10X Your Health From the *Inside-Out* with Precision Supplements, Genetic Testing, and the MIND-BLOWING Future of AI in Wellness with Brandon Dawson

My name is Ben Greenfield, and on this episode of the Boundless Life Podcast, I don't know how you put a value on your life.

Yeah, I don't know how you put a value on your health. I have no idea how to put a value on your happiness, like feeling alive. We have one shot while we're here. Uh, I felt every day I'd wake up, I couldn't bend over and tie my shoes. Uh, I hated— I'd wake up in the morning, in the first hour I'd have to just drink coffee and coffee and coffee and try to get myself activated. I pop up out of bed now, I I hit my 10X Energy supplement, I hit 1 cup of coffee, I hit the red light, I hit the PMF, I just go through my process, I hit the cold plunge if there's one there, and I'm having a new one installed in my house, I can't wait for it to show up. And within 45 minutes, I am freaking wired and ready to go.

Welcome to the Boundless Life with me, your host, Ben Greenfield. I'm a personal trainer, exercise physiologist, and nutritionist, and I'm passionate about helping you discover unparalleled levels of health, fitness, Longevity and beyond.

The show notes for this episode can be found at bengreenfieldlife.com/10x. That's bengreenfieldlife.com/10x. Enjoy. It's Brandon Dawson here with a good friend of mine. This guy is a leader in the world in biohacking and understanding the science of how to optimize your body. So I can't wait for you guys to participate and listen to the show. I'm here with Ben Greenfield. Hello, Ben. How you doing here, bro?

I'm pretty good.

Oh man, I'm so excited to talk to you.

Yeah. Well, I'm excited to be down in beautiful Scottsdale and not goosebumping every morning.

100%. 100%. So listen, I noticed you're wearing a 10x Health shirt. So let's just peel the band-aid off and talk about why are you wearing a 10x Health shirt?

Oh man, where do I start? So, It's been probably like 3 months that I've been kind of paying attention to some of the new science you guys are rolling out. You ran a test on me. I was actually over in London. I dropped into a clinic over there, submitted my test for the Precision Genetic Panel, and I got these 3 books. These are your books. I had 3 just like this sent to my house and started thumbing through them and was pretty impressed what you're able to put together based on, you know, essentially me swishing a little bit of saliva in my mouth. And then, I didn't realize until probably, I think it was like a month and a half ago that you're able to basically like print supplements based on the analysis, which blew me away because there's really nobody doing a good job of that in the space right now. And, You and I have been talking since then about the potential for where else this could go, like custom grocery shopping lists, you know, show up at a grocery store and scan a QR code and get your food dialed in, exercise plan, you know, the supplementation. Like, there's so many areas this could dive into. I mean, beyond just what's going on in your gut or your supplements or how you exercise, I mean, even down to how you're living. What you're putting on your body, your beauty care products. I mean, you could pretty much customize someone's entire life and optimize their health based on this stuff. So, it was kind of a pattern interrupt for me and so much so that I wanted to get involved with you guys.

So, you literally speak all over the world. You've been known as one of the top biohackers and personalities on social media for years. I've known about you since we launched 10x Health. And, you've been an advocate for optimizing human health, with a variety of modalities. You've seen just about everything that's in the marketplace on a global basis.

Yeah.

From your perspective and opinion, based on the fact that we've been working together this long and you've actually received your precision supplementation, your precision carb or fat blockers, your precision analysis broken down to how you should train and what you should be eating and how you should be eating, and then you augment that with your blood and it brings it to real time. So you have the baseline with your, with your genes, and then on top of that, you basically alter as you go along.

Which is a good point, by the way, not to derail you, but that can be one of the issues with genetic testing. And, you hear people say this, "Well, these are all predictive." And, you'll hear an analogy like, "All this shows is what kind of dynamite you're holding, but that doesn't necessarily mean that you've lit it with the match or you haven't actually experienced what these genes could potentially cause." But then, you marry something genetics to actual blood work to see what's actually manifesting. And then you have a real-time picture along with a predictive, uh, preventative picture that you can act on. And that's where I think the genetics and the blood is a, is a good combination versus just having the prediction. Now you've got, well, how's this actually fleshing it out itself out from a, from a biology and biomarker standpoint?

And now all of a sudden you have a way to regulate your body for human precision optimization and to your point, the ability to print supplements. I mean, at the end of the day, these are my supplements. I went from— there's all these 10x Health bottles behind us, right? And I, I would carry trays with me when I travel, and I travel extensively. Every once in a while, those trays would flip upside down, bust open, and I'd open up my suitcase and I would have a whole bottom suitcase of supplements, and I'd be holding them in my hand.

Yeah.

In addition to that, we would go to people's homes and find out what supplements are you ingesting? And they would go into their cabinets and they would pull out hundreds of bottles. And we'd ask them, well, why are you taking this? And what are you taking this for? I have a friend that told me about that. I had a doctor said I should take— I saw this on an advertisement. And so what happens is people end up accumulating all these supplements and all this medication, and they start taking everything together, and then they're not regulating any of it. And worse, We started looking at who's manufacturing these supplements and where are they coming from around the world, and they're like being manufactured in little towns in China. You have no idea what's in those supplements.

Welcome to my— nice. So, so I say nightmare, it's not that bad, but I work with a lot of people. I'm on the phone typically about 12 to 15 hours a week just walking people through interpretation of blood work, biomarkers. I'm not a doctor, right? But, but I spend a lot of time digging into this stuff. Like, my formal background is a master's degree in physiology and biomechanics, but I've geeked out on nutrition and biochemistry for years and years since then. And so I spent a lot of time looking over people's labs, talking with them about their health and their fitness goals, et cetera. But as part of that, you get the digital equivalent of the plastic bag full of supplements, right? Here's the spreadsheet, Ben. And you know what, it's a spreadsheet that it's going to be a lot of supplements or the spreadsheet of the giant Google Doc full of all these things that I'm taking. And there is this human psychological tendency once a good habit is started to continue that good habit. And that can be one of the issues in the health optimization industry is I started doing the sauna and then I heard about cupping, so I'm doing some cupping every day. And then, I've got this percussive gun, so I'm doing a little bit of bodywork each day. And then, I heard about the cold plunge thing. I'm supposed to do cardio, but I'm not supposed to just do long cardio, I'm supposed to do short cardio too. And I'm supposed to lift weights, but I'm supposed to lift them fast and then lift them slow. And stuff starts to stack to the point where you can build up a pretty impressive protocol and then have no time left in the day because you haven't learned what's redundant or how stack certain things effectively. When you look at supplements, you see the same thing. People will amass a huge number of items based on what you were alluding to. My doctor recommended this, my friend recommended this, I read this article about this brand new sexy thing that's optimizing my mitochondria, my longevity, or whatever, and stuff stacks. And I've gotten to the point now where I will take that whole sheet. This has saved me hours and hours. I feed into GPT now and I say, "Okay, show me the redundancies. Show me the sourcing of all these supplements. Show me what is that's interfering with the absorption of another because, A, it gets messy from a biochemical standpoint and it can produce things like, for example, vitamin D toxicity, right? If you're on 5 different supplements and each of them is averaging like 1,000, 2,000 international units of vitamin D, all of a sudden you're pulling calcium into your arteries with vitamin D toxicity. That's just one example. But, you pair that with what you experienced with, you call them trays, I call them old man pill containers. And I'm lazy. I used to just throw all the bottles into my suitcase and I don't check luggage, I'm a carry-on guy. So, I've got these suitcases that are just ripping open at the seams with 12 different bottles of stuff in them. And that's another issue. I pack for this trip because I just got my Precision Supplements last week. I pack for this trip, I have 2 little Ziploc bags, one with my Fat Car Blocker, one with my Precision Supplements, and that's all I need. I just— I just— Yeah. So, that's a huge saver, but then also this idea that you can take something like this. And, I would imagine people are probably wondering this because this is not all that's on the table. You've got all these other things back here behind like methylene blue for mitochondrial and neural optimization or amino acids for recovery or satiety. You can take something like the Precision Supplements and then à la carte the stuff on top of that that you need. Because this multivitamin mix in here is going to put you to sleep at night, right? But then, you could add something like the sleep onto that. So then, you can pick and pack, but it's still a pretty small number of things that you have to select from and a pretty small amount of confusion and packing frustration. Well, from here to how it used to be.

I used to carry literally 14 of these bottles. I'd throw them in my suitcase. And then, I can't see when I don't have my glasses on. So I'd get up in the morning and I'd start opening the bottles and putting them in a lid, one lid, right? And I would stack and stack and stack, and then I'd be like, I'd put a handful of them in and then I'd think to myself, oh, wait a minute, how many of those am I supposed to take? And I'm trying to read the backside of the bottle and then I'm like, oh, I'm only supposed to take one of those. I think I put 3 in. I look down and because I have so many supplements in there, I can't figure out which— they look the same at some point.

And so sometimes I'd be taking things going, which one did I just put in? What do I need to take out?

And what did I forget?. And so, to replace that and have all my supplementation for the day that's built for me, printed for me with an absorption rate that's much higher than— Right.

And yours might be different. I mean, this is probably important for people to know. Like, this is not the Fat Carb Blocker. This one, I can tell because it's only two colors versus this one, which is multicolored, the multivitamin one. So, the fat carb blocker, that's based on the FAB gene and then the ARD gene. I think those are the two acronyms for the genes. The former responsible for how much fat you absorb, the latter responsible for how much carbs you absorb. So, this would dictate based on genetics how good a job you do digesting fat, how much is absorbed, what gets converted into triglycerides, what spills over into the bloodstream. The carbohydrate piece would dictate your propensity for gas or bloating due to inadequate carbohydrate breakdown, your propensity for something like increased blood sugar response to a meal based on excessive or rapid carb breakdown. So I don't know your profile, it might be different than mine, but I'm about 50/50, meaning I have about a 50/50 mix of fat blockers and carb blocks or blockers in my mix. But that's all based on the salivary analysis. So this one book the— this one, the big one, the nutrition analysis one, you can read through that and it'll show you, hey, here's, here's your fat carb blend and here's what you need to be taking. So this would be, for example, before your two biggest meals of the day, you'd take your fat carb blocker and then you'd take your, your multivitamin mineral mix, which has some extra goodies added into it after one of the other meals.

Makes sense. And so basically, um, the— basically all you have to worry about, like, I just got back from the Middle East, I was there for 10 days, I took 10 of these And, I took 20 of these and I didn't need to haul. I took my sleep. I love my sleep and I love my calm before I go to bed and then I'm out, right? And so, where I use—

You're not messing around with the methylene blue yet?

I do methylene. When I'm in town every morning, the first thing I do is methylene blue. I actually like to mix a little bit with our 10X electrolytes. I put it in a bottle, shake it up, I hit that methylene blue, I go out to the red light bed.

I was going to say that that is the match made in heaven, methylene blue. So, The idea behind, for example, the 10X Superhuman Protocol is you're going to alkalize and make the body more receptive to oxygen by doing the pulsed electromagnetic field therapy. Then, you hyper-saturate the body with oxygen and there's kind of a couple ways to do that. You can either get into a hyperbaric chamber, you can just sit there and breathe hypoxic air and then hit yourself with hyperoxic air, or your guys' approach is you get on an exercise bike or any exercise apparatus and you just breathe like 90 to 3% oxygen, but that last step is the red light therapy, which basically kicks off nitric oxide synthase from the part of the mitochondria called cytochrome c oxidase. And, when that happens, it allows oxygen to rush in and assist with the production of ATP. Now, what can speed up that process is methylene blue. As a matter of fact, any melanin-rich compound from the plant kingdom, this is very interesting, humans can almost photosynthesize a little bit like plants. Meaning, if you take a dark black of the plant kingdom, one popular one right now is shilajit, dark green like an algae compound like spirulina or chlorella or methylene blue and you combine that with red light, you're basically amping up the activity in the electron transport chain in the mitochondria and you're essentially creating extra ATP without having to eat calories. And, I mean, at some point you got to eat calories, but this is kind of like an extra edge if you combine it with red light. So, if anybody has not— if anybody's tried red light, try it with methylene blue a half hour before and you get this huge rush of energy compared to doing the red light without the methylene blue. So, I mean, it's like a cheat code on the superhuman program.

Ben Greenfield: I can tell you personally, my routine in the morning, especially when I travel because I travel extensively. So, that first morning back, I go over to the club, I hit the cold plunge. I did get my workout in. I hit the cold plunge. I get back home. I lay on my mat for a little bit and kind of just relax. I go in, then I just hit that oxygen for 12 minutes. I just get on the bike, go as fast as I can, and then I go lay in that red light bed. But before I lay on the mat, I hit the bottle of methanol.

Yeah. So it's in your system by the time you get— And I'm just— you forget about it.

—plunging 30 minutes. Red light.

Yeah. Right.

And then afterwards, my recovery time from travel, Like, I just flew 17 hours, right? And my recovery, I was recovered in the first day I got home. I felt amazing. And you and I had dinner last night and I was going to go home and go to bed and I'm like, I feel phenomenal. So, I think this whole thesis of human optimization and what 10x Health is focused on, you've been in the space of biohacking and analyzing almost everything that's come to the marketplace now in the last, I don't know how many years you've been doing this.

Honestly, when I was— so I was homeschooled K through 12. I grew up in North Idaho and was just a total nerd. I was president of the chess club, played violin for 13 years. I spent a lot of time in my bedroom reading fantasy fiction, turned out my first novel when I was 13 years old. I was just full-on autodidactic intellectual introverted Ben. And I discovered the sport of tennis when I was 14 and just fell in love with tennis. Played tennis for hours every day, started running up and down the hills behind my house, started paying attention to what I was eating and pre- and post-workout nutrition. I'd met a couple of guys in the community. The guy was the Washington State powerlifter champ or powerlifting champ, another guy who was a professional bodybuilder. And these guys who were family friends just started teaching me about physical culture and science. And I got interested in a topic that I'd never been interested in before in my life, namely science and specifically human performance as it relates to science. So that's what I decided to go study in college. I was before that thinking about doing video game programming and just forsook that, walked onto the tennis team at Lewis-Clark State College, started playing tennis, started studying at the time what was called kinesiology, transferred up to University of Idaho after a year and just went deep into exercise science. I actually took the MCAT, did all my pre-med coursework. I got accepted to 6 medical schools out of college. And, there were 2 that I really wanted to get into. There were MD-PhD programs, one at Duke and one at UPenn. I didn't get into either of those programs, so I thought, "Okay, I need to make myself look even better on paper and then come back and reapply. So, I got a job in hip and knee surgical sales for this company called Biomet out of Post Falls, Idaho. So, I worked with them for about 9 months and absolutely detested all the time I was spending in hospitals, in clinics, standing there with a laser pointer helping surgeons install hip and knee implants and people who would have been probably better served through preventive approaches, nutrition, autoimmune approach to arthritis, et cetera. And I quit that job after 9 months. I walked across the street from my apartment, which was in Liberty Lake, Washington, slapped my resume on the counter and asked for a job managing the gym and spent 2 years there building up their fitness programs. I met a doctor there who was the doctor for Rock 'n' Roll Marathon and Ironman Triathlon at the time. His name was PZ Pierce. And PZ proposed this idea to me of a one-stop shop for sports medicine. Or you could have chiropractors and physicians and massage therapists and physical therapists and me as the director of sports performance all under one roof, which to me was just super cool. And we did that. So, we opened Champion Sports Medicine in Spokane, Washington. I ran that for 4 years and we were just known for doing the most cutting-edge stuff. We had indirect calorimetry, meaning we could measure fat and carb oxidation at rest, VO2 max exercise. We were doing all this blood work early on before a lot of trainers and coaches were doing things like self-quantification, blood work. We had one of the first platelet-rich plasma machines for injections. We had high-speed video cameras for doing analysis of gait and bike fits. I had underwater cameras I'd take triathletes and swimmers to the pool with to do underwater biomechanical analysis. So, we were kind of known as the place to go if you wanted the best of the best training and treatment for any medical—

And, you would attract people from all over the world that would come to train?

Yeah. So, it culminated in 2008, I got voted as America's top personal trainer. And, that's what kind of thrust me into the limelight of a lot of what I do now, content, online coaching, advising, writing, things like that. So, I eventually just basically sold out of the gym and the studio, moved into my house and started doing a lot more of what I do now, which is research, consulting, advising, podcasting, et cetera. But, starting from 14 and tennis to Today, I'm 42 now. It has been essentially, you know, 28 years of just deep study in nutrition and exercise science. This is all I've lived for basically my entire career.

And all over the world. Yeah. I mean, you're a world authority on this subject. Yeah. Because I've been watching your stuff. I knew before we ever met because you and I met maybe 4 years ago at a health conference. And I was like, I was like, there's the, the Ben Greenfield because I didn't know I was going to run into you there. And so, with all that experience you have and all the things you've seen and people sending you stuff to test and people sending you things to look at and people sending you things that they pay you to look at.

It drives my wife nuts. Like, every day, 6 to 8 boxes show up at the house and I say, you got to try this and this is the new neurofeedback headset and these are the 3 different new new forms of red light therapy and these 3 new supplements to help you live to 200 years old. And, it's just boxes all over the place every single day. So, it drives my wife nuts, but I love it. Basically, I'm just constantly getting to try all this new stuff. So, it's exhausting with the box cutter, but it's pretty fun.

Yeah. So now, all of a sudden, I tell you, "Hey, you should check out our new platform." So, you're like, "Okay, I'll go check it out." You check it out, you get delivered the system. It covers all the things that you've spent your whole life working on, right? Optimizing a human being, bringing instead of reactive healthcare, which is what our system is today. I mean, we spend $14,500 per capita for— and literally we're ranked 167th or something next to Vietnam who spends $150 a year. And, —anybody that's had to access the healthcare system, a majority of people know how poorly managed it is and how expensive it is and how controlled it is. If you don't have the right insurances, they'll put you into bankruptcy.

Which is a recipe for disaster when paired with 24/7 access to hyperpalatable food that is heavily marketed. Yeah.

So we're not even into the food sourcing yet. So we're just into the medical system, third leading cause of death, checking into a hospital. I think it's crazy, right? And so most of the people I know, they would opt not to go anywhere near the hospital system. So what we're talking about is pulling forward to the very front end of— because in my mind, I've been in healthcare for 28 years, right? So you have the reactive, which is what we are almost entirely today. You have the intervention. So where someone's starting to have serious problems and then on the very front end of that, you have wellness and longevity. And for me, if you can get into the wellness and longevity side, then you minimize in the future the reactive side. And I've seen this just in the 4 years of having— 3 and a half years of having 10x Health— that if people focus on the optimization, but as a customer first and then as the owner with Grant Cardone, um, it was convoluted. It was a one-off. It was whoever you happened to talk to that happened to be an expert on something particular. And so I wanted to reinvent and reimagine the deliverable. And I've spent the last 3.5 years investing in this and looking at everything around the world. And I came across on a global basis, this Precision platform. Now we have done very well with our 5 breaks and supplementing those. We've seen so much success.

The methylation genetic test, which is so much good, but limited in terms of the amount of data that'll tell you.

And we're looking at 5 SNPs. Here, we're looking at 56. And so, we're looking at a much broader 10x per se, a much broader approach at how all this stuff interacts. And so, when our global medical team delivered to you your full report, which happened What was the first thing you were thinking when you started going through the significance and the connectivity of the overall data?

We talked about the customization piece, which I think that alone is impressive, but I think that a lot of people don't understand these Star Wars robot-esque terms and acronyms for different genetic SNPs and the FABPD2, ARXYZ, R2-D2, whatever. When you go through the report, and I can show you, obviously you've looked through yours, there's a QR code in the front that you can scan, but each section that you get to, and this was super helpful for me because I tend to do like 60%, 70% of my learning when I'm walking or working out or out hiking or tooling around the garage or whatever, but there's a QR code that you can scan at the beginning of each section where Dr. Daniel kind of walks you through with pretty good diagrams, cartoons, illustrations, you know, not long, but, you know, 4 to 8 minutes or so, I think, is the average length of these videos. What this all actually means, like what it actually looks like inside your body. So for me, as an information junkie, that was pretty cool that you have the education piece baked in. But then there's also this list of foods, like, like the foods that would be ideal for weight loss and the foods that would be ideal for nutrient density and overall health. So you can actually look through that, create your grocery shopping list. And I actually wanted to ask you this, if you've thought about this much. Potentially, you could take that and either using GPT or AI, create an actual meal plan and/or done-for-you grocery shopping list. Even to the point now, it's my understanding with smart grocery shopping, even though I'm a little bit of a Luddite in that regard, that you could actually kind of, when you do a Whole Foods order right now, show up and have your grocery bags full of the exact things that you would need? Is it— that's technically feasible, right?

Well, let me just tell you what I'm most excited about, right? This is one of the largest investments I have ever made as a, on a private equity basis. And when I made it, we did extensive research. This is all triple peer-reviewed data. This has been going on for 12 years. I wanted to move the business from kind of what we're doing to a life sciences organization, right? And I was on the hunt all over the world, and I found this platform. And it's so funny because I also sit on a lot of panels of leading healthcare experts from all over the world talking about the future. And I had just been at a Milken event in LA, and he had a panel of the leading experts from blood and from dietitians to nutritionists to MDs to cancer research to biohacking research. Like, it was a huge panel. And one of them said, in 10 years from now, you'll be able to walk into a supermarket, scan your QR code, and your basket of precision food based on your genetics will be sitting there waiting for you to pick it up based on your meal plan. And I was thinking, wow, because you and I both know, and we'll get into that in a minute, that when you're ingesting stuff, wherever you are ingesting that you have no idea what somebody used to grow that stuff, right? You could be putting, just compoundedly putting poisons in your body, right? And that'll be in a minute. But I was sitting here thinking, wow, you know, that would be so cool. So on my hunt, I started coming across a couple different companies that were research life sciences businesses, and they had components, but they didn't have the whole thing. And so I was like, wow, I found the front end of this, then I found the back end to this. I just need to find the middleware for it. And we were able to go and do a, basically a reverse triangulation of multiple companies into one for our global reverse triangulation. You take different companies and pull them into a new company basically. And basically take ownership of the IP as a combination. And Cardone Ventures, I put this together with my CFO Eddie and my wife Natalie. And it was an extensive, negotiation, but we put it all together and we rolled it out and announced it in April. Now it's a little clunky right now because we're building the tech, we're building the interfaces, we're building the streamlining, uh, the multiple data points and integrating into other people's technologies. But my vision is you will have an app on your phone. It'll have your meal plan, it'll have your training plan, it'll have your genetics, it'll update it with your blood, and you can lock in And you can do this today, by the way. You can walk into one of our locations, they'll shoot the QR code, and you can get a precision IV based on the nutrients that you need to entirely optimize you, right?

Like, like the equivalent of the supplements, but this time directly into your bloodstream. Directly. By anybody who's got an IV knows when you totally bypass gastric absorption, you're getting benefits that you feel right away. And a lot of, a lot of people have compromised guts. That's a huge game changer. Or 100% meet up, jet lagged, night out in Vegas.

We're in 46 countries now. You can get this precision delivered to you in 46 countries. The issue was that's all that technology did. And I'm like, but there's a lot of people that travel. They don't want to carry all this stuff around. They, they want to make sure they have equally a precision supplementation. So this is where this was created. And in all this, like I said, all this has been triple peer reviewed. It's been 40, 46 countries. We can do the IVs. We can deliver the supplements. The extension you're talking about, I just, I had dinner with John George. He's a friend of mine, Michelin chef. And I was showing him this and he's like, I could do special recipes and you could ship it to your home. And we guaranteeing the food sources. We're guaranteeing the combination based on your genetics and then upgraded with your blood because the beautiful thing about this is once you have the, this is the batteries in Tesla. The blood is all the fluids you put in the areas that still need fluids in order to optimize and run, right? You can't not put fluids in certain areas in your Tesla. And so the bloods are the thing you update that calibrate on a regular basis the wear and tear and the optimization once you have the baseline.

Yeah. And you, and we should clarify for people, saliva test is once in a lifetime, like, like your DNA, unless you're doing some crazy CRISPR genetic analysis, gene editing stuff. Your genes are your genes. So, the saliva test is once, what you've got the SNPs, and if you add new data from what you've gathered, that can be updated in the books or the digital version of them. But then, the blood is what you would do whether, you know, some nerds will do it every month, people do it quarterly. I would say annually is at least a pretty good cadence. But you pair that with the blood work. So again, back to what we were talking about when it comes to what's going on boots in the streets in the biology, That's how you keep track of where you're going on an ongoing basis. That's right.

Now think about this. You can have precision food to your point. You could just set up on a subscription with a trusted source. It could be a micro market. So someone who does it in your market, or it could be a national organization, or it could be global. We're going to get to a point where we are going to collaborate with these large supermarkets. We will collaborate with restaurants and micro markets. We will collaborate with national organizations where you could literally go and have your food delivered to you. But when you get it, because right now, if I'm going to bring in, because we have delivered food to us, right? Because we travel so much. My wife and I, we get the healthy same thing. Right. Pretty soon we're going to be getting made for Brandon, made for Natalie, just like our supplements.

Sounds like you have your templated grocery shopping list. Like, I like a lot of times I'll order Whole Foods to my room, just have it all there when I show up. Up, especially if I'm doing Airbnb. And it's, you know, it's coconut yogurt and sardines and avocados and some greens and some sparkling water and regular water and, you know, the little bit of mustard and then some dark chocolate for dessert, right? It's all— and a couple rotisserie chickens, right? It's the same. But technically, I could get way more precise with that based on the information that's here, and you could automate the process of that just showing 100%.

Imagine being able to do this around the world. Imagine showing up somewhere. In fact, Dana White just landed in Abu Dhabi. He was in Manchester 6 weeks ago. So, I test him, Dana, I've got the team waiting for you at the hotel, gets his Precision IV. He texts me, I have never felt— he gets a lot of IVs from us. I've never felt this good.

With the differentiator being that IV was customized to this.

It's Precision A based on his genetics. And so, when you You think about your supplementation, your fat or carb blockers. You think about the augmentation with superfoods because there's also superfoods in here bridging these gaps, these deficiencies you have naturally in your body, in your system, and then compound on that the things that you're ingesting with food sources. The extension on this goes to nutritionists. It goes— we don't even— haven't even introduced it yet. But imagine a world where you could actually supplement from the inside to— with a beauty button that you could push, and then you could have augmented into your supplementation supplements that would, from the inside out, work to make your skin amazing. Right.

So, what you're getting at— I don't recall the name of the gene, but there's one that dictates your recovery status for exercise, meaning how quickly you are going to recover from an exercise session and your propensity to tendon and ligament-based injuries. Like, let's say, uh, blown out an Achilles or, or tearing an LCL or something like that. That gene, a big part of it is based on your ability to be able to rebuild fibers in the body and your collagen and elastin production So, what you're saying is that by testing your status for things like collagen, elastin, and let's say hypertrophy or restoration of muscle fibers, you could actually further customize the supplementation based on what you need to rebuild from the inside out. But, with the beauty idea behind that being that what's going on with your muscles, your joints, et cetera, is what's going on with your skin. So, you can essentially be building your collagen and elastin skin elasticity firmness, hydration, whatever, from the inside out. Inside out. Based on your genes.

Based on your genes made for you. Now, this is a little teaser because we're not to market yet, but imagine a world, Ben, where you're supplementing from the inside, but then you could actually have serums made for you for the outside. You have a day serum, your name's on here.

This is pretty narcissistic, Brandon. You have a beauty serum. Did you think when you were 20 years old that you'd have a beauty serum named after you.

I did not. Here's the beautiful thing.

But they care about a beauty serum.

If you, when we launch this, and if you're running on our platform, because once you do, like you said, this is once you do it once in a life, you got the genes, you got the genes. We can continually add on augmenting your supplementation. And now anybody that gets Precision Creams, everyone's name's going to be on it.

Night, day lotion. Incredible. So now, and it's customized, meaning if I were to put yours on my body, I'd probably grow a third eye. Yeah, exactly. Regardless. Yes. So, you can— you're not doing this yet, but this is— Well, I'm doing it. Well, you're doing it.

We have certain people testing it right now.

How far out are we from that?

Less than 6 months, dude. And, I can tell you there's some big brands that are very interested in this. Like, I'm talking some of the biggest brands in the world. When I was sitting at the Milken Institute and they were talking about using genetics and augmenting it with blood, to optimize health and wellness and beauty and longevity. And I was sitting here thinking, why does this world— why do human beings have to wait 10 years? What if I could go find the best of the best around the world, put it all together because that's my expertise, and bring it to the market? And here we are, literally 12 months later, we are to market Precision Supplementation. You know, for weight management and weight control, yeah, you can, you can take injections and you can go and spend $700 to $1,000 a quarter and manage your weight, or you could manage it every day.

I know you want to talk about nutrition quality, but one thing that we haven't mentioned that I think is important is these are beans. Yep. And this is actually something I wanted to ask you, which, and you know, I know you, I know you've, you've talked me up as being in this industry for a long time and knowing a lot, but I haven't seen bead-based technology like this? Where'd you find this and why the beads? It's a great question.

My partner that manufactures this, he had spent the better part of 10 years creating this bead process, and he shared in this idea that you should have precision nutrition delivered directly into you, time released. And so when I went to him, I was referred to him from another friend. And he says, you need to go talk to this guy. So I go and I meet with him and I'm like, I hear. And he's like, yeah, I've got it running. I got a whole line in the back running for clients. I do this for all my super VIPs. He said, but 4 years ago I was approached by 5 different countries when COVID hit to entirely convert my lab to COVID testing because I have the most sophisticated lab in the region. And he goes, I pivoted my lab for humanity. It pulled me off advancing this any further, pivoted my lab for humanity, and I've done $1.5 billion in COVID testing in 36 months. Wow. I'm like, okay. And so when he toured me the lab, I was like, this is probably one of the most sophisticated.

Now I know who was making money when I had to get a COVID test everywhere. Exactly.

But the problem was he had 5 countries that were sending private jets into him and he could do the most tests the fastest with the most accuracy. So he got all these country contracts that overwhelmed him, but he did it for humanity, right? So I came along while he was just starting to wind that down. And I said, well, what's your plans with this? And he says, well, over the next 2 or 3 years, I'm going to wind it back up. And I said, how about I come in, joint venture with you, take it to the world. You stay focused on some of it because they have a whole bunch of platforms they're rolling out for all sorts of medical reasons. It's not just doing this. He has a huge billion-dollar company. And I said, how about you give me this? I'll augment it with that and augment it with what we do. I'll put it all together. I'll finance it. You just let me have it. Give me a global exclusive. And he's like, okay. It didn't exactly go that easy. So we manufacture this.— and, sorry. So, our production for this right now is in Austria, and it is in a world-class ISO 9000, even higher standards than that because of the other things that they do in there. He invented these microbeads and the way he wraps them for a timed absorption rate in the gut. Okay, got it.

So, and of course, these instructions were pretty well spelled out on the supplements box with the insert that came with it. Just so people don't get confused, you don't chew these. You literally just funnel them into your mouth, take a glass of water, swallow. I've only been doing it for a few days.

So, it's pretty new to me. Yeah.

Oh, for me, I just took mine, so I'm not going to do them again, but this is what I do.

As soon as I have my first meal, I just take this, rip it, go like this, go like that, hit the water I've got it now where I barely need to put any water in my mouth and I just swallow the whole thing. And then, I do one more to kind of swish around in my mouth because these microbes sometimes get up in the gun.

Ben Greenfield: Yeah. And, with the number of different nutrients that you're attempting to target based on the genetic analysis, what you're doing with that bead-based approach is you're achieving— I think when I talked with Dr. Barnish from 10X a couple weeks ago, he said there's like over 60 different things in the I'm calling it a multivitamin mineral, but I mean, it's a little bit more precise.

And with the superfoods, I have 100.

Yeah. So, basically, you're not opening like 15 different bottles when you take it. It's just all of it in that one packet. That's right. Yeah.

That's right. And it absorbs. And I can tell you, this is like, I've been testing the skin. My skin, I've lost since I moved on to this platform, I've lost about 14, 15 pounds. In fact, last time you saw me, between then and now, I've lost about 15 pounds. I've never felt better. It's so simple. I flew, landed in the Middle East, had the time zone adjustment, didn't skip a beat, flew home, had the time zone adjustment, didn't skip a beat. And to me, I know because I've been traveling my whole life and I know how kayir, jet lag. I know how crummy I would feel. I know that then I'd get in and I would eat to try to feel better, and then I'd feel worse, and then I'd stay up all night. None of those issues. So to me, I can tell my body is optimizing.

Yeah, based on how I feel. Yeah, without Ozempic. No, I can tell you're paying attention. I saw you pushing aside the croutons on the Caesar salad last night. I noticed things like that.

Yeah, so, so because this is telling me, you know, I'll tell you another funny thing. I'm not a big sugar eater. Like, I don't eat cake and I don't eat ice cream. I don't even have any desire for it. My biggest thing is I could devour a full watermelon every night. My favorite thing in the world is I'd have my house manager cube watermelon, put it in Tupperware, stick it in the fridge, and then I'd come home, it'd be ice, it'd be cold, and it'd be cubed, and I would devour the whole watermelon. Watermelon. I get my genetic report. I have one thing that's got all reds.

Don't tell me. So it's watermelon. Yeah. So I'm like— Unfortunate.

It's unfortunate, but you know what I did? Because now I know that I have all green on grapes, green grapes. Yeah. So I've just replaced the watermelon with the great big fat green grapes. It's actually one of the best.

Do you freeze them?

You have frozen— I do. Yeah. And so they're great snacks. You just pop them in. You can throw them in your— you literally throw them in your water and then eat them while you're going long, or just come home if you want a refresher. But the point is, it was one little tiny modification, and I believe that one modification is the thing that's allowing me to lose weight faster because I just switched a little behavioral thing. But the other thing I did is, as Dr. Barnum, our, our 10x medical director for genetics, he walked me through— these are your dos. He gave me a summary of all this, so I have one page as a summary. These are your dos and these are your. And so like at the restaurant last night, all I did is flick a couple croutons to the side. No big deal. I took my steak, if you noticed, and I moved it out of the mashed potatoes. I didn't eat the mashed potatoes. I didn't eat the croutons. I ate salad and I ate, and I was, and I loved it because I eat out all the time. So just making sure I'm picking and choosing and I'm aware of it because I'm now educated on it. Yeah.

Yeah. And that's, that's one of the issues with, with restaurants in particular is it's very, very difficult. You're out of control. There's the seed oils is one issue they have to deal with. There's a sourcing the ingredients. But, we were talking about this last night and you briefly brought it up a few minutes ago. People are pretty familiar with the concept that you are what you eat and you are what you eat ate. But, sometimes how that fleshes itself out is a little bit shocking. I mean, last night I said, well, there's two very powerful bioremediants in nature that act as almost like nature's filter, nature's liver as far as their ability to pull things from the soil to clean up the soil. Two common pieces of produce, if you want to call them produce or plants, that people consume, one quite a bit, the other depending on your background, but lettuce is a bioremediant that even if it's organic, not sprayed on the outside, if the soil that it's being grown in has a bunch of glyphosate runoff, metals, et cetera, it's bioaccumulating those. So, when you have a big salad and you're slapping yourself on the back for having had your salad for the day, you often don't know how many toxins you're consuming along with that salad. People who smoke weed. A lot of times you'll see they have very high levels of arsenic, lead, cadmium. And that's because that plant is basically absorbing those metals and you're essentially inhaling them if you're using that compound. Those are just a couple of examples. But I mean, you can also look at like the animal world, right? Like shellfish and pork, right? Shellfish are more of a living bio-remediant, right? They can detoxify the floor of the ocean and accumulate any of the microplastics, toxins, metals, etc. And even though you can get shellfish now, from clean waters. I think there's, you know, something to that ancient Levitical idea of avoiding shellfish because they are one of those things that if you don't know where they're from, they can do a lot of damage to your body. Pork, very similar. You can get clean pastured pork now if you ask, but if I see— like at the restaurant last night, they, they had a pork chop on the menu. It looked pretty good, but if I don't know the source of the pork— pork is the one animal that does the best job concentrating toxins in its fats. Yeah. So there are other things that, that I'm not quite picky about. Like, the occasional piece of grain-fed beef, I'm not that worried about if it's not a habit, but going grass-fed, grass-finished on the beef, paying attention to what the chickens ate. Like, we raise chickens up at our house and we feed them a natural diet. They get a lot of insects, they get a lot of grass. My wife drives an hour and a half every couple weeks to actually buy our chicken feed from a place that has the cleanest chicken feed because they concentrate the fatty acids in the grains or whatever else that they're fed not only in their meat but in their eggs. So you can get eggs with a very high amount of what's called linoleic acid. When you hear people talking about the dangerous effects of seed oils, one of the things that they're referring to are oxalams, oxidized linoleic acid metabolites. And this is what causes the cellular damage and the mitochondrial damage when you consume something like a seed oil or vegetable oil. But it's more than just avoiding canola oil dressing when you're buying your dressing at the grocery store. It's like, what, what the heck did my chicken eat? What was this pork or this pig fed?

Well, we have 10X Farms and Ranches, and I have accumulated hundreds of farmers and ranchers. Some of them own processing facilities. I don't think the average person in the United States understands how controlled this is starting, that the government's starting to have on how these processors actually process meat in order to sell it and what they have to do to the meat to be allowed to sell it. And so once I learned that, I'm like, I ain't buying any meat from the grocery stores. And now they've consolidated to these, these massive processing centers so they can force farmers to sell into those processing centers and control what happens inside those processing centers. And I'm like, we just— we've got 6,500 acres. I forgot to tell you this last night, but we have 6,500 acres in escrow in Wyoming Wow. Unbelievable. Backs up to millions.

Good hunting country out there.

Wait till you see this. When you were talking about— when we were talking last night, Mike, you're going to— mine's going to be blown. It backs up to millions of acres of Yellowstone. Wow. It's got 6 miles of river running through the middle of it. Because we have enough of our people that want to raise our cattle. We want to raise— my daughter, I told you, she's a hobby farmer. She's got her chicken. She's got her goat. She's got her cows. And they only eat what they raise and kill there. And then she sells it to the neighbors. Her own milk, she milks. I had to buy her a milking machine. She was sitting there for hours. I'm like, baby, you gotta— her parents, by the way, her grandparents, talk about genes. She grew up as my daughter. She grew up in Middle America in a little town, in a community of nice homes. Yeah. Somehow she found her way in Oregon to being a hobby farmer with cows and chickens and doing all this stuff. Well, her grandparents in Minnesota have got a couple thousand acres and all they've done their whole life is milking. Yeah. And so she was so disconnected from that, but somehow she landed at it, right? Which she didn't even get raised that way. So, you know, these genes, they have a way of—

I was going to say, it's in the genes. Yeah. In the genes.

Yeah. So the thing here is imagine a world when we talk about extensions, eating at restaurants, ordering food and have it delivered to your home, precision nutrition as IVs, precision nutrition as supplements, precision, everything's precision based on your genes and your blood in real time. And you can get in the front of that. When you saw this and we started talking about Got it. What was the thing that was going on in your mind about the opportunity here?

Oh, it's huge. I mean, this is something nobody has attempted to do before. I think probably because it's a pretty big project. And, you know, I met, like you were saying, 3.5, 4 years ago, but I'm just now learning a little bit more about the way that you operate and how you know how to seize these kind of opportunities and build them into something that's actually accessible to mass market. And this is the type of thing that would normally be pretty fringe, pretty inaccessible. I've seen people attempt to do things like this before, but seeing what you've rolled out, trying the products and thumbing through the books, talking with the doctor, looking over my own results and starting to adopt this stuff for myself, it is unique, especially in terms of it being available to the masses now. And I'm sure that there are probably some people, you know, if people who might listen to my podcast, if they're listening to it there, or maybe people watching this on YouTube who follow you who wonder, well, is this relegated to the uber wealthy? Is this the thing where this is not something that's scalable to the mass population as far as being able to make a dent in national or international health? What is the cost of something like this or what is the scalability of something like this?

Yeah, it's a great question. And, like he said, every chapter you open up has a precision customized a nice video from Daniel explaining exactly what you're looking at. We do have people that are like, I need someone to spend a couple hours with me and go through this. Um, and so when you look at the scalability, we are trying from the beginning— and as you know, in this healthcare space, there's not a lot of technology that is interoperable, communicates amongst multiple different systems. We have literally— and we've taken a lot of heat for this at 10x Health. I get a lot of people that are like, I ordered your stuff, it never showed up, uh, I tried to call, nobody answered the phone. These are all realities. And we really tested ourselves because this is what we've introduced to the market is so popular. And so my frustration as an operator is the scalability of this thing and creating accessibility and connecting systems to all these microsystems and being able to generate reports and deliver them to you in real time and then be able to deliver supplements. It has been one of the largest challenges I've ever had in my lifetime. I, I'll admit right now, and I admit that we have dropped the ball in a lot of different areas while we're trying to connect systems and build platforms and all these things. But to your point, this doesn't exist anywhere in the world, and every single thing we do, we're creating something new. And because of the demand, it's creating this capacity issue. So what I've done is we've structured a national— now we're doing a global telemedicine team to be able to walk people through their results. And we're going to make that better and better and better as we get bigger and bigger and bigger. The cost side, it's $1,300 to do the test one time. Some people are like, well, that's expensive. Well, it is. I agree. And until we're doing millions and millions and millions, it's going to be expensive because it takes manpower to do it and it's complicated. Supplements. We find that the average person is spending $100 to $200 a month taking supplements. They have no idea what they're taking. They have no idea.

Right. Back to the expensive pee problem.

That's right. Yeah. So these precision supplements are going to cost you $300 a month. Well, you're getting 100 different precision-based ingredients here.

It's a little less than $330 bottles. That's right.

And the fat carb blockers you take twice a day are going to cost you $300 a month. Yeah. Now, once we're doing tens of millions, I'm sure we can get the price down. But the machines to do this, everything is done in a controlled environment in Austria. I mean, just the shipping back and forth. So it's going to be expensive at the beginning, like anything new is. And it's relative.

These are things that would have cost you tens thousands of dollars a dozen years ago at the Princeton Longevity Institute or Duke or the few number of places that could do self-quantification and give you something that's customized based on that. But, I think a big part of this, I don't know how much of this you guys are doing at 10X yet is the idea of things like LLMs, large language models in AI. I mean, I just spent the past 5 months training my AI clone. When you go to my website, lower right corner of the website, "Hi, I'm Ben. How can I help you?" Ask me a question about health. That's trained on 15 years of books, podcasts, audio content, videos, and it speaks my voice and could put me out of a job coaching someday, which of course just frees me up to do other things and make impact elsewhere. But even this idea of a telemedicine team, right? Like if those calls are recorded or if that data is available to an AI-based platform, you can eventually get to the scalability point where a lot of the customized advice people are seeking post-test is delivered to them even more accurately than a human would be able to do. So, so exactly. So, so we, we've been all over the world.

So when you talk about cost, right, so yeah, on the front end, anybody that's an early adopter, it's going to be more expensive than when we have millions and millions and millions of these things happening around the world. The advantage of being an early adopter is you can start augmenting and supplementing your body on a precision basis, and you can start taking control of your health, wellness, and longevity. Is there an expense to do that? Yes. I would argue that you're probably spending half to the same amount anyway on a bunch of stuff if you're actively involved with this, or you're eating the wrong things and you're spending it on shortening your lifespan. Like, I would make an argument that if— what is the purpose of living if you don't feel remarkable while you're living? Yeah. And what's the cost associated with that? Well, the sooner you can pull that forward, the faster you can start taking control of that instead of waiting for something bad to happen. Okay, so is there a cost? Yes, there's a cost. Do I expect over time, as we grow mass scale around the world, and as we're able to deliver even more accurately, bigger, better, faster, we're able to use AI, which we are in the pursuit of that, we're able to collaborate with bigger organizations that have bigger resources, um, sure, the price of this stuff eventually will come down. But here's the commitment I do have, is that we've got to maintain the price point in order to forward invest in the things that we need to do. Because I don't think people understand that when I started in this business 3 and a half years ago, and you this. And we introduce our original platform. I had to get the supplements made. I had to get the logistics put together. We had to interface with micro market pharmacies. As soon as we started getting traction with the pharmacies on the things that we were augmenting for human optimization, the federal government would come out and change the rules on who can do what and how they can do it. The big pharma stepped in and started taking control of these things and locking out the ability for pharmacies to ship nationally. So then you had to go to state by state pharmacies. Then the FDA came out and cut half of the stuff for human optimization that people wanted because they were like, oh, well, we don't want you to do that because now you don't need drugs. Like, like all these moving parts are happening in real time and they create conditions while you're trying to build technologies and collaborate with partners and interface and interconnect with other people's technologies because there isn't a single source technology to manage human optimization and you're interdependent on so many other moving parts. And so just from collecting bloods and getting that data and integrating bloods into another data format and then going to the local pharmacies and telling them exactly how to deliver and then all the supplements and making sure we're bridging it. It has been the most complicated thing I've ever done in the history of anything I've ever done. And I've been pretty successful scaling billions of dollars worth of businesses. But can I tell you this? It is the single most rewarding thing I've ever done in my life because when when somebody does move onto this platform and you watch what happens, and we've seen it with Steve Harvey, Dana White, we've got a list of human beings that we've been optimizing. When you see the transformation they go through, I don't know how you put a value on your life. Yeah. I don't know how you put a value on your health, but let me just tell you this. I have no idea how to put a value on your happiness, like feeling alive. We have one shot while we're here, and to be able to feel alive and to feel the best version. I used to, by 1:00 in the afternoon, I used to sit at my desk. I'd have to hide somewhere in the office to take a nap because I was exhausted. I was 40 pounds overweight. I felt every day I'd wake up, I couldn't bend over and tie my shoes. I hated— I wake up in the morning and the first an hour, I'd have to just drink coffee and coffee and coffee and try to get myself activated. I pop up out of bed now, I hit my 10X Energy supplement, I hit 1 cup of coffee, I hit the red light, I hit the PMF, I just go through my process. I hit the cold plunge if there's one there, and I'm having a new one installed in my house. I can't wait for it to show up. And within 45 minutes, I am freaking wired and ready to go.

Ben Greenfield: Yeah. And I think that's what a lot of people have an experience. It's interesting because Because I've said for a long time, I would pay $20 for a good night of sleep. So, if we're talking about this from a supplementation standpoint, so I would spend $600 a month to sleep like a champ. And, for a lot of people who need to be able to perform at peak capacity every day and have the amount of energy that they need for productivity and subsequent wealth, $20 is a drop in the bucket. But, you know, when— Yeah, exactly. When we started this podcast, you asked me, you know, about why I was here and, you know, why I'm wearing this shirt. This is my new thing. I mean, I am becoming a convert now based on what I'm seeing. So, I'm building this farm in Idaho, right? So, my thing now is I can get up in the morning, I've got the PEMF mat, I've got the HyperMax oxygen. I've got the red light therapy. I've got my two Fat Carb Blocker packets that I take with two meals of the day, the one Precision Nutrition supplement that I take after one of the meals of the day. I got my entire report here that will eventually be customized to my food and my grocery shopping, hopefully the cool sexy skincare that you have that I don't have yet. Uh, and essentially this systematizes my day for me and it allows me to get out of bed, do red light, oxygen, PMF, precise everything, do the blood testing on a quarterly or an annual basis, the gene testing once in a lifetime. And when I sit back and see the potential in that for all of my fans and followers and listeners who basically— my life is a duty to people to figure out what's working out there and what the best of the best is and then bring that out to the masses. But of course, I love to try this stuff myself. And so now my life is becoming, oh, I'm getting up and I'm doing the Superhuman Protocol, I'm taking the 10X supplements, I've got the genetic test, I my whole report. My entire family, Jessa and River and Terran, they're all doing the PGT this week. So, I'm going to be able to have my whole family know what their food and their nutrition choices are supposed to be. So, this is seeping into every aspect of my life. And personally, I mean, I can tell you and you know this, you feel incredible when your mitochondria are working properly, your cells are working properly, you don't reach 2:00 PM and have a non-optional nap or siesta time. Once it all comes together and clicks, the amount of clutter and confusion that sucks out of your life is worth a lot.

For the price of 2 Starbucks a day. Exactly. Yeah. That's really the value. Yeah. You know, I'll be honest with you. You know, I've watched the last 5 years. I've watched you. I'm so impressed with who you are as a person and your commitment to this human optimization, the fact that you and I have decided we want to collaborate, change the world together, you being the mouthpiece for Precision Nutrition and 10x Health and going out to the world and talking about how it's changing lives. But most importantly, we start growing our food together, we start doing— we— the ability to change lives and bring health, wellness, happiness, longevity to human beings around the world. It fits right in. My partner Grant Cardone has a mission to change 8 billion people's lives. Incredible. The only thing I've seen where we could actually do that is this. Yeah. We could actually touch it.

There's been a non-toxic lettuce for everybody. 100%. Yeah.

Can't wait to build with you, bro. Let's do it. Yeah. Let's go. The show notes for this episode can be found bengreenfieldlife.com/10x. That's bengreenfieldlife.com/ the number 10 and the letter X.

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