Shame - Bonus Episode of The V Spot

Hello everybody and welcome to The V Spot. I'm your host, Andrea Mancuso, founder and CEO of Intentional Healing and Wellness. I created this podcast because I believe vulnerability is our true superpower, and I want to promote a safe space where we can come together and engage in conscious and courageous conversations to encourage individual and collective healing. In The V Spot, we will choose courage over comfort as we speak our truth and pave the way for others to do the same. For each episode, we will unite in empathy and embrace our superpower as we spend quality time together here in the V Spot. Thank you for tuning in.

The first panelist we have is the facilitator and ICF PCC— that rolls off the tongue difficult— Certified Coach Tamara Lynn. So we're super excited to welcome Tamara Lynn to the stage. Tamara Lynn, welcome, welcome, welcome. Hi everyone, thanks for being here. I'm super excited to have you. Our second panelist is the founder of the Rebel Camp. He's a community builder and he's a wellness advocate. So up next, we have Oshim Phoenix joining us. We have Oshim in the house. Welcome, Oshim. Thanks for being here. Our third panelist is a— thanks for joining. Our third panelist is a leadership strategist and coach. We have Dr. Maury DiGiovia coming into the seat.

Here we go.

Here we go. And our last but not least is our shaman, healer, educator, and entrepreneur. We have Leonardo Parra coming to the stage. So thank you, thank you, thank you. Dr. Maury, I see you, I see you. Looking fine, looking fine. So I just want to publicly say thank you to the 4 of you for joining us in the V Spot. When I think about conscious conversations and I think about vulnerability, I've had the privilege and honor to be with each of you sharing in special moments pertaining to those two aspects. And so when I really thought about tonight, you know, I was super excited to invite you. So thank you for accepting the invitation and thank you for being here with us tonight. Brené Brown talks about the three components of vulnerability being uncertainty, risk, and emotional exposure. And tonight was designed with those three components in mind. The panelists don't know what questions will be asked of them. They graciously agreed to be here tonight knowing only the topic, which was vulnerability and shame. And so if that's not courage, I don't know what is. So I, I really want to just honor them in this moment and really highlight that their willingness to participate, given those aspects of the night, really is a testament to who they are. And so, you know, big shout out before we actually even begin. Shame was found to be the number one reason why people were uncomfortable with vulnerability. And so shame is a self-conscious emotion directly linked to our sense of self. And to move through it, we need to speak about it. And we actually need to understand how it impacts us. When I was preparing, I thought that one of the first things before we hear from the panelists that I wanted to highlight was the difference between shame and guilt. So in short, the primary difference: guilt is a focus on behavior, and shame is a focus on self. Guilt is, "I did something bad." Shame is, "I am bad." Guilt says, "I'm sorry, I made a mistake." Shame says, "I am a mistake." So shame is correlated with addiction, depression, eating disorders, bullying, violence, suicide. And it's important for us to know the difference between shame and guilt because of the outcomes that shame is connected with. So the more we can separate who we are from our behaviors, the less likely we are to experience those dangerous outcomes. Okay, so I wanted to start by highlighting that important fact. Shame is the intensely painful feeling or experience of the belief that we are flawed and therefore unworthy of love and belonging. So I'll circle back to that definition a little bit later, but for the first question of the night, I'm going to ask the first question of Tamara. So Tamara, thanks for going first. You facilitated hundreds of workshops with thousands of individuals who you've coached through their shame. What have you learned about shame as a result of your coaching experience?

Great question. Thank you. And I'm happy to go first. So I think, you know, so first I would say that shame is something that we all experience. It's not something that is unique to any individual, but it is something that makes us feel isolated and as though we are unique and alone in the experience of shame when it is something that all human beings share, although they may learn to express it differently depending on what culture they come from, what country they come from, what language they speak, right? And so there's many different ways in which we express shame or the manifestation of shame happens, but it's something that we as human beings all experience and it is something that actually brings us together. And it's something that we learn very early on, right? Um, in messages from— right, and the foundation of shame is an unworthiness conversation, and unworthiness conversations are passed down generationally, right? So you, you learn how to experience shame, you learn what shame is from the conversations that your parents have had about shame and what to to be ashamed of. Now, what we learn to be ashamed of may differ based on your upbringing, right? So, you know, I'm from the Caribbean, and there is— and that is, right, you need to have shame about everything, and you're even like called out, like, of not having shame if you behave in a certain way, right? And so it's— and it It's almost like a badge of honor, the shame that you feel, right? But it's something that we learn very early on, especially as children when you're told, "No, don't do that. That's bad," right? You feel a sense of being wrong, not that you did something wrong, but that you are wrong, you know, going back to your definition of what shame is. What I have seen, and in supporting people and letting go of their shame, and you know, that really the foundation of the work that I do and the work that we do is that shame takes your power, right? And your, and your power is really what allows you to stand firmly in who you are, right? And it allows you to empower and inspire other people as well. Right? And it's taking up valuable energy in your life, right, that you could be using for other things, right? So it prevents you from being in the relationship of your dreams, from having friendships that are deep and meaningful, prevents you from, you know, having— going on your dream vacation, from having the career that you love, from having— from being parent, right? The parent that you know that you want to be, right? And so it influences all of these different areas of our lives, right? And it prevents us from taking action, right? Even though we can see, see what we want, it can prevent us from taking action. So we don't, because we're so afraid of experiencing that emotion, or we're so deeply rooted in the shame that we feel.

Wow, I love that. Mic drop. Thank you, thank you. So it's been said that shame grows in secrecy, silence, and judgment. And so the second question is for Leo. Leo, based on your personal experience and from working with other men, how does secrecy silence and judgment cultivate shame in your perspective?

You know, in sort of just like thinking on the topic prior to this conversation and sort of going over different episodes of my life, now that you're talking about men specifically, because I have worked with men, I realized that a lot of my close friends and a lot of the The young men that I grew up with came from single-parent homes. I think, you know, today being a single-parent mother is more acceptable than it was back then. And so when Tamara spoke to shame being hereditary, I'm clear that I understood that well before I even knew what that meant. Like, it hung over me like a dark cloud. I think the opposite extreme of that is that we're all caught up in Western culture, which is highly competitive and driven by the acquisition of things that give us value. And so there's an implied spirit of silence that we all sort of have to sign up for. We're all out in the open, but there's a spirit of silence in terms of the things that we know are hurting us or the things that we know are hurting other people. And we sign up to either ignore them or bypass them. And I think in working with men, um, the rooms that I've been in, a lot of men have walked in exhausted from feeling powerless, yet knowing that there's all this power that sits beneath them. There's like a power that's looking to rage up and take control, not just of their lives, but of the circumstances that surround them. And, you know, there is that when you speak of that judgment, because we are all co-opted by the spirit of silence. The moment that you speak up, you know, there's a negative stigma that comes along with maybe perhaps not having the right words. And we all know that we grow in relationship, we all grow in conversation, and unfortunately, because And it's not, you know, I know that there's a big conversation between like gender wars right now, but men silence each other too. You know, like, you know, you have boys, you know, I hear it now more because, you know, I'm also working with young men, you know, that when a young man tries to, you know, speak up on behalf of what he believes to be the proper value set, he's either called gay or his masculinity is diminished. Um, and, uh, you know, I, I think to a certain extent we all, we all suffer from that. I personally can say that my experience has been, you know, in looking back at, at everything that I've had to accomplish to get to where I am today, that I was actually whole and complete from the beginning, but I had to shatter myself into different pieces to fit into places that were way smaller than who I was. And that was from very young. So, and I think a lot of men struggle with that because they don't have the language. You know, we're told to keep plowing through everything and to conquer. And, you know, it takes a great deal of courage to strip yourself down to the bare bones and start all over again. It's, you know, I've been on the planet for 40 years. I've been doing the healing work for 15. That's a third of my life. And, you know, to go through an entire, you know, 2 decades, 2 and a half decades, thinking that you got it right, to then have to like go back to square one. So when you were a little boy, you know, that's, that's, it's humbling. It really is humbling. And then to see other men begin that journey is even more humbling. So yeah, I, I think we still are trying to develop language around it that is compassionate and also forwarding So my experience has been that.

Thank you.

Thanks, Leo. You see why I chose these folks? Epic. So shame feels exactly the same for men and women. It's a universal feeling. However, the messages and the expectations that fuel shame are said to be organized by gender. And so for women, shame is about doing it all, doing it perfectly, and making it look effortless. Effortless. And it's a— it's an unattainable expectation. For men, it's about not being perceived as weak. And so the next question is for Dr. Mori. Do it all, do it perfectly, and make it look effortless. As a powerful and successful woman, how does that resonate with you?

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Not you, right?

Not me. I have no idea. I'm clueless right now. Uh, good night everyone. Um, so yes, uh, the do-it-all, be perfect— what came to my mind as you were talking about women And I think of my own self where it's like this topic has like, of course, you know, once you agree to have a conversation on shame, all memories and thoughts of where shame has generated comes up. And the first thing that came to my mind was body image. And, you know, growing up being thicker than a snicker, right? And to Tamara's point, having Caribbean roots and Trinidadians, that's my, that's my, those are my people. She fat, eh? She fat. She real fat. And I remember, like, living in— living in Trinidad. I was born in Brooklyn and raised in Trinidad and being slim and then coming to the States in a little bit more sedentary lifestyle, got thick, and then would go home for the summers and it was always how big I am. Like, I am big. And then it was My dad was not in my world, and I'm a Digovaya. That's his side of the family. You know, the Digovaya women, they're real big. I used to think like, these women must be like the most Amazonian, Amazonian, like huge women ever. And it affected body image tremendously to where, like, now of course I'm 46 and I could look back into Leo's comments around engaging in transformation work and where you get to see perspective. I look back on myself, I was like, you know I should have taken a naked picture when I was 19, right? I look good, right? But growing up, hearing things, right, made— gave me shame around how my body looked. And eventually that caught up, right, to where I was overweight, significantly overweight, to where, you know, I had bariatric surgery to reset my body, right? And The shame in this time and reflecting, and thank you so much for inviting me to this conversation, Andrea. What I've come to realize too is that shame was given to me, right? The idea that you're perfect as you are and you're enough, right? I didn't lose that on my own. It was communicated to me. That there were things that were gaps, right? So the body image thing is real. And I think the, the hold it together for as a woman, like, I've got this, right? Um, you know, I'm gonna make it happen. If it is to be, it's up to me, and I'm solely the one responsible, and not necessarily leaning in. So yes, having that independent, fierce woman, I can, I can do all things, I can raise the children, I can slay the cow, I can cook the I can, you know, make all these things happen and not drop the ball, right? Because if I drop the ball, I have ceased to be a woman, right? And women get these pressures, right? Like, so I'll have friends who don't have children yet. And it's like, I've seen people maybe unintentionally shame them into like, why don't you have kids yet? Like, why aren't you married yet? And these societal norms that get placed upon you that are not fair. And I don't know what measuring stick we're using to create this illusion. And then the other side of it, when you are married and you do have children, like, where are you not doing it enough? Do you always order Uber Eats? Don't you ever cook for your kids? Don't you ever do these things for your family? Right? So it's like, you can't win. And I'm so like, we're coming into this conversation, I'm just really struck by when did we start hearing other people and what influence that came and gave us the shame that we hold, that I'm not enough, right? I'm not standing in my womanhood strong enough and how that it breaks, right? And so until you do some significant mirror work where you can look at yourself and say, you know, I am enough, I am complete, there's nothing that I am missing, right? I'm doing it my way, singing Frank Sinatra, right? This is my life and I get to live it powerfully. There's a lot of unpacking that gets to get done because to your definition earlier where it's not, it's the I am not enough, right? And in that declaration, the breakdown of the human spirit, the breakdown of the human condition where you're not able to sit with others who seemingly have it together. And meanwhile, they probably are in some degree of pain also that hasn't been unpacked, that may have been given to them by other people. And then now you're defining yourself in life as a grown adult through the lens of someone else. So you don't necessarily always know who you are until you make that effort to say, it's time for me to define my narrative. It's time for me to take it back. Back. I'm going to apply the law of the opposites and flip it so that this shame gets redefined, right? So for me, with the body image piece, it became like, okay, what am I going to do to restore my health? What am I going to do to restore who I am within my— in my body, right? And then of course, when I had that bariatric surgery, you're losing a lot of weight. Now you're losing a lot. You're leaving— like, you're losing way too much weight, right? But by that point, By that point, it was like, boo, I don't want to hear it. I like being a size 10. You don't like it, that's my problem, right? But being grown enough to be able to handle that conversation, right? Because there was a rumor that I was sick, and I was like, I'm not sick, just getting my life right. Um, Carnival's coming, right? I'm getting my life, and I know how I want to look, right? And that's that, that's, that's that. But in all seriousness, it is, it is the Being— for me, it's been being aware of where people are giving me my narrative and where I get to reclaim that and say, this is the woman who I am, and I'm happy with that.

Thank you.

Thank you.

So men are said to have two switches when it comes to shame: pissed off and shut down. So, Oshun, the next question is for you. Being perceived as weak is said to be the primary source of shame for men. What are your thoughts about men being pissed off and shut down when it comes to shame based on your experience?

Um, man, first of all, thank you, uh, for allowing me to be here. And, um, that's a heavy question because I like— I'm the quintessential poster boy for like, whatever, like toxic masculinity is a campaign, I was that guy. You know what I mean? Like, I've been, me and my dad, we've been drinking since 14. My dad was a big drug dealer in the '90s. I was taught that weakness is crying, showing emotion was weak. Just basically taught all the wrong things by really amazing men. They could have been really amazing, Um, but they weren't taught about their emotions. Um, when you say that we have like two switches, I agree with you. I agree with you. We don't have really that option of being like, hey guys, I'm gonna cry because I'm sad right now, and that's a general emotion that happens because we have certain emotions. And I didn't have that opportunity until I was in my late 30s. Yeah, and I'm 42 right now. And what it does is it keeps you from your greatness. It keeps you from embodying your full self. And I had to really, in the last few years, because shame and guilt have been the primary reasons why I haven't reach certain levels in my life. And I always say this: shame is a disease. It's curable, but it's a disease. And guilt is a common cold, right? Because on a day-to-day basis, we can feel guilty about something, right? I didn't hold the door open for this person. Oh, I feel guilty about that. Oh my God. But I get over that easily. But shame is a fucking disease. It's a disease. And If you don't realize that it's curable, you will carry that for the rest of your life. But the thing about shame that makes it so aggressive and oppressive and heavy is that we compound it. So it's like that shame from when you were a kid, that shame from when you were a teenager, that shame from when you were an adult. And it's just compounded, compounded. So now it's shame is shaping your personality, right? It's shaping your personality. And for most men, we are looking at ourselves through a set group of standards, right? Protect, provide, and absorb. That's protect, provide, and absorb. And protect and provide. If we can't do those two things for the woman in our life, our family members, our close friends, we don't matter. Now, on the absorb end, what most men do, we just absorb all the nonsense and stress that happens, whether that be work-related, uh, relationship-related, family-related. We just absorb it and absorb it and absorb it until we can't absorb it anymore, and then we combust. The issue is that when we combust and we can't take it no more, we usually take it out on the people closest to us, which are the women in our lives. And that's either going to be the woman that you are romantically linked to, or your mother, or some sort of matriarchal energy. Because she's going to be the only one that understands you. And it— and that's when it becomes toxic. That's when it becomes a problem. And that, that's just personally how I feel. So men are taught to protect, provide, and absorb. But what we don't understand is in between that, uh, that, that provide and absorb, what we can do is set boundaries for ourselves and boundaries for other people. And say, you know what, I need some me time. I need to work on my mental health. I need to realize when I'm being unreasonable or toxic. But we're not taught that. What we're taught to be is just be fucking tough. If you cry, you're not a man. That's how I was raised. That's how the majority of men in my circle— and I know a lot of men. I started a men's group. Which is probably the top 5 most popular men's groups in this world, Mastermind Connect. Most men are not taught how to deal with their emotions. So what they do is they go to external things like drugs, alcohol, random sex, things that can like, okay, okay, I'm reset now, I'm good, right? But that's at the cost and benefit of somebody else. So what you're doing, or work— thank you, Leo— or work, right? Like, I'm grinding, son, I'm hustling, son. And that's when it becomes a problem or issue for other people that are in your life and/or around you. Um, we need to not just unlearn, we need to develop healthier habits as it pertains to how we deal with life. Because if you don't know how to correct yourself and check yourself and say, you know what, I'm, I'm the fucking problem, you'll constantly be projecting on the people in your life. Everybody else, it'd be everybody else's fault. And when you realize that people only allow what you allow, then you can't really be whole as a person. So most men, they blame everybody else for their problems and issues. Because that's what they were taught to do. They were taught to pick up a hammer and hit the nail. They weren't really taught to ask questions like, why am I hitting this nail with this hammer? Is there a better way to do this? We weren't taught that, especially the way that this country has, has been for the last umpteen years. So what we do at Mastermind Connect, which is a men's group that I founded 6 years ago, is we help men connect to their higher selves. We help men connect to community initiatives that will help them find themselves through those community initiatives and question their archaic beliefs in what it is to be a man. So what we do is help them develop different switches instead of like, be tough, or, you know, like what you mentioned. And that has been work for me for the last decade. I still don't have all the answers. I'm still learning myself as a man. And I'll land the plane here. Like I said, when it comes to shame, shame is a disease. Guilt is a common cold. And until you solve that disease, you will constantly hold your own self back from your true greatness in life, whether that's being a great father, a great husband, friend, whatever it is. So my journey in the last few years has been to solve my own shame, things I feel shamed about, which is the biggest thing that I feel shamed about, that I felt shamed about, was failing at marriage and my divorce. That was the biggest thing that I had to get over. And I recently just got over that. And now I'm living in my fullness. So I don't know if any of that made sense.

Yeah, no, thank you, thank you. It made total sense. And I think we could all agree that we are all figuring it out. I don't think that anybody on this call has fully arrived, and that's the beautiful part of the journey. And the fact that we get to, um, while we can opt into our journey, only we can opt into our journey, we don't have to go it alone. Um, so thank you, Oshun. So it's essential to highlight that shame is a highly individual individualized affect. It's very personal. And so what causes shame for me may not have an effect on you. For me, the greatest source of shame has been connected to my body and my weight. What I know now that I didn't know 60 pounds heavier is that untreated depression, anxiety, and panic attacks was the effect. The cause was shame. So my journey through shame meant navigating very murky waters, and I wouldn't change it for anything because on the other side, I've discovered and continue to discover freedom, breakthrough, grace, forgiveness, possibility, and so much more. So at this time, I'd like to invite each panelist to take a few moments to share any personal insight, personal experience that you feel guided to share about your own journey. You know, feel free to highlight any realizations, any words of wisdom that you've gained access to as a result of your particular process. But since it's clear that it's very personal, very individualized, I wanted to open up the space to each of you to share what comes up for you personally. So I don't know if you want to go in the same order, we can, we can do that. We could begin with Tamara. No pressure.

Thank you. Of course.

You know, I think at different points in my life it has looked different, right? My process around came and what that process was. And I think for a very long time it was a reaction, right? So I reacted to— you are not— my thought process was, you are not going to make me feel this way, and so I am going to rebel and prove you wrong, right? And so it And I gained so much success through that method, right? Like, I'm going to prove you wrong, right? Because I'm not going to be made to feel wrong. And I had a tumultuous childhood, right? So I had my dad as an addict, and my mom was very physically abusive and verbally abusive. And so there was a constant, you are wrong and it is your fault. Those were messages that I often heard as a child. Then I tended to repeat those patterns as we do in relationships in my life. For a long time, made myself wrong until I had the reaction that no one is going to make wrong again, right? Which I think is, you know, it worked up until a point, right? It was a tool that worked up until a point, right? And then I realized that it's exhausting to constantly rebel, right, against this old belief that I have that wasn't even my stuff to carry, right? And so I think so much of the shame that I personally experienced was other people's stuff that, because it was too heavy for them to carry, I ended up carrying as well, right? And so, um, I think when I learned tools to respond as opposed to react, right? I was able to put those tools into this, right? And I think it's important to constantly put yourself in a position where you are able to really look at yourself, right? I think it was someone mentioned the mirror before, right? But to constantly really be able to look at yourself in the mirror and to have that awareness. Otherwise, you're walking around carrying somebody else's stuff and thinking that it's your own, right? And the tools that you're using are tools that you're not using the right tools for the appropriate situation. So when you react in instead of respond, you're using tools that are outdated, right? Because the reaction comes from your history, right? And your history wants to pull you back, right? And shame also comes from history, whether that history is yesterday or 10 years ago or 15 years ago, right? And so when I experience shame today, like as I am with the work that I have done, and I still experience shame. There are moments where I just let myself have it. Right? I'm gonna sit, I'm gonna cocoon myself, I'm gonna have a snack. I'm gonna play a really sad song. Right? Or lash out at someone.

Right?

And I have, I definitely have those moments. Right? But the way I make amends now is different.

Right?

It's recognizing that I don't need to be on the defensive all the time.

Right?

It's using the tools at my disposal. It's allowing the physical sensation of shame to, like, be and be present to what that physical sensation is, because for me, it occurs in my body often. And so I get to be present to what that physical sensation is. Right. And I think, you know, the way that we talk to ourselves is key. Right. And then sometimes there's only so far that I can go in taking care of myself. And I need other people to take care of me.

Right.

You know, there's Well, really only so far. I hear it all the time. People say it all the time. There's only so far we can go alone. And I think we normally apply that to goals that we have. We rarely apply that to what it means to be taken care of and being taken care of inside of community. And when we are experiencing shame, I think, is one of those moments where we need a community of people to take care of us. To hold us, to support us, right? And so it's accessing vulnerability to reach out to someone and say, I need you in this moment, right? Whether it's to sit with me, to hold me, to remind me of who I am, right? I need you in this moment. Wow.

I love that. And that's work.

That's work.

That could be work right there, right? Because of, you know, a tendency to handle it in the conversation of women and what drives the narrative of, I got it, I'm doing it, I'm handling it. Asking for support in itself is great work.

Yeah. And I think, you know, that the recognition of knowing that there people there and cultivating those relationships and letting go of the shame around feeling shame that you even have to ask for support to begin with, right, is work in itself, right? Because there's shit like, I can't believe I need— how come— how— why can't I do this myself, right? What's wrong with me, right? Like, why can't I handle this, right? And learning that that is not something that's true, right? It doesn't mean that I am less than or that I'm wrong, right, just because I asked someone for support, right, or I couldn't do it by myself. It means that I'm a human being living on planet Earth, whether I'm a man, a woman, they, them, right, whatever gender we identify identify as, right? But it means that we're human.

That we are.

Yeah.

That we are. Thank you. I love that. Yeah, and I love what you highlighted too about checking into if we are carrying around other people's stuff and having identified for you in your own particular journey that you did identify that stuff you were carrying around didn't belong to you. And how powerful that is to actually, you know, realize that.

Yeah.

And how freeing.

Yeah. I mean, great word. Yeah. That's like freedom. Yeah. Freeing. Yeah.

Talk about being able to travel light once that realization occurs. I like that.

Yeah.

Um, thank you. Thank you, Tamara. Leo.

Yeah. Thank you for that share, Tamara. That was great. Um, You know, I'm somebody who's really excited about the period of time that we're living in. It's sort of sitting at the crossroads between a revival of indigenous culture. Like we're seeing so many people bringing back ancient traditional beliefs and practices that are allowing them to be fully expressive. While at the same time we're seeing how technology might be able to impact and create rather lasting impact because we have the ability now to connect at such high speeds. So I think one of my biggest revelations along the way has been how, rites of passage and, you know, rituals have been stripped away from the human experience to the point that we never actually recognize transition points in our lives that actually end up creating breaks in our psyche and our self-image in, in a way where we never actually stop to fill in the gaps or heal ourselves when we cut ourselves on those jagged edges when we are transitioning from one place in life to the other. So what I, you know, I think over the last 2 years, I'm, I've been really, when I first started doing this healing work 15 years ago, I think the progression was like a lot of people, I feel like there's a 1% that keeps going all the way to the top of the mountain, but it generally starts with like personal and professional development because it's like the most accessible thing that we have. And then at some point, if you have the courage to step into personal healing work, then that's a whole thing around therapy and, you know, the, the healing work that comes with like really sitting down with all the different stages of your development. Somewhere along the line, if you have the courage, then you climb to the very top of the mountain and you start doing spiritual work. And I think over the last couple of years in combining all those things, you know, I ran across a term that I think should be made commonplace today so that everybody gets an opportunity to really understand themselves is chronic post-traumatic stress disorder. You know, a lot of people are familiar with what, you know, post-traumatic stress disorder is because it's a one-time event and it's usually like It's a big break. It's like soldiers coming back from war, but being neglected, ignored, dismissed, it's like a paper cut that just gashes and gashes and gashes to the point that you hit the bone. So how many paper cuts does it take to get to the bone? And I think in talking about rites of passage And doing the healing work now, I almost, you know, I guess like using a popular culture, you know, sort of work now, right? Everybody's like looking at The Mandalorian. I think of myself as the Mandalorian walking, you know, Baby Yoda back home. Like I'm constantly responsible for the child that was either abandoned, dismissed, neglected, or abused. And to Tamara's point, now when I seek to establish relationships, because I think when people start healing and they start searching for community, it becomes very easy, almost in desperation, to just want to surround yourself by everybody and anybody. And what I've learned over the years is to become really responsible about finding people who now I coined to be spiritual doulas. Like, I, I, I, I just like Tamara, you know, the experience of like finding myself regressing to a point where it's like, oh damn, I'm like running through the dark night of my soul all over again. And I have to sit in the darkness. I have no choice but to sit in the darkness. But then who can I reach out to so that, you know, there is somebody there who who can support me, because what I understand is that I'm birthing something new. And so, um, that's been one of my big realizations is really like the work is continuous, um, because that the higher, you know, like Oshun was saying, I'm sure that many people have missed out on opportunities because of shame. Um, but you know, as we progress and we grow, The road to becoming shameless actually opens you up to tremendous possibility and opportunity. And so, you know, I think, I think for me that, that other part of the realization is really like the work is continuous. I'm not gonna be able to drop this kid off, you know, like he's on my back, I'm responsible for him and the places that I'm going, I'm bringing, and he's actually an asset. It's that, that, that's, that's where my vulnerability lies. The grown man is, is, is the, is the completion of the child soldier, but my vulnerability actually lies in that child. That child was pristine and pure and complete when he came here. And for the vast part of, I would say like even the first 15 years of my life, it wasn't until, you know, I was surrounded by other people who were also compromising that I began to compromise too. So, Um, yeah, I think that's the biggest realization for me. It's, it's, it's bringing all those tools together for, for complete healing and consistently.

Anybody who has been destined for greatness or to do things that are outside of the normal structure or context of regular society has gone through a thing. You ever go to somebody's Wikipedia page and you're like, wow, they made $12 million. Wow, they invented the iPhone. Wow, they did this? And then there's always that gray area. It was like they were on alcohol for a couple of years. They got divorced. They lost $5 million. They were publicly embarrassed for a few years. And you're like, damn. Oh my god. But then there's that turning point in that Wikipedia reading that you're reading where it's like gained their momentum back, came out of prison, bounce back, made $5 million, national spokesperson for depression, blah, blah, blah, blah. And there's like that get back period. And for me, I just got out of that gray period in my life. And I'm proud of it. I'm proud of it. I wasn't always proud of it. I was the playboy, popular guy who had all the women. Money was easy to me. I didn't want for a thing. Um, you know, I was a, I was a fucking cheater in my marriage, all types of crazy things. And I, and I literally had instant karma with everything. I'm not painting myself out to be this angel just because I come from an abusive household. Um, that was a part of my wanting to be validated and people to love me and all of these things in my adult life. There was a shame that was bubbling and, and, and, and, and, uh, just sort of slow cooking throughout my earlier years in my adulthood, but it didn't come to a head until I was faced with real choices. So I will say this: once I got through all of that, like how I feel about myself, You know, and I want to say this to the people, and I'm going to make my point to the people that are feeling shameful about their bodies. I've always been in shape. I'm a former MMA fighter, athlete. I've always been in shape. Even when I've gained 2, 3 pounds over what I'm used to, I used to feel shame about my body. I wouldn't go to the beach without my shirt off. There was a certain level of shame. But then I would see my boys who were like, you know, just like, I don't work out at all. I don't eat right, whatever. And they would just be on the beach and just like, I'm loving life. We in Miami. They accepted themselves. That was the difference between me and them. I didn't accept myself. I was living for everybody else's validation. They accepted themselves no matter what. And I always was low-key envious of that. Like, how do I accept myself fully? No matter if I feel like I'm out of shape or overweight— there is no such thing as out of shape— no matter where my financial situation is or whatever it is, how do I accept myself no matter where I'm at in life? And I struggled with that for years until I learned these 3 things. And I'm going to land the plane here and let the next person go. I became bold, shameless, and consistent. And I'll repeat that: bold, shameless, and consistent. And I want to talk about the shameless piece in this because this thing is about shame. Shame has been the most difficult thing to get through because I was raised in poverty. I was raised in an environment where everybody was raised in an abusive environment. And it was left up to me to break this generational curse. That's not my responsibility to break a fucking generational curse for an entire family line. So I said, I'm just going to do me and be myself. And once I accept myself, I am liberated and sovereign. Bold, shameless, and consistent. And I realized with being shameless, it was going to take work. And when I became shameless in regards to who I am, like, yes, I'm imperfect. I've made mistakes. I was married. I'm divorced. And then I had another relationship that I just got out of that technically to everybody failed, but I'm great with her. Where does it end? Where does the judgment end? It ends with me. And the shameless piece for me allows me to keep going and maintain my confidence within myself without allowing outside opinions and judgment to dictate my life path. So I wake up every day and give thanks for everything, no matter what it is. I give thanks because that seals the deal between me and my God, the universe, whatever it is you believe in. And those 3 things being bold, shameless, and consistent has allowed me to get closer to the purpose and the goal of my life and nobody else's. I don't care what nobody else is doing. As long as I'm okay with myself. I don't look at them as past mistakes. I look at them as lessons. And I was in a place of shame for 4 years, guys, for 4 years. And I'm going to share this little piece with you. And I'm going to end it here. I know I keep saying I'm going to end it.

Thank you, Andrea.

Last year, I started the Rebel Camp to help people get through the pandemic. Just because I knew people would need it because they were mentally going through things. And I even met Andrea through my platform, the Rebel Camp. I didn't know what the fuck I was doing. I just told people to embrace the madness. And use this time to find out who you really are. I spent a year doing videos every week, 3 to 4 videos a week. January of 2021, I had a guy reach out to me who was a multimillionaire and said, I've been watching you for a year and I love everything you do. I want to fund your business.

And that happened.

He funded my business. I literally got the transact— the money to fund my business a day ago. So you never know who you are inspiring. You never know who you are watching, who's watching. Keep authentically being yourself. Keep authentically being shameless, bold, and consistent. And I don't know if any of that made sense, but I'm in a good mood right now. And I love all you guys. That's it. That's all I have to say.

Say about that.

Thank you, thank you.

It made perfect sense, and we're happy you're here in a good mood. That's key too, especially in the conversation of shame. I just want to shout Leo out.

Last—

yesterday we were texting and we were talking about like being excited to have this conversation, and I was like, I'm really excited. He was saying he was excited, and I was walking and I just paused and I was like, you know, you found your tribe. I text him back, I'm like, you know, you find— you found your tribe. When you're in a conversation about how excited you are to talk about shame. And so I just want to shout you all out and thank you again. Dr. Maury, I'm going to hand the floor over to you.

Absolutely. So I mean, because on the other side of shame is your freedom, right? I mean, that is the— so I began this year, I wrote an article called Mastering Rejection and the 5 Gifts of rejection. And I began the article with a quote from me, um, I choose me, therefore I'm already chosen. And a part of shame, at least in terms of my walk, has been the understanding where I accept me, where I choose me, and where I am just enough. And the distinction between what my narrative is for myself versus the narrative that others have given me. And when I have adopted— and of course, when you're a child, right, I'm always asking myself, who's speaking? Is it the 7-year-old Maury who just came from the Caribbean to this country? Is it the 15-year-old snarky teenager, rebellious teenager who's speaking? Is it my, you know, 32-year-old self who lost her mom? Like, who's talking, right? And who's giving you the narrative? Because in every season of that version of who I am, there's a different story where guilt or shame shows up, right? So depending upon who gets triggered for the moment— now I'm 46 years old, I can look back and say, oh, that's that snarky teenager. That's 15-year-old Maury, who was pushing towards just being seen and loving herself, right? Who— like, who— that's a— you're— so that's like the first step I would offer in terms of like tools that have worked to help me navigate this conversation, right? Who's talking? What's the narrative? And what are you saying within that narrative? Because it's the narrative that guides what you get to create, which is one of the gifts of mastering rejection. The 5th gift is about creation. And as human beings, that is our most powerful thing, right? We get to actually say— life and death is in the power of the tongue— you actually get to say who you are, whose you are, what you will and will not do, despite the narratives that have been imposed upon you, despite the experiences that you've navigated. And then you get to say to yourself, where am I living? Right? So am I living in the past? Am I present to this moment, or am I creating my future? So knowing where you are, in what time frame are you existing within your shame story, right? And are you— you know, I could— I know, and to Tamara's point, up to like this week, I had a whole conversation with myself around, Maury, why do you choose to be hidden? That's no shocking to some of you in this call, like where would Maury choose to hide? No, I hide. I hide. I have my reluctant superhero moments. And my reluctant superhero moments are totally anchored in the not enough, not worthy conversation, right? And the fierce independent woman who showed up for many, many years who had her cape. And I can tell you, at 42, I hung that shit up in the closet. Like, I'm burning it. Like, I don't want the cape anymore. But the cape worked until it didn't work. And that's why it's important for you to understand the narratives that are serving within your life. Because certain narratives, they worked for a season. It did, it did. It worked for a long time to be strong, independently fierce, all that great stuff. And then I became a mom and like, lean in for support, figure out. So like, at this point now I've learned, hey, Maury, you're a certified coach, create an accountability group. So I've got 17 awesome women who every morning or every evening and every day are getting a coaching message from me And we're in a process together, right? And I get to model vulnerability. And guess what they're doing? Telling the most impassioned testimonies and giving stories that is just bringing life to this group. So what— so who thought about suicide? Who's been sexually abused? That's out there in the group, right? And then, and then wait a minute, I'm now gonna— I'm gonna use tools like our co— the coaching messages have been everything, uh, to Oshima's point about consistency, discipline, oneness. Because you see, when you understand your oneness with, with like-minded communities, you can soar further. You know, if you want to get there fast, go alone. If you want to go there, if you want to go far, go together, right? So it's in the togetherness the transformation takes place, right? So you have people now sharing with me. So I've created my own account. I've come to a place where now it's like I could lean forward, do a trust fall back And the shame is not going to be there because I could talk about, I felt hidden today, and this is what triggered that. And then asking myself, why would you put yourself in this situation? Don't you love yourself enough? Haven't we gone over this? When you put your hand on your heart, Maury, and you say, I love you, say your name, Dr. Mauriciere Anick DiGiovio. Don't you love you, right? That you can get past that because the shame is just— it's, it's one of— it's like forgiveness. It's like it's in that category. It's that one thing 100 times, 1,000 ways that you get to address over and over and over again until it diminishes and diminishes until it's no longer a light. But it's usually because it's happened to you at certain key points along that journey, the 7-year-old, the 15-year-old, you know, the passing of a parent or some other life-changing moment that it haunts you. And that's why understanding the time frame that you're in— what time are you in? Are you, are you with us right now, right? Are you with— are you in this call right now, or are you being brought back through all the times that someone shamed you, or you agreed with the shaming that you were experiencing? And then flip it, right? We have the— there's a spiritual law, the law of the opposites, and I cannot tell you how much this one has helped me tremendously. The law of the opposite says that you can just flip it. Whatever the story is— I'm not loved, I am loved. I'm not worthy, I am worthy, right? Within the law of the opposites, you get to try on the opposite of what you've been experiencing. And if we're holding in low vibration— and the educator in me has seen enough Children decide to either attempt or take their lives. And dealing now within the adult coaching world, it's very real and it's very present. If the low vibration takes over your spirit long enough, you're going to believe that you don't need to be here. So applying something like the law of the opposites and making the declaration— because if life and death are in the power of the tongue, eventually if you keep on saying it over and over and over again, and then Breathe deep, because the deeper the breath, the longer the life. Right? You breathe deep so you fill your body with oxygen that brings life back to your body, your physicality. You're going to believe it eventually, and it's going to come to pass. And what was in your mind coming out of your tongue, it will manifest itself into the reality. And that's the kind of work that I do. Right? It's pushing myself. In support with others to actually create what you're looking for. Because that is actually the gift of the shame, right? Is that now, now I've acknowledged, I see, I've experienced it, it's there, got it. Do I stay here? And if the answer is no, is this vibration high enough? Am I tuning into the frequency of where I want to be? Am I in the past present, or can I create a future here? The good news is, is that, you know, that moment, that it just passed. So now you get to create the future. But it's all conscious choice. So if you don't spend time with yourself meditating, if you don't spend time in community and letting people know, hey, this is what's on my mind, and being expressive about it— because you're not alone within it, right? If we're looking at oneness as principle, every person faces some degree of pain that has paralyzed them, whether they are the generator of the pain or they are the recipient. Pain is— it's a part of the human experience, unfortunately, right? Buddhists would say that, right? Pain— you choose your pain, they would actually say. And if that's the case, let your pain be known so that you can think about what tool What will I do? Will I be re-narrating this time? Will I apply the law of opposites? Will I lean in for support? Will I create accountability partnerships? Will I find the mirror? Will I use I am? Will I flip it? Because there's so many choices that you can do to get you out of the making yourself wrong or making yourself insignificant because you're the only person on the planet who can do what you do. And that, that, that is the, the piece that people don't hear enough of, right? You're— you— we— as much as we are together and there's, there's a oneness, there's also a uniqueness. And riding that continuum of where you get to be unique versus where you get to collaborate and commune with others is actually what creates a better world. And we just have a lot of healing. And I really appreciate you doing this forum, Andrea, because there's so much healing that gets to take place. And I see it with our children as an educator, and it's disturbing because I know that it's fallen on young innocent children because the adults have not done what I'm discussing right now. Right? We have to do our work. If the African proverb, it takes a village to raise a child, if that is true, then the village must be well. So where we can, we have to figure out ways to influence people and to teach them these are the things that you actually can do. Because life, life's— I'm very clear about that. And people certainly be people, very clear about that. And when it happens, what questions do you get to ask yourself so that you end up in a higher frequency, operating at a higher place, so that the answer is, I choose me, therefore I'm already chosen? And you're not waiting for other people to validate who God has already planned you to be. And that's the mission in my heart, at least.

Yeah, thank you. So thank you to each of you because there were so many gems dropped. I want to revisit the definition of shame again. Shame is the intensely painful feeling or experience of the belief that we are flawed and therefore unworthy of love and belonging. So shame is the intensely painful feeling or experience of the belief that we are flawed and therefore unworthy of love and belonging. So the key word in this definition that I want to highlight is belief. I want to ask anybody, any of the guests, why do you think that that's the key word that I'm highlighting out of the entire definition? Come on, I know you smarty pants, somebody who wants to jump in. Why am I highlighting the word belief?

Well, because beliefs can be changed, right? And so if fundamentally a belief is a thing, is a belief, then and we interact with it as— but we often don't interact with it as though it's a belief, right? We interact with it as though it's true, right? And a belief inherently is not true, right? It is something based on our own experiences and perceptions. And so I think when we interact with it as a belief, then there's an ability to shift. But if we interact with it as though it is fundamentally true, then we look for things to prove it right. And we look for places and we look for evidence as to why this is our reality and why this— why our reality is true and right. But if we interact with it as though— if we actually interact with it as though it's a belief, then that can be shifted through tools and other experiences. And we can collect evidence for the contrary.

Yeah, yeah, thank you. Thank you, Tamara. Yeah, exactly. So it's not a fact. And when we're interacting with shame, because it's not a fact, we certainly get to change the narratives and our experiences. And I think that that's incredibly important to highlight in this particular conversation. Conversation, because for some of us, we hold and we do interact with our experience of shame as if it's a fact about ourselves.

Shame can transform into a lot of things when it's untreated and not acknowledged. It can turn into hate, resentment towards yourself and everybody else, right? So there is a thing where Shame can become this thing where you become judgmental of everybody else and everyone around you. So there may be people in your family who feel shame, but they never dealt with shame. So what they do is they offload all of that on you as a child or maybe in your adult years. The decisions that they didn't make in their lives, they'll project on you. So it can be a projection as well. If it's untreated. This is why when you feel shame, you have to be intelligent enough emotionally to understand when you're dealing with shame. Because like I said, guilt, in my opinion, is something that we experience—

it could—

we could experience it every day in small increments or large increments. But with shame, shame is really, really heavy. It can become really, really heavy when it's not acknowledged. And the best thing to do is every day I offload, you know, every day I offload. I've had like, today was a really crazy work day for me. And I'll tell you what I dealt with from a shame perspective. I did not pay enough attention to my children today. So I started to feel shame about that, like, damn, am I a good father? I'm a little ashamed right now. Am I, am I a good father, you know, and I started to activate old feelings in myself. And then my mother's feelings, my father's feelings. So it's like this generational shame now, you know, and if it's not dealt with, it'll become a thing. And I said to myself, no shit, I need to work today. I have to do things today. So let me make sure that they're busy. Let me stop right now. In this moment, acknowledge that I am experiencing shame right now from the past. Right, from the past. This has nothing to do— this is me questioning my fatherly abilities, etc., my dad's fatherly abilities and what he went through. Let me check myself right now and correct this shit. So there is a correction instantly that needs to happen. When you start feeling shame and/or guilt. And shame is weird because shame rests in— and this is old, but shame can rest in, I believe, your sacral. If you believe in energy points, it can rest in your sacral, which is directly tied to your sexual energy and the chakra that deals with relationships. And intimate relationships. So the first relationship that it affects is the relationship with yourself, right? So if you don't deal with that, it'll, it'll affect all the relationships that you have, but most importantly, the relationship that you have with yourself. So it'll suffocate you and cut you off from having any healthy relationships. And I had to really get to the core of it, no matter how much it hurt. And that was a culmination of, you know, going through that dark night of the soul, which was like, okay, I'm going to spend 1 year of my life truly analyzing what the fuck is wrong with me right now and things in my past that have happened to me. And it was so healthy for me to do that. So it got rid of the shame, it got rid of the guilt, it got rid of all that stuff and allowed me to truly love myself but who I am.

Thank you for that, Ocean. Um, yeah, no, I wanted to circle back to, um, to this concept of belief. You know, since time immemorial, man has been informed by story. And, uh, you know, the, the thing about belief is that it's, uh, it's part personal mythology and, you know, the collective cultural mythology. And so it can be both true and a lie at the same time. And I think it's important to consistently check in with our beliefs and the stories that we've shaped around them, especially since we're talking about childhood. And no one can be more fantastical than a child. And oftentimes we're traveling through the world with stories that are so so fantastically big that we can get lost in them. I know for a big portion of my life that that was a big part of my own experience. And so I think when it comes to belief, it's really important to understand that it can be true, but there's also a figment of our imagination that is also working in tandem with what we may perceive to be true. And it's really important to constantly challenge our beliefs because as the world— I mean, we're seeing it now. How many of our cultural, institutional, personal beliefs are being challenged right now? We're not going to look the same 10, 20 years from now. And people will still be struggling with beliefs that were handed to them who knows how many decades ago. You know, all of us are going to be thrust into this new era of constantly reshaping our beliefs because of how quickly everything is accelerating. And so I think, at least for me, you know, when I work with men, that's really the bulk of the work, is reshaping the personal and collective cultural mythologium that, you know, oftentimes can be too big to carry, and sometimes we buckle under the pressure of.

Thank you. Thank you, Leo. So, okay, so we're heading into the final 35 minutes. The time is flying, and I want to make sure that we, um, hit a couple of more points, and then I will ask the final question of the night of each panelist. And so we arrive at this, this point of now what, right? We talked about what shame is. And how it's different from guilt. We've talked about how it's a very individualized experience and it looks different for each of us. We talked about the fact that men and women experience shame in the body, that we feel it, the wave of it comes over us in a similar fashion, but what drives the experience is different. And so now we arrive at, now what? And so, um, there's good news and there's bad news. And so I'm going to hit you with the bad news first. There's no such thing as shameless or shame-resistant. There's no such thing. But the good news is we can develop shame resilience. And so I want to talk about shame resilience a little bit so that we can leave here with reasonable expectations of what our journey through shame looks like after this call. And so the goal of shame resiliency is to move us through shame to empathy. Shame cannot survive empathy. And so empathy is the ability to understand and share other people's feelings. And we don't have to have the same experiences as someone else to understand understands their feelings. So two powerful words that are often commonly talked about in the conversation of empathy, me too. And so when we share our story in safe places and we are able to be met with empathy and have people hold space for us and sometimes share me too, Shame cannot survive. And so in order to develop resiliency, we must learn to identify where we experience shame in our individual lives and what triggers, what triggers us. And so some common triggers for the experience of shame is appearance and body image. We talked about them in lots of different ways tonight. They've been hit on sexuality, family, motherhood, parenting, professional identity and work, mental and physical health, aging, religion, speaking out, surviving trauma. So those are some popular triggers that people experience shame. So resiliency involves speaking our truth and naming it shame. Not trying to dress it up in something else other than what it is, but really being willing to identify this is the area that I experience shame. And so I said this earlier, only you can choose in to this process in your own life, but it's really important to know that you don't have to go it alone. Um, and so share your truth in spaces with trusted individuals who can hold safe space for you, who can empathize as you explore shame. But tonight is really the beginning of an important conversation because while shameless doesn't exist, it's not a possibility for us, the, the speed at which we're able to recover and move through shame is really powerful when we talk about it and when we're clear about where we experience it. So I just wanted to put that on the table because I think that it's really important to leave this call not with the expectation that it's not going to happen, but with the reality that we'll be able to bounce back quicker. When I was doing the research for this particular event, I was reading about how oftentimes, because shame is considered the swamp lands and no one wants to go into it, There's a decision sometimes to stand on the sidelines, um, as opposed to navigating the swamp, but the experience on the sidelines is like a quicksand experience. And so as scary as it may seem to navigate the swampy waters, I would encourage you to recognize that standing in the quicksand is that much more torturous. And so, you know, if this conversation, like, leaves— aside from the gems that were dropped, if this conversation forwards you in any particular way, I hope that it encourages you to roll up your sleeves, choose, you know, people who you trust and are willing to unpack, you know, your experience and be real with, and choose into the swamp as opposed to sinking on the sidelines of your own life. So I just wanted to highlight that before we, we move into the final segment. So let's— we'll take this. It's probably going to bring us to the very end. And then I want to be able to open up the space to hear from the panelists and let them let you share where they can be found and all that great stuff.

Stuff.

But let's close tonight by focusing on love and belonging, because when we talked about shame and the definition of it, we talked about the fact that there's a belief that we're not worthy of love and belonging, but we are actually hardwired for love and belonging. And so I want to share with you— I came across something that I thought was incredibly powerful, um, again Brené Brown's work, and I just wanted to share this particular piece about how she defines true belonging. And so true belonging is the spiritual practice of believing in and belonging to yourself so deeply that you can share your most authentic self with the world and find sacredness in both being a part of something and standing alone in in the wilderness. So I'm going to just read it again. True belonging is the spiritual practice of believing in and belonging to yourself so deeply that you can share your most authentic self with the world and find sacredness in both being a part of something and standing alone in the wilderness. True belonging doesn't require you to change who you are. It requires you to be who you are. So as we head into the final portion, final segment, I thought that it would be great to close out the night by focusing on love and true belonging, since love is one of the greatest acts of vulnerability, and we are in the V Spot after all. So for this final segment, a request is being made of each of the panelists. It's not a question, rather a request to recite a vow to yourself aloud, one that calls you forth to share your most authentic self with the world in new ways as a direct result of you making this promise here and now. So I'm going to say it again. Recite a vow to yourself aloud, one that calls you forth to share your most authentic self with the world in new ways as a direct result of making this promise here and now. Say whatever you need to hear in this moment. You can go wherever you feel guided to go. Sing, dance, poetry, spoken word, close your eyes, say whatever vow to yourself. Go wherever you feel guided. And the most important part of this is know that there's no way to mess up a vow. So in this particular instance, I'm not going to ask anyone specific to begin. I'll just open it up to the 4 of you. And ask whoever wants to jump in, in this act of display of vulnerability, recite a vow to yourself aloud that calls you forth to share your most authentic self with the world in new ways as a direct result of making this promise here and now.

And, you know, as I'm conjuring this right now. You know, I'm definitely a feeling person. In that moment, and what my— how I'm bringing this together is I heard somebody that I have a lot of respect for say, he said, when you say I am, you are, you are saying you are God, you are godlike, right? And not to get religious. But my vow to myself is saying, "I am." And I want to live in the image of God. And to me, that's living within the truthfulness of myself. So what I would say to myself, if you ask me, "I am." That's it. I am. I am whatever I want to be. I am. And I will leave it at that. I am.

Thank you.

I am—

I can jump in. Um, yeah, so I, uh, my vow, my personal vow is to, um, continue to expand, uh, my, my love of self, to continue to, um forgive myself, value myself, um, um, to continue, uh, to push myself to be shame resistant. And learning things tonight, uh, you can't be completely shameless, um, but to be, uh, shame resistant so that I can invite other people to, you know, cross the water to the other side. They're, you know, the thing about swamps is that they look scary, but they're also bodies of water, right? And so there's the opportunity to wash ourselves clean when we get to the other side. And inside of that, my vow is to reintroduce in some way, shape, or form collectively the concept that there's actually joy in grief. We've lost the ability to grieve together. And in that, you know, we're all carrying unnecessary pain that we'd be able to unload, you know, collectively. So for me, that's my vow in this next chapter of my life is to invite people into spaces where there's the possibility to testify and be witness to testimony in a way where we're not just being present to the words, but that we're actually exorcising those emotions out of our bodies. Because I believe that There's a 4-step process to making ourselves new. There's the process of angering, grieving, venting, and re-narrating. And, you know, I think I've heard the ladies, Tamara and Dr. Mori, and obviously the great work that Oshun does and what it is that you're creating here. What's missing is community. You know, and what's beautiful about the time that we're living in is at this, at this place of technology is that there's so many different ways that community can look like. So I'm about to exhaust myself continuously and showing up to these conversations and prompting these conversations so that, you know, we, we can spread that, that message and allow people to heal, not separately, but in spaces where they know that they're going to be helped.

Thank you, Leo.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I'll go. Dr. Mauricier Anick Dikovaya, how are you, sis? Tonight you vow to play big. To not allow yourself to be hidden, to not allow yourself to be shamed, to allow yourself to be shame resilient. That's a new word. Add that to the vocabulary. You are empowered. You're perfectly and wonderfully made. Remember, I am that I am. And tonight you get to claim that in your name, Dr. Marici Araniti Govaya, is a woman who's waiting to be seen. Your audience awaits. Your supporters are there to catch you when you fall, and you have everything that you need to live a maxed-out life. Tonight on the V Spot, you claim your spot from this moment forward. Ashe.

I love it. I got the goosebumps. You all can't see.

Lovely.

Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you for that opportunity.

Beautiful.

Um, I'd like to— my vow— I'd like to make a vow to my ancestors to promise to always carry my grandmother in my heart and carry not her shame or her heartache, but to carry her blessings, right? To carry the love that I have not only been told, but that I have been shown. To connect with everything that has come before me, not from a place of what I shouldn't do, but what I could do, um, to be everything that my ancestors were and everything that they prayed for, and to carry the spirit of everyone that will come after me in my soul in such a way that it creates healing, right, and creates a world that I can be proud of, right, and that they can be proud to be a part of, right, and to create a community that honors what has come before them, right, and is committed to leaving the world better than we found it.

Beautiful. I'm going to encourage everybody to take a deep breath in and exhale. Take another deep breath in and exhale. And take one more deep breath in, taking in all the love you can in this moment. And exhale with a big sigh.

Ah, wow.

Beautiful, powerful, epic, special, inspiring, motivational, um, courageous, you know, real. All four of you are— you embody vulnerability in such a way, and I started by saying this, and I want to circle back to say it now. You embody vulnerability and courageous and conscious conversation in such a way that every space that you are in is left better. And so I'm so certain and so clear that the vows that you made here tonight are written in the stars. Done deals. And so thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. I appreciate you, I respect you, I'm grateful for you, I love you, the four of you.

Thank you, Andrea, for creating a beautiful space for people to come together and create connection during a time when connection is needed. I think what the work that you're doing is so important, right? And it seems like you find the perfect group of people to speak to the perfect group of people at the perfect time. So thank you for doing this. Thank you for being a commitment to it. Thank you for looking to contribute to others at a time, especially during this time when it's been really challenging. So thank you. Thank you.

Thank you for spending quality time with me here in the V Spot. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, write a review, and tell a friend to tell a friend to meet us in the V Spot. To stay connected and in the loop about all special events, join the email list at www.intentionalhealingandwellness.com. You can also join the Intentional Healing and Wellness community on Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn. I'll catch you soon.