S01 E14 - Andreas Widmer

Foreign.

Hey, folks, David. Michael Phelps here, and welcome to another episode of Working Man. We've taken a short break from posting episodes of Working man this month. Since this month has been especially busy. Aside from continuing to develop this whole trade school, we've been preparing for a visit from our bishop. We've launched a large fundraising initiative, and of course, we continue to face the really profound challenges brought about by the coronavirus pandemic. It's not easy starting a school, much less in the midst of a plague. So we needed to take a short break from the podcast. Later in this episode, I'll give you all a bit of an update on all the matters I just mentioned. But I know you're here to hear our guest. And our guest today is a special one. Andreas Widmer is the director of the SIOKA center for Principled Entrepreneurship at the Bush School of Business at the Catholic University of America. He's also a former tech executive, but many of you may be familiar with him from his book the Pope and the CEO, where he details the lessons he learned in his former life as a bodyguard to St. John Paul II. You heard that right. Think about that, having Saint bodyguard listed on your resume. This was just such a great conversation. And I walked away with about a dozen things I wanted to integrate into my work and into my prayer and my life and my thinking. And I just think you're really going to like this a lot. So with without further ado, here is Andreas Widmer.

So my name is Andreas Widmer. I'm a professor of entrepreneurship at the Catholic University of America. And I started a center there called the center for Principled Entrepreneurship, the Sioka center of Principled Entrepreneurship, named after a great innovator and leader in the wine industry, actually in the United States, a good friend of mine, Art Sioka. And in the center for Principled Entrepreneurship, we're trying to promote person centered entrepreneurship, person centered business. And that goes back to a vision that I have received from John Paul ii, whom I was very privileged to serve as one of his guards, one of his bodyguards in the Swiss guards, the late 80s. Sort of found my faith through him. Not just sort of, but quite a lot. But, you know, one step forward, two steps back. I found my faith in the Vatican and then went into business as a high tech entrepreneur in the United States. And I wouldn't say I lost my faith again, but my faith was limited to Sunday. And you know, the Lord Jesus was the Lord on Sunday, but I was the Lord from Monday through Saturday and had lots of experiences, very blessed with the high tech startup career, but then sort of saw some of the short falling shortcomings of the economic system and of humanity quite frankly, and did had sort of a deeper conversion again, again initiated by John Paul to understand more deeply what it would mean to be a Christian business person, specifically a Catholic business person. And that is what I teach today.

Well, so let's talk about that term a little bit. I mean, I think entrepreneurship is a pretty recognizable term and everyone has a general sense of what that means. But when you fix the modifier principled to the front of that, what's your intention there?

Well, we need to do both. We need to define entrepreneurship and principle. I find that anyway that once you give things names, it becomes, you know, what do you mean by sure? Well, look, entrepreneurship very simply is to do more with less. That doesn't mean you have to start a company. Many people are entrepreneurs, great entrepreneurs who didn't start a company. They do more with less. They scale things, they innovate, they expand, they make things more efficient. This is, in my opinion, this is all entrepreneurship as far as the principles are concerned. I do think there are specific principles that we promote that we say are the core of what we teach. And we do have five specific principles that we promote, the chief of which is that the economy exists for man, not man for the economy. And that sort of gives the gist to the whole idea of saying why do we do business in the first place? It's never to forget that we existed first and the economy is something that we do. The economy is not something that it needs us much more than we need it.

It's one of those concepts where you think, well, that that ought to be an obvious thing. But the fact that you would have to say and teach in school, something in that proposition would tell us that, well, maybe it's not as obvious in practice. Is that the case?

It's very easy in life to lose the forest for the trees. And what we end up doing is just with any job. I mean, this is something that we have to struggle with in our own lives every week, maybe every day, but we as a society even more so. That is, you go to your job and everything and you start to have goals and things you want to achieve, to do items and things like this. And at the end it becomes about them, about these achievements. How much did your business grow this week? Or how many customers did you call? Or how many of a certain gadget did you produce? And everything, while those are valuable measurements and everything we have to go to the. To the core of it of saying, why am I doing this in the first place? It doesn't matter that. It doesn't mean that these things don't matter, our productivity and all of that, but it's just that something else matters even more. And that is the core reason why we do business. It's the core reason why we do work. And that is person centered. On the one hand, for us, as a personal mission, in a sense, is that when we work, this is something beautiful that John Paul explained. You see, when we work, he would say, we don't just make more, we become more. Work has a deep anthropological meaning. Work is one of the ways that we are made in the image and likeness of God. You know, God doesn't look like anything like us, but in comparison to all the other animals that he made. And he made us the same way, out of clay and all that, you know. And that's why Genesis talks about this, to show that we're actually an animal. But we're made in the image and likeness of God. Because God breathed his life, his spirit into us. And that made us different. The way we're different is actually interior. And what he made us do, what God allowed us to do, is to participate in his creativity. Only God can make something out of nothing. Think about it. When you actually are at work and you create something. You start with a thought with nothing, and you make something out of it. And then it becomes a physical presence. And in a way, that physical presence, that product even then you sell it and it goes away from you. There's a little bit of you going, you know, that you give away. In a sense, that is exactly how God is in creation now, given and Aquinas goes into that, that we could never do such a thing. This has to be the presence of God. Otherwise we could. I couldn't create ex nihilo, right? I can't do that. But God gives me access to him. And he actually, with me, creates, or I, in a sense, with Him. Him may be through me. What that means then, is that I, in a sense, imitate God. Every time I get up and I work, I imitate God. What happens when you imitate somebody so much? What happens, hopefully, is that you become more like them. When you become more like them, we call that how is God? God is holy. We become holy. Work is a path to holiness. Now we have the forest again. The forest of this, of work is. Is. Let's never forget that this is supposed to make us holy. So if we go into the weeds of it and we are all concerned with all kinds of things and we actually can use it as a means for us not to become holy? Actually, quite the opposite. See, this is how we need to go back to the first principle and say this economy, this work that I'm doing, is actually meant to build me up, is actually meant to help me become the best version of myself, to become a saint. And I think this is why we have that as an overriding principle. On the personal side.

Yeah. Do you have any advice, any practical advice? Because it seems to me that keeping an awareness in front of you that this is a path to holiness, keeping in front of your eyes that you're collaborating with God in this moment, for lack of a better term, the contemplation while you work. Right. Do you have any practical advice for someone in keeping that at the forefront so they're less apt to get tempted to lose the forest for the trees?

I like to talk about several aspects when I teach this at the business school. I try to introduce to the students the idea of talents and non talents and to make a specific understanding of yourself, of where are my strengths? How would my best version look like? How would St. Andrea's beauty or St. David, you know, how does this person. What are their strengths? Because not every saint has every strength. These are not superman or superwomen. What they are is people who take full advantage of the gifts that God gave them. And I want to talk about gifts and non gifts. I, for example, I think I have a fairly strong gift to talk and to make principles visual and so on, which I can do in many ways. I started in sales, I can sell, I can be the intermediary between a product and a company and the customer. But I can also do this teaching or the talking, something like that. Now you don't want to give me the budget though, because I'm not that, you know, after counting 10 beyond 10, it gets very tricky. So now if we're looking at creating a team, for example, the first person that I would ever hire is a finance person or an accountant. So that I would have somebody next to me who might not be as strong verbally as I am, but is more but compensate for my weakness with numbers. And then you see how this starts to create a community that we actually talk about. What is my strength? What is your strength? What is your non strength? And let's hope that I can have that strength and so that we actually compensate each other and make our team stronger. This is again a Vision of the communion of saints, if you wish, that actually come. This is the beauty of these vast numbers of saints that actually complement each other. And that's something that we're doing now. What this does in terms of me individually, it helps me in humility and humility is that I, I approach reality as it is it. I approach my, as somebody with strengths and weaknesses and lots of opportunities to grow. But I do not, I am no longer frustrated that I'm not a numbers guy because I'm at peace with that. I know my weakness and that's one of my weaknesses. There's others, of course, but then I can also really say let me build on my strengths and actually get into my own on this and invest in the strength so that you can actually get much higher return on investment on your talents than trying to improve your non talents. That's something that I believe that on an individual basis one of the things that we should have is these plans that can be daily, weekly, monthly, ideally years and five years to say how am I going to reach my excellence, what excellence am I after and where can I really grow in my strengths? And I think that's something that again allows you to go beyond the individual daily productivity or something like that. But it gives you the bigger picture of, especially when that comes from a prayerful background of saying, what do I believe? What do I find that God's vision for my life can be and then to actually pursue that.

Well, let me, let me ask you this. So you've had quite a storied career, I'd say, right? I mean you got into tech, I'm guessing, early 90s, thereabouts. And that was quite a time to get into it. In your own work, how have you found that to be a help or a hindrance in finding your own excellencies and finding your own Saint Andreas?

I got into the high tech world very early. I got into the earliest part of the Internet, porting TCP IP to the PC. So my first company there was with this FTP software, brought the Internet to the PC. One of three companies who did. When you have early success, I was 23 years old. When you have early success, you end up falling prey to thinking that it's you. You know, it's easier to stay humble if you fail, although then you can fall into this saying it's everybody else's fault, just not mine. It's another version of pride. But it makes it difficult if you're successful from a very young age, that it makes it difficult for you to keep God at the center. I think this is one of the things that Jesus talks about with the rich going through the needle of an eye because it just, you lose perspective. It's so money itself is not a bad thing and even wealth is not a bad thing. The danger with it is it becomes so blinding, it is so bright that you can't see other stuff. And I think that's something that you have to think about and keep asking yourself how much is enough? And then settle for a lifestyle that is that and let the rest of it not blind you. I think that's a very important step to take for anybody. And I don't mean somebody to be a multimillionaire or somebody or something, but even just if somebody listens to this, who's just in high school now or something or in their early 20s or 30s to say, at what level would I be comfortable? I think is enough for me to do what I need to do and have a family and everything. And then write that down and then stick to it. Because you will see that God is going to give that to you very quickly. And then once you have it, you're going to say, well, that's fine. Once you're there, you're saying, I need more than that and I need more than that. And for everything more, you better have a very good justification. Very difficult to be honest like that with yourself. That's one of the benefits of having needs for either having a spiritual director or some very strong accountability group around you.

Yeah, that notion of self limitation is not a very popular trait in our culture to willingly limit yourself, but intentionally self limit. Do you have any particular spiritual practices? Well, you just mentioned a spiritual director. Do you have any examples of that?

Perhaps for me, I've had a spiritual director on and off for different times. I find it during really challenging times. It's very good to have a spiritual director once in longer stretches of life where there's not a huge turmoil. What I have had for the last 20 years or so is a small prayer group of like men in the same state of life as I am. And this is what I call my accountability group. These are my brothers. I have prayed with them every Friday morning at 6 o' clock for 20 years. And they know everything. And they call us bae. To spade we go. We have every right to get into each other's lives and to know what's going on into every detail. And there's no, you know, no limits. We pray together, we talk to each other of what we're Struggling with. In all areas of our lives. This has been one of the most rewarding spiritual experiences for me in my life. And I would recommend this to just. To really anybody. That has been a huge. A huge benefit to my spiritual life.

Yeah, it seems to me that if humility is required and if humility means seeing reality as it is, having a half dozen other pair of eyes helping see that would be helpful.

You know, of course I'm married, so I have a wife, Michelle, and she's of course also in a sense a spiritual guide as it is meant to be in. In marriage. The trouble with it is that in marriage, the longer you're married, the more you see the other person you be. You really become one, you know, is that you see what the other person says almost like your own thoughts. And I don't really. And you start to not. And the best corrector in your life or the most effective corrector in your life isn't your wife anymore because she gets way too close for yourself. Not in a negative way, but just that you don't even distinguish. And it's not a voice that quite can call you as much as a friend who's very close to you, but he's different and he's going to call you on the carpet. And this is very powerful and I find it has many times. Some of my strongest errors or faults were called out by that group and I was asked to fix them.

I heard you give this talk and something you said struck me particularly was this notion of if you don't know the person, your parking attendant's name, or if you don't know the name of the person who say, cleans your company or your office, you don't know their names. That's problematic. Maybe you can expound on that.

Yeah, I know what you're talking about. The thing this comes from this experience that I had is to the outside it looks like a Swiss Guard is something exotic or really cool or anything, which of course I thought it was very cool. But the thing is that its real job is to be in the background and nobody should notice you and you should be quiet and just. And you do your job well when nobody notices and people walk by you and after a while they don't even see you anymore. And that's sort of what security is supposed to be. That is not. And also that the status of a Swiss Guard inside the Vatican isn't a very high status. I mean, this is the bottom food chain, right? I mean, and especially a soldier like I was, I had no rank or anything. So I. And I went through some pretty. Especially in the beginning when I. When I showed up there, I was an insecure young man who was really searching and made and thought I made a huge mistake going there. Once I got there first from far away. Again, this looks really cool and everything, but once you're in there, this is military and it's drab. It's like. It's like worse military. And so I felt horrible. You know, I didn't want to be there and everything. And John Paul was the only person really who noticed. That's funny, because the top guy notices, and there's all these people around me that I even share rooms with, eat with every day and everything. Nobody notices. And he notices and basically reaches out to me. This is my whole conversion story. And I wrote this book, the Pope and the CEO, but I tell all the details of this. But the key of this is that he notices that somebody who is in a completely, you know, 10 levels or 20 levels lower on the lowest position, that he is human enough to feel the other person's state of soul and then reaches that. I come up with the parking attendant, or I call it the valet or something like, because it's about the same thing that most people don't even talk to them. They just give them the key and say, do this. And the valet is. Or sometimes the person at the front desk at a large building and an office tower, something like that, where you just walk by and if they do their job well, then you don't even notice who they are. And for him to notice me is like for you to notice them. I found that his secret was that he was, on the one hand, had his big picture all fixed and saying, this is my plan for holiness, my plan for life, and. And to have a life plan and everything. So he could put that aside and then focus on the moment. And one of the things I learned is that his favorite prayer was, lord, let me see everybody I meet today through your eyes. Because if you wouldn't love them, they wouldn't be alive. They would poof. They would go away. They would cease to exist in a moment, right? And he says, give me this gift. Give me this gift to just momentarily see anybody with your eyes. I want your eyes, Lord. This is what gave him this gift of presence, how he could be in front of a million people. And everybody there thought he was there for them. Every time I met him, I thought he got up to say hello to me in the morning, you know, and that is this Both end of having a plan, but living in the present, there again, it's the forest and the trees, right? If you have that vision for your holiness, for your excellence, and at the same time, the vision of the presence in saying I want to actually see reality, you know, this is something that's interesting, that if you have that vision into eternity, the only place eternity intersects with this world is in the present. It doesn't. Not in the past, it's not in the future, only in the present. And of course, this is where the two things come together. That he has this vision for eternity, for his holiness, for his excellence. And then he, because he has that and he can put that away, he doesn't have to worry about the future. He can live in the presence. And I think that gave people wonder, why is this man so in a sense, charismatic that people feel like this? That's it. And he would say that this is something that everybody can do. And that's why I'm encouraging people to, in an analogy, to get to know their valet or their front desk.

Well, am I right in assuming that this is also what's meant by sort of a person centered view of work or a person centered view of business is really cultivating that type of vision.

My favorite sentence, and I think business starts with a question. And the question is, how may I help you? That is the most Christian question you can ask, how may I help you? Whether you are an electrician or a welder or a bank president, or, you know, a software executive, how may I help you? Will allow you to keep the right person centered view of business.

That's wonderful. The thing I love about that too is like so much of the gospel, it's. What's a good word? It's a rather earthy and immediate. It's the most ordinary, actionable. Yeah, it's actionable. And it's not some grand, some grab crop proverb.

Holiness is actionable. This is what I mean by the eternity meeting. The present. Holiness is not tomorrow. Holiness is not yesterday. Holiness is now. And that means, you know, like Saint Therese of Lisieux where she says holiness is the little stuff because now is the little stuff. You can't do the big thing today. You'll wait forever. But it's the little things, but they add up. A little more humility, a little more living for others, or how may I help you? A little more helping others. And it starts to bloom as you.

Look ahead to your own work and helping people understand this, helping your students understand this. What do you find Are the largest challenges to helping them understand or helping them take action in that regard?

Actually, it's the taking action that's the hardest. So look, anybody who runs a business, who has a family, is a father or a mother, or has students, knows that it's difficult to act on these things because human nature is a fallen nature. And there is that St. Paul aspect of understanding, but not doing or doing the opposite. And this challenge of excellence is our constant struggle. Everybody's excited about it. But then when it comes to. I always say that a grade in a school class is just a measure of your will. Because if you do what the professor says, you got into the school and everything, all you have to do is do what you're asked to do and you'll be fine. The thing is that we don't do it. And so it is in life that to actually do the right thing for the moment, which often is the uncomfortable thing, the thing that goes against our immediate gratification kind of idea is difficult. At the same time, it's also difficult if you manage people. I find at all stages in my life, even now that I run the center, that managing people is a very difficult thing to do. Because John Paul would always say to us, I cannot want for you. You have to want yourself. Boy, that's a deep truth. Because you can encourage people, you can lay things out. And then when the other person moves into the wanting and starts to act, there's no guarantee that this person actually acts according to how you see the company move or what you need that position to do. And then starts this interpersonal mess of which is actually. And that therein lies the holiness, by the way, that we actually have to deal with each other as individuals. To say that you can't just. John Paul also said nobody works for anybody. Everybody. They only work with somebody. And so you can't just go in and barge into this person's office workshop and say, I told you to do it. And then you tell them what to do. And don't talk back to me. Why do I have to do it? Because I'm telling you to. That is not how we do things. But if that is not how we do things, the way we do things is very difficult, you know, to go the extra mile to bring the person with you, to put them next to you, to talk with them about the common vision, which of course then by definition includes compromise changes. And that's a constant. As a manager or as an owner of a company, that is a constant readjustment. And that's you know, that's the messiness of the personal, of business. You know, that takes patience. And if anybody who's listening now is dealing with something like this, which I think most people who run a business are, then I ask you to have that patience, to say, this is what this is. It's not like you're not there to have it, to be on the achieved side. This is something that constantly is. This never becomes. This always is. And it's your job to go through this, this whole mess thing. That's what it is.

That's it.

That's it. And so stay there. And then once you know that that's where you are and that's where you're going to stay, then you can make much more peace with it and you can actually get better at it. You will never have a group of students or people in a company or a family that just all falls in line and says, of course we're going to exactly do what you say.

And it makes it all the more admirable when you find people who are able to live in the now and meet those messes and attain some sort of not only holiness in themselves, but to create communities.

You say that there is an interest in, and not being afraid of community, but also of conflict. Because sometimes that manager, that parent, that teacher has to say, and you can do so much better than that. I'm not accepting this. The manager, in a way, has this role of being given custody of another person's career and talents. And if you settle for mediocrity, that's on you. Boy, are many of us guilty of this? Of letting other people get away with mediocrity just because it's not comfortable to ask for the job to be properly done? We do a lot of mistakes like that and think it's on them, but it's not. It's actually on us.

Hey, gang.

We're going to get back to our chat with Andreas here in a bit, but I just want to take a short interruption to just give you a quick update on Harmel. As I mentioned at the top of the show, we've been really busy this month. We were honored to host a visit by Bishop David Wolkowiak. He's our bishop here in Grand Rapids. And Bishop Wolkowiak has been a steady and a strong supporter of our work here. And after showing him around campus and giving him an update on our development, and after he blessed our offices, he helped us to welcome a couple dozen of friends and volunteers of Harmel now, arranging socially distanced outdoor receptions is, it's fair to say, not directly in our wheelhouse here at Harmel, but it was a lovely time and it was a real encouragement also this month. Now, here's something exciting. We announced our new program to train electricians. Originally, we planned on launching this program in the fall of 2021, but thanks to a really great program and wonderful partner, we've managed to move the program development ahead of schedule. And we may be able to launch the first class of this program as early as January 2021. So listen, if you know of someone who's interested in being trained as an electrician at Harmel, please send them our way. Send them to harmelacademy.org or have them just email me directly@dmparmelacademy.org if we get enough interest early enough, we may be able to launch our second program way ahead of schedule. And we're really excited about that. Third, I mentioned earlier as well the challenges we have faced as a result of the coronavirus. Certainly, we're not in any way special in this regard, but the situation in Michigan has been especially challenging for us. While our state here in Michigan was one that got hit early by coronavirus, things seem to have settled pretty well here. But unfortunately, the political climate of the state remains volatile enough to prevent the sort of stability you'd want if you were planning well for the coming months. So it's been a real challenge to make plans. And to be honest, unless we see a little bit more stability in the daily life of Michigan, we. We may actually be forcing a delayed start to our academy. We don't want to do that, but it's a possibility. But nonetheless, we remain focused on God and his will. And we know that Providence will direct all things to the good. So keep us in your prayers as we try to navigate these waters about what coronavirus means for the fall at Harmel Academy. And a last bit of nose here this week, we launched something we're really very excited about. It's our first fundraising drive. One of the Friends of Harmel Academy has offered us $10,000 to find 100 donors in 15 days. Now, here's the thing. Thanks to the power of analytics, I know that we have listeners to Workingman from all over the country. You're one of them. And I want you to understand something about yourself. Listen, I would love it if you would consider throwing a donation our way to help us meet our goal. But the real power you hold is not simply your pocketbook. It's your Friendships. If every one of our listeners were to share our fundraising campaign with their social network, not only would we blow our goal away, but we would do it by an order of magnitude. That's the power you have. Now, I know you believe in what we're doing here, and you won't believe how much we appreciate the investment of time that you have put into this podcast, but I just want to ask you for five more minutes. Would you become an advocate kit for Harmel academy in our 100 friends of Harmel fundraising campaign? It's super easy to do it. Here's what you do. I want you to go to givecampus.com that's givecampus.com when you're there, search for Harmel Academy and you will see our fundraising campaign pop up. At that point, you can choose to pitch in a few bucks into the campaign, and that would be excellent. We but at the very least, you'll see in that campaign something called an advocate link that provides you a way to share our campaign with all your social networks at the click of a button. This one simple thing would allow us to reach literally thousands, maybe tens of thousands of people. And these are people I think would consider supporting our work here. If you would advocate for us. If you're listening to this podcast, I know that you are already on board with us. So if you would become an advocate for Harmel Academy on givecampus.com it could be a real game changer for us. So thank you, really. All right, enough of that. Let's get back to Andreas Widmer.

Obviously, at Harmel, one of the things that we're hoping to do is to take the question of work more broadly and try to not reintroduce it. I don't think it's gone away, but try to focus it on the experience of the working man, the skilled tradesman, and do what we can to provide a place for young men to be formed in those trades and in their character and to pursue the holiness you talk about. One of the challenges in that is a lot of the. A lot of the conversation about work and about economics and about the role that work in business has to do in our holiness. A lot of that conversation comes out of sort of academic sources very often, or it comes out of sort of the lived experience of experienced businessmen and entrepreneurs like yourself. But being able to approach those topics in such a way that it's very accessible and immediately accessible, in a sense, to the man who works as a plumber, the man who's a skilled machinist do you have any advice on that type of. I guess translation maybe would be a word.

I think that that area of business is very promising. So the trade, I think, is highly undervalued at this point in the United States, but is, I believe, about to experience a resurgence. What happened to our economy is lamentable in the sense that I'm totally. I believe in the free market, in competition. I believe in excellence and work as a means to holiness. What has happened to competition is that our entire industry has moved to a large extent into the financial market. There's devastating consequences because of that. We have moved in the wrong way rather than. So that the financial market is. Is maybe the expectations for the future, maybe the psychology of the market, but it doesn't really have anything to do with the actual product on the ground. That economy, that sort of future economy that is betting on other people's failures or successes and things like that, in a sense, which is funny money because it is not really there. It's a bet into the future. This gambling economy, if you wish, is four times larger than our actual economy today. That is not good. The financial industry is supposed to be a support function for the actual economy. Remember, this goes back to this first principle again. The economy is for men, not man for the economy. And ultimately, if we ultimately make the subjective financial currency and even future hopes or maybes of this currency the boss, that cannot be. That is wrong. And it's wrong in the sense that this will lead us into some form of enslavement. If you wish. It moves the person out of the center of the economy, whereas the trade, actual trade, moves the person in the middle of work. And that's something we should never forget. We need to go back to actual value add in this system. How may I help you? Can I make a product that makes something easier for you to go back into this primary economy, in a sense, the working economy, Main street rather than Wall Street. I think what will happen is that eventually things will blow up on the side of these financial markets and then there will be a disillusion with it and things move back to saying, okay, we can work normally, right? I also think that times like this, a crisis like Covid brings home the very strong point is that we need to have certain skills and abilities here because it's very far away to go around the world to get something that not only financial efficiency is important on this, but also geographic efficiency. And so that we need tradesmen around us. And this is, you know, I highly commend you for what your school is doing. This is really an important undertaking and very important work that you're doing, and I commend every student who joins you.

Hey, thank you everyone, for listening. Just a quick reminder. Please remember to head to givecampus.com search for Harmel Academy and become an advocate for our 100 friends of Harmel fundraising campaign. Only a few minutes and a few bucks could help form a generation of Catholic tradesmen. GiveCampus.com it really helps us. We really appreciate it. All right, we'll see you all soon.

It.