Advanced Concussion Repair Tips, Ketones vs. Alcohol, NFT's, Fast & Efficient Energy Hacks, Biohacking & Beyond With Andrew Masanto & Jordan Fried.

My name is Ben Greenfield and on this episode of the Ben Greenfield Life.

Podcast, biohackers are obsessed with just how do you hack and optimize your health? If you can apply that same rigor to your body, you can certainly do it to your finances.

What we see it really as the birth of an ecosystem, of this new technological trend is governed and controlled by the community.

We wanted to create this information superhighway, but in a well intentioned effort to keep everything free, we've become productized.

2021. Yes, I was buying them in 2017. It was like me buying Bitcoin in 2011. People were like, that's ridicul.

Faith, family, fitness, health, performance, nutrition, longevity, ancestral living, biohacking, and a whole lot more. Welcome to the show.

All right, folks, well strap yourselves in for a wild ride today. Because while most of my guests are indeed in the realm of health and biohacking and fitness, my guests today are not only into all of that, but they're also into this idea of health being about more than just biohacking. These guys have studied up on wealth, they've set it up on relationships, and they also happen to be real experts in the whole realm of crypto and NFTs. And, and so this is going to be a fun discussion. Andrew Masanto is a guy who I ran into quite some time ago in New York City. I believe it was Dr. Holland Chun, I think, who might have introduced us. But anyways, I got a chance to hang out with Andrew and kind of see him in his space over there a few years ago. He owns biohackinggroup.com. he's a serial entrepreneur, he's an investor. He's very active in blockchain. He was the founding CMO of Reserve, which is backed by Peter Thiel and Coinbase and a few others, which is currently at a 1 billion plus valuation. He was the founding CMO of another company called Hedera Hashgraph which was backed by Google and IBM and Boeing with a fully diluted 10 billion plus valuation in crypto. Recently launched an NFT based website that he'll be talking about quite a bit as well. And he's lectured on Internet marketing at Harvard Business School. He founded and sold Higher Click SEO Agency. He's lectured at Oxford University. He is widely quoted by a lot of industry leaders on growth marketing. He has worked as a lawyer in the uk, as an investment banking analyst in Australia. So this guy is up to quite a bit. He's a real renaissance dude. Andrew, before I introduce your partner in crime who's also joining us. Say hello. Just so people know your voices.

Hey Ben. That was quite the introduction. I'm going to make sure that my staff knows. Never give that length of introduction again to anyone.

You know, people send me these bios and you know, I gotta fill people in. Hey, at least I'll help to make you credible, ma'. Am. I. I gotta, I gotta build you up, make you sound smart. Jordan is my other podcast guest on today's show. Jordan Freed, He's a blockchain evangelist, a crypto capitalist. He's currently the chairman and the CEO of Immutable holdings, which is a blockchain holdings company. He founded and operates nft, which is a relatively newly launched website we'll be talking about, as well as Immutable Asset Management. He was also part of the founding team behind Hedera Hashgraph. I served the senior VP of business development there until the end of 2020. And they signed partnerships again with Google and IBM and Boeing and LG Electronics and that kind of launched that particular offering into being one of the top 100 cryptocurrencies in, in the world. And Jordan has also co founded and served as CEO of Buffered vpn, which is a real popular VPN service online. And Jordan's been involved in bitcoin and crypto since 2012. So Jordan, welcome also to today's show.

Thanks Ben. Big fan and super excited to talk about the intersection between biohacking your world and crypto because I think there's a lot more overlap than people realize and.

I actually want to get into, get into quite a bit about that. But first of all, tell me about your guys story. How'd you meet and what's been the journey of you two working together?

Well, we have really been through quite a few companies together, Jordan and I. Our story starts dates back in, I think close to 2010. Over 10 years ago I'd started Hire Click. Jordan came in as sort of almost like CEO really. And he built that company up, the one I started to sell.

Eventually he started Buffered VPN and I went on to do Internet marketing.

And then in 2017 we sort of reunited after he just sold Buffet VPN. We reunited and started Hedera Hashgraph together. And man, that was just timing, you know. Within six months we had raised 100 million at a $6 billion valuation. Now it's at like, you know, between a 10 to $20 Billion valuation. And then, you know, he came to me more recently and it's just so hard not, you know, to say no to this guy because A, he's a great salesman and B, you know, he and I have many passions together and we've been together for such a long time. I think that's, that's one thing to emphasize. You know, we have kept a strong bond over time. He's someone I deeply trust and love and you know, our paths have collided and we've just added a lot of value to each other. So, you know, I'm really grateful for, you know, that long term relationship and for, you know, our continued success all the way up to what is now US co founding NFT.com together.

Yeah, I've got to give the other perspective, Ben, because you know, the truth is Andrew's always been one step ahead of me. He's, he's a few years older and definitely a few years wiser. But when he was just getting into performance marketing or sort of actually I would say just getting out of performance marketing and moving on to the next thing, I was really just getting into it. When Andrew and I had met Andrew, it's been over a decade now.

It was clear to me that this guy is on the bleeding edge of what's coming often before other people realize it. You got to realize at the time we were doing search engine, we were doing search engine optimization, it was still a relatively nascent industry. It's a cottage industry for those that don't know optimizing your, your search profile so you rank higher in the SEO SERP pages. You know, it's very lucrative if you can rank number one for best credit cards. That's $100 million a year keyword for companies like Nerd Wallet that do credit card offers and, and get paid out by all the banks to have those keywords. So Andrew had kind of dominated that space, had moved on and then I'd kind of come join him in some of those industries. So to his credit, when I had exited from my VPN company and I'd actually just moved to New York, it was really just, I think Andrew somewhat serendipitous. You asked me what I was doing at the time. I had just had this liquidity event. I was day trading cryptocurrency. And he said, hey, read this white paper. And it was the Hedera Hashgraph white paper. So I poured a bunch of my newly found liquidity into that project, somewhat blindly knowing more that business is mostly about people. It's about, you know, working with people who you trust, people that are high integrity. You know, I, I had been impressed with Andrew's ability to. And this is kind of where some of his biohacking comes in. Just sort of optimize and operate in peak performance. He's one of the few guys I know that can, you know, actually pull off an 18 hour workday. A lot of people say that they work like 18 hours. Andrew somehow gets it. Somehow Andrew gets that done. So, yeah, it's, it's, it's been an unbelievable journ. And then, you know, Hedera obviously wasn't the last thing we did together. I had been trying to get him to come get involved in several of the other domains I had been picking up and finally we agreed and we had to do something in the NFT space. And happy we are.

Yeah. Well, I can certainly attest to Andrew's go gettedness because I remember, I guess it was probably like three or four years ago I published a post to my Facebook group about this very impressive massive concussion and TBI management regimen that Andrew had filled me in on. I mean, it was crazy. It was everything from vagal nerve stimulation devices to brain photobiomodulation to a special brain shake with about a hundred different ingredients. And this was all based off of a discussion that Andrew and I had about his management of a pretty serious head injury that he sustained. And I, I think that alone we could probably fill people in on that protocol and they could press stop now on the podcast once they hear it, because I think it's one of the best concussion management protocols I'd ever seen. And Andrew, I'm curious if you, if you could fill people in on that little head injury that you had. Sure. How it occurred and what you strung together as this, this concussion or TBI management protocol.

Yeah. So, you know, when I dive into something, I go 110% and you know, whether that be on business or, you know, biohacking as, you know, you know, I started biohackinggroup.com with one of the other founding team, Kyle Armour of NFP.com and we really delved into it. Now, Jordan's kind of the same. I mean, I don't know anyone who was as hardcore keto as Jordan is when he discovered what he did for his brain. Happy to go into that later, but one of the things that I was looking into was holotrophic breathing, which was put on me by sort of Wim Hof. I trained with, with Wim and his trainers in Iceland. And one day, actually I was exploring sort of the fringes of holotropic breathing through someone who probably shouldn't have been teaching it, to be honest. And I passed out while upright and smashed my head against concrete.

So you were doing like Wim Hof esque holotropic breathing while standing on a hard surface.

That's exactly why this person shouldn't have been ill advised. Ill advised, extremely ill advised. Just a catastrophe. And you know, I blacked out. When I woke up, the world was not the same place. And you know, I recently had a friend of mine say that he had a concussion. And he just said to me, it's, it's a very different world when you perceive it through the lens of this gray, you know, concussed sort of state. And so, you know, I went all in then with what, what, what intellect I had left. I went all in, in, in finding, you know, solutions. Now the interesting thing Ben, is that not only did I find solutions to concussion, but I found solutions to optimize my brain and I found dysfunction in my brain which was not even related to the concussion. So you know, while I was focused on, you know, improving my, my, my currently my then my then bad, you know, mental state, you know, I got to a point where I had sort of fixed it but then I was starting to optimize for more and more based on dysfunction that I had found that wasn't even related to the concussion.

Now quick, quick question. When you talk about finding dysfunction, you know, I've done stories before on electroencephalography and this idea of using QEEG measurements to identify areas in the brain that need to be up trained or down trained, so to speak, for anything from ADD to ADHD to better sleep onset to distractibility, etc. I've done a couple of podcasts for example with Dr. Andrew Hill of, of Peak Brain in LA. And then of course there are folks like Dr. Daniel Amen who will do a spec scan to instead analysis or analyze a blood flow to the brain. Now when you say that you found brain dysfunction, were you doing a scan similar to one of those?

Exactly. So I went to Cognitive fx. I think it's in Utah. Do you, I don't know if you're aware of it, but they are one of the top.

I am there. Yeah. Well, go ahead and explain.

Yeah, they went to the top concussion clinics. Now it's interesting because when I went there I, I spoke to them. I was still having, I thought I still had some, you know, dysfunction with my brain and that was later confirmed. But basically what I did figured out with, with cognitive effects was that there were certain parts of my brain that had sort of black on the scan and thus were just not functioning in the same way, which they believed weren't related to the concussion. So they started doing training around specific things. You know, I, it was like touching very, very interesting activities, you know, touching lights on a wall or different types of coordination or remembrance exercises, etc. To improve those parts of my brain which were gray like, you know, in the scan, which may not have been related to, to, to the concussion, by the way.

Andrew, if I could jump in super quick, I should clarify that cognitive effects and I've, I've sent several people their way ever since you existence. They're down in Provo, Utah. They actually don't do EEG or SPECT scan. They, they actually do something called fnci, which, which stands for functional Neurocognitive Imaging. And that's like an F MRI of the brain. And so they, they've got, which is a very complete scan. You know, we hear about people, you know, for example, with, you know, the Health Nucleus program, which is a really advanced anti aging and longevity management program. They'll do full body MRIs and, and what cognitive FX does, it's a functional neurocognitive imaging or, or an FMRI of the brain, which is a really look at, at neurovascular health, you know, the connection between the neurons and the blood and the brain.

So I was literally in an MRI doing math problems and logical problems. And while I was in an mri, like it was wild. I'd never experienced anything like that before. And then after it, they could tell me what parts of my brain were and were not functioning. And I made the, I made the comment at the end that people should do this just generally. And they said, yeah, they probably should because, you know, everyone has some dysfunction. So that was one of the things which gave me a springboard to get even. So, you know, for anyone who's got a concussion, you know, or who's had one, you know, it can, you know, analysis like this, while you're trying to analyze your concussion can also give you a idea of what else might be wrong with your brain that, you know, you can fix. So, you know, Jordan sometimes says, hey, you're able to work 18 hours a day. And you know, my, I'm literally at the cutting edge of thinking. It's because I've been able to, you know, basically get to this, this, this point where I am, I guess, aware of, you know, the, the parts of my brain which are, which are an issue. Oh, and if you want to know what I did, to solve that. That, that was really a big, a big step.

Yeah, your, your whole, your whole protocol was absolutely crazy. Tell people about, about what you did after you got that scan at Cognitive fx.

I did so much, you know, But I will tell you the things that really made a difference. I did tons, by the way, like, you know, the neuroptimal machine. You know, stay in a dark room using orange, orange tinted glasses, change my diet. Ketone esters. I mean, the V lied. Ginger. I mean, you name it, I tried it. Because, you know, I was so scared at the time. I was, you know, inches away from ending my own life because of the depression that was. That had befallen me because of this concussion. But the things that made a massive difference, the biggest difference. There is a device called so cognitive effects. There is a device called the neuroptimal machine. Neuroptimal. And you can't buy it. You have to go to a practitioner. That made an immediate difference. The float tanks were good. I read a book called the Concussion Manual. I think that they were good. I think that anything that allows you to be in a parasympathetic state is generally good, you know, and the float tanks definitely were, were one of those things. And then, you know, I. I just made sure I had a very low inflammation diet. So not too many carbs, not too much sugar. You know, I just, I just really kind of watched it. And then after that, it was sleep and not, not thinking. So a lot of people when they have a concussion, try and go right back to work. I would definitely avoid doing that. You know, your brain is like a muscle in some ways. Like, you know, if I hurt my bicep, I'm not going to use it the next day. Right. You know, the thing is, the brain doesn't have pain receptors, so we can't tell you when it's in pain. What I realized is that the way I feel it is via mood. And I was a very, I was very, very moody back then. And then I would say final thing is probably the new calm device. Do you use that, Ben?

Yeah, I do. And the nucalm is a. It's a. It's a sound machine that includes some GABA stickers that just shifts the body very rapidly into a state of relaxation. I really like that one. I've been kind of going back and forth now between that and the brain tap, which is a. It's not a new device, but it's newer in terms of my own protocol. It's a light Sound stimulatory machine that does a really good job at almost like very rapidly hypnotizing you into a certain state, whether it's alpha zone or delta brainwaves or even like learning, memory consolidation, more rapid sleep onset, et cetera. So I kind of go back and forth between that and the new calm now. But yeah, absolutely, I still use the new calm.

Yeah. By the way, one thing I just remember, so I did use the V light. It was good. Not as good as the neuroptimal or the new calm for my concussion. But one interesting thing for your listeners, anyone who's in New York, there's this. I tried a bunch of float tank locations. This one guy, it's just his, he's literally his apartment and it's called his, his website is. He's a weird, it's a bit of a weirdo but you know, he's a savant. True and true. On blue, on, on flotations. I think it's like bluelight flotation.com or something. I'll, I'll give it to you after. But he's just so pedantic about everything that goes into a float experience that it, you know, the, the, the float tank itself is in a vacuum sealed room which is in a, I mean it's just like crazy how, how, how much protocol this guy requires, you know. And so I would say that basically going to him, you know, if you've got issues, is, is a, is a good idea as well. Not, not all float tanks are created equal. You know, there's, there's a lot of other things I did. I mean the list is almost endless.

I don't know if you recall our email exchange, but you had written everything down. I mean, in addition to what you talked about with the use of the new optimal and the new calm. Everything from the 10ml of ketone esters you are using daily, the use of, of lion's mane combined with, with psilocybin for better neuronal connectivity, the, the hot cold contrast, a little bit about the photobiomodulation, the use of the vielite. You gave me the whole recipe for your pretty comprehensive brain enhancing shake which included everything from C8 caprylic acid to chaga mushroom to neuro shroom to beets and aminos and matcha powder, et cetera. So what I'll do for folks who really want to take a deep dive into this protocol because I took a bunch of notes and then I added a lot of my own recommendations, including my interview with the guy who wrote that concussion repair manual, Dr. Dan Engel. If you are listening in right now, you're welcome. I'll put a link to this entire protocol because I have it on Google Docs. If you go to BenGreenfield fit. BenGreenfieldFitness.com I got to get that out of my vernacular, people. It's BenGreenfieldLife.com now. BenGreenfieldLife.com NFT podcast I will link to that entire protocol that Andrew put together because I just think it's absolutely fantastic. So you can grab it at BenGreenfieldLife.com NFT podcast and.

One other thing related to this to a certain extent, Andrew, was as you were explaining this entire protocol that you put together, you mentioned that you began to run this biohacking group online, which I think is a Facebook group. Can you explain what that is and where that fits into the equation?

Yeah, I mean, look, Jordan and I have always been really into optimizing our minds so that we can execute on building these projects. And.

Kyle, who is also part of the team, and I were like, look, you know, community sourcing.

These sorts of.

Because it's so hard to know what is actually working and what is not. So we decided to put a little group together called the biohacking group, or biohackinggroup.com and it was just a Facebook group and it really exploded. And so now it's a pretty active group. We've met a lot of great friends through it, and we kind of share tips and tricks that help us sort of use biohacking and use health to optimize not just our business life, but our wider life. And that's kind of an interesting theme because I consider, for example, my relationship to Jordan, my health, my, you know, romantic relationships and, or, you know, the general view of my life as a kind of more complete approach. And so biohacking is a part of that, but a very important part of it as health is. And, you know, that's, that's kind of the auspices and the sort of feel of that group.

Yeah, yeah. Jordan, by the way, Andrew described you a few minutes ago, I don't know if you heard this as hardcore keto. What exactly, what exactly is he talking about there?

Yeah, so, you know, it's, it's, it's funny because, because our, our worlds really, really collided. I, I used to be really overweight. I mean, just not a healthy guy. I'm already not on a big frame. I'm like a five foot five on a good day. You know, height wise. And I, I'm from Buffalo, New York. I just kind of grew up on the classic American diet. I'm one of 10 kids, three brothers, six sisters, and my mom always just made one thing for dinner. You know, I like to joke the reason, you know, I often get compliments, people are like, hey, you can, you can pitch, you got a good sales pitch. And I'm like, yeah, that's because I always had to sell my brothers and sisters to convince my mom to make what I wanted to have for dinner, which was kind of always like pasta or something really starchy. I gained a lot of weight. I just, I don't think I ever really understood what nutrition was. I didn't really know what a carbohydrate was. And I made this pretty rash life change. I left, didn't finish school. And really before like I was 20, I ended up moving to Budapest, Hungary. Somewhat random, I heard there was cheap beer and beautiful women. Turns out that's true. But you know, leaving, I think my American dietary lifestyle and going to a place with a lot less genetically modified food, much more of like that whole like farm to table culture. I quickly realized like, whoa, I'm eating a lot of packaged goods. Coming from the States, there's started eating a lot more produce. I learned what like a, a whole foods diet could be. And then I, I found this thing. I don't want to hype it up. It's called CrossFit. Probably heard of it, but it was just high intensity interval.

Never heard of it.

Nobody who does it ever talks about it.

So it's kind of like a secret. It's like veganism.

Exactly. It's kind of like a good secret. So, you know, I don't, I don't want to hype it up or promote it, but what I liked about it was it was the first time that you kind of get what CrossFit does so well is you finish a workout, you look like an absolute idiot. I mean there were women in this class squatting more than me. I had no leg, leg strength whatsoever. And then I ended up, you know, working up to squatting more than 2.5 times my body weight. And in that process it's just, you know, it's all of this high fives, high fives. You kind of get that there's, they build community. Andrew's talking about biohacking community and coming together. I think CrossFit got that really great. So here's this gym that welcomed me in. It was called Reebok CrossFit. Duna, if you're in Budapest, there's not that many CrossFit gyms, so this is an amazing one to drop in on. And they're the only one in Budapest that had English speaking classes. So started working out and then all of a sudden I find. Andrew, I think it was probably you who brought this to me, but this whole notion of eating a high fat diet started reading up on it and yeah, I got really religious on it. I've got, I think I have three different devices to take my.

My, my ketone levels. I do it while I travel. Actually I have a rule when I travel now when I'm on a flight, I use it as a fasting day. So I just, I fast, I fasted the entire way to actually did a 96 hour fast to fly to Amsterdam from New York while I was living in New York. Gave a speech on hedera and blockchain and cryptocurrency at a conference. Didn't eat anything while I was in Amsterdam, which was somewhat challenging because I did make it to one of those coffee shops and did smoke some of that stuff and I got super hungry but didn't eat and flew back to the States. And I love how I feel with ketones in my body. I love how my brain operates. I have all of this mental clarity and focus. I don't think the diet is one size fits all for everyone, but for, for me and for my body type, I think I got rid of all of that inflammation and I generally feel healthier, which was new for me coming from Buffalo eating chicken wings.

Yeah, yeah, totally. And I mean, honestly, you know, a big part of it is of course the elimination of the things that you would have been eating on a non ketogenic. You know, it sounds like a standard American, you know, buffalo wing diet, but a big part of it is of course also the, the upregulation of ketone bodies. I, I personally, I've talked about this before on the podcast. You know, I'm not as big a fan of the whole like saturated fat, coconut oil bomb, half stick of butter in your coffee, you know, modern newfangled biohacked keto versus like eating a decent amount of vegetables, you know, avoiding carbs, fasting and staying physically active, you know, as a more natural way of attaining ketosis. But whether you're doing one or the other, I think one of the most most valuable tools in that entire toolbox of feeling good based on high levels of circulating ketones is the use of these drinkable ketone esters. And I know that Andrew knows about this because Andrew told me he was using them way back when he was dealing with the concussion. But Jordan, do you experiment with those at all? And the reason I ask is I also will fast on long flight days, except I do use quite a few servings of those ketone esters when I'm flying and traveling.

I do. So in full disclosure, I am an investor in hvmn. I love, love their products. Their, their new Ketone IQ was something that just gives you that feeling that would have otherwise taken me probably 12 hours into my fast to get. I kind of just get it right away. And even if I've, even if I have had like a carb heavy meal prior, it, it, it, listen, it doesn't taste great. I haven't had ketone esters. If you've had ketone esters that taste great, you know, definitely give me a recommendation. But when you mix it with like, you know, lemon juice and a carbonated drink, I love these like sparkling seltzers. And if you, if, if you mix it in there it goes, it goes down easy. And I, I, I do experiment with them. I actually love this business. I think that it's super early for products like this and I'm excited to see how, how that company in particular.

Yeah, there's another company called Ketone Aid and they do like gin and tonics and like cocktails, except instead of alcohol, they use this, this one, three butane dial. You know, the same stuff that you'll find in like Ketone IQ as an alternative to drinking cocktails.

That guy Frank is, you know Frank.

Yeah, Frank runs a company.

He's been, he's been supporting ketone since way before he was cool. And yeah, he's, he's a good friend of mine. He always sends me these sample products. And you're right, the, the new, like, products that are actually pretty, pretty cool and interesting.

Yeah, yeah, he, he sends me quite a few. As a matter of fact. I probably have enough cans of ketone esters out in my, out of my garage to get the entire Chinese army shifted into a state of ketosis drinking his, his gin and tonics. But I, I don't know how much I slam like five cans a day because he keeps so many boxes of this stuff. It tastes, yeah.

You know, the only thing is that it metabolizes when you combine it with alcohol into something very similar to gamma hydroxybutyrate. You know, the old, pardon the expression, but often known as the date rape drug. And so my brother Came over one night and he had a can of the gin and tonic ketone ester formula, which doesn't actually have gin or tonic in it. It's just ketone esters in sparkling solution made to taste like a gin and tonic. But then he also had a glass of wine, and within 15 minutes he was folded over at the table, half asleep. So, yeah, you don't want to mix this stuff with alcohol, but as an alternative to alcohol, it's great. I actually just had a stem cell surgery a couple of weeks ago, so I've been avoiding alcohol just because it's. I'm a fan of the longevity enhancing effects of microdosing with alcohol glass of organic biodynamic wine each evening or whatever, but I've been totally avoiding it. And so in the evenings, my wife pours the glass of wine, I pop open a can of these ketone esters, and I'm good to go. I still get all the end of the day relaxing and socially lubricating effects of alcohol without actually having to drink alcohol. Not that I want sound like a commercial for ketones, but it is interesting.

That's crazy. So. So you drink it before you go to bed or with dinner?

Well, two. Two times a day I'll drink. I'll. I'll have like a can with lunch if I plan on taking a post lunch siesta because it just relaxes me. And then I'll also have it with, with dinner, you know, drinking it in the same way as you would with alcohol. And so, so yeah, I, I haven't figured out a way to sneak it into restaurants and slam one as. As a cocktail alternative when I'm at a steakhouse.

But if we, you know, the other. I don't know if you've ever. So I find ketone esters to be one hack that I used for ketosis. I'm actually. I subscribe to what you said, Ben, like low carb. But I found that I'm so good at. At doing low carb that I end up just going keto anyway. Right. Because I found things that have really changed my life to be able to like, enjoy the taste of something that tastes like carbs without having that, you know, sometimes it's stevia based stuff like, you know, Lily's chocolates. There' another thing I found more recently called Styrian pumpkin seed oil. It's the black form of pumpkin seed oil. And the. Have you ever heard of that, Ben, by any chance?

I've had the, the, the. The Nigella, the black seed Oil. It's not the pumpkin seed oil though. I get the stuff from Andreas seed oils. You know that they do all these omega 3, 6, 7 and 9 rich oils that they use like this cold expeller extraction for. So they don't, they don't get oxidized or anything. So they do a few black oils, but I don't know if I've, if I've had a black pumpkin oil.

Oh, it's insane. I mean, it makes every single salad taste amazing.

No kidding.

This pumpkin seed oil, the. I literally travel with it everywhere.

Oh, no, he's, he's, he's not kidding. We were just in London together. I flew from Puerto Rico to London, met up with Andrew and we had some meetings over there, and this guy shows up not just with his pumpkin seed oil, but Andrew, you, you travel with like an entire Samsonite.

Where do you get the pumpkin seed oil?

So, okay, before I tell you, and I will tell you, my, my source is the guy who created the Jingba at Erewhon. You know, okay. You know, and he was like. So I hired him to basically, you know, show me what he knew. And the guy was ex. I mean, he does like some private consults. I think his website's like the Jing Master or. Hang on, let me just double check that. Yeah, I think it was the jingmaster.com. yeah, but, you know, he's, he, he basically, he's pretty extreme in some, some respects. I will, I will say that before I send anyone to him, you know, you just like everything else in health, you should do your due diligence, et cetera. But he did show me this and a couple of other things which were like game changers. And you can, you, you can get some of it on Amazon, but the really high quality stuff you have to source from like Austria and Europe and I just get it flown in. I don't remember the, the, the website, but I'll send it over to you. But, but, but check it out on Amazon. It's Styrian pumpkin seed oil. Anyone who is, you know, low carb. That's the thing. I go to restaurants now. I ask for salad, no dressing, and then I just add my own dressing with a little bit of sea salt. Yeah, right. Like, because, because dressing usually in America terms is, you know, the very definition of how you make a salad bad.

Well, that's how you make a salad. Tasty, comma, unhealthy. I have a similar regimen. I travel with a ziplock bag full of a really good salt in my fanny. Pack. But because I don't travel, I don't travel with a lot of liquids, but usually whenever I get to where I'm going, I'll drop in local Whole Foods or even just the average grocery store. We'll have like a really good extra virgin olive oil. I'll pick that up. And during my travels, during my trip.

I used to do that exact same thing, except now it's pumpkin, it's Styrian pumpkin seed oil.

Okay.

Black pumpkin seed oil. Yeah. So you got to check it out. And it's, you know, taste wise and health wise. It's, it's extraordinary.

Might not be able to find out the 7 11, but okay, so a couple other questions here and then I actually do want to talk about NFTs a little bit because I'm super curious about this and the fact that you guys own and run the URL nft.com I think is very interesting. I'd love to hear what you're doing with that. But besides the Sterean pumpkin seed oil, do you guys have any other. And I know both of you are somewhat familiar with my podcast, so maybe you could throw in a few things that you think would be kind of unique for my audience, you know, because otherwise you'll be the billionth person who says something like, oh, I have a compressed feeding window. But, but are there any other kind of real cool things that you guys have set up in your daily routine as pretty prolific, you know, biohackers, guys who are pretty tuned into this personal optimization space that are non negotiables for you?

So maybe I'll start on that. Jordan. So, you know. Yes. Compressed. Compressed eating. Yes. Raw. Yes. Little meat, usually fish, smaller fish. So we don't get, you know, these are all things that, you know, I'll give you some of the things that I do which are, you know, interesting that, you know, I, I. So firstly, I have a problem with waking up and having an overactive brain. So I'll sleep for like six hours. I'll wake up and now can't go back to sleep. I could work, but I just don't feel great. So, you know, a couple of things that I do. I have different sleep stacks. So, you know, there are different products. So different CBD products and, or what do you call it, magnesium products, et cetera. And I can give you. So I never do the same one every day, one after another because I find my body adapts right. So I will, I will rotate them. None of them are pharmaceuticals. They're all, you know, Sort of healthy, you know, awakened alchemy, that sort of, you know, product range.

So I will make sure that I actively spend eight to nine hours. Even if I can't sleep. I'll force myself to like be in a relaxed state, you know, so I don't, you know, as busy as I am, I don't compromise on that because I find sleep to be infinitely important. The second thing, which maybe you know, which your audience may not have heard before is I totally minimize downtime. What I mean by that is, you know, if I'm walking to, if I'm at the gym or I'm walking to, you know, here to. I don't go to Whole Foods anymore, my PA does. But you know, if I'm walking, if I'm walking anywhere, going anywhere, then I'll usually have headphones in. And there's this hack with Audible which allows you to share the same audible across infinite, an infinite number of devices. That is not a well known fact. Now it might be because. Because it's going to be on your podcast.

Okay, wait, say that one more time just, just to understand.

So basically I know people like you, Ben, who are, you know, self optimized. Self optimized people and who are interested in, you know, similar things and what I do with those, those people is I invite them in. I haven't invited you, but you're more than welcome into an Audible group and we just buy the books we want and that Audible group gets huge. So my, the library of books I have to read is literally not just massive, but is very well curated because it's people like you and, or it's people like, you know, Jordan and. Or it's other entrepreneurs I've met.

Yeah, so it's different than like a lending library. You're actually you, you all.

We own, we all.

Andrew, we're getting shut down right now because you're talking about. I, I think this is the opposite of what Audible wants us doing. But yeah, yeah, it's a great.

We're just sharing books, you know, so that's amazing.

And that's a built in native function of Audible.

I think we're all sharing the same username and password, aren't we?

That's right. We are all sharing the same username and password. I don't know.

I see.

Okay, now we're all right, now we're done.

But isn't the username and password that you'd use to log into Audible the same as you would use to log into Amazon and thus you're sharing Your Amazon account information, that's the thing.

No. And maybe we have a legacy account, I don't know, but it doesn't have to be. No, ours, ours is a different login.

They're not fully, they're not fully integrated after the Amazon acquisition. Yes, it's okay. Still, it's still something.

But here's the thing. But here's the thing, right? Over the course of a year, it made a little difference. Over the course of like two, three years, it's made a lot of difference. Over the course of like five to seven years, which is how long I've been doing it. I honestly feel like I've lived a different life. There's just so much downtime in life and, you know, people are like, how do you execute on so much? Like, you know, it's just cumulative wisdom that I think I've gained from, you know, just optimizing that downtime, you know, and it's really nothing like, you know, I'll be waiting to get off a plane and I'll just put it on. And it's super interesting. Now people get really stressed out about not being able to listen to everything because, you know, you're distracted sometimes. But dude, there's just way too much information in the world to consume anyway. So even if I were to put those headphones in and consume 20% of what I gather in that, in that time, that 20%, when compounded over time, is going to make an absolute world of difference. So I'm not so focused on listening to everything that you know, or absorbing everything. I'm more focused on having the aha moments and also letting my subconscious, you know, draw in these, these, these ounces of wisdom that I get from your, your, your listeners.

I love that. And I'm, I'm the same I am. You know, I will whip out my laptop when I'm, when I've got, I got to be boarding the flight and write 150 words. I will listen to two minutes of an audiobook when I'm walking up the ramp out of an airplane. I will literally, as I'm making my smoothie, hammer out a quarter of a podcast at 4x speed. So I'm kind of the same way. Not in a stressed out fomo. Oh, I got to absorb all the information the world has to offer sort of way, but rather in the sort of way that dictates that though I do want to be present and mindful, I am constantly analyzing my day to identify spots where I can absorb information that allows me to Be more intelligent in a way that I can then turn around and present that information to my audience or to people I know in a helpful manner. And really, I mean, by the end of the day, you know, by snagging two minutes here and 15 minutes there and 30 seconds here, like you can get through a lot. I mean, I get through a good three to five books a week and you know, a whole lot more via audio that way. But it's, it's literally in very, very small chunks. And once you train your brain to do that, and once you train your brain too, once you press stop on something to reassociate and pick it up right away, it seems like it's a muscle that can be trained.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean it's, it's been a game changer for me. My mentor put me onto it. I figured out the audible hack, but my mentor put me onto, you know, downtime optimization and it's, you know, it's made, made a huge, huge difference.

Yeah, yeah, downtime optimization. I like how we've got, we've got a fancy title for it. Jordan, you have any, any, any kind of non negotiables for you that are a part of your day similar to Andrew, that, that you think would be helpful to people.

Yeah. Ben, I think a lot of your audience, you probably have the, some other somewhat stressed out entrepreneurs, right? And I think, I think some. So much of, of of my health optimization has been. And I always made the fool's choice of sacrificing my health for wealth. I was so obsessed with building myself up, making that first million and having my first exit and actually I gained most of my weight while building my first startup. And it wasn't until selling that startup that I decided to look at myself in the mirror and say, whoa, I made a crazy foolish trade off here. I have all of this liquidity in health, but if I keep going down this path, I think I'm making some pretty dangerous life choices. So for me, it's an oldie but a goodie. It's a great book. Kind of. Not kind of. It really did change my life. It's called Eat that Frog by Brian Tracy, which is all of these suggested tips on, you know, how to stop procrastinating. And for me, it was really, I was putting off doing the most important yet most difficult thing for me, which is someone that didn't come from a fitness background, you know, definitely didn't have the genetics or at least the excuse that I gave myself and that had all of these limiting Beliefs about my own body and my own ability to perform. The hardest thing for me to conquer every single day was to just get anchored and get a workout in. So today I Woke up at 4:45. I wake up every day at 4:45. The latest alarm or no, no. So I have the Whoop 4.0. Make sure you have the Whoop 4.0 because the older versions of the Whoop I don't think were great. And Whoop is fantastic, especially now that they have the Apple Health integration. So you can get. My biggest complaint with WHOOP was it didn't integrate into Apple Health. But why I went to the WHOOP is I didn't like the Apple watch. I have a, I've got kids and I've got a five year old that literally would mimic me checking my emails on my Apple watch. He would pretend like he had a watch on and I'm like, whoa, whoa. My son is like copying what I'm doing and I really didn't like how I was with an Apple watch. Too many notifications. And yes, I know for those listening, I know you can turn them off, I know you can silence them, but I just, I didn't like having a computer on my wrist. Didn't feel good about it. So the Whoop doesn't have a screen, all goes to your phone and it's got this new vibrating alarm clock. So you know, I don't have to wake up. You know, my wife's sleeping next to me and I can, I can, I can get up. So that's how I wake myself in the morning.

Yeah. And by, by the way, Jordan, that idea of a haptic alarm clock, it's brilliant. But both my sons and I, we don't, we don't use a whoop. And it's primarily just because I got on the aura bandwagon and I love the whoop, but it's like I'm not going to wear a ring and, and a wristband. So I wear the aura. But I, I have one of these Apollo ankle bands hands. Both my sons do as well. And we've programmed them to go into unwind, relax and then sleep mode. So unwind and relax around 8:45 and then it shifts into sleep mode at 9:30 and then it shifts into wakefulness mode at 6:15. So that means that even though I don't set an alarm and I naturally get up, typically sometime between about 4:30 and 5:30, if for some reason my lazy ass is still in bed at 6:15, that thing starts vibrating and Just rips me out of bed. So. Yeah, but it won't wake my wife up if she wants to sleep. This, this haptic sensation traveling up the long bone of my leg is, is great. I mean it. I think it's better than a sunrise alarm clock almost.

It's a much, it's much better than. I don't have that like, anxious feeling of like I just slept through an exam when the alarm goes off. Right. And gets me right out of bed. And then the hardest thing for me is always that workout. So, you know, I, I think it was really hard for me to get into that routine. The other thing that I do, and I, I can't stress it enough about mental health. You know, my first startup, no one knew who we were. We were, I was total private. I bootstrapped it, no venture capital and sold it. And, and, and hedera much more public. Right. When you talk about cryptocurrency and we're about to talk about it, I can feel it. But you know, crypto is so religious. Everyone's religious about Bitcoin and everyone's religious about hbar. Andrew and I are part of the founding team of hbar. And these H barbarians, you know, if we do something positive, they're, they're happy. We do something negative that they don't like, they chew you out.

Out.

And I needed some, I really needed to prioritize my mental health. So I started seeing this performance coach who also is a doctor. He's a psychologist. And honestly, two sessions a week has gotten me over those mental hurdles, gets me make sure that I, I'm anchored. And know what? Why am I waking up at 4:45? Why am I still building even with multiple exits, even with success? You know, I'm very fortunate to be at this level where, you know, I've attained that financial freedom. Andrew as well. But, but what continues to drive you, I think is so important to know what those answers are. So my two things are have someone to talk to, a medical professional that can help diagnose me, keep me hungry, can help, you know, tell me why, you know, is this behavior self sabotage or can help me correct that. And, and, and, and just getting up in the morning that 4:45 wake up just anchors me. I can start my day, react proactive instead of, of reactive. Because from 8:30, you know, as CEO of a publicly traded company, my phone starts blowing up with fires that I got to start putting out. In fact, I don't even like to call myself CEO. I'm a firefighter. I just put, put out fires all day long. So yeah, those are, those are my two things.

So you guys are obviously optimal. I feel like we could probably talk about your, your, your respective protocols until we're blue in the face. And I would encourage you because you already mentioned a few things that you could send over to me that I can feature in the show notes which are going to be at BenGreenfieldFitness.com BenGreenfieldLife.com There I go again. BenGreenfieldLife.com NFT podcast I'm gonna link to anything that you guys send me. So if you guys write out anything else about your daily routine about some other non negotiables for, for you, you're so plugged in that I feel like we could probably talk about this stuff forever. And so send over anything and everything and I'll feature it in the show notes. But, but I would be remiss not to ask you about this idea of NFT.com Now I've talked about NFTs before. I mean, shameless plug. I launched an NFT for my cookbook. I have 12 recipe cards that unlock a private cooking class with me this year. My son has an NFT collection of his art. Same thing. People get a little online art creation class with him. I, I'm really wanting to do my next book or include for my next book a series of limited edition versions of my book Indoor, and possibly even give some copyright ownership to people who own that NFT. So I'm on board with NFTs and the idea of them. But what exactly is NFT.com and how is that any different than. There's a lot of marketplaces out there, right? Like opensea, for example, is probably the most popular and there are others. But what exactly is nft.com and the idea behind that?

Andrew maybe I'll start on this.

Go ahead.

And I'll try to build the bridge from just our previous conversation into this one because it's an important one. There's so much, you're right, Ben, that we could just talk about in terms of just health optimization. And I like to think of life as like a great juggling act. You've got health optimizations, you've got wealth optimizations and wealth hacking, and you've got relationships and everything else. And very few people can juggle really well, but those that can are just masters at it. And so much of, I think the overlap between the biohacking community and the crypto currency community is really those that are biohackers are obsessed with just how do you hack and optimize your health so you can operate at peak performance. And if you can apply that same rigor, that same attention to detail to your body, you can certainly do it to your finances and your financial freedom. And I think some of the earliest adopters of crypto, that's true for them. If you look at like the just at its core Bitcoin and cryptocurrency now NFTs the whole notion of being able to have 24, 7, 365 control over your assets is pretty remarkable. I mean literally 247365 on a Saturday at noon you can send the equivalent of a wire transfer, a transaction through a cryptocurrency wallet to someone on the opposite side of the planet. If you try to go to your bank right now, whether you're using bank of America, Wells Fargo Chase or a European bank Bank Standard Chartered over in Europe, you cannot go and withdraw your entire balance in cash. You may think you can, but you just cannot. They're not going to allow you to do it. You know, try it. I encourage you to. If you've got over $30,000 in the account, they're just either they don't have the cash on hand, they're going to want a reason for why you're making the the withdrawal. You typically have to call in advance. You don't have access to your funds. You're probably limited in how much money you can send via wire transfer on a daily basis or how much you can withdraw from the ATM machine. So crypto is a pretty revolutionary innovation in that if you have a public key and private key on a blockchain, like the Bitcoin blockchain, or like the Ethereum blockchain or the Hedera Hashgraph blockchain, you have access to your money around the clock. If you have access to your money around the clock, that is like the founding primitive of the innovation. There's so many other things you can do on top of that. So we've seen seen a whole world of defi decentralized finance form where there's yield opportunities, better yields than what you'd get in a checking account. We've seen ways to capitalize businesses. There are literally startups. I just invest in a startup. The company didn't want me to invest in them with cash. They didn't want a wire transfer. They wanted me to send USDC on the blockchain. And I did pretty phenomenal. I mean the, the company wants, the engineers want to be paid in it. It's a software business. They want to, they want to receive that. And a lot of companies in 2016 and 2017 capitalized that way. We capitalized Hedera Hashgraph, Andrew and I, we raised $124 million at a 6 billion dollar valuation. Largely 80 million of that was in Bitcoin to, to, to fund the launch of, of Hedera Hashgraph. So it became a mechanism for funding new businesses. And now when we look at the trend like where we are in this trend, because it is still somewhat early, you probably hear a lot of people try to talk about where we are on this timeline. We're probably in like, like the late 90s if you, if you think about it like you know, to, or try to compare it to the dot com boom in terms of adoption, in terms of number of user accounts on the network. But if you look at the trend, we as humans objectively are spending more time than ever digitally connected online. And it seems to reason that if we're spending so much of this time, whether you're walking down the street in, in a metaverse environment like Roblox or World of Warcraft or Runescape or you know, whatever your game is or whatever you're doing online, we've already validated that people are willing to spend real world money in the gamer community. It's called RWT Real World Trading. People are willing to spend real money on characters, on avatars, on swords picks, on shields, on games.

Upgrade their powers.

Exactly, upgrade their powers. NFTs are really emblematic of digital property rights. They're digital property right protection mechanisms that are stored on a decentralized ledger. That's what another way of calling a blockchain distributed ledger technology or in immutable ledger or decentralized ledger, all all other ways of describing these blockchains. But we can store property rights. It says Ben owns this piece of land in Roblox or Ben owns this piece of land in Decentraland or in Axe Infinity or in Sandbox. And Andrew owns this shield and Jordan owns this shirt in the game. And tremendous like remarkable things are happening, like things that people are balking at. Someone just paid $4,000 for a digital version of a Gucci bag in the game Roblox. Now fun fact, that actually wasn't an nft, but it's emblematic of, of, of what an NFT could be used for, which is someone is spending so much of their time walking down the street or the equivalent of the street of the wilderness or whatever it is in Roblox. I don't play Roblox. What your avatar says about you in the real world, right, you know, Ben, you walk around in a fanny pack, which I think is super cool. Others may think is funny, but like how we dress, what we do says something about us. And you know, it's a statement that you're making. And the same is true for the digital versions of ourselves. What our Twitter, what our Twitter feed looks like, what your Instagram grid looks like, what your TikTok grid looks like, what your character in a game looks like. And NFTs are again, just ways for us to assign the rights to these.

To the, to the various different individuals there. So it's a very powerful technology. It's being used in a very interesting way. Right. Like we've got bored apes. Andrew has quickly become one of the more prolific collectors in the world. He's got some multi million dollar NFTs and, and you know, arguably one of the best collections in the world. Just, just really some of the original NFTs. And again, just credit to him for being early to it.

Andrew doesn't, doesn't own one of my, one of my boundless cookbook NFTs. I'm just saying those are, those are highly valuable. If you don't have an NFT that teaches you how to make homemade carrot fries, then really, you know, those pretty little ape pixels that you have are, are not that valuable. But, but, and, and look, guys, I should note, by the way, like, I have close, don't laugh. I have close to zero interest in the metaverse aside from education. Like, I am actually upgrading my office currently to be able to, to put on a VR headset and present to people in a far more dynamic and rich way where they can walk around a room, they can interact with my presentation, they can be there with other people in the room, they can pick things up, they can have some haptic sensation and some light and sound sensation that goes way above and beyond what they would be able to get via something like a zoom presentation by me. But I don't have a lot of interest in, you know, buying swords and upgrading powers and owning some type of virtual real estate or anything like that. But I actually really do like, you know, as a guy who likes to dink around with singing and songwriting, I love the idea of artists being able to release NFTs related to their music that are literally, you know, digital sound art that translates to things like, like concert tickets or allows an artist to get a higher royalty for a song. That they've produced or a single or an album without having to go through a music production company or you know, the same thing with something like, like real estate. I think I briefly mentioned this to you guys. Like I am, I'm actually moving to Idaho. I'm going to be getting rid of my Spokane, Washington property. And I'm considering, you know, as, as one of the possible options that I have on the table of, of literally listing it as an NFT where people can own a piece of this real estate and have access to it as a, as around the year retreat center or timeshare. You know, and I also love the idea of, of having things like, like the, the book project that I talked about. Right? You don't just buy a book, but you own a book. You can share it with others kind of like you guys do with Audible. You can have the copyright access to that book to be able to, to use it, you know, almost like Creative Commons and other places. And you can even, you know, by owning that NFT version of the book, unlock things like, you know, a book signing party with me or private Q and A with me. I think things like that. I like the utility that crosses over into the real world that essentially uses NFTs, you know, in the, in their smart contract function, if that makes sense.

Yeah, I totally, I totally agree. The, the fact that we're putting artists in control now more because we're giving them a, you know, an immutable record to assign some sort of value to, whether it be the first time that they had created some sort of digital asset or you know, as the technology evolves, maybe, you know, an evolving entry, you know, there's so many things that you could do with it, but the fact is that we are allowing them to monetize and to sustain themselves. And you, Ben, you know, you're, you're, you're somewhat of an ass as well. And that's why you're finding benefit from this because, you know, you're able to express your, your art and access as well via NFTs. So we are at the first inning of NFTs. It's a new technological frontier. There are things that I've looked at that are, you know, for example, NFTs that dynamically change in adaptation to the real world via like interaction with these things we call oracles. So, you know, and all sorts of other sort of crazy potential implications in future. And honestly, we're at a point in time where very few people have found out about them. Right? So I just feel like, you know, the, the, the cutting edge is yet to come and the opportunity to get in early is, is, is definitely still there. NFTs only blew up in 2021. Yes, I was buying them in 2017, but it was like me buying Bitcoin Bitcoin in 2011. People were like that's ridiculous. And now is sort of time for the digital renaissance. And, and that brings me nicely to kind of nft.com what a domain to own. I mean crypto.com, blockchain.com, bitcoin.com, they're all marquee pieces of this new digital universe, this web3 metaverse that we are.

Trampling headfirst towards. And NFT.com is just by virtue of the domain. We've got near 100,000 emails, over 25,000 people in our discord without really even having tried that much. And forget the phenomenal team of founders who have built unicorns before and all the founding team that joined us from Hedera and for me from Reserve as well. But what makes us different from opensea and the other competitor is, is a couple of things. But you know, besides from the things I just mentioned, this is going to be a, you know, a community controlled ecosystem. So gone are the days of we don't have VCs, we don't have like insider investors. I mean we played that game before in Silicon Valley and honestly Ben, it can be a really ugly game and it helps certain people win, but it doesn't help the community when it doesn't help the people who, who, who use and who are the real value behind this win. Right? These marketplaces reward the shareholders and the insiders, you know, and that's not what we wanted to, to, to create. So you know, on that note as well, final point of differentiation I'll mention is that you know, we are focused on this thing called a Genesis key and we're going to be launching 10,000 Genesis keys who will be the founding members of our community. Why? Why? Because we wanted these people to govern the way that the, that the, the, the, the potential, you know, unicorn of, of, you know, the NFT world because of the domain. You know, the, we, we wanted the, the governance to be, be very community driven and very community centric. Not only that, but the foundation of this is going to be the profiles upon, you know, nft.com so nft.com Ben or nft.com Jordan and these profiles will be NFTs in and of themselves, the ownership of which is governed on the blockchain. So if you get NFT Doc, if you got instagram.com BenGreenfield Life then, then Instagram could take that off you at any point in time. In fact they did take instagram.com metaverse away from an Australian lady I believe and it was in the news, but who cares? It's there that's very different for us, right? We're giving the people the base ownership of the basic unit that creates value within this, which is, is your participation in your profiles. Jordan, do you have anything to add to that?

Yeah, I, I would say Ben. I think it's really important for everyone to understand like the, the founders of the Internet never intended for the Internet to be the way it is today. In fact, many of them have even publicly stated like hey, I'm sorry, was not supposed to be like this. And the reason for that is they were all well intentioned people. We wanted to create this information superhighway but in a, in a well intentioned effort to keep everything free, we've become productized, right? We've, we've exchanged the right for free social networking, talking to our old friends, right? Exchange the right to free Google searches or free just web searches in general and free messaging. We've opted to give over our data. And if you actually look at what has happened, data has become the oil of this digital economy. It's literally the oil of the, of the Internet when you break it down. We have quite literally handed over our most valuable asset, you know, our personal identifying information to what has become several tech conglomerates that have monetized that when you build a following on Instagram or on, on Twitter, you're quite literally building a mansion on Mark Zuckerberg's land or on Jack Dorsey's land. And what Web3 offers us the opportunity to do is quite literally re architect the way platforms are built. NFT.com is really among the first of those platforms as Andrew described. You're going to be able to come to NFT.com and literally own NFT.com forward/Ben or Ben, you know, Ben Greenfield Life or you know, whatever handle you want and mint that as an nft. Now that profile is quite literally your gallery or your storefront or your, your decentralized identity on the blockchain. And we're really excited for the users. I like to joke, you know, I'm quite literally not the CEO of NFT.com nor is Andrew. We're the evangelists, we're the founders of it. Our users are in control we're going to be governed by a dao, a decentralized autonomous organization. I really do think that we now have the technology. And listen, remember, remember the Internet in the early days dial up like connecting to it with was, was a very poor user experience. That's very much true for blockchains and has been true in the very early days of blockchain. It's getting much better. And as that user experience improves, I really do think we're going to start to see a shift how the users interact with the platforms that they use.

Okay, so I'm going to repeat this back to you just so I fully understand. NFT.com is basically something that's going to be very similar to this whole idea of decentralization. A community governed portal where people who actually are part of NFT.com can do something like Mint or you know, for people who aren't familiar with that term, just basically create known your, your own profile. Let's, let's say like you alluded to nft.com BenGreenfield and there I can do things like sell my art.

Feature, NFT art or music or anything else in the NFT category, NFT real estate that, that I own, including trading and buying NFTs as well. And basically it will not only be that, but a place where people can learn about NFTs via like content and be connected to other creators and collectors of NFTs. But it's all centrally governed, or not centrally governed, but decentralized and community governed because it's a decentralized autonomous organization where basically all of the people who are part of NFT.com were the owners and the profile that we've minted, we have full control over. Nobody can ever like take that away from us or dictate what we can or cannot put onto it. You know, aside from I suppose, the, the governance of the people who are, who are part of the, the DAO itself.

Correct, yes. So the only addition I would say to that is that these profiles and, and the Genesis keys which can create the profiles initially form the foundation of an NFT marketplace and a roadmap which hopefully in accordance to the DAO will form also one day the foundation of a Web three social experience, whether that's a social network or something else else that is going to come down to the DAO and going to come down to the people who execute. But yes, this is a marquee domain which will form the basis of the ecosystem, starting with the profiles, then going to a Marketplace.

Ideally a Web3 social experience after that. What we see it really as is the birth of an ecosystem of NFTs, of this new technological trend end that is governed and controlled by the community.

So can anybody just go to nft.com right now where they're listening and start an account or a profile? How exactly does it work?

Yeah, so this is the most important consideration when you're launching anything. It's not just a Web3 project, but it was also a Web2 project. Let's go back to the early days of Gmail. Remember Gmail, Ben? You're old enough to remember Gmail. You couldn't get a Gmail account until someone you knew gave you an invite. That's how Gmail grew. Clubhouse.

Same as Facebook. I remember like I literally remember when Facebook was just for the people at Harvard. Now I was at University of Idaho and I was jealous because I didn't have a Facebook account.

Exactly. Great example. Harvard Edu email addresses were the only ones that could get in until they went to Stanford and everywhere else. Clubhouse. No different. You had to know somebody. You have to. This is a really big vision and it's going to take because it needs to be community run. You have to somehow invite the community to like come in and open up the community. The kimono for, for the community. So we came up with this really cool concept. It's called the Genesis key and there's 10,000 Genesis keys. And basically Genesis key holders become the founders, the co founders of the NFT.com community. But more importantly, literally this Genesis key, it's why it's called a key. It unlocks the value of the NFT.com ecosystem. It enables you, if you really want NFT.com forward/Andrew or Ben or Jordan, you need a Genesis Key. And the Genesis key holders are the first to make mint. Quite literally a Genesis key comes with two mints you can mint right after you get your Genesis key. Whatever two profiles you want, you can keep one for yourself and sell one. You could sell both of them. We actually are the first decentralized platform to encourage or first platform in general to encourage speculation among the handles on our site, which unfortunately is a clear violation of Twitter and Facebook and LinkedIn's terms of service. They don't allow it even though a black market has formed around that them. But we encourage it, we encourage you to go sell, sell your nft.com, ben.

You could even trade or sell your own profile.

Exactly. Because the profile is yours.

Yeah, it's an nft. So of course.

Yeah, yeah, it's it's, and it's an nft. So it's in your wallet. If you want to go sell it, go sell it. It does belong to you and I think that's just such an important consideration.

So you could even have like nft.com whatever like keto recipes and, and just like load that thing up, turn it into like a great hub for keto recipes. Maybe 100% utility to it.

It.

Wow, that's pretty cool.

Exactly. So the way you start all of this, the start of the user journey is these Genesis keys. Now if you have too many initial users, it doesn't really incentivize community building, it doesn't incentivize participation. There's too many people you're not going to show up to vote, you're not going to show up to, to help out. And if it's, if it's, if it's too small also it, it won't have the right impact. So 10,000 is somewhat symbolic and we did want to pay homage to, to these amazing NFT projects that have come before us. But admittedly.

It'S the right number of people to really form a community to submit proposals. You can actually shape nft.com with a Genesis key. You can submit a proposal and say, hey, I think we should add these features to the platform. Hey, I think we should integrate this blockchain. I really like it. Hey, we should, you know, we should, we, we, we should do an in person event where a Genesis key is needed to come to the event. All of that is really going to be community led, community governed and I think that's the future of Internet platforms in general. Right? What if we as Facebook users had somewhat of a voice? You know, Facebook makes like $15 per user per quarter, $60 per user per year. But we don't see that back. Do you? You get $60 in value and talking to your old high school friends, I don't know, maybe some people like yourself who have been, who have built a business on it. But, but, but largely for, for, for, for a lot of these platforms we've been disenfranchised. We the creators, we people adding value to these ecosystems. So the other thing of note really just when it comes to NFT.com is, you know, our, our, our model is quite different. Andrew and I are not taking a fee in the marketplace. That fee really belongs to our dao, it belongs to the community. And the community can direct even the proceeds of that to reinvest it in the ecosystem to say, hey, we should do artist grants for people who are looking to do NFT creation. We should do grants for students to educate them about NFTs and, and, and, and, and, and how they can be used. And I think, I think that's what excites me the most is, you know, it's somewhat of an experiment. But I'm, I'm very confident that user experience of using a Web3 platform is going to be far greater long term to that of using, you know, a centralized platform like a Facebook.

Yeah. So if people, if people did want to like get one of these Genesis keys, what do they do?

Yeah, great, great, great question. You go to nft.com right now, a shameless plug, a whitelist.nft.com or just go to nft.com you can't screw it up. It's nft.com and you just click the button that says join the whitelist list. You need two things to join the white list. You need an email address and an Ethereum address. If you don't have an Ethereum address, you can download a pretty great wallet. I've got no bias here. It's just objectively one of the better wallets on the Ethereum blockchain called Metamask. Download it, you can spin up a new Ethereum account. You can actually literally buy eth in the wallet with a credit card through one of their payment partners. So that's how you get a wallet. You will need eth eth to join the whitelist. And what we're doing is an auction, Ben. It's the fairest way to do it. I didn't think that I should pick the price of a Genesis key. Andrew agreed that, you know, we shouldn't be the ones deciding it. We really wanted the community to decide. So this is actually pretty exciting. We're gonna do a white list auction. It's gonna happen in the next couple weeks. Definitely after you publish this podcast. And, but it'll happen in the next couple weeks.

Weeks.

So your listeners will be able to get some alpha here. And still, and still join the white list. And you just submit a bid. It's a blind bid. 3000 people will win a Genesis key in that auction of the 10,000. And the fairest way of doing that is we're actually taking all the bids that are submitted. Let's say 10,000 bids come in or 20,000 bids come in. There's only 3,000 keys. We rank the bids from highest to lowest of the top 3,000 bids bids. The top 3,000 bids will all get keys. But they actually pay the 3,000 in first bid price. So everyone will end up paying less than what they bid, which is pretty important. And everyone pays the same price regardless of what their bid is. As long as they were in the top 3,000, we thought that would be the fairest mechanism to get the first keys out. Now, that's just the white list. Immediately after the white list, the remaining keys will be sold in a public sale. The public sale is the median of the 3000. So that 1500th bid, that becomes the sale price. So that'll definitely be more than what the people in the white list pay. And what happens then is you've got 10,000 key holders in a decentralized community helping make decisions for what could become, you know, one of the next great Internet tech platforms. And those gen key holders are kind of like Mark Zuckerbergs decentralized.

I mean, look, We've got a Crypto.com Stadium. We've got an FTX.com Stadium. Wouldn't it be cool to have a NFT.com Stadium that was actually controlled by the community? You know, that's, that's what we were thinking, right? Like, we've built unicorns before, but nothing like this where it's like, you know, and the domain itself, nft.com is cool enough, is marquee enough, enough for us to, you know, pledge it to something that is community centric, not that is, you know, venture capital centric, for example. And that's why, you know, there, there aren't VCS in this round. Right. You know, they, this is, this is a really, for us, a marquee sort of.

What do you call it? It's, it's an important legacy.

Yeah.

Opportunity for us.

Yeah. Well, cool, guys. Well, well, I'll tell you what I got. I don't want this, this podcast on, on biohacking crypto to turn into one giant commercial for nft.com but what I'll do is I, I will link if you go to BenGreenfieldLife.com NFT podcast, I'll, I'll put some resources over there and like I mentioned, Andrew and Jordan will send me some of the other cool little things that they're up to as well. But yeah, if you guys want to get one of these Genesis keys, I'm gonna get one from Jordan and Andrew. And I just think it's, it's super cool. And I'm, I'm kind of a dummy with all this stuff, so, so if I can do it, and you're listening in you can wrap your head around it too. Like, I just, I read a little bit about this stuff every day and I'm slowly learning. And you know, I, I've. Gosh, I, you know, I've been kind of dollar cost averaging a little bit here and there in the crypto for about eight years. And you know, and I'm, I'm no, I'm no whale and I'm no crypto catalyst and I'm no blockchain evangelist like these guys are. But, but it is a cool new frontier and as we move away from, at least I think I will more and more from fiat currency. I think these are the type of areas where you want to consider putting more of your energy and investments. And guys, I did want to ask you too before I let you go. Obviously when you're launching something like this, you're working busy and you might even be working overtime, maybe sleeping less, I don't know. But you shared with me some of your biohacks already. But what I want to know a little bit about, maybe both of you can each share top thing that you do, whether smart drug or nootropic or lifestyle modification or something like that that you think, think is kind of a cool little secret tip, maybe you've been keeping it to yourself, I don't know. But as a way for you to really get good energy and productivity when you just gotta bang through a long workday, what's your go to?

I have been listening to these like entrepreneurial podcasts. Not yours, yours is more health. But you know, these people who say all this stuff about like, don't sleep, blah, blah. I always prioritize sleep, sleep, diet and exercise and those things. I know that the foundations. But it's such, it's such bs, man. When people are like, oh, don't sleep or sleep less. I mean, yes, on occasion. Right, but that's it. But, but you know, in, in I opter, I operated 110. When I sleep eight hours, I operate at 90. That, that 20 is, is all the difference. So I would say those, those three things and, and the one, the one, you know, if you want to cheat code, it's a new calm device. I will, you know, when I'm crashing in the afternoon on New calm for like 20 minutes or whatever. The other device you said that probably works as well.

Yeah.

The brain tap. Yep. And then, you know, I'm up in. I'm literally about to do it after this. I got another talk after this. I'm literally gonna, I'm like Man, that was a hardcore session with, with you guys, you know, and I'm just gonna go and you calm and then be fresh as, you know. In 20 minutes, I'll be fresh as before the. The podcast.

Yeah. All right, well, I'm, I'm sorry for exhausting you, Andrew. How about you, Jordan? What. What's your. What's your go to a giant, giant ass piece of nicotine gum or what is it?

It's. It's funny. We have nicotine spray in the office, and I do take a hit of it every now and then. I definitely think we got that it was either from the biohacking group or from you, Ben. But we do have the nicotine spray. It's, It's. It's exactly what Andrew said. But more importantly, I do two things. We have a rebounder as well. Change your physiology, change your state, do like 10 minutes on the rebounder. Just a little trampoline in the office. Just like jump up and down, get all that negativity out, change my breathing, get my heart rate accelerated. We got a ping pong table in. If I'm in a really bad rut, get a quick game of ping pong in. But the other thing I gotta just tell you, and this has been such a difference maker for me. I am, am so obsessed with where we're going that I really do forget how far we've come. I'm so obsessed with like, oh, my God, we have all of this left to do to get the product launched, to get the Genesis key keys ready, to get the marketplace ready, to really launch this thing. Make sure it's like pixel perfect and all of that. And you really do just. You forget to be grateful. You forget to like, you know, give your thanks if you're spiritual. So, you know, for those listening, it's like, you know, don't forget to pray. Right? If you're. If, if, if, if. I think it's really important to just be thankful. So I do like a five minute gratitude journal that grounds me a lot. I feel totally different when I just anchor on three things I'm grateful for. I do some very serious intention setting. I use this app called the five Minute Journal. It's pretty great. You just throw. It's. It's like all set up for you. You can upload a picture, you know, just to kind of remind you of that day. Gratitude. Three things you want to accomplish that day day. And then you write some like, affirmations. I think that like inner, you know, whether it's like the inner that Negativity, the voice that talks to us, just kind of taming that and, and writing down some, just some words of positivity. Man, I do that daily. I feel so different. If I miss a day, I actually do feel worse. So those are, those are, those are my little tidbits. I don't know where I would be without gratitude. A little bit of fitness and of course, some of that nicotine spray.

I dig it. You can do a little nicotine spray and then write down your grateful for it. You guys, I'm, I'm serious. If you have more resources like I mentioned, I'm going to link to Andrew's concussion protocol and into this NFT.com site where people can get their genesis keys for the next couple of weeks. This is biohackinggroup.com but anything you guys want to send over to me that are other little tips that you have because I just love what you're up to and I love talking to people who are kind of on the pointy edge of a lot of this stuff, send it on over. And for those of you listening in, if you go to BenGreenfieldLife.com.

I will totally put some pretty comprehensive show notes together for you. And so, Andrew, Jordan, I want to thank you guys for coming on the show today and sharing this with us.

Thanks for having us.

Thanks a lot, Ben. Really appreciate it.

All right, folks, well, I'm Ben Greenfield along with Jordan Freed and Andrew Masanto signing out from BenGreenfieldLife.com have an amazing week. Well, folks, my new book, Indoor is flying off the shelves. I've talked to a bunch of people already who have expressed to me that it really is something that's been helping them, like helping them deal with temptations and struggles and taking care of their spirit and everything from like their prayer time to their, their devotions to the, their relationships. And I mean, the book covers everything from, you know, for men, you know, porn and for couples, sex and polyamory, for, for, for people who are trying to build their spiritual fitness. How to put on your spiritual armor. All about my own faith, my own journey. I wrote this book as a sequel to my book Fit Soul, and it's out now. It's ready for order. It's called Endure and you can get it@getindoor.com getindore.com I'm even going to give you an instantly downloadable ebook for the first three chapters of Endure and a big discount on the journal that I use each day with my family to do our spiritual disciplines journaling so all of that is available right now at Get Endure. Let's check it out.

More than ever these days, people like you and me need a fresh, entertaining, well informed, and often outside the box approach to discovering the health and happiness and hope that we all crave. So I hope I've been able to do that for you on this episode today. If you liked it, or if you love what I'm up to, then please leave me a review on your preferred podcast listener channel, wherever that might be, and just find the Ben Greenfield Life episode. Say something nice. Thanks so much. Means a lot.