Pro Baseball Pitcher Noah Syndergaard's Thor Biohacking Routine, Jet Lag Hacks, and More.

Fitness, nutrition, biohacking, longevity, life optimization, spirituality, and a whole lot more. Welcome to the Ben Greenfield Life Show. Are you ready to hack your life? Let's do this. Hey folks, before we dive into the podcast with pro baseball pitcher Noah Syndergaard, aka a Thor, you should know that there is a point during this podcast where a controversial topic comes up, at least controversial among nerded-out biohackers, namely that some infrared saunas might have toxic products in wood because the wood has been imported and exposed to toxins or contains volatile organic compounds, including the claim that the wood that's used in saunas like Clearlight or Sunlighten is imported from China and would contain things you don't want to be breathing in when you're in the sauna. I dug into this. So, first of all, if you go to the shownotes at BenGreenfieldLife.com/ThorPodcast, I was able to hunt down all the certificates of registration, the Sustainable Forest Initiative certificate along with the chemical analysis of all the wood used in the sauna that I use, which is the Clearlight Infrared Sauna. It's Fantastic sauna in my opinion. And, I also talked with Clearlight to dig into this. Turns out none of the wood that they use is grown in China. Their mahogany is from North Africa. The base wood is from Canada. The hemlock framing wood they use is from Canada. The wood certificates they use, again, are going to be attached in the shownotes to this podcast. And, they purchase their woods from Western Forest Products in Canada. For the mahogany that they use, that's from National Forest Products Industry Corporation, and they are what's called an FSC-certified producer. Clearlight buys the natural wood. It's 100% untreated kiln-dried wood, so it does not need to be fumigated. They don't fumigate the saunas when they import to North America. The wood is never fumigated for saunas designed for North America. And when importing into some other countries, they require it, but not for the U.S. and Canada market. So ultimately, You do not need to be worried about breathing in toxins and VOCs when you're in a Clearlight sauna at least, which is the one that I did my research into because honestly that's the one that's in my basement. You, of course, should make sure that you use non-toxic cleaning supplies in your sauna, that you wipe it down after you sweat because your sweat has metals in it, but the actual sauna itself is safe. So, I hope that clears the air. Haha, see what I did there? And let's go and listen to my conversation with Thor.

Well, folks, I've been arranging this podcast behind the scenes for the past couple of months. My guest on this show was actually going to be doing this live with me up in Spokane, but he had some snafus as did I. So, we're recording virtually for you. He just came off the rooftop in a beautiful Manhattan beach whereas I'm stuck in snowy Spokane, Washington. But, we're making it happen either way. My guest is Noah Syndergaard. You might know him as Thor. He's an American professional baseball pitcher and he played in MLB for— he's played for the Mets, the Angels, the Phillies, the Dodgers, Cleveland Guardians. So, you might be wondering why I picked Noah as a guy that I really want to interview on the show. Well, it's because you might have seen him appear in GQ Magazine amongst many other places as a guy who's a very forward-thinking athlete. He's got almost like— I don't know if anybody's ever called you this, Noah, or if it rubs you the wrong way if someone did, but kind of like the Tom Brady of baseball or something like that. All of your biohacking and red light and earthing and grounding and BFR training and nose-to-tail eating and all these things that GQ Magazine talked about in their interview about, I think it was titled "Noah Syndergaard Thinks Baseball Has Gotten Soft and Humans Have Too." That one definitely I thought was very interesting. And, you're up to a lot of stuff that I think would be super cool to hear about. So anyways, if you're listening right now, all the shownotes are going to be at BenGreenfieldLife.com/ThorPodcast. That's BenGreenfieldLife.com/ThorPodcast. And I guess I should ask you right off the bat, Noah, how did you get the nickname Thor?

First of all, I just wanted to say thank you for having me on. It's a huge honor to be here. I've been listening and learning from your guidance and wisdom for a long time. So, when you asked me to be on it, it felt like I was getting called up to the big leagues or getting drafted again. So, I'm just extremely honored and humbled to be here. I actually have a funny Tom Brady story too. I recently met him and they are saying, "Don't meet your heroes" kind of thing. It wasn't like he was a bad guy, it was just like I had been drinking a little bit at this party and I was kind of busting his balls about if he was going to have any nightshades. And then, I asked him what his favorite recovery modality was and he's like, "Ah, I've kind of tried them all but I don't really stick with any of them." Ben Greenfield: Oh, man.

I was hoping he might have said infrared pajamas while he sipped on an eggplant martini.

Noah Kagan: Infrared pajamas do sound awesome actually. The Thor nickname is not super exciting, but I think I got it when I was still with— I was drafted by the Blue Jays in 2010. And, one of their fans on Twitter correlated like Sendergaard, the Gard, G-A-A-R-D, and my last name to Thor's home realm of Asgard. And, that was even before I had long hair. I started growing my hair out in 2015. So, I actually have a dog named Thor and I don't want people to think that it's just like I'm so infatuated with that moniker, but we got him when I was a junior in high school.

So, yeah. Yeah. Well, I've got a dog named Dasher, but I don't really fancy the nickname Dasher. And, my dog before that was Rupert.

Big into reindeer.

I wouldn't want Rupert. I did have a Bruno. I wouldn't mind a Bruno. I have a Comet who's— yeah, a lot of our dogs are named after reindeer actually. So, the Thor thing's interesting because you actually are— are you considered to be pretty big as far as an MLB pitcher goes?

Yeah, I think I'm probably one of the biggest pitchers. I'm like 6'7", 250. I got up to 260 at one point. Yeah. I guess there's Aroldis Chapman. He's pretty big too. I'm trying to think if there's anybody else. I think I'm a little bit of an anomaly there.

Yeah, yeah. And, I get the impression that at least from what I've seen of you and read about you even though you and I haven't talked much in the past besides just some random back-and-forth texts that you're kind of an outside-the-box thinker or at least a little bit of a pattern interrupt when it comes to things like fitness and recovery and diet. Have you always been kind of wired up that way like thinking outside the box as far as your own performance and recovery?

I think this path has really started. I was a chubby late bloomer when I was in my teens. And, I had suffered from a little bit of bullying, not necessarily from my peers or other teammates because I could always hold my own there, but just from other coaches. I think probably 3 or 4 that tried to motivate me by putting me down. I didn't really see it that way. So, I think there was one day I was at Chili's with my dad. And my mom was on a business trip. And instead of ordering a soft drink, I decided to transition to just having some water. And from that point on, it just exponentially increased. Yeah, I was always the pickiest eater too when I was younger and now I'll eat just about anything. If I could narrow it down to 5 food groups that I would consume. I am a bit of a foodie, but I'm also super into the health and wellness. I do grass-fed, grass-finished beef cooked in either tallow or— the great thing about being in California right now is you get access to raw dairy, so I could go to the grocery store. Love Erewhon.

You like the $30 jars of fancy yogurt from Erewhon, huh?

That's pretty much all I spend my money on. That's just a passion of mine. Some guys like watches and I like raw dairy or $40 growlers of oxygenated water.

Air One actually is pretty fantastic. I'm heading down to LA in a couple of weeks and I always swing by there and hit up the hot bar in the cafe for the cauliflower buffalo bites and the raw cakes. And, they have a pretty good range of stuff, but it empties your wallet pretty quickly. I think in the GQ Magazine article, maybe it was there that I was reading, that you implement a little bit more of a nose-to-tail approach when it comes to your meat.

I did that article maybe 2 years ago and I feel like even just 2 years ago, I'm a completely different person. I think— Oops! Did you hear that?

I can hear your phone dinging, but that's okay. You can turn off the EMF, man, switch it into airplane mode.

Well, that's what these headphones are right here, are EMF blocking.

I noticed that. For people who are watching the video, by the way, Noah's wearing the special headphones. You could probably tell people what they are, Noah, but they're a very special form of headphone that lowers EMF. They're like air tubes, right?

Yeah. They're the Defender Shield brand, I do believe that you told me about. Yeah. And then, so you got grass-fed, grass-finished beef cooked in tallow, raw butter, corn and soy-free eggs. Which I mean some people just go to the grocery store and the options are just completely overwhelming with organic, pasture-raised. What the hell does all this mean? Corn and soy-free is I think all you really need to know about that. Raw dairy and bone broth and fermented vegetables. And, I'm actually in the process of finishing Kate Shanahan's book, "Deep Nutrition." Ben Greenfield: Oh, my gosh, that's a classic.

That book is so good for anybody who wants to wrap their head around the whole seed oil thing. She was one of the first people to champion the idea that you really need to think about the kind of oils that you take in based on cell membranes and the adherence of that stuff in the mitochondrial membrane. I don't know how old that book is, but Kate's been around for a while.

I can't even go to restaurants anymore without thinking about it. There's so many restaurants that serve or claim to have grass-fed, grass-finished, but they use canola oil or soybean oil, any kind of vegetable oil really. As far as nose-to-tail, there was a time where I was freezing liver and then I would take it out, chop it up really fine, and just shove it in the back of my throat and chase it down with an Element.

Yeah, the Elements, the electrolyte packs. Yeah, yeah. You know, the Liver King's approach is honey and sea salt. The way I do is I just freeze them and put them in smoothies.

I have a great Liver King story actually. I used to be a huge advocate of his, but I was completely off him even before he was exposed for steroids because when I was with the Phillies last year, We were playing the Astros and I just thought it'd be a great networking tool to leave him some tickets when we were in Houston. And, I figured that if you're in the family section and he would know that you're a Phillies fan at that point and he was also messaging everybody on the team like Zach Wheeler, JT Romuto, Bryce Harper with the same copy and paste, "Hey, Primal Zach. Hey, Primal JT. Hey, Primal." Vice and like, "Oh, we have Liver King on our side." But, I'm not super active on social media. If I need to download something or put something on Instagram, I'll download the app or I'll just have someone do it in my agency, do it really quickly and then I'll delete it. And, it's been great for my mental health. So, left him tickets and he was tagging me on Instagram with Astros baseball and I'm like, "What the heck is going on?" And then, Apparently, he was taking raw liver shots and raw egg shots with Orbit, their mascot, in the family section. And, the girl I was dating at the time actually went up to him and called him out and she's like, "You're dead to me." And, she's like, "What?" He's like, "Yeah, how can you be an Astros fan?" And, I left him tickets for his wife, himself, and his two sons. And allegedly, his two sons had traded tickets with someone else so they could sit with their friends. And so, now I had two fully grown men in Astros jerseys in the family section.

Oh, he was wearing an Astros jersey?

Yeah, in our family section.

Oh, geez.

And then, I was curious to how open and honest he'd be about it. So, I text him like, "Oh, did your sons enjoy the game?" And he's like, "Oh, they actually traded tickets with their buddies so they could sit." And then, he's like, "Oh, everyone was super grateful and nice except for this one person." And, it was this girl I was dating at the time. So, at that point, he lost my support. And, I'd always defend him when people were like, "Oh, he's definitely on steroids." I'm like, "He may or may not be on steroids, but that's just a dangerous thing to speculate." I got people that were saying, "Oh, he's definitely on steroids." I'm like, "You haven't even been to a gym before. How are you going to say that?" It's just a very dangerous thing to just claim upon somebody. But, I think Paul Saladino is the true liver king. I do take his nose-to-tail supplements.

Ben Greenfield: He's got good stuff. And, by the way, the person who I would trust the most when it comes to just at a glance saying whether or not someone is on steroids is probably Derek, the More Plates More Dates guy. He seems to have a pretty good eye for that. Obviously, you can tell based on the eyebrows, the forehead. The shape of the jaw, kind of the protrusion of the abdominals, whether or not growth hormone is present. There's some telltale signs. And, I think most people who know those telltale signs weren't really convinced that Bryan Johnson, the Liver King, was all natural. But, yeah, he's a very interesting guy. I mean, he's actually a pretty smart businessman and I think he's probably even more intelligent than kind of the meathead vibe he puts off on social media. But, He has made some critical mistakes, that's for sure.

If I'm on steroids, then why would I not spending 10 minutes in the cold plunge? I first came across him when he did that MTV Cribs-style tour of his house and there's no Wi-Fi, it's all ethernet-based, his gym is immaculate, his kitchen setup's awesome, the hot tub that's actually a cold plunge at 33 degrees. He's all about grounding and sunshine in the morning. So, I'm like, "This just doesn't make any sense. If I'm on steroids, then I'm not doing that. I'm not cheating. If I'm going to cheat the system, I'm not going to put in all that hard work." Ben Greenfield: Yeah, yeah, it is interesting.

And, that's also kind of clutch what you said about social media, how you'll delete the app and maybe install if you have to post something. But, I think it was an interview that Tim Ferriss had with, I believe his name is Sam. He was the CEO or now he's still involved with Levels, the blood glucose testing company. I don't think he's a CEO anymore, but he talked about how his MO is he just has an executive assistant who will choose posts, put together posts, and then pass them by him for final approval. And, that's the way that I do things is I We'll take photos and then just send them over to a social media assistant. Shout out to Heather if she's listening in. And, she'll put the right hashtags on it and post it and everything. And, I try even though I occasionally post my own natural stuff to Instagram, I try to outsource it as much as possible just so it's that many fewer times you have to open up those apps. And then, same thing with my sons. I tell them, "Look." And, they don't have any social media apps on either of their devices because they literally at 15 years old have a social media manager. Meaning, if they have videos, photos, anything, they send them to her, she monitors comments. If there's a comment they need to reply to, she'll email them and ask them what they want to say. But, it's so much more clean and less distracting on device when you're not managing your own socials and only posting if you absolutely have to.

Yeah. Social media is a dangerous harsh world. And, I really haven't been super present on it since I left the Mets, and especially because the last 2 years have been kind of a kick in the balls, just kind of struggling, and I just don't really want to see people's opinions and they can just hide behind their little keyboards.

Yeah. What happened? Why are you struggling?

I think it has a lot to do with I tried to reinvent myself when I had Tommy John surgery because never again in your career are you going to have 12 to 18 months to really reinvent yourself. Most of the off-seasons are 3 to 4 months long and it's just all about rebuilding and getting ready for the next season. So, I just really went on this path and it got to the point where I almost felt like I had the YIPS and I forgot how to pitch naturally. And then, once I had that setback, I thought the original MRI, the doctor that read it thought I had another tear in my UCL. And, I'm like, "You got to be kidding me." I can't do a more perfect, better rehab. And, I failed and I hadn't even got back to competition yet. So, I don't know if my body went into a fight-or-flight lockdown mode and just stored that trauma somehow, but I just hadn't been the same since then. I feel like each offseason has had a different theme for me. Last year, I was with the Angels for most of the season and then, I got traded to the Phillies and I had a pretty good season for the most part. I just wasn't the same. I wasn't throwing 100 miles an hour. I was like 93 to 96 really and still my mechanics were off. And then, I got traded to the Phillies and I was serviceable as a backend starter. Went all the way to World Series. It was a great experience. And then, once the season was over, I went to— most guys stopped throwing, I continued to throw. I went to this baseball training facility on the East Coast that's called Shred Athletics, it's Immaculate Training Facility. And, they had some ideas for me and then I was going to another place in Arizona, but they're based in Kent, Washington actually. It's called Driveline. And they had another idea for me and I decided to go with Dr. Driveline's method. And I don't really think that was the right fit for me. And then I went to see Dr. Harry Adelson, did the whole full-body stem cell makeover, and I think it helped out, but I don't think I gave myself enough time to recover from that because at that point it was like December 1st and then you got to start throwing and training.

How soon after getting the full-body stem cell protocol did you have to get back into training and lifting or traveling?

Yeah, I gave myself 2 weeks or so.

Yeah, that's a decent amount of time. I mean, with that thing though, different people recover in different ways. I find because I've done that protocol 3 times now, I think, the full-body stem cell makeover, And, I'm usually pretty good to go within a couple of weeks to be lifting and traveling and pretty mobile, et cetera. And, the idea just for folks listening is you kind of want to baby all those new baby stem cells you have in your body and you don't drink for several weeks, you avoid heavy lifting and joint loading, try not to do a lot of airline travel if you can, avoid inflammatory foods and just live super-duper clean with walking and swimming and yoga and stuff like that for your primary exercise modalities. But, I've had some clients do it and they're literally sometimes 4 to 6 weeks before they're really able to take on a heavy load. And, you're right, if you don't time that window properly, you don't quite get all the benefits. I remember the first time I did it, I raced a Spartan Race a week later and I was kind of upset with myself afterwards because I could tell I kind of messed up a lot of the work he'd done.

Yeah. I mean, it was just my first time doing it. I'd definitely do it again. And then, I signed with the Dodgers, which are essentially like they've been known to fix everybody. I did a lot of very super intentional deliberate work with their coaches for 3 months. And, I think it was still going down the wrong path movement patterning-wise. It's just kind of disappointing because all I ever did was work out or work hard, and try. And then, the season started and I had a really good first start, but then it was just downhill ever since then. And, it was just kind of the analogy I use is trying to change the tires on a car while it's still moving. And, it's really hard to make drastic changes in your delivery and your mechanics when you still have to compete every 5 days. And, the Dodgers don't have the patience to allow you to. I mean, the Dodgers are like they have certain expectations and I wasn't meeting them. And then, I got put on what they call the Phantom IL, which is basically come up with a— they use my blister. I had blister on my finger to put me on the IL for 2 months.

Wait, what do you mean when you say they had a blister on your finger to put you on the IL?

They call it the Phantom IL, which is, I mean, you're on the IL but it's not really for really like an actual issue. It's just the point where they don't want to release you, they want to give you an opportunity to just take a little break and figure some things out. And, I was kind of getting on the right path and then I got traded to the Guardians before I ever made it back to the big leagues with the Dodgers. I was making some rehab outings in the minor leagues and I was performing pretty well. Still wasn't like the old me, but I think a lot of it has to do with I had been throwing nonstop for the last 3 to 4 years. You start throwing and you're Tommy John rehab depending on your surgeon. My surgeon recommends— it was Dr. Olczyk in New York— 4 months before you start throwing and then you're throwing all the way to month 15. So, it's pretty grueling because they take the palmaris longus in your wrist, put in your elbow. Basically, it's a tendon has to turn into a ligament essentially. So, you got to stress it a little bit day by day to help fortify it. And then, I just had that setback at month 15 and then did stem cells, PRP from the team. The doctors did that. I didn't do that on my own. Stem cells from my hip, PRP, and I did 30 hard shell hyperbaric chamber sessions. And this is when I started going down this path of mental fortitude because I have my own soft-shell hyperbaric chamber and I never had any issues with it in terms of panic or anxiety. But, the hospital-grade hard-shell hyperbarics is a completely different animal. And, I went into it not knowing what to expect and I get there and I'm like, "Holy crap." I couldn't wear my contacts in there, I had to wear these other glasses. I'm looking through this acrylic lens at this TV, you can watch TV and there's always somebody there by your side. But, I was like, "It takes 10 minutes to get the pressure and if you want it out, it takes 10 minutes to get you out." Yeah.

And, that's at 2, 2.5 atmospheres compared to the 1.4, 1.5 you might get in a home unit.

Yeah. And, I think what it boils down to is the amount of control that my central nervous system had. I really had to relinquish a lot of control to the person operating. The machine. So, it would go 10 minutes to get to pressure and then there was— I did 30 sessions. I gutted it out, but almost every single time I had some severe anxiety at the beginning where the PA would have to come in and take me through a guided mindfulness meditation. And then, after that, I'd go from panic to crazy laughter by the end of the session. They're about 2-hour sessions and I did it.

Ben Greenfield: And, was it more like claustrophobia or was it more of the pressure in the head or something else that led to that sympathetic nervous system?

I didn't have any issues stabilizing my ears really. It was just, I think, the first time I did it, I had an anxiety attack because my legs were shaking uncontrollably, but I just focused on box breathing and meditation the whole time. So, I think my central nervous system started to affiliate oh, hyperbaric, not good, scary place. So, I just could not overcome that. And, the mind is such a powerful tool. For example, I never had an issue with flying and now it kind of makes me uneasy. I remember I made my debut in 2015 and I remember ever having any anxiety with flying until 2018 probably. And, that's kind of the the theme of this offseason is just working on the mental side of things.

Ben Greenfield: It's interesting actually. I have this theory about hyperbaric. I've been thinking about that breathing carbon dioxide based on the anxiolytic and actually some of the physiological benefits of carbon dioxide, especially for reducing lactate accumulation is something that I would actually like to see more hyperbaric companies playing around with like the ability to be able to breathe carbon dioxide rather than pure oxygen or introduce more carbon dioxide into the chamber. Dr. Mercola, who catches some flak I know, actually just published a very interesting article. Maybe I'll link to it in the shownotes. And, it's a 13-year-old video by kind of one of the OGs of anti-aging and longevity and health, Ray Peat. And, it's a whole treatise on why carbon dioxide is actually good for us. And there are, I think I talked about this when I interviewed James Nestor who wrote the book "Breathe," devices like the Carbogen that they'll use in people with trauma or PTSD to actually breathe carbon dioxide to lower anxiety and stress. And I'm just wondering if hospitals use some form of carbon dioxide in an HBOT chamber, if that's something that's feasible. And actually, I wrote to Hyperbaric Oxygen USA to Jason Sommers who runs that company actually just this morning to ask him about what it would take to outfit a hyperbaric chamber with the ability to breathe CO2 while you're in the chamber. So basically, you're looking at simultaneously elevated levels of O2 and CO2, which has a pretty interesting tissue oxygenation effect. So, that'd be interesting at some point, don't you think, to see what it would be like to breathe carbon dioxide in HBOT?

I mean, I'd be down to try that. Dr. Saunders is my guy right there. And I first heard of him listening to you guys talk. And, That's who helped me get my soft shell hyperbaric chamber.

Yeah, yeah. Shout out to HBOT. Hey, what else do you have in your wellness routine? Or, in my house, I call my Zen Den where I've got all my recovery tools scattered around. But, I'm curious what your go-tos are as far as what you have at home.

Okay. So, I'll take you through kind of my morning routine. I do love mornings. So, I wake up probably around between 6:00 and 7:00 and before I do anything before even my feet hit the ground. I just kind of give myself a little me time to check where I'm at, kind of give myself a little body scan. And then, I will typically go down to the beach and start with a little sunshine and grounding. I prioritize morning sunlight to get my circadian rhythm in sync. And, I normally would do like just sometimes I jump directly into the cold plunge, but that was a little intense. I'd like to give myself a little moment to prepare for that.

I've actually seen, and this is probably one reason why you see people in triathlons occasionally having heart attacks in the swim portion, evidence that the cold water could cause atrial fibrillation or cardiovascular issues if you just go straight from lying in bed to jumping in cold water. So, I'm kind of the same way. I feel like it's almost too much of a shock. And too much of a sympathetic nervous system activation or just wake up and jump into cold water within a few minutes. I'm usually not doing cold until a couple hours after I've gotten up, usually before I start my workday.

Ben Greenfield: Yeah. I have a Morozko Forge like you as well. And, I mean, 32 degrees when you first wake up and you still got sleep on your eyes, it's a lot. So, I'll either do 20 minutes of meditation on the beach or I'll help prepare my central nervous system for the shock of the cold water and do some Wim Hof breathing. And also, I don't know if you're— I'm sure you're familiar with BrainTap, but I do like that device a lot.

Describe the BrainTap to people.

The BrainTap is a— I mean, I have the headphone set to go along with it. So, it's just a headphone set that actually, I guess, it plays some sort of binaural beats or frequencies. It's got some kind of They have tons of programs and I guess it helps speak to your unconscious mind a little bit because sometimes you'll play a program and you'll have two different voices. And, I guess the point isn't to try to listen to both, but your unconscious mind is picking up on both. And then, it comes with a little visor as well. And, the headphones, the ears also have LEDs in them as well to, I guess, stimulate the inner ear muscle. And, the visor has LEDs in the visor as well to emit some sort of patterning. So, I think it's a really cool piece of equipment.

Yeah, I agree. I dig it. I'm not very hypnotizable and that thing will bring me to another planet, especially if I do the space journey or the Earth journey. There's one that's the medieval journey back to medieval times. Where a voice is just walking you through this whole new experience and adventure that you go on in your mind, but it's paired with, like you said, Noah, light and sound stimulation to the eyes and the ears and the photoreceptors in the ears. And so, it shifts the brain into this changed brainwave state dramatically. I even have a couple of friends who have gone through the— there's a whole series on there on how to use your own body as a pharmacy to kill pain. They've done it for low back pain and seen a remarkable positive effect on back pain when using the BrainTap back pain sessions. But, like you mentioned, there's hundreds of different sessions you can do. My favorites are the journeys. You ever messed around with any of those?

I don't think I have.

Yeah, you dig them. They're pretty cool. For those of you who may have heard a quick hiccup there in the interview, I had a tennis match this morning and rehydrated way too well, so I had to go take a potty break and Noah grabbed some water. And, he was just describing that he's only got one kind of water that he drinks. So, hold it up, Noah. What is it?

It's Mountain Valley. Throughout the MLB, I have been known as the green water bottle guy. And, it's kind of funny that— so, when I was with the Angels last year and we're playing the Phillies, where the buses drop us off, it's the longest walk to the visiting team clubhouse and you have to walk past the home clubhouse and they just had pallets of the sparkling versions and all their different flavors of the Mountain Valley and everyone's like, "Oh my god, Noah, this is your team." And I'm like, lo and behold, 2 months later I get traded there.

So— Yeah, Mountain Valley is pretty good. I believe it might be Jack Kruse who's big into minerals and magnesium amongst a few other, actually a lot of really great doctors. Dr. Leland Stillman, shout out to him, previous podcast guest. He has a lot of his clients do a hair tissue mineral analysis and finds that mineral repletion is really good. And, there's a few brands that are pretty high in minerals. Mountain Valley is one. Pellegrino is good. Magnesia and Gerolsteiner are also pretty darn good for minerals from bottled water. And, of course, the glass version is clutch. But, before we took our potty break and your water break, you were talking about the brain tap. So, you got the beach, with the grounding and earthing, you got the cold, you got the BrainTap, what else is part of your wellness lounge protocol?

Once I kind of prepare my central nervous system for the day and for the cold tub, I will jump in the cold tub. And, I actually got this really cool red light device. I actually have it over here if you want to check it out. I'm going to go grab it really fast.

Yeah, let's see it. By the way, for those of you watching the video, again, it's going to be BenGreenfieldLife.com/ThorPodcast. All right, let's see what this is, man.

Yeah. So yesterday, I mean, I just got this in the mail and I think I found that the company through— I just was Googling one day the truth about juve or something like that and I came across this company called GetChroma and they have this device called Ironforge. And after I cold plunged yesterday, I came up to my living room just butt-ass naked and shined this all over my body. And, this thing packs a serious punch. It is 90-second treatments. And, if you hold it over one body part or limb for too long, it gets pretty hot.

Yeah. That's one of the medical— it's a medical device LED red light laser. So, that's unlike the Joovv or the Kineon or some of these full-body panels or spot treatment panels. That's one where it's literally for some pretty intense inflammation or joint recovery. And, it's also more dangerous, I guess, like you were talking about. It'll heat up tissue pretty quickly. It is an actual pretty powerful laser in that thing. Ben Greenfield: Yeah.

I guess I should backtrack a little bit of the— I think all these recovery modalities are all fine and dandy, but they're really nothing if you don't get quality sleep. So, I think the best way to prepare for the next day is the previous night. And, I don't really take a whole lot of sleeping supplements. Normally, around when the sun goes down, I put my blue light blockers on. I mean, I have been known to watch a little bit of TV, but I still don't really have any issues, fall asleep pretty naturally. So, I put my blue light blockers on, take some magnesium glycinate or threonate, and I make these tart cherry juice limeades. I use Mountain Valley sparkling, good organic in the glass, tart cherry juice, and some fresh-squeezed lime, and it is unbelievable.

And tart cherry is great for sleep. That's like kiwi as a melatonin precursor. I kind of have a similar thing. I do coconut water and tart cherry and gelatin, and sometimes I'll put a little reishi or magnesium, or I've even put some of that Quicksilver Lipocalm stuff, which is a bunch of GABA inhibitory neurotransmitter precursors. And, I stir all that together in a pot over the stove and then pour it into little molds. I just have these little Reese's peanut butter size cup molds that I got on Amazon and then refrigerate that. And, I'll just pop a couple of those gummies before I go to sleep at night. And, they're great for sleep and considering you pay like $30-plus for a little jar of sleep gummies and you can make them at home with that. It's a pretty good recipe. But yeah, for anybody who's not turned on to the tart cherry thing, there's a lot of good research behind that for sleep.

Yeah. Sometimes I will have some bone broth too before bed. I've heard that glycine helps with sleep as well. I would sometimes take some L-theanine, but I already live a different world in my dreams as it is. I don't need to have any crazier dreams because they are quite vivid. But, I guess that's good sleep feedback because it tells me that I'm in REM sleep. I don't know, you might be able to better answer that one.

So, you're obviously not doing cannabis before sleep because that shuts down dream cycles. Have you always been a crazy dreamer?

For the most part, yeah. But, I don't really have nightmares now.

Yeah, yeah. You're just doing a lot of emotional processing and memory consolidation when you sleep if you dream more. Did you know that GPT can now do dream interpretation. That's actually really popular. People go to ChatGPT and type in their dream and get interpretation from it because GPT has basically read, if you want to call it that, thousands of dream interpretation books.

I read an article that ChatGPT or whatever it's called had predicted that in however many years the whole world was going to be vegan.

Yeah, it might be attempting some kind of a backend manifestation there with the veganism thing. The thing is though, that actually reminded me when I was talking about books, you read a lot of books. Don't you have a book club or something like that?

Yeah. So, during COVID I was trying to do something healthy and try to just get people involved. And, I was always a pretty good student, but getting straight A's and whatnot, that's kind of easy. That's just rope memorization. And, I didn't really learn a whole lot of problem-solving skills or emotional intelligence when I was in school. So, it was easy during COVID to start a book club. Actually, my first one was "What Doesn't Kill Us" by Scott Carney. And, I did it as a collab with Adrian at Morozko. And then, every month I was picking a different book. But now, it was easy during COVID because I was rehabbing and I wasn't have to worry about performance. But then, last year when I was with the Angels, it was more one book every 2 months. And then, it was hard to really do it this year with the Dodgers. I tried to pick different themes and apply it to different fan bases because I like books read by James Nestor or "Biology of Belief" or "A New Earth" by Eckhart Tolle. And, some people just don't. There's a small group of people that I feel like like those sorts of books. So, I try to diversify a little bit. And, it was just hard with the Dodgers this year because people don't really care about what you're doing outside of the field if you're not performing very well. So, I'd like to pick it back up. I think there's just a huge benefit to reading and stepping in the mind of another human being and just trying to gain some sort of emotional intelligence. And, I just genuinely enjoy it.

Ben Greenfield: Have you read Morgan Housel? Morgan Housel wrote "The Psychology of Money." Have you read his new book?

I've never actually heard of him.

Okay. And, you know what, this is embarrassing, I've been binging his new book and I don't remember the name of it. It's Morgan Housel's new book, the same guy who wrote "The Psychology of Money." That one's a fantastic read. That's my bedside read right now.

But, you like reading boring books though before you go to bed, right?

Yeah. I mean, I like reading books that don't make me think about my business or deep science and physiology that just gets my brain churning. So, I'll read things like self-improvement books that I wouldn't say are boring, they just take me outside the zone that I've been in all day long when it comes to work. So, spiritual books like devotionals or, for example, one I'm reading right now is "Practicing the Presence of Jesus" by Joni Eareckson Tada. And then, this new book by Morgan Housel. Those are all the type of books that are on my bedside. And then, I bring my sons through a new book. We kind of have our own father-son book club. So, we do a new book about every 2 weeks and have pre-dinner time discussions about whatever we've been reading. So right now, we're reading a book about irrational human psychology and logical fallacies. And then, after that, we're moving on to a business book called "What the CEO Wants You to Know." And I try to, with them, generally bounce between rhetoric, body language, self-improvement, finances, a lot of practical in-the-streets knowledge that will make them better students or better future husbands or businessmen. And so, we do a lot of reading at our house. We kind of systematize it in terms of having our own little inside-the-house book club. And then, I typically read an additional usually around 2 to 3 books a week right now.

That's impressive. I'm like maybe one a month right now. The most recent books I've read, I really just devoured "10% Happier" by Dan Harris. I thought that was an amazing meditation book. "Think Again" by Ryan Grant, might be Adam Grant.

I think it might be.

Actually, I don't even know who Ryan Grant is. And, I'm still trying to get through "Deep Nutrition" and I just got over, I'm 350 pages deep and it's just now finishing the— okay, we get it, hydrogenated vegetable oil is bad and now we're on to processed sugar.

Ben Greenfield: One of those books that can be summed up pretty easily. If you want to learn how to read books faster, and he just came out with the second edition of this book that covers AI and smart drugs as well, you should check out Jim Kwik's book, Limitless. Yeah.

I've read that. Yeah, I've tried that method, but sometimes I just like to slow it down a little bit. I know your mind can read faster than you can actually speak, but I mean, that's how we were taught in school and that's what was ingrained in our head for the longest time. So, it's just hard to break through that. And, as far as the book club goes, it is a It's got Noah's Book Club as the title, but I'm still trying to figure out what it actually is. There's nowhere for fans to really engage. It was just I would post something on my personal social media. I would post different chapter updates on my stories. And then, at the end of the month, I would do a Q&A with whoever recommended the book to me because I'm not really great at posting things. Like that myself. There have been a couple times where I've done it on my own but it was a different kind of production, but we made it work.

Yeah.

You just call it either Lithorator or Literathor. It can be your book club title.

I like that. You got to recommend a book for me so I can have you on.

Yeah, Literathor. So, I know that a lot of people were probably interested in hearing what the biohacked MLB pitcher does. And, I'm curious besides that cold laser LED device that you held up if there's any other kind of weird fringe or lesser-known or extremely effective modalities that you find pretty critical in your day-to-day.

So, next to my cold plunge in the garage, I have a barrel sauna. I crank that bad boy up to 230 if I wanted to. I've owned two different kinds of infrared saunas. I've sold them both just because I was kind of brainwashed in the fact that both Clearlight and Sunlitten, I guess, import their wood from outside of the United States, so they need to treat it with chemicals. So, the whole off-gassing process, I don't know how valid that statement actually is, but that was just what I've been told by people that are smarter than I am.

Ben Greenfield: By the way, because I know people are going to ask, I have not heard that. I will, however, after this podcast, dig into that. So, go to the shownotes if you have your own information to share on that, VOCs in wood from imported wood and infrared saunas. Yeah, leave your thoughts in the shownotes if you know much about that. You just gave me something to research, Noah, so thanks.

Yeah. Do you know Robby Besner from Therasage?

I know who that is, yeah.

So, he was the one that told me about that. And so, I have an infrared sauna. Of his, the little portable tents. Those things are awesome. Just because I've been living like a nomad for the last 4 years, it's getting kind of pricey to be traveling from Florida to Arizona to California to back to California with my Morozko and my barrel sauna. I have a hyperbaric in my guest room as well. I have my fancy BFR unit right here as well, the MAD-UP Pro. They're based out of France. I have KAATSUs as well, but this is like you can't untether yourself from it. So, the other day, the way I used it, I did it on my legs, did bilateral heels elevated squats. And, the protocol for BFR usage is you do 1 set of 30 and then followed by 3 sets of 15. And, it's very difficult to walk after that. Yeah. So, I incorporated any moment or opportunity that I can.

Do you do the arms and the legs at the same time?

This just has 2 ports. So, a lot of the other popular ones that are really expensive is This one is about $6K and then there's another one called by Owens Recovery Sciences that they actually use a built-in Doppler. Those are about $5K, but that's only per limb. So, if you wanted to do two limbs at the same time, you'd have to fork over $10,000. Oh, wow. But this has two ports in it. So, I've only done legs all at once or arms. All at once. But, when I do it with my arm, it's mainly for arm care stuff. So, it's either I go do manual resisted stuff with a physical therapist or a trainer, a lot of love crushing forearms. I mean, I do basically any exercise I want with it and just to add a little bit more bang for my buck and just to get some amazing growth hormone pumping through my veins.

Yeah. Yeah. Why do you think that more of these modalities aren't in the average training room like at a pro sports club? I mean, is it just kind of old-school thinking? And, I ask because, by the way, a lot of the locker rooms I've been in, it's all endocrine-disrupting chemicals besides a few clubs, pretty old-school barbell, kettlebells. There's nothing wrong with a lot of these standard training and lifting and recovery modalities, but it seems like there's a lot left behind. At least, that's my perception. I could be wrong.

Ben Greenfield: Oh, most definitely. I am to the point right now to where we have our clubhouse managers and part of their jobs is to do our laundry amongst other things. And, the soaps and detergents and whatever that they're using are just extremely toxic. So, I'm to the point right now where I just want to take my own laundry home and do it my own detergent that's non-toxic. And then, you go into the bathroom or the showers and it's just Irish Spring. I guess Irish Spring is all right, I guess, but there's other soaps and shampoos and conditioners full of phthalates, parabens, sulfates.

Yeah. It's like Gillette, Old Spice, just all the standards. And then, what about— you were showing the BFR device, for example, or the light. And I know some athletic training rooms do have laser and LED, but is it just, again, just old-school thinking that a lot of these biohacking technologies for recovery or fitness just haven't seemed to penetrate the industry that well?

It depends on the team. I've been with 5 Major League teams now, 6 organizations, and mostly every training room has a few BFR, the fancy BFR units. When I was with the Dodgers, they had a beamer for a little bit, but it wasn't theirs. They also had this neurofeedback chair that I absolutely loved and I was the only one that used it. It was this lawn chair that you would sit in and it would vibrate the hell out of you, different frequencies, and you'd wear headphones for different binaural beats.

Was that the Shiftwave? Shiftwave chair?

I'm not familiar with what it was called, but then you'd wear a little pulsar oximeter and it would measure, it would give you real-time before and after HRV measurements.

Ben Greenfield: The one that you're talking about, if it is the Shiftwave, it tracks your heart rate and your breath rate and your HRV in real time and adjusts your breath cues and the vibration of the chair and everything during the session and walks you through how to breathe and how to relax and how long to exhale. Dr. John Laurent at Mitozen Medical Clinic in Florida, he has one. It's crazy. I actually really want to get one. It is almost like you're on some kind of a weird trip and you feel on top of the world when you finish one of those recovery-wise.

I think they actually have a setting that's trip or something like that. But yeah, I mean, I love that thing. I think I was the only one that ever really used it. And of course, it wasn't theirs, so the company took it back after I don't know how long. It just kind of depends on the organization and their budget, I guess. Some teams have really immaculate space and weight rooms and other teams just kind of cheap owners, I guess, and don't— and then kind of leave that kind of responsibility on the individual players. Like, "Oh, you're making this amount of money, like you need it, you can get it yourself." Yeah. I did have a Pulse PEMF bed that I rented for quite a bit last year. And, the place that I'm doing my physical therapy at, they have one as well. And, I freaking love that thing. I think second to sleep is nutrition. I think my favorite modality or resource that I have is my personal chef. She's amazing and super knowledgeable about health and wellness and nutrition and food. Everything's grass-fed, grass-finished, cooked in tallow or butter. She's really into cooking seasonally and going to the farmer's market. So, she's been doing a lot of different squashes and pumpkin.

Ben Greenfield: Amazing. Yeah. You ever heard of Methodology? Because they're a— the reason I bring them up is they're a meal delivery service and I've tried out a ton for different clients. And, they're pretty high-end. I mean, I think they're like, I don't know, maybe $400 a week or something like that. So, it's obviously a little bit of a price point, but it's your breakfast, your lunches, your dinners, your snacks, your juices, but it's super high-quality, seed oil-free, really high-end stuff. That one's called Methodology. That was the recent meal planning service that I've been recommending to more of my, I call it VIP exec clients who don't want a personal chef, don't have the time to cook but want their meals delivered. That one's pretty impressive.

Ben Greenfield: I'll definitely have to check that out. I've been working on and off with this nutrition scientist named Chris Talley based in El Segundo here, and he will do this full very comprehensive blood analysis with— I mean, it takes an hour and a half to go over all this with him. And then, if you want, he has a kitchen in El Segundo and he'll ship nationwide and everything is exactly tailored to your needs. And, it's kind of funny because a couple years ago, I had an immune response to dairy. And, when I recently did some blood work with him, but at that time, I didn't even know what raw dairy was. But then, I did some blood work with him and recently, It's cured. Now, my only allergy is I have shrimp and lobster.

Yeah, that's not uncommon. What's the guy's name again? Chris Talley. Okay.

I think it's Precision Food Works is his company.

Okay, cool. I'll put that in the shownotes.

Full disclaimer, all these recovery hacks and whatnot, my C-reactive protein for some reason has been a little high. So, I'm trying to just address that and doing a lot more blood work than what I normally have in the past and just really taking a deep dive and look under the hood.

Yeah. Random question about that. Do you know what your methylation genetics are? If you're a poor methylator or anything like that, have you ever done DNA testing?

Mm-hmm. I haven't done any of that.

The reason I ask is some people who are poor methylators, if they have sources of folic acid in their diet. And, folic acid, you'll find it in a lot of energy drinks, you'll find it in a lot of supplements, multivitamins, different enriched products like flours and cereals, which it doesn't sound like you're doing a lot of. But, what happens if you're a poor methylator, a lot of the folic acid can cause a little bit of an inflammatory reaction like a buildup of homocysteine and also sometimes a buildup of CRP, in the body. And so, that might be one thing to look into because a lot of people just have little bits here and there of dietary folic acid. And, if they're poor methylators, it can kind of screw them over from an inflammatory standpoint.

Is folic acid the same as folate?

Natural folate like methyltetrahydrofolate is 20 times more expensive to use as a nutritional ingredient for methyl groups in supplements or to fortify foods. So, most people don't do it because they just don't get good margins on their product. So, there's even some very popular energy drinks out there and supplements that if you look at the label have folic acid in them, which I don't think is generally that good, but especially if you're a poor methylator, you should avoid it. And, the organ meats that you're consuming, those are good sources of natural folate. But, if you have high CRP, I'm not saying that's what it is, but You always check it out. You just do a— get a gene test from SelfDecode or StrateGene or the DNA company or one of these sources and just see what your methylation genetics are.

Ben Greenfield: There was at one point where I was diagnosed with hereditary hemochromatosis. And, every team that I've been with, I've asked the team physician to monitor it and they've come back to me like, "Oh, no, you're fine." So, there's a certain level of distrust there. So, I'll get some answers here pretty soon.

Ben Greenfield: Yeah, because obviously as you know, in people who train a lot, CRP can also just be elevated as a relic of training, in which case usually you'd want to look at all your inflammatory markers like homocysteine and interleukins and get a full inflammatory panel from DirectLabs, for example. And then, you could see if you're inflamed because you're really inflamed or if CRP is just one element that's up just because you might have trained hard in the couple of days prior to the test.

Yeah, it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense because I feel great and I feel like all my practices are really dialed in. So, there's that. I guess another, on a different note, my other hack I guess you could say is I will dabble with intermittent fasting or just Like, on Sunday, I'm traveling or tomorrow I'm traveling and I'm going to fast all day because on Tuesday, I'm going to work with this functional medicine doctor in Dallas. His name is Dr. Joe Cleaver and he's going to do a VSELs treatment on me.

Ben Greenfield: Oh, yeah. Those are pretty epic, the very small embryonic-like stem cells. They're extremely potent in terms of their ability to be able to help with tissue and joint recovery. And, I don't know if you knew this, Noah, but there's one doctor, Dr. Todd, he's out of San Diego. He's got a hard-to-pronounce name. It's like Ovocytose or something like that, but he activates the V-cells with special laser lights that allow the V-cells to go to the part of the body where they're needed most. And actually, Harry Adelson who you mentioned, when you do the full-body stem cell makeover with him, I believe he uses something very similar to Dr. Todd's protocol. With lights and B-cells.

Well, I was going to do Dr. Harry's program again, but now he just does umbilical exosomes. And, I think that's got to— but he did that. I like the cocktail that he uses, the bone marrow, the fat, B-cells, and exosomes. I don't want just exosomes, I just want stuff that comes from me.

The nice part about the new one that he does, you recover way faster, but some people do like to use the the bone marrow aspirate, so to speak. Another guy that's doing really interesting work in stem cells is Dr. Adeel Khan. I interviewed him and he's also doing things like follistatin gene therapy and Klotho gene therapy. And, he's got some really interesting stem cell protocols as well. He has a certain type of stem cell that he's developed. It's not V-cells, it's a little different. I think they're called VESCs or something like that, but he's got a clinic down in Cabo. And, I might go down there in February to do some treatments with him. And, we're also doing a big conference in Austin in February called Unlock Longevity where we're going to be talking about a lot of that stuff. But, his name is Dr. Khan, K-A-H-N. And, I did an interview with him where he talked about a lot of this stuff. I'll link to it in the shownotes, but it was super interesting. He's a good guy to look into also.

And, as I'm flying on Sunday, I will be I forgot about your advice of putting all your EMF Defender— no, that's No Choice products in your carry-on because there was one time where I was wearing the No Choice underwear and I went through the scan. They had to scan me 3 or 4 times and I'm like, "Oh, shit. I'm wearing EMF-protecting underwear." And, I'm surprised they didn't try to tackle me then and there because the TSA agent's like, "What the hell is this guy talking about?" My crotch region was essentially invisible to the machine. So, I just pleased that I didn't have to go through a full-body cavity search to make it through security.

And for people listening, the No Choice is a full-body EMF blocking suit. So, you go through a scanner and you look like a ghost and they freak out. So, I always have it in my backpack and I'll even take it out of my backpack and put it in a little plastic bin so it doesn't cover up stuff in my backpack. And then, as soon as I walk through security, that's when I put on the EMF blocking gear. The sexy wraparound Faraday cage.

Do you have the hoodie that goes all the way up and you have the eyelids?

I do that on international flights, dude. It's nuts. You literally feel like you're inside this protected cave that nobody can get at.

And, I will probably be reinforcing myself with a little bit of ketone esters as well as I fly to help protect myself with some potential radiation from flying.

Yeah, that's fantastic. Ketone esters, my stack's ketone esters, hydrogen tablets, magnesium, and some kind of antioxidant like C60, for example, is really good. And then, I do the EMF blocking gear like the No Choice, the full body suit. And then, typically, if it's a long-haul flight, I'll do an NAD patch and I'll also, if it's a long flight, do super high-dose melatonin. For the anti-inflammatory benefits like the sublingual trochees from Mitozen or even the suppository from Mitozen. So, you're getting 300 milligrams of melatonin, which is one of the most potent anti-inflammatories you can have in your body during the whole flight. And, I know a couple people who also use for a similar anti-inflammatory effect even though I don't do this as much ozone oil capsules or methylene blue. And the reason I don't like those is they kind of wake you up. They're super excitatory and I like to sleep on the airplane. So, I like to use melatonin as the big guns for inflammation.

You use the melatonin suppositories from Dr. John Lieurance or the dissolvable ones in your mouth?

Yeah, it depends. For a super long-haul flight, the suppositories are fine because you're just kind of like— if I'm flying, and by long-haul, I mean 8+ hours and I try to fly business if I can so I'm able to lay down on a lounging chair. If you're seated for a long period of time with the suppository up your butt, sometimes stuff can go wrong. But, if I'm laying down, I'll do the suppository and then otherwise, they've got sublingual troches. They call it the Sandman Bar and you just put a little bit under your tongue and those are really good too. There's another new company called Troscriptions and they've got one called Tro Zzz. It's not melatonin, it's GABA. And, that stuff's pretty amazing too just for the sleeping component. So yeah, there's quite a bit in my airplane bag. But man, I love being able to feel like a million bucks when I walk off the plane and just feel like I don't have to go curl up in my hotel room and pass out for a couple hours.

Oh, one thing I was going to mention as well. Dr. Jay, he used to be your co-host on the show, right?

Jay Wiles. Yeah. The other guy I was talking about was John Laurance, but Dr.

Jay Wiles, On a separate note, I've talked to him on and off for the last 2 years or so. I've done some Hanyu stuff with him for the HRV measuring. And, he has coming up with— he offered me to go out to South Carolina and do this whole brain mapping kind of assessment just to see— I mean, just the last couple years have been kind of rough on my central nervous system. So, to see which regions of the brain are active or too active or not functioning very highly at all. So, I'm just really taking a deep dive and making sure that no stone is unturned.

Ben Greenfield: That's a super valuable test. As a matter of fact, it can even show indication of mold, mycotoxin like Lyme or Epstein-Barr co-infections along with areas of the brain that could be fixed. With neurofeedback. So yeah, I've probably done a brain map every year for the past 7 years. My last couple were with a company called Jyzen in Mill Valley, California, but then Peak Brain in LA does them. Dr. Jay Wiles, like you mentioned, shout out to Dr. Jay, he does them. But yeah, they're super beneficial. I think more people should know about them because they're not super expensive and you get a lot of really interesting data about your brain. But anyways, is there any other cool things you want to share with folks just in the few minutes we have left here?

Oh, sensory deprivation tanks, float tanks. Love me a good float tank. Sitting in the magnesium salt for an hour, there's so many different benefits between absorbing the magnesium through your skin and just— it's in the title itself, the sensory deprivation. So, And, you just get an hour to float and kind of lose your mind a little bit, but that's the beauty in it.

And, is that ketamine-fueled or non-ketamine-fueled?

Non-ketamine-fueled. I've never tried that kind of therapy, but it's definitely interesting for sure.

Yeah. A lot of people like that. It's like the turkey and cranberries with the isolation tank. I personally don't like to feel like I'm high in a dark chamber. Chamber filled with water, but some people do. That's your thing. Well, Noah, this is super interesting. I'm going to link to the GQ article. I'm going to link to all your socials even though I know you're never on them apparently. And, I'll hunt down some of this stuff like the LED light and the BFR, and I'll link to a lot of this stuff in the shownotes for people who want to take a deeper dive. But dude, what a fascinating approach you have to fitness and recovery. So, I appreciate you coming on. Hopefully, people can follow you and learn a little bit more about what you do.

Oh, thank you, Ben. Thank you for everything that you do and for helping me on this path.

Word, man. My pleasure. And folks, BenGreenfieldLife.com/ThorPodcast, T-H-O-R Podcast, is where you can leave your comments, your questions, your show notes, your feedback about anything. So, I'd love to see you pipe in. I read all of those. Leave the show review. Wherever you're listening in. Until next time, I'm Ben Greenfield with Noah Syndergaard. Have an amazing week.

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