83. How to Support the Mama Microbiome with Anu Simh

Hey, mama. Welcome back to another episode of the well Nourished Mama podcast. I am so excited for today's interview because we are talking about one of my favorite topics and that is gut health. I know this seems like a really trendy topic. I wouldn't call it trendy per se, because I don't think it's ever not going to be important or relevant. I think we're just finally gaining awareness around our gut health, what it is, how it impacts us, and why it needs to be such a focus and a foundation for our health. So I know we just talk about it a lot, but today's episode is really focusing on gut health during pregnancy and postpartum, how it affects our health during both of these stages, and what we can do to support our gut health if we find that there are problems. Anu is such an incredible educator. She is so fun to talk to. She's so knowledgeable, and she does a really good job of keeping things really simple, but also making sure that we understand that everything is connected. So it's not necessarily like our gut health in pregnancy is isolated or that we're only going to experience issues in postpartum. She does a really good job of explaining how pregnancy leads into postpartum and postpartum impacts our baby's health when they're breastfeeding and how we can combat that with solids and supplements and all these things. So I think it's going to be really interesting, especially if you are new to the topic of gut health and you don't know a lot about it. And as always, I try to find really engaging guests that are just really good at teaching us about their. Their expertise without boring us. Right. So I hope you love today's episode with Anu. As always, if you hear like, random sounds throughout the episode. I am super early postpartum myself and I don't really have the luxury of leaving my baby elsewhere because I never know when he's going to wake up and need to eat or whatever. So if you hear random sounds or you hear me make a random comment that doesn't seem like it's related to whatever we're talking about, it's probably because I'm trying to, like, soothe Levi in the middle of the interview. So I hope you bear with me. I'm obviously a mom that also works and we are just doing our best around here. I show up as a well nourished mama and I bring my kids with me and we're just making the most of what we got. So I hope you enjoy today's episode. Let me know in my DMs on Instagram if you have any questions or if you enjoyed it and be sure to share it with a mama that you think needs to hear it. All right, let's dive into today's episode with Anu all about gut health during Pregnancy and Postpartum hey Mama. My name is Brooke and just like you, I want to show up for my kids in the best way possible. But you and I both know that that means our cup needs to be filled first. Here on the well Nourished Mama Podcast, we learn about all the different ways we can nourish our bodies, minds and souls in every stage of motherhood, including pregnancy, birth and postpartum. As a mom of three and certified perinatal Nutritionist and women's health coach, I'm here to educate, empower and inspire you as you navigate your unique motherhood journey and raise your family. Tune in each week for episodes about nutrition, exercise, wellness, lactation, marriage and so much more and walk away with simple but actionable tips to help you be a well nourished mama. Foreign did you know that postpartum women lose up to 500 milligrams of iron during childbirth? Or that deficiencies in key nutrients like omega 3s, B vitamins and magnesium are all directly linked to higher rates of postpartum depression, anxiety, brain fog and chronic fatigue? Despite this, most postpartum care plans focus on baby's needs and completely ignore mama's recovery, offering little to no guidance on how to replenish her body after pregnancy. That's where the new Mama Cookbook comes in. It's not just a cookbook, it's a six week science backed recovery plan with 48 nutrient dense recipes specifically designed to support postpartum healing. Every week focuses on replenishing key nutrients to help you balance your hormones, boost your energy, regulate your mood and truly recover from childbirth. If you're tired of guessing what your body needs and you want a clear, evidence based approach to postpartum health, it's time to take your recovery into your own hands. Get the new Mama Cookbook at the link in the show notes and give your body the nutrients it deserves to heal, thrive and feel like yourself again. Hi Anu, thanks so much for joining us today. We're excited to have you here.

Hi Brooke, pleasure's all mine. Thank you so much.

Yeah, I am really looking forward to our conversation today because the gut microbiome is a really trendy topic right now. There's a lot of influencers that are talking about it. There's a lot of doctors that are talking about it, and people are starting to do more research about it. You and I were talking about this before we started recording how new research is coming about out about different things that are related to our gut health and our gut microbiome. So it's going to be a great conversation. But before we jump into that, can you just tell us a little bit about yourself, how you got into functional medicine, ayurvedic health, and just your career path?

Yeah, sure. You know, like most practitioners, I had my own health issues. I had specifically gut issues. And interestingly, I. I did see my microbiome changing. At the time, I didn't know it was the microbiome because I didn't know anything about the microbiome. I think with the birth of my second. My second born, you know, it was. I. I sensed that there was something shifting, but it wasn't so dramatic that I paid attention to it. I just knew that there was something that was off. But then, you know, fast forward many years, I just started seeing a difference in my gut health. And this was a time when we didn't know a lot about IBS or SIBO and things like that. We didn't even know about the microbiome and the connection of microbiome and women's health and especially pregnant and postpartum. We didn't know a lot of that. It was just, you know, in its infancy. And so there I was, struggling with all of this. No idea, just going from doctor to doctor, doing, you know, following the rules, just saying, oh, maybe I try this, maybe I add more protein. Just kind of in the dark about everything, right? And then nothing fetched me results. I was just so feeling really hopeless and very disappointed. And. And after one, you know, meeting with the doctor and he was like, he just brushed it off as, like, just a little bit of bloating, you know, just suck it up. Not a big deal.

You're a woman. Women bloat.

Yeah, women bloat. Or. Well, I'm a doctor, I'm a resident. I've gone through that too. It's not a big deal. So that didn't sit well with me. And I still remember sitting in my car just saying, oh, my gosh, you know, what do I do? You know, I want to be able to eat all the foods that I want to eat. And why am I not being able to. Young mother.

For those not watching, I just yawned. I was trying to hide it, but she caught me.

Yeah, it's not me, guys. It's just Brooke being a mom. Yeah. So I sat there and I just, I clearly remember hearing my grandfather's voice. He was a physicist, a renaissance man, and he'd always told me that food is medicine and had forgotten, you know. You know, you're just raising your kids, you're struggling, you're doing so many things, you're working. And I just kind of resorted to convenience. And I think that can resonate with a lot of listeners. You know, we're trying so wearing so many different hats, right? And we just forget that the most important thing is our own health. We take care of ourselves first, just like the whole seatbelt sort of thing, you know, we take care, take care of ourselves first before we take care of our children. And that was a huge reminder for, for me. And I remember going to the local library at ucsd, sitting there, researching the heck of it, and I said, I've got to put my science background to work and figure out what's happening here, what's, you know. And that's how I fell in love with the microbiome. I really, I realized that this was like the missing piece of the puzzle. You know, there was something that I was doing or not doing that was triggering some kind of an situation in my gut and my gut br axis. You know, I was feeling kind of really out of it because of the, because of my gut issues. So fast forward, the human microbiome project had started. We were getting a lot of researchers like the Sorenbergs talking about it. And so I started getting very excited about it and learning more, learning, learning how to, how to feed my children. And I started an organic garden, you know, just, and a lot of diversity. And I, I noticed that as I started doing this, increasing my diversity, I started feeling better. You know, it wasn't overnight, obviously, Brooke. It took a long time, you know, because when you have a gut imbalance, it takes a little bit of time for things to fall back into place. But it eventually did. And I started feeling better. In fact, better than ever before, you know, So I was convinced that taking care of these forever guests in our, in our gut really held key, you know, to overall well being. So I, I took it, I started taking it seriously. I started helping a lot of other people with it. And yeah, and the book was just, you know, just my clients asking me, hey, why don't you write a book that has everything in one place? So I'm not looking for different things. I just want, I want the information about the Microbiome, I want how to feed it and some recipes. So I really took that to heart and started working on it. The past three years, I've been working, researching, putting it all together. So finally it's done. Yeah, so that's how it all started, you know, and I see this as so important, especially for the young mothers, you know, because we are given so many messages. Protein is important, and one little thing is important. But I think if we start very early and start helping our children with their microbial health, the sweet spot is, like, from ages 1 to 3 is when, if we really increase their diversity, when the microbiome is changing from that baby microbiome to an adult, like microbiome magic happens. They are set for life. There's so many things that, so many studies showing that this is the important key time to make that, make that change.

I love your story and how you were able to write a book and put all of this in a place where we can learn more and have the resources that we need. And I know we're going to talk about that at the end, but congratulations on your book. That's so exciting. So I'd love to dive into the gut microbiome and understanding it through the lens of pregnancy and postpartum. As I'm sure you're aware, not just as a mom yourself, but as a health practitioner, our gut changes a lot just because we grew and nourished a child. There's a lot of things that have to shift and take place in order to successfully remain pregnant and have a healthy baby and then be able to breastfeed. So kind of setting the stage for that, can you just help us understand briefly what our gut microbiome is like? Where is it in our body? What does it affect throughout our body? Like, just. Let's just lay some groundwork.

So the gut microbiome is. Well, there are just trillions of bacteria in our gut, and there's never been a time when they've not been with us. They are, I call them our forever guests. You know, they've been with us from ever. This is probably the best family heirloom you can pass on to your children, because a mother inherits her microbiome from her mom and you pass it on to your children. And when you've had a vaginal birth, you know, there's definitely several studies showing the advantage of having a vaginal birth versus C section. But all is not lost, even if you do have a C section. I had my second baby was C section, so it became Very important to me to breastfeed my child and really start early on really focusing on diversity for my baby, just because of the disadvantage of a C section. So the microbiome, the gut microbiome is very resilient. My clients always ask me, always, does it take a lot to have a healthy microbiome? So I like to start that conversation by suggesting that understanding what a resilient microbiome is very important. So a resilient microbiome is one that can bounce back from any kind of situation, be it a trip to, let's say, Mexico or antibiotics or pregnancy, puberty, just going back to the state that it really likes to be that, that homeostasis, right? And in order for that to happen, it's very important to have species richness. You know, you have different species carrying out different kinds of functions. Because behind the scenes, these microbes are doing a lot of work for us. They are helping. When we think about the gut microbiome or when you think about, we think about digestion, right? We think about, oh, they're probably helping us with digestion, yes, they help with digestion, but they also help with the gut brain axis, you know, keeping you keeping that anxiety low. Because a lot of these neurotransmitters like serotonin, the happy hormone or gaba, that keeps you really nice and calm, all of that is being produced in the gut by these, by these microbes. So if you have enough players, you know, making these different neurotransmitters and vitamins and important compounds like short chain fatty acids that are so crucial for keeping your blood sugar stable, your gut lining nice and tight, and also your immune system, then everything is working as it should. So that's one of the reasons we need species richness and we also want species evenness. We don't want too much of one kind of microbe. So the Goldilocks principle, or, you know, or, you know, think about it that way. And just having, or just if you're a gardener, think about it as not just a bunch of tomato plants and one zucchini struggling to survive. We don't want that. We want a good variety of species and species richness. So when you have that, you're already at an advantage. And how does this happen? How do you do, how do you, how do you nourish this microbiome so it stays, you know, healthy or resilient? One of the biggest needle movers is diet. So when you feed your microbes the kind of food that they like, you're automatically assuring yourself that it's getting the right kind of fuel to produce all of these things that I just mentioned, like short chain fatty acids, like the vitamins and the neurotransmitters and all of that. And that is largely coming from plant sources. So, and so, Brooke, being a young mother, you know, this is one thing I always tell my clients. Start early when you start feeding your baby solid foods, make sure there's diversity. You know, like from the very beginning, you know, if you start feeding your kid, you know, broccoli and, you know, different kinds of greens and things like that, in small amounts, the baby does not look at that food as foreign or, oh, yikes, it's broccoli. They just adapt and they love it and they, and, and the advantage is they start having a thriving microbiome. So that ages 1 to 3 is super crucial. And I think I. That's my big message to young mothers. You're passing on this amazing gift to your child, and you have the potential to make sure that your child has this incredible jump start in life by feeding them the right kinds of food from the ages of one to three.

I love that. And I want to touch on something you said. You talked about how the microbiome is something that we pass on, right? I inherited my mom's and back, back, back. And now I'm passing it on to my children, right? So looking at it from someone who might feel like they started off at a disadvantage, you look at my family's health history, my parents and my grandparents all have history of type 2 diabetes, cancer, high blood pressure, heart disease, like, all these things, right? So to me, I start off and I'm like, well, if I inherited my mom's microbiome and my grandma's microbiome, then I'm screwed, right? Because like, I just got handed this microbiome that has, you know, fueled all these other diseases. So is, is our microbiome able to change and overcome what, like, the cards we've been dealt? And you know, you just, you take in pregnancy. I've been pregnant three times. I've had three babies factored in with my genes. Am I able to come out on the other side in a way that's beneficial for me and my health? Like, is our microbiome adaptable in that way?

That is a fantastic question and 100%, and this is one of the reasons I feel like this is you can't change your genes or easily. You can't change your genetic makeup, but your microbial makeup, your microbial composition definitely and that's why I feel like we all have a shot at making better choices and making our microbiome composition work for us. You know, and research is showing us that even one week of changing a diet can switch the microbial composition. There's in fact a very interesting study done comparing South African rural women to women in Pittsburgh. So the women in Pittsburgh were eating all of these highly ultra process western diet, the standard American diet, if you will. And the rural South Africans were eating a diet rich in fiber, tubers, things like that. So the researchers switch the diet around for one week, they swapped the diets, and within one week they noticed that the South African microbial composition was shifting to more of the inflammatory, pro inflammatory sort of microbial composition. They were losing some of their bacteria that really were nourishing them and really thrived on their tuber rich foods. And the Pittsburgh women on the other hand, were having some of this anti inflammatory responses to the microbes, which was so brilliant, right? I mean, just one week and gives you hope that it doesn't have to be huge, it doesn't have to be a monumental change. It's little, small, little shifts that can really result in bigger changes. So I think to answer your question, yes, 100% you are not, I mean you may have a certain microbial signature that stays, but you can make it better or something that works for you and your body. Definitely. I've seen this with my clients, how they come to me with maybe 20 species or 50 species. And just for a point of reference, Brooke, the healthy American has maybe about 300 species. I personally haven't seen that in my practice. The highest I've seen is like maybe 148, 150 and the lowest is about 20. You know, and the person who has about 20 species, that's like a ticking time bomb. There's so many things that are happening. The gut brain axis, high inflammation, you know, gut issues, things like that. But it doesn't mean that that's where witnesses intentional changes of food and lifestyle and stress reduction, sleep, all of that really makes a huge difference with your gut microbiomes. It's. Although food, like I said, is the biggest needle mover, there are other things that we can do to help with the microbial diversity.

Okay, good to know. So if we have back to back pregnancies and we are just like in the thick of young motherhood, all hope is not lost. We can continue to support our gut health and recover from the demands of pregnancy, postpartum, breastfeeding, all of that. Moving forward so that we actually feel good.

Yes. And also, I mean, your pregnancy gives you a chance to up your prebiotic fibers really kind of eat the right kinds of food because you are indeed passing on this. You know, if you don't want to repeat or of previous generations, you have in your power the ability to change your diet and make sure that your babies are getting all of the, I don't know, the, the prebiotic rich fibers that they, they really thrive on. I mean, when you think about the like, let's see, breastfeeding, for example, you know, breast milk has something called human milk oligosaccharides, you know, and they are really for the baby's health and for the production of a lot of important bacteria like Bifidobacterium and things like that. So just by breastfeeding you're giving that, your baby that big advantage. And if you're eating a lot of fermented foods and prebiotics and things like that during pregnancy and during lactation, even better because the quality of the milk also improves because you're going to have all of these beneficial bacteria going to bed for your baby as well as for you. You.

Perfect. So going along with this conversation, what are some signs of an imbalanced microbiome? Let's say, you know, I, it might be diff. Maybe it is different depending on the stage of motherhood. I'm not sure. But whether we're trying to conceive pregnant postpartum, what are some signs that our gut maybe needs some TLC and we need to kind of reassess how we're treating our body?

Again, that's a very good question because when you think about it, let's see, what's the best way to. I think maybe postpartum, you know, if there are listeners who are thinking, oh my gosh, I had, I was feeling depressed after my baby's birth. Postpartum depression is very common. There's a recent study which talks about the Mendelian randomizing and saw that there's a connection between postpartum depression and the switch in the microbiome. So they actually looked at the microbiome of people of women who were depressed versus who were not and they saw that they had different variety. But when they started adding all the right kinds of foods and things like that really helped because when we are, when someone is going, this is a topic that really interests me because I went through postpartum depression. So I'm sure there are many listeners who have also gone through this or are Just experiencing it at the time we were told you need to sleep more or just go through therapy or something like that. Imagine that the gut plays such a big role that when you start feeding it right and you're eating right, it can improve how you're feeling as far as your mood. That's a big hope for a lot of women. You know, we have, you know, who kind of feel like, gosh, I. I can't connect to my children or whatever. So that's. I think it's really important. So. And then going back to. What was the other question, Brooke?

Maybe some signs during pregnancy that our gut is struggling.

Okay. So the other thing that happens is the signs and symptoms are very different. Something at a gut level could be bloating. It could be constipation. Women go through. A lot of. Majority of women go through some kind of constipation issues. Diarrhea, it could be, you know, just feeling gassy, things like that at a gut level, it could be that anxiety, brain fog. Things like that could also be connected to the gut. Gestational diabetes that you had mentioned earlier could also show that there are more pathogenic bacteria and the growth of certain. Certain bacteria that are not serving the mother. So all of these things are pretty connected to the health of the mom and the baby.

Okay, good to know. So I know you specialize in ayurvedic nutrition. That's what I based my postpartum cookbook on. A lot of the recipes that are in there follow ayurvedic wisdom for helping moms heal. So what are some things that we could eat during pregnancy or postpartum to support our gut health?

Yeah, so definitely there are many ayurvedic herbs that have been studied or. For. For pregnancy and. Or for postpartum. I personally really work with clients postpartum, you know, not as much during pregnancy. A lot of questions that I often, often get are like, oh, I'm struggling with lactation, you know, not enough milk, or things like that. So I usually come up with a bunch of foods that are really beneficial for. For higher quality milk. So maybe we touch on that with that.

Yeah, that'd be great.

Yeah. So I think fenugreek as an herb is fantastic because it increases sweat production. And of course, the breast is a modified sweat gland, so that it really does help. Fennel seeds and flax are really high in phytoestrogens, so I've seen that. And of course, this is all anecdotal. Right? You know, there are some studies, but I See this in my practice that they, they really respond to it. Dill as a. Both as a seed and an. And an herb is fantastic. You know, most of us use dill as a little. It's that little feathery green that we add as a garnish on food. But when you actually use dill as an, like a bunch of like, like a dill, chop it up, put it in your omelette or saute garlic, something, within a few days, you see that lactation improving. I see this in a lot of women, you know, who increase that because they are really high in flavonoids and phytoestrogens as well. So really does help with lactation as well.

Okay, that's incredible. I love that there are simple options, right? It's not like this huge, complex meal or, you know, like this, this food that is gross or whatever. It's just really simple things that we can just add in here and there.

And even during pregnancy, I think if a, if a mom is like, oh, my gosh, what do I, what do I feed my body? So I'm not hurting my baby. You know, you can't really hurt your baby, you know, unless you're eating, I mean, drinking alcohol or doing something, you know, very drastic like that. But if you're eating really good whole foods with a lot of fiber in it, I think you're in good place. Good amounts of adequate protein, microbiome accessible carbohydrates. And by that I mean things that are complex. Whole grains, lentils, beans, a variety of vegetables and fruits. All of that, a rainbow of rainbow colors. All of that really will help increase that. Prebiotic fibers. And you want prebiotic fibers to grow healthy, beneficial bacteria. And sometimes I think we resort to, oh, let's just take a probiotic. Right. But that's just transitory at best. It's better to grow your own. And the best way to do it is by eating different kinds of food that nourish your gut microbiome.

I totally agree. Because, you know, it's one thing to have the bacteria, and then it's another thing to keep the bacteria there, there in the right amounts. Right. So focusing on the prebiotic foods that give that bacteria the fuel that it needs to do its job is going to be really important. I'd love to kind of go back to mental health for a little bit because a lot of people think that postpartum depression is just like a lack of serotonin, right? Oh, you're just not producing enough serotonin, so you're Sad. And we just need to spend more time with baby or go to talk therapy and it'll be better or you know, there's like, oh, sorry, like motherhood's really stressful. That's why you have anxiety or mom rage or whatever. So can we talk about the role that our gut health plays in our mental health as moms?

Yeah, I think really for moms to understand that 90% of serotonin is made in the gut. And when you don't have enough bacteria making, making the serotonin, that gut brain axis really takes a beating, you know. And a lot of the gut, your gut is sending most of the messages to your brain more than the other way around. So I think really kind of how do we, how do we make sure that we are getting enough serotonin? We look at precursors, tryptophan, things like that. What kind of foods are we eating? You know, to make sure that we are getting enough of these precursor foods as well is important. But you can eat all the food, the right foods. But if you don't have the bacteria that is producing it, then it's for not so always trying to make sure that we have like a whole food diet with a lot of prebiotic rich fibers. So we are producing different kinds of bacteria. So there's an important thing to remember is that if you are, let's say you have some kind of an illness or you have, you're traveling, you pick up a bug, whatever, and some of your bacteria are wiped out, what happens is our gut is so resilient that other bacteria will come, come in and say, hey, I got you, I got you back. I'm going to take care of this function for you. So we want that. So even with serotonin, that's what's happening. There are many serotonin producing bacteria, the same bacteria that produce short chain fatty acids and things like that. So having a diversity of these microbes really do make a difference. So I've seen this brook in my practice where clients with very low diversity, there's always a connection to the, to the brain and the mental. I mean, even before they talk about your gut issues, I see there's a, there's a mental aspect sector fit. They're anxious, they are, they come across as unhappy, they're not calm. You know, a lot of things are happening. So when we fix that diet and we, and from an ayurvedic perspective, and we've studied this with the microbiome, eating seasonally, eating the right kinds of food, having that Respecting the circadian rhythm, which is so difficult. I was on a podcast where the moment and gosh, am I messing everything up by not sleeping at night? You know, because sometimes our sleep is disrupted. As a young mother, you know, like we kind of sleep when our baby sleeps, but that's just a short time. And later, you know, when you're able to fix that circadian rhythm, all of that makes a huge difference in the, in the species richness. And I would say that research is showing us that even like one or two nights, nights of poor sleep does affect microbial balance. But it, like I said earlier, it's very resilient. And when you start taking care of it, it's back to being a resilient microbiome.

Imagine this. You're three months postpartum. Even though your baby doesn't sleep through the night, you wake up each morning energized for the day. And the afternoon slump is a thing of the past. You're able to remember important information, answer all your toddler's questions and clearly focus on the task at hand. Your milk supply is thriving and baby is growing well with little colic or digestive issues. Besides the occasional stressor, you're able to regulate your emotions and manage the demands of mom life. And most of all, your physical symptoms from pregnancy and childbirth have healed quickly and with minimal pain or complication. Believe it or not, this can be your reality. My first postpartum experience is what society calls normal. I had night sweats for weeks, my brain fog and fatigue were overwhelming. I developed many food sensitivities and anxiety ruled my life. Flash forward to now, just three months postpartum with my second baby. I'm the total opposite. I'm physically strong, mentally clear, emotionally strong, stable, and I can enjoy foods without restriction. The difference how I nourished my body during labor and the first six weeks postpartum. If you want to truly thrive in postpartum and kick those quote, normal symptoms to the curb, join the wait list to pre order my new postpartum recovery cookbook. Inside you'll find a six week recovery plan with 48 nourishing recipes and the science behind postpartum recovery. So you have all the tools you need to flourish. Head to today's show notes to get on the VIP list. Okay, so I love how you mentioned that even with all these disruptions, right? We have the sleep disruptions, we've got the, the trauma from pregnancy and childbirth and all these other things and stress and our gut is still resilient. But sometimes you Know, despite our best efforts, we're still going to see these symptoms of mental health or bloating, constipation, all these different things. Even if we are doing the right things, right, we are eating a diverse diet, we are trying to incorporate more fiber, all these different things. So if we do feel like something's off, but we're not quite sure what, and we want to do some investigating, what are some biomarkers that we could test for? What's some lab work that we could request? Are there functional tests that would help us? Like how can we kind of investigate to figure out what's going on so we can support our gut through these changes?

Wow, that's pretty. It's an interesting question. It's very bio individual. I think having just basic testing for everyone, you know, your CBC, differential, you know, your HBA1C to see where your blood sugar is, your cholesterol, all of that is just something that most of us do get, you know, do focus on. But if your, your question is more about, well, I'm having this gut issue. My doctor says everything is normal, but I don't, I feel anything but normal. What do I do with that? You know, that's pretty much what I went through because nothing on my blood work said anything me that I was off in any way or, you know, and my doctors kept saying, oh, everything is normal, but I didn't feel normal. So that would be where you start looking in inwards for wisdom. I start looking at like, is there something, do I have allergies to certain foods? You know, do I need to eliminate certain foods to see if I feel better? Should I be looking at my microbial composition? Do I have like an overload of pathogenic bacteria? You know, these are all questions that would naturally come up when there is a gut. Gut issue. Right. Which most doctors, if you go to gastroenterologists based on your symptoms, let's say someone has symptoms of like being super bloated, distended at night or and very, you know, gassy affected by certain kinds of food. The doctor might suspect sibo, which is affects at a small intestine level. But there could be just some of these bacteria from the colon that have trans. Translocated to the small intestine and causing some havoc. How does one find out? There's like a breath test to find out if you have sibo. IBS is a little bit more challenging because there could be, I could be a slew of things. You know, it's just like one label slapped on. If you're constipated, you have severe diarrhea or, you know, anxiety issues, you know, that are connected to ibs. I think for anyone who's curious, a good microbiome test, you know, although it's not diagnostic, we're not at that place yet to say, oh, this, the microbiome is telling you this is what's happening. But it can help you with your curiosity and kind of look at. If you choose a study that is like whole genome sequencing, for example, you have a good idea what's in your feces. It's a good representation of what's happening at the distal colon. And the live and dead microbes are pretty much what's in the distal colon. And there, if you look at your diversity, you get a good idea of your diversity. Do you have enough species richness, species evenness? Then you could find out how are you digesting your proteins versus carbohydrates? Are you producing vitamins? And you got bacteria producing vitamins. There are many things that are a good, you know, microbiome test, functional analysis tests can reveal. But if it's symptoms that we're chasing, that's a tough one, Brooke. You know, I would say it's so bio individual. I have many clients who come to me with gut issues and pretty much getting to know the client. Learning about your food habits, finding out, out what are they, what are they really sensitive to. Doing an elimination and being very, very careful about the elimination and then adding things systematically may reveal a lot of things about what's going on at a gut level.

Okay, so what I'm hearing from you is make sure we're doing the foundations first. So make sure we're eating a whole foods based diet. We're getting a lot of variety. We're focusing on, on prebiotic foods and fiber rich foods and things like that. And if we're still experiencing symptoms and we're still having problems, then we can look into testing. You mentioned stool testing. I know to a lot of mamas listening, it probably sounds gross. But you get so much information from a stool test, especially like if you have an overgrowth of H. Pylori or Candida, if you're low in lactobacillin, bacillus bacteria, all that stuff. So stool testing is great. And then I'm sure you could speak from experience, anu, that we probably shouldn't like DIY our way through fixing our gut health. If there are some symptoms like SIBO or whatever, we should be working with a practitioner who knows what they're doing. And how to interpret lab results, results to make sure that we're doing things the right way and taking care of our health. Is that correct?

I would 100 agree on that. Especially, you know, I think there's a lot of. Today I hear a lot of people going after pathogenic bacteria doing like, things like parasite cleansing and things like that. I think especially if you are nursing, you're a mom, you're doing all of these things, things, It's a tricky situation. I don't think that there's enough solid studies done on things like that. And I'm always looking for ways or methods that are backed by science and that's evidence based. So in my, my view, just having done the research for all these years is rather than chasing the pathogenic bacteria, why not increase the beneficial bacteria so there's balance in the gut? So to me, that makes more sense than trying to kill all the bad guys. Because the bad guys are not always the bad guys. They could be in small amounts, also the good guys. So it's really hard to kind of name or label bacteria as good or bad. It's not as simple as we think it is. But you did mention things like H. Pylori and you know, they have specific tests for H. Pylori, so that would be an easy one. But and then finding out what kind of symptoms, you know, do you have like acid reflux, you know, are you constipated, you know, are you having any pain? So the symptoms will, on its own, give you some idea of where, where to begin the journey in.

Okay, good to know. And mamas, if it seems overwhelming to you, just reach out to Anu. She's the expert here. She knows what she's doing. She's been doing this for a long time. So if you have any questions about our conversation today, please reach out to her and follow up if you are concerned about something. Also, if you hear weird sounds, that is my son. He has joined us for part of the interview. Hey, buddy, we're on camera.

Stop. A lot of hair.

Okay, so before we close, I'd love to ask you quickly about your book. Your book is called Flourish from Within and it offers a unique approach to gut health. Can you tell us more about that and how it might be helpful to us?

So I wrote this book. Almost like when I heard that two out of three Americans do not know the word microbiome, I said, this can't be. We really have to change that. So the book is part of my mission to change that. I think microbiome Health and taking care of the microbiome is no longer just a couple of studies. We have incredible, a wealth of information as to why this cannot be ignored. It's something that is so crucial for our immune health, for our digestive health, for our cardiovascular health health and really understanding microbial health at every stage in our life. You know, be it at birth, to puberty, to pregnancy, to post, to perimenopause, menopause, men changing their gut microbiome and aging microbiome keeps changing. Based on where you are in this journey called life and learning more about it and, and doing the right things for it at each stage of life is our responsibility. Taking care of them, I think, is, is, is our responsibility, you know, because if we start losing these species, our next generation is going to suffer from it. And we as moms and dads, we do so much for our children. I think this should be one of the things that we do for our kids. Kids making sure that, that they are indeed getting the diversity, they are getting fed the right way. Brooke, I saw this one ad where the father really wants to get away with his, with his partner to a trip. And the, the son is like saying, but I want to, I want to go with you. I want to go with you. And the father doesn't want that because he just really finally wants an escape, you know, and he says to the kids, kid, yeah, but this is a place that there's nothing but vegetables. There's even the ice cream is made with vegetables. And you know, he just goes on about how bad the situation is with all these veggies. And the kid says, oh, that's okay, I'm not coming.

Oh my gosh.

Well, I found that to be such an irresponsible. It really made me angry, you know, that, that you know, people laugh at things like this, but it's not funny because somebody who does not know about the microbiome may just say, ah, it's not a big deal. But it is a big deal. Having enough plant rich foods in your diet is really making a huge difference. So I think, you know, if anyone knows what I'm talking about. This is a long time ago. I, I don't know, it just really left that feeling of, no, we need to change this conversation. It's not about eat your broccoli. I'm going to give you a cozy cookie. It needs to be eat your broccoli. You know, this is important.

So yeah, I love that. And your book has recipes in the back too, right?

Yeah. So the first Book. The first part of the book, the Section 1, is all about the microbiome. And I kind of walk through the different stages, be it pregnancy, puberty, you know, we talk about NCDs, non communicable diseases and the microbiome. Microbiome, probiotics, prebiotics, all that good stuff. And I'm hoping, very easy to understand language. And the second section is a diet that I propose just for feeding the microbiome. We all have affinities to certain kinds of food socially and what we grew up with. So I really don't touch on that because there's enough said on protein, low protein. I say pick the protein of your choice, but feed your microbiome with this kind of a diet, which is really plant friendly. And then finally, the last section is about, you know, recipes. Easy to easy to use recipes. The one thing I did, one of the reasons I did a lot of the standard American diet back back in the day was because of convenience. So I kind of take the same mantra and I say convenience leads to consistency. So a lot of the recipes are formatted in the sense that you don't have to sit there and read recipes. You say, eat this, add this, add this. This is a formula. So you can kind of replicate that every single day without having to open a book and figure out how much of this or how much of that, because who has the time?

I love that. I was. When you were saying that, I was thinking about how we, we build our kids meals. We choose produce. It's like a fruit or vegetable. We choose carb and then a protein or a fat source that are usually a combo. So like, our toddler's plate might have Cheerios and a cheese stick and grapes, and we just follow the same formula every time. We're just like looking through the pantry, looking through the fridge, being like, okay, where's the carb? Where's the produce? Where's the protein and the fat? And we're just building plates that way. Um, so I love that you created a formula for us as adults to make it more convenient to nourish our gut and make sure that we're really being mindful of what we're eating without stressing about it and without feeling like we have to be this fancy chef or, you know, we have to have a million things on our plate to achieve that. So that's amazing.

And that is so true, because I don't really think of myself as a fancy chef. I think of myself as a health chef. You know, I mean, my focus in the kitchen is how do I feed my microbes. So my, my, my chef journey is really based on that. It has nothing to do with anything else. But I think the one thing, Brooke, if I can finish off with this one comment that I have about young mothers and I do get asked this question a lot. It's like when do I start start feeding my baby solid foods? And there's enough research that tells us that starting too early may not be a good thing and it could lead to a lot of allergies and things like that. Starting around five to six months is a good time. So starting your and then at the same time being supported. Supported by breastfeeding. These two seem to really do a very good job of protecting and increasing beneficial bacteria in the child. So I just thought I'll share that as well.

Good to know. Thank you so much for that. Okay, tell us when your book is being published so we can grab it and read it and then how we can connect with you and learn more from. From you.

Yeah, so my book is out the spring and it's going to be available where all books are sold. It's also I. You can also order it and right now it's on pre order but pretty soon it's going to be out on my website as well. And my website is 9Arms of Wellness.com and if anyone's interested in working with me or doing a functionality analysis test or postpartum they want to just lose weight and live at the ideal weight then that's another program that I offer and everything is there's more information on the website nine arms of wellness.com and you can follow me on Instagram again nine arms of wellness.

Okay, perfect. Well I have one more question for you. It's a question I ask all my guests guests and it doesn't have to be related to our conversation but it could. So Anu, we would love to know what is a non negotiable to you to living a well nourished life.

For me the non negotiable I think would be self care. Beautiful 100%. And self care for me could be anything. Right? This morning is a beautiful day in San Diego. I decided my self care is just spending about 15 to 20 minutes outside in the sun. So every day I choose something where I put myself front and forward and it sets me up for success for the whole day because then I'm able to give my clients, my friends, my family when I take care of me.

That's perfect. I preach that all the time. Self care isn't saying me first, it's saying me too. We deserve to have the same things that we are giving to everyone else. So that's beautiful. Anu, thank you so much for joining us today. It was a pleasure to have you here and best of luck with your book release.

Thanks a lot. It was a pleasure. Yeah.

All right, mamas, we'll see you in the next episode. And that's the end of another episode. I hope you loved today's topic as much as I did. You can find all of today's show notes and details@thewellnourishedmama.com podcast as well as all of my recipes and resources on the blog. If you found this episode helpful, inspirational or motivational, please leave a five star rating and review so other mamas can discover the podcast too. And don't forget to hit the subscribe button so you don't miss any new episodes. As always, you're amazing, mama. Don't forget it. I'll see you in the next episode. Love you.