Quantum Biology, Breaking Performance Records, Reversing Alzheimers, Ozone Suppositories, Frog Poison & More With Crazy Mad Scientist, Biohacker & Inventor Ian Mitchell.

My name is Ben Greenfield, and on this episode of the Ben Greenfield Life.

Podcast, Life is more like a kind of a choose your own adventure novel where you have set exit points. If you're so worried about what's to come, you can never actually be where you are. So I thought non addictive opioid, that would help a lot of people. So I set out to crack that egg.

Did you?

Yes, I did.

Tell me more.

Nothing changed. You didn't, you didn't move and I just explained. Well, yeah, that's because I was working on surrender. So, you know, as part of surrendering, you truly surrender everything. All of the sensations, what's going through.

Your mind when you do.

Faith, family, fitness, health, performance, nutrition, longevity, ancestral living, biohacking, and a whole lot more. Welcome to the show.

Oh, yeah, here we are. Beautiful, beautiful stroll outside the Greenfield home. Ian Mitchell.

What's up, man?

How's it going, Ben?

Pretty good.

So can't complain in this, right?

No. Ian and I just finished punishing our liver smoothies and we're now walking down this old country road back behind my house. A little windy, I'll tell you. Guys, listening in today we got some. What do they call the blustery day? It's a blustery day, as Winnie the Pooh would say. So, Ian, how are you feeling after drinking pure raw liver?

Dude, that is. I've got to say, that was the most nutrient dense food I have arguably ever consumed.

Okay, so if you're listening, I made one of my signature liver smoothies. And this is the. I've said this before on a podcast. I'll take liver and I soak it in buttermilk or kefir or lemon juice for about a day or so. They'll rinse it off and blend it and make just like liver puree, pour that into molds. And so I've got these little frozen raw liver molds. And then so like this morning, I took about 10 of those little molds and dropped them in the. Dropped them in the smoothie bowl. Yeah, like cute little molds, cute little livers. And then I added bone broth. I actually sometimes like to put something like a protein powder in there. And so this morning I used the A2 toddler milk formula from our friends at Serenity Foods. So we literally had baby food and liver. There was a little bit of monk fruit, a little bit of monk fruit in there, a little bit of stevia, and then. And then we blended all that up with some creatine with some of this stuff called called, called Neural rx, which Ian will talk to you about later on. It's like this stuff that's crazy, crazy good brain food. I mean literally, it's like reversing Alzheimer's, doing all sorts of crazy stuff. And so we put some of his stuff in there and then.

And then we topped it with, with bee pollen and gluten free granola and cacao nibs. Boom.

Unbelievable. Pretty truly, truly delicious actually. And that is not hyperbole, it's just really, really delicious. Oddly, I was thinking, man, this may kill me, but it was great.

And then, then tonight, what I did yesterday was I took a bunch of these big old grass fed grass finished beef briskets and soaked them in apple cider vinegar and organic wine and bone broth with cinnamon and cacao oregano, salt and black pepper. And so, so those soaked for about 24 hours, marinated and then I put them on the smoker this morning at about 6am and they'll smoke at about 165 on the Traeger till about 3pm this afternoon. And then I'll wrap them in butcher paper and cover them in juices and suet beef suet which is like this fat. So this fat will drip over these things for the next three hours and then I'll pull them and I'll wrap them in towels and put them in a cooler. And then at about 7pm tonight I'll pull it and slice it against the grain and we're going to have like Texas style brisket. This is.

Yeah, this is a meat. A palooza.

Yeah. Yeah. Yep. So anyways though, but, but that's, that's really not the topic of today's podcast. It's not meat and liver, although actually pretty interesting. I am for you to share because you, you were on the show and for those of you who, who want to access the show notes, I'll link to the show I did with Ian who visited Spokane like two and a half years ago. And we did a show all about this, this, this C60, this stuff called Buckminster Foliary and how it works for like hair growth and anti cancer and all the crazy stuff that C60 can do. And, and so I'll link to that previous podcast if you go to the show notes@bengreenfieldfitness.com Wizardscience BenGreenfulFitness.com Wizardscience because that's the name of Ian's company. And so he's just been up to so many interesting things. He's a crazy, crazy madman inventor the genius mastermind behind a lot of the different supplements and products you see out there. Like, Ian's kind of like responsible behind the scenes for helping out with this stuff. This is what he does. He's got a crazy inventor lab in Oklahoma. And so anyways, so Ian's been up to a bunch, so I figured, you know what, I had to have him back out. And we had a jam for a while and talk about the latest and the greatest in the realm of nutritional science and beyond, including Ian. This stuff called biochar you were telling me about last night. And I found this absolutely intriguing. Tell me about biochar.

Okay, so it's kind of interesting. So not to be confused with Biocharged, which is a company that I work with that develops supplements, or the Biocharger. Or the Biocharger, which is a very cool Tesla based device that we all, I think, kind of play with and use because it's actually very brilliant. So biochar is a type of carbon that you make in a low, low oxygen environment. So it's a low oxygen pyrolysis and you basically, you put in some sort of biomass which could be typically, I use things that are cellulostic, so you know, like wood fiber, cardboard, bushes, food waste, stuff like that, anything that has a cellulose content. And then you basically you reduce the oxygen in the environment and you crank up the heat to say in the case of what I'm doing, about 1500 degrees and you reduce it and forms the stabilized type of carbon. And depending on how you play it, you can get very small pores or larger pores. So it's micromesoposity, depending on the volume.

Of the super concentrating part.

Yeah. So when you look at it, the first thing that it can be used for that's great is a soil amendment. Like we're, nobody will see this, but we're walking next to this big field right now and you know, the, the difference between dirt and soil is dirt is basically dead, doesn't have any nutrients. And you know, NPK is nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium. That's kind of what makes most foods grow and grow in a healthy.

That's typically how, how dirt is fertilized in the U.S. yeah.

And so biochar is this kind of amazing thing. When you use it as a soil amendment and you spread it on the soil, if you have food waste and things like that mixed with, mixed with it, it'll attach to the, to the nutrients in the pores. And it does kind of a time release on the, on the nutrients going out into the crops. And if you look and we've actually done this side by side, if you look at something fertilized, the traditional method versus fertilized with biochar, the side that has the biochar is beautiful. Like the crop yields are higher. It's just kind of this amazing substance.

So it's basically like a carbon, but it's taking all the nutrients and somehow siphoning those into the actual plants.

Yeah. So it's kind of like a time release. It's almost like a delayed release nutrient base. So it's releases everything in a more conducive fashion for plant cycling. So if you think about, you know, if, if you walked into a restaurant and somebody say, oh, actually this morning. Right. Let's say you gave me four gallons of liver smoothie. Right. Might be the best do it in the world.

That tomorrow morning sounds like a party.

Yeah, Liver smoothie breakfast. So I wouldn't be able to consume it. Right. And that's kind of the way that we fertilize things, you know, very frequently in agriculture and on a mass scale is we just put all the fertilizer out and then the first heavy rain that comes by, it's gone.

Okay.

So if you can stabilize it in something that does a delayed time release, it's kind of like going into your kitchen and having a cup of smoothie every day for a month, as opposed to you putting four gallons of smoothie on the table and going, have at it.

And so you can just churn out this biochar in your lab and ship it out to farmers or whatever.

No, we actually have been. So my lab looks like kind of the ultimate MAD sciences playground. So I've got a huge component of it that's, you know, fabrication shops and some biochem and some physics and all kinds of craziness there. But we're. We're actually developing a new method. What's actually developed, but we're building the prototypes right now so that we can produce this and get it out to people in scale. Because it's a brilliant substance. The problem is just worldwide. There's not really enough of it.

That's so. So basically, if someone got biochar, let's say you had it for your garden, would you just like spread it and mix it into the soil?

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's great. I mean, you can buy it online. I mean, I have a ton of it at the lab that I just found sources online. Just nobody's doing it at scale, but it's okay.

So that's the issue is, it is biochar exists as a thing, so I thought I'd heard about it before you were telling me about it yesterday, but it's not something that. That can be produced in mass on scale right now.

No, not at the kind of scale that it needs. I mean, my take, and the guys I work with, we're, you know, no, no joke. We're literally out trying to, you know, help and save the world as best we can. And the. The crux of that sometimes means we have to do things at a large scale. And if you find something that's basically a panacea, but nobody's really going to have access to it, it's. It really doesn't help. It's the same reason, like with carbon 60, that I'm refining the production methods on that, because it's brilliant. It does all these amazing things, but the cost basis is so high to actually get the raw materials that it's not going to be possible for the average consumer.

Yeah, yeah. And so this carbon 60 stuff, you know, we did a podcast about it, but in terms of what it actually is, I mean, I know it's such a. It's such a feature, part of a lot of the stuff you produce out of your labs, out of Wizard Sciences, that we should probably, just for people who didn't listen to that other podcast, explain what this actual, like, carbon molecule is. Because you were working with this form of carbon before you were working with biochar, right?

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. So, yeah. You're like a factory with carbon.

I am, man. I play with graphitic nanofibers and graphene and all kinds of stuff.

A lot of the research I do does just come back to carbon. So Wizard Sciences is kind of the. The crux and the epicenter of all things carbon 60. So what we're trying to do there is figure out big problems, you know, like Alzheimer's, you know, physical ailments, arthritis, autoimmune conditions. Not that those are popping up everywhere.

And it's different. Wizard Sciences is more like the consumable supplement type of things that people would use versus this biochar. That's a different company.

Yeah, totally different company. Okay. Yeah.

Biochar was just like a different way to play with carbon.

Yeah. So it's a. It's a way to get it out into mass agriculture so we can ship the environment, you know, because it also, as water goes through it, it purifies the water it detoxifies. Think of it almost if instead of putting, you know, Glyphosate or something. That's just a really bad, broad spectrum, you know, toxin on soil. If you put something out that actually was like an activated charcoal filter, you know, that when the rain hits, instead of leaching things into the water system that are really harmful, you're. You're purifying the water from the air so that if there's anything coming down, it stratifies out, just like you'd run it in a column in a lab. Separate out the good stuff from the bad and let it roll.

Oh, and by the way, because I want to get back to C60, but I forgot this, this biochar thing. Is this related to that black concrete that you're showing me?

Yeah, yeah, actually it is. It's one of the.

Okay, so explain to you what this black concrete is, because it's pretty sexy.

It actually, it is sexy. It looks just like onyx. So in order to reduce the burden of some of the components in concrete on the environment, because concrete is. If it were a country, it would be the third largest offender in the world in terms of greenhouse gases. So China would be number one, the U.S. would be number two, and then concrete, the Republic of Concrete, would be three. And so the idea was, I was working with a friend of mine, Bobby Dillard, and we were trying to figure out things that would kind of move the needle, and this was one of them. So we had originally started looking at knocking out the greenhouse gas effects and making carbon neutral concrete. So I tried it, hammered it out, literally just took a couple weeks. No big deal, very easy. So then I thought, well, I could probably do better, you know, and I didn't know if I could or not. But then I. I ramped up everything and I started figuring out some kind of odd combinatory things and was able to get concrete that performed more effectively than, you know, most. Most standard. You know, there's like six AX mixes out there, which is just kind of, in concrete parlance, so, you know, like the strength based on how much Portland spin is actually in it. So once we got it up to that threshold, the idea was to basically see how carbon negative I can make it. So it ended up being negative 24%. So the 8% that would be produced would then drop another 24 negative. So all in all, if you could literally get everybody to shift to this, not that that is going to happen, but if they did, a third of the greenhouse gases would go away overnight.

Because there's concrete that literally sequesters carbon.

Yeah. And the concrete is the most Widely used building material in the world. So if, if everybody shifted to this and it's. Honestly, it's an easy method to do from the standpoint of the people preparing the concrete, because that was one of the other things I thought through is if it's some really, you know, kind of strange arcane process with all these different components. It's very difficult to do in this rigorous process. People aren't going to do it.

Yeah.

So from the standpoint of the guys actually batching and mixing, it's identical. From the standpoint of the guys laying the concrete, identical to save the fact that it looks like black onyx.

Yeah, yeah. No, it's. It's pretty cool looking. By the way, I've got two commercial real estate guys coming to our brisket party tonight, so I'll definitely want you to fill them in on this black concrete because it really. It really is cool. I'm all. I'm. I'm into these building materials like I was telling you. For this place I'm building in Idaho. I'm looking into Moonwood, which is naturally. It naturally blocks 5G and EMF, naturally mold resistant, naturally fire resistant, great insulatory material. It's called Moonwood. A lot of people don't know about it, but is it actually using it? It's not actually grown on the moon properties. I think they actually import something from Japan anyways. Yeah, it's called, called Moonwood. So because this new build that I'm doing down in Idaho, you know, I'm doing a full biogeometry analysis of. Of the land for everything from geopathic stressors to where the, you know, where the bedrooms and the beds are placed to. To the, you know, building materials. All low voc, all metal shielded ethernet cables and the. In the home, like same way I did my home here in Spokane that I unfortunately and sadly as we were talking about, I'm probably going to sell or turn into a retreat center. But this place in Idaho, I was thinking, might also be a cool spot to. To try some of that black concrete on, so.

Well, I got to tell you, man, I. I'm going to hazard a guess based on the profile that you just rattled off. I bet there's a high concentration of some sort of free carbon in there.

Because in the Moonwood.

In the Moonwood, Yeah. I don't know if it's imported from Japan. My guess would be that there's some sort of soil that's high in an ash concentration or something like that, because the properties that you just said usually what elicits that kind of response in a media of some sort, especially something cellulastic.

Yeah.

Is if you combine some sort of, you know, EMF break, and biochar actually works famously well for that.

Really?

Yeah.

Interesting. Could you. Could you put biochar into building materials that basically black concrete is.

Yeah, you can. And we are. Yeah. Huh. There's actually.

You could technically have a home, like, kind of built out of biochar. Yeah.

Yeah. You can go to the International Biochar Institute page. It's a good repository of information. There's a ton of stuff there.

Wow. Wow. This is super cool. Okay, so I want to talk about some of these products that you're making with Wizard Sciences. And I didn't. Totally didn't tell you this, and this. This is going to maybe. Maybe not take you by surprise, but I put one of your products up my ass this morning.

All right.

Yeah. Yeah. So it's. This. Is this stuff that's basically. It's a. It's an ozone capsule. It's called. What's called Resistor.

Oh, okay.

Yeah. Charge resistor. Okay. So, yeah, you call it biocharge resistor. This is the other form of the biochar. Talk about. And. And you said to me. And I thought, you know what? I sometimes do, like, rectal insufflation of ozone, which is great. It's like the fastest way to get ozone in your bloodstream without spending a ton of money going to some doctor, you know, to do, like an ozone iv.

That's literally why I need it.

And then orally, because I used to have sibo. And this is one of the ways I got rid of it was I would drink ozonated water.

Right.

Because ozone is a really good way to knock out bacteria. And so these capsules, you know, you sent them to me, I took a couple. For a couple days, and I would be, like, burping up ozone.

Yeah.

Like, the cleanest burps ever. And I thought, gosh, why. You know, why waste my time making an ozone bag for. For rectal ozone insufflation to get my bloodstream. Why can't I just pop one of these up to. So I. I did that, and I. And I felt literally that same surge of energy that I get when I do, like, a. Like an ozone rectal insufflation with an ozone bank.

Oh, yeah.

And so. So tell me about what this stuff actually is.

Okay, so it's ozonated oil. So basically, you take a sunflower oil and then you reduce it. Now, everybody, I Get this. And your crowd will especially get this. You know, they go, oh, it's polyunsaturated fatty acid. Well, no, it's not. And the reason for that is you've done a triple pass redox reaction. So you reduce it. Reduce it, Reduce it.

The sunflower oil.

Yeah. And at the end of the day, it's basically 9 oxy noneno. 1 noneno or 9 oxy nonenoic acid. And so all this stuff has been reduced and it's got this one unstable oxygen molecule or oxygen at it rather kicked off the side of the chain. And so when you ingest that, it reacts and that oxygen comes off. And so it's kind of like a smart bomb for things like Sibo. And actually the. The intent really was useful for a small intest bacterial. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Take it, Take it on an empty stomach first thing in the morning, and it'll open up in your stomach. If you take it with food, it's got an enteric coating. So if you take it with food, it's more of a time releasing. It'll go through.

I've actually been. If I take it orally, I've been timing it apart from any other supplements, just because it's ozone. So powerful.

Yeah.

You know, especially if you take it with probiotics, it's going to nuke any. Any probiotics you might take along with it.

Well, the, the thing that's interesting about it is it's not normal ozonated oil is good, but this is better. And hey, you know, and I can say it because I have the lab data to show it. What happens is I wanted to do something that was in the same size, but that was almost akin to doing full ozone therapy. And so I looked back at kind of the. The origin of this thing, and Tesla was the first cat that actually did ozonated oil. And Nikola Tesla. Yeah, and he. He had the Tesla Ozonated Oil Company back in 1904. And so. Yeah, yeah, he developed a. A portable ozone generator, and then he used it to make ozonated oil. And they used it as a salve in World War I and a bunch of other places. And it was, you know, purported to be this amazing oil that had all these great properties.

Yeah, I mean, you can still buy ozonated oil salve. They're like the company that makes my ozone generator, Longevity usa. They make a salve.

Well, and so the difference is the.

Way it's like Vaseline that smells like a chlorine pool, basically.

Yeah. I'm actually I'm still not a fan of the smell of this stuff, but. But yeah, I mean, you can't argue with the results. Right. And so the way that, the way that Tesla did it was different than the way anybody else did it, which was straight up genius. It took me a little while to figure out what was going on because everybody else just takes either sunflower oil or olive oil and they bubble ozone through it, and then it stabilizes and.

Reduces.

And you bubble the ozone through the oil because that stabilizes it. So if you are going to ingest the ozone or breathe in the ozone, you're not damaging the lungs from the ozone because it's encapsulated with the lipid.

Yeah, exactly. And so. So you're stabilizing this thing and the viscosity shifting and it's becoming more of a gel all the time. Well, Tesla, the bright guy that he was, put it over these giant high strength magnetic field beds and he would electrify the beds, magnetize them. And ozone is polar. Right. So these stabilized ozone or stabilized ozone molecules, after you react them, they still have this one oxygen kicked off in their lipid form. And so it's a polar molecule, just meaning that it has a charge in an orientation. So he was using these giant electric field beds with the magnetism to basically line them up in a single file line so that they wouldn't react and so that they'd be more potent when they were either applied topically or ingested. It was, it was brilliant.

Yeah. Okay, so are you doing the same thing to make these ozone capsules?

No, actually. So I looked at that and thought, holy cow, that guy's really genuinely smart. And nobody else has done that probably for the past 120 years or so. And I, and I think honestly, it's just because they didn't realize what he was doing. They, you know, like, if you can make something in eight weeks and you, you can do it in two weeks, business would dictate that you do it in two weeks. Right, right. And so everybody just thought he was some kook, but turns out, not a kook, just very brilliant. So I thought, well, I could do that. And I, and I did. But then I thought, what would he do if he were around now? Because I've got, you know, a hundred years of tech. So I started testing it and I came up with a way to do this plasma confinement field and then get everything oscillating so that I could entrain all of the, all of the molecules so that they would be moving Coherently. And I always say it's the difference of. The example is like a light bulb and a laser. Same amount of photons. One is a coherent form, one is an incoherent form. One will warm a hot dog. Want to punch a hole through steel.

Right.

So it's all about the coherence and the focus. And so I came up with a system that would entrain them. And that was cool. Tested really well. Definitely had much more pop, but it would bleed off after a couple of hours. So I thought, well, how do I fix that? So then I started thinking about lasers making holograms. And, you know, if you think of a pane of glass, right. It's actually an amorphous solid. It's not crystalline. So the structure isn't, you know, defined rigidly. So if you dropped out the temporal scale and said, I'm going to look at a sheet of glass over the next 10,000 years. Right. It would basically be like a soap bubble just running down the paints.

Okay.

And it would pool at the bottom. So that's happening in a temporal scale that's different. And then the gel that I had is more similar to a piece of glass than, say, I don't know, a femtosecond pulse laser. So what I did was I set up this big system inside the plasma containment with dichroic beam splitters and lasers so that I could fire a pulse and basically lock a static waveform in. Which sounds kind of odd, but, you know, proof's in the pudding. This stuff works.

Yeah.

And it's kind of. It's interesting, actually, because you're locking the.

Static waveform inside the capsule.

Yeah. You're basically. You're making a holographic gel.

That's pretty cool.

Yeah. Well, if you've ever looked at.

And so the biological effect of that would be basically a more stable ozone.

It's a more stable coherent ozone. So it's kind of. I always say that the molecular signal is the same, but the volume is up. Right. So because of the coherence, you're increasing, effectively the amplitude of the waveform. The waveform is the same, but the amperage has been upped. Right. So you got the same wavelength, but the amplitude is much higher. So it hits.

Yeah.

A lot harder. I mean, you know that you've taken it.

Yeah. What's the best way to use this stuff? Because I've literally just been like, putting a capsule up the butt when I wake up and, you know, letting it get into the bloodstream that way.

Honestly, That's. That's great. Suppository is a terrific way to do it. You know, the. The reason it's in the interior coating is so that it can, you know, if you take it in the morning, apart from the other supplements and with food, that's probably ideal.

Yeah, yeah. Oh, and by the way, one thing we mentioned was, like, I actually just put out a podcast today about this full body stem cell procedure that I did down in park city, Utah with Dr. Harry Adelson. And they did, like, the oil change for my bloodstream before we did that protocol. It's called extracorporeal blood ozonation and oxygenation, where they literally will ozonate the blood, you know, expose it to UVA, B&C, expose it to infrared, and then it goes out of one arm through all these treatments, dialysis filter, then back in the other arm. And you mentioned, oh, well, they should make sure that people are not using ozone prior to that treatment. And I thought, well, gosh, we should tell people this on the podcast just in case. There's a lot of docs doing this protocol now.

Actually. No, ozone was cool. It was C60.

Oh, C60.

Yeah.

Okay, sorry, sorry. Okay, explain that.

Okay, so C60. It's carbon 60. And again, that's kind of the crux of most of the stuff at Wizard Sciences is based around that molecule. So the issue is.

And that's the molecule, by the way, that's like one of the only molecules that exists that's been shown to literally reverse aging.

Yeah, it's. It's kind of an amazing substance. Uh, it's. I'm still dumbfounded by it all the time. Um, but the. The problem with doing any sort of UV therapy is that it's an incredible antioxidant, but it's also a really potent pro oxidant. So what happens is, if you stimulate it with the certain frequencies of light, certain wavelengths, trigger it to pump out singlet oxygen. And so basically that'll just life the cell. Yeah.

Which is just like a nuke.

Yeah.

Cells.

Yeah, you're. You're just dropping. Yeah, it's like a low yield news.

So you would not want to go get some kind of, like, blood irradiated light exposure after having consumed something with C60 in it.

Yeah, it's bad news bears, which would.

Be pretty few and far between. But I'm sure there are some people out there who take supplements with C60 who also go and do these, like, blood irradiation treatments. They should really, really not do.

Yeah, you need to Dial it back for about 10 to 10. 10 days to two weeks before you do the therapy. Yeah, they're. I mean, great in concert, but separated temporarily. Right. You just get. You got to space it out. Otherwise you're hammering yourself. Because it really does. I mean, I'll show you a picture. You can even post it in the show notes of how badly it will lice the cells before it goes back in. If it gets exposed to uv.

Geez, it's frightening. Okay, well, that's. That's good to know. Random bit of trivia for the extremely small subset of the population who's taking C60 and go get their blood ozonated. Okay, so there. That. That product is called the biocharged resistor, right?

Yep.

Biocharge resist. Okay, so that's a cool one for anybody who wants ozone but doesn't have an ozone generator and wants to take it orally or do it suppository like I do with the ozone capsule. Now there's another one that I find intriguing. Now, you. You explained to me yesterday how you. You feel like this has the potential to reverse Alzheimer's. I would love for you to tell this story and explain this stuff to us, because this is actually what we put in our smoothie today, which is why we're just obviously so intelligent right now. I'm sure people's. You have smoke coming out their ears. Just trying to keep up with our mental firepower. But go ahead with neural Rx. What is this stuff?

So neural Rx is. It's caprylic acid, which is a fraction of mct. So it's the carbonate chain.

This is what a lot of people put in, like, their coffee.

Yeah.

You know, like Dave Asprey. Mark has marketed that as, like, brain octane.

Yeah, it was bulletproof.

Yeah, it was like, bulletproof brain octane. But that's ca. Caprylic acid.

Yeah, it's just caprylic acid. Or as you know. And the joke there is. It's octanoic acid. Right. So C8 octanoic brain octane. And it's kind of scientific humor.

Oh, that always went over my head. Okay, now I get. Now I get.

Yeah, it's nerd humor. So you take. Basically you take caprylic acid, and you bind it with a nanoparticle, and it becomes this beautiful purple color. And the reason I did that is I was trying to figure out how to roll back Alzheimer's. That was the goal. And for people that don't have a cognitive deficit, it's fantastic. As a nootropic. It's just. It'll light you up. But so I looked at kind of the pathogenesis of Alzheimer's and thought, okay, how does this work? And what I came up with was that it wasn't actually a disease in the classical sense of some sort of pathogen. You know, like pathogenic incursion. What it actually is, is a protective mechanism run amok. So if you think of, like, the omentum, that kind of lacy band around your midsection, it's the OEM E N.

T U M. So kind of surrounds all the intestines. Everything. Yeah.

So what your body does, if you have something that's acidic, just like, you know, too sugary or something like that, and it's going to potentially skew your ph or even something too basic, but specifically with acidity, it'll pack it in a little fat capsule and shroud it and throw it down and pack it around your midsection. Right. So you end up with a lot of lacy bands of fat around your midsection and, you know, visceral adipose issue, bad thing. But the body is going, oh, well, I can either look chunky and have a lot of mass to carry around, or I can die because my blood PH is altered, which is worse. So it has all these mechanisms to basically hold things in stasis so that you reach a balance and you can keep moving. So with the brain. The brain, of course, has systems like that too. So kind of what I surmised and my whole hypothesis was, oh, well, your brain's trying to keep itself healthy. So what's it doing? Well, whether it's some exogenous or endogenous pathogen that comes in, you know, it could be P, gingivalis, mercury, glyphosate, whatever. It's gonna pack it with proteins or amyloid plaques or something like that. Right. And, you know, your brain only cleans itself briefly, so it uses this thing called the glymphatic system.

So that's the thing like when people are sleeping and they're laying on their side. It was the kind of, like the recent glymphatic drainage craze that kind of pumped out a lot of recommendations to make sure you get your sleep so your brain can do its cleanup while you sleep.

Yeah, that's exactly it. And so for people that don't have, you know, really potent glymphatic systems and they're not cleaning their brain over time, you end up with this situation where you get a negative feedback loop because you've got all these plaques and proteins that are building up in your noggin at the same time that the energetics of your neurons are dropping and your mitochondria pumping out less ATP. And it's kind of this negative cascade. And so it just has a propensity towards falling down, down, down. And eventually you reach this point where it can't keep up. And that's when people start to have really bad cognitive deficits and drops. And so I thought, well, I can't solve it with one thing. What do I need to do? So I kind of fell back, regrouped, and thought, okay, I need to get something to drop neural inflammation. So, right. I, you know, put the components together with the C60 coupled with acrylic acid because it hits your liver, fractionates into beta hydroxybutyrate with the C60 still adducted and bounces up to your brain.

And so, so that's important because a lot of folks who make the C60 supplements will use olive oil, but by using caprylic acid, you're actually bypassing the gastric digestion process, going straight to the liver, churning out the beta hydroxybutyrates and getting that C60 as an anti inflammatory straight into neural tissue without having to go through digestion.

Exactly. Let the body do what it does. Yeah, you know, I mean, that's the thing. You can either take the kind of the very frequent allopathic medical approach and just hammer on stuff and try and use a bigger hammer to get it done, or you can just let the body do what it's supposed to do.

I kind of prefer the latter.

Yeah, yeah, totally. Okay, so you've got the neural inflammatory component, the neural anti inflammatory component. But are you putting anything else in there?

Yeah, a ton of stuff. So in order to upregulate the energetic so that it triggers the glymphatic system to start taking out the trash. I've put a couple of components in there, like nmn, Right. Nicotinamide mononucleotide.

Right.

Resveratrol.

Which is the form of NAD that's most beneficial for like hypothalamic tissue and. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I, I have that stacked in there to upregulate the energetics inside the cells and the neurons. But the problem with that is the masses over time have become really large. So I put a proteolytic enzyme in there so that, that actually is small enough to bypass the blood brain barrier. So that goes in, starts breaking down all of the tau proteins, bit amyloid plaqued to smaller pieces, and the Example, I always.

Which, which proteolytic enzyme do you use?

Radio peptidiaseptidiase.

Okay, got it.

Yeah. So basically, if you, if you're trying to move rocks with a hose and you have a low pressure hose, you're not gonna move big rocks. Right. So you have to break them down into small components. So you use the proteolytics to actually go in and start cracking that into small pieces.

That's the same stuff we put into Keon Flex for soreness, by the way. That's like our top joint selling or our top selling joint supplement is it's got a lot of the serotopeptidase and proteolytic enzymes in it because it's wonderful for soreness also.

Yeah, it actually, it was a drug in Japan for about 34 years and then it got down regulated to a supplement because they weren't able to show that enough of it was getting into the tissues. But I think the way that both you and I are approaching it is if you couple it with the right things, you can actually get enough of it into the body to do something beneficial. So that handled the component of breaking it down size wise, the upping, the energetics triggers the lymphatic system dropping out, the neural inflammation, and then the other, the other component is triggering an upregulation of neurogenesis. So you're actually ending up with more neurons at a faster pace because your, your body actually produces new neurons every day. The problem is they're insanely resource consumptive. Right?

Yeah.

So your brain accounts for 2 1/2% of your body mass, sucks down between, you know, 20 and 25% of your oxygen capacity. So it's highly consumptive. And so your body, being the super hyper efficient thing it is, always looks for the best and most beneficial homeostasis. So it sees those neurons and if they're not under load and not necessary, it goes through synaptic pruning every single day and kills them.

Wow.

Yeah. So the way to. The way to bypass that. And this is why I always tell people that don't have a cognitive deficit. If you're gonna take neural Rx as a nootropic, in about week three, start doing something that you've never done before. Cognitive.

Oh, okay.

Yeah. And you've probably heard me say that. So the gig is if you put yourself under a new cognitive load, your brain will cement those neurons into place and won't synaptically prune them. If you don't, then it's Going to follow its normal path through all the, you know, all the pathways are already previously myelinated.

Right.

It'll go, ah, this is extraneous. I don't need it.

Right, right. So, I mean, that makes sense from a nootropic standpoint, but I mean, as far as Alzheimer's go, what would happen if somebody like, I know you can't make like, health claims and stuff, but, like, let's say theoretically, someone with dementia or Alzheimer's were to take this? I don't know if they have. I mean, what would you expect?

I would expect that you would see a massive shift in their cognitive performance and a large reversal of the disease.

Have you had anybody with Alzheimer's actually try it?

I have. And I would download. Well, I'll do it, I'll do it right here. So, you know, the, the FDA being what it is, I can't make any.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I really, Yeah, I, I, I think it's, it's a fantastic idea because that approach, it's multifactorial, Right. You're accelerating lymphatic drainage, increasing synaptic pruning, providing with a decrease in neural inflammation, decreasing the talon amyloid plaque formation, essentially tackling a lot of the mechanisms of Alzheimer's from multiple angles with one, one product.

Yeah. Sadly, it's not one pill, I'm sure, or other, otherwise people would want it. But, but the way I see a human body, right, is we operate on so many different levels. We're chemical, biochemical, you know, photonic, auditory. I mean, there's all these sorts of interactions you can have. I mean, quantum biology is the one that probably excites me the most because I can do things in the lab now and I, and I have data on it that I, to be honest, don't quite understand yet, but it's there and it's repeatable.

So, like what?

Well, I can change the redox potential of different molecules without actually affecting the molecular configuration. Right. So from the standpoint of running it on a GC Ms. Or an hvlc, which are just analytical tools, you see no difference.

But just for people who don't know, that's gas chromatography and liquid chromatography. Yeah.

Right. So when you run those, right, that's how you identify what a compound is. It isolates the molecule based on the emissions and you can see what it is.

Just, just isolation identification.

Yeah, exactly. And so the thing is, it's the same molecule. It looks the same, but the function is different. And so the way I keep thinking about it is. It's kind of like if you looked at a box and said, okay, this box is made of lead. This box is made of wood. They look identical, but they function very differently. So from the standpoint of science, we're not quite at the point where we have the tools to really accurately assess what's under the hood. You know, I liken it to Van Leeuwenhoek. Right. Pre microscope, you know, the common thought was, oh, your body is hurt because the humors are affecting it and spirits are getting it. You know. Then Van Leeuwenhoek comes along. He's like, oh, look at that. Little bitty bugs.

Yeah.

So we're just. We're at the threshold of seeing something new, you know, and it's not quite quantifiable yet it's repeatable. But that's the beauty of science, right?

I mean, quantum biology is absolutely fascinating. The ability to be able to direct small packets of energy and actually influence even. Like last night, we ordered chicory tea at the restaurant. And using quantum biological principles and our hands and what someone would do, Qigong practice, literally, like, everybody at the table tried pre and post. The effects of us directing energy onto chicory root tea. And it went from bitter to, like, smooth and sweet. And it wasn't like, one person at the table who notices, like, everybody.

Yeah.

It's like tasting the change. It's. It's crazy.

Yeah. And the thing with that is it's repeatable. And. And if you, you know, the old adage of, you know, like, your mom's cooking is made with love, it's better for you.

Yeah.

Well, as it turns out, it appears that.

Yeah.

Even at a, you know.

Right.

A subatomic level that is, in fact.

Meaning that the emotions of love, peace and joy, those frequencies, can actually change the vibration and therefore the taste and smell and sensation derived from food or drinking.

Yeah. And we don't.

That's quantum biology.

Yeah. We don't really understand how the vibrational component of, you know, small packets of energy directed at something can do that. You know, because it. From the classical perspective, it's not doing anything. But, you know, when you run redox potential on it and you see a shift that's very definable every time you go, well, what the hell? I don't get it. And I still. I really don't get it yet. I will, you know, hopefully. Hopefully, I'll crack that egg.

So I think this one's called. Called Olympic Rx. Tell me about that one.

So I Actually made this for some guys that were doing the Olympic trials for pole vault or reverse limbo as I was calling it last year. And they. They were trying to get, you know, 1 to 2% increases, as most guys at that capacity are. And they started getting like 13 to 17% bumps. And in their output performance. Geez, it's crazy, actually. And you know, you can. I'll give you a picture. You can post one of the guys. They measured their grip strength because they have to go up and they rotate on the pole and so they have. You know, it's kind of like when you shake hands with these guys, it's like shaking hands with a giant crab.

Yeah, they'll crush your fingers. And so they're.

They're same as the average plumber or mechanic. Right, Right.

They have forearms like Popeye. And so these guys, you know, they. They would measure their grip strength. And a great grip strength was like 165ish was a really great grip strength. And they started hitting 200, 200 plus. And one of them actually cracked the machine that measures the grip strength. I'll show you the picture. It's hilarious. They sent it to you and they're like, well, Olympic at work. And so basically you were alluding earlier to, you know, most people use olive oil. Well, in this case, I did use olive oil.

People use olive oil for the oil that they use at C60.

Exactly. So I use this with olive oil because olive oil goes through the majority of your cells as opposed to trying to target, you know, neural tissue. So this stuff does the same basic approach concept. It's God, you know, beta alanine, so you can up muscular output astaxanthin, which is really great. I mean, I'm sure everybody can look at this. Same thing with NMN Resveratrol Coq 10 PQQ. Because actually, with the PQQ, I found that there was such a shift in output that I needed actually more mitochondria to buffer the load. So.

Which is something which P PQQ is amazing. Like, I. I think PQQ CoQ10 and you know, maybe. Maybe Mito Q are. Are. And you know, to a certain extent, sometimes combined with glutathione, like, that's kind of like mitochondrial food. It sounds like you've kind of like take. Taken that and stepped it up a little bit.

Well, yeah, I tried to kind of. I won't say I cracked the code on it for sure, but I will say that I made some really good strides in the, the. The stuff I was seeing in terms of ATP output was stupid. It was, it was just.

How are you measuring ATP output?

You actually use lucifera.

Like a glow. You put it in a luminometer. So it's basically like. I used a citation. Six is actually the piece of equipment in the lab and you put it in and it phosphoresces when hit with a certain frequency of light. So you can actually see what the ATP concentration is.

So you basically taking this Olympic Rx formula and then bathing cells like in vitro, and then measuring with luciferase the ATP production by the cells.

Yep, that's exactly cool.

Yeah. Interesting.

Well, you gotta quantify this stuff, right? If you're gonna try and figure out how it works, you gotta quantify it. So there, there was an old product called unfair advantage that I had worked on, not developmentally, but just worked on. Was.

Yeah, that was, that was one of the bulletproof products.

Yeah, that was one of the original bulletproof products.

Right.

And so I, I was actually meeting with Dave Asprey and said, hey man, I, you know that thing that you did, I think I can, I can upend that a little bit. And he's like, oh, well, I'll send you some. So he sent me a bunch of boxes and I, I was comparing the ATP output and I got a 3313% boost and.

Oh my God.

Yeah. Which is kind of ridiculous. Right. And so I sent it to him and he wrote back and he was like, holy shit, is that safe? And I said, no, absolutely not, absolutely not. But again, you know, that's the thing is you've got to figure out how much can you shift, what are the bounds, and then you make it safe.

Yeah.

Right. So if your car can go 180, you don't drive 180, you know.

Right.

But it'll easily cruise along at 90 and you're ducky. Right. So that's kind of what I did, is I just, I figured out how to modulate all that stuff. And one of the big keys was you have to do the pqq because you can't, you can't have that much energy production across the normal concentration of mitochondria.

And so is the PQQ increasing mitochondrial biogenesis.

Exactly. Yeah.

Okay. So you're literally building new mitochondria while allowing all the mitochondria to make more fuel.

Yeah. And so. And you have to do that because it's, you know, if you take a Ford Fiesta that's, you know, a four cylinder car, you can put NOS on it. And you know, you can boost the thing up to 600 horsepower, which is kind of what happens. And you know, the performance is ridiculous, but when you do that, you'll blow the motor.

Yeah.

So you have to distribute the load. So for a four cylinder it's really difficult, but if it's, you know, a nice Mercedes V12, you're cruising along just fine.

Interesting.

Yeah, it really works, man. I mean like one of the CrossFit guys that's doing it hit me up and said that he was hitting lifts that he hadn't hit in seven years and geez, yeah, truly. And had run. I think he said actually look, I.

Mean like I, I, I think that, and I, I briefly was mentioning this at dinner last night. I think that for any athlete or someone who's focusing on performance, basically the two pools that you want to keep topped off. Because really performance isn't necessarily synonymous with longevity. If you're trying to increase longevity, you would actually want to have phases where you're pretty much stripped of ATP, stripped of amino acids down regulating mtor, you know, cold, hungry libido less and you know, curl up in a fetal position in your hyperbaric chamber so you can live until you're 160. But if you're tardigrade approach. But if you want performance, you're basically looking at your ATP pool and your amino acid pool like those are the two things that you want to keep topped off. And, and you know, I, I, I feel like we've cracked the code at keon not to like toot my own horn even though I'm gonna do it anyway.

I will tell you man, shameless plug on this for you. I, that's actually what I give my kids.

And yeah, so the Keon aminos like that's got the amino acid like and we, we went back to the drawing board. We, you know, we, we don't private label some existing amino acid formulation. We literally like matched very, very close to what you'll find in human skeletal muscle for the amino acid content and then jacked up the leucine just a little bit for even more of a boost. But the, the aminos is, is one part, but the other part of it, in addition to the amino acid pool is the ATP pool. That's why a lot of people use creatine, you know, creatine phosphate as one way to replenish that ATP pool more quickly. But you know what I'm thinking now is and this is what I'm going to try and what I'm going to recommend to some of my athletes now is why not increase ATP pool with Olympic Rx, maybe add creatine into the mix, you know, at around 5 grams or so to increase the creatine phosphate pool and then add amino acids into that, you know, like 5, 10 grams of essential amino acids. And I think. And that that's what I'm going to experiment with after talking with you a little bit. As far as like a stack for performance, I'll. I'll bet it will work like gangbusters.

It will I actually, because I take your aminos and I do cycle on and off creatine and but only when I really need to do some output. But I, you know, same thing with you. I really don't have as much time as I'd like to have to do that kind of stuff. But you know, I can see it when I deal with, you know, pro athletes.

Yeah.

It's, it's unreal actually the difference in output. Actually the thing that's the, the cautionary tale is you have to actually have a lot of control when you do it because your performance output can go up so much. Your muscles can handle it. Right. Your sarcomeric density doesn't change, but your muscle recruitment changes. So you know, normally your brain down regulates your firing capacity to 25 to 30% of your skeletal muscle. And when you're on a high dose of Olympic it actually is a dose dependent curve. So you can do this just ridiculous stuff on it.

Yeah.

But you gotta be careful because tendons and ligaments don't grow like that. Right. Like contracyte formation is much slower.

Yeah.

And you know, sarcomeres, it's the reason.

That people who do like tdcs pre workout like transcranial stimulation for increased motor neuron recruitment or people who do electrical muscle stimulation which is really just bypassing the brain and directly recruiting the muscles with a handheld controller or people who take exogenous supplementation with things like testosterone. All three of those populations, when they work out can actually push themselves so hard that, you know, paradoxically that they, that they injure themselves. And so it sounds like maybe you know, throwing Olympic Rx in the mix too. You just want to receive the pocket.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Performance is super intense.

Yeah.

Just be mindful, you know.

Yeah.

And actually rather than do, you know, tcds just take some neural.

Yeah.

It actually because of potentiation.

Yeah.

Does the same thing.

Yeah. We're, we're going to called out by some strength conditioning coach or personal trainer, you know, who's riding the Gatorade bandwagon. Be like, oh, these, these snake oil salesmen are telling us that we shouldn't take too much of this because we might perform so well that we injure ourselves. That's a great way to sell a performance supplement. But no, I mean, like, seriously, like I, I get that it sounds kind of like, like these are super bold claims, but I mean, frickin try this stuff.

And just FYI, it's free range cold pressed organic snakes.

Oh.

Just so you know.

Yes. Yeah, this, the snake oil is very, very high quality. Okay. So the other one that, that's kind of similar, I think from a performance standpoint is this stuff with the, with the shilajit in it. You know, the old Russian conqueror of mountains, destroyer of weakness.

Exactly.

Shilajit's very interesting. You know, this, this blackish mineral that seems to really enhance energy levels. You know, it's kind of like cordyceps, you know, falls in that bandwagon is one of these, like ancient, you know, performance enhancing molecules. But, but tell me about what you've done with shilajit.

Well, first, do you ever wonder what the hell these guys were doing like a thousand years ago? Climbing a mountain, finding something in a little crevice and going, I think I'll eat this.

Listen, I, I am convinced that just about most of not only the superfoods, but even just like the normal staples like say lobster that we eat these days were probably originally discovered by people who were so starving that they just started shoving anything in their mouth that they could find from a lobster to black mold growing on a rock up in the mountains. And it was pretty much just like, hey, we're gonna die if we don't try to put this in our mouth and see what happens.

You know, where I grew up in New Orleans, it's kind of similar, except it's more like if you can catch it and you can deep fry it and bread it, you can eat it. Yeah, same sort of premise. So the shilajit, basically.

It alters a lot of components in your electron transport chain and it massively upregulates things. So if you took CoQ10, right, to upregulate one of the components in your ETC, you'll get, let's say you take 300 MB of it, it'll cap out at 300 mgs. But if you take 300 mgs of Shilajit, your body actually converts it and you end up with one and a half grams instead of 300 milligrams. So it's like a, a one to. Yeah, one to five ratio of.

Of Shilajit to converting to Coq 10 to Coq 10. Okay. So basically, you're getting an exponential increase in Coq 10 from a smaller intake of shilajit.

Yeah. And so, yeah, it's actually. It really does upregulate you. And so if you combine that with NMN and resveratrol, you end up buffering all these different points. And, you know, for mitochondrial support, it goes through the roof, you know, which. Which does the same thing. A lot of the things that I'm playing with are just basically ways to upregulate mitochondrial function.

Well, why couldn't you take. It sounds to me like you could take Olympic RX and then just any form of shilajit and get a similar effect.

Yeah, you could. Actually, the downside of that is it's because the Olympic is, you know, the sweet sauce There is the C60, and it has to be combined with a lipid, so you can't take it in a capsule. So now, that's not to say that at some point someone won't crack that egg and, you know, have powdered C60, because I'm sure that's coming. But for right now, you know, there. There are a lot of obvious forms of C60 that are functionalized where you put hydroxyl groups on it. And the thing that's silly to me about that is even if you bind it that way, you're still not gonna get the same upregulation in the cells because you can't get the same penetration through the cell membranes.

Right.

So just because it's there doesn't mean it's usable.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Food in a can versus food on a table.

By the way, do you still endorse C60 for hair growth?

Uh, yes, I do.

You supply it topically or do you like the internal consumption for hair growth?

Well, both, but for different reasons. Primarily topically. But internally, Ian's got gray hair, by the way.

You guys Google him. I'll put a picture of him at one of the show notes. BenGreenfieldFitness.com Wizardscience yeah, it's.

Yeah, full on. Like, doc. Brown, gray hair.

Yeah, that's right. Let's see. Walk along the side of the road. Right now, I look like Samson and Samson.

Yeah. So it's basically when I play with that stuff, trying to upregulate the whole system. And for topical use, it goes into the cells follicularly. Right. So you hit the follicular cells, you upregulate it there. If you take it internally, you upregulate the mitochondria throughout your body and you drop inflammatory response. So at about the two hour mark, after ingesting this stuff, you get this huge drop in cytokines.

So after ingesting the C60.

Yeah. So you kind of want to hit it from both sides, but looking at it pound for pound, topical application, way better.

Okay, got it. So you could literally just massage it into your scalp.

Yeah. Put it on your scalp. I'm actually, I've got a.

Which of your products, if people wanted to. Like those people are making an order and they're ordering some neural Rx and some Olympic Rx and maybe this ampigen stuff. The. The, the C60. What should they get? If they literally just want to keep it on their bathroom counter and rub.

It in their mctrx. It's called mctrx.

That's just folic acid. And.

Yeah. And it's a really bioavailable version of it. So it's just higher, slightly higher concentration. That's one of the things that people don't get is like, you can have 1.2 mgs per milliliter, but if it's not entirely bioavailable, you. You may as well just buy 0.8.

Yeah.

You know, and so that was one of the things I did when I started Wizard Sciences, was trying to really drill down and go back and reassess, actually reassess my own stuff and figure out, like, okay, how can I do it better? How can I make it more bioavailable? How can I get a higher impact? Yeah, you know, it's that. It's that kind of iterative process. Right. You want to. You want to go back. I always joke about it as being called reinventing the oval. Right. We always think we made the wheel because we've come up with something that works. But in reality, it's very rarely the optimized form. It's usually kind of wonky.

I like it. The oval. Reinventing the oval.

Yeah.

Okay. So. So speaking of reinventing the oval, like, one of the things I was going to do this weekend, we kind of changed plans was it was. We were going to do like a combo ceremony with some of this frog. Frog venom that kind of turns you into a mighty hunter for a couple weeks after you burn a few holes of the stuff into your arm and combine it with two things that I actually use on a regular basis. I snort hoppe and I use these Sananga eye drops, which I think you and I are going to do later on surge of energy, kind of more like Amazonian medicine. You know, Sananga being this, this medicine that you put into your, it's your eyes for increased visual perception and energy and it burns like hell for a couple of minutes, but you feel a big surge in energy and then Hoppe being very similar except you're snorting it up your nose. You know, it's like a, a tobacco like alkaloid that again gives you a huge surge of energy. And you know, in combo this, this frog medicine kind of falls into a similar category. But of course the problem is you get like 15, 20 minutes of pretty intense vomiting when you, when the poison hits your system. And so you were explaining to me I and yesterday about this way that you could synthesize similar peptides as, as you would get in, let's say something like combo without the kind of like that biological blowback of nausea and puking.

Yeah. So they're, they're, you know, I've done combo with Todd Shipman and I know you have as well. And that's kind of, he's, in my opinion, he's kind of the best guy out there in terms of holding space and actually doing it the right way. And he walked me through kind of the science of what was going on with it and then I kind of took the ball and ran with it a little bit on that front because what I want to do is continue looking at. There are probably, I don't know, 300 different or more than that in reality. I'm sure 300 different peptides in there that are biologically active.

Something like the combo frog poison.

Yeah, that's. Nature's always pretty pretty.

I call it poison. But like literally there's a, there's a whole book I recently read about this. Like half the things we call poison are technically medicines or supplements now.

Yeah, well, the dose makes the poison. Right. You know, so it's, if you, if you look at that and you start breaking it down and looking at all the different peptides, you can isolate which peptides do what. And that's kind of a new, a new thing that I'm going to be working on over the next couple years. I got big peptide synthesis machines so that I could do that. Because right now the, the stance on peptides is, is a little grim in the marketplace. But I figure people start to actually realize like this stuff works, let's use it. And it may take a couple years, but that's coming down the pike. And the same thing with Sananga the, you know, the eye drops, it's basically, you know, pepper spraying yourself. But I tell you after you do it once, man, your vision is more clear than it probably has ever been in your life. Or at least that was my experience. I'm about you.

Yeah, I, when, whenever I do it, because I, I actually, I use Sananga and hoppe quite a bit more than I actually talk about. Like I, I probably three or four times a week was lay flat on my back, do a few drops of Sananga, snort some hoppe, and then I'm off. And I feel great. I almost feel like it's a vagal nerve reset. Which is interesting because there is a link between the, the, the nicotine exposure that you get from sorting HA and acetylcholine based stimulation of the vagal nerve. So it's kind of an interesting link. So people with poor vagal nerve tone sometimes benefit from these type of like alkaloid surges. But anyways, so the, the sananga, yeah, it does, it does burn like hell. But you get great vision afterwards. Although you told me, and I don't know if you want to explain this to people, that when you did it you didn't get much of a burn because you've been figuring out a way to get yourself into this different mental space. Can you talk about that?

Yeah, sure. So it was, I was actually going through this kind of period where I was really working on trying to just sort of, you know, the, the leveling up and the expanding of my consciousness and. Which sounds a little woo, woo, but you know, it to some and to others it makes perfect sense. And I'd recommend anybody, you know, get David Hawkins Power versus Force and do that. Yeah. One of probably the most impactful that.

Book, by the way, goes into like what we were talking about earlier with quantum biology and like using your hands to project feelings of love or peace or joy over an object or say a liquid or a meal you're about to eat. And the difference from a frequency and energetic standpoint between that and feelings of, say, anger or fear or shame.

Yeah, so I was working on that and I reached this point where I kind of realized that the thing that I hadn't really reconciled and as a male in this culture, the idea of surrendering is really, it's sort of tantamount to giving up and, you know, being a lesser creature. But that's not really the case. You know, I mean, I think, not to be terribly esoteric, but the idea of, you know, surrender to something greater than yourself is is actually really beneficial and freeing. And so, well, not only is it.

Beneficial and freeing, but. But surrendering means surrendering attachments, which means that you are acknowledging the fact that.

To a certain extent you are enough and you don't need all of these attachments in life like Olympic Rx and neural Rx and Shiloh Jit, you know, all this stuff that's great, but really, at the end of the day, you should be able to roll out of bed in the morning and say, hey, I am my own person. For me, as a man of faith, as a Christian, I still trust upon and rely upon the mercies of God. And yet by surrendering attachments, I think back to what you were saying about men. I think it turns you into more of a man to be able to say, hey, I need nothing except me and, you know, and my faith, for example.

It's interesting, but I completely agree that, you know, and also with surrender, it's the, the kind of the agnostic behavior where you're not attached to things makes you, at least in my profession as a scientist, right. You become far better because you don't have any ego wrapped around. Is this, you know, experiment going to fail? Is it going to.

You remove the bias of ego?

Yeah. And, you know, that's incredibly helpful because, you know, the, the approach in a lab of fail, fast fail often is pretty viable. You know, you, you don't get wrapped around the axle saying, oh, my God, you know, I, I postulated this and it's wrong. You don't care. You just, oh, it's wrong. Move on, you know, and you keep going until you find what's right. So for me, the surrender thing was, well, okay, I'm gonna go see Todd and have him do this hunanga thing. Because the pain level was supposed to be super intense. And I thought, okay, if you're truly surrendering, then you surrender everything. You surrender the emotions, you surrender the physical feelings, the sensations and everything. So I went, I laid down, Todd put the eye drops in, and you can ask him about this because he thought it was really perplexing. So I opened my eyes and basically it is like getting pepper sprayed in the eyes and nothing changed.

It's pretty uncommon for someone not to squirm quite a bit when they get this stuff.

Yeah. So my breathing didn't change, my pulse didn't change. I didn't twinch or flinch or twitch or anything. And when I, you know, this sensation just went away after a few minutes and I got up and Todd was looking really perplexed And I said, what's, what's wrong? And he said, well, I didn't actually think that was possible. I said, what do you mean? And he goes, well, nothing changed. You didn't, you didn't move. And I just explained. Well, yeah, it's because I was working on surrender. So, you know, as part of surrendering, you truly surrender everything, all of the sensations.

What's going through your mind when you do that? Like for people who are curious. Okay, well, how, how do I actually put myself into a space where I'm, you know, I could frickin, you know, sit and get a tattoo without my, without, you know, my, my eyes blinking.

Yeah. Or have an appendectomy with nothing there.

Exactly.

You know, Gandhi style. Well, I think just love, love and resolve and devotion. You know, you, you look at, you look at contributing to something bigger than yourself. You know, it's. I was joking with one of the guys in my lab yesterday that, you know, first principles for me means going back to seeing what will move the needle for humanity, which is, I know, not, not really a common thought, but that really is, it's what gets me moving. It's what I want to do. I kind of feel like we're here to contribute. And you know, there is as. And nature seems to work in different ways than I was always taught. Right. You know, you, you're taught that you, you push forward, you move forward. I don't actually think that's the way it works. You know, it's certainly not the way it works in nature. Nature, things are pulled forward. Right. There's a space and something moves forward.

Can you give an example what you mean by that?

Well, sure. The wind. Right. Everybody says, oh, the wind was blowing. No, it actually wasn't. It was being drawn past you. Right. Like right now you and I are getting blasted with wind. But it's actually because there's a low pressure center behind us and it's moving into that low pressure center. So it's expanding into its potential. You're right.

It's more of a vacuum than a force.

Yeah, exactly. And I think people are the same. You know, you don't, you don't have to send acorns to oak tree school. They just are meant to expand and become what they're going to become. And it's inherent. And so you express that inherent potential as you move through life. And I think, you know, I know for myself and one of my other friends who's a very renowned scientist, you know, he, he actually all the work that he's been doing for the past couple decades came to him in a dream when he was 26 and he spent the past couple decades sussing it out in the lab. And you know, I, I've had things come the same way. The cancer serum that I developed, I can't take credit for it because I literally woke up and knew how to synthesize it.

You know, you're, it's, it's very risky these days to say something like cancer serum on a podcast.

Well, I'm not saying it does anything other than maybe acts as a paperweight, but, you know, it was an interesting configuration of molecules and, you know, I woke up and knew how to do it, so.

Interesting.

Certainly did not come from my noggin.

Yeah, yeah. How do, like, how do you come up with ideas? That's something I'm curious about because, you know, a lot of people would paint you as, you know, maybe with no thanks to me for the way I framed you as like the madman inventor scientist who's coming with all these crazy ideas. But, but do you have a process like, like, do you have like, you know, for example, there's a book in my office called the Road Less Stupid. It's why the one of I think the best business books out there. And it literally the entire book is based upon the idea of an entrepreneur, business owner, a CEO, carving out intentional thinking time each week where you're literally thinking through and writing down the answers to a lot of the questions that solve problems that are presented within the book. Is it like that for you? Do you just have thinking time or do things come to you when you're thinking, dreaming or sleeping at night? Or how does it work for you? What's your process?

Well, so typically it, it hits, you know, all sorts of ways. Usually people will come to me when they have some sort of condition or problem. And I do a lot of, you know, I know this is a time suck, but I do a lot of one off things where somebody will have a specific condition and I'll fix that condition. You know, again, you're not supposed to make any claim, but that's just the reality of it. And I think there would be a litany of people who would attest to that fact. But it's, you know, people will come and say, okay, I've got this wrong and so I'll address that. Or I'll look at a problem and say like biochar and go, God, this would be fantastic if we could solve this on a global scale. But there's Nothing there. So then I'll start working on it. Or in the case of like the biochar thing, we needed a special heat shield. Nothing existed. So I developed one. And the process for development was literally me saying, wait, can you explain why.

You need a heat shield for biochar?

Because the temperature gets up to about 1500 degrees and if you want people working in close proximity to something that's.

A process of making it, of burning this stuff down to form this hyper concentrated carbon. You're talking about the beginning of the show. It's so hot.

Yeah, exactly. It's very, very, very hot. And so if you want people to be safe in close proximity to it, you've got to do something to block it. So you need to stop thermal transference and you have to have all kinds of special stuff to do that. So there was nothing that hit the exact criteria of what I needed. So I just asked the question of, you know, how does this work? What do I need? And literally in about an hour and a half I had an entire formula down to the very, very small percentages of exactly what needed to be synthesized and how. And to be honest, I didn't know if it would work. You know, I had no idea. It seemed very strange to me. But you know, I've done the process enough that I trust the process. Right. So I went in, synthesized everything and tested it and it, and it worked. You know, and sometimes it's kind of funny because the process is there's a need and do I feel like it's safe for me to fill the need and you know, because a lot of times I think technology moves forwards but it can be co opted for very ungood sort of nefarious purposes. So you have to ask yourself if you're the, the not really the gatekeeper, but sort of the conduit that a lot of things come through. You have to be really judicious and ask yourself, are we ready? Is it wise? How is this most likely to be used? Like, I was working with a friend of mine who's an MD and she was wanting to develop a drug for human connection, which I thought, you know, fantastic, right?

A drug for human connection.

Yeah, more like an intactogenic.

Like psilocybin.

Yeah, actually very much like that. But something that has a very intactogenic.

Component, I guess like MDMA would probably be a better example. Yeah, some type of heart opener effect.

Exactly. And so I thought about it and you know, I came up with a couple of ways to do it. But then I started thinking about what is the potential for misuse on this. And it's kind of like, you know, Rohypnol. Right. It's been rebranded, it is still used, but in a different capacity. And it's got some great benefits, but it's also got the potential for misuse.

Remind me of. Rohypnol is.

Rohypnol is typically thought of as the date rape drug.

Oh, it's like, like gamma hydroxy.

That's it.

Ghp.

Yeah. And so GHP is commonly used now. You can get a good prescription for it, but you can also use it in a very negative way. You know. And so I think the world would be surprisingly different if the people like myself who constantly turn down new tech and new drugs and new therapeutics actually stopped to ask the question, is this ecologically sound? You know, am I doing the right thing? But that's not the way that research typically functions. You know, there are a lot of guys who just do stuff because they have a grant for it. I've seen so much research that I thought was brilliant that was never seen to fruition because the grant ran out. Wow. Yeah, it's sad.

Crazy. So for you, as far as your lab goes, I assume that with wizard sciences and everything that you don't have to get grants. You can do a lot of this just based on the income that you're generating from the supplements company. And is that, is that really the primary source of revenue for you?

Yeah, that's, that is the primary source of revenue is, you know, the supplements and the consulting that I do for other companies and you know, and that it's, I mean, you know, a lot of the people that I do consulting work for.

Yeah, a lot of people in like, in like the, you know, supplements industry.

Yeah. If, if it's something that I think is, is good or beneficial or is going to move the needle and help, I sign on in some cases, like one that comes to mind. You know, I told him I do the whole thing for nothing, just because it seemed like a noble pursuit. You know, it was, it was something that there was a demand and it was actually, it was for a non addictive opioid.

For a non addictive opioid.

Yeah. So my lab is in Oklahoma and you can see the, you know, kind of the meth addled people mill by sometimes and their lives have been just devastated. And really. For what purpose? You know, it's basically financial gain in the sheer avarice of a few, you know, and so I thought, well, non addictive opioid that would help a lot of people. So I set out to crack that egg.

Did you?

Yes, I did.

Tell me more. Interesting.

I really can't until, you know, those guys have.

This is like a recent development.

Yeah, okay.

Yeah, because I was going to say most, most people use, you know, something like, like Kratom or else, you know, if they're super addicted, they'll go do like high dose nad or detox via something like an ibogaine clinic or something like that, you know, and you know, if there were a non addictive opioid, you could literally just bleed yourself off of Kratom and anything else you happen to be on. And, and you know, it is kind of interesting though because, you know, I think there is this phenomenon of not just increasing availability and ability to figure out how to get prescribed some of these opioids or get them in like an online pharmacy, but there's also kind of this idea and I have to be very careful in my industry, you know, of like biohacking and supplementation and transhumanism and it's almost like escapism slash fear of death. Yeah. And you see that a lot. And you know, I know a lot of like, you know, biohackers and fitness enthusiasts who are literally just like trapped and crushed in like this, oh gosh, like a treadmill to nowhere escapist loop of like uppers downers, exercise, exercise, exercise, you know, do, do all the hacks to increase longevity. And then at the end of the day when you step back and you look at it from the context of like how we live our days is how we live our lives. And this is a question I ask myself a lot because I'm constantly checking myself. It's like, okay, how did I help the world today? How did I create beauty or produce beauty? How did I equip my sons to go forth and make this world a better place versus how much time did I literally spend today, like burning calories and trying to live a long time and, and you know, eating food so that I could then go out and burn more calories. Right. So you, you see that, that cycle a lot of times. You know, I talk about it.

So many people.

My last book, Fit Soul, I talk about that. The whole conundrum.

Well, a lot of people are wrapped around the axle by that. I, I think actually if, if, you know, people took the idea of, you know, you've got life is more like a kind of a choose your own adventure novel where you have set exit points but you know, the terminus is Effectively kind of predestined. If you approach it like that, then it kind of negates the necessity for the fear of dying and the, you know, the ridiculous. Trying to cling to every second. Right. How, if you're so worried about what's to come, you can never actually be where you are.

Yeah, yeah. Which is. I mean.

I mean.

This idea of living in the present is something I've been thinking a lot more about, namely this idea that there is so much that passes us by when it comes to appreciating a lot of the more subtle nuances in life, because we're always thinking ahead to the next thing. And one thing that I've been doing lately, I think I may have talked about this recently briefly on a podcast, is when I listen to music, what I'll do is I'll try to listen for the space or the silence between the notes. And it's really interesting. You know, I think you played. What'd you play? Saxophone. Saxophone, yes. You played saxophone. You're a musician. You understand this. Like, when you listen to a song and you intently listen to it rather than as background music, but you literally play it, you know, with earbuds in, and you listen so intently that you're picking out every subtle nuance, every space of silence between the notes, every. Every variance between, you know, a major to a minor, to a resolution and back. What happens is there's this weird shift that takes place, at least for me mentally, to where if I start off the day like that, because that's what I do now. Like, I roll out of bed, and the first thing I do is I have this amazing playlist. I put in headphones, and I play one song from that playlist, and the whole time I'm just hanging on every note and listening very intently without being distracted by anything else. And I find that the. The ability to be able to be present with other things in life, whether it's a conversation or looking someone in the eyes, or the way that I'm tasting and enjoying food and eating at a slow pace, or, you know, the movement patterns during gait or anything else like that, I'm actually able to be far more present by almost using the process of listening to music as a training ground for presence.

Music is brilliant in that it has an effect on your brain. It very frequently will entrain your brain. Yeah. You know, and when you end up with some sort of hemispheric coherence across your brain, life is different. You see things differently. You perceive things differently. Anybody who's ever tried to transcribe. You know, I studied jazz and was a jazz musician. Anybody who's ever tried to transcribe a Charlie Parker solo who will attest to the fact that you can't blink, you. You have to have uber focus, because every note, every nuance, every subtlety is right there, and it's happening. Happening at a pace that's just ridiculous. So you have to be keenly focused on the present and notice everything. And for me, music impacts emotions so intently, they're. They're almost intrinsically linked for me. So the idea of a morning playlist. Fantastic. I have actually the same sort of thing. Couple of songs that I listen to in the mornings that always pick me up. Some of them. Some of them I do in the morning as a mental exercise just to get myself going. I was on a podcast a while back, and somebody asked me what I was working on, and I said, oh, rap. And I said, what? And it was. It was actually because of the neural rx, right? So I was trying to cement new neurons. And so I. One of my kids had made a joke about, you know, I could never pull this thing off. So I. You know, I said, challenge accepted, and started working on that. And still I will listen to those things in the morning and do things that are very verbally difficult to wake myself up. And I'm.

What do you mean verbally difficult?

So, like, 100 miles and running by a guy named Logic or Concepts 2 by Khan.

Oh, you mean you're listening to verbally complex rap.

Yeah, and actually doing it.

Okay. And you're actually singing?

Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah. So. Yeah, yeah, hop. On my Instagram page, there was one that my. My daughter said, like, no, no way you can do that. And so I did.

I mean, well, it's interesting. Cause, like, I used to listen to, like, growing up, Christian rap because, you know, I grew up in a Christian family, and we go down to the. You know, to the music store, and mom would have me, you know, buy a CD with all my 15 bucks that I earned or, you know, over CDs, how much CDs cost today, I still remember, like, old school, like, DC talk rap tracks that are just, like. They're. They're. They're like cemented in the brain because memory is cued so well by music. And so, like, acting legends, like, yeah, I'm down with the one that's known as the song from the G to the O to the D. Never done in the flow, in the no, on the go Like a Throwing up Show. Because I ain't in the bist for the door to me or the way that I was gonna say because I can't. Or I can't take it home Anyway, you never try with a ride because the Lord is lying. His words are wrong. So, you know. No, no, no, no, I'm all right.

But like, stuff like that, many years ago was that.

Yeah. And that's like, you know, 17 years ago. There you go. Still just like you just filled my brain.

Yeah, that's because it's emotional. Right. Nobody has to tell you to remember the most wonderful part of your favorite movie. You know, anytime you. You want to lock something in and that immediately changes your brain state. I can tell by your face like that.

Yeah.

You know, you're in a totally different state than you were a minute ago.

Right? Exactly. Yeah, it is weird. It kind of. Kind of taps into. In the previous memory as well. You know, it's. I. I feel like we could. I don't know how long we've walked so far. We've. We've probably been walking like an hour and a half or so. But. But anyways, as you. As you guys can tell, we're listening in, hopefully if any of you are still there. Ian's a pretty interesting guy, and gosh, if you combine this with the other episode that I did with him where he went deep on C60, and I would recommend you go back and listen to that one if you like some of the stuff we talked about on this one. It's all a link to that. And I'll link to all the show notes if you go to BenGreenfieldFitness.com Wizard Science, which is all. Well, Wizard Sciences is the name of Ian's company, but the. The short link for this podcast is BenGreenfieldFitness.com Wizardscience because I figured, you know, nice. We're just a couple of wizards walking along a farm road talking about science. So anyways, Wizard Science. And then I'll link to Diane's website later on we'll talk. I'll try and get you guys as I. As I am prone to do. I'll try and twist his arm and get you guys like a little discount code or something you could use on the. On the neural Rx, the Olympic Rx. And. And then what do you think? We'll go punish some brisket tonight. Yeah, let's do it today.

Let's. Let's go do some Sananga and clear our eyes.

Oh, ye. All right, that too. And snort. Snort some hoppe. Do some sonaga and eat some brisket. Sounds like a good night to me. All right, folks, well, until next time, I'm Ben Greenfield with the great Ion Mitchell from tulsa. It's tulsa, oklahoma.

Tulsa, oklahoma.

Tulsa, OKlahoma. Signing out from bengreenfieldfitness.com wizardscience. Have an amazing week.

Oh hey.

And a few events that you can.

Join me at Runga coming up May 12th through the 14th in Austin, Texas. Check it out. Runga. All these you can find@BenGreenfieldLife.com calendar intimate, like VIP type of event. Me and 50 other people that you can join in Austin, Texas May 12th through the 14th also in Austin, Texas. May 10th I'll be opening at a comedy show for my friend Garrett Gunderson over at the Creek in the cave in Austin, Texas. That's Tuesday, May 10th at 7pm if you want to come and see some stand up comedy. I'll also put that over at BenGreenfieldLife.com calendar as well as the Health Optimization Summit coming up May 28th through the 29th in London. And even sooner than that, Paleo FX April 29th through May 1st in Austin. So links and details on any of those are all going to be@BenGreenfieldLife.com calendar if you want to check them out.

More than ever these days, people like you and me need to fresh, entertaining, well informed and often outside the box approach to discovering the health and happiness and hope that we all crave. So I hope I've been able to do that for you on this episode today. If you liked it, or if you love what I'm up to, then please leave me a review on your preferred podcast listening channel, wherever that might be, and just find the Ben Greenfield Life episode. Say something nice. Thanks so much.

Means a lot.

Sam.