Optimizing The Gut Microbiome with Anu Simh

Welcome to Between Two Lips, a podcast dedicated to all things pelvic health for women. I'm your host Kim Bopny, the vagina Coach, and I am excited to share with you information from leading pelvic health professionals from around the world, stories from women at all life stages who have faced struggles and successes. And of course, I share a little about my own pelvic health journey as well. There is too much silent suffering associated with the female pelvis and I am on a mission to change that. It's time we talk openly about a part of the body that deserves a whole lot more attention than it gets. Join me each week for casual and candid conversations that will both inform and inspire you to optimize your pelvic health for life. I'd like to thank the sponsor of today's episode, Feel Amazing Vulva and Vaginal Moisturizer Studies show that moisturizing with hyaluronic acid is an effective treatment for vaginal dryness. Vaginal dryness is most commonly associated with menopause. When we reach menopause, estrogen goes for a steep decline and so does hyaluronic acid. Hyaluronic acid is a naturally occurring molecule that our body makes on its own, keeping our eyes, mouth, skin, joints and vaginas naturally lubricated. But our body's hyaluronic acid starts to decline in our 30s and 40s and then more significantly post menopause. There are other reasons that can lead to vulva and vaginal dryness, including the birth control pill, postpartum overuse of pads and panty liners, certain cancer treatments, and some medications and health conditions. The Feelamazing Vulva and Vaginal Moisturizer is made from hyaluronic acid and vitamin E to restore natural moisture back into the skin cells of the vulva and vaginal wall. It was researched and developed by BC based pharmacists in collaboration with vagina owners age 35 and up and my good friend Shirley Weir over at Menopause Chicks Feel Amazing can be purchased online without a prescription. This means you can take control of your vaginal health and apply the moisturizer as often as your own unique needs without having to consult a doctor first. I use Feel Amazing, have been using it for several years and absolutely love it. I put it on right after my morning shower and it truly does feel amazing. No mess, no goo, just tissue support and health that I absolutely love. I've got a link in the show notes for you so you can get started taking care of your vulva. Vaginal Health by moisturizing your vagina today.

Welcome to another episode of Between Two Lips. I'm your host, Kim Bopni, the vagina coach. In this week's episode, I am joined by a new sim and her and I met through a business conference, a business mastermind that we are part of. Throughout the conversation, I was calling her doctor. She's actually doctor. I apologize if I'm not anew. She is a board certified functional health coach and she specializes in the gut and the gut microbiome. You know, this is a topic that I love having on the show. I love hearing all the different perspectives and hearing from all the different people who work with people with gut issues. It's such a challenge for so many people in my community and I think just general in the world, we're not pooping as well as we should. So we talked about things like the gut bone health connection. We talked about circadian rhythm, we talked about what the changes happen with the menopause transition. We talked about all sorts of things in terms of building and maintaining optimal gut health. So let's jump into the episode. Hi Dr. Sim, thank you so much for joining me. I'm looking forward to the conversation all about gut health and microbiome. This is, it's a topic that is the one that I talk about the most. Well, not that I talk about, but I have the most guests talking about the gut and microbiome and constipation because it is such a huge problem for so many people and especially in my world with pelvic floor challenges, it can be the instigator. It can also be something that people struggle with when they have pelvic floor dysfunction. So I appreciate as many people as I can have on here to talk about it. If you can tell us who you are, what got you into this world of talking about the gut and microbiome.

Sure, yeah. So I am a board certified functional health coach and I had a background in science for a very long time and. But my own health, like most of us practitioners, it's like something happens to you and like you start digging and saying, I need some answers. And that's pretty much what happened to me. I had gut issues and very chronic and I was constantly looking for answers. And I went from doctor to doctor and some said this, others said, eat more protein. I mean, it was just all over the place and never really got a concrete answer. And finally, I still remember this one day when I went to a new doctor and he was literally laughed at me and he said, suck it up, you know, these things happen. Yeah, I mean I'm in resident and this is how life, you know, it happens to all of us. A bit of bloating, you know, I mean he ate his cut off. Just kind of didn't even take my symptoms seriously. I remember sitting in the parking lot in my car, just completely devastated and feeling so hopeless. And that's when I clearly heard my grandfather saying, you know, take control of your life. You know, he was a physicist and a renaissance man and he was the one who had told me like food is medicine, you know, always kind of. And I'd forgotten that. You know, I'd forgotten that because I was in this whole American frenzy of let's get work done, let's, you know. And so convenience became the, the master key, so to speak, rather than really slow down and really look at life. And so from there I just, and this is of course we're talking about a time when we didn't have chatgpt or Internet as much. So I had to go research things in the library. I just remember spending hours at the UCSD library and that's when I fell in love with the microbiome. And I just, I was like amazed that we have these trillions of bacteria that are forever gas and we're kind of controlling so many different things. Even then, Kim, that we didn't have as much research as we do today. It was very clear that they, that we had this symbiotic partnership and we take care of them and we give them the foods that they deserve and they, which is, acts like fuel to them, they really reward us. So I just went back to doing that and, and I realized at that point that that's exactly how I ate as a child. You know, just because I was, you know, home cooked meals and things like that. And slowly I recovered. And this is something that like you, you hear other people saying, like my angelosis, when you heal, go heal someone else. And that's pretty much what happened to me. I said, well, I need to tell more people about the microbiome. And then my clients started saying, gosh, I know you've got to write a book, you write a book. So I wrote a book and started talking a lot about the microbiome. And this is a big part of my weight loss program as well because I noticed that there's a huge connection between menopause, post menopause, especially weight gain and the gut mud.

Amazing. I want to go down the menopause path. But before we do, for people who Maybe haven't listened to some of the other episodes. Can you just give us a. An understanding of what is the gut microbiome? You've mentioned trillions of bacteria. So what makes up our gut or our microbiome?

And so the important thing to remember is these bacteria have always been there. There's never time when they weren't within us, in us. So it's almost like a family heirloom that your mom passes on to you, so you have it. So then the bigger question is, how do we build a resilient microbiome? And a lot of people are thinking about when they think about microbes and bacteria and they think about, oh, these are the bad guys, these are the good guys. I'd like to think about them as, like, having balance. And having the resilient microbiome really means that you have enough species. You know, like, there's a richness of species. You have different kinds of bacteria because that is important, because they do a variety of functions for you, everything from managing your blood sugar to weight and to digestive issues, to sleep to mood. They do so many different things. They're very adept at helping you in different ways. And so if you have the species richness, there's. The functionality increases. But it's not just about having different species. It's also about having evenness, meaning that you can't really have one species, just kind of one type of bacteria just kind of just explode, and that's going to be at the peril of other bacteria. So it's like having, like a garden full of tomato plants and a little tiny zucchini is kind of just struggling to take hold. So we don't want that. So we want species richness. We want species even as we want diversity. And going into menopause, that's what happens. That diversity is kind of shaky. So it's important to at least kind of set the baseline as, let's have a resilient microbiome. And unhealthy microbiome is a resilient microbiome, which means that you are bombarded by any kind of health thing, or you go to Mexico, you have traveler's diarrhea, you were able to bounce back. And the reason you're able to do that is you have a resilient microbiome.

Got it. The first time I really heard the word, not that I hadn't heard the word diversity, but diversity as it pertains to the gut was with one of my other guests, Dr. Will Belsiewicz, and another one of My teachers, Katie Bowman, she brings language from nutrition and puts it into movement. So nutritious movement is her brand. And it's all about the micro and macronutrients and the diversity of movement. And, and so I really embrace that term now. I use it a lot. And you're saying that the diversity of what we have inside of us is important, but we need to make sure that we are feeding it also with diversity as well.

Definitely, yeah.

In general, before we go down the menopause path, generally speaking, let's. For anybody listening who's maybe not postmenopause, what are some of the ways that we can recover? So you mentioned you kind of got your gut health back in check. So what does a recovery plan look like for some people? And then once we, once we're in that sort of recovered phase, what does maintaining an optimal microbiome look like?

Yeah, that's a good question. So when you start out, and let's say you do have gut issues and you're struggling with, like in my own case, I, I couldn't just start and say, okay, willy nilly, I'm just going to add all those fiber beans. There's no way, because I didn't have the right players to go to bat for me. I didn't have these gut bacteria that are so adept at breaking down the fiber. But you see, because we are not able to digest the fiber, we eat foods that have fiber, where the fiber eventually goes to the colon, distal colon, and that's where you have these tons of bacteria kind of yay, food time. And they break it down and then they produce healthy compounds for us. But if we don't have those players or we have the species, don't have the species richness, then that's when a lot of the gut issues can occur. You know, not having someone to digest the cellulose in our, in our fiber and break it down. So that happened to me as well and happens to a lot of my clients. They're initially not able to, they need some enzyme support, which is where I think a lot of people who are starting out, adding fiber should, should start, say, hey, let me get some support. And then with time, they're able to increase diversity, add different kinds of fibers, increase fibers that are prebiotic in nature, because not all fibers are prebiotic. So increase that have fermented fruits, enhance good healthy fats, protein. There's a lot of conversation between, especially I think in your world, I think about protein and you know, the importance of protein and 100% agree that protein is very important, especially to postmenopausal women and who are struggling with either sarcopenia or just general, you know, just the beginnings of bone loss or, or muscle loss. But along with this I will argue that protein is very important. But you combine it with the fiber because studies have shown us that if you just have the protein that's great for us and our muscle synthesis and all of the good stuff that's happening. Right. But the, the bacteria starves. They are not getting the fuel that they need. And so are they going to starve? No. They will either eat your mucos lining or they will eat the protein. They'll eat the protein, they're gone. You know, they are picky eaters but they'll eat the protein because there's nothing else available. And then they can, because of that they can produce some unhealthy metabolites like ammonia, hydrogen sulfide. When you think of hydrogen sulfide, it's like the rotten egg gassiness and things like that. So that can happen and that's not really conducive for good health. So I always tell people like eat your protein. But along with the protein, just race. Ask yourself, how am I going to serve my forever guests? And that's like three years of research for the book can the one takeaway has been like research after research says eat your fiber. So eat your fiber. Okay.

And you mentioned enzymes. So enzymes are we, as I understand it, we have our own enzymes that should ideally be helping us digest the various components of our food. However, there may be times potentially from lack of diversity or for other reasons why we may not have enzymes doing that job and we need to the support is that, am I understanding that correctly and if so then what type? Because I know there's many different types of digestive enzymes. What would somebody start with?

Well, I think a good, well rounded. Well, it also depends on how the client or the patient is. What, what are they struggling with? Let's say their biggest struggle is cruciferous veggies or beans and lentils. Anything to do with the plant, plant kingdom. Then you look for enzymes to support digestion of sulfur compounds, beans, fiber, things like that. But let's say protein is an issue for a lot of people with constipation, for example. That could be a huge reason that they are kind of sluggish. Protein is getting putrefied. Protein takes longer to digest and it's sitting there for a long time. So someone like that may need some support for protein digestion or it could be this in, in your stomach and then a reduction of hcl. So there could be many, many reasons. So I personally think rather than just chasing symptoms, if we just look at the gut microbiome and say, okay, let's start with a healthy diet, what does that mean? I would say protein, fiber, good fats and as much as you can handle. And then along with that comes enzymes. Just support when you need it and then eventually you may not need it. And that's like an interim thing, you know, to help you when you need it. But then even taking the, when you take the enzymes can be important. Like, like you said, Kim, there are many enzymes that we produce. So in order for our bodies not to get our systems to get lazy sometimes, I will tell my clients, take the enzyme often, you know, rather than before to propel digestion. So these are little things that you can do to kind of just get your systems working again.

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You mentioned HCl, which is hydrochloric acid. So that's, that's our stomach acid. Is that correct?

Yeah. And yeah.

What, what's the difference between the enzyme and the stomach acid in terms of what they're doing?

So the stomach acid is in your. Well, it's in your stomach and it's like battery fluid, it's very, very low ph and it's like a, almost like a First after your oral microbiome, it's like the first line of defense. You know, you're taking in lots of food, all the stuff that you eat that we eat, fruits really come with some toxins, something that's undesirable, and the HCL kills it. So because it's, it's really kind of low ph. And so along with that they have, you know, we have protein digesting bacteria, I mean enzymes and in the gut that. So having good HCL is very important. And as we age, our HCL can decrease with time. And that could be one of the main reasons that, because most of the protein digestion is starting in the stomach and not having that good strong HCL is challenging. Or the ACL could be at the wrong place. It could be in the esophagus rather than in the stomach. And that can cause acid reflux and other. A slew of problems from that where again, you know, people just resort to medications, proton pump inhibitors and things like that. But instead, I think going back to diet and lifestyle makes a huge difference.

So if, if they're taking like, if we have the stomach acid, that's kind of, as you said, the first line of defense and then the enzymes, some people will say consume apple cider vinegar before you eat. Is that playing the role of the stomach acid or the digestive enzyme?

Well, actually, I'm not sure. You know, there's a lot of information about apple cider vinegar that it's like. I mean, the research is all over the place. So from a science perspective, I couldn't tell you why. You know, I think there's a lot of information out there that's more alternative in nature and sometimes it's in your practice, right? I see things in my practice, but I can't tell you that it's like the spoken word. It's. Of course it's true. Just because it happened with a couple of my, with my clients. My, some of my clients swear that having that apple cider vinegar has made all the difference in their digestion. It's kind of cuts the appetite, it just helps them. But they think of it as like a cure all for. And others, I didn't see any difference at all. So it's really hard to say. But I think apple cider vinegar could be used as the first. Instead of taking like an HCL pill which is like available, some people will try a apple cider vinegar initially or umeboshi, which is like a Japanese vinegar, all of that to naturally increase your HCL production rather than taking like an HCL pill. And even when you do take hcl, you've got to be very cautious. And there's a protocol in the alternative world on how you take acl.

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Okay, so I'm going to come back to menopause. You dropped that little seed at the beginning there. So what is it about the transition into. And as we carry on post menopause, what is it about that transition that influences the microbiome?

That's a good question. Even before we get into menopause, I just want to kind of back up a little bit and say menopause or post menopause is not a disease. It's a stage in life. And it's a stage that lasts up to three to four decades of our life. Right. I mean, we're living longer, so it's time to embrace it. And I think especially here in the Western world, we've kind of framed menopause and in terms of loss, loss of youth, loss of sexuality, loss of hormones and loss of bone. I mean, it's loss, loss, loss. But you think about Chinese medicine, they look at menopause as the second spring. What a wonderful way to look at, at the stage of life that we have accrued wisdom. And there's so many things that are so brilliant about this stage.

Right.

So. And we always think about menopause as a stage where like, oh, this is when my hormones are depleted. True. You know, estrogen tanks, progesterone's like, who knows, you know, just all over. So your cortisol may be increasing and you're thinking belly fat. My body is changing. But not enough has been understood about the microbiome or the gut and its role in menopause. But it does play a huge role because first of all, the gut is. The gut has some incredible bacteria that are very, very good at eliminating or metabolizing estrogen. So when estrogen, it's called estrobolo, and there's a specific enzyme called beta glucuronidase, which really does a tremendous job at doing just this. But imagine if you do not have diversity in your gut, you don't have the right players producing these wonderful compounds called short chain fatty acids. That's doing all of the work. Obviously, you know what, what can happen is estrogen either become estrogen dominant because you are just not getting rid of it, you're not eliminating properly, or you become estrogen deficient. I see with a lot of my weight, weight loss clients, clients who come in for weight loss, that there's an incredible estrogen dominance in your microbiome. Functional analysis tests, you know, and right there it shows me that, oh, there's definitely, there's a problem with diversity. There are certain bacteria like Ruminococcus bifidobacterium, that we see in menopause, menopausal women that completely decrease. In fact, research is showing us, Kim, that the microbiome of a woman post menopause changes and starts resembling that of a man. Think about it. We have that apple shape and, you know, the belly and cholesterol fat, all of that. So the microbiome, it is time to remember that the microbiome really plays a huge role in women's health, especially menopause and postmenopexal ages.

I hadn't thought of. I mean, it makes sense. I can, I can think of it from person to person. We all have, we all are going to have a different microbiome, but there's, there's sex differences is what you're saying as well. So the microbiome of the typical, maybe you could say of a man versus a woman is also going to be different. Is that.

Oh yeah, and Mike. And it's, that's a fantastic thing about the microbiome. And I think something that I always tell everyone, it is so adaptable, it changes at every stage, starting like even before birth, to birth to childhood, to puberty. I mean, imagine like there are so many girls who go through puberty and start gaining a lot of weight and their microbiome and even that of a pregnant woman starts, you know, it starts resembling that of an obese person because that's how much the microbes shift. But the nice thing is 24 hours is all you need to bring some balance back into the microbiome. It adapts so quickly to diet and lifestyle that it doesn't make sense to ignore it. Everything else takes so much more time. Genes, forget about it. You know, it isn't. But microbes really respond to change and dietary changes and dietary patterns.

So what would be different about the microbiome of an obese person compared to a non obese person?

Again, it depends on the stage of life. But what I have seen in my practice is like an obese person who has been on very restricted diets starved their microbiome in the name of weight loss. They've gone through many bouts of it and then they see that they regained the weight. Now research very concretely shows that these people are lacking these flavonoid burning bacteria, you know, bacteria that really are very specific in digesting certain flavonoids, polyphenols and things like that. So what happens when you are a restricted diet? You just really stop eating. A lot of diversity, right? You just kind of just eat mono, eat every day. Okay, I'm just going to have this little piece of chicken and maybe a few pieces of lettuce and you know, I have to watch my weight. So that becomes an obsession at the cost of these, the health of these bacteria. And now we really have good science to show that if we are able to, through this time of weight loss, if you're able to diet to feed the microbiome, you know, the foods that they, that weight regain doesn't happen as much. And I see that a lot in my practice. I mean, when you hear about like Weight Watchers and people like that, they will tell you that people lose Weight. But no one ever talks about what happens to you down the road because 80% of people who gain the weight. I won't lose the weight. Gain it back.

Yeah.

And that's the one big difference. Feeding your microbiome helps you with, it really helps you stay healthy. It's feeding the right kind of, it's getting the right kind of microbes to the party. And that's what we want. We want microbes that are really adept at digesting these flavonoids and polyphenols and are building these shorching fatty acids that are so healthy. And one thing to remember is when we are in postmenopausal stage, there are so many changes in our body and our health. Right. Cardiovascularly, for example, bone health. There's so many things that are happening. And the microbiome is involved in every single aspect of health.

Okay, what I want to talk about some of those aspects of before we do. What would be, I think your answer is going to be diversity, lack of diversity. But what are some of the reasons why somebody may struggle with constipation? And when we think about then overcoming that constipation, there, there may be several reasons, but we're going to focus on the, the gut issue. So there could be pelvic floor problems or there could be other reasons. But from a gut health perspective, what is what would contribute to somebody dealing with constipation? And then how do we use leverage, our gut microbiome to overcome constipation?

And as a pelvic floor expert, I think you see this a lot, right? You know, just with the pelvic muscles and the straining, the hemorrhoids, all of the aftermath of constipation. When we look at the gut microbiome and we look at constipation, I think one of the first things for me is looking at serotonin. Serotonin is your happy hormone. 90% of it is in housed in your gut. And serotonin is really so responsible for gut motility that whole peristalsis, you know, that wave like motion where it's, you know, pushing the stools to the lower bowels. So when your serotonin decreases, you know, constipation can occur. So it's not just what you eat, but really having the right bacteria that are helping you with that serotonin production.

So our gut produces our serotonin?

Yes, and, and a good 90% of it. And then we have that gut brain axis where there's a back and forth, you know, messaging going on so that serotonin is key, you know, and it doesn't stop right there. We also notice that people who are constipated also are struck their sleep is impacted because think about serotonin, it's a precursor of melatonin. And a lot of people who are don't have serotonin struggle with sleep because their melatonin production decreases. So it's many fold, you know, and all happens in the gut.

I think about myself when I was struggling with my rectocele which contributed to constipation. I had struggled with constipation before that when I was going through perimenopause and had thyroid challenges. And I became very restricted in my diet as well because I knew exactly what would give me a good poop in the morning and not hopefully not make me poop again until the next morning because it was the later in the day poops that were always a bit of a struggle for me and other people who have erectoceles. So I think about that restrictive nature of my diet. Eating the exact same thing almost at the exact same time over and over and over again, just pressing repeat and there was no diversity happening in there. And at the time I was also not sleeping very well. And it kind of becomes a chicken and the egg and you're not sleeping so then you feel worse the next day and you get in that hamster wheel. But I hadn't thought of it from the serotonin perspective before. I think I've heard other people talk about. But it's kind of making a bit more sense today. So how can somebody. Obviously we want to improve the microbiome but specific from a motility perspective. I remember doing a post. It was my like I truly had a viral post. This is the only one that was like truly viral. And I think it's at like almost eight and a half million views now of a blue poo. The blue poo test and it was basically using blue food coloring to tell you what your transit time is. So does transit time relate to motility?

Definitely.

And is. I mean I'm not. People are got all up in arms. Why are you getting people to consume blue food diet And I. I know it's not ideal but it's a test and it's not. I'm not saying it's healthy for your gut personally but you're trying to find a benign substance that wasn't going to influence digestion to get a real sense of how quickly things are moving through. So can you talk a little bit about what is. What's motility versus transit time, and what can we do to improve them?

Yeah, first of all, gut motility is like, a lot of people who are not constipated will think that the transit time is okay, but that's not true. So that's why doing a test like I use, I have my clients use either obese because they're benign and that red shows up perfectly, or corn. These are the two things that I use in my practice. And the blue is interesting, though.

Yeah, it's like a party trick, right?

Yeah, it's a party. Get them excited. So to remember that, we need to see, like, how much time food stays in each part of the digestion. Digestion. Digestion doesn't just happen in the stomach, you know, goes through, you know, that whole digestive tract going into the small intestine and finally reaching your colonial, where it can sit for a longer time, you know, before it clears a species. So a good transit time is anywhere from 18 to 24 hours. Anything more than 24 hours is a sluggish transit time. Anything less than 18 hours, you know, could be considered malabsorption in some circles. So I see this a lot, you know, even in people who claim that they have good, perfect bowel movements every single day. The peristalsis action could be slowed down by because of many reasons. It could be hormonal. It could be that serotonin effect. It could be physiological. There could be so many reasons for it. But I largely see that it's diet, hydration, lack of exercise, you know, the sedentary kind of person, you know, and, you know, these are the things that really seem to affect gut motility. And so there are many things to do. Fiber, for example, is super important. And really understanding the difference between soluble fiber and insoluble fiber and the roles that they play in gut motility is important. Fluid are very important. Hydration is very important. Fitness or exercise is very important. I mean, these are things that play a huge role in gut motility. And you probably focus a lot on exercise. And I've seen that even just certain kinds of yogic position make such a big difference. Sometimes I have to really tell my clients that, you know, how your kid was potty trained. We are going to potty train.

Yeah.

Because that's what I do. Because it's really understanding how this. How to squat, how to, you know, even just doing that squats, even hop squats, really make a huge difference in some of my clients and their constipation.

Yeah, you mentioned soluble and insoluble. Can you think of soluble as like the sweeper? It's the one that is usually absorbing a little bit more and the insoluble is kind of not, not absorbing and it's just like the roughage that passes through. How would you describe the difference between the two of them?

I would describe it just exactly like what you said. You know, insoluble is like the one that especially if you're constipated, you need to take more off because it bulks the steam.

Right.

And having that difference, knowing that difference between which one is bulking you and which one is more like viscous and just. And because the sort of soluble fiber helps you in so many other ways, it really helps you with, you know, like cholesterol issues and so many other things that it's, it's good to take a happy mix of both and increasing your prebiotics like so fibers don't mean just like beans and lentils and. But prebiotic foods like onions, artichoke, asparagus, you know, they're all so high prebiotic fibers and they also have enough insoluble fiber that it really helps with things like constipation. Yeah.

Okay, one thing, another part that you've talked about is serotonin, melatonin, which sort of aligns with our circadian rhythm, which the gut plays a role with that as well. And a lot of times just by like when I'm communicating with my community, it's about waking up with the sun, seeing the light, but also leaving yourself time in your morning to poop. Because we're, we're always rushing. We wake up and we frantically have to do all these things like get out the door maybe or whatever we need to do and we don't leave ourselves time for that sort of rest and digest. So can you talk a little bit about the circadian rhythm piece as it pertains to the gut microbiome?

Yeah. The interesting thing about the gut microbiome is it has a circadian rhythm just like us. It's diurnal, 24 hour cycle. They pretty much follow the same cycle that we do. They have respect for waking up in the morning, digesting at a certain time, is going to bed at a certain time. So just like when we do not follow our diurnal patterns and we erratic eat or eat later at night, we have to face the consequences the next day. And some research shows that when even one day of poor sleep can, may have you eat up to 400 calories more the next day of junk food, not the real healthy kind, you know, hedonic foods.

So.

And our, our gut microbiome pretty much behaves the same way. They have the same diurnal clock. And so if we do not respect that, and that can lead to imbalanced guts, you know, you could have more systemic inflammation. I think people have heard about leaky gut or the intestinal permeability that can increase. And we can have a lot of these, you know, NPS or lipopolysaccharides and endotoxin entering your bloodstream and causing that systemic inflammation, which can in turn worsen your visceral fat and, you know, your fat cells holding onto toxins. So many ramifications from just that. So it's very important to kind of respect the circadian rhythm of the. Of the gut, I think. You know, I hadn't thought of the.

Gut having its own rhythm. Like, I sort of felt like it was indirectly part of the big circadian rhythm. But it has its own rhythm.

It has its own rhythm. Yeah, very much like ours. And, you know, in Ayurveda, for example, that which is Eastern Indian lifestyle medicine, we look at eating as like the. Our biggest meal with the sun, like with the high noon, you know, because that's when the digestive fire is at its peak and we are able to digest the most, absorb the most nutrients, you know, and a lot of times we are so busy taking supplements, or we are. We think it's. It's not just about the food that we eat, but it's about what we absorb. And that's where the gut microbiome plays such an integral part. You know, it's really helping us in so many ways. I mean, think about bone health, for example. How can you even imagine that the gut microbiome is connected to bone health? Yes. From an estrogen perspective, you know, when estrogen tanks, you know, your bone health takes a beating. And we've all heard that. But even from a perspective of God, you know, like, there are certain microbes that are so amazingly incredible at helping these osteoblasts, you know, and helping with bone health rather than bone loss. So imagine losing these bacteria that are so good at helping us with bone health and for. With autophagy, you know, with clearing out all of that stuff. If you don't have these players, we are going to have more of that bone loss. And so it's not just about hormones, but it's also about the big role that the microbiome plays.

You mentioned the word osteoblast which I always think of the B. Osteoblast for building. So osteoblasts are what are the bone building cells, Is that correct? Yeah.

And then.

And so we want to. As you're talking, the gut microbiome will help feed the osteoblasts. Okay.

So the gut microbiome helps by the production of or having these bacteria that are really good at supporting. You know, I wouldn't say creating, but supporting. That's what, that's all we know for them is supporting these osteoblasts. You know, I mean, just that is an incredible amount of support for bone health. So when we think about bone health, we just think about calcium and vitamin D and we. And. But it's not about the vitamin D or the calcium that we take in, but it's about what we absorb. And that's where the gut microbiome plays a huge role.

How can we improve absorption? So how can we make sure that what we are consuming is being absorbed and distributed to where we need it to go?

You know, I think food is important, but what we eat is important. But when we eat and how we eat are equally important. And this is just on me saying it. It's science and there's many, many studies coming out now that talk about the importance of mindful eating. And, you know, how we support that, you know, because when you eat lowly and we put our fork down and we take a minute to appreciate what we've just taken in, that gives the brain enough time. I think it's like 20 minutes lag time in getting the message that you're full. Imagine if you're able to put your fork down. Just that putting your fork down and chewing mindfully. The chances of us overeating are way less.

Yeah, I'm guilty of being a very fast eater and I'm trying to slow down. I was actually just at a retreat in Mexico where the cooking was all ayurvedic. So as you're saying the biggest meal was. The biggest meal is there was two. I'd say breakfast and lunch were quite large, and then dinner was a little bit less. It was all vegetarian. We were all pooping multiple times a day. Part of it, of course, for on retreat, we're relaxed, but we had our very much a circadian rhythm and what we were bringing in was important. However, I've known that I'm a fast eater and I. I've always said I'm going to try to chew more, I'm going to, but I I very concertedly made a concerted effort during this past week to slow down, put my fork down, thank my food, realize that like be grateful the. For the energy that this. The fit. Everything's energy and this food is energy and it's grown to feed us. And so I've just kind of. I just eat and I don't even really think about it. And so now it's really shifting my mind to slow down and slow down.

So did you find out what your dosha is? I think you're about that, right?

Yes, I think. And I've had another woman on the podcast who is an Ayurveda practitioner and we talked about and she was saying.

Yeah, that so for a vata, for example. And you have that pitta energy.

Yeah.

But I think you're nudged me about that, you know, which is where all your brilliant ideas, you know, there's a lot of. There's no good or bad dosha. It is what it is. I'm about it too. And for us, that slowing down, that really especially eating super important because we are naturally. Our bodies constipate because of the air element in us. So we need to be extra careful about that. Eating some good fats, extra virgin olive oil ghee if you can, you know, handle that. And your cholesterol is fine and binding like bitter compounds with you know, like, like I know we eat a lot of salads with and all very good, but for a vata person, steaming sometimes is really important.

The warmth.

Yeah, yeah, the warmth is important. So even just take a little bit. Maybe an example could be cabbage. Right. When you think about all the incredible things cabbage does for us, you know, cabbage is produces and glucoraphanin, you know, and then even just a simple thing of overcooking it can kill that glucoraphanin. And then if you don't chew it properly, you're not producing an enzyme called myrosinase. And if those two are not that mechanical act of chewing does not crush the cabbage. We're not producing some unhealthy compound called sulfurophan that is really an anti cancer and so many different things. So I mean, I look back, Kim and I think of my grandma and my grandfather were so into fruit and stuff. I remember they always had cabbage with a sprinkle of mustard powder. And it's not that they knew at the time that the mustard powder is acting like a myrosinase. And we are getting the sulforaphane. My grandma never told me that. Yeah, but she said oh, if you add this, you're, you're not going to be as gassy, you're going to be, you're going to digest the cabbage better. But so there's that ancient wisdom, right. You know, that comes from which we.

Lost, as you say, you know, we have this convenience stuff and. Yeah, yeah. So interesting. Yeah, it was, it was. I'm grateful for the experience. It was the first time I had ever attended a retreat just for myself. I, I've spoken at retreats and been able to experience it, but it's always been sort of work related and this was really, truly just for myself. And I noticed the differences very soon, very quickly. So now it's about keeping that going in your everyday life, right? Yeah.

Yeah. You did ask about what should people eat or do you. As a first step. I think definitely eating fiber along with your protein is super important. Definitely being mindful of your circadian rhythm is really important. And for a postmenopausal woman, no question paying attention to your gut, maybe even just getting like a baseline test to see where you're at. And then if you do have that estrogen dominance or you don't have the right players, then become very strategic in how you start building it. You have a system.

Would it be a GI map test that you would use or do you have another one that you recommend?

I personally prefer something that's like shotgun sequencing whole genome. I mean, my whole philosophy is don't really go after the bad guys, build the good guys so they do the job of destroying the bad guys. So that's my personal philosophy and one that is supported by science, I think, you know, and so I use BiomeFX in my practice, but Tiny Health does the same thing. There's quite a few out there. And so when I get a test like that and for my weight, my clients who come to me for weight loss or weight regain, we look at the whole picture. We see who's missing, who's not there and how we can. And even from day one, it's all about feeding the microbiome. And then of course, there's another aspect to it. I mean, today is Epic is such a huge blockbuster drug, mainly because of the fruit addiction and that fruit chapter. And we can't ignore that. Brain centric. Being brain centric in your approach to this is also important. And reframing your mindset, you know, just really knowing how to think about it in a. With a. Because we have about 60,000 negative thoughts every day. So what about. What if we just look at it in a positive angle every single, every single step, every single thought that we have around food. If we can just reframe that, we're just going to have a better conversation about ourselves, of our bodies, and about life. On health.

Where can people find you mentioned you've written a book. Where can people find that and also find out more about your work and connect with you.

Well, my book is launching April 22, but it's ready for pre order on my website and my website is 9Arms of Wellness.com and my Instagram is also 9Arms.

Amazing. And I'll have the links in the show notes there for everybody. Thank you so much. This was so. I learned so much. I feel like, you know, not that I'm a gut health expert, but I've spoken to a lot of people and every time I do, I still learn something new. And so thankful for everything that you do and share and how you support women.

Thank you, Kim. This was the pleasure.

That's it for another episode of Between Two Lips. Thank you so much for choosing to spend part of your day with me. If you are enjoying the show, I recommend subscribing so you don't miss an episode. And I would also be grateful for a positive review. This will help get the information I share into the hands of more people who may not even know that help exists. Finally, I encourage you to take what you learn here and put it into action so that you can ensure that what you hear me and my guests share is not just lip service.