14 Aug 2022 · 20 min
Ben Greenfield reads about how adults carry childlike tendencies and why that matters. He argues we should see others as children to build empathy, warns that emotional immaturity without rites of passage can damage people, and says reclaiming ceremonies and wilderness initiations helps us grow up without losing childlike joy.
Questions this episode answers
August 14, 2022.
"More than twenty million children live in a home without the presence of a father."
Twin Eagles Wilderness School.
getindoor.com chapter seventeen (getindoor.com/chapter-17).
Chapters
Welcome to chapter seventeen of endure each week i'll release to you on this podcast feed a little snippet from my book a guide to spiritual stamina which you can find at getindoor dot com let's dive in chapter seventeen babies comedian podcaster and ufc commentator joe rogan has a fascinating thought about how parenting has changed the way that he interacts with people on multiple podcast interviews joe describes how having children of his own forced him to realize that we were all babies and children at one time and that many adults are just kids walking around in a grown human shell still thinking and acting with many of the same built in belief patterns habits tendencies temptations and struggles as they experienced in childhood often simply molded and shaped by a multitude of life experiences that have happened since the time they were a tiny crying newborn baby but not as far removed from who they were as a child as we might be led to believe your doctor was once just a nerdy kid who was fascinated by the human body the greatest violin virtuoso used to be forefron feet tall standing in their bedroom with a tiny bow trying to squeak out a teeth gritting version of twinkle twinkle little star for the first time your favorite fantasy fiction author used to be a freckle faced adolescent who would hunch over his or her keyboard sipping on a soda and scratching their head about how to describe a dragon the biggest hollywood actors and actresses used to be tiny humans nervously huddled backstage at the school play reciting their lines over and over again and hoping they didn't mess anything up prolific modern day inventors and business figures like elon musk richard branson and bill gates used to be teenagers tinkering in the garage with model airplanes computer hard drives and mail order robot kits your husband your wife your mother your father your brother and your sister at a time really not too long ago were pooping in their diapers learning to awkwardly take their first step throwing a tantrum snatching away some other kid's precious toy and checking under the bed and in the bedroom closet for scary monsters well joe rogan describes in many of his podcasts in which he discusses parenting how when someone says something to him that could potentially be upsetting controversial insulting or just plain silly now that he's a parent he really doesn't judge them quite as harshly nor allow his own feelings to get hurt because he's come to the realization that most people are just a grown up baby or child trapped inside an adult sized meat suit still picking one shallow fight after another with each other buying bigger and bigger toys eating drinking pooping laughing masturbating crying talking and seeking entertainment and self pleasure to deliver the surges of dopamine we're all hardwired to crave often abusing or misusing others to satisfy that craving well despite my belief that by the grace of god a man or woman can become more christlike each day and be renewed as a new creation in a second birth when they experience salvation i'll admit there's actually some shreds of truth to joe's thoughts after all just because you're in possession of a full grown body doesn't mean there's a responsible adult mind and soul inside or that you've set aside childlike tendencies like selfishness greed anger impatience or irresponsibility just because you're a parent doesn't mean you're not still stricken with imposter syndrome and simply trying to stay one step ahead of your own kids and learning what it really means to be a parent or even an adult for that matter just because you're supposed to get a real job to work to provide for and protect you and your family that doesn't mean you still don't enjoy and find purpose in the same kind of activities and hobbies you enjoyed doing when you were a little kid furthermore there can be a great deal of value in not completely forsaking childhood as childhood development physician gabor mate says trauma doesn't have to necessarily involve some kind of intense readily identifiable physical or spiritual event that noticeably scars you but rather as addiction stress and somewhat distressing life events occur can simply be a disconnection from the true self who we were quite intimately connected to as a child in addition as i told you in chapter nine you should always retain in your life the joyful elements that came so easy to you when you were a child like dancing singing and dreaming and that the fading away of our youthful happy and carefree dreaming singing and dancing can occur gradually over an extended period of time as we become more and more mindful of fulfilling the basic survival elements of maslow's hierarchy of needs find food make money start a family get a home etcetera and more and more obsessed with and satisfied with doing accomplishing and producing to the ultimate and sad sacrifice of being savoring and creating so what can we learn from this observation that we tend to act like grown human babies each carrying many of the same tendencies and habits both good and bad that we did as children well i think there's three valuable lessons here first empathizing with others in a different way second coming to the self awareness that certain elements from childhood that no longer serve us serve others or serve god should be left behind and finally we should always retain in our lives some semblance of the magic and joy of childhood see others as grown children in chapter fifteen i taught you a simple thought and visualization exercise that allows you to truly be able to implement more empathy and a greater practical practice of the golden rule into your life the basic idea was this if you didn't hear that chapter yet you can quite literally translocate yourself and as though you were playing a movie in your mind look at yourself through the actual eyes of anyone with whom you are interacting through the function of mirror neurons in your brain this can allow you to really truly feel what someone else is thinking experiencing and feeling as they interact with you and allow you to adjust your own interactions with them to better sympathize better empathize and better communicate very similarly you can based on this concept of everyone once being a child see each adult human you interact with as someone who was once a baby is your co worker throwing a tantrum consider smiling at them telling them everything is going to be okay and perhaps fetching them a soothing coffee and a snack just like that warm bottle of milk your mother may have delivered to you when you were a crying bab is your husband or wife feeling down and depressed well hold them hug them caress their hair snuggle them pray with them remember how good it felt when you were sad and your parents or another adult who cared simply gave you a hug are you frustrated with the actions of a politician or a leader or an employer write them a letter tell them how you're feeling vulnerably share your thoughts and emotions think back to when you were a kid and someone actually explained to you how they were feeling or why they were angry or impatient with you or why they made a certain decision don't assume these grown up kids in some omniscient way know how their actions are affecting you maybe they never learned that in the days weeks months and years since they were just getting a bath taking a nap and running around a playground somewhere so tell them this practice can drastically change the way you interact with view and judge people it can soften the way you treat them it can transform your interactions with others into something more like the gentle loving forgiving and patient interaction you'd have with a baby or with a child see we're all just humans and we're all just basically grown up baby humans so don't assume someone is grown up officially we were all children once imagine all those influencers all those gurus all those teachers all those employers all those employees all those lovers all those adult bullies all those in your life who you may be tempted to be fearful of to disagree with to argue against or to harshly judge as children see them in your mind's eye as an awkward young boy or a cute little girl who might just be a tad bit older now imagine them as a child or even as a baby put yourself in their shoes understanding and practicing this concept will give you more patience more empathy and more sympathy try it leave childish things behind next now that you can hopefully see what it's like when many of those people around you act as though they haven't grown up as much as you'd expect use that as inspiration to do a bit more growing up yourself so that you're not personally acting as a giant grown up human baby in an adult shell as paul says in first corinthians thirteen eleven when i was a child i talked like a child i thought like a child i reasoned like a child when i became a man i put the ways of childhood behind me and later in ephesians four fourteen we should no longer be children tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine by the trickery of men in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting if you get angry or stressed over small and pointless meaningless or trite things you know your spouse drinks all the morning coffee your kids barge in on an important phone call or someone is using your machine at the gym tend to assume everything revolves around you you narcissistically hog the bathroom you're always first in line to get food at a party as i discuss in chapter twenty two you're unwilling to sacrifice your precious yoga class or lunch hour to go help someone in need and you get upset when things don't go your way you know waiting in line stresses you out you get angry when you can't get a restaurant reservation or you throw a tantrum when the uber takes twenty minutes to arrive and you generally treat others as though their sole purpose is to serve you then you might indeed be living in an emotionally stunted childlike state often described in modern psychology as little princess or peter pan syndro one perfect example of the detrimental societal effects of this hanging on to irresponsible childish tendencies and living as a grown child in a sort of lifelong peter pan syndrome is the alarming and increased prevalence of fatherlessness which has become what i consider to be an epidemic especially in america but also beyond if it were classified as a disease fatherlessness would be an epidemic worthy of attention as a national emergency more than twenty million children live in a home without the presence of a father millions more children have fathers who are physically present yet emotionally absent you can check out the resources webpage for this chapter at getindoor dot com chapter seventeen that's chapter one seven to read plenty more statistics on the sad extent of fatherlessness a major contributor to this epidemic is the fact that many modern men are wandering through life as grown humans on the outside but as mentally emotionally and spiritually immature boys on the inside these men never experienced a formal recognition or ceremonial transition into adulthood and consequently are often left scratching their head and trying to figure out when they became a man or if they're even a man yet and worse yet these grown male adults subconsciously or consciously consider themselves to be and even pride themselves on being a happy go lucky boy on the inside free to drive fast cars listen to loud music hit the clubs until two am and knock up as many women as their heart desires with complete self permission to walk away from any responsibility because well that's what little boys do male rites of passage which i explore in detail on a podcast interview with a guy named tim corcoran that podcast is available at bengreenfieldfitness dot com and these same male rites of passage which are also explained quite excellently in the book leaving boyhood behind begin with a separation from the tribe followed by a transitional process of facing one's fears and dissolving one's ego through some kind of hardship or crucible and finally finish with a reincorporation back into society accompanied by a ceremonial recognition that the new young man is now a responsible contributory member of society these types of rights have been woven into the fabric of culture and considered to be an integral part of a boy's transition into manhood for thousands of years but are now noticeably absent in our modern westernized cultured tribes mark my words this absence of a male rite of passage is a time honored tradition that we must reclaim masculine initiation in particular is a constant thread in ancient and classical literature and the upbringing of many well recognized figures of history achilles for example was handed over by his father to chiron a centaur to be initiated into manhood jack and the beanstalk is the story of a boy being separated from his mother experiencing a battle with a giant and finally liberating his father so he could become a man like him and reclaim his inheritance whether it's telemachus and the odyssey or daniel and the karate kid or jesus christ wandering in the wilderness for forty days mature capable and enduring masculinity is forged by these types of harrowing but necessary experiences fortunately many organizations often in the realm of wilderness survival and nature immersion still exist to systematize the process of a rite of passage for a young man for example you can find such locations by googling a term like wilderness rite of passage name of your city for boys my own sons have experienced multiple solo ego dissolving days and nights in the wilderness between the ages of seven and thirteen with the most recent accompanied by a ceremonial coming of age and recognition of their passage into adolescence all fostered by trained rite of passage guides at a place called twin eagles wilderness school as a matter of fact now that they're thirteen and have completed their rite of passage we don't even refer to them as boys anymore but as sons young men fellows or simply by their first name they're equipped not just physically but also mentally emotionally and spiritually to now become kings leaders fathers and husbands for life the rite of passage for your own boys doesn't need to be the same as mine but hopefully the examples i just gave you give you some idea of where to start and yeah there's no reason that a full grown adult male cannot also complete these same rites of passage as the old chinese proverb goes the best time to plant a tree is twenty years ago or today while women naturally go through rites of passage to womanhood that are deeply rooted in their physical and psychological makeup such as the onset of menstruation or giving birth to a first child the same process for men is notoriously absent for women the problem is that even these experiences are often not recognized honored or celebrated but instead hidden pronounced shameful or given a casual head nod rather than a formal acknowledgment of their extreme importance and significance in signaling that a girl is prepared to become a woman a caretaker a minister to her family and eventually a great and noble matriarch ultimately we must as parents as families and as a society that desires responsible adults who have left childish things behind reclaim these rites of passage and weave into our education and child raising practices a ceremonial recognition of the passage of a man or woman into adulthood so yeah we all used to be babies but that doesn't mean we need to be that way anymore retain the magic and wonder of childhood while it's a good idea to focus upon empathetically putting yourself in others shoes by seeing them as grown adults still struggling with many of the same temptations and tendencies from childhood and simultaneously to dedicate yourself to committing to set aside selfish and immature childish tendencies that don't serve you you shouldn't necessarily completely forsake the magic of childhood as a matter of fact when my twin sons recently set upon their own wilderness rite of passage i slipped them a letter full of observations memories and advice from me one anecdote from that letter to one of my sons in particular went like this you've always loved good music and always had a good voice too from singing muppet songs when you were a toddler to belting out praise and worship songs at church to playing all your epic music during school time or workouts or tennis i see how much you are connected to music and song i was the same way growing up never ever lose that love for music and rhythm and dancing and singing for some parts of my life i lost my connection to the joys of singing and music but have since rediscovered it and the immense joy that instruments singing music songs bands and even sound healing can bring to one's life so keep on singing keep on playing your favorite music as loudly as you'd like keep on learning and playing instruments both your mom and i come from families that love music and it's woven into our dna i have a strong hunch it's woven into yours too oh also don't ever give up on the other loves you've had since you were a baby or think that they're so childish you need to leave them behind even as a man they'll bring joy to your heart so don't give up on your love for music or your love for dogs or your love for comics or your love for amazing works of fiction or your love for throwing snowballs or your love for playing tricks or your love for chasing puppies with laser pointers or your love for jumping on trampolines never stop dancing singing and dreaming so yeah do avoid full blown little princess or peter pan syndrome but do also keep a little bit of little princess or peter pan inside you don't get so stuck in your mature responsible adult hypnotic rhythms that you stop dancing go to the arcade laugh more sing in the shower learn good jokes and be the person that tells those jokes at dinner parties and social events go on bike rides through the neighborhood at night to go get ice cream play silly card games at dinner build sandcastles at the beach have dance parties sing more lay in your backyard staring at the sky hands clasped behind your head and dream after all even in the bible your transformation into a state of eternal happiness and salvation is described as a transformation dependent upon being like a little child matthew eighteen three says truly i tell you unless you change and become like little children you will never enter the kingdom of heaven and mark ten five likewise says assuredly i say to you whoever does not receive the kingdom of god as a little child will by no means enter it first peter two two describes our love for the word of god like this as newborn babies desire the pure milk of the word that you may grow thereby and when it comes to retaining the love of our childhood psalm seventy one five says for you o lord are my hopes my trust oh lord from my youth when i interviewed anti aging and longevity expert marissa peer on my podcast she described how surrounding ourselves with photos memories and activities from our younger years can inject youthfulness and vitality into our older years describing studies in which older people were placed in a closed environment that resembled life thirty years prior and the astounding results in their attitude health and longevity that resulted from that so yeah be responsible and mature and a contributory member of society who produces impactful work that loves god and loves others but do so with a goofy smile on your face a prank in your pocket a voracious curiosity for god's creation perhaps the same kind of silly t shirt with a witty slogan that you may have worn when you were ten the world needs just a bit more responsible light heartedness summary as you've heard in this chapter i believe that it's critically important to our societal stability that like our ancestors we learn how to weave into our culture a ceremonial recognition of passage into adulthood and that we learn how to set aside the weaknesses of childhood that no longer serve us serve god or serve others sadly many people simply can't say when they became a responsible adult and when they set aside the silly petty irresponsible or dependent elements of childhood if you fall into that category i challenge you to set out upon your own rite of passage whether that be a wilderness excursion a meditation retreat a hunting trip a sabbatical or any other immersive preferably solo experience in which you face your own fears dissolve your own ego inspect any elements of your own inner child that still remain with you and give yourself the time and focus to dwell upon how you're going to serve the world as a responsible contributory adult member of society yet it's also important that you maintain a sense of childlike wonder and joy as you savor each and every element of god's creation in the same way that as in chapter seven i told you that i consider myself to be a temperate christian hedonist i also consider myself to be a grown responsible adult still infused with childlike wonder still able to dance sing and dream still plugged into enjoying deriving satisfaction from and even weaving into my own career in an act of self actualization those same productive and creative activities that i enjoyed and was good at as a child yet also able to set aside the trite silly selfish habits and tendencies of that same child allow me to finish with a thought provoking poem by aa milne who you may recognize as the author of winnie the pooh but who also penned the following poem entitled now we are six when i was one i had just begun when i was two i was nearly new when i was three i was hardly merely when i was four i was not much more when i was five i was just alive but now i'm six i'm as clever as clever so i think i'll be six now forever and ever how about you when did you become an adult are you an adult yet or are you still a child in an adult's body are you able to look at others who may be upsetting you with their selfishness silliness or other childlike tendencies and remind yourself to be patient to have mercy and to treat them kindly because they were once a baby they were once a child and they're still learning how to or perhaps don't know how to forsake those rash reckless foolhardy or irresponsible elements of childhood that they carried into adulthood are you able to accept the fact that all the wisdom and insight and experience and depth of knowledge that you think you have now may be something you look back at two decades from now and laugh at and can you therefore apply that same thought pattern towards your interactions with those who may be years or even decades younger than you can you put yourself in their shoes when you were their age well if you want to respond to those questions dwell upon them jot your notes down or just interact with this chapter a little more deeply you can get the physical or digital version of this book at getindoor dot com and for resources references links and additional reading and listening material for this chapter you can go to getindoor dot com chapter seventeen that's getindoor dot com chapter seventeen.
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