How To Biohack With The Elements of Air, Fire, Water & Earth: VSELs, Dosing Methylene Blue, Melatonin For Inflammation & Much More

My name is Ben Greenfield, and on this episode of the Ben Greenfield Life.

Podcast, that was the first thing that woke me up as a dentist. That I just realized that it's incentivized disease care. It's not health care. Let's stop calling it healthcare. It's disease care. So to get the conditions right in the body, it really boils down to the gut. And the gut, the gap junctions.

Okay.

And the leaky mouth, leaky brain, leaky gut, leaky sinuses, leaky tonsils, leaky teeth. Okay, so it's leaky everything.

Faith, family, fitness, health, performance, nutrition, longevity, ancestral living, biohacking, and a whole lot more. Welcome to the show.

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The but maybe you don't know what.

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Ben.

Well, folks, I am backstage right now with my friend, Dr. John Laurence after having just recorded a big Q and A panel at the end of a fantastic day, the Elements event. But we have John, Air, light, fire, water, earth, fire, all the elements. We were doing PMF and ozone and grounding and earthing and sound therapy and IVs and methylene blue and you name it. But at the end of the day, we did a really fantastic Q and A in which we got into all the fringe corners of biological dentistry. Methylene blue protocols, melatonin protocols, circadian rhythm, and lighting. It was pretty good.

Yeah, we had a biological dentist, one of the originals, that's been practicing for like, 30 years.

That cat was amazing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So anyways, the reason I'm telling you all this is that is what you are about to hear. Now I'm going to create show notes for you guys, which you can find@BenGreenfieldLife.com ElementsPanel that's BenGreenfieldLife.com what? John?

Panel.

Elements. Panel, baby. BenGreenfieldLife.com ElementsPanel it's okay. We've had a long day, folks. So anyways, go there. You'll be able to access the show notes. You can leave your questions, your comments, your feedback, and access any and all of the resources that John and I talk about. I usually don't really record an intro with my guest, but, John, you walked in at the right time.

So here we are.

We did it.

We did it.

So, Ben, did you sing for us again? I did.

I sing at the end of our other podcast.

Oh, well, you name name it. Give me a grace.

Didn't I sing that last time?

All right.

Amazing grace. How sweet the sound. That started to go downhill fast. Well, folks, that's John Lawrence, me. And we will not start a band, but we are putting out a good podcast for you, so I hope you enjoy this one.

Here we go.

So I'm going to point the first question at Dr. John, and the question is this. How are V cells administered for the hearing loss treatment? And then it says direct injection question or IV infusion question.

Yeah, so VSEL stands for very small embryonic, like stem cell. And it's something that I think is probably one of the best forms of stem cell therapy. They discovered that you have all of these tiny stem cells that are pluripotent, meaning that they can turn into virtually any type of cell. And they're small enough where they can go everywhere, so they can go through the blood brain barrier and they can literally go wherever you want them to go. They're trapped in your blood. Really interesting.

Point that I bring out in the recent book that I released. It's all in your head. It's mostly on endonasal, but I get into some concepts of meditation because Joe Dispenza is doing some research on why these meditators are having these spontaneous healings. They there seems to be this activation in some sort of life force where people have a short term healing and then more long term, so people, their tumors will melt away. Or you have people in wheelchairs with strokes that get up and start and walk. So they've looked at the blood and they found that there's just tons of these tiny little particles. And so their initial ideas with that is that they're exosomes. And so the way stem cells work is that when a stem cell is homed into an area, so when we have an injury, it attracts, it sends out a beacon for the stem cell to migrate to the area. Then once it gets there, it has a stickiness and it attaches there. And then it starts to shower these exosomes, which then shower the existing cells and tissues, which then go into a youthful repair phase. And that's really how it works. It's not as much as what we thought where the stem cell then starts to turn into different cell lineages that does happen, but it's more through the exosomes. So they're kind of thinking more that it's this exosome effect. And once I started to, I met Todd Okobites out in Carlsbad, who's really pioneered the use with this laser that's like. It's like a zero point laser, they call it scalar, but it's very unique in the way that it works. And so the laser, we pull the patient's blood, we spin it down in a certain way, and then we activate that blood, which liberates and grows all of these B cells. So it's from your body, it's completely safe. And we can run it as an iv and then we can take that same laser and use right angles to basically home them into specific areas of the body, the ear, different parts of the brain pituitary, the thyroid adrenals. We did a whole protocol on Ben. So this question's kind of asking, like, how do we use the V cell with the inner ear? And my answer would be both. I had to give you the background so you kind of understood exactly the context by it. But so we directly injected. It's called a trans tympanic injection, which is kind of a typical injection that an ENT would do for like a steroid for a kid. Very common. So it's an injection like that, and then we take the laser, activate it, and home it in after an iv.

Yeah, thank you for that. And do any of the other panelists have anything you want to add on to that?

I'll throw in a quick clarification. I actually had somebody super concerned reach out to me when we were doing the Instagram video yesterday about the V cells, that these were embryos that had somehow been killed, human embryos, but it's very small embryonic, like stem cells. So first of all, you're concerned about the ethical nature of these. They're not harvested from embryos. And second, John's actually lying about the exosomes. They're actually government nanobots.

I also wear a tinfoil hat.

Yeah. And we'll repeat questions that are asked in the audience because we are recording this. The question is, what is the source of the stem cells? It's human derived tissue. John, do you want to expound?

Well, the, the exosomes that are typically used in doctor's offices are. They take placenta and they, they stress them in a way that the stem cells in the placenta kind of bud off and shower the exosomes into like a sterile, like saline solution. And then they use those. The V cells, like I said, they're basically. It's a blood draw. So it's no different than if you got prp. So a lot of people by now are familiar with platelet rich plasma. It's a blood draw. It's spun down and then it's activated with this specific laser.

So if you were to do a B cell procedure, the first thing that's going to happen is you'll give a bunch of blood and then that blood is treated to activate the B cells and then they go wherever it is that you want them to go.

All right, so the next question we have here is, does eye protection need to be worn when using near infrared light? And I'm going to direct that down to Ben if I can, and then we can follow up.

I'm Certainly no expert on infrared light and the interaction with the eye, but I do know that about 600-800nm is actually something that can be good for myopia, can be good for retina. And I think that the fact that a lot of these manufacturers are covering their butts by sending out like the little tanning glasses with the red light devices has kind of like spread this rumor that you got to be careful with them. But it's a lot different than the concentrated lasers. Like the FDA. What are the Class 2 medical devices that John might use here in the clinic? Like the home light panels, infrared light panels, stuff like the juve things along those lines. You don't need to wear eye protection. I suppose I should probably have a. Have a little asterisk disclaimer reducing any type of litigious action. But yeah, I never use eye protection unless it's like an actual concentrated laser in a medical facility.

Yeah.

You know, when we do the vee cell and we, we, we do our protocol, especially if we're doing like brain, we go right into the eye. You remember when we did yours?

Yeah.

You stare right at the laser that goes in the eye. And it's really amazing the response that we've had with patients with vision.

Yeah, you feel your brain just turn on. Who used the B light today, the infrared light for the head. And then it also has a nasal probe and that thing you. Very, very similar. You can feel that photobiomodulation coming straight into the neural tissue through the nose and on top of the head. And that company, by the way, they have a newer device called a duo, where you put on, you put on the cap. But then they've got a second device that attaches to the back of the head to do the vagus nerve. And then a second probe goes in the other nostrils. You got, not. You got a probe in both nostrils, the light on the back of the head. And they also ship it out with a gut device. So you can literally do like a full body treatment at home now, which is pretty cool. Slash, according to my, my wife and children. Makes me very hard to snuggle with mornings.

Any other comments?

I would just add that in general, the LEDs seem to be very safe for eye consumption. I would also say that there's one of the major laser manufacturers, they're working on treatment for glaucoma right now using laser, actual laser directly into eyes. So I think the jury is still out right now. But like he said, you know, Ben, cover your sort of COVID Your butt in the clinic is probably worthwhile, but I think we'll see in the next couple years that stance changes and we're using it more and more that way.

All right, the next question is methylene blue. How much daily cycle, on and off, question mark. In what form? Capsule, question mark. I'm going to ask John to start with this one, but maybe we can go down the line.

Methylene blue, the dosage is a half a milligram, up to 4 milligrams per kilogram of body weight. So, you know, 80 milligrams is a pretty roundabout number for most people. You know, 40 to 80. We, we have the lumital blue, which is a square, and it's half of that is about 80 milligrams. That's pretty often what I, I recommend to a lot of my patients and that seems to, to be really helpful. You do want to take a break every so often. Typically I'll, I'll Recommend People do 10 days on and 3 days off. There's some variations that you can have within that. I mean, it's not like a set in stone thing, but what happens is the methylene blue has an affinity to the mitochondria. And that's why they use methylene blue for staining like brain tissue, because the nerves become super blue so you can see them in contrast to other tissues. It rushes in that mitochondria. And so if you're taking it every day, there's a buildup that can occur in the mitochondria. And I've hit that threshold myself, and it's kind of like you get a little fatigued, right? And then you take a couple days off, then you take the methylene blue and it's like, boom, everything's working again. So it's not like you get into a danger situation like life or death, but it'll begin to start to have an opposite effect.

What might be useful too is just to ask, give an example of maybe how you've benefited from it.

Yeah, well, it has been profoundly helpful for me personally and I like to do things myself before I start recommending it to my patients. So, like, all the stuff that you guys have experienced, I've like, you know, delved deeply into and find it to be beneficial personally. But with methylene blue, I just feel like I have a lot more focus and attention and it's from a place of just being happy and, and optimistic. So it works kind of like an SSRI in that sense. And the reason that it helps mood is that it Kind of mops up nitric oxide. And they've done studies where they found that people that have depression, if they raise their nitric oxide, the depression and the mood gets worse. Right. If they lower the nitric oxide, it's like completely related. Right. So nitric oxide. And like, for a lot of people working out, I'm not opposed to it. I think it can be beneficial to cycle it. But I don't think that it's something that you should take every day, all day, you know, because it has a lot of negative consequences to it.

Yeah. Excess nitric oxide could certainly cause a little bit of, like, an excess free radical response. Couple of thoughts about methylene blue. And John, don't kill me for saying this, but it is, you know, it's like a fish tank cleaner, right. It's kind of like ozone. Right. These are cleaning agents to a certain extent. And so I think that overuse, you know, people who are doing, you know, frequent, let's say, like, rectal insufflation of ozone, which I know everybody in here does every day, or. Or regular oral use of methylene blue or rectal use of methylene blue. I think you could reach a point where you can actually kind of like, clean out the biome too much. Right. Almost essentially create a situation which you might not have enough good bacteria. That's theoretical. But because of that, I'm a little bit careful with excessive use of ozone, excessive use of methylene blue. Kind of like this whole healthy hygiene hypothesis, the idea that exposing a child to wide variety of fermented foods and farm animals and things like that help to build up dirt and bacteria and gunk in the body that renders the immune system stronger. I think you. You should be a little bit careful with excess cleaning edges to the body. But like John mentioned, it is fantastic, especially when compared to combined with photobiomodulation as kind of like the ultimate smart drug combo. The other thing you should be aware of is that when we're talking about things that interact with light in a favorable manner. I don't recall the book on melanin, but there are certain melanin precursors that also work really, really well when combined with infrared light or sunlight. That could also be combined with methylene blue, namely shilajit and chlorella, like the dark greens, the dark blue blacks of the plant kingdom, along with the dark blues, seem to interact really, really well with red light. And I think that we'll probably see over the next decade a lot more research done on this concept of photobiomodulation what to stat with it. And then the very last thing is, John did mention that the methylene blue can act a little bit like an ssri. So if you're using other SSR like compounds, you could risk excess flooding of the cell receptor with, with serotonin in the cleft. So you would want to be careful with what you combine it with, especially if you're on some type of SSRI based medication. Just make sure that you, you don't take the methylene glue simultaneous to that.

All right.

Any, anything else, I would just say.

I use methylene blue more as needed.

So if I have a lot of.

Writing to do, if I have a lot of studying to do, I love it as a, you know, sort of a focus and concentration piece like that. So I don't tend, you know, I might take it for five days or 10 days sequentially and then I might not take it for two weeks or three weeks. That's just my own personal use. I definitely cycled it more like what John saying with certain patients, especially, you know, mitochondrial dysfunction. And we're, we're trying to run the machinery of the mitochondria in various ways. So we might do some methylene blue red light cycles, and we might do some hyperbaric oxygen and hydrogen cycles. So you know, we're running different systems in that mitochondria purposefully and we take breaks between different pieces of that so that we're not running any one of them sort of into the ground too much. And then I think over time to some extent, like let's say high dose blue too much, you don't want to clear that out periodically. But also there's pieces of this, like with oxidation factors, the body gets more resilient.

Right.

The whole hormetic effect. So there's a balance between pushing the envelope too far, where you're starting to clean things out too too much and starting to over oxidize and break things down. But if you reel that back a little bit and you just get enough of that stimulation, where at the end of the day now the body starts up regulating superoxide dismutase, the body starts up regulating glutathione and catalase, all those natural antioxidants, it makes us more resilient to all the other stuff in the world that we have less control over. So I think it's like anything else, it's just a delicate balance. Everybody's going to be a little bit different that way. And it's important to spend the time to figure that out with each person.

The question is, what sort of cycle length are we talking about when we're talking about a course of methylene blue?

Well, if you get sick, you feel like you're coming down with something, that could be a good time to even possibly take significantly more than what we mentioned. You know, as I mentioned, you know, you can even go higher than 4 milligrams per kilogram. But if you had cyanide poison poisoning, you went to the hospital, they would run an IV with exactly that dosage. We, we've done IVs with even higher amounts of that. So the safety is actually higher than that. There, there are certain procedures, such as a thymectomy, and they give intravenous methylene blue at, you know, thousand plus milligrams. And this is where the whole controversy with SSRIs came about about, because there was five cases that had these massive doses of methylene blue and they, they died from serotonin storm. So although I appreciate Ben's comment because it's probably a safe comment to make, but there's a little controversy with it. The Mayo actually came out and retracted that, that concern about SSRIs with methylene blue, except for just with this surgery. And the whole, the whole country of Canada does. Did as well. So it may not be as much of an issue as was thought.

The question is, what is the dosage being used in the IV versus the rectal form? I realize you can hear them, but for recording.

Thank you, Ben. Well, so we go up to as high as 500 milligrams. Between 3 and 500 milligrams with some of our IVs. We do a slow IV. We like to prime that with silver. Both silver and gold have been shown in the research to greatly enhance the photo dynamic aspect of methylene blue and silver. Just by itself anti inflammatory, it's very antimicrobial. A lot of the patients that we see are sick. I mean, I can't tell you how many people I've seen that have been really, really ill with the current virus. And just while the IV's running, you know, they're like, what the heck's in this stuff? You know, so it can be quite dramatic. And it's, you know, it's sad to me because this stuff should be at the hospitals, like what we do here, IV ozone. I mean, these things have been around for so long, there's so much research backing them up and it's just, it's just bizarre to me.

Pros and cons of a trochee vs a capsule vs other delivery methods of methylene blue. What do you think, John?

Well, you know, the IV obviously, is definitely getting in there. The suppository is nice because it's a slow release, so there's some benefits of that. The oral delivery really works great. In fact, when it's mixed with stomach acid, it enhances absorption. So if you don't want your mouth to get blue, you know, you want to take something that can get into your throat and down your mouth. The sublingual, those don't seem to have the absorption. This is according to some of the experts. You know, when they're asked, all the delivery forms seems to be orals. The recommended.

How many days on and off?

I would recommend 10 days on and three days off, as a rule of thumb.

All right, let me, let me go to the next question here. From a physical medicine and rehab perspective, what are the top three devices for acute. Acute care, pain relief and subsequent healing? And I think I'd like to go to Alan first, since we've underutilized you here, my friend.

You know, I think I'm. I'm going to defer that question to somebody else.

So the top three modalities for pain relief and healing. Okay. Should we just rapid fire each of our. Each of our top three, yeah. All right. I'll go with things that, that I personally would use at home for injury, for inflammation, or for relatively rapid pain relief. Let's say things that wouldn't fall under the category of, like, supplements or medications, you know, because obviously there's everything from, you know, opioid mimics like Kratom to tumor saccharides, curcumin, all sorts of things you can take orally. But I would say as far as modalities to have around the house, I think that pulsed electromagnetic field therapy is fantastic, especially if it's at a high enough power. I realize it's expensive, but I own one of those pulse centers, PEMF tables, that has the ability to attach coils and pads into it.

And that's.

That thing is just like lifeblood for me when it comes to management of injuries and little aches and pain. So that's one that I used probably every day. The second would be cold therapy, cold soaks, cryotherapy, or anything involving cold. It just seems to do a really, really good job, not only with pain management, but also some of the nervous system resilience that allows you to kind of like, manage your pain a little bit better. And then one that kind of Flies under the radar. There's a light sound stimulation machine called the Braintap. And the BrainTap has like 800 different recipes and sessions on it. But there's one section, if you were to own it and scroll through the library within the app, called Pain Management, and it literally teaches you how to use your brain as its own painkilling pharmacy. I kind of scoffed at this the first time I heard it and then I went through the sessions and. And it teaches you some really cool breathing tactics and almost like a little bit of self hypnosis to manage pain. And that one, because it's such a versatile tool, I think it's a really good unit to own. Anyways. Has anybody ever used the Brain Tap before? And it combines well with a lot of the modalities here like hyperbaric and sound therapy and all sorts of things. So anyways, I would say pemf, ice and the Brain Tap.

So Alan, if I were to ask you if you sprained your knee and what would you do at home?

The top three things, the temperature cycling, I would probably start there. Like hot, cold. Makes sense. I really like the idea of that. The area needs to be agitated. So be helpful to introduce kind of vibrational patterns into the area, I think, and kind of application of energy. So I could imagine like photonic therapy being helpful there. Vibrational therapy, mechanical vibration, hot and cold, I think, and then kind of gently be stretching it and relaxing it.

Seriously.

I would say for pain, I would separate those categories. So I would say for pain I would look at pemf, cryo or cold of some kind of. And then mechanoreceptor stimulation, you know, block. Helping to block the actual pain messages for regeneration. I think I would say to me that's an energy production issue. Right. So the, the two things that. So salamanders. I love salamanders. Right, I'm sure you guys do. So. So salamanders have two things that they do better than we do. The first is they mobilize stem cells way better than we can.

Actually there's three things.

They lower inflammation better than we can and they upregulate their oxygen better than we can. They actually have algae that grow on them. And algae are photosynthetic, so they create oxygen. So algae migrates to the area of injury and produces oxygen in the area while they're up regulating stem cells and reducing inflammation. So I would look at that and say clearly that's a regenerative model. We should try to mimic so oxygen. So for me that would be Hyperbaric. Obviously I might be partial to that.

Red light therapy from a, you know, mitochondrial cytochrome C. All the good things that that would do for us. And then I would just look for other mitochondria, either methylene blue or hydrogen. Things that help generate the energy concentration required for massive ATP production. Energy production.

Seems like there's two ways to answer this for me. There's one, like, what would I do in the clinic that might be difficult for people to do at home because I've got access to really expensive equipment and then something I could do at home.

So I would just go to John's office.

I'm here.

If I was at home, I would say cold would be number one. And I have a, a cold plunge. So if you don't have a cold plunge, you get one. Even if you get like a freezer and turn it on the side. It's something I use every day and I absolutely love it. So if I have pain and I want to get rid of pain. Cold therapy 20 minutes on, 20 minutes off. If you alternate that with heat, it can really help flush the area. And then like one of these photons would probably be my top choice as far as like a light. But it's very healing. You could do ice and then apply the photon to it. I think that would be a really good system. And then melatonin because that's when your body's going to really repair itself. That'll address the mitochondrial issue. We prefer that as a suppository. That's the best delivery. It delivers slowly throughout the night. Sandman and if I were to come to the clinic, I would probably say laser, like a Class 4 laser treatment. And then the sound wave device that we talked about, the softwave device. Then I would probably say some, probably chiropractic adjustment or some sort of manipulation to the area if that was indicated.

I have a few more thoughts real quick. I recently had like a toe inflammation. And to manage pain at night, I literally just used those lidocaine patches. So that's another one that flies under the radar, is literally just, just like a lidocaine pass. You can, you can slap on a painful area if you need to sleep without having to take a pharmaceutical. And then this is an old school tactic I learned from a doctor used to work a bunch of Tour de France cyclists. I Learned it like 10 years ago. I kind of forgot to mention it in my earlier response, but I used to use it all the time when I was racing Ironman and I still use it if I get some kind of like chronic repetitive motion injury and something I talk about in my book, it's like three steps. A you apply a transdermal anti inflammatory topical like I like magnesium lotion. CBD lotion would be another example. Or a traumial would be another example. Then you slap electrodes on top of that. I think one of the better devices out there is called the Mark Pro. It's like a home device that'll do transcutaneous nerve stimulation but then also electrical muscle stimulation. And then you wrap that with ice. So it's basically transdermal plus the electrodes plus the ice. And the way that works is the electrodes helps drive the the transdermal deeper into the tissue and then the ice allows you to jack up the intensity of the electrical stimulation a little bit higher. And that that done a few times a day like for me when I get an injury seems to work really, really well. And the only thing I'd throw in there is if you do have access to like injectable BPC157TB500 as peptides, you can do that beforehand as well. And I realize it's a lot of stuff, but as anybody in here who's active knows, like if you're laid up, you have pain, you want to get back in the game fast. Sometimes it's a matter of stacking some of these things and you can just do that while you're eating a salad for lunch or whatever.

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That kind of brings me to some thoughts, too, of CBG can be really good for pain. Cbd, But I think CBG is better in a full spectrum cbg. So it's kind of. They call it the mother of all cannabinoids, and so some of it turns into cbd, but it's activating more of the cannabinoid receptors than really any other substance. The other thing, there's a substance, it's a Chinese herb, primarily for pain. It's called Choridalis. Johan. Sui, I think. I don't. I don't think we. We sell it like on the site. On the Mitozen site, but we do give it to our patients. I have never seen anything work this well for pain. It just. And even, I mean, severe pain, throbbing pain.

Could you repeat that one more time?

John Corydalis, you and Sui.

Corey Dallas, you and Sui. Yeah, I might be getting my dupe with this panel discussion on a podcast. I'll hunt down the spelling and put it into the podcast. Yeah, show notes for people.

We have it in a suppository called Solace.

Right.

And if anybody wants, wants, we. They can just reach out to us.

Or email us and Solace. Solace. Yeah.

So when we do regenerative medicine, we give patients the suppository. They can either take it orally or rectally. And it's, you know, I mean, you could be just suffering in pain, and like 20 minutes later, you're like, you.

Know, where have that Chinese? And.

And there's no hangover. You take it. There's no. There's no constipation.

Wow.

It works. But honestly, like. Like Percocet, you know, and some of those pain medications, you don't really feel good on them, and. And they don't really get rid of your pain. They just kind of distract you from it. But the one caveat is that it will make you a little drowsy. So it's more ideal for nighttime. It's not something that you could take during the day.

Do you sell that on the Mitozen website? Solace?

No.

Someone need to call your clinic to be able to get.

Maybe we ought to get it up there.

Yeah, I mean, it sounds fascinating. Raise your hand if that's something you might keep in your Medicine cabinet. Yeah. This is the first time I've heard about it, so it's intriguing.

All right, so got another question here. And it asks how to activate pathways to balance circadian rhythm. So I, I think Alan.

Yeah.

Circadian rhythm is triggered primarily by the, you know, because we evolved here on the planet and we're kind of share a lot of DNA expression with other creatures that are. We, we've, we've evolved this system that orients us to this day. As a consequence of first light, there's a cycle that is developed. If you look at that cycle, that's a 12 hour period. This one, the full cycle is 24 hours. There's a whole cascade of hormones that happen with the production of cortisol in the body. Everything right down to estrogen and testosterone for males.

And it's exactly, this cycle is exactly the same cycle that is in a fruit tree for photosynthesis. And so that's also an orienting response for the tree in terms of how it produces food and everything. And anyway, these kinds of mimics are very broad as a consequence of all of us living things having evolved here on this planet. So the question was really about the sensory input. It was a question about how to drive that circadian rhythm.

Primarily with sunlight.

However you can.

It's what you call an experience that is emphasized like any rhythmic function in the body. If you time additional stimulus to occur at the time of specific points in the cycle, you can emphasize and lock it down. So there was the subject of Agnihotra came up today. And so this is an Ayurvedic ritual. It's very ancient. It involves the burning of cow dung, the ghee on the top of it. You do exactly at sunrise and exactly at sunset. And this is a circadian rhythm synchronizer is what this is. It's a very visceral experience. It's multimodal. You have the heat of the fire, you have the flickering of the fire, you have have chanting. You. It's about 12 minutes in total. And it's very precise. You do it very precisely at these.

Times of the day.

And there's, you know, anyway, it's under study right now, UCSB and the psychophysiology department, this particular modality. And there are other traditions too, like yogic traditions, like, like sun salutation might be a good example. Another one of like a multimodal I kind of process or methodology that's associated with the rising or the setting of the sun. Anyway, that's how I think I would, would go about doing it, if I was interested, like to really define, clearly identify the circadian rhythm or specify it.

Thank you, Alan. Any other thoughts for the panel?

It's a complicated question because that rhythm is pretty delicate and it is driven hormonally. Cortisol, melatonin. I mean, there, there's so many pieces of that. And for the most part, you know, maybe not here because you guys are such perfect human specimens, but out there in the world, you know, sympathetic drive, you know, stress drive is out of control, especially now more than ever. And it's been that way for as long as I've been here. So, you know, cortisol is driving that. And people, you know, if you start running labs on people and you start looking at their hormone levels or cortisol levels, they're pregnant, adolin levels, you just start understanding how depleted we all are. And, you know, I do believe I 100 agree. You know, like I'm a early to bed, early to rise. I catch sunrises. I love trying to connect that way. I think that that's a big piece of my attempt at managing my own stress levels and cortisol levels, you know, connecting to the earth. But that also could be like using PEMF to connect to certain rhythms right, Electrically. So I think there's a couple pieces, you know, reduce your stress, slash, become more resilient, right? You know, the stress is like in this bucket, right? Your bucket is filling up and eventually, you know, most of us are overflowing. So in a lot of ways we're all looking at like, how do I empty that bucket, how do I remove these stressors? And in some cases that's very easy to do, but in cases, most, most cases it's not. And so sometimes, you know, 16 ounces of, let's just say 16 ounces of stuff in a 16 ounce bucket that's full, right? But are you as healthy as you could possibly be? Because 16 ounces of stuff in a 32 ounce bucket doesn't feel so bad. And so your health and your resilience, your ability to get healthier in spite of the stress that you're all facing, that we're all facing helps shift how our body starts to respond to those levels of stress, even if we couldn't reduce the actual amount of stress. So I think it's like everything else that we're doing, it's a multi dimensional approach. Get healthier so that you're more resilient. Find the stressors that are easy to address and figure out ways of reducing them. Connect with people who have strategies, connect to devices that help fill in the void that we can't do because of the life in the world that we.

We live in.

And I think eventually you might get a little closer to connecting to that Circadian river.

Beautiful. Yeah, I. I love the ogna or suggestion. I remember when I first met Allan, we were in Santa Barbara and we sat there and I just was blown away. I'm sorry, you burned cow poop together? Well, we were. No, we. We were at a hotel. Was it like the Ritz or something in Santa Barbara? And they were going to send a tech out for that, for the chair that you guys experienced. And they couldn't find a tech, so they sent, like, the top guy, right?

The guy that developed it.

And so we had just a wonderful conversation. And so, you know, for me, burning the. Doing that ritual would be ideal. Right. But let's face it, you know, we have busy lives. So what I started to play around with was the photon and putting that on in the room. And I think that that's a good compromise, right? Because the essence of that is this strong signaling that, hey, it's time to wake up. And then also, hey, the day's winding up, right? And it's time to switch into more of a parasympathetic. So your cortisol is your stress, right? That wakes you up, it gets you going. It allows you to get things done at night. Melatonin is what cortisol is during the day, what melatonin is at night to put us in a parasympathetic state. So you have sympathetic during the day, and you want a strong parasympathetic activation, which is darkness. And that's why you don't want a lot of bad light in your house. Like, I don't use the can lights, you know, I have lamps with red lights in them. I have red rope light. Think I got you on that deal as well. Looks like a submarine in my house. And it's. It's so calming. And when you start doing this, you start to go to other places. Like you, to a friend's house. You're like, how are you dealing? Like, this is crazy. I'm so activated, right? So I think after the age of 40, I think everybody should really seriously considering supplementing with melatonin, not just for the sleep, but for that powerful activation of the parasympathetic nervous system, because we're also sympathetically activated. This is one of the primary causes of a lot of diseases right now because it's a Stressor that we just haven't like adapted to. Right. I mean there's, we're just too busy, there's too many toxins, there's. Our guts aren't healthy. You know, you just go on down the road. Emf, light pollution. The best thing I would recommend is when you wake up one of the easiest things to do is go out and sun gaze, look at the sun directly. Right. And that's going to be a really powerful. And then you can start getting into using the photon in the morning, in the afternoon or at sunset and that can be really helpful. Maybe supplementing with some melatonin. You know, those would be my suggestions.

Yeah, I would agree with everything I was actually going to mention before John did. The idea of your light environment and the concepts of, of light pollution. I mean everybody look up right now and tell me that that looks just like sunlight.

Not really. Right.

Stare at it for a couple seconds. Go ahead, tell me what, tell me what you're retina doing. Did it kind of start to jam a little bit? That low level flicker, Even if you're not looking at it, you're bathed in the mat. In many lighting environments that overhead fluorescent lighting. How many of you in here actually know what lighting is in the cans in your home? Yeah, like a few people, maybe 20%. So basically Ian, you go through your house and it needs to be either incandescent, preferably red incandescent in areas of the home where you're sleeping. Although Biden, bless his heart, is now trying to outlaw all incandescent. I think start here in a few months. So stock up on your bulbs. The main reason is that they're energy hogs but I think it's worth the circadian rhythmicity, the trade off for a little bit extra money you'll spend on your energy bill. Halogen is also really good as are some of the newer forms of low flicker OLED lighting. Whether that be your computer monitor or like BenQ or ISO. E I Z O are two good brands for computer monitors. Apps like Iris on the actual computer itself and then basically going through all your sleeping areas, preferably master bedroom, master bathroom, kids sleeping areas, etc to replace everything with real nice soft red light or amber light. And then in all the other areas of the house, incandescent if you can do it, or halogen or oled, preferably with no dimmer switches because the dimmer switches kick off a lot of emf. So a lot of people would be healthier and they would sleep better if they just did a lighting audit. Of their home. It'll take you like one Saturday afternoon to do, right? And then you've got a really good setup for the rest of your life.

That's good.

So one of the questions was about oral hygiene. And John, I'd like to kick that over to you.

Yeah, so we talked a lot about that, and it's kind of on and off throughout the day. And you mentioned about how that, how important that was with some of your fillings and root canals. And, you know, it's really such an important part of health and healing. I have this idea of taking care of your doorway. Right. So Ganesh is the Hindu lord of doorways or new beginnings. So I call it the Ganesh protocol.

Right.

And so this is basically taking care of your nasal, your oral, and your colon.

Right?

These are the three primary doorways that create inflammation in the body. So what happens is you have microbial growth that release something called endotoxins. And these endotoxins are incredibly inflammatory. You know, you could almost point to just about every disease and have some connection with this influx of endotoxins. We don't really talk much about sinus hygiene, right. People talk about brushing your teeth and flossing, blah, blah, blah. But who's talking about nasal hygiene? So that's why I think, you know, using a neti pot, we. I formulated something called Glutastat and we have it where it's in a mist. And I recommend a 30 day sinus protocol when I first start working with people. And they'll use this mist four times a day. We actually test people for something called Markovs. We find it on, like, you know, 70% of the patients we test. It's a really nasty infection. Probably a lot of you here have it and just don't know, but it's hard to get rid of. So you got to do something somewhat intense for 30 days. We have a, the 30 day sinus protocol that we can make available to everybody. Well, in fact, we'll email it to you as a follow up and we can also attach it with the podcast. And so after you do that 30 day sinus protocol, you had to do something to kind of do like a daily practice where you do it like once a day, you keep it in your car. And then for oral, you know, I'm going to bring a friend up in a second here that can talk a little bit more about it. But what I have is this essential oil blend called Boca Zen. And I have people put it in their mouth, move it all around their gums and then take a toothpick and kind of push it between all of the teeth. And then obviously for the gut, you know, you have to look at your microbiome. You know, I think one of the best ways to address that is with the probiozen yogurt recipe. And we'll also make that available to everybody and make sure that that's on in the show. Notes John, would you come, come up. John Osberger, he's one of the top biological dentists in the country. He's got, he's got a 20,000 square foot facility. I thought mine was pretty big at 15,000. And has a similar setup here where they have cooking classes and they have events and anyway, chef and a garden.

Food is our model. So it's. My wife Ally and I were from Denver. We have the Human Universal Health Institute in Denver, Colorado.

It's.

That's huinstitute.com I am biodentist.com. i've been a biological dentist over 30 years now. I became a dentist because of my dad. He was an orthodontist. So I started out as a lab technician, became a dentist, realized that I am nothing but an insurance driven tooth mechanic. To me it seemed like early in my career that it was all about the repair. It is not about the disease. Right. So choose your dentist wisely. So where I'm at right now is I'm training doctors and dentists and healthcare professionals to see the mouth in a way that is in a coherent way with the rest of the body. The question is about oral hygiene. So I'll say this. The one thing about oral hygiene, when you go to the hygienist to get your teeth clean, what I call that is removing the evidence. Okay? So if you're having biofilm buildup in your mouth and you're going to get that all scraped off, off over and over and over again. And for some of us it comes back a lot faster than others. Right? And that is because the body's going, the body's in an acid state. Acid is going to acidity. Acidemia is going to have a, is going to have a calcification effect where if you have tartar buildup on your teeth and what are the other calcification diseases in the body? Cataracts, gallstones, kidney stones, breast cancer, the list goes on. So when I see a patient that's got all of this inflammation in the mouth and all these biofilms, what it's about is really getting the body in harmony with the mouth and getting the conditions Right. Okay. Because if the conditions aren't right, say that there's whatever is creating inflammation. Inflammation is an acid producing event. Right? So you're going to have dental disease. If you have inflammation in the body, it becomes a suspicious cycle because then if you go to the toothpaste mechanic and you get metal in your mouth, you know, you get the dissimilar metals creating the battery effect.

Okay.

Because that's what a. Dissimilar metals in a wet acid environment. That's battery. Okay. And then you start.

We.

We had to talk about the root canals. You mentioned this book. So this is a patient of ours on the COVID I'm Tom's. Tom Levy's dentist. I've been working with Tom for about 25 years. I was one of the 12 dentists that did the research on root canals. Used to work for a guy named Hal Huggins. Anyway, long, long story. I got involved in biological dentistry a really, really long time ago because I really felt like I noticed I was harming patients because I would do something routine to one patient and get great results, like a filling, and then I do the exact same procedure for somebody else, and they'd have pain. Okay, so what's the difference, the conditions in the patient's body, Right? So that was the first thing that woke me up as a dentist, that I just realized that it's incentivized disease care. It's not health care. Let's stop calling it health care. It's disease care. So to get the conditions right in the body, it really boils down to the gut and the gut, the gap junctions and the leaky mouth, leaky brain, leaky gut, leaky sinuses, leaky tonsils, leaky teeth. Okay? So it's leaky everything. We developed protocol. My wife and I trained in Switzerland. We found a. We found a private health care system in Switzerland where it's all biological medicine, and it's really about getting the biological conditions right in the body while we're doing the process of getting the hostage situation out of the mouth with dead teeth. When I became a naturopath, I did my thesis on how to keep teeth alive. And that's a conversation. A tooth is the only body part that can't swell, right? So the swelling is a tool the body uses, right? Just like pain, just like fever, these are tools, okay? And these need to be upregulated and they need to be steered instead of suppressed, okay? So that's why I'm training dentists and doctors right now to really understand what it is we're doing for our patients and then working with doctors that are biologically minded to have a protocol to work with a patient as we go through a septic experience called taking the death out, like holding root canal teeth and a thing called jawbone cavitations, which is a whole nother conversation about where you get your wisdom teeth pulled. It's a stagnation disease that is in the jaw bone, and it's a really, really, really big deal. Okay. And a lot of. If you've had teeth pulled and. And not had it properly taken out, like, if you had a tooth pulled and they had an open hole, well, that's kind of like a gunshot wound, right? That's a hole in the depth of the. In the bone marrow. So it's really. How. What does the body do and what can we do as surgeons, as biological dentists to. When we do surgery in jawbones and we go to that level and we get in there and we. We're knocking all the biofilm that's out of, you know, the gangrene that's down inside the jawbones. How do we protect our patients through this? So they don't have. Our patients really just don't have pain and very little swelling. And the patients that swell are the ones that we really. That really have more work to do on the excretion pathways and things like that. So to make a long story short, the mouth and the body are intimately connected. And getting the conditions right means that your mouth just really stays clean. Right. So it's really getting. Getting to that harmony misplaced inside your body. So that's a long, long conversation.

Ben, you want to chime in a little bit on that?

I'm pretty sure he covered it.

Yeah, I agree.

Although I guess the last thing I throw in is that bulk and stuff that John makes. I usually put that in a little bit of coconut oil in the morning, just like swish it all over for about 10 minutes, and then spit in the trash can out the sink of the toilet because it clogs stuff up. But that's amazing for coconut oil.

Yeah, Oil pulling is really an amazing. It's another ayurvedic method you just take. Olive oil is usually typically.

What's way easier than burning ghee on top of a cow.

Should we have John back up here to respond?

Back up. Did you hear the question?

Bleeding gums in the presence of COVID post? Covid and bleeding gums. Sounds like a fringe question for a dentist.

Leaky gut, leaky gums, leaky Teeth leaky, brain leaky, everything, right?

Yep.

So gap junctions, right? So we got to shore up the microbiome. So the microbiome needs to be diverse, okay? And that's why if anybody start going off, stop using alcohol mouthwashes, immediately pour them down the drain, okay? Everybody needs to understand ozone, the molecule. You can really, you know, medical devices for insufflation that you want to get to the bloodstream, but really you can buy ozone machines for 50, 60, $70 and make your own water at home. 70 bucks. So, you know, my patients, this is something they just get, you know, they. They get ozone machines. If I'm their dentist, they have an ozone machine.

It's required.

Okay? It's not an option. So now that's a topical approach. In the mouth, you're making water, you're swishing, you're brushing with it and things like that. But ozone is. Ozone's such a beautiful molecule. And then when it's done being ozone and delivering its electron, it's oxygen, right? It's back to that. So, I mean, when we really think about this, removing, dissolving biofilms and from the topical direction, that's a very important thing. But really, it's. It's an inside job. Just like beauty, just like skin, your dental health is an inside job, right? So bleeding gums, that's a sign, you know, just like it's not normal, it's not okay for gums to bleed.

Right?

And, and what's driving the inflammation? You know, I talked about the hostage situation in the mouth. So, you know, you have to have the dead teeth removed. They're not okay. We're the only dent. We're the only medical profession that thinks, you know, a taxidermy appointment for your tooth is a good idea to get you out of pain. It's flawed completely. You know, and the opioid epidemic that I think my profession started, quite frankly, when you have a surgical experience through. Through with a protocol, and the conditions are right, and the microbiome is upregulated, you see, and you go through a septic experience called getting this dead crap out of your mouth, then the. The pain and swelling later is. Is much, much less. So anyway, I can talk to anybody later about that, but it's, you know, bleeding gums, that's a sign.

So the question is, there's oil pilling, but also, what's the principle of using colostrum as a mouth rinse? Or do you have any experience with colostrum?

I would say using it topically, I don't have experience with that, but taking it systemically.

Absolutely. It's because the salivary enzymes activate a lot of the growth factors in colostrum, which makes sense because when a baby mammal is suckling up the teeth, the first thing that hits its mouth is a colostrum. And that helps to seal the lining of a leaky gut in a young mammal. And so when you're consuming colostrum, this is how I do it, is I'll put a scoop of the colostrum in my mouth and then just hold it and swish it around for about a minute or so and then swallow. But you can still like. I'll put it in smoothies too, because I make my smoothies super thick, so I'm kind of like working them around in my mouth anyways. You're not wasting if you want, put in a smoothie. Just the idea is don't like, just like put in water and chug it down. Like, it's got to kind of hit the mouth to be fully activated.

The final written question is on melatonin, and how much should be taken daily in what form? And is there an optimal cycle between taking it and not taking it?

So I'll start with those. Yeah, there's a lot as you can fit into your butt at one time.

Yeah. Because, John, how many did you get up to when. 10 was the last I heard.

Yeah, a lot.

Yeah.

Yeah. Well, we don't go there.

Go ahead, John.

So rectal delivery of melatonin, I think is the best timed release.

Right.

So there's a lot of time release products you can take, but they're tiny dosages, which I don't really find the best route as well. So higher dosage. I was exposed to the work of Russell Ryder, who's an MD and a PhD, and he himself, at 89 years old, I think, was taking 100 to 200 milligrams every night. And I watched a YouTube video. And then shortly after, I went to Frank Shallenberger's clinic and did an internship with him. And he's prescribing 200 milligrams, sometimes 200 during the day, 200 at night. Having people take it day and night. Cancer, a lot of degenerative neurologic disease. And he recommended me do that because I was still kind of after my Lyme and my mold. I had a lot of word finding. My brain just wasn't working. And so he recommended that. And it cleared it up and then some. So you can take larger dosages than what is typically Recommended. And most, the most common argument is that it's going to shut down your own production, which is total, totally untrue because you don't have a negative feedback with melatonin like you do a lot of other hormones. So there's nothing to worry about there. And then they've done studies on toxicity and the word toxic and melatonin should never even be used in the same sentence because if you look at all the research, like if you, if you take my book and you go through and you pull up some of those articles, what you'll see is the researchers at the end on almost all of them say there seems to be no toxicity here, we should do more research. And they see all, they state all this benefit. It seems to help everything from cancer to gut to infection to healing skin, mental, emotional, hormone issues. I mean, you name it, it's just incredible. So with the suppository, it takes about 30 to 45 minutes before it really kicks in. So I recommend people take that, you know, a little bit before they're ready to go. We have a liposomal version and I don't know if there's any other versions in high dose liposomal available besides Sandman, but that seems to kick in quicker. And you can take that even like you know, 20 minutes before you want to go to bed. Sometimes people have an effect where they wake up and they're really groggy, right. And they kind of have that melatonin hangover. You might be a slow metabolizer. You're also going to metabolize caffeine slowly source, so you're going to know if that's you. So you might want to take it like at dinner time because if you've got light in your eyes and you take melatonin, you're not going to get tired because that melatonin within the pineal gets activated with darkness. So you, you can be fine. And that's why 80% of the population can literally take melatonin during the day. And that's why, you know, with there's more significant types of issues that we want to deal with, the patients will actually dose them day and night. And these people do really well during the day. So you take it a little bit earlier. And the other thing is when you wake up, go out and look at the sun, get sunlight in your eyes, get a photon, use a photon, you know, do something. You can get a blue light. They sell blue lights that, you know, if it's really rainy, you can turn the blue light on. I know Ben uses it when he travels. Right. So he pulses it when he has more stress. So melatonin is the ultimate stress resilient molecule. So, I mean, how are you more under stress than when you're traveling? You know, you've got a plane, you're stressing. I'm gonna make the flight. Tsa, you had some issues with TSA that you get snowed in. Are you gonna make it?

So, I mean, in brief, what I'll do is.

When I'm at home in my own zone, I try not to be attached to much at all. And once I've recovered from travel, I don't really use melatonin when I'm at home unless I've been exposed to a lot of bright light at night. Occasionally our family might, you know, watch a TV show or something in the evenings. I happen, like once a month. And even though I wear blue light blocking glasses, I'll sometimes take the melatonin after that. But generally what I do is when I'm traveling and I get to where I'm going, I actually take two of the Sandman suppositories the first day when I happen to be outside of my time zone. Oh, what's that come out to, like?

Well, the Sandman's 200 and the Super Sandman 4.

400 milligrams or so. I just take it about 30 to 40 minutes prior to bed. And then the next night I'll typically do that again. And then the third night I'll typically just do like one. And then if I'm having any trouble sleeping on subsequent evenings, I'll cut that in half when I get back home, I'll do two the first night I get back home. And then after that, the only other thing I keep on hand is some of the oral Sandman that John makes. So I'll kind of like peek it when I travel and then come down, taper off the dosage, and peek it again when I travel. I mean, it works fantastically for me. And honestly, I can stop using cold turkey and I'm fine, but it just takes me, like, my sleep latency, see, is a little bit longer. And so I. I prefer to just use it to support travel. And then when I'm at home and I'm kind of like back into my normal circadian rhythmicity, I taper off it, and that's my protocol.

Yeah, well, one other way to use it, just like we talked about with the methylene blue, is if you're coming down with something or if you have an infection There's a huge body of research showing how melatonin, basically we talked about that, that mitochondrial shift, right. So the cytokine or the inflammation from an infection is going to shut down your mitochondria within your immune cells. So you're not fighting that battle as robustly as you could. So what supplementing with melatonin has shown to do is to turn that energy from the anaerobic back into the aerobic glycolysis within the mitochondria and you get like this 90% boost back with your immune. So anytime you have an insurance infection might be a, a great time to look at doing higher doses of melts. And we're talking about extra pineal, right? This conversation is, is not necessarily just for circadian rhythm. Smaller doses might be fine for that. They haven't like done research on really looking at like the full spectrum of dosing and how it might relate to circadian rhythm versus this, all these phenomenon that we're talking about with extra pineal melatonins. But it is something that could be safe to do long term. I've probably been taking very high doses of melatonin for four or five years now and I can stop taking it for a few days or a week and I feel fine. My aura ring scores are still high. I don't fall off a cliff. So I can tell you personally, I've been my own guinea pig and the research seems to support the conclusion.

Yeah, thank, thank you all for this. We're out of time for the session.

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