Can a Necklace or Pendant REALLY Provide EMF Protection?! How to Transform Harmful EMF Waves into Safe Energy

My name is Ben Greenfield, and on this episode of the Ben Greenfield Life podcast, there's a simple experiment a lot of people can do at home where they can just take a little LED bulb. You put in the back of your phone, have someone call you, and there's enough energy and electricity to light up the LED just sitting in the air on your phone.

Like, wow.

So it doesn't have to be connected to anything. And so I usually start there because the average person doesn't understand that we're talking about this amount of energy that has the power to do things Just by being in the air, your phone is kicking out digital square waves.

Digital square waves, that would be like a pattern like that. Okay.

And the body doesn't create those. Those are bad for you. The more you get exposed to them, the more you're going to have problems.

What we do is we diffract the EMF, the wireless technology that's being transmitted. It diffracts it, which means it diffuses it, and then we reproduce it in a new waveform.

Fitness, nutrition, biohacking, longevity, life optimization, spirituality, spirituality, and a whole lot more. Welcome to the Ben Greenfield Life Show. Are you ready to hack your life? Let's do this. Guys, what's up? Welcome to the Greenfield compound.

Good to be here.

Thank you. Yeah. How was the trip?

It was good. It was good.

Yeah. Yeah. It's nice to be in the trees.

Yeah, you rolled into Coeur d'Alene early, right, Josh? Yeah. Have you been over there before?

Yeah, I grew up in the Pacific Northwest. Well, Eugene, Eugene, Oregon is where I grew up. I lived in Ellensburg, Washington though, as well.

Oh, super close.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But spent some time in Coeur d'Alene as well, just, you know, the lake and whatnot. So the trees are home to me though.

Yeah, yeah, you sound like an ant. Um, are you, are you living in Austin now though?

Yeah, I live in Austin.

Okay, all right, cool, cool. How about you, Nick? You, you said Santa Barbara?

Santa Barbara. Yeah, I live in the Eastern Sierra, California, in by Mammoth Lakes for around 20 years. Yeah, but now Santa Barbara, California.

Yeah, yeah, cool. Well, I've, I've been stoked about having you guys up because I get so many questions about this whole like EMF protection mitigation harmonization modulation thing. So I figured we'd put on our tinfoil hats here and geek out. For people listening, all the show notes are going to be at bengreenfieldlife.com/emfpod. That's BenGreenfieldLife.com/EMFpod. If you're watching the video version, Josh and Nick, I don't know how clutch you were in the development of these things. We can talk about that later on if you want. But, I've got these Airostek devices. I got a necklace, I got a pad, I got this thing that I put in my phone. And, these guys introduced me to these and I get so many questions from you guys listening in, especially about this necklace that I thought I would just take a deep dive finally and have you guys explain all this to me. Now, Josh is actually the CEO of Airstek and has done a ton of growth marketing and e-commerce branding for a lot of different companies. I have in front of me here, PacSun, NordicTrack, 7 For All Mankind, ancestry.com, big background in entrepreneurship. And then Nick, Josh was bragging on you, but I'll let you brag a little bit more. You're unique in the EEG space, like both hardware and software. Tell me about that.

Correct. Yeah. I'm the CEO of NeuroField Incorporated. We build EEG devices, EMF devices, cranial electric devices, photobiomodulation devices. Wow. And, we write all the software for that for clinical use and for peak performance and stuff like that.

And so, for people who aren't familiar with an EEG? Give me the overview.

Electroencephalogram. So basically what we're doing is we're measuring the tiny little electrical fields or signals that are coming out of your brain. And so we put a cap on your head and we can measure anywhere from 19 to 37 channels of data in real time. And then we can take that data, we can quantify it, use machine learning, create like a 3-dimensional image of your brain and figure out where those electrical sources are in the brain, how they're firing, where they're not firing. And then we can, like physical therapy, basically rehabilitate the brain.

Yeah. Do you know, um, Andrew Hill at Peak Brain? I do. You know, like, I went down, I took my kids down there too. We did like a week of, uh, neurofeedback training down there, and it was incredible. Like, I had areas of my brain that on my pre-EEG were lit up for distractibility, ADHD-like tendencies, you know, walk into a cocktail party and hear like 10 conversations at once and being able to focus on one conversation. That was me. And after just a week of training and a remapping of the brain showed this, everything was dialed in, like the alpha-beta brainwave ratios. I don't remember all the different things that they measured, right? But it was actually pretty incredible. You can kind of like weight train the brain into a different electrical state.

Correct. Yeah, we have a clinic in Santa Barbara called Neurofield Neurotherapy, and my wife, who's Dr. Thompson, she's a neuroscientist as well, and And we provide the same kind of services for peak performance, but also with people with clinical issues like depression, anxiety, traumatic brain injury, stuff like that.

Yeah, yeah. One, one thing I think I even asked Dr. Hill this when I had him on the show, but this was like 4 years ago. It's clunky, like all the gel and the cap and the hardware and all the things that go into an EEG. How come there's not just like, just a a way to put on a baseball cap and measure it with a signal sent to your phone yet.

Right, right. It's because you're measuring tiny, tiny electrical signals. I mean, down to the microvolt level, which is like a millionth of a volt. And so, you have to have an amplifier that is very pristine that can do that. And, in order to attach an electrode to the skin and not have a lot of resistance, a lot of noise, that's the trick. So, people have made what are called dry leads, but they have 100-kiloohm resistance and they can be really noisy. Yeah.

Is that like the SensEye device, the one I showed you in my office? Yeah. I mean, I like it. I just don't know how it compares to a clinical grade.

They're interesting and they do have clinical utility. But, when you're looking at it from a research perspective and you want to look at some of the really tiniest electrical signals in the brain like gamma activity, that's really important. For peak performance, You want to see how a brain is producing gamma and how the hub systems in the brain are actually communicating with each other. And gamma is the messenger. And with some of these dry electro systems, they're so noisy, listening to gamma is kind of like listening to somebody whisper in front of a loudspeaker at a Metallica concert. Yeah. And so, it's not going to be easy.

So, that's why you need the more complex placement of the electrodes, you're trying to pick up very, very small signals.

Yeah, yeah.

But the technology has improved. Like, our amplifier is really small. It's, uh, you know, it's an FDA-cleared amplifier as a medical EEG. Yeah. And so now it's, you know, the components and everything have really shrunk down considerably over the last 20 years.

Yeah, that one's called the NeuroField, the one you developed. One other question about the neurofeedback piece is to actually see results. Like, I did a week at the Peak Brain in LA, and I felt pretty good after that. Do people do it as like a one-and-done? You know, other people go to the, um, it's the one that Dave Asprey has made popular, the 40 Years of Zen. If you do it once, are you kind of good, or is it like marathon training or something like that where if you stop running you're eventually going to lose it?

Well, neurofeedback is, is, is one flavor of brain performance. Another is neurostimulation, which I favor. Okay, and my company makes 3 different kinds of neurostimulation devices. And the reason why we like them better than neurofeedback is that as soon as you turn them on, your brain starts to entrain and learn, you know, what you want it to learn, basically. With neurofeedback, you have to wait for the brain to do what you want it to do, then you reward it with some kind of stimulus, like a, you know, video or auditory or something like that. And so it takes time to get the result. Neurostimulation is exponentially faster. At the end of the day though, it's all like going to the gym. You have to do a series of them in order to get strong and then you have to do maintenance to maintain it.

Yeah. Okay. So, you technically would be going back for repeat visits in an ideal scenario.

Well, for peak performance, yeah. I mean, when I get pro athletes that come in that want to do this, we can really tune them to a very, very high degree, keep them there right before they're going to perform, they do their thing, and then they might take a month off and come back and start again. Yeah, but that's different than, you know, if you take somebody that has depression or has a head injury, you can help rehabilitate them to where they reach a nominal level of performance where they're good to go and they stay right there. Yeah, barring any other insult.

And then if they want to plug in and know kung fu like The Matrix, they— yeah, you've done it before, Josh? You've done neurofeedback?

Um, I have not. I always think that, um, because the video that we did with him 2 years ago, people think that we have this, like, this relationship And this is why I thought it was good to have him on the show with us is this is only the third time I've met him in person. Now, we've had some conversations and things like that, but it was a wild course of events that led us to the first meeting, which was we were working with another neurotherapy neuroscientist out of Canada, and we wanted to capture, recreate what we had already done in the lab. So, we've sent you a pile of research, you've looked at it, but we've done we've been working with EEG and our product and understanding the brain and its response for a really long time. And so I, as a marketer, was thinking, okay, how can we tell this story? Well, let's just show it. If we can really show it in real time, that's a powerful story. Because then you can show how the phone actually has, creates a response in your brain. You can interpret it how you want, but it typically looks like it's a bad response. And then we can then show that go away using the technology. So we had kind of planned this out with another scientist out of— in Canada, um, who then couldn't show up to LA. It was during COVID I think. Yeah, he couldn't come into the US. And so he referred us to Dr. Dogras. And Dr. Dogras rolled up to the studio where we were doing this recording, never met him, rolls out, looks like a rock star.

And I'm like, you know, you're ready for a polite, groomed Canadian.

Yeah, exactly. I had no idea what to expect. And so we had like one conversation before that and just kind of told him here's what we're looking to do, here's what we're looking to create. And that video now has been seen probably close to 100 million people across the globe. And he's become like this, people recognize him from that video that we did because it has just blown up. But I always like to tell people, look, I didn't know what to expect. He knew he was gonna come and do this thing, he was gonna hopefully create these results that I was hoping for. And then obviously we did, and so that became really popular for us.

Yeah, I was blind. I had no idea.

No idea. Yeah.

What was happening there. Which actually made it better because Yeah, tell me about the video.

So the video we did was we had, we work with VaynerMedia, and most people know Gary Vaynerchuk. Gary Vaynerchuk, yeah. And so this is his media company, and so we did this kind of highly produced demonstration in real time of like, again, what does a phone do to your brain, and then also looking at the neutralizing effect of the Aries product, and we used 4 different test subjects, 2 women, 2 young men, and there was some cool footage in there because they showed us in real time how much phone time they had every day. Yeah. And some of them had some crazy numbers.

You mean you pull up screen time?

Yeah, you pull up screen time, and the gentleman had like 19 hours or something.

He was a student.

They were kind of surprised.

They were kind of surprised.

I always wonder how accurate that is because does it count like when apps are running in the background? Is there some kind of facial recognition technology that— because I have apps all the time running in the background. And does it count as screen time if I'm listening to an audiobook?

Truth is, I don't even know, but I— because I'm the same way, like my Maps will run all the time, like, is that counting me? You know, so, so I don't know, but it was, it was still staggering to think that your phone was really, let's say, sending and receiving signals the whole time. So whether or not, whatever it is, your phone is still active.

And yeah, even if it's an airplane mode, like, yeah, like a lot of people go airplane mode, and now there's programs like One Tap Zap, there's another one, uh, it's just like a shortcut I have on my phone that you press sleep and it not only disables— it only puts it in airplane mode but disables Wi-Fi and Bluetooth, which sometimes putting it in airplane mode doesn't do, disables location services, which is another huge one that people don't realize. Even if the phone's in airplane mode, it's still sending a signal, and then sucks all the blue light out and turns the screen red. So yeah, you got to do more than just put it in airplane mode.

You really do. You really do. So the point is, is like, regardless— anyway, so we got some great reactions from them, and then, um, we just did a couple different variations of this test where we could get a baseline from everybody.

Baseline EEG.

Baseline EEG. And then we would have them talk on the phone for 2 minutes, 5 minutes, 7 minutes, just a variation of— I can't even remember how it was.

So they received— we did the baseline with nothing on, no phone. Yeah.

And then, and then we had them hold the phone, including baseline EEG in a room that was just like sucked free of EMF.

No, no, no, necessarily.

No, no, no.

To keep the condition stable, like an everyday condition.

Yeah, okay, so we did the same. So we're in the studio filming this. Yeah, right, right.

And so, but they did— they weren't using their phone. They weren't using their phone during the baseline, during the baseline.

So it was the same, that would keep the level consistent, right? And so, and so they're getting— they're whatever they're getting hit with, they're getting hit with, but no phone in the hand, right? And then we put the phone in the hand and we called it. So now the phone's live and we just had them hold it closer to their head for, you know, no—

and no talking, no, nothing was coming through the microphone, no earbuds, no wired headphones.

They're just holding up, just holding up to their head. And then took away the phone and then recorded EEG again. Yeah. Okay. You can't record it and have it live at the same time. It would contaminate the record.

But they were wearing the cap and everything when they were talking on the phone. So you could just start the EEG right away as soon as they put the phone down.

Yeah.

Well, we waited, I think we waited like 2 minutes, 3 minutes.

We did a full variation. This was probably a 15-hour day. So it was a lot of variations. So I mean, it was 2 years ago, but the point of it was, is we tried to recreate normal, We had a VR headset on one guy who, and so— I bet that was funky. Yeah, we did all kinds of things just to kind of test. And keep in mind, like, we knew we weren't constructing, like, a peer-reviewed study that we're going to send out. We weren't doing that. We were just simply creating a demonstration of studies that we had already done in controlled environments and things like that. Because what had become apparent working with this other scientist was he kept telling me, I can recreate these results pretty much all the time with anybody anywhere with your product. And he's like— And that intrigued me and that's what kind of led us down this path and then connected with Dr. Dogras. So I bring that up because since that video and the amount of people that have seen it, we do get a lot of questions and I think you've got, people have contacted you and said, "Hey, what's going on?" And so he hasn't been in around the product other than what I've introduced him to. And in his reaction in real time in the studio was what I always remember, which was like, he's like, I remember you're like, wow, there's this cooling effect. And that word has always haunted us.

That was the word. What's a cooling effect?

Well, so it was the wrong word.

It was the wrong word.

So what happened was, is that— so we had the condition where the phone was on, right? We recorded that and then waited and then, uh, uh, you know, compared the two conditions. What, you know, where you didn't have anything on. And anyway, so, uh The absolute power in the brain is what we measure. Okay, so it's kind of like measuring voltage out of a wall, and we're looking at the brain in different frequency bands from delta, theta, alpha, beta, high beta, right, right? And then we're looking at norm referencing. All right, so basically what I was looking at was, was there an absolute power change and in what frequency band did it happen in? And what happened was, is that when they had the phone up by their head without any Aries on it any, any Aries protection on the phone, the amount of beta and high beta went up to like 3 standard.

Okay, so when they didn't have— so like this is the one that I— so I have a, I have a Defender Shield case, but then I keep this in a little credit card pocket. Yeah, of the Defender Shield case. I have in my office downstairs this big one in front of my laptop, and then I wear this one.

Yeah.

And so you guys were using this one.

We actually used a variety of them. We put one on the phone, on the VR. We put one on her purse. Right. And really the differences between them is just the sensitivity and then the reproduction of a biotropic field. And so we can talk more about kind of how it works.

Yeah, we'll get into that.

The larger the silicon resonator, the semiconductor in the center, the more sensitive it is. And so the further away from the source it can be. And then so the smaller it is, which is like the one you stick to the phone, because it's right on the phone and all the antennas, it can be closer so it can be smaller. Okay. Right. So that's really the only difference. Okay.

There's one other piece. So we— one condition where the phone was live and no protection, right? Then we had another condition where the phone was live and it had Aries protection. Okay. So the first condition was no, you know, there's nothing there.. And what surprised me was like when we looked at the EEG, the beta and high beta had gone up to 3 standard deviations above the norm without the Aries on, without the Aries on, with the phone on. So now you know, you're thinking, okay, so the brain's responding to this. And then we put the Aries protection on the phone, and then we, and then we called the phone again, and we exposed the person, and then took another recording after the fact there. And what we found was that the beta actually went back down. So when I said cooling effect, that was the wrong word. What it meant was the absolute power in beta and high beta went down into normal levels when there was protection on the phone.

Yeah. Did you guys ever try— like, could the person see whether it was on or off the phone when they were doing the test?

Um, the different— again, the different— the conditions were all different. Uh, the length of time they were on the phone, the length of time between. We had tried a lot of different variations and— and some of the cases they knew, some cases they didn't. And the one reason why we like EEG, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but it's difficult to, as an average person, to manipulate in any way. And you would see it. Like if I was to say, hey, control— well, maybe not you, I don't know— control alpha wave, most people don't have a clue of what's going on, what's the connection.

It's subconscious.

It's subconscious, yeah.

I'm also a trained meditator, That's exactly right.

There's very few people that actually even understand how to do that. So again, I was comfortable doing this demonstration the way that we did it because we have on the website— I know we'll probably talk about the science at some point in this conversation— we had done this in labs and control settings many times. This is a lot of the work that's been peer-reviewed that you'll see on our site has been these EEG, EKG, looking at the heart, the brain, heart rate variability, all of those connected and in the same study so you can see the full connection, you can see the effect the product has. So I was comfortable recreating in this way and had this other scientist who had done dozens of these, by the way, and then contacted us later saying he had done dozens of these demonstrations with our product. So that's where I was like, I was comfortable doing this. I knew that this kind of idea of placebo with EEG was, was probably not something we had to really worry too much about. Again, I He can speak to that. But having done this now many times since, the results haven't changed. Whether someone knows it's on their phone, not on their phone, it hasn't changed at all.

Okay. So, whether they know or don't know, it seems to have an effect because that's some of the pushback I get is like, "Well, you're wearing this super pretty thing. You know it's supposed to help you. What if it's just full-on placebo?" And, if you were to wear something, if we were to take a square piece of cardboard and paint a pretty holograph on and not tell me, would it still have the same effect? But you guys are saying that you've found in, in some of your studies, whether it was this video or the studies you did leading up to that, that if somebody doesn't— if somebody's being tested but does not know what they're being tested for, what the condition is, or what this device that they're wearing is supposed to do, you still see some benefit even if, even if the person's kind of blinded.

Yeah. And I said in our actual controlled studies We are controlling for that. In the dozens of demos we've done since, I have not observed, and working with Dr. Dogras and others that we've done this with, other neuroscientists we've done this with, there hasn't been a difference, but I can't say for sure that that's not possible. Like, you know, that maybe someone's more relaxed because maybe they feel, I don't actually know, but I haven't seen it, but I can't say that doesn't happen. But I know for our studies that we've done, it is controlled, obviously.

I mean, I, I see an increase in HRV, particularly when I'm working around technology, wearing it or using my phone. And even though I'm, I'm a dummy and I haven't figured out how to do this, I've thought about, well, what if I just like try to get something that looks similar and then have my kids like mix them up and put one on me and see if I actually notice the difference, to use it as an n=1? Like, that's the thing I constantly wonder.

You could slide it into like— this is what I, I put this one in here and I can It's attached to my phone. That's how I do it. I mean, you could just simply— you wouldn't know if it's in here or not.

You could just ask somebody to tell my kids for a week, like, either take it out or don't take it out and don't tell me. And don't tell me. That's a good point. I should do my own internal test of that because that's one question I get is the placebo. And the other question I get from a lot of people is, well, particularly with the necklace, is what is this? And I have a hard time explaining it to them sometimes besides it's a personal protection device for EMF, which people get. So, let's go through that. What is the actual technology?

Yeah, and you know what's— I would start with the fact that I think sometimes because we're in this category of EMF protection, um, that's, that's where the product is positioned today. And I think sometimes one of— people want to pull us back into this, this kind of muddy, murky category of all these products that exist for a long time, whether they're stickers or they're crystals or they're minerals of some sort. And the truth is, is I don't believe that we fit in that category. And the reason why I say that is this is actually a technology and it's based on proven scientific principles. There's nothing about this that science doesn't fully understand. And so what I mean by that is the team that developed this basically took well-accepted, understood scientific physics principles, stack them together to create a specific outcome. And so what I mean by that is everything about this, how it's built, how it's made, the math of the grooves that are etched into the semiconductor, it's all available on the website. There's 100% transparency on the product.

You mean the blueprint?

The blueprint is all on there. Yeah, the math. I mean, this is a very— truthfully, it's math is what we're talking about here because we're talking We're talking about waves, which is all— we're also math. And so the idea that the—

these, these waves that we're talking about, this narrow band of, of intense frequency, um, when you say these waves that we're talking about, that's frequency, so you're saying like what we would be exposed to? Yes, like a phone or a Wi-Fi router.

Yeah, let's call it the, the EMF that we're concerned about. Okay. Um, is it really a narrow band that, that is understood? What's— how it's transmitting data and things like that? We understand that. We understand the math understands the shape of the wave, how it works, how it— that's all very well known and understood. To us average people, we don't know anything about that, right? Because we all ignored our math classes in school. But we're talking about waves and their shapes and the amplitude, the frequency, the phase. All of that is just well understood math. And so then when you— the way that this product works is the gold lattice that's around it really acts as an antenna. It's a highly conductive—

The gold lattice around this shiny mirror thing in the middle? Yes.

Okay. The lattice there is kind of the start of it, which is a way to— well, I'll even back up because there's a simple experiment a lot of people can do at home where they can just take a little LED bulb, spread the two little wires.

Like an LED light bulb.

Like a little LED light bulb. You can buy 1,000 on Amazon for $1, right? They're super inexpensive. It's a little electronic component. Component. Yeah, like a 1-watt or 2-watt.

Find any of those around here? We avoid those flicker LED bulbs.

Yeah, exactly.

But I could probably find one.

But you, you just pull the little leads out, right? And you can either attach two LEDs together to create a circuit, and they are directional, that go in and out of the LED. So you'd have to just put it so that it creates a circuit, and you can just put it on your phone. And, or you can use another little diode that, that controls the loop of the, of the, the electricity. You just put them on the back of your phone, have someone call you, and there's enough energy and electricity to light up the LED, just sitting in the air on your phone.

Oh, wow.

So it doesn't have to be connected to anything. And so I usually start there because the average person doesn't understand that we're talking about this amount of energy that has the power to do things just by being in the air. Right. And so I start there because then when it's—

It's kind of a supercomputer.

You start there because Because then you say, okay, I understand that. That's an LED, a little electrical component that I can put on my phone and it lights up just from the air, right? Just from the transmission of data to your phone. And then you realize that what I'm talking about is another electronical component, which is what this is. And so this antenna captures that same energy that's lighting up that bulb and it controls the, it controls the energy, which is what this, this gold is doing. And the shape is specific. This is a fractal matrix, as it's called. The science word would be fractal matrix. And that controls the energy. Then, the center is a semiconductor, and if you hold it to the light, you can actually kind of see there's a pattern etched in it. That's also a fractal matrix. And so, then—

What's a fractal matrix?

Fractals are, and you probably know this better than I do, because every time I start talking, I'm talking. Keep in mind, I'm— I learn a lot of this stuff on the fly. I'm not a scientist of any sort. Uh, I'm a business person, but fractals are, uh, basically repeating geometry that have a specific shape. And really, fractals have an infinite statistical ability to, um, to recreate—

if you take too much magic mushrooms and close your eyes and listen to music.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Almost like geometry kind of shape.

It is. And I mean, I think there is a lot of similarities to like sacred geometry and kind of what we're talking about. I don't know any of that. It's not— I would— I don't— they're separate to me because I only think of in terms of this. I don't know enough about that. But I have a lot of people say that because they see the patterns. But the reality is we're just talking about fractals. And fractals show up in nature everywhere. They show up in the cells of like a leaf or like trees. And they're everywhere around us. And the idea is it allows the, the fractals allow for this reproduction and of a broader band of frequencies. And so what we can, we'll put that over the shelf for right now. But the idea is the shape and the grooves that are etched in the semiconductor. And first of all, semiconductor is silicon, silicon. And that in itself is an electrical component that has the ability to manipulate energy, which is why it's used in microprocessors and everywhere else, because it's highly tunable to create a specific outcome. You can change the polarity of waves, you can change— there's a lot of things you can do with the silicon. So, what we do is we diffract this, the EMF, the wireless technology that's being transmitted. It diffracts it, which means it diffuses it, and then we reproduce it in a new waveform. And so, that's the broader band that we're talking about.

Okay. So, there's this waveform, it's traveling through the air from my Wi-Fi router, from my phone, and that waveform has a specific amplitude and frequency or a specific shape. And, when it hits this, this is somehow changing the nature of that wave.

Yes. And, it does so not in a let's say a direct wave, meaning like the wave, this wave exists, hits this, and it comes out the other side different. What is actually happening is there's a field that's being created off the surface of the resonator. And so the resonator is creating a new field, so a third field. Your body would be field 1, which is made up of multiple fields really, and then the field that the data is being transmitted on would be field 2, and this would be field 3. In this third field is where now we talk about superposition, we talk about interference, which is really the basis of how this works, which is the ability to cancel out the waves that we don't want and then amplify waves that we do want. What we see in the EEG and other tests, the biofeedback tests that we do, is we do see a stimulating effect because we are amplifying the beneficial frequency. And especially like I would say in healthy elite athletes, a lot of what I believe we're seeing, and you can jump in any time, but we do see this stimulating effect where we see, let's say, parts of the brain where they're actually either coming up or they're lowering, there's a normalization occurring, and that often happens just over their baseline numbers. Forget about the phone and what the phone's doing, we see this improve our baseline.

You mean when you're doing a QEEG?

Yeah. And so, we see this improve our baseline. And, a lot of that is because the stimulating therapeutic effect of the beneficial frequencies that are being amplified.

What would be an example of a wave that you don't want and a wave that you do want? How does that work?

It's the frequencies.

And again, you would note the type of waveforms too are important because your phone is kicking out digital square waves.

Digital square waves. That would be a pattern. Like that.

Okay. And the body doesn't create those. Those are bad for you. Uh, the more you get exposed to them, the more you're going to have problems. Why are they bad for you? Because the body doesn't know what to do with them. It's very disruptive. And so if you introduce a square wave to the body, it can control a bio—

so this is when people are talking about like DNA damage, tissue heating, calcium influx into cells. That's all in response to the square waveform.

Yeah, yeah. So I mean, a lot of technologies use square wave in order to manipulate the body, like ultrasound, right?

Or repetitive transcranial magnetic stimulation, because it's a reliable way to send packets of information, right?

Right. Square wave. And, and to be able to measure a response from the body instantaneously. And so it's used in medicine all the time at, you know, in controlled ways. But, you know, a brief exposure is not going to be bad for you. Prolonged exposure is going to be deleterious over time. For sure.

Because, you know, the body, the body is going to be in phase, okay?

The brain's going to be in phase. And, and when the brain is in phase and it's in it and it's flowing, it's synchronous, then you're healthy, you're running well, and you have access to your capabilities. But when it's out of phase, you're not, you're not performing at anywhere near what you're capable of.

And it kind of flies in the face of what you'd logically expect, right? Because you'd expect some type of predictability, order, regular square wave waveform to be good for the body and then a more chaotic non-square waveform to kind of be chaotic or introduce additional entropy, but it's the opposite.

Yeah. It can be bad for you. Anything at that level of exposure is probably going to be bad for you.

And, what would be an example of a good waveform?

What's that one look like? Yeah, sinusoidal waveforms.

So, that's more of like a parabola or curve.

Yeah, exactly. Okay. Yeah, we use that neurostimulation all the time because the body does create sine waves. The brain is a sine wave generator, basically.

What do you mean you use it in neurostimulation?

So, uh, we use cranial electric stimulation to help correct different problems with the brain. For instance, like, um, memory issues. All right, so if I, if I do—

I have a Circadia Fisher Wallace, by the way, like a stimulator for relaxation.

That's a biphasic square wave. Oh, okay. Yeah, that's not what we're talking about. No, it's a 15 kHz biphasic square wave. It's not— that's not what you want to necessarily try.

However, it's up to you.

But so, so put it this way. So like when you're a kid, right, if we measure theta in your temporal lobe and we measure it in your frontal lobe and we take those two waveforms and we superimpose them on top of each other, they should have zero difference in phase. They should look like one waveform. Okay. As you get older and you expose yourself to different things, then you start to go out of phase. Phase. The more out of phase you get, the more you're going to have problems in those regions of the brain talking to each other. Once they achieve like 180 degrees antiphase, now you're going to have significant problems like frontal temporal dementia, Alzheimer's, you know, that kind of issue. Um, and so when we do neurostimulation, we bring those areas back into phase. All right, so this is a practice we've been, you know, working on for over 20 years now. Okay. And so when I came across this technology, what's interesting is, is that if you have something that actually can help correct phase in a room, right, it's not going to be disruptive to you. It's going to help your body to do what it knows how to do. Yeah, it's the best doctor in the room, you know.

So, so what if— let's say the wave is kind of— let's say the wave is attacking me from the back, right? You got— this is like my setup downstairs. Even though I don't have Wi-Fi here, if I were to turn the router on, it looked like this. Like I've got this in front of my computer, but the router's back there, so it's kind of like hitting me from the back. Isn't it hitting like my body before it gets to this device that I have next to my computer in front of me?

The answer is no. What's happening is if there's enough energy being emitted from behind you, there's enough to create this third field that I described., which is actually a 3-dimensional field. And that's the way, again, that's, this is where, like I said, if you look at the studies on the site, the recent one we did, which was peer-reviewed, it was also published research. This one specifically was on, it's what our patent, our recent patent was based on. It was presented at the International Information Technologies Congress in London just 2 years ago. The team that did the peer review did the, to this presentation. And the reason why I bring that one up is because there are all these different simulations that you can do around this 3-dimensional hologram that's then created. And that the, the more energy— the, the ironic part is the more energy that's being created through these, let's say, the negative EMF that we don't want, the, the bigger and more powerful this field then becomes.

And so because it's almost like an energy vampire, it's like sucking up the actual energy that's in the room. Yes. And converting that into the more— it's like a photo waveforms you guys are talking about.

Think of like a hose, like the more water, the more pressure it's going through it. And I have a nozzle that then changes, spreads out, spreads it out.

That makes sense. Is there— because, you know, you hear about— you hear things like you talk about photobiomodulation earlier, like the human beings produce light. I think my dad originally showed this to me, how you can take like a GDV camera, gas discharge visualization camera and somehow photograph that light. Do you guys have a way of like showing this field that you're talking about? Like, can you visualize it or measure it somehow?

This comes up, this comes up pretty regularly, and we have had, uh, different ways to visualize it. A lot of people go to like, okay, the EMF reader, they go to the oscilloscope, all these different things that were, that are, I would say, more common and more accessible. Yeah, those don't tend— EMF readers don't work because you need the external field present that's more powerful. It's going to show up on the EMF reader.

And if I use one of those EMF readers, will it differentiate between the two different waves?

They're not, they're not sensitive enough. They're not refined enough. They're looking at specific—

that's my impression. You can't measure a square waveform versus a sinusoidal waveform with an EMF meter.

Yeah, it won't work. And so that's not a great, great test. This oscilloscope's similar in the fact that it doesn't have a broad enough spectrum. And the way that this works, where waves are mixing, and the way that interference works, both waves are present and mixing together that you can't isolate each one individually. So, there are ways to do it and we've talked about a few. A lot of our science has come from Europe and Eastern Europe and around, and it's also some of it's a little bit older. So, we have better technology than we did when we first— this is actually this newest generation of this this semiconductor is far more powerful than most of what was in our studies, our original version of it. And so this one's actually more powerful. The recent study that we have— Do I have that one? Yeah, yeah, that's the same one.

I want the best.

Yeah, you want the best. We have a new one coming out though that's actually twice the sensitivity and power as this one, which I'm super excited about because I actually wish everyone would have the larger ones. The one on the phone is great because it's so close.

That one works. You mean you wish everyone would have this one, this big one?

Yeah, but exactly, because now I can take that one and what's on your neck— the future iteration of this will now have the same level of power of that larger one, but you can always have it on you. So to have that always-on stimulating effect will be so beneficial for so many people.

Yeah, because I'm not gonna wear this thing, it looks stupid.

Yeah, exactly, it's too big.

Yeah. Okay, so, so the idea here is that If the field is in the room, it's adjusting the strength of that field, and then it's producing a biological impact on me, but the field strength isn't necessarily diminished, it's transformed. Am I using the right words? It transforms what you guys call it. So this is, this is probably the biggest thing. I mean, this even— you guys, I think you, you heard this, this came up in the past couple of months. Somebody was like, well, I don't think the AEROTech device works because it's not shown to to reduce the field strength. It's only been shown to have a biological impact, and therefore it could just be a placebo effect. But what I'm hearing from you guys is that the premise is incorrect because the goal is not to reduce the field strength.

Exactly. Uh, one of the things that the original— one of the original, like, ideas and instructions behind the product was actually for military application. And the Dimitri, who's the founder, his father is actually inventor.

And, uh, who's Dimitri?

Dimitri is the, the founder of Aries. Okay. And so Dimitri and I, you know, work together. Dimitri focuses mostly on product and I do most of the business building and, and stuff like the marketing and things like that. Um, Dimitri lives in Canada, lives in Toronto. Um, and his father's the, the engineer, the, the scientist behind this, the original kind of creator of it. But the original charge back in the '90s was to create a solution that didn't disrupt satellite communications and what they were doing in the military. There was these remote missile operator, uh, trailers that they were working in, and the teams were, were having issues, uh, with health and staying healthy and staying cognitively sharp.

Yeah.

And they identified that this was from the EMF that they're exposed to. And keep in mind, they're in metal boxes filled with computer equipment. Yeah, there's a lot.

Peanut butter, powdered coffee.

Yeah, exactly. And so the charge was make a solution that does not disrupt the communications but mitigates the effect. And so that was the initial kind of platform that we built from. That was in the '90s. And so over time it's been refined and gotten smaller. Really what has improved has been— I think it's lithography— the ability to etch on the semiconductor has just gotten better. So the finer, the deeper the grooves go in there, and the ability to diffract, all that has gotten so much better over the years that we're able to make this small.

I didn't even realize it was a groove, honestly, like until we were having this. I thought it was just like a pattern, but you're telling me, like, if I think of a microscope, there's actually little grooves in here?

Yeah, and again, on the website, you can actually— there's the math of the grooves. You You can see it, there's the schematics are on there. I'll tell you this, we are a publicly traded company, and I think that's, we have a different level of scrutiny and rigor that we had to go through than virtually, I would say most other wellness companies, but also people specifically in this space.

It was 3— Is it on the US exchange?

It's actually dual listed right now in the US, actually US, Europe, and Canada. Before we listed, The primary is in Canada. The stock, the ticker symbol's Wi-Fi. And in the US, it's AAIRF. American Aries is the name of the company on the stock exchange. But before we were able to list, the investment bank that takes you public, that does, raises the money to do all of that, they were required due to the securities commissions of all the different countries that I just mentioned, They had to do their own third-party testing. And I don't typically, like, we don't do a lot of third-party stuff that we talk about. We mostly only talk about peer-reviewed and published studies that we've done. But they did their own third-party research, what they did in the US. And they had to really demonstrate the effect that the product does and in the back of the claims that we said that it did. And I would say we aren't talking about a lot of the physiological stuff that we're talking. We're saying that the, The product creates this field that we've talked about, it modulates EMF. That's what their work had to do because nobody was going to touch whether or not that's beneficial for humans or not. That was not what they did. They verified was that the waves, that we had the ability to modulate the frequencies. That was a 3-year process to do that. So, then we're listed and we're just held to a different standard. I can't make the claims, I can't do the things that a lot a lot of people in this space do. I can't put your face without your permission next to my product, which is a lot of people do in this space. They'll throw a clip of Joe Rogan up, they'll throw Huberman up and all these people and mingle the two together as if those guys are endorsing their product. We just can't do that.

People still do that with me, it pisses me off.

I was gonna say, I see your face all the time.

I got tagged on Instagram, some random supplements company from China, I think last time, and they just got my name, you know, smiling like a clown.

Yeah, we see it all the time. We get tagged, We get tagged in a specific kind of—

I used to think it was cool. I was like, wow, they really made it. Now it's just pissing me off.

Free publicity.

I did not approve of that. Yeah.

We see it all the time though. We see people take our ads and there's another company that makes a microchip, a similar story to ours that doesn't tell you how their product works, but they use a lot of our ads.

Yeah, well, that's what I was going to ask you. A lot of people are under the impression, because I get this too, I don't have the Dot in my phone anymore. Actually, your guys' Dot in my travel computer downstairs. Stairs. And people like, oh, that's one of those things. Yeah, there's like a billion of them on Amazon. What do you tell people when, when they say, gosh, I've seen like, you know, 18 versions of this at the Healthcare Expo where people want to come?

Yeah, muscle test me, you know. Yeah, I, uh, this is why I started the conversation. Like, people try to pull us back into that conversation. Yeah. And the one thing I would say is like, we spent a lot of time of just building bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger, and I don't spend a lot of time in those conversations. I truly don't. And because you know how it is on the internet, that is the conversation on the internet, and we just try to avoid it and we try to point people back. I'm never gonna try to convince anybody. What I would steer them towards is like, let me help you educate to become a better advocate for yourself, and then you can go determine. I'm not gonna try to convince you. That's a losing battle in most cases. Yeah. And so, but let me help you understand good science, bad science. At the end of the day, you're still gonna have to make a decision. Decision for yourself, and I'm not going to try to change your mind on that, but let me help you. And so we spent a lot of time on educating people on how to understand and interpret science, direct people to other resources on that. And like, you had the gentleman on the podcast a few weeks ago talking about his product, and the Waveguard guy. Yeah, and I didn't really know who he is. Like, I spent a lot of time on other products, and I just, I struggle with that a little bit because he spent an hour talking about how great his science was and everyone else was bad. And so I was like, man, he must have some crazy papers on there. And so I took a peek and I was blown away. Like, the logos of FCC on there, which you buy and you pay for those, they don't mean anything. And then he has some studies on there that showed no results. And I'm like, these are public, and he's saying he has the best science and then trashing everyone else's science. I just don't like that. Like, that's not— I don't care what he does. He can go do that, or other companies for that matter. It's just a weird world. That's why I'm like, people try to pull us into that.

Yeah.

And we are—

the stuff that we're working on, like with Dr. Dogras and some of the stuff we have coming up with athletes and sports teams and leagues, we're just talking about—

it's not just like 4 people doing pre and post EEGs, like the story that you started with. Like, you've got, you got more studies than that.

Yeah, yeah. There's over 40 studies on our website, and I'm not talking like, you know, bought and paid for third-party independent review stuff. I'm like, this is peer-reviewed research that spans decades.

If I was sitting next to you on an airplane and asked you what would be one of your favorite studies in terms of one that, that's the most powerful story for you, what do you think?

I really like, uh, well, there's, there's maybe two that come to mind. If I was to start this company over again, I probably would not have went to EMF protection for humans. Really? No, I would have went to bees. And bees, bees. Yeah, because I like honey. Yeah, I think bees, number one, um, if you look at like, you can Google EMF and let's say sharks or crustaceans, and no one's mad about the fact that there's published papers and research that's come out in the last weeks, months around the internet pipeline that goes through the Atlantic and the crustaceans that are being deformed and all No one's mad about that. We all accept that. It's an easier conversation than me telling you your phone's toxic.

Unless you love crustaceans and sharks, and more people love bees.

Yeah, but my point is, is if I was to talk about animals, and I was to talk about insects, those are easier conversations to have. It's easier to test. It's easier to get funding for. It's just easier. And the impact and the scale that I could grow is significantly different. And I'm not being pulled back in these conversations with, I would say, products that are just unsavory. You know, and so I really like some of the stuff that we've done with bees. We're in the middle of a 2-year study with a large beekeeping organization out of Quebec, and it's an observational one that's gonna lead to a bigger, more controlled study. But the feedback that we're getting is just mind-blowing. Like, the survival rate of their colonies through winter.

Really?

It's unbelievable. And so they're being—

You mean like with one of these devices, like inside the hive?

Yeah, we use the bigger one inside the hive. 5. Huh. Yeah, and there's some other crazy things that have been reported.

Like, wonder if the honey, like the antioxidant content, everything like that changes. I'd be curious.

Yeah, but what's— what we're finding is their ability to communicate, to stay organized, um, to defend themselves. And if anyone has paid attention to like the bee colonies, you got like the guards at the door, you got the people that take care of the queen, you've got all the people building— like there is like an order to that. And the EMF is extremely disruptive and disorienting. And, and the— and it's one of many environmental stressors for bees. And so it's just a different conversation to have if I say, hey, this is a tool, or this is a technology that's passive that can be put in there and actively protect. No one's going to argue with me, right? And we can easily test that. So for me, those are some, some areas that I would have probably pushed into. And we have studies on that, and we're in in the middle of another one. So that's one. And then the next one I would say is I really am fascinated by, and the more that I talk to Dr. Douglass, and he's heard me say this now in the last few hours today as we've been hanging out, the ones related to math I really like because math is math. Like where we're quantifying things, we measure things, because those are like, it's black and white. Math is black and white. It's either right or it's wrong, right? It's not great, otherwise the math doesn't work. And so the other study I'd point to is the most recent published study, peer-reviewed published study that we did, which was I think 2022. It's on the website. It's probably, and the reason why is 'cause our recent patent is based upon that research. And so it's a global patent that's on the function of this and the ability to protect biological organisms. And so I like that one because it's been scrutinized by a lot of different groups around the globe, uh, and then the success of that, it was they were invited to then present the findings, and then that was then published. So I really like that because it— all the questions that everyone has, because we're all not scientists, and so when I talk about frequencies and we talk about wave theory, which is fascinating, um, it's math and it's well understood, and that is outlined in those that research. So I really like that because it's black and white, it's math, it's provable, you can recreate it, you can reproduce the results, and it's been hammered on by smart people.

What kind of math are we talking about? Like you're measuring the waveform change?

Yes, let's say again, you're talking about phase, frequency, amplitude are all shapes that we're talking about, right? And so the ability to then, what happens when it then interacts with, again thinking of wave theory, if you've seen like the slit test, test where a wave, you know, hits one slit, two slits, three, what happens to that wave and how is it vi— and how does it come back to get, like, all those things. That's all math-based, right? And so your ability to recreate that through computer modeling and simulations is, is what I'm talking about. And so that's where, okay, we can say the depth of the groove, the shapes of these grooves that are in the semiconductor, uh, the ability to diffract and create that non, nonlinear output which means— what I mean by that is the— a linear output would mean that, that EMF wave that's coming in, this new one would have to have some correlation to that, that initial input, right?

Right.

So these nonlinear outputs that are being created are, are mathematical equations, and you can find all those on the website, right? Like, that's what has been tested and peer-reviewed many, many times.

How do you measure the nonlinear output? So if you're not using like Oscillosator or one of those, uh, EMF meters or something like that.

Again, that's where I go back to, like, that's all great because you and I think that we think visually, right? When you're talking to people that are in the space of frequencies and waves and things like that, it's very ma— it's, it's very much they can create models and simulations based upon the math equations. And that's what I'm trying to say is like, everybody wants to use these meters, they want to visualize, they want to know for themselves, but The sophistication of a consumer-based tool isn't there.

There's way more in the room than just a—

Yeah, exactly. What tool are they using in the studies though?

They're using— it's mathematically equate. They're gonna use an equation and they're gonna use a simulation of, okay, what happens with this particular input of, let's say, 28 GHz? What happens when it— then this interferes with that?

Okay, I got you. So, it's an indirect study. Direct simulation based on an algorithm that is predicting what would theoretically happen to that waveform if you were exposed to— yes, to the, the Wi-Fi or the phone or something.

That's a good way to say it. And, and I want to say this in a way that's like, okay, these aren't— these are theories, but it's— yeah, it is mathematical equations that are like provable. Yeah, like it's not like if we threw paint at this window 100 different times, how many times would get the same result, right? And we would try to then come up with equation and prove that. No, it's the inverse of that. It's like we all— we know with certainty of the outcome based upon math because there's no variable that we don't know.

People ask me if it affects my ability to be able to take messages or make phone calls or the actual power of the phone. I haven't experienced that. They don't know I've experienced those. I sleep in a— I should show you guys— I sleep in a Faraday cage up in the bedroom. It's a little like push-button remote control shielded feeling me. Yeah, it's— and your, your ability to make calls and send messages almost disappears. But it doesn't actually affect the, the function of the device, does it?

No, the transmission of the data is not interfered with. Okay. And again, that was the original, like, inception of the product. That's what the goal was, was to, like, how do we modulate the EMF in a way, um, without disrupting the communication? And so I see a day like where this is built— we become, I would say, the catalytic converter. I don't know if that's what you like, muffler, but like the catalytic converter of, uh, of, of technology, because we can mitigate that emission in a way that's, that's, uh, especially if it was built into everything, then it's a completely different world.

That would be—

you mean you can take this and, and build it into a router or build it into a phone case rather than being a standalone device?

Yeah, you, you'd want it close to the electronics because it's generating the field based on what's coming out of those.

Yeah.

And so, yeah, it's going to be even bigger.

You guys have to license the technology to do that though. Like, you wouldn't want to make Wi-Fi routers.

No, no, I do not want to be in the business.

Yeah, I was going to say, like, you're going to make a bunch of SKUs and shoot yourself in the foot.

We have a lot of discussions pretty regularly on, um, with different partners, a little OEM partners, anything like that. And I think we, we did a test with a sleep technology company. I don't think they're in market yet, but that they've integrated into theirs. And sleep is a really interesting one because that's probably one of the first areas that people experience some level of disruption from EMF.

And the most important area of your life, time of your life to protect yourself.

And athletes talk a lot about it. I think Tom Brady wrote about it in his book. And like, anyways, a lot of people talk about it, so it becomes very approachable. And for some reason, we all accept it as like, okay, that area of my life, I get that EMF might be harmful, but everything else, Nah, we're good. So sleep technology is an interesting one, but I did that one mostly to like test my supply chain to build something that was out of my current lineup. But I expect we'll have some more stuff rolling out here that's similar to where we take our smallest one. It would be tiny. It would just be able to build it inside of the phone.

The way I think about the sleep piece is like I'm not gonna be a total Luddite or go move in with the Amish or whatever. So I'm going to use technology during the day, But because I'm obviously not checking emails and doing work while I'm asleep, yeah, there's no need to have the phone on. That's the place where I can really heavily focus on EMF protection, you know. Yeah, stupid Faraday cages and all this. Like, that's the area I tell people, hey, if you're going to focus on one region of your house or your living environment, focus on the sleeping chamber because that is where you can get a little nerded out. Yeah. And then still be like a normal person using the convenience of technology during the day and then just kind when you work out and you recover, same thing. It's like you're working out during the day electrically and then recovering non-electrically at night, at least with non-native EMF. The devices obviously vary. You got this little square one. This is the one I keep in my phone. I think you said you have that one on your phone too. And then, I wear the necklace and then I have this one, this bigger one in front of my workstation downstairs where I have a lot more technology. And then, I have little dot I used to have on my phone, but I have on my travel computer now, uh, next to the keyboard. Are those the 4 main devices you guys have?

Yeah, we have another small one that's similar to the one on your neck, um, that was originally developed for pets. Okay. And, uh, I found that it worked really well for children because, number one, I don't think we're thinking enough about the children, um, babies, all the way, you know, just all the animals.

Couple for my pets and I give them to my boys.

Yeah.

I'm more concerned about my kids than my dogs.

So that's what I learned too. So from the feedback I learned from consumers was I saw this trend develop where it was like, it was really easy to clip it to the backpack, on their keychain, whatever it was, and they weren't mad about it. You put something on a kid's phone and all of a sudden they get made fun of or whatever, and that became a thing. So that's the only other one that's in that lineup. Like I said, we're working on some additional kind of form factors, and I always think of this as it looks like an, anyone that remembers Radio Shack. This looks like something I could walk in a Radio Shack and buy, like, as a component. That's what it looks like, and it truly is what it is. Yeah. And so we haven't spent the, the money or the time to really come up with this industrial design that's Apple-esque, right? Yeah.

And so how many of them do you need? Like, the way I've always thought about it is like one per device or near each device. But like, if I have, let's say, like, have this big one in my office, does this cover the whole average office, or do you, if you You guys ever looked in like how many you need per area of the house?

Yeah, again, that's on the website too. There's again, through kind of sophisticated modeling, that's all on there to say, okay, what's the effective range? But it does, there's kind of two facts. Proximity, as you know, with EMF is really the name of the game. So the closer to the source, the smaller this could be. But the smaller it is, the smaller that this field that's being created, —this new field that's created is really what we need because that's where the interference occurs. And so, we do want that. But look, if—and I know that's not the cheapest product on the planet for EMF protection, but it is like true technology. We are fighting for—

I forget how much does something like this necklace cost.

And I forget too because we sell— Like ballpark. We ship product to 70 countries every month and all I see is different currencies.

It's like more than $100. It's more than $100.

The one that goes on your phone is probably around $100. $100. We pretty much are always running a deal, and if they go through your site, they always get a deal. And so, or through using your code, they always get a deal. And so we do try to make it affordable and approachable for most people, but we are talking about a microprocessor. We are talking about silicon, which is gold in today's world. And we are running it on the same machines that every other computer manufacturer is running it on. So it isn't a cheap thing to make. This gold immersion technology which is one of the most conductive materials, and then it's a printed circuit board. I mean, this is a circuit board is really what we're talking about. That's what this is. So this— everything here is an electrical component that's made in all this— the facilities that, that your computer is made in. Yeah. And so it's not a cheap thing to make.

What if you made a really big one? Like, what if you made like a bed? Like one of those, you know how they have like those treatment therapy beds? Would there be any benefit to having like a piece of furniture that I could just lounge in at home that was embedded with this technology?

I have my response to that, but I would also be curious in his response to that because he does understand what's happening. We have models of that. We actually have large struck pieces of this that can be placed in buildings.

There's at least like 6 effing rich biohackers listening in right now who are perking up as you're talking.

Yeah, let's just say there are There are structures that have been built with this geometry that we've built. Really? Yeah, in Scandinavia and—

So when you say structures, you mean like— Like your room.

Yeah, yeah. And to really create—

Have you been in one of them?

What's that? Have you been in one of them? I have not. I'm hoping to this summer. That would be cool to check out. I'm really curious about it, yeah. But look, there's a lot of—

I'm building a house right now. You guys can sponsor a room.

Yeah. I mean, look, I might be into that. I say that because I have a lot of questions, right? Like you would. But the ability to create that field that he's described and I've described, what is the outcome? So this is the other thing I'll, I'm curious what he wants to say to that. There's one thing I wanted to say is where we are spending a lot of time as a brand in the company right now is to really understand what's happening at the physiological level. Like we already know this is doing what it's doing. We aren't really trying to prove that anymore. Where a lot of companies I would say in this space in the space are really focusing on proving that their product is doing that. We haven't been doing that in a long time. And because I don't know, we don't need to. The only reason I would need to is to try to convert people that don't believe. I don't spend a lot of time with those people. And so now what we're trying to understand is what's actually happening at the physiological level. What's happening in the brain? What's happening in the heart? What's happening at the cellular level? What's happening with the proteins? Like, so we're doing some research right now. We're about 6 months into another one I'm really excited about. Um, something happened when we did a, an EEG scan with Macy Barber, um, the UFC fighter. Yeah. And she's been an awesome partner. I love her to death. Um, she had had a brain hit right before we did this EEG scan with her. Yeah. And she didn't tell us that she had had that. And, uh, so, so the gentleman— it wasn't Dr. Doger, it was somebody else— was doing the scan and he took him like an hour because he kept getting this noise, as he described, like this noise in the, in the, this, this, these results. And he kept thinking it was the cap, he kept straightening it.

This is why I don't fight.

Yeah. And then she says, she's like, oh, I probably should have told you that I have a concussion about 48 hours ago, or whatever it was. And so we had seen in, in the result, and again, I don't— we haven't published, we haven't talked about it because I don't think it the best, it's a topic that I would say, hey, I would rather do more research on in a controlled environment than go out publicly talk about it. But we did go do that research. So we're again months into this now where what we saw was, we saw the brain activity, you could see the region that was lit up, it was inflamed, you saw that in the EEG scan and you would be able to tell exactly what we were seeing. I just saw a lot of like red, hyperactive waves and a bunch of like slow-moving waves. Then, we saw within just 5 minutes with the product, the technology near and on the phone, we actually saw this effect, this blob, this inflamed blob was really actually shrinking. What that means is that hyperactivity was coming down and that slow wave was coming up, and so there was a normalizing effect. I took that information. We didn't publish that because I didn't want to—

What did she do, wear the necklace?

She had the necklace. I think we had it on her phone too. She just had it on her phone. And we then, I took that information and went to my R&D team, which is in Europe, and told them, hey, here's what I saw. So we've been recreating that now in a controlled environment. And like I said, we're several months in to doing a longer-term study on this with about, I think, 24 different subjects. So I'm really fascinated in the results that we're seeing, but we wanna get that peer-reviewed. We wanna send it out to a bunch of other people that do that. But that's a really interesting, area. Like again, we're talking about different things now, like what is actually happening in the body, where can we apply the technology to humans, but also like I said, animals, insects. I get really fascinated about that kind of stuff. But, um, so that's where we're going as a company. Like, well, how do we apply this? How do we, how do we do that? So a lot of our research and science is that direction. I'm not really trying to worry about proving stuff that's working anymore.

Yeah, I mean, look, the way I think about this is like I was saying earlier, We're not going to stop using these devices for the most part. Um, and I'm very cognizant of my use of technology, like even like freaking like Bluetooth on my laptop. Well, I have that off, and then phones are always in airplane mode unless I need to have them on. There's not a freaking like smart appliance anywhere in this home, uh, that at least doesn't have the ability to be able to disable Wi-Fi or adjust the frequency output or something like like I'm kind of a fan of the stupid home concept. You know, if you guys try to connect the Wi-Fi here, there is none. You have to hardwire using an Ethernet cable. So I think mitigating exposure as much as you can is smart. But then I'm sure you guys agree with me on this, you, you pair it with tools like this that when you are using the device actually protect you. Like, I, I tell my audience, don't be an idiot. Like, just have your phone in airplane mode if you don't need it on. That's the thing that annoys me most when I'm stuck next to somebody on an airplane. On an airplane, I look over them and not only is their phone not in airplane mode, so it's just blasting me searching for a signal the whole time. That's the worst. Like when you don't— when you don't want to— yeah, at least half the people on the plane, plus the Wi-Fi is on, plus their Bluetooth, and they're not even using their phone. It's just sitting on a little cup holder beside me. Yeah, right. And so that's the message I like to get out is mitigate your use of the technology and don't have it on if it doesn't need to be on. But then, when it is on, I think stuff like this, I mean, again, mine is a fully subjective experience. It's all anecdotal, I'll admit. But, I've been using your devices for what, a year or so? About a year, yeah. Yeah. And, I like them. I actually was really excited about having this conversation just because I get so many questions about the placebo thing and the study thing and how does it work if it's not reducing the field strength, you know, all these things that have come up. But this has been really helpful for me, honestly, to learn a little bit more.

Yeah. And I would say, like, you know, Dr. Dogras, the work— I'm excited because, uh, you know, I'm hoping to engage him, his teams, and the stuff, the work that they're doing to do really, like, where can we apply it? Because he gets to see— he's exposed to so many things. The work that his company does, I get more and more excited about as I learn learn more about what they're doing with EMF and EEG. And like he mentioned, the ability to the cranial stimulation, all the things that they're doing, I'm very fascinated by that, right? And the fact that the body is electric, what is that? The average person doesn't even think about that. And so when we think about it interacting with these other electrical circuits, what—

They don't think about it until they get AFib and they're like, "I can't feel my legs." 100%, right?

And turning this into something really medical before somebody does something.

Yeah, before it opens their eyes up to it. But one of your questions we had talked about before, before we started recording, was like, how did I get into it? And I read The Body's Electric. Yeah, Robert Becker. From when I was like really young.

That's right up there with Jerry Tennant's book, Healing is Voltage. Two great books to wrap your head around.

Yeah, but I was a kid when I read that, and I don't remember, it was just, it was something that I didn't understand just from the title, and so I'm like, I'm curious about this, And so, it's always stuck with me and I've continued to be interested in anything related to the idea that the body is electric. And so, that was my first thing. And then, my wife who is always the smart one in the relationship was always trying to reduce our exposure to EMF. And no matter what, the internet is where I've made my living. And so, for me, I'm like, "Internet was everything." So, there's always a little bit of the friction in the house of Wi-Fi and I want the latest and is the greatest, and so she was always really good about that. So I was like, okay, I'll support as much as I possibly can. And so then when Aries came up on my radar, it was Drew Green, who's the CEO of Indochino, the menswear company. He's the chairman of the board of Aries, and he contacted me about another role of one of his investment companies, and it just wasn't interesting. It was a CPG company with a celebrity. I just wasn't interested. I had been doing a lot of work already with other uninteresting things, and then he called me back, he's like, "Hey, I don't know if you know anything about EMF, but take a look at this company, let me know what you think." So I looked at it, and I spent a long time with my average human brain to try to understand all the science, and I contacted as many people as I possibly could to help me understand it, and it got to that point where I was like, I just wanna understand the math. That's where I go back to, for me, math is kind of a safe place for me, 'cause I understand it, I'm comfortable with it, and I recognize the reason why I was always I was good at math as I understood that was black and white. I could prove my own answers. When I'm taking my SATs, whatever, I could check my work. It was really easy. So I really got to the point where I was like, I just wanna check the math. Help me understand the math. So I sought out people that would help me understand the math. And that was a long process. And then I got really comfortable with it. And the more that I've been around it, the more work we've done, the more fascinated I am. But I think the biggest thing that jumps out to me is young people. I think young people, We talk a lot about the emotional and psychological effects of the phone and social media and things like that, but we don't spend any time talking about this EMF. I'd love to hear what Douglass has to say about that and maybe what you have to say about that, but the idea of this developing organism that isn't fully developed, that is not defending itself— Rapidly dividing cells. Rapidly dividing cells. They're extremely vulnerable. I don't think we do enough as parents. We do the best we can. We know how hard it is right now to be parents. Parents. But that is one area that's like we should be better at because there are so many environmental stressors that we've introduced into our world, and the cell phone being one that's— starting with the present.

Yeah, just to tag into that is, you know, the body has an inherent wisdom to it. It is the best doctor in the room. And if you do things to get in the way of that, you're going to prevent yourself from being healthy in a way that you should be and can be. And so, you know, When you have something like this to help mitigate some of these hostile forces around you, allow the body to do what it can do, and then I think you're in the best shape possible.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, well, guys, this has been an incredible conversation. I've actually learned a ton. I got to ask all my stupid questions. Anything else you want to share?

Just, uh, well, you know, I guess that I would, I would say the only thing I would just say is like, look, we're always willing to have discussions with people. We try to keep it as productive as possible. I do recommend people check out the website on the— from the study standpoint. I have been a huge proponent, and he's seen me do this now a bunch, where I'm like, with all the AI tools we have, you can take all of our studies, dump them into OpenAI to ChatGPT, ask it to summarize it, pressure test it, and ChatGPT will tell you that the science is sound. It'll tell you that the science works. It's not gonna say that EMFs are harmful, but it will tell you, like, yes, superposition, interference, the silicon resonator does, it will tell you it. You can take all 40-plus, 48 studies that are on the website right now, and we have a lot more that we'll translate and put them on there, but a lot more on there. You can dump it all in there, have it aggregate it all for you and spit out a summary., and there's no other company in this space that can say that. You can't take, because everyone else is black box. We are 100% open. Yeah, I didn't know that. Yeah, so you can take our patent that tells you how it's made, our design patents, you can take these EEG studies, the EKGs, you can take all of that and dump it in there. You can take our method and dump it all in there, and it'll spit out a result that says it's coherence. It's superposition, it's, it's destructive or constructive interference. I'll tell you all of it, tell you how it all works.

Yeah, and so you've got prompting skills. Yeah, yeah, so that's, that's the best, best skill nowadays with AI is sure if you don't want to be replaceable, learn how to prompt. Um, show notes, and I will link for those of you listening into all of these studies, I'll link to the Aerostek website and the products and your guys's channels if people want to learn more about you, Nick, or you, Josh, or check out some of the— what's it called— Neuro Field products because I think those look pretty sexy too. BenGreenfieldLife.com/EMFpod. BenGreenfieldLife.com/EMFpod, like podcast. Questions, comments, feedback. I know that many of you listening in, you have additional questions, maybe something I forgot to ask, your own thing to pipe in on, skepticism. I hear that sometimes. But honestly, this is an open discussion. So, go to BenGreenfieldLife.com/EMFpod. Try one of these devices out for yourself. I think you guys have some kind of a guarantee or something along those lines if people get it.

Yeah. And, I'm sure in the shownotes, we'll put some sort of promotion or discount in there for them too.

Yeah. I've always got something like that floating around that just try Ben 10, that usually works. So, go to BenGreenfieldLife.com/EMFpod. Check it out. AEROS 10. Josh, Nick, thank you guys so much. Thank you. Thank you. It's been incredible. Do you want free access to comprehensive shownotes, my weekly roundup newsletter, cutting-edge research and articles, top recommendations from me for everything that you need to hack your life, and a whole lot more? Check out BenGreenfieldLife.com. It's all there. BenGreenfieldLife.com. See you over there. Most of you who listen don't subscribe, like, or rate this show. If you're one of those people who do, then huge thank you. But here's why it's important to subscribe, like, and/or rate this show. If you do that, that means we get more eyeballs, we get higher rankings, and the bigger the Ben Greenfield Life show gets, the bigger and better the guests get and the better the content I'm able to deliver to you. So, hit subscribe. Leave a ranking, leave a review if you got a little extra time. It means way more than you might think. Thank you so much. In compliance with the FTC guidelines, please assume the following about links and posts on this site. Most of the links going to products are often affiliate links, of which I receive a small commission from sales of certain items, but the price is the same for you, and sometimes I even get to share a unique and somewhat significant discount with you. In some cases, I might also be an investor in a company I mention. I'm the founder, for example, of Kion LLC, the makers of Kion-branded supplements and products, which I talk about quite a bit. Regardless of the relationship, if I post or talk about an affiliate link to a product, it is indeed something I personally use, support, and with full I, in good conscience, recommend. I personally vet each and every product that I talk about. My first priority is providing valuable information and resources to you that help you positively optimize your mind, body, and spirit, and I'll only ever link to products or resources, affiliate or otherwise, that fit within this purpose. So, there's your fancy legal disclaimer.