world is a very different place without Leslie, right? Like, I speak of this often with so many different people that I meet that I didn't necessarily meet at the time when, when in Jesse Lee's coaching container, you know, I've met in different capacities and it all roads always come back to some level of connection. But how things just don't make sense, right? Social media feels like a different place since she's gone, it's like, it's the quiet is deafening in a sense, right? Like, it's, it's a different world. And I know that it's a day-to-day process and grieving, finding meaning in a new world is quite layered. But I'm going to get back to all of that in a couple of minutes. What I really wanted to begin with as a question for you is, why do you think that Jesse Lee picked you to be her best friend? Let's talk about you for a minute. Why do you think she picked you?

Well, I know that she would definitely want me to say, and I think that you would agree with this, it wasn't just that she picked me, it was also that I chose her. And I think that's super, super important, that relationships are always a two-way street. Sometimes, and, and often, uh, we have to kind of initiate ourselves. We're just talking about this initiate ourselves into, um, the process that you do sometimes have to go through, giving and giving and giving and giving and giving, where you're choosing someone and they're not always choosing you back in the same way. Um, and that, that requires a lot of communication, which kind of gets me into how we chose each other. You know, like, I wasn't going anywhere. I was, um, You know, sometimes you hear like the squeaky wheel gets whatever is the one that's heard. Um, and sometimes people are like, I feel like that's kind of like a whiny thing. But for me, I felt called to be around her and so I showed up. Hmm. And when I first found her and felt connected to her, I was one of those people when I tell the story, cuz she would always be like, you tell the story. I'm like, yeah, cuz you didn't know who I was when I knew you. Of course I should start the story. She's like, I like when you tell it. I'm like, cuz Because that was— I was the one who, like, knew who she was, right? And we laugh about it. I mean, I always— I like to try to transition the story over to her, but I found her in 2015, 2014, in our first company, and it was all belly to belly. And I found her through a Facebook group. And so her first company had already just been acquired, and I had just been, like, finally having belief in myself to start in this profession because I saw someone else for a long time. I kept seeing people that I was like, I can't do it like they do it. And then all of a sudden I saw some person that was like, if she can do it, I can do it because we're so different.

Yeah.

Like, I kept looking at people where I felt like it was— and I'll just be straight, I didn't know this at the time, but it was a reflection of what I wanted to— what I saw myself as wanting to show up as. And I didn't feel like I was quite there. So it was this reflection, right? And then until there was this opportunity where I saw someone who was growing in the space, who was showing up as the, the beginning phases of it and being successful at it, I was like, okay, well then maybe I should start too and give it a try. And if I wouldn't have said yes to an opportunity like Dre and I were talking about in the beginning, um, before we started recording, you know, she said yes to starting her own business when it was just really scary and there's a lot of unknowns and she had no idea like how how many things she would have to be, uh, have to evolve and show up as. Like, you don't have cheerleaders, all these things, right? And I was constantly pulled and drawn to Jesse Lee's energy, and I thought, oh, everyone feels that way. And I remember whenever she went into her first new company, and, you know, like, people talked and they said things in a negative way, and my outlook, my perspective was there's always three sides to every story.

Yeah, totally.

So I want to get to know hers. And so I followed silently and I really got to know her. And I think this is such a huge, um, importance of like just how I show up on social media and how I've always been, is that I got to see her as this influencer before influencers were a thing. And get to know her and follow her by her posting online. Like, I was stalking her, and then I got to know her as a person. And so I have this, this really unique perspective that I started off as someone who was following a person online, and then I built not only a friendship, but, you know, into a— we became family and best friends and, and so much more to that. So many just a much deeper connection through the process. And so I have this unique perspective of what it is like to show up online and to show people who you are. And I think that plays a huge role into the grief process that I've kind of stepped unwillingly, you know, kind of stepped into and inherited this space now, is that I just understand why people feel how they feel and the connection that they have to her and the love and the grief that we all have. You got to meet her and hug her and love her in person, but even without that, you would have still experienced grieving her and the deafening silence that we all experience on social media without her because of how deeply she loved and the way that she was able to just give so much of herself online and in person in those small situations. And I think we just matched each other's energy. So back to your original question, like, how— why did Jesse Lee choose me? Why do I think that she chose me? Um, it was a really long process before we even realized that we did.

Yeah.

And, you know, she often said, you know, it took a really hard conversation. You know, whenever she would share that, it was like, it was a hard conversation because people had come and gone out of, out of both of our lives aggressively fast and furious. And we had been on roller coasters where, um, we had been judged and attacked and hated and all of these for different reasons at different capacities even. And, um, and it was just hard to let people in.

Yeah.

And so as even when she wouldn't let me in, I, I still wanted to show up. And I listened to that calling on me that was like, oh, go see, go see Jesse Lee. Oh, I want to move closer to Jesse Lee. And by moving here, that's when it really became evident that we were we were in it for the long haul because we had a really hard conversation. We were really upset with each other and frustrated by each other, by how we were being treated by each other. And unknowingly, like so often, we avoid those conversations. And in having those, it was obvious for the both of us that, oh, this person is— that's actually my best friend because they're willing to tell me how they feel and listen, right? And choose not to seek to understand where I'm coming from. And it was like we did that for each other. It wasn't a one-way street. It wasn't like just one of us was giving. And to feel safe enough to be able to open and have that conversation. She was like, do you want to talk? I'm like, yeah, let's talk. And we walked out there and we were raising our voices so that other people were hearing us on the other side of the wall and all these things. And like, You know, it's just like we can laugh at it now. But in the moment, it was really uncomfortable.

Yeah.

And it changed everything for us.

So I love that. Thank you. Thank you. Because there's so much that you shared in there, you know, and I think going right to the beginning of choosing each other, you know, and how relationships are reciprocal, you know, and challenging and often call for difficult conversations. But when you love someone enough, you have the difficult conversation. And yeah, I thought about that when I was thinking about, you know, share— like talking with you today and just thinking about the fact that I'm sure there's lots of people who— and I just want to, you know, leave you with this. I'm sure there are lots of people that showed up and wanted to be, you know, in Jesse Lee's world in the way, right? Because she has that infectious, like contagious, you know, really empowering, you know, way. Forgive the, the city noise behind me.

Zoom does a great job. I can't hear it.

Okay, good, good. But she has that way. And so therefore, so many people want to show up, right? But not everyone was given the spot of, you know, best friend. So I just want to really shine the light on that because, like, let's not let that go by the wayside of that. Yeah. And, you know, let's go back to the park for a minute because something I noticed—

a lot of strength. Yeah, it takes a lot of inner strength. I, I want to go back to the park. I didn't mean to cut you off, but I just— something that you even said there that I didn't fully touch on is that you're going to question yourself when you are alongside of such a powerful person, and you're going to question when you hear them coaching because you've had so many intimate private conversations, you're gonna be like, oh my gosh, they're talking about me. She's talking about— she's literally talking to me right now. She knows I'm on this call. And the more that I start to just— I had to really reflect and be like, no, that has nothing to do with her or us and everything to do with how I feel and how I know I'm supposed to show up.

Yeah.

And so, so often in relationships, we, we internalize things and we forget to not only just remember that It's not always about us. And when we think that it is, it's just a sign that we're supposed to reflect and, and, and, and grow ourselves. And also knowing that, um, that if I do feel some type of way, that I need to bring it to that person. Because when they love me and they support me, they're not going to— they don't want me to feel that way, right, by something they said. So if I can't shake it on my own, I need to bring it up to them and let them know, hey, I felt this way. And, um, and I think that that was also really, really massive part of, of our relationship is that, um, I just continued to give and not— and if I thought she was upset or if I thought something was going on, I just had to ask and not internalize it for myself because that would just only bring a wedge between the two of us. And totally, that helped me grow even faster, further, faster because I wasn't so stuck on the possibility of something. I was more in the presence of the now.

Yeah, I love that. And it speaks so much to, um, asking versus assuming, right? When our feelings get hurt, sometimes it's natural, you know, wouldn't even fault anybody for the feelings to be hurt and assume something was personal or something is wrong. The willingness to ask and open up and have the difficult conversation, if it's a difficult conversation, so that there's a better understanding versus a knowing that—

Yes. And I have to take the things that I've learned my relationship with Jesse Lee and apply it to my marriage versus the opposite. Like, because it does require the person on the other side to be able to match your energy. And her and I were so good at it. And so Joshua and I are great at it too, but it's like different dynamics because we're together all the time and raising kids. So you can apply it in that you do.

Yeah, totally. I love that. Um, yeah, what I was gonna say before about the park is that Another thing that I noticed about you the day we were at Central Park is that just like Jesse Lee, you have an ability to make people feel seen and empowered, you know, and it's an effortless way about you, right? This is a leadership skill that is special. And I'm curious, why is it important that your team, your family, everyone you meet feels special and empowered? Because it's something that you do with grace.

Thank you so much. I'm smiling like that because many reasons. It just makes me glow hearing that because for the longest time I didn't know what my superpower was. And, you know, when you're asked and you feel like, I don't know what it is, keep reflecting on it because eventually it will come. It will come to show face, especially the more that you get around other people. Like, Dre and I, like, we, we want— we're, we're entrepreneurs, we're starting, we have our own businesses, we show up, we have to lead ourselves and lead other people. And, um, and whenever you're focused on growth and expansion and what's in the future, it's like these things just start to magically happen. So if you're not there yet and you're surrounding yourself with it through podcasts, and like, I just want to commend you and celebrate you because this is, this is the beginning stages of where you're at if you're not quite feeling like you have people in your life like the way that we're speaking to each other. Uh, so thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. Um, and Jesse Lee had sent me a voice message back in October of '22 telling me my magic ability to not only see people but to also share it in a way that they can see it in themselves. That's good. And, and then I started learning even more about my human design, which was also another layer of process to understanding how I'm, how I'm able to do this. And you ask, why is it so important for me to allow to, to see people and empower them in that process? Is because I just started focusing on treating people the way I want to be treated. Like, it's so important because I know how good it feels to have to be seen, to, to know that, like, you know, like, as the— in June of '22, we went to this event, and I remember, you know, from, from 2020 to probably 2 years ago or so. Even up until this point, I'm realizing what it is now. But I— it was a process of finding myself again and really just identifying my core values and who I am and how I want to show up and what, what do I want people to know me for. Like, how do I want people to feel when they walk away from me? Because it's an experience. Like, I, I want to— I want, I want people to feel like meeting me is an experience. They don't remember what I say, but they remember how I make them feel. And that's not just me. It's not, you know, it's not an ego thing. It's not the selfish thing. It's, it's that we have that in all of us. And I owned it. Yeah, like I owned it for myself. And, and with this really comes a lot of initiations because you will also trigger people and they will feel like you're fake. And that's only a reflection of what they're facing. And you have to let that go and just keep owning throughout it. Who am I and how do I want to show up? And so when I would walk away from people that would lock eyes with me, that would shake my hand strongly, that would, that would leave me feeling like that they would really listen to what I was saying and they were seeking to understand and asking me questions. I was like, that felt so good. I want to give more people that experience.. And so I lock eyes with people and I, and I just own that this is an experience. And I want you to know that you are magical and you have gifts to provide this world. And you are such a unique being that, um, that there are things that only you can do. You have a mission. I mean, Dre, you know, you have a mission, you have a purpose. It's why you, you answered that calling and you, you quit the 9 to 5 and you're like, I'm gonna figure this out. And you said before, like, if I would have known all of the challenges that I would have faced, you still would have done it. She said, I don't know if I would have. I don't know. Yes, you would have.

Right.

Yeah. You're not the same person because we have to be. You wouldn't have been able to take your walks, right? And go live and build this community of beautiful beings. Like, and I just remember all along the way I'm learning, like, You only need 100 superfans to become as successful as you dream yourself to be.

Hmm, I love that.

Yeah, 100 people that really love you. And I'm like, you just have to find out who do you want to be, how do you want to show up, and what experience do you want to let, like, allow people to feel when they walk away from you. Yeah, that's really where it stemmed from. And, you know, it's interesting because in the process I really felt like, oh, I'm really good at coaching mindset and leading people through mindset and all of these things. And, and I couldn't quite identify what it actually was. But if we just take time to listen to people and get to know them, you know, I can't say that I know that this is my God-given gift and I've just learned to hone it in as a skill and develop it over time. But I will tell you that listening and seeking to understand is a skill that we can all develop, just asking questions and really, truly getting to know people.

Yeah, it's so, it's so good. It's absolutely— so there's so many things, I have so many different directions I want to go. Yes, let me go backwards. It's definitely a skill. I feel like this is emotional intelligence at its best, and it's something that can absolutely be cultivated. And to that note, I just want to spotlight— I jotted down a couple of things that you said. Going all the way back in the beginning, this idea of leading self. I just want to spotlight for everybody that's listening, you know, to anyone who is up to entrepreneurship or creative, you know, journeys and all of the things, leading self is often overlooked, right? But it's the biggest piece here, you know, because how can we lead others if we don't lead self? And so I just want to shine the light on that because that's a powerful piece to spotlight. And compassionate leadership, I believe, is the result of— one of the results of leading self, having a particular journey. And I feel it does develop and enhance by way of the journey. So tell us a little bit about your journey. What do you notice about how far you've come?

I'm jotting things down so that I can look back at it. Inside of you recapping that, the way that these questions are obviously flowing, you could— I really feel like at the end of this you'll be able to almost reverse it and really figure out things back to the first question of why is Jesse Lee my best friend? Because the journey of even finding out that first time, I wasn't— it's kind of like, you know, in a relationship, like sometimes you don't want to be the first one to say I love you. I didn't want to be the first one to be like, that's my best friend. I was like, if she's not gonna claim it, I'm not gonna claim it. And I think she kind of felt the same way. So we're like, no. And that conversation, we still hadn't said it. So for those who were on the Celebration of Life, I told the story, you know, the journey to owning being the number one's best friend is a process in itself. And I think that in that journey, you know, I've lived here in Texas for 4 years moving here. You know, we— she was in 3 different homes in the process. I was in 2. She lived with us for 2 months of that. Uh, you know, just like, uh, I've been in— we've been in business together for 6 and— well, longer than that, but we've been in our, in our current company for 6 and a half years. So it's like this— it all coincides for me. Because I have been full-time, a full-time entrepreneur in network marketing as a leader of an organization, massively, continuously growing, you know, for that entire time and working from home. And for the last 4 and a half years, my husband's been home full-time with me, you know, raising our 2 and then 3 children that we had 2, a little over 2 years ago, 2 and a half now. He turned 2. On September 14th. So the, just the process of the journey of all of this, of motherhood and of being a wife and of healing my inner child while raising my own, you know, my oldest is 8 years old now, uh, starting this profession because I needed a few hundred dollars just to feed our family. You know, it started originally because it was fun and then it was like, no, we have to do this. This is like, there's no other option because we're capped out at our jobs and I'm not gonna go work and have to— so all of these different things, it's like the journey is— it's like that is the part that once I really started to die, to just break it down layer by layer and become extremely present in each layer of it that I just described, like when we really think about the journey, I'm trying to be the best leader I can be, I'm trying to find friendships that I like, a community that I can feel a part of and feel like there's more to, to than just, you know, we're all looking for, for a meaning. Like, it's a tribe. It takes a tribe, a village to raise children. It takes a village, a community to feel a part of something. But we're not meant to do this life alone at all. So at the core of our ancestry, like, we are meant to do this together. And I think it's so beautiful to see all of these people. Like, I can't tell you how long I've wanted to live on a compound, and the more that I start to process and the more I'm like Like, not a compound like culty, but like, we joke about it like that because it's like, I would love people that are great gardeners that are my friends to be close to me, and then I can trade my skills that I have. Like you were talking about, it's not, you know, I have physical skills too, also along with being able to see the magic in others and share it with them. And, but that's a huge, massive part of community as well. Totally, you know. And so I have fallen in love with the process of becoming the next version of myself over and over and over and over and over again. I have worked on understanding and developing, um, the emotional intelligence and just being able to adapt in situations and evolve and, and just like surrounding myself with other people that feel that and experience that as well. Gary Vaynerchuk always comes to mind when I think about this because You know, if, if your goal, like we had a goal of paying cash to take our kids to Disney, we did that. It was on my birthday. I was pregnant. We did it. We paid cash. Like I didn't have to, um, I think at the, actually at the time I knew how to use my cards. We didn't have credit cards, so that's why I said that. And then I knew how to use them, so we, we used them and then paid them off. So we earned points for it in the process. Like it felt like, yes, we did this, but it wasn't going to Disney that the goal of actually going there, it felt good, it was a great experience, but it's just like planning the trip. It's like the planning part is the most fun. When you go back to it and then you actually experience being there, yes, it's a great process, but then you know, oh, this is almost done.

Yeah, exactly.

And you need something next. What's next? And so for me, My journey of falling in love with becoming has been the best part of it for me because I don't feel like I've arrived. I don't want to feel like I've arrived. I want to continue to grow and evolve and become a 1% better version of myself every single day. And, you know, just aligning with more people that, you know— and I know that it's a process, like it's this roller coaster of life that I know for sure I'm gonna be on for the next at least 2 years of this up and down, left and right. Like, I can choose to be— to live in— and, and I say that because there's so many things of, of this grief journey. Like, I'm fully aware I have it for the next 2 years. That's what I mean by that. It's like, in case you're wondering, like, well, how do you get the number 2? Like, It just is what it is. I can feel it. Is it exactly 2? I don't know, but I know at least 2 years it's up and down. And I was on this woman's retreat and I said, you know, I'm not going to give it to you exactly because I like screamed and I just like let myself, like the sounds come out of me. And it was like, you know, what happens when we're on a roller coaster? How many of you think about it? How many of you love roller coasters?

I do.

Yeah, but how many people will not get on them, refuse to ride them, are in fear of what could happen potentially? Because, you know, just like flying a plane— planes are safer in the air than they are on the ground. They're not meant to sit. So when I thought— when I was explaining the journey of the roller coaster, I'm like, we're climbing just like we climb the mountain, and the mountain is ourselves. It's this inner, inner piece of us that— do we allow ourselves to truly show up authentically and release, like, shed the layers as we climb the mountain, shed the layers of the journey, like the process that we're going to, the, the learning how to lead ourselves and develop our skills and surround ourselves with more people that are aligned with our vision and our passions and, and where we're going. The people that we would want on our compound are living on our, on our, like, the land with us so that we could you know, share more experiences with them and, and, and just be, be with each other, like, as you're climbing that, you know. For so many of us though, it's like, oh my gosh, like, oh, this is so much work, and we're huffing and we're puffing to get up, and then we stand at the top and we're like, yes, I can see it, I can see where I'm at, I can see the big picture, I get it, right? And then another mountain's put in front of you. Totally. Or you have to fall down the hill and then you're like, you drop down and you're like, oh no, I'm falling. Everything's like the, the money, the income is going backwards, we're losing it all. But think about a roller coaster. You climb up, anticipation of being at the top, and what happened? You're like, oh man, I'm climbing, I'm getting slow, and it creeps, and then you're at the top and that gut feeling is just like It's like you start free falling. So why not shift it and know that when we're being challenged that we can be excited about it because we're about to learn new skills and we're gonna have to adapt and, and be challenged emotionally and it's gonna freaking suck. That free fall was grief. That free fall was losing my best friend. It, it freaking sucked. I didn't ask you to cuss on your podcast, but—

Oh yeah, yeah, no, it's— we Wait, I'm a broken girl.

I know, I'm like, I hit the ask for sure. Like, it fucking sucks, okay? It does. It sucks really, really bad. And this was the first time in the process of the journey that I just allowed— because words matter and they're super important— and I let myself feel it all, and I let myself say when it sucks, especially to those of you who follow me and watch me, especially to those of you who love Jesse Lee. So dearly and, and like deeply, you know, even without knowing her, your grief is valid, your feelings are valid. The journey is a process. Just fall in love with it and own every ounce of that roller coaster of life and climbing those mountains and free falling, because it's so beautiful. And knowing, like, my best friend, guys, like, I was surrounded by the person, the woman who said I know stage 4 metastatic colon cancer wasn't great. Maybe it's not great, but maybe it's the best thing that's ever happened to me. You know, like, maybe it's teaching me things and allowing me to love deeper and allow people to love me deeper. And, you know, losing my best friend, I'm way more present. Physically. Like, I lost her physically. I haven't lost her spirit connection to me, her energy. I still feel her. I still tap into that. And so, you know, it really is all about the journey, the process of becoming, and never fully feeling— oh, like, celebrate being at the top of the mountain. Take it in, look around, snap some photos, experience it, dance, and, and feel the joy in it. And do the same thing on the way back down and climbing the next one too.

I love that because I, you know, again, there's so many things, but I love this so much because oftentimes with clients too, I think society kind of positions us in a sense to be disappointed because there's so much emphasis on the wins, the ups, right? The, the top of the mountain, so the peaks.

That the valley with masculine energy, it's like, go, go, go, you gotta win, you gotta be at the top, you gotta— and I would ask myself, do I have to find something to be number one in? Do I have to find something to push to be number one in? And it's like, part of the journey for me was really like falling in love with— I'm really fucking good at being number two and supporting someone who's at the top and loving them.

And then, yeah, yeah, no, I love that. And it's You know, it's, it's the valleys that have the peaks that much more beautiful, right? And so there's no one without the other. And I think, you know, even with healing work and all, there's this idea of it being like continuous, and it's not like that. It's up, it's down, it's up, it's down, it's all around. So I love that you spotlight that. But the other thing I want to just point out before I move to the next question is this idea of the falling in love with becoming. And I think that's so powerful because it's is totally about being OK with where you are and what's to come, right, versus a not enough narrative or not there yet or when I finally arrive. So I love that. And everybody who's listening, I don't want you to miss that particular piece. This idea of becoming has you in one particular spot, and you're not quite in the next spot yet. But Courtney's shining the light on loving that space because of what's involved the journey, you know, in the development of it all.

That's big. And, and I think with the word becoming, we can, we can potentially get caught up in that becoming is— becoming is actually present. It's a present word.

Yeah.

It's present tense. And so it's, it's really the power of presence that is the most important piece of, of the journey for me is, is just tapping into what is now. And, um, and really a really cool experience at that retreat, and part of being in your feminine energy is slowing down, being present. Yeah. And embracing the things that you're feeling, processing those, because you can't run from them or hide from them by doing all of these different tasks and all of these things, right? And then you're like, look, look at yourself, love yourself for who you are right now, love how you're showing up in the world, and know that, you know what, if I am feeling initiations or challenges or, you know, whatever word we can place on it— which I really feel like replacing that word challenge and obstacle and all those things are like with the word, um, initiation, because it's just a process to becoming. You're being initiated into the next layer of who you're— you're 1% better really truly is. And it, it never stops. It continues to become.

Yeah, no, so good, so good. Thank you, thank you. So becoming is a present experience, um, it doesn't live, you know, in the future. So good. Um, so yeah, I want to go back to like at the beginning I talked a bit about how the world is a different place right, and without Jesse Lee, um, you know, every time I have that thought, which I have the thought often, you know, she's somebody who constantly comes up for me, um, every time I have the thought about how different the world is without her, my next thought is about you. That's always how it goes, you know, because I think about, wow, I'm feeling this way, you know, and it's not about comparing, but it's just about knowing how intense grief is and how the impact. So talk to us a little bit about how losing Jesse Lee and being in the grieving process right now has impacted you as a leader.

How has it impacted me as a leader? I often say I didn't just lose one person. I know that I'm not the only one that lost more than one person. And in leadership, we talked about it in the beginning, that it is not just leading other people. First and foremost, it's leading yourself. And so it rocked everything. Um, she is like started off as a— like, I wouldn't necessarily say a mentor, but a, a leader that I looked up to and over time became this, this mentor of mine that I was like really looking at in ways of how she led in leadership and in business. So a mentor in both of those, maybe not necessarily in life because our lives look totally different, right? Mom, 3 kids, husband, all of those things, right? And over time becoming my best friend. She actually— she was the godmother to my children before my best friend, which is interesting. Um, and, you know, my kids love her. She's the best friend of my husband. She's, uh, completely integrated into every layer of our life. My anchor of trust, you know, um, and, and so much more. And so when you said that before, it was Thank you again for that. Um, I had to really take this big step back, and in the past when it came to leadership, the thing that would catch me up with those I was leading is that I wasn't able to fully communicate how I was feeling and what I was experiencing when I couldn't show up to the fullest capacity. So whenever I, um, was processing this publicly, you know, like such a public loss, uh, there were definitely a lot of upsides to that for sure. And, and also just processes that I knew would come that I needed to be fully aware of how I was going to navigate as well. And being able to have so many people already have this awareness of what I was going through almost gave it— made it easier for me to still also communicate. I didn't back away from that. I was like, I know what I've done in the past. I want to make sure that I show up differently in this. And then there are so many layers to that that have come over the last 6 months of, you know, wanting to— feeling like this is what I want, this is what I want, and this is the vision I see. And also allowing all of these other strong leaders' visions to be able to, um, to be in that as well. But really, the first thing that we had to do was that we had to grieve. Yeah. And we had to just step away and Um, and that was also really, really hard in the process of showing up for ourselves, working our businesses where it felt appropriate for us and it felt not forced. Yeah. Um, and, and still at the same time giving ourselves grace. It's like this, like, it's just thinking of it like the water and flowing and just really trying to I'm not going to force this. I think it's— and then at the same time, it's so public that no matter— I had to have an awareness that no matter what I do, people are going to judge me. They're going to have opinions about it. And there may or may not be some people that, that I will then have to see the kind of opinions and things that they have to say, because sometimes people want to share that with you. Yeah. And So yeah, it just, it's just an interesting— I mean, maybe you kind of like— for me, there's so many layers to it and so many things that I've really had to navigate because I think for many people just losing, um, a best friend, this isn't like that. And I— and it's not to discount what anyone else has gone through. Um, those of you who have lost family members closest to you, it's not exactly like that either. You know, she's not my blood, um, but I did take on for a piece of that grieving experience in my leadership and all of these things where I'm kind of being navigated through like this, um, you know, like there were, there were legal things that I, I was kind of in the midst of, and there were, there was like all these other extra layers to everything Um, and so it's interesting because we said we knew this podcast would kind of unfold exactly and, and line up exactly when it was meant to. And I'm kind of on the— I'm now on the outside of that. So for those of you who have maybe had to be in the legal stuff, I just want to let you know that, um, I feel as though if you're involved in it, you're getting signs. From the loved one that you have that has transitioned. I know you are. Um, and, and if you allow yourself to be open to those and, and just allow yourself to feel, but know that, that the person that you love, their spirit is here trying to guide you and allowing you that— like, they're moving mountains. Yeah. And they're removing all obstacles and they're making miracles happen. And just allow yourself to be patient I've really had to be patient in my journey with my leadership, and I've, um, and I've just tried to learn, unlearn, relearn. Um, I'm healing in this process, and I'm just listening and understanding even more how to process my emotions, how to make decisions effectively, and, um You know, people will tell you you got to take your emotions out of your decisions. I found out I'm actually an emotional authority. Like, I make decisions emotionally. I have to feel it, you know? And people, it's like they just have a gut instinct that says yes or no. For me, I got to process the emotions. I have to take a little bit of time, and then my body will literally say hell yes or no, right? Like, my whole body will feel it. And so I I think that's, that's for me in the process of losing Jesse Lee, I have tapped in so much more into who I am, how I feel, how I make decisions, how I navigate things, how I am showing up not only for myself, but for, for my family, for our organization, for those new people that I'm bringing into my life as well. And really back to that presence and just being intentional with everything I do.

Yeah. Yeah, on purpose, right? The purposeful, intentional living is coming through loud and clear. And something that you spotlighted really in your own share about honing in on your own decision-making really captures nicely where I was going to go anyway, because I was going to spotlight grief being so personal, you know. And it sounded like when you were sharing that, like, you owning your own decision-making process. And, and that's similar with grief, right? How you grieve may be very different than how I grieve, and nobody—

and it's not a race.

Yeah, exactly. Although I think to that note, lots of times people are uncomfortable with grief, so they try to rush you to have it be a race, right?

Where it's And, and, or they rush— they're not, they're not doing— they run away from it, right? Exactly. Rushing is running, like you're, you're avoiding it.

Absolutely. And so for everybody who is tuned in and listening, I really want to encourage you, you know, if you are grieving right now, to turn up the self-care dial, right? Like all the way up. Rest when you need to, cry when you want to. Share your feelings, you know, speak of your loved ones. I think that's another thing because it's so painful. Sometimes people try to avoid it, and that causes all the more grief, right? Because it's— you're not flowing with the grieving process in a way that honors, you know, what's true for you. And people may be uncomfortable, but let people be uncomfortable, right? For anybody listening, you get to experience grief and the grieving process in a way that suits you. And not everybody will understand, you know. Um, I think about, you know, most— Kwani, a lot of times what people focus on with the stages of grief are the 5 traditional stages, you know, denial and bargaining.

And this is me, yeah, stages.

It's like this, right? It's like that, totally.

1, 2, 3, 4, 5. It's like all over.

In any given hour, you can weave in and out of all the stages, right?

Like an awareness to know what those feelings actually actually connect to, like, a stage for sure. They're there for a reason, to— for us to understand them, to know what they feel like. And you're supposed to feel, and you're not supposed to apologize for, for crying. Notice, like, Dre didn't say anything to me. She just let me feel and let me process. Like, it will come when it's— when it, it just happens and it just comes. And there's this video that Tyler Perry is— like, Oprah and Tyler Perry on stage, and this woman asks about something about processing grief, and she starts to cry. She's asking like something about losing her mom, and she just starts to cry. And she's like, I'm sorry. He says, no, grief just happens. You're supposed to feel it. You're supposed to process it. Like, it will come up, and, and that is— you can't stop it. You're, you're meant to experience it, and you don't need other people to say, you know, oh, you've got this, it's okay, you know, like just sit there with them. And if you need to do something, put your hand on your heart and just— and then, and then give it out to them. Like, just give them love. Like, it's okay that they're crying. It's okay that they're feeling. It's meant to happen. And you specifically asked about the process in leadership, but the process overall was, was knowing that when those feelings would happen and people would say, what's wrong? You know, like, you can just say, yeah, I'm just— it's just grief, you know? Like, for those who know that you're going through it, you'd be like, I don't know. Like, I don't actually know what I'm feeling right now. Like, I'm just— I'm just emotional, or these are happy tears, or— and you start to know that. You start to know that the tears aren't always sadness. They're not always anger. They're not always, why aren't you here with me? Why did God do this to me? And you have to really own those thoughts because if you don't own them and face them and express them in some way, shape, or form— one of the things that I did a lot and I'm still doing is writing things down, journaling, because grief really has taken my memory on its own roller coaster as well, knowing that it was like an elephant. And now I'm really just trying to, to find new ways to, to keep things anchored in that I want to remember. And so writing them down has been a really, really helpful part of that process to feel, to cry, to experience, to, to just sit with my grief and how it comes up. And I know that I'm I'm really grateful that I get to do it at home or wherever I am. Like, I, I work from home, I work from my phone, and I, and I don't want you guys to think that you can't just stop in a moment and feel your grief no matter where you are. If you have to go back to work and all of those things, like, you know, our love is with you. Like, just bring that journal and just write and sit with your feelings and allow yourself to process and don't don't allow anyone to rush you through that.

Yeah. And that's healthy grief. That's really what it looks like to experience healthy grieving. Because my work often speaks about time does not heal all the wounds, right? There's some things that just inevitably change us. And feeling it and facing it is necessary. Otherwise, it stays and stays and stays and stays in such a disempowering way for long periods of time. And I know firsthand, like, when my father died in 1998, it was too much. My father was my closest— like, the closest person to me. It shook me to my core. And processing grief at that time was too much. I was 19 years old. It was, for me at the time, easier to check out of that and try to be busy and distract myself and, you know, go on a journey. But years and years later, somewhere around 27, when I slowed down, there it is, right? There's no getting away from it. So I just want everybody who's tuned in to, you know, be with this idea of healthy grief. Allow yourself to feel, you know, be with your emotions, share, talk about your person. It's okay to cry. It's okay if you have a rough day. It's okay if you have a rough week, right? This is— the human experience is complex. But don't rob yourself of the human experience trying to avoid parts of it. I think that's super key.

You know, not only allowing yourself to feel the love, but allowing yourself to receive it as well. Yeah. In this process, sometimes people just, you know, they want to be there to support you. And so allowing those people in is also really healing in this, in this part of the journey. And you said, you said something of in processing, you said when you were younger, for me, when I was younger, I, when I would lose people like my, my, my grandpa, was an undertaker. For those of you who don't know, like, he actually— if, you know, if people pass away, that was where he would come from the funeral home. He worked for the funeral home, for the morgue. Like, he was this, this person that would come and take the person that you lost and then take them wherever they're supposed to go. If they're being cremated or if they're, you know, being, you know, autopsies, etc., like, he takes them exactly where they're supposed to go. Um, and so I was, I was in the funeral home from as long as I can remember until my grandpa— even my stepdad worked for them— until my grandpa like retired. So, um, hearing these stories, it was like I was very much so detached from grieving. I lost my great-grandma who's like my person when I was 4 or 5. And, um, and I, I still remember asking people, like, some people tried to say she was asleep. Um, you know, like at 5 years old, that's what they wanted to say. And. And then other people kind of walked me through different examples of that. And, um, I had even lost a friend that I wasn't— I was close to, and then when I lost her, we weren't as close. And, um, and even not necessarily fully processing that. So this was really truly, at 34 years old, the first time that I had ever really felt this level of grief, grieving. And, um, and I had lost like aunts and like I lost cousins and just like I've lost people. Yeah, this is the first time that I've lost someone and not only lost them, I was there in the room when she transitioned. And so it's, it's, um, like you said, it's very, very personal and it's also extremely helpful that although you know that no one actually understands exactly how you feel, because they can't, it's very personal, no one can. But it's so helpful to listen and open yourself up to receiving and hearing other people's stories and how they process. And, and it's just really, really powerful when that, that having such a public loss that I, I was able to receive so much so many different examples, like you right now sharing losing your, your dad and like not being able to process that at 19. Like, it just gives a new perspective. I'm like, wow, you know, it sucks, but at the same time, I'm able to process and I'm able to feel, and I don't have to rush it. I don't have to go back to a job and have a boss looking over my shoulder while I'm trying to get work done. Like, my work is going live, and I can cry with y'all on live video and not think twice about it. And in my stories, I get to show up authentically like I want to. There's so much of this that, um, that's challenging for me as a unique personal experience. But being able to, to talk to other people and know that I'm not alone in processing grief. Yeah. And in the things that I am feeling and that I am facing, that, that's, that's been probably the best part of, of having to go through one of the, the most challenging seasons of my life, and that I, that I get to build incredible relationships in the process.

Yeah, powerful. The blessings amongst the, uh, obstacles, right, and the, the challenges. But I love how seeing it all so clearly, you know, is, is standing out. There's so many good things. I feel like there's so many places we could go. Uh, for the purpose of time, I'm gonna segue us though into the speed round, right, which will be, um, sort of the cherry on the pie, if you will. Um, no right or wrong answer. I'm going to ask you 4 questions, you know, to sort of transition us. Um, and just go where you feel guided.

Okay.

Do you have any questions before I start?

No, I'm excited for this. I love, uh, I love, I love Let's do it. I'm excited.

No questions. So number 1, what is next for you?

That's a loaded question. What is next for you? What is next for me? I am really currently excited for, you know, like I said earlier in this, I have— I know that there's 2 more years of just back and forth roller coaster figuring this all out, what's next with this or that or the other, etc. Um, and overall I have had this same vision, and what I'm most excited about currently is, is traveling and just connecting with people in person, whether it be, you know, meet and greets and, and taking my family on tour and Um, and traveling to different countries, experiencing Italy for the first time is happening this year. You know, just living my life in, in the now. Um, like, I think that's a, that's really the biggest theme of where I'm going and where I'm heading next is connecting and being not only online but in person and allowing that, that online allowing the in-person connections and building to, to be what is shown online, that you get to do both. I think so often we overthink what we, what we show online, and, um, and if— and then we overthink traveling because it's like, can we sit— but they go hand in hand. And so I— yeah, that's, that's the next phases is really just taking the online and still building online heavily, but really being in person and connecting and meeting people and traveling and touring and all of the things you— we started off with being in, in, um, New York for my first time, right? I have so many new places I want to experience and how magical that was that that event cost nothing. It was, it was for free in Central Park and it was the right people in the right environment. And, um, and I want more of that. And so that's really what's next for me is, is continuing to build our, our, our business and, and leading people into building those 6 and 7 figures from their phones and, and just taking that online experience offline.

So good. Thank you. So good. And I'm excited for Italy for 2024 for you. So good. So good. Okay. Number 2, what words of encouragement do you think Jesse Lee would offer to you during this season of your life?

She has already, actually. Um, I don't really have to think about it. I told you guys, if you're, if you're open to signs, they're sending them to you. And I know what a powerhouse my best friend was physically in this world. Um, spiritually in this world, she's even more powerful. She talked about omnipresence, like she's got it. And, and I don't really care what people think about me saying that at all, because it's my journey, it's my process. And that's not to be rude or anything. I just have people that, that want to be naysayers about that. And, and if it helps us and it helps my kids know that, like, Jessilee's here with us, my, my daughter's like, Mom, I mean, like, she's at our house all the time, don't you think? I'm like, Yeah, I mean, maybe. Yeah, probably. But Mom, like, we have like a lot of people she loves in our house. Like, we got the dogs, then there's like 5 of us. I'm like, yeah, you're right, baby. She's like, so, you know, I just, I know what she would say to me. First thing that she said was, um, and it's literally the background on my phone, is all is according to plan. Um, you know, that she, she said immediately, she's like, she's happy, she's free, she's at peace. I think that was really important for me to know. She's full of joy. She goes around to those and she shares her light. I think that ultimately she's gone through her own, um, process, that she's so appreciative of me and our friendship, and she calls me dear one, and that all is according to plan. That was a direct message for me. And then there was also another message that wasn't just for me, that was right after that through a person speaking and was like, oh, she does not want me to interpret her words. She, uh, she says, do not interpret what I'm saying, you need to repeat it. She's like, she is not happy with me right now. Like, like, that's so Jesse Lee, you know what I mean? So it's like I've known when it's her and when she gives signs. And she also said in that movement moment, I am removing all obstacles, I'm making miracles happen, and, um And I am— wait, I'm moving mountains, I'm removing all obstacles, and I'm making miracles happen. And so that gave me my patience, that gave me everything I needed, that I know that it is all being divinely guided, um, all is according to plan. And that I, you know, that doesn't mean that when God sends a boat you don't get on the boat because, oh, all is according to plan, something— Jesse Lee is sending me a sign. No, that is your sign. It's what— it's, it's open your eyes, it's be open to receive. It's acknowledging that, you know, we weren't on this podcast sooner for a reason. Exactly. I wouldn't have been able to deliver the way that I am today if we would have done it sooner. I wouldn't have given the same answers today. I probably would have cried a lot more. Not that there's anything wrong with that. It's just that I would have felt a lot more emotional doing it. So, yeah, it fires me up because I'm like, she talks to me all the time, you know, like She's always there with me, and I— that's been such a blessing.

I love that. All is according to plan. Powerful. Okay, number 3: name one song that's on repeat in your playlist these days.

Well, the first one I have— I, I listen to a lot of worship. That, that has definitely helped me in the process as well because I've just reconnected with my faith and with God and Just so I've, I've got a lot of those phrases like I can hear it like, come on. And I like, I just, I was like, I'm like, I'm clapping and I'm singing in my car. But the other one that I really love, like, come on, man. Beyoncé. I mean, I love Taylor Swift. I'm not a Swiftie necessarily, but I love her and like what she stands for, business. She's so strong and empowered, like all these things. But Beyoncé getting number one as the first Black woman country artist, I'm like, This ain't Texas. Yeah, I'm learning all the words and like the dances. Like, I just love that song so much. So anything that can put a smile on my face and bring me joy. Um, I— yeah, I, I have a lot, but those are the two that came to mind.

Okay, that's perfect. Great. All right, and number 4: What words of wisdom would you like to offer the woman in the mirror?

It's interesting because that so often we're asked in the past or to the future. You're literally saying look at yourself and tell yourself something right now. Um, trust yourself. You know exactly what you're doing and how to do it, and you are more powerful beyond— than beyond measure. You know, you you have this way to connect with people, and the right people are being brought into your life and being removed from it in the process. Um, that the next wave is, is unfolding exactly how it's supposed to, and there are no coincidences, only synchronicities.

I love that. Yeah, that makes me— my mom says to me often, there's no coincidences, there's God incidences. And I love that because it's just like everything is divine and happening, you know, spotlighting the people coming in, the people leaving. Everything is as planned, you know.

I love it. Yeah, and we get to choose because we have, we have, uh, willpower. God gave us that too, you know, like freedom to choose. We get to choose. Get to. We don't have to, we get to.

Yeah. And you know, one of the personal development companies that I've taken a lot of workshops from often points out even choosing not to choose is a choice. So it's, it's super powerful.

Leslie Lee would always say whether or not you're creating the culture intentionally, like whether if you're, you're either creating it intentionally or someone's creating it for you.

Yeah, exactly. I love that. Courtney, where can the people find you?

Oh, I am on all platforms. You can actually even Facebook forward slash Courtney Shortney. I spell Shortney like I spell Courtney, C-O-U-R-T-N-E-Y, and then Shortney with the S-H on the end. And I also, I, I like, I have, I, the, I'm on Facebook, I'm on Instagram, I am on TikTok, really getting back into rebuilding the content that I'm producing and, uh, getting back to the podcast as well of Unleash Your Inner You, which is also on all platforms. Um, so I'm excited for the next phase of, of that experience too. I think it would be really powerful to have you on there. And, um, thank you for asking. I appreciate it. And I'm, I look forward to to this, this episode being released so that I can share it with everyone as well.

Yeah, thank you. And thank you so much. I really want to spotlight, you know, I host a podcast called the V Spot where vulnerability is the cornerstone. And because of that reason, I don't share in advance. For those of you who may be new listeners, I don't share with guests what am I going to ask, where are we going to go. So I really want to thank you for trusting me. I recognize when it comes to having such a vulnerable conversation about grief with so much emotion attached to it. I don't take lightly that you said yes to be here today. And I want to say thank you for, you know, leaning into the courage, the generosity to share from your heart in this way. We appreciate having you here. Super grateful. Looking forward to sharing out the episode too. And everybody, thank you so much for tuning in. You know, follow Courtney. And, um, until we meet again for the next episode of the V Spot, to be continued.