Inside Secrets Of The Pope's Swiss Guard | The Catholic Talk Show

Hey, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Catholic Talk Show. Today we're going to be interviewing our first Swiss Guard.

That's right. We're lucky enough to be joined by Andreas Vidmer. And we're going to get an insider's look at the life of the Pontifical Swiss Guard, the personal security force of the Pope.

The motto of the Swiss Guard, fiercely and faithfully. Let's begin.

All right. It's great to be back for another episode. I, I got a lot of notes from listeners with a lot of questions that are really awesome. So I'm, I'm really excited to learn more about the Swiss Guard. And Andreas, you're a good friend and the work that you're doing at Catholic University. Hopefully we'll be able to share some of that today. But wel, welcome to our talk show.

Thank you. Thanks for having me, Ryan.

I know I'm most interested. Are you guys packing heat or what? I think that's the big question on the streets of Rome. Does the Swiss Guard actually pack heat?

Yeah, I think we're gonna have an opportunity to get into exactly the nature of the Swiss Guard, what their training is, what their weaponry is, what their uniforms are all about. These elaborate uniforms, how practical those are for hand to hand combat in case the Saracens decide to invade Rome again or if Charles V. So let's, you know, we're going to get a chance to look at this really unique vocation in life. I mean, how many people get to say that they're a member of an elite crack military force, one of the oldest military forces in continuous operation in the world that serves and protects the Pontiff, the Pope of Rome? I mean, this is a really unique opportunity and we're really happy to be able to bring this to our viewers, to our subscribers, and get you these kind of cool insider looks. And if you like what we do and you're interested in episodes like this, Father Rich, why don't you tell them how they can subscribe and how they can get more. Before we get started, make sure you.

Hit us up on social media, Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. @ CatholicTalkShow, hit the subscribe button on this YouTube channel if you're viewing and make sure you click the bell so every time we produce a video or a new show, it will populate in your feed and you won't miss any of this amazing content. Andreas, you know, I've been to the museum in Rome. I've looked up, you know, different websites describing the history of the Swiss Guard. But my brother it is so good to have an insider scoop on the Swiss Guard and to have your testimony of faith, especially as the pastor of St. John Paul II here in the Diocese of St. Augustine. I know your boss was a saint, which is incredible to think about.

Not many people can say that they worked for a saint and. And I'm blessed to be able to say that. Amazing man.

So how did yours. How did this all come about? When you were being raised as a child, was this a vocation that was somewhat present to a young boy growing up? How did you eventually end up in this vocation?

You know, Ryan, I wish I could tell you that this was my childhood dream and that I was this fervent Catholic who felt that this was like the fulfillment of all desires. And I would be lying to you. I basically didn't know anything about the Swiss Guards. I grew up in a small village, 400 people up in the mountains in Switzerland. I was, I mean, I'm the youngest of six kids, grew up in a Catholic family. My parents are very Catholic and were. And you know, sent us to Mass. So we went to mass on Sundays and so on. But, you know, the catechesis, it wasn't the best. But I wasn't, you know, I wasn't really believe. I wasn't really a believer. I grew up very, very much influenced by the secular world. And I also was horrible at school. The only thing, as the youngest of four boys I could do was fight. And because I had to fight my older brothers all the time and I was outside all the time, I just excel. That's the only thing I excelled at. And so in Switzerland we have a militia and they start to watch you in school from age 12 and all. Like, there's only private school. And so all my physical ed and everything in school is watched by the military. And they very early on liked what I did and, you know, and I got into all kinds of pre military stuff and that once I got into the military, that was the one thing in life I was good at. And I got back home on a break and talked to one of my buddies back from the village and he said, guess what I am? I said, what? I'm a bodyguard. And I'm like, you mean, you know, with the gun and the thing in here? And he's like, yeah, man. And he's like. And I was asking, they're paying you for that? And he says, yeah, totally. I said, that's what I'm gonna do. Like, where do I stand in line for that? And he says, he gave me an address, a postal address back then and said, just send, send to these guys. And I was like sending them the thing and said, this is what I want to do. And. Yeah, man. So the first time I applied, I wasn't. We never really even talked about who you would protect because. So I signed up for the Swiss Guards for all the wrong reasons. But there was somebody who had greater oversight than me.

Yeah. That's amazing. That is really amazing. Yeah, I mean. And then, you know, we'll get into some of your story later, how you excelled in business and now you're generously offering that to our young Catholic men and women who are coming into Catholic university. But so you're into the Swiss Guard? It's kind of like a matter of fact. Like did you have to go to training or anything like that? Or was it just like, hey watch this guy, he's the Pope.

No, it's actually pretty cool. So. So first of all, I was in the military and they like you to advance a bit. Like the Smith's military is a militia. So you can't just start to go to office, to school. Everybody starts in the mud, right? Crawling. And so then they watch who's good and that's who advances. Right. So this is. No, so. And I was, you know, I was killing it. So I was being advanced and they loved that. And then the guards, you also have to see that Switzerland and the Swiss Guards or the Vatican, at my time they didn't even have diplomatic relations. So Switzerland is a Protestant country. So they just tolerate us doing this. But the Swiss army isn't cooperating actively with the Vatican or anything like that. There's no connection except the military records are public. And so anybody can go to Switzerland and see how I did in the military. And so do the Swiss Guards. And so they like to see this record and they like to choose if you apply. They like to look at your record and choose people who made a bit of a career in the military. So I made it to officer, non commissioned officer. I just didn't go back to finish it. But I got my summons to be there in November. And then you will go into a two month training. It's a little bit different now, but back then all that training happened in all around the Vatican and they built on what they knew I had. So, you know, you don't have to teach me how to use a weapon, you don't have to teach me close hand combat like in general, but you do have to teach me the theory of how to Protect one person and to protect them in a way that you. And how should I say, to inflict the least amount of damage to everybody around if you do have to act right and sort of, I would say considerate protection is what I would call this. And then of course, you have to. One of the key things they have to train you is in people recognition, knowing who is who and who belongs where. And then you see, most of that is really pattern recognition. You. And then the close combat is also something that you just teach every week, a couple of times when you're there. But in the beginning it's of course a bit increased.

So you're from this little village in Switzerland. Why Switzerland? Why not Croatia? Why not Slovenia? Why not Andorra? Why specifically, what is the origin of the Pope's bodyguards, the Pontifical Swiss Guard coming from Switzerland? Specifically? That's a pretty crazy thing that I don't think a lot of people know.

Think about it. If you were to Pope, wouldn't you want to cool. You want to choose the coolest guys on earth if you're a Swiss?

Look, look, if I was the Pope, I would want a bunch of 6 foot 8 mountain men coming down and cracking heads and wielding halberds. For me, absolutely. I mean, it makes perfect sense. But I'm begging the question, sir, for our audience, so they can get the perspective.

I like to reply that of course they're the most handsome and that's why you were hired. The history is actually a very utilitarian history. And that is in those days, Switzerland is a small country. And it actually has to do with the hereditary law that you have farms with 10, 15, 20 kids. I had a grandmother who was one of 22 kids. If you have a farm like this and you have to split and everybody's a farmer, you split that farm 22 times for a couple of generations. And everybody gets a goat. And they can do farming on a postage stamp. So what they do is they say the oldest male gets the whole farm, everybody leave. So you have these kids who grow up, boys grow up fed on a farm, strong and everything. And then they have to leave and either become their brother's servant on the farm or go and have no work. So in the Middle Ages, what started is that they would say, well, let's go to war. If I work for a king, I can keep the spoils. And then either I die or come back rich. And the majority of Swiss young guys would start to do this. And it became a whole trade. And it brought, of course, wealth into Switzerland. And so on. And so the Pope who had the Papal States at the time, kept losing battles and said, like, what's going on? What's this new secret weapon they have? And they said, well, these are these Swiss boys who don't run around. They run around like farmers. They use sheer force, have no fear, because they have nothing to lose. And they just wreak havoc on our military. And so he says, I need some of those. It was Julius ii. His nickname was the Terrible, but also.

The Warrior Pope too.

Yeah, Giuliano Della. You know, look, he's a hero in my book. And so he said, look, I need some of these. And he sent an emissary to Lucerne, Switzerland, my state, and said, bring me 400 of these men. And they cobbled together this group and it took a while to cross the big mountain in Switzerland, the Alps, and then they lost people on the way. I think they showed up with like 250 or 300 men eventually in early January of 1506. And the first thing it is, he put them into. He went to war with them and he put them into action. I think he attacked Venice with them and was duly impressed. And he pretty immediately decided, because also, of course, his life was always a bit on the threat. Immediately decided, these people are the ones who are going to be around me. And that has never changed since.

You've got. You got quite a lineage there. So I guess people, I'm. I'm gonna ask a couple questions that were given to us by our Patreons. If you're thinking about becoming a patron, go to catholictalkshow.com forward/patreon. We get. Give you all sorts of, like, swag and stuff like that. Well, these guys were asking questions. I thought they were really good. Number one, are you always wearing that? Is there anything? Because you stick out, right? I mean, like, if you're going to be a bodyguard, right. A lot of bodyguards like to kind of mix in and look and tell you guys wear some pretty amazing attire. We should say a uniform, right? It does stick out. You're very much represented. Is there any time where you guys are doing, like, you know, okay, the Pope's gonna be here, we're gonna check this path out. We gotta look at these people. We don't want them knowing that we're looking at them. Is there any sign where you guys are doing that? Always wearing those uniforms.

So I'll let you know. Secret.

Yes.

My excitement.

Yeah. Well, the uniform is usually only worn by young people, young guards.

Okay.

And the actual Work is done not in the uniform. So when you see guys in suits around the Pope, then that is a good chance those are Swiss Guards.

Okay. And is there a height requirement because all of them are massive human beings.

Yes, there is a height requirement. It's like 1 meter 70 or 80. See, I of course didn't have to worry about that.

Five foot eight for all of us Americans.

So if you're six foot nine, height requirements are relative. So I'm, I just never had to worry about it. So. And, but they're also a little flexible because you see when you, when you run a core like this, there's all kinds of talents you need and the Swiss Guards get the talents they need. And so they're like, with hike, they're not going to stick to a super rigid rule if you have what they want. But yes, but there is a height limit, Height minimum. And then of course, like on any team, you put the most imposing guys in the front line and so they, you know, that was great for me because I was certainly very exposed and I loved it.

What are some of the talents that you were talking about? Like there's a, you know, there's such a need for technology now and you know, basically, you know, what we now face in the modern world, from the warrior Pope to present day, you know, investigation and security has to like amp up to such incredible heights now. So what are some of the talents and what's some of the training that you go through in a modern day setting of being a Swiss Guard?

So you have to see there's a long history. The Pope used to have whole armies and things like that. And only after Vatican II was this all simplified and it was simplified down to keeping the Swiss Guards who protect the Pope. So we are not the police force of the Vatican. They kept a police force. It was not like it used to be with the noble guards and all that. They keep this police force and then the Swiss Guards have only job is the security of the Holy Father and where he lives. So that's why you don't see Swiss Guards at every entrance of the Vatican and so on. And that police force that is there, they're also doing, they manage all the cameras and all of that kind of stuff. And they do like what a police force does and then think of us as like the Secret Service. And then we actually do the protection of the President or in this case the Pope. And there you need all kinds of talents. We work a lot in combination with other people, including Italy, because it's of course, surrounded by Italy. And so when you're doing about the preemptive kind of stuff, like watching people, if you approach the Vatican, I think people know you're approaching long before you see the Vatican. And that is of course, not the Swiss Guards, that's Italy, who watches all that. And I think that's true in dc. If anybody thinks they're walking around DC and nobody's watching them, think again. That's just something of the time now. But I want to tell you that the basics of personal protection is always the same thing. And that involves your body and that involves your pattern recognition. And to be there without being an oppressive presence. What we were always taught is to say, give the Pope the highest security possible while still allowing him to exercise his ministry. Because that is where we put his ministry first and everything's everything second. If you would want to keep the Holy Father 100% secure, you would never let him drive around St. Peter's Square, you'd never let him go in, dive into crowds. I mean, we go with him and everything. But that's the Pope. The Pope. The term Pope is a ministerial term. If you take ministry away from him, he's not the Pope anymore. And so we adapt to that. And that is the highest level of education, of training you need of how to roll with that. And that is physical.

So, you know, we know that there's the ceremonial uniform, right? The blue, red and yellow, the Medici one. Then there's also the standard blue uniform. Correct. And then you probably have your, like you said, you're more senior members wearing black suits. Are you looking like a secret service? So I imagine that in a regular black, probably very smart European style two button suit, it's pretty hard to hide a halberd, right? I mean, that is the weapon of the Swiss Guard. And for anyone who's not familiar with that, we'll put a picture up here right now. But it's really essentially a very long axe with a pike on the end of it. It's a very intimidating weapon, but I doubt that those really fit on the holster. So what kind of weaponry are the modern Swiss Guard using? What kind of guns, what kind of technology? What really is, you know, how do they measure up against maybe the Secret Service or other familiar guards in other countries?

So it's to sit. It's the equivalent what the halberd used to be. The halberd used to be a multi purpose tool. On the one hand you could pull people off the horse with it, on the other one you could stab them on the other one, it has a knife on it. I mean, it's a super useful, brilliant weapon. And it was. Well, the Swiss were well known to design them and use them very well. So you can adapt to that of what we need and use today. You can assume that the Swiss Guards have the most modern equipment that you can think of. Let me caution you on that with one overall comment, and that is you don't want to protect the Pope. Exactly. Or to react to anything happening around the Pope exactly the way you would maybe for another head of state. And even there, I don't know how you say this in English, but you have to. There's in German, they, they talk about Das Findbuild, the picture of the enemy, of saying, who is it that is attacking you? And then you have to think about how do you react to that threat. Right. And if one person, like Pope John Paul II was shot on May 14 in 81 by one person on St. Peter's Square, and there were probably 100,000 people on that square, now, the reaction to that isn't that you take out a Uzi and start to shoot in the general direction of where the shot came from, because that would create a lot of damage. What you do is to stand, to be strategic and apprehend or silence that one threat. That is not something you do indiscriminately with whatever the most powerful weapon is, but that is something again, that you have to use your body and your mind. And so that's the first thing that I would caution is to say usually the most powerful physical weapon isn't what's best used to appropriately respond to that.

You know, just curious. I just gave to my parish, you know, 40th anniversary prayer cards with a third class relic touched to the blood that was shed by St. John Paul II on the feast of Our lady of Fatima on 13th May, 1981. I'm curious, were you a Swiss Guard at that time? And if you were, what was that experience like? If you weren't, what was that? Because that has to be a part of the training and the experience. And could you kind of elaborate a little bit more about that?

My sergeant was the guy who apprehended Ali Okca. We called him the Christmas Tree because his uniform, it was slightly lopsided because he had like every order and every medal you could that is available to humanity. He had, because he did apprehend him, even though he kept pushing that back and saying, I did not catch Ali Oka. I saved his life. Because the idiot shot the Pope in the middle of 30 nuns. And when I came, he was on the floor, and I basically saved him.

Okay, you gotta watch out for those nuns.

Yeah. But he apprehended him. And we, of course, analyzed this a hundred different ways in a million different ways. And that was, of course, one of our key examples of how to react and how to. But you see, that is also something that happens. Of course, it's the greatest threat, and it's there, and it's sort of the nuclear option, much more common. And that's the second part to my answer to you, Ryan. Is Italy the real threat to the Pope on a daily basis, many times a day, is that Italy doesn't have any mental institutions. And that means. And it's a very humane approach, and it's actually a very good idea. It spreads. You know, they don't want to create these asylums and these ghettos of sick or old or whatever. And so a lot of crazy people roam the streets of Rome. And when you have people who are severely mentally unstable, something like a religious authority figure attracts some like, well, you've been to Rome. St. Peter's is just full of people like that. And that is the daily threat that somebody who's actually ill is doing something that is not in the best interest of the Pope or them or the people around them. And that is the most special training a Swiss Guard gets is how do you defuse a threat. You don't want to go and beat the heck out of a sick guy, like a guy who's ill. At the same time, you need to keep him safe to himself and everybody else. That is where your. Your hand to hand combat. It sounds wrong, hand to hand combat, but that is where your physical authority needs to come in and say, how do you eliminate this threat without eliminating the person who's the threat? You see what I mean? You don't do this with a gun.

And for anyone who's not watching or you can't really tell because Andreas is sitting down, but I've met him, and he is a physically intimidating human being. I mean, he's 6, 9, and I have really big hands, like ginormous hands. I shook his hand, and it felt like my hand was being caught by a catcher's man. I mean, it was absurd. Like, this is the kind of guy you want protecting the Pope. Trust me.

And I think this is a great segue into, obviously, you were around a saint and you witnessed his life. He was also a Pope. He made a profound impact on your Faith. We talked a little bit about your faith prior to going into this vocation. I'm really kind of curious how being around a saint, what was that like? How being around insane impacted you. Was it him that impacted you?

Is it?

And. And then how you've carried that through your life. Today, we can just talk a little bit about your story after the guard. I'm sure you can still kick some butt, but, you know, in your older age, it gets a little, you know, they. They kind of send you on your way. You're like, all right, you're getting too old. You went back to the farm system. So I. I think if we could talk about that, that'd be great. I'm really, really interested in that.

Yeah. First of all, so this. This all flows into this. Of this. I'm, like, strong. I want to do things, and if somebody moves wrong, I'm all over you like white on rice, right? And so, of course, I go in trying to do that. He himself will pull you back and say, this is not what it's about. He once told me that in German, that I'm. You know, what you call you're my business card, meaning don't you know, you're my emissary? Like, don't go beat the heck out of people. Like, you represent me. And let's work this together. What message are we sending if the first person moves wrong and you go jump on them? And then he started to talk about love. And in Italian, there is this saying that when you love somebody else, you know, you wouldn't say, ti amo, I love you, because that would be more intimate. But in general, in English, you would probably call it goodwill. In Italian, you say tivoglio beneath, and he would always say the tivoli obene, I want your good. And he says, think about it. What's the good do you want for this person? And then act according to that. Act according to that good you want for them. And this was like. To me, it's like, what are you talking about? And he would. He noticed. In essence, he noticed that, of course, whenever you see a tough guy like this, they're just covering up the inner insecurities and the worst they get, which I was the worst, the more insecure they are inside. And I was just totally not knowing what's up or down. And I covered everything up with muscle and aggression, and he saw right through that. And he. He. We encountered each other when. Well, he encountered me when I was totally down, and I sort of. I actually cried. And he would he literally embraced me and said that everything was going to be good and that he was praying for me. And it just. At that moment, something changed. And I think it may have been, you know, the efficacy of his prayer that suddenly I looked at him in a different light. And at first I attached it to him and said, whatever this guy has is what I want. And so he became sort of my idol and he noticed and he would say, no, no, you don't want me. You want who I have. And he would deflect it and say, you want Jesus, and I can help you with this. And he taught me how to pray.

Who is protecting who?

I'm getting goosebumps telling you this.

I have too.

Me too. Because this was such. And it's the Tivoglio Bene. And he saw me and he says, I want your good. You know, you may. And you may work for me or with me and everything, but ultimately I want your salvation. And what do I have to do or what can I do to help you towards this, to find it and to help you towards it? And so he would say, no, you don't want. You know, you like what I have, not. Not who I am. And so he deflected me over to Christ and said, look, start to pray. This is my favorite prayer. He gave me a rosary and. And then he, you know, every conversation with him, every time we met, the conversation kept going where it was before. Eventually he met my parents, and it's just. It was just a beautiful, beautiful. And he, you know, when your parents, you walk up with your parents to the Pope, and the Pope goes, hey, Andreas, my favorite card. And he goes to the mother, to my mom, he's like, you must be his mom. He tells me such great things of you. I'm sorry. You should be so proud of your son. My mother couldn't. The whole audience, she never said that word because he was like crying so much, and it was just beautiful. And then eventually he saw that I. First of all, I'm saying, okay, if God exists, I'm going to be a priest. And he was like, piano, piano. Like, let's. Why don't you just. You found God, be with him. Like, be at Jesus feet. Like, just enjoy the radiance, like. And he says, remain in prayer. Like, why don't you not tell God? What? Like, let's just. And then he. And then I finally said, okay, I gotta go. Because then I met my wife Michelle, who was an American exchange student there. And I of course, told him about that. And he was, He Was all good with that, except I then said, well, I have to leave. And he says, why do you have to leave? Like I'm not treating you well? I said, no, no, you're treating me well. It's just I'm not getting any younger, you know, he had a field day with that, well, you're not getting any younger. I left and he blessed me and he said, you found Jesus here, now go bring Jesus wherever you go.

Oh, wow.

And I followed Michelle here to the United States and went to college with 22 years old and by the grace of God, met some entrepreneurs, some technology people who, through mit, I didn't go to mit, but they were at MIT and fell in with a series of software startups that just changed my life, like high flying software startups. And I ended up becoming a leader in the field and leading starting companies and so on. And I actually would go back for Michel's 30th birthday. We went back and had an audience with him and he reminded me to continue to bring Jesus to where now he was, into the boardroom. And it took me a long time to figure that out. How do you bring this Tivolio Bene, the essence of Christianity into the, into business? But that is what I'm trying to teach today at cua.

How did you find how to do that? I mean, like, you know, obviously bringing Jesus to the world isn't something we can do successfully every day and just usually like circumstances, events, people, you know, all these things kind of shape how we do it. And so how did you find, you know, your groove there in terms of that and tell us about the work that you're doing now with our young.

Aspect, there's two things he would, he would say this devolio Bene and the other thing he would always say is you get to decide. And so he, you know, John Paul never told me what to do in that sense of saying, oh, you should do more this. He never even told me, pray, this money. He would always say, I do this for you. And then. And if you ask him a question, he would tell you what he likes or did. And so this phrase of you get to decide, it is in a way how God approaches us with free will to say, you get to decide. And it's like in the beginning of our life, God gives us this great freedom, which is crazy because the first thing we're going to do is turn around and hurt him with it. But he stays with and says, you get to decide. Actually the economy, the business world, the free economy, capitalism, in a way is like that, that you get to decide. And, you know, business can be the greatest force for good you can ever think of. One of the things that John Paul taught me is how in Genesis, the story of Genesis shows us that we're made in the image of the Creator and that the Creator looks nothing like us, but we have the attributes. We are in the image and likeness of the Creator without attributes. And one of those attributes is that we are creators. On the one hand, we're creators of other human beings, which is unique. And it's so unique, it's a sacrament. But we're also creators in that this stewardship mandate. God said, hey, I created all this nice creation, everything. You continue to work. And we call that work, that we can now think of something and say.

Hey, I'll put this together.

And then it suddenly has a new, a new use or something. And we call that business entrepreneurship, that we participate in God's creativity. Isn't that this blows your mind. And in it we have the freedom to say, are you going to create goods that are truly good and are you going to provide services that truly serve or not? And the free market, in a sense, gives us this opportunity and we can come into this business world. And the core business sentence is, may I help you? How may I help? Is the most core business sentence. Imagine how Christian of a sentence that is this other directedness and say, how may I help you? And the help, of course, which goes back to the truly good, is if you do this out of love, then you will produce goods that allow people and further people on the path to heaven. And you provide services that allow people and further people on the path to heaven. And that would be called good business. And that is what the true calling I call my class, the true vocation of business is.

Now, I would say that most people listening would not consider modern business practices to be good stewardship, to be a vocation that is something holy or even in alignment with Catholic principles and social justice teaching. But you're really trying to do something different there by teaching that disciplined entrepreneurship. And you're a professor at the Bush School of the Catholic University of America. So for anybody who's out there who has an interest in business or wants to advance their career, would you tell them a little bit more about how they can potentially become a student there and how they can learn these kinds of ethical approaches towards business?

So I believe in lifelong learning, so I don't want to limit it to the students, but of course, we're university and At Cua Edu, you can go on, look for the business school. And we have lots of opportunities and we have a four year college, we have a graduate degree and so on. And I participate in all of this with this idea of business as a force for good. And my point is always the vocation of business, that business is a path to holiness, but it needs our cooperation. Beyond that, I'm very interested to look out into the world of helping people like I was when I'm in business myself. It's education doesn't stop. It's like confirmation. Like doesn't stop when you're confirmed. Your education in Catholicism and your growth in faith, the same with your general education. It's not done when you're done with college. So one of the things we regularly have is these lunch and learns. And now with zoom, it's very easy. There's one coming up on May 18, how to steward a company in trouble. I bring in somebody who really knows what they're talking about, have an opinion, and then only let them talk for like a half an hour or 20 minutes on their framework or what they have to say and then leave 45 minutes for everybody on the call to pepper the person with questions for my business, not in theory, but business people or managers or employees, to say here's my question on this and to make this super interactive so that it becomes a learning opportunity not just for the people on the call, but also for us. And so those are the two kinds of we try to engage all Catholic business people and entrepreneurs and we try to teach specifically students who want to learn principled entrepreneurship or business.

It's very evident that Tivoli Obene is that impacted you so deeply. And to see how that's processing in your life in a form of ministry and mission and becoming holy through entrepreneurship is an inspiration. And you look at the works of John Paul ii, love and responsibility, you see one of my favorite documents that I always return to, Laborum exorcisms and the dignity of human labor. And that we participate with God in creation and that we can be creative in that imago dei. I just want to share a little quote because I do find a real deep resonance with what you're saying, with what St. John Paul II said. There's yet another aspect of human work, an essential dimension of it, that is profoundly imbued with the spirituality based on the Gospel. All work, whether manual or intellectual, is inevitably linked with toil. The book of Genesis expresses it in a truly penetrating manner. The original blessing of work contained in the very mystery of creation and connected with man's elevation as the image of God. It's what is truly human, the imago dei, the image of God in whom we were created, that is most seen in our labor, in our toil. And it should always be directed toward the other for the good of them, just in and of themselves, you see.

And I want to. And Ryan, to your point of saying, sometimes people think, well, this is something new and that I wouldn't be for profit companies and everything. Let me say two things. One thing, I'm actually questioning nonprofit companies because God has never created anything that isn't profitable and neither should you. That's just my principle. It's okay, we can go into the details and at the end of the day, I don't really mind if you have a non profit company. I'm just saying unless it's a charity, you have a responsibility to invest yourself to produce more. And that's a call to creativity, to make more with less. Then we have to say the more also pertains to what happens to us when we work. There is a right to work and there is an obligation to work. That's social teaching. But the social teaching, some people who go around with social justice thing, they only focus on one side of the thing. But we have to be holistic and look at both sides. The reason why there is a right to work and an obligation to work is because when we work, we don't just make more, we become more. Work is one of the paths of fully flourishing as a human being. I don't mean just paid work like somebody who takes care of the elderly or children or. It is a work and this is such an essential part of humanity that no other animal has it. So it's a mark of our being made in the image and likeness of God. And therefore we have a right and an obligation to do so.

Yeah, and that's the criticism of capitalism. And I love Archbishop Venerable Fulton Sheen. He said, communism wants the cross without Christ, capitalism wants Christ without the cross. And it's such a wonderful critique that you kind of meditate on for a while and kind of draw things from. And the sense of capitalism in the purest sense and the sense of entrepreneurship is that the work is generating profitability for the advancement of human society and civilization and the benefits that are directed toward others, where it becomes stagnated is in human greed and drawing it to oneself as the primary object. And what you're presenting in the form of profitability is something that is rooted more in the direction of others over self. And that's definitely true.

That is true, father. But keep in mind that greed is a universal, is equally distributed. So if you are greedy and you are in a controlled environment, it's even worse than in a free market. Because in a free market at least I can walk away and not buy from you anymore. And then there goes your greed. But if you're greedy and you're in a closed market, like in a government controlled market or even with the guilds and everything, and you're greedy, the potential for abuse is way greater. And so we have to be careful in defining capitalism. I don't like the word capitalism because it was coined by its enemy, like by its greatest critic, by Karl Marx. And just like when John Paul was asked, he says, well, it depends what you mean. With capitalism, I like to term the market economy or the free market economy, that whenever two people can freely choose to do business with each other and you don't have to buy this if you don't want to, and I don't have to sell it to you if I don't want to, and we create that freedom, then you start to add value. And whenever you add value, something people are not aware of, there's not a fixed amount of money in the world. Money is created every time where somebody pays more for something than it costs to make it. That's new money. Bill Gates didn't steal his money. He created it, in a sense by creating more value than there was before. And for us to understand is we need to understand the free market economy, that we have a choice, we can choose again. It's like you get to decide. I see a huge parallel in Christian teaching and the free market in that it really requires the tivoglio Bene and see Tivoli, I want your good. It includes me and you, but includes my will. I'm not forced to. I'm also not forced to love God, right? Just I'm not forced to love you as a neighbor, but I'm invited to. And in a sense, sometimes we want to do away with the temptation and go all the way over to throw the baby out with the bathwater. And that's sort of what I'm seeing. But that's what I hear when I hear people saying, well, we shouldn't have a free market anymore and we should have the government should control the economy and so on. That's dangerous territory. Right.

I definitely think that the free market approach is absolutely in principle the very best and in practice the least worst that's a good way and you know, having more, you know, here my boy Chesterton getting more towards, you know, distributism and having a more widely owned and more local solutions and you know, shop local, buy mom and pop stuff. That kind of stuff is good for free market because it rebalances creativity and ownership to more people without it being. But that has to be freely chosen. People have to choose to do that. They can't just government mandated.

The essence of prosperity, the lifeblood of prosperity is social mobility. And we need to be able to have this mobility of somebody. I came to America with nothing, I mean nothing. I had my education and my faith and all that. So more than others. But I came to America without any wealth and without knowing really anybody. And you can still make it in America. And I think this is something that we need to maintain. Father, if you would say, well what's your criticism of the current system? My criticism of the current system is that we're over financializing. That is to say there's more people who hope to make a killing on Wall street than to start a company, work their butts off and be an electrician and have 15 people working with you and have so many contracts that you're going to make fortune. That's business.

You can just ride doge to the moon.

Yes, that is the path to holiness. We are in danger of making out of a nation of workers and creators, a nation of gamblers. That and I clearly differentiate between this is the free market economy and the financialized financial market which is then it's sort of a top down system controlled in a sense by a few. That is what I would call crony capitalism. Maybe that's the trouble.

Well, speaking of capitalism and being that Andreas said that it's okay to be crassly for it, let's talk about the people who capitalize our show, our sponsors at our Patreon. So Father Rich, let's get a little bit of your best capitalist pitch right here and let's see if people choose us through the free market.

Let me tell you right now, go to hallow.com Hallow is the number one Catholic app in the App Store today. They have phenomenal, phenomenal gifts and resources for you to enhance your prayer life. And there's a reason why it's number one and people are flooding to that app right now and it's because of the rich tradition of the Catholic faith in prayer. And they have everything from Bible in a Year with Father Mike Schmitz to Lexio Divina Journaling features and so many things are added day by day. I know Ryan Delacross. It's his favorite app on his phone. Ryan, why don't you share your experience?

Yeah, we were talking about this before the show, about how crazy life is with, you know, seven kids and my mother and, you know, all these different things going on.

And your mother's next door.

Yeah, it's just like one big compound of noise. And you know, sometimes I don't, I don't get up and allow the proper time for me to, to have an encounter with God, which is so important. You know, it's, it's, it's transformative when you actually take time to pray and you commune with God. And this app has really helped me because it's guided meditation. So all I do is just have to find a place and just sit down and just be quiet, you know, that's all I have to do. It's very difficult to do. Sometimes I go to my car and I lock my doors of the car and you know, I'll, I'll turn on a ten minute meditation. But they're really beautiful, they're guided, which really helps me. So now I don't have to worry about struggling with prayer actually being led by somebody who knows what's going on. But it does, it changes your life. Prayer changes your life. And this is a very good resource to help you pray. It's the best one that I've, I've seen. I do it with my daughter in the, in the truck. I'll be driving her. I'll put a five minute meditation on. We'll talk about it. So, yeah, just a really, really great ministry and beautiful calling they've got over there at Hallow.

Our other sponsor, Catholic Monthly CatholicMonth.ly is a phenomenal devotional box that comes to your door every month. And you know, much like the month of May all centered on Mary, each month there's a different theme and they come out with some great content that will help you enter into the deep culture of the Catholic faith month by month. Shield, why don't you tell them a little bit more about Catholic Monthly?

Yeah, sure. So even if you're a pretty devoutly practicing Catholic, the treasury and the depth of the traditions of the church is overwhelming. It's trying to drink the ocean one cup at a time. And Catholic Monthly can help you really absorb these traditions, these prayers, these devotions of the church in a very structured and engaging and beautiful way. So every month you're going to get a box that delivers to you. Sometimes it's going to have books, sometimes it's going to have artwork. Sometimes it's going to have apparel or sacramentals and devotional items. One month you might get a framed picture of Our lady and a rosary. Another month you might get a candle and a book and a T shirt. Right? Each month helps you to grow methodically in your faith, in your practice and understanding of the church. So if you go to CatholicMonth ly right now and you sign up, you'll get your first month 50% off. So you get that first box sent to you half off. See if you like it. It's something you can cancel anytime. It's a subscription. Cancel anytime. But really, you're going to start looking forward to receiving these in the mail because it's one of those things that every month it says, okay, this month, how am I getting better in my faith? How am I growing closer to Christ? How am I understanding my faith deeper? And this helps you in a structured way every month to achieve that. Now, one last thing. Father Rich, why don't you tell people about our Patreons and how much they do for us and how much we love them?

We would not be able to do this show without our patrons. If you're considering being a financial subscriber to the platform Patreon, it's a way that you could support us. And we've got great swag, as Ryan Delacroix shared earlier in the show, that we would love to send your way. In fact, one of our patrons here in my parish at St. John Paul II in Nocatee, he said he was wearing the Catholic talk show hoodie as he got onto a plane in Atlanta. And these guys in one row, three guys said, hey, Catholic talk show. And they were like. He was like, yeah. And he's like, my pastor's on the show. And they're like, no way. And it was just really, you know, it's just so random. So we've got some cool swag to send your way. We really appreciate your generosity. So if you are considering becoming a patron, go to catholictalkshow.com patreon and there you'll see all the swag that you can subscribe for.

Yeah, it's really cool. We've been doing monthly, I'm sorry, weekly hangouts where after the episode airs usually on Tuesdays, on Wednesdays, we do a meeting. Brian Delacrosse hosts it. We pray together, we read scripture together, we discuss the episode. And like Ryan mentioned earlier, you're able to Help us give feedback on the episodes. And a lot of the questions that we had for Andreas came from them because we let them know we're going to be doing this. They got to get their questions. And so it's a way that you can not only support our ministry, but deeply participate in it and get to know us personally as well. So go to patreon.com catholictalkshow to sign up now.

Yeah, we're really starting to build a community here, you know, with the hangouts. And Father Rich and I are going on an expedition with some gentlemen. I mean, it's really exciting to see how all this is taking shape. This creativity, this that's been imbued on us by the Holy Spirit to just do this. It's really cool to see the fruit, right? I mean, it's like, it's a really big blessing. So we appreciate all your support out there.

And it's at the essence of what Andreas was expressing, you know, Tivolo, Bene, you know, to wish the good of another. And Andres, I can't thank you enough. On behalf of all of our fans and patrons and subscribers on all of our platforms, we want to express our gratitude to you for sharing your testimony, for defending our Pope, for stepping up in leadership and living out what St. John Paul II inspired you to do on top of that mountain and the Feast of the Ascension that we just celebrated. Jesus himself sent out the apostles to preach the gospel everywhere and to spread that goodwill. And you clearly had that mountaintop experience, and it's beautiful that we were able to experience that with you in your testimony. So please, Andreas, is there a way that people could get in touch with you on social media or any other way that they could find out more about your mission and ministry?

Oh, praise God for this. It's been a great experience. Thank you so much for having me. I am on Facebook. I have a Pope and the CEO. I wrote a book called the Pope and the CEO. It's available on Amazon. I have a Facebook account under that. And then I'm on Instagram and on LinkedIn, so I welcome any connections. And then I sort of send out on those social platforms the stuff we do at the Sioka center, which is the part of the school at CUA that I lead. That's great.

And I'll make sure that I put links to his book, the Pope and the CEO. If you go to catholictalkshow.com and go to this episode's page, there'll be a link right to that where you can get that book and learn about that experience. And then also a link to CUA's Bush School, which is Business Catholic. Edu. Those links will be there, as well as all the links to our sponsorships and to any other things that we mentioned. Now, Father, before we go, I wanted to thank Andreas again, myself, personally. But would you give us a little blessing in our audience before we close this episode down?

Absolutely. Through the intercession of St. John Paul II, may Almighty God bless. Enrich you for the goodness and the identity that you are in the image of God. May you share that goodness wherever you go. In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen. Tivo Bene Grazia.

God bless.

We'll see you next week.

Peace.

Sam.