Ep. 62: Feeding Your Gut - The Role of Fermented Foods, Fiber, and Plant-Based Protein with Anu Simh

I ask myself, how am I going to feed my microbes tomorrow? Literally, the conversation I have before I go to bed and then I soak some beans. You know, I'm saying, okay, tomorrow in my instapot, I'm going to put these black beans or red beans or garbanzo. I make a chana masala or, you know, black bean soup. So I'm thinking ahead about how can I be of support and value to my microbes. So that's another way to look at it, I think, you know, it helps me, you know, just to kind of really think about them as these are my guests and if they are living inside me, I need to take care of them, you know, so how do I do that? You know, I'm putting some thought into it rather than just thinking about our palette.

I love that. So I think of that too. I don't do it every night when, whenever I choose to eat something, I ask myself, is this going to be good for my gut microbes? Is this going to be good for my gatekeepers? And so not all the time. There's sometimes I'm, you know, drinking something or doing something that I'm like, well, this might not be the best, but the majority of the time I eat to feed my good gut microbes. Welcome to Stronger Bones Lifestyle Podcast. I am Debbie Robinson, your host and guide on your Stronger Bones lifestyle journey on Stronger Bones Lifestyle podcast. My next guest is Anu Sim. She is a national board certified functional health coach. She focuses on weight loss and gut health with her clients. She is a plant based chef that teaches her clients how to use food as medicine using scientific evidence based methodologies and research. She is writing a book called Flourish and works privately with women all over the world to improve their gut health and to focus on blood sugar regulation and weight management. Anu, welcome to Stronger Bones Lifestyle podcast. I am looking so forward to speaking with you today.

Thank you so much, Debbie. It's such a pleasure to be here and having a. I'm looking forward to a wonderful conversation about things that you and I are both passionate about.

Yes. And so the intention for me in having you on today is that you focus a lot in the work that you do on a plant forward diet and on gut health. And these are two really important areas I think for women to that there's a lot of confusion, a lot of, a lot they want to know about or learn about. So this is why I wanted to have you on so we could both discuss the importance of plants or plant rich plant forward diet and the importance of feeding your gut to optimize health.

Absolutely. And there are such absolutes in nutrition today, you know, and I kind of believe that if you look at diet. Yeah, get whatever protein works for you is fine. Just include a lot of plants to help with your micronutrient polyphenol intake. Seems like the, the right move for all of us, you know, just getting enough plants in our diet. And that's something that I'm very passionate about through my research for the book and which really honestly started with like how just looking at studies about the microbiome and a plant forward diet, there was so many studies that it just got me excited about o what if I wrote a book about a plant forward diet and the health of few microbes? So.

Right, okay, so let's start there. So there's so much out there about gut and gut health and gut health awareness. I remember in the early 2000s when I first started hearing the term leaky gut, you know, that was something people would laugh at. Yet I think it's much more mainstream now. We're understanding that the gut has a very strong correlation to health. I would say in the west here you're going to hear everything begins in the gut. As a yoga therapist and someone who really believes strongly in yogic philosophy, I'm going to say everything begins in the mind because it's the person that's choosing to live the lifestyle that's either healthy or unhealthy. But from a physical perspective, I believe the gut to be such an integral part of the work I do, which is bone health. The work you do working with women, often with weight loss and blood sugar regulation. So, so let's discuss you. You're creating a book called Flourish, which we can't wait to have that book come out and read that book. So let's talk about the gut and about the microbiome and what is why it is important that we feed the microbiome what it needs to flourish.

Yeah. And I think first of all, really understanding the, the connection we have with these microbes, I think of them as forever guests. They're within us, they're, they're it just really understanding that this is a symbiotic partnership that we share with the microbes. You know, you feed them, you take care of them, they reward you by producing some really healthy compounds like short chain fatty acids, helps you with like vitamin synthesis and a host of physiological processes in the body working against diseases like type 2 diabetes, parathyroid, you know, estrogen, you know, hormone Production, stuff like that. We had no idea even 15 years ago that the microbes were such a big part of our life. You know, and I don't want to go as far as saying that it's like you scratch my back, I scratch yours. That's a very simplistic way of looking at microbes. But I think I would feel comfortable saying that take care of them and you will flourish.

Yeah, I mean, we are 90% bacteria, only 10% human. So I'm going to say that they run the show more than us. And I wonder if you feel this way when I run stool labs, because we both run stool labs on the ladies we work with. When, when I have somebody that has a lot of either symptomology, so a lot of gas, bloating, pain, inflammation, and in my case, osteoporosis, or even if there's a lot of mental, emotional like anxiety or depression, I actually feel like I see that in the microbes.

Absolutely.

You either see a lot of inflammation with the overgrowth or you see the immune triggered, the immune system triggered with the markers that we see in a stool lab.

Yeah. And, and although these labs, you know, like a functional analysis of a micro, it's, it's not diagnostic in nature, I still feel like there are certain things that the, the microbiome analysis test tells us that really give us a kind of a clue on what's happening. You know, for example, ratios of our important microbes like Bacter and Firmicutes, just like low numbers of Prevotella is an immediate clue that maybe my client is not taking in enough. The plant forward thing that I spoke about, maybe they're not getting enough dietary fibers, not enough diversity in their diet. And the diversity really comes from the plant kingdom. Your microbes don't care if you're eating a camel or a buffalo. Protein is protein, but your micronutrients, your polyphenols of that is coming from the diversity of the plants that you consume. You know, let's say you had like broccoli, even just maybe just diversing that saying, having a Chinese broccoli, going to the Chinese market and eating some wonderful produce from there, going to an Indian market and trying out there. That is the kind of diversity that your microbes are looking for. They really thrive on that. And they produce more short chain fatty acids. They build and more of them. And you have more of the alpha diversity and the beta diversity that we want in your microbes.

So I want to speak about feeding the good gut microbes because you mentioned A couple of things here and one when I interviewed a pharmacist one time and we spoke about gut health so deeply. I don't know if you know Dr. Grace Lou, she's with the Gut Institute, and we spoke so deeply that that lady said to me, I couldn't understand what you were saying. So you've mentioned some things here and I want to kind of put this down to A, an 8 year old level because that seems to be where most of us can understand.

Yeah.

So short chain fatty acids to kind of make this understandable for people. The gut has a single cell wall between your outside world and your inside world. From mouth to anus, outside world. Once it crosses the barrier, goes inside you, then it becomes you or can become you. So we have that single cell layer and we have a double mucus layer. That is your fortress, that is your protection, that is what we want to maintain. This is where that term leaky gut comes from. If there's a compromise in that. So when you're talking about short chain fatty acids and the species that are creating the short chain fatty acids, they are the mucus producers, they are the protectors. And so you're speaking about diet. I'd love to speak about diet. And how can we eat to make sure that we are supporting the microbes that we know with all the studies and the research now we know them. So you mentioned that there's some that are more bone health protective.

Yeah.

And, and also those short chain fatty acid producers. So let's talk about that, let's talk about diet. What are some of the contents? And you did mention a little bit when you were speaking about diversifying. Say for example, broccoli has nutrients that are going to feed them. But when we talk about that plant forward diet, plant rich diet, what are the. I know you, you've, you've kind of gone over it with the, in the antioxidants, polyphenols and all that stuff. But let's start first with protein, because protein is the, is a building block, the amino acids that build everything. And I think there's a lot of confusion out there. People ask me all the time, how many grams of protein do I need.

To get a day. Yeah.

So what is the research showing there?

And that is such a loaded question because it depends on person ingesting the protein, the age, gender, you know, the amount of exercise that you do per day. You know, all of that is important to decide how much protein a sedentary person does not need as much for the protein synthesis. As much as someone who's active, you know, an older person may need more, you know. Now researchers is coming showing us that sarcopenia, which is a real thing, you know, muscle loss, you know, added protein is good. The one thing that's interesting for me is like there's a huge confusion about animal protein versus plant protein. I'm saying there's a role for both. You know, there's pro. The protein digestibility of animal protein is higher, as we know from a lot of studies, but it also comes with some negative ramifications of too much animal protein. Right. So what I tell my clients is research is showing that do a bit of both. You know, I mean, do your animal protein for all of your essential amino acids. If the idea of combining proteins and getting all of these essential amino acids from plant based food is a little bit more challenging for some people. You know, someone who's been plant based all their life, that's they know how to combine foods. But that's why this whole drastic change from eating animal protein to becoming vegan or vegetarian needs to be done with some planning. If not, it just fails. And you hear about many people just saying, I tried it, it didn't work for me. And now I'm back to being eating animal protein. So that's one thing, you know. But from a microbial standpoint, fuel for them is dietary fiber, number one fuel. And the number two would be. There was a research from Christopher Gardner and Stan, and they actually compared fiber intake versus prebiotics, like, you know, like kimchi and things like that. They saw an immediate shift in the gut and gut health with adding kimchi and, you know, prebiotics, kefir and things like that. So that's one thing to really, that's an easy shoe in. Anyone can say, hey, let me just add a little bit of sauerkraut or kimchi into my diet. And that's doable for all of us. And dietary fiber, we as Americans don't take in enough fiber, you know, especially women, we struggle with constipation and so many other gut issues because fiber is poor, the intake is poor. And how we absorb it is also a challenge because if you don't have the microbes to digest it for you, because you've always been on a diet that is low in fiber, it's going to take some time to build these microbes, get them to digest because they are doing the digesting. We're not. It's going undigested to your colon. And that's where the microbes attack your fiber and say, hey, this is fuel for me. I'm eating these fibers. And, and that helps produce these short chain fatty acids. Not to say with protein, you can't do that. Yes, even when you take an animal protein or plant protein, you are producing short chain fatty acids. But some of these animal proteins, when you take too much of, with a side, not so desirable side effect of toxins like hydrogen sulfide or ammonia or too much petrozole and these are toxic to our gut and our intestinal flora. So we need to keep an eye on that and to balance it.

So the animal protein, the, the aspects that you just mentioned, are those toxins that the animals were exposed to like let's say eating pesticide laden grass or is that part of the process metabolically of our body breaking down protein?

I think it is just more about how the gut microbes receive the protein, do the microbial fermentation. We don't know. I mean we do know that things like glyphosate and pesticides. You're absolutely right, Debbie. Do affect the micro microbes, but the studies are not really completely out on how that happens. So.

Okay, well, I love that you just said that because this is what I tell people. They ask me questions and I say we don't know.

Yeah.

Who is following the steak in your mouth down the esophagus into your stomach? Was it digested properly? Do you have enough stomach acid? Do you have H. Pylori infection? Do you have other things that are infecting that? Did the contents that went into your small intestine after your stomach, was it in the right format? It needed to be in. So there's just such a journey that food takes from mouth to small intestines where 80 to 90% of absorption takes place that really, I think digestion is really the overlooked aspect. And when we eat plants, when we eat fiber, when we eat whole foods, the, the all of the ingredients to help support digestion exist. You've got more water in there, you've got enzymes, there's more enzymatic aspects to plants and maybe that exists to some extent in animals. Yet the process of being alive to being not alive anymore is much longer when it's an animal. You're not just, you know, taking that animal right there from life to now. I can prepare it. Whereas the vegetables and the fruits are much closer to being connected to their life source energy of root system and being alive.

I completely agree and from a philosophical standpoint and what I believe I am plant based, but I also believe that food is very bio individual and so some people may do much better with a little bit of animal protein, you know, and it is not. And so I don't feel comfortable taking a stance on that. You know, I feel like if we just let people just know that add a lot of plants on your, make your plate like a rainbow colored beauty to, you know, to just admire and love and take in before you actually start eating it, that's a good start for all of us, you know, and so there's enough room for some protein like and that could be anything from 0.8 to grams per kg or some other people who are into high protein diets are saying we need a lot more than that. And that's something any one of we can research for ourselves. I always say let's try it as a experimental goal. How do we know our bodies are unique? Let's say you are upping your strength training routine, lifting a lot of weights and you feel kind of, gosh, I need some more protein because I'm feeling really tired. Then you try that for a week or two to see what does that, what, how does that help you? You know, if you're eating more protein, do you feel stronger? Do you feel, you feel better about it? Then you make choices based on your own body rather than just what someone on Instagram is telling you to do. Because you're unique, your body is unique. Like I come from an AIC background and we say Ahara was food and food is everything. It's not just what you put into your mouth but it's your thoughts, you, all the processes, how you take in the world, all of that is Ahara of food.

So like consumption, is that like consumption? Yeah. And we are consumers. I and so if you're eating and you're watching the news or you're having a horrible conversation, you're consuming bad news with good food and your body's going to be in a fight flight mode and it's not going to digest. Yeah, the protein 1 is a really confusing one. I, I haven't had red meat since I was 20, but I do eat some animal protein and I try to make sure it's as, you know, ethically sourced and clean as possible. And I think that there's times that I feel that I need more than others. There's just a lot of confusion out there about how much protein and when they start to tell everyone they need one gram per pound and 130 pound female is going to try to get 130 grams. That's really, really hard for those that prefer to be plant forward or plant rich or even vegans or vegetarians to try to get that amount. So it just gets really, really confusing. And I think what you're saying is to go with how you feel and to use intuitive eating, which is a really great way to go.

And it's beyond that. It is like really making goals for yourself and saying, think, okay, this week I am lifting more weights. How much do I need to support that? That seems like a more logical approach than just saying, oh, I need one gram per one kilogram of. I mean, who comes up with these things? Because they keep changing it anyways, right? I mean, it keeps changing. Every day I hear something new about protein. And I feel like as far as research, Debbie, you know, protein, what they've seen is even if you did have a lot of animal protein, okay, let's say there are two people. One person eats straight up animal protein, no fibers. Another person eats the same amount of animal protein, but is also eating like dietary fibers, resistant starch, beta glucans, all the things that nourish your body, nourish your microbes. The differences are just amazing. You know, the person who's doing the protein along with all of these side stars, they don't have the same kind of problems that someone who is just eating just animal protein and no fiber. So I think the big takeaway is hopefully for your listeners as well, is up your fiber, you know, and the fi and fiber comes from the plant kingdom. And make sure that you are eating different sources like beta glucans come from like things like oat bran. You know, switch it up. You know, if you're having oatmeal every day, just say, I'm just gonna add some oat bran to it. You know, resistant starch. You know, you could boil and cool your potatoes or your rice to up your resistant starch in these foods. And that can be a good chew in for people who like rice. You know, arsenic is a different story. You know, it's taking on different avatar right now, you know, and. Yeah, and up increasing your greens, cruciferous veggies, cabbage, kale, arugula. All of that is just, you know, ultimately you have to remember that your microbes are also making helping you with folate, you know, all your K and B vitamins, bile acids. It's helping you with the synthesis of so many different things. So feeding them makes sense.

Yeah, that's probably the biggest thing is what you're talking about now. And if I think about all the stool labs that I run and working with women to heal their guts, to heal their bones, or to focus more on building better quality bones, because quality bones are the ones that are not going to fracture most of the nutrients that are required for bones. So I interview. One of my favorite people to interview is, is Nick Burch, and he's a spinal surgeon. He, I don't know if you've heard of the REMS test, which is an ultrasound looking at bone density or bone quality or toughness, as he says. So last time I saw him, he Talked about the 10 important nutrients for bone health. And he made a chart himself that was color coded. And he put all of those nutrients and color coded them. And the majority of the nutrients that are needed for bone health health are all from fruits, vegetables, nuts and pulses, which are seeds. I believe that's where most of the nutrients to build bones are from. And then of course, there's protein and that protein topic. The, the thing that I'd like to get through is nobody knows the answer. There is no definitive answer because everybody is individual.

Yes, you.

High animal protein by itself can be acidic, and acidity is a root cause of bone loss and many other diseases. And so really, instead of thinking about what shouldn't I eat? If we start to focus on what we should eat and when we're talking about gut health, then, you know, whether you're trying to lose weight or you're trying to have better bones or whatever your goals are, we're thinking about our gut and we want to feed our gut. The things that your gut loves and needs are mostly in the plant kingdom.

Absolutely. And you were so spot on about the, the bone mineral density. And that comes minerals like phosphorus, calcium, magnesium. I mean, look, look at all the plant rich foods. They're all high in minerals, you know, and vitamins. So it makes sense to up your plants on your plate. And I think maybe this is a western thing. We don't eat a lot of plants in the morning. I mean, breakfast is eggs, breakfast is bacon, breakfast is, you know, I mean, but, and I'm not saying eggs are the enemy. You could have like eggs, but why not add some sauteed greens into it, handful of nuts, you know, seeds, pumpkin seeds, sunflower seeds, you know, those are all easy ways that we can increase fiber, increase the micronutrients in our food. It doesn't have to be rocket science. It doesn't have to be like, oh my gosh, I need to, to follow a protocol, you know, and Then your body is. Does the magic, and it'll tell you that, yeah, you feel better, you feel more energy. I mean, especially with that, you know, spike and crash of your blood sugar in the afternoon. Adding these things make a lot of, in my opinion, a lot of sense.

Yeah. I love that you say that, because when I. I've been to India twice. I've been to Bali quite a few times. And what I was amazed at, especially in India, because we ate, I. I went there to study yoga therapy, and when we had our buffet meals at all of our hotels we were at, I felt like it looked the same. Breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

Yeah.

And it was my. I don't know if that's when I first realized that we here, we eat differently and we eat a lot of sugary stuff. Maybe there was a couple of different things. It was like Italy, like little rice donuts in. In the breakfast buffet, there was still a lot of the other nutrients, the vegetables and all that. So.

Yeah, and all of them, Debbie, sorry, but like Italy or those, they're all fermented, you know, and lactobacillus, you know, natural fermentation, like sourdough bread. Those are amazing for your gut, you know, so try to look for fermented foods from different cultures, like Indian food, as fermented food, like Korean food, as kimchi, like African, Ethiopian food has some wonderful fermented options and sauerkraut, you know, those are all easy ways that we can get fermenting. Fermented foods is like my number one to change the gut. And it has to be done very slowly, especially if you have things like ibd, ibs, you know, you may just respond poorly to fiber. And because you kind of starved your gut for so long, because anything that you eat, you have a problem with it. You just. I mean, it makes sense, right? You just want to not eat it. But there's a way to increase it very slowly, judiciously. And my dream for my clients with gut issues is like, eventually they're having, like, high oral tolerance. They're eating a variety of foods, and they don't have to say, oh, I don't do beans, I don't do this, I don't do that, because my gut cannot handle it. I mean, that's starving our gut microbes. And. And there's no way one can flourish when you've got microbes or non flourish.

Okay, so. So give us some steps on how to slowly introduce the things that are the most important when it comes to rebalancing and feeding your Gut microbes so they can flourish. What are your. Give me some step by step. What are something. You mentioned a couple handful of nuts and things. Breakfast. But so can you give us some steps on how to start feeding your gut to optimize health?

So this Debbie, really depends on who are we talking about. Are we talking about a healthy person who can eat anything? Are we talking about someone who's just recovering from IBS or sibo something?

Yes. So not a totally healthy person. Let's take, I don't know in your experience, I mean we both work as health coaches so not every people that are coming to us have issues. So let's take the 50 plus female where maybe there's some bone loss, there's muscle loss, there's digestion loss which is part of what happens with aging. Not a lot of attention to the gut. Up until now. There are some symptoms in terms of lack of energy, constipation because that's what a large percentage of the population that I'm working with, maybe not so much ibd, IBS symptomology in terms of a lot of gas and a lot of bloating. But let's just say somebody who has a, hasn't yet taken too much care of their gut. They're not super symptomatic, but probably have some constipation, ish challenges and maybe a diagnosis or two, some thyroid issues, cholesterol issues. So that's what I see is like the typical average woman who hasn't yet started to focus on gut health. So what are some ways to start from that place?

So that sounds like a typical client who comes to me was definitely really low in greens. It's not eating a lot of veggies and maybe eating like things like potato, corn and quick but nothing other besides that. So I would start someone like that with like, like a breakfast smoothie, you know, because the main reason is they, their oral tolerance is really low. You know, I mean they have this gag effect of eating too many greens. They're not able to handle it. Kale or any of the hardy greens require some chewing. So if you're not ready to do that, the best way to do it is I call it my anu smoothie and I'm happy to share a recipe. You know, and we add things like green banana, flour, lots of different kinds of greens, moringa, you know, which is fantastic for your gut health. There are actually studies done on how moringa really helps your intestinal flora and a good like a plant based milk or coconut water to to do the liquid part of the, the smoothie and berries, you know, I also have my clients add things like amla, you know, which is like, you know, gooseberries and highest on the auric scale for antioxidants. So little things like that, which are easy, you can make a concoction, put it into a smoothie, start your day with a, with a good smoothie. So at least you have the first, your breakfast down with lots of good nutrients. And then the lunch can be a volumetric salad, you know, something that's just loaded with lots of greens and nuts and seeds, avocado, you know, good fats and then the protein of your choice, you know, and make room for the protein. But make, make the greens. The stars of your lunch and dinner can be whatever you wish. So that way you've had two meals that are rich in micronutrients, rich in phytochemicals, polyphenols, and you will start seeing a difference in how you feel within three weeks. And that I say with a lot of confidence because in my practice I've seen this client after client telling me, oh, I'm taking less ibuprofen, I'm feeling a lot better, I have more energy, you know, and that's not happening in vacuum. It's happening because you're feeding your body the right kind of nutrients and your body is always looking, when it's looking at food, it's looking for two things, it's looking for proteins, looking for the supporting cost. So when you start feeding it all these wonderful things, you are less apt to look for ultra processed, hyper palatable foods. So that's a great way to even balance craving, you know. So I don't know if that answers.

Your question, but yeah, it does, it does. And I think that that's what people sometimes women tell me, just tell me what to eat. Yeah, they just tell me what to eat. So yeah, a smoothie in the morning that you can load with a lot of the good gut healing foods and also bone foods. So that's a great idea. And then the salad, making a salad with all the different accompaniments and I would say a stir fry is also like if you're going to go for cooked versus raw, stir fries can help. But that's focusing on bringing what you bring in instead of what do I have to take out. And so adding those is, is a really great way for people to do that. Yeah. And then the side effects if you do start doing that is that you typically have more energy, you have regular bowel movements Potentially sleep better, have less inflammation and pain, and you lose weight.

Yeah. And it's a. It's a very natural way of losing weight rather than, oh, I need to do this, I need to do that. People lose weight because of what they add into their diet. That's kind of protecting them, supporting them. Sweet potatoes, you know, all the starchy vegetables that if you're really on a weight loss journey, maybe just have a small amount of it, you know, but it still. It's great fiber, you know, so you're always looking at. This is how I look at it. Debbie, every night I ask myself, how am I going to feed my microbes tomorrow? Literally, the conversation I have before I go to bed and then I soak some beans, you know, I'm saying, okay, tomorrow in my instapot, I'm going to put these black beans or red beans or garbanzo. I make a chana masala or, you know, black bean soup group. So I'm. I'm thinking ahead about how can I be of support and value to my microbes? So that's another way to look at it, I think, you know, it helps me, you know, just to kind of really think about them as these are my guests, and if they are living inside me, I need to take care of them, you know, so how do I do that, you know, and putting some thought into it rather than just thinking about our palates.

I love that. So I think of that, too. I don't do it every night, but every when, whenever I choose to eat something, I ask myself, is this going to be good for my gut microbes? Is this going to be good for my gatekeepers?

Yeah.

And so not all the time. There's sometimes I'm, you know, drinking something or doing something that I'm like, well, this might not be the best, but the majority of the time I eat to feed my good gut microbes.

But it sounds like you're aware of it, and the awareness is like the number one thing. Even knowing that this works, this doesn't work for my body. That's a huge takeaway for us, right? I mean, most of us go through life not really knowing that, and that comes from not really paying. Paying attention to ahara or food, you know?

So, yeah, so it's just really confusing. There's a lot of confusion out there. The whole thing about oxalates, I know we didn't talk about that. That I have other people I interview, we talk about oxalates. The real key thing to know about oxalates is that Oxalates can be managed if you have the correct species that manage oxalates in your gut.

Yeah.

So with all the other degradation of the gut microbes and the lack that we have, that's also going to be where the oxalate conversation is. So if you have a healthy gut, your healthy gut can manage oxygen, oxalate.

And take care of it. And then even cooking, how do you cook certain things? Like, for example, we talked about beans and you know, how do you cook your beans? What kind of spices do you add to it so you're able to digest the beans? Because beans can cause flatulence in some people and that's usually an indication you don't have the microbes to do the work for you. But you will eventually, you know. But in the meantime, you can add things like the Mexican episode to that really helps with digestion. You know, bay leaves, you know, cloves, things like that can really help with when you're cooking your beans.

Yeah, I'm amazed. I've. I take cooking classes everywhere I go all over the world and I'm, I'm a really skilled cook. I've gone to professional cooking school. And what I'm amazed about when I would learn in India, when I learned this about the foods, there's a lot of legumes that are in the dishes, a lot of dal, and the spices that are used for a lot of the different recipes actually have digestive or supportive properties.

Yeah.

So this, there's this intelligent partnering of spices in the dishes that help to break down and digest the legumes that are in those dishes.

It's so smart and it's been used so much. Our grandparents, like, for example, a simple thing is like a cabbage stir fry. Right. Cabbage is a humble vegetable, but it really contains a cruciferous veggie and has a lot of a healthy compound called glucoraphanin. And then when you add mustard or radish to cabbage, it has a compound called myrosinase. And when you eat it and you bite into cabbage and you produce an anti cancer compound called sulforaphane that is fabulous for your body and for your gut microbes. Now how did my grandmother know that she needed to add mustard to cabbage? That is just simply, for me, it's mind blowing. Like they knew so much, you know, they would add like fennel seeds, for example, is a real, it's amazing for nitric oxide production. It's, it's fabulous. You know, we eat it like in Indian restaurants after a meal as a Breath freshener, but it does so much beyond that, you know, So I use fennel in everything. Yeah.

And it's really probably not just for the breath, like whatever is in the. There's three things, right, that when you, you at the. In an Indian restaurant, you'll get this little handful that you eat, we say for breath, yet it's also to support digestion.

It supports digestion and also keeps your cravings at bay. For example, if you have like a handful of fennel with just maybe one or two rock sugar candies, like a small one, that is enough to satiate you, and you're not going looking for candy or chocolate or something like that. So it really does work. Yeah.

So interesting. Yeah. I'm. I'm amazed. Well, you, you have the ancestry of India and your grandmother with her cooking. I feel this way in all the cultures around the world. There's things that we used to eat before meals, chew on, suck on. There's behaviors that people had or even behaviors after a meal, going for a walk. In Ayurveda, you don't drink too much liquid with your meal, so you don't dilute the natural acids, the stomach acids that are necessary for digestion. So I try to tell people, what's your ancestry? Like what. What did your people do and start to think about? And even just the simple act of sitting down and eating, taking the time out to eat, not watching TV when you're eating. So supporting digestion really important. Yeah. Because that's a big factor. And you're speaking about the plant forward diet, which is going to be supportive of gut health and of digestion of the foods that support the good gut microbes.

And the other thing, Debbie, is the order in which you eat your food can also make a huge difference. I don't know if your clients really go through blood sugar issues. Juice. Most of us do today, even just having a big salad, then eating your protein and finally eating the carb of your choice really helps balance your blood sugar.

So, yeah, blood sugar regulation is a real key to many diseases and disease states today, for sure. Yeah. Okay. Well, I think that, that this is good. This is enough information for today. I'm having these thoughts of, oh, wow, we should do a cooking class together and we should like, speak more about this.

We can make dosa.

Oh, I would love. I love dosa. I don't even know how to make dosa. I'd love to make dosa and coconut chutney.

Yeah. Oh, that'd be a Greek cooking class. Yeah. Okay.

So that that's to be continued so that that'll happen at some point. Okay, Anu, thank you so much. I'm going to have in the show notes information about your book coming out. And then if you could share that smoothie recipe that you spoke about, that would be a nice thing for ladies to be able to download.

Absolutely.

After. And of course, men, if they're listening as well, to be able to download. So thank you so much for coming and sharing your wisdom with us today.

Thank you. It was such a pleasure. Yeah.

Thank you so much for listening to Stronger Bones lifestyle podcast. Bone loss is not an inevitable part of aging. We don't have to just wait for it to happen. There is so much that you can do and that is what you will learn each week on the show. Go to my website, debirobinson.com if you want more information about what was shared in today's episode. At the bottom of this episode in the show notes, there will be links.

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