The Future Of Biohacking Fitness, Longevity, Recovery & More

My name is Ben Greenfield, and on this episode of the Ben Greenfield Life.

Podcast, I feel like I'm coming down with something. One of the very first things I'm going to do is do the pulsed electromagnetic field therapy, because you think about, like, flooding your body with electrons, it charges the cell membranes, which creates, like a force field that literally protects the cell from invasion of microorganisms. And at the end of 12 minutes, I'd be like, yeah, I no longer feel like I'm getting sick. It's amazing what these therapies do. And I'm so right on the same page with you. This is the medicine of the future.

Faith, family, fitness, health, performance, nutrition, longevity, ancestral living, biohacking, and a whole lot more. Welcome to the show.

All right, folks, my guest on today's podcast is named Beth McDougall, and she's a doctor, an M.D. she's the director of the Integrative Medical Clinic and the Clear center of Health, which serves the San Francisco Bay Area. More interestingly to me at least, she is launching this new cutting edge, kind of like bio optimization biohacking lab that's going to open pretty soon called Jyzen. And she's got all sorts of cool technologies in there that I really want to pick her brain about and hopefully teach you a few things about if you're really into the pointy edge of wellness and longevity and performance. She also has a book. I just got it last week. I haven't read it as thoroughly as I would have wanted to yet, but it's called you pristine Blueprint, and the subtitle is the Missing key to longevity, reversing disease, and radically transforming your life. And one of the things that I noted in my initial read through of the book was Beth's interest in things like energy medicine, resonance technologies, and a lot of the things that sometimes you don't see presented in the context of the logical, rational, scientific, biohacking type of sector. But she does a pretty good job aligning the two, and so I'm excited to talk about that as well. So a little bit more about Beth. She is described in her bio as being an early pioneer in orthomolecular nutritional medicine and European biological medicine, which is pretty cool because I've done some stories, as you guys have heard in the past, about European biological medicine and even taking a small group of my podcast listeners over to Switzerland to go to the Swiss mountain retreat and experience a lot of biological medicine over there. So that's something that's pretty cool. And then she's Also the chief medical officer of Resonance Technologies Group, which is a fund that has companies in it with energetic, diagnostic and healing technologies based on resonance physics, which, if that just went totally over your head, don't worry. I'm sure Beth is going to be clarifying with us what that means, what the intersection of medicine and contemporary physics actually looks like. So, anyways, I think that's enough of an introduction to at least get you a little bit interested in Beth and what she does. So, Beth, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much, Ben. Appreciate being here.

Yeah. And gosh, your medical training with orthomolecular nutritional medicine and European biological medicine combined with your MD seems pretty darn unique. And I would imagine there's a little bit of a story leading up to how you got involved with all of that. So can you tell me about your path in medicine?

Well, even before I went to medical school, I was influenced. I had a really interesting childhood mentor who was a doctor, but he was a interesting thinker. He was like a philosopher and a mystic and really knew a lot about science. And so he opened up my mind early on, and I went into medicine for kind of esoteric reasons. So I learned a lot about, from him about sacred geometry and kind of like the design of the fundamental backdrop of space, like, you know, at the quantum level. And so, you know, my sense at a very early age was that everything derived from this kind of fundamental quantum level and all physical reality was really nothing more than a series of intersecting vibratory patterns. And yet things emerged that had real uniqueness. But there were similar kind of like geometrical patterns and relationships in all of physical reality. And that was never more eloquently, kind of like, you know, described as with the human body. And so I really dove into studying science and just like, you know, the basic sciences like biology and cell biology and, you know, and histology, you know, with that in mind, and kind of was very passionate about kind of like discovering the secrets of the universe inherent in the way we were designed. And then I had some early influences where this mentor of mine, who was so special, developed Parkinson's disease and rapidly deteriorated, both in his mind and in his body. And right at the exact same time, my grandfather, who I was really close to, developed a different neurodegenerative disease called, at the time, it was called the levopontocerebellar atrophy. Now it's called multi system atrophy. But it's where you lose the ability to walk and your mind is fine, but you no longer control your body movements at all. And he couldn't even control his eyes. And his eyes darted back and forth. And he was confined to a hospital bed for years before he died. I just watched him kind of like entrapped in this body, body that he had no longer had command over. And so I watched these two special people in my life, you know, deteriorate. And I just thought like, you know, this has to be preventable. There has to be a way to prevent this or to reverse these diseases when they occur. And so I really dove into, you know, even before I was in, you know, out of medical, you know, out of residency, I dove into studying integrative medicine and nutritional biochemistry and started getting into European biological medicine at that time, got into functional medicine. I was one of the first graduating classes in functional medicine after residency. I was very much an integratively oriented person. And my very first job out of internal medicine residency was to work at the San Francisco preventive Medical Group. So I started right out of the gate working in an integrative setting, But I was still working mostly on a physical level and looking for ways to unwind complex illnesses like neurodegenerative diseases and as, you know, bioidentical hormone, balancing natural neurotransmitter, balancing a lot of gut work, a lot of detoxification of heavy metals and other types of toxins, nutritional supplementation and whatnot. And then I realized that was helping people quite a bit, but it wasn't fully unwinding things and it wasn't enough. And so then I got into studying, you know, kind of more how to help people resolve traumas and, you know, childhood traumas, and kind of work more on a psycho spiritual level, so to speak, you know, in addition to the physical level. And that kind of took the healing work up a whole nother notch. And I still wasn't fully satisfied. And then I ended up getting Lyme disease myself. That was back in 2004. And I actually was placed in the hospital, had a multi thousand dollar workup because I seen a patient one day and I all of a sudden couldn't move my hand. And then I realized that I couldn't move my foot properly and my tongue wasn't moving properly. I thought I was having a stroke. I went into the hospital and they did this huge workup and basically I left without an. But I knew that I'd been camping a couple weeks earlier, so I drew my blood before I left for the hospital, and then two weeks later it came back positive for Lyme disease. So that kind of began this interesting journey for me that actually took a good eight years of unwinding that. And in so doing, I really dove into studying energetic energy medicine. That was working, of course, on a physical level with oxidative therapies and herbs and homeopathy and trying, tried a little antibiotic stint that didn't work at all.

And technically, by the way, you're probably still doing energy medicine. You just didn't really realize it because obviously a lot of those modalities you were already using are based upon theories of energy medicine.

Yeah, totally. Yeah. But then I really got into deeply studying energetic diagnostics, energetic therapeutics, and kind of more energetic medicine. Just that you can do yourself in meditation. And then that brought me to studying with a teacher who was a physician originally from Poland, heavily steeped in European biological medicine, Thomas Schultz. He lives and practices in New York. And I went back and forth to New York from San Francisco every month for years studying with him. And I met the physicist Nassim Harriman and got really deeply immersed in unified field physics. And then I became the chief medical officer of Resonant Technologies Group, which is this holding company and fund that funds companies that have technologies based in resonance physics. And then that began a journey that literally took me around the world, where I got to meet with, like, the brightest minds around the world working, you know, engineers and physicists and doctors and inventors and people that were, you know, just, just came in with like, kind of an otherworldly understanding about how the universe works and that we're inventing technologies for health and, and also technologies for the environment and things. It was there, there. They, they span, you know, outside of the health sectors. But I was mostly involved in the health technologies. And then, and then, and then I became an early adopter because of this of all kind of like what's becoming popular in the biohacking space of these energetic technologies. I kind of early on really realized we're all part of this field of energy and information. We should let the components of the field be our medicine. I started working with photobiomodulation treatments long time ago and have had the novaclore bed in my office for a long time now. We have three of them at JASON Labs, which I'll tell you about. Then I got into working with pulse electromagnetic field devices and I had the Hockett in my clinic, which was like an infrared ozone sauna that has a powerful pimp device associated with it. And then you also, while you're in there, you put your feet on these plates that deliver frequencies into the body. So I became very, very interested in treating the body with energetic signatures. And you might be like, well, what's that? You know? But like, every single thing in life, you know, whether it's a magnesium atom or whether it's mercury or strep bacteria or, you know, l. Tryptophan. No matter what it is, every single thing is what it is because it has a particular energetic information signature associated with it that allows it to, you know, kind of precipitate from this field of energy and information that we live within. But that energetic information signature can actually be measured by particular devices. And so you can treat somebody with the thing, the physical molecule, or you can treat someone with the energetic signature of the molecule. And both will interact at the receptor sites in the same way. So really, in the end, what's going on between, like, a molecule and a receptor is a vibratory interaction. And so I got into using information signatures for treating various things. For example, in that pocket I was telling you about, when you're in there, you have your feet on plates and you can dial in.

By the way, I've been in one of those before. It's pretty epic. I think the first time I used one, I slept for a couple hours afterwards because I think the one I used was in New York City. And you had the PEMF going through the feet. But then, of course, the ozone and the sauna, as I'm prone to do, they asked me how high to turn it up, and I just said, turn it up all the way. Blast me off to space. So, man, it just sucks me dry. But then you feel amazing once you kind of recover from the protocol. But, yeah, some of the things that occur when you stack certain modalities like that. Like, what's that one stacking? Like grounding, Earthing, pemf, ozone. What else is in there?

So, yeah, you're in the chamber, and it's an infrared sauna. And then first it puts carbonic acid into the chamber for three minutes. And carbonic acid just dilates your peripheral blood vessels and kind of the pores of your skin so that then it switches to ozone delivery, and you absorb a lot more ozone transdermally than you would otherwise. And then while you're in there, you've got the PEMF device. And that's, like you said, earthing on steroids, because, you know, you're just flooding the body with electrons, and that's really working to charge the cell membranes. And, you know, your Cell membranes are like a battery. And if you look at the collective charge on your 37 trillion cells, you know, that's 3.5 trillion volts of electricity when you have a fully charged system. And so that's critical. And you know, we used to absorb a lot more electrons through our feet as we were walking barefoot on the ground and sleeping on the ground and just spending a lot more time outside. And now we have rubber soled shoes and we're not doing that. And so we're getting so energetically depleted.

And I think that the hocat's like a perfect example of how you're kind of like recharging the body's energy battery. Your introduction to your intriguing path, like all the different things that you studied, resonance and the mathematics behind nature and health and the human body, the blueprint of the body and dissonance and a lot of the things that you talk about in the book. Normally if I were talking to somebody who was just writing about this stuff, I would say, oh, what's resonance? What's dissonance? What do you mean when you say energy medicine? But because you're kind of so boots on the ground and messing around with all these devices, I think I'd love to reverse engineer this. And kind of like we were just talking about with the hocat, talk about some of the other devices and protocols that you want to put into this new bio optimization labs that you're creating. And then I was thinking perhaps we could kind of explain the mechanism. Mechanism via which they're working. And that way you use illustrative examples to kind of show people what the future of fitness, what the future of medicine or recovery or anti aging might look like using some of these devices. So the hocats obviously won. And just to close the loop on the hocat, fill me in because I've been in it a few times, just randomly at different biohacking facilities or whatever. There's even one over in London that I went to called Abella Labs, where you actually were riding a stationary bicycle inside a hocat like device, which is interesting because they even had it in the exercise component. And I think that might have been a custom built device. But anyways, this hocat, how often and for what reasons are people actually using something like that?

I'd say one to two times a week is ideal. Like I was saying before, you can then dial in the frequencies to support whatever health goals you have. And most people like to do detox. And so you're dialing in frequencies that support elimination of toxins through the liver, kidneys, lymphatics, you can do whatever. Like if you have prostate cancer, you can kind of support that process. Or Epsom, you can support that. But like, if you're really. Most people are really interested in detox and that's why it can kind of kick your butt. Because it's like eight to ten times more powerful than like a regular infrared sauna. You really detoxify and that's why people don't like to do it every day, you know, so it's like one or two times a week. I kind of wrap that into a protocol because then you're eliminating all these toxins that are creating dissonance in the system. Because like I said, everything has a signature. And some signatures are like static, you know, they're not like noise in the system that's really not in harmony with what you're kind of orchestra and how it should be. So it's really disrupting things. So. Yeah. So then JAIS and labs opened on Monday. So two days ago. Three days ago.

Congratulations. And by the way, where's it at? Where's it located in case people want to visit?

It's waterfront right on the San Francisco Bay, but it's on the Marin side, so across the the Golden Gate Bridge, right between Sausalito and Mill Valley. Like as I'm talking to you, I'm looking out on the bay and there's just like tons of birds out there. It's just beautiful. So we moved it over here because I had my clinic for 20 years in downtown Mill Valley. I jammed so much tech in there because I've just been like, I kind of learn about a new device, be like, oh, I want to incorporate that and I want that. And we're just kind of running out of space in our 3,500 square foot facility. So we moved over to an 18,000 square foot facility on the bay here. We moved my clinic clear center over here. And it's got the medical practice of myself and Dr. Brooke Bennis, who's like a regenerative medicine specialist for the joints and structure. And then Dr. Alexa Henderson, who's an internist that does like integrative cancer care and like, you know, a lot of integrate general integrative medicine. And Dr. Drew Sinatra, who is a naturopath that does general kind of integrative naturopathic medicine. And so we've got all of our medical practices. But then we started this huge bio optimization facility. And so we've got like a 12 chair IV department overlooking the Bay that's got these nap pods that are super cool that you can just literally close up and kind of have a private meditative experience. And we do like NAD IVs, methylene blue IVs, we do ozone IV, ozone, ultraviolet, blood irradiation, metal detox, nutrient IVs, sports recovery IVs, like, you name it. You know, like I've been doing intravenous medicine for 25 years. And then we have, you know, a lot of injectable peptides and the full blood laboratory. And then we have this suite of technologies. So we've got two hockets and three Novothor beds, the red light beds, which are just, that's my favorite. I love, love, love the novothor. And I'm sure you've probably talked with people about that before. But the photobiomodulation is, is extraordinary. It's where you're using red and near infrared light for a short period of time.

Yeah, and by the way, I use these joovv lights. Then I have another headborne one called the V light. But the Nova Thor is basically like a very powerful bed that one lies on. Similar to a tanning bed, right?

It looks like a tanning bed. Yeah, but it's not. And it doesn't have any UV light that it's delivering. It's just delivering red and near infrared. And those particular wavelengths of light have very specific effects in the body. So the red and near infrared light have been shown to activate the mitochondria by virtue of liberating cytochrome C oxidase, which is the terminal enzyme in the electron transport chain that can get blocked by nitric oxide. And that gets blocked in various disease states and even in general aging, but very commonly blocked in cancer, neurodegenerative diseases, chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia. So the red light and near infrared light will literally kick nitric oxide off, that final enzyme in the electron transport chain which liberates that to kind of fully produce energy again. So your electron transfer chain will run oxygen and glucose through a series of enzymatic steps to produce ATP, which is the energy currency of the body. You need full energy production to have a healthy cell and therefore a healthy body. And when the energy production goes down, all metabolism goes awry. And that's when you start developing not only disease, but biological aging. What the red light near infrared light can actually do is reverse that. And it's also been shown to reduce inflammatory intermediates, so kind of reduce pain and inflammation, produce more tissue specific growth factors. It's really important for healing and repair and even speeding up recovery after a big workout. It's actually even been shown to enhance muscle gains if you do it before you work out.

Yeah. I was actually looking at a recent study, I think I just mentioned on yesterday's podcast about photobiomodulation before Wingate power cycling protocol. And this was as little as five minutes in terms of the effects on increased time to exhaustion, increased or not increased time to exhaustion, increased power on the Wingate protocol. So there's a lot of stuff that the photobiomodulation does for you. And I actually use it frequently. One question I like to ask people who use it in their practice is, do you agree that there's kind of a law of diminishing returns? You could use it so excessively that you create excessive reactive oxygen species or free radicals? Because I've heard the Sweet spot's around 20 minutes a day, but I don't know if that's based on any prevailing literature.

It is. Yeah. No, it's completely well studied. And it's like a bell shaped curve. If you don't do it long enough, you don't get the benefit. And if you do it too long, you definitely start to stress the body and get diminishing returns. So there's like a. It's like a bell shaped curve and it's between 12 and 20 minutes per day. If you do it in that right sweet zone, the effects you can see are extraordinary. They're like not short of extraordinary. I gashed my forehead open. Like I got this like vertical slash in my forehead and it was almost a full skin thickness tear. And I was like, well, that sucks because I have to give a talk in one week in front of a live audience. Was like one of the first live audience talks post Covid. And then it was also going to be live streamed to thousands. And I'm like, well, that really sucks. And then I just was like, well, oh yeah, I have the Novothor. So I went in the Novothor every day and I would photograph the cut like in the morning and then after, at the end of the day, after going in the nova floor, and literally you could watch it healing in real time. It was extraordinary. By the time I gave the doc, you couldn't even see it.

Now it's my impression that the methylene blue that you mentioned actually pairs pretty well with infrared light because the photons of light that kind of activate the methylene blue and cause the mitochondrial optimization that occurs after that. And you mentioned that you're actually doing methylene blue on IVs, how do those work? And are you kind of like combining those with the red light?

Yes, absolutely, yeah. Doing the iv, but also orally. I mean, it's sometimes easier to do it orally. In the electron transport chain in the mitochondria, you've got, like I said, a series of enzymatic steps. And the methylene blue is working on some of the earlier enzymes and kind of like upregulating their function as well as the final enzyme, cytochrome C oxidase. And then the. The red light is working on the cytochrome C oxidase. So they pair, they synergize beautifully. So it's really good for stimulating mitophagy, which is like the editing and repair of damaged mitochondria and kind of birthing of new mitochondria, just improving cellular respiration, which is really kind of one of the things that you're all about, I gather, is really like kind of optimizing physical performance. And I think we got to start at a cellular level in order to do that.

Yeah. And for the methylene blue iv, are you actually putting methylene blue into the veins?

Yeah.

Interesting. And is that safe?

Yes, yes. It's in every single emergency department across the world because it's a really commonly used medication for methemoglobinemia. So for poisonings that deform the hemoglobin molecule and make it unable to carry oxygen properly, certain toxins and poisons will cause that. If you were brought to an emergency room with that, they would just immediately hook up a methylene blue IV at much lower doses. We don't use the same dosing there. Again, it's like one of those bell shaped curve things. It can be toxic if you use too much, so it's very specific to body weight. But when you use the appropriate dose, you can just optimize mitochondrial function. And it's really important for people that have, let's say, early cognitive decline or mild Alzheimer's or some other neurodegenerative disease. And then of course, it's. It's important for optimizing the mitochondria everywhere, like in the muscles and elsewhere.

Yeah. Okay, so we got methylene blue, we've got the novothor device, another one I wanted to ask you about. I'm sure there's some others in addition to those two and the hocap. The folks who introduced me to you were the people who make one device that I actually use quite a bit. Actually. I have two devices that if I were to need to just throw out all my exercise equipment and only keep a couple that I would consider to be the most efficient biohacking modalities. If you were to send me to a desert island, I'd just take a kettlebell. But let's just say we're focusing on the sexy cool stuff right now. It would be this machine called an arx, which is a single set to failure super duper slow strength training routine that just kicks your butt in 15 minutes. I've only had one for six weeks, but I am just piling on muscle and my strength levels are massive. And I' working out like 45 minutes a week with weights. I do other stuff, I walk, I play tennis. And then I also use this machine that's right next to my arx three times a week for 21 minutes. And I have hooked up next to it one of these oxygen devices that it's called a live O2. So it allows you to do what's called exercise with oxygen training, switching back and forth from hypoxia to hyperoxia. And this one's called a Vasper. And that just makes me feel like I've gone on a three hour run again, a very short period of time. And it's incredible.

It's mind blowing, isn't it?

Yeah. Can you describe it to folks?

Okay, so we have six Vasper devices and some have Liv 02 hooked up. And Vasper is where you're in this recumbent device that's kind of like an elliptical. You're pushing with your hands and feet separately. And then while you're doing that, you're hooked up to these inflation cuffs, compression cuffs around your upper thighs and your upper arms.

Very similar to what people might be familiar with as BFR training, blood flow restriction training.

Right. And then cold liquid is going into the compression cup. So it's like cryogenic liquid. What's really nice about their compression is it's kind of like a large surface area and it's more compressing like the peripheral circulation. It's not like tight enough and kind of like targeted enough to compress the deeper veins. But when you compress the surface circulation, you start to build up lactic acid in the muscle cells faster. And so then the lactic acid buildup kind of triggers the benefits of an anabolic workout. So in 21 minutes you're doing this kind of interval training and you're getting the benefits of like a two hour workout in 21 minutes. And it's like aerobic and anaerobic and that Buildup of lactic acid is triggering anabolic hormone production. So they've actually got really good data on boosting testosterone levels in a various different populations. You know, just from doing Vasper, boosting growth hormone. And so I'm not surprised you're putting on tons of muscle with the ARX and then the Vasper combination because the Vasper is probably optimizing your hormone balance that really is helping you with the muscle gains with the arx. Our ARX isn't here yet, but that we're going to have full ARX set up here as well.

Okay, cool. Yeah, that'll be a really like in terms of 1, 2 combo for the cardiovascular plus the strength, I think the Vasper plus the Arx, it's gold standard. And one other thing with the Vasper, I didn't really realize this until after I started using it is because you're barefoot on the device and your feet are kind of up against these. I think they're copper plates on the foot pads. I could be mistaken about the alloy used in those. You're grounded or earthed when you're using it as well. And so you kind of feel this big anti inflammatory grounding effect. And so it's a fantastic device. And then this liveo2 that you mentioned, the way that I like to use it is a warm up in hypoxia, meaning there's a little switch on the live O2 that allows you to decrease the amount of available oxygen delivered through a mask that you're wearing on your face. And then when I get to the intense intervals on the Vasper, like an example of a workout on the Vasper would be a 5 minute warmup, 830 second sprints with a minute recovery in between each. What I'll do is for all the recovery periods in the warmup I'll be in hypoxia. And then for the high intensity exercise intervals, I'll flip to full oxygen, like hyperoxia, flood the muscles with oxygen and then flip back to having to recover in hypoxia. And the cool thing is back when I interviewed liveo2, they explained this to me. There's this big surge of oxygen to neural tissue as well. Kind of like the BDNF and the vascular endothelial growth factor that kind of gets into the brain post exercise. What this does is actually it causes oxygen to increase that uptake and also to just saturate the muscles, particularly the brain, with oxygen. So you feel like this level of alertness in addition to libido from the Testosterone and of course the fact that you've worked the muscles really hard but because you have the blood flow restriction on, there's not a lot of inflammation or damage that occurs. And man, that Vasper with the Live O2, it's a game changer as far as amping up fitness levels super quickly.

It's truly like the most incredible kind of like stacking of technologies in one device. And the health benefits that I see are incredible as well. So it's like great for peak performance and just anti aging, but it's also really good for people with brain injury. We have a full neuroscience department here and the Vasper is really at a critical component with Live O2, critical component for brain healing in people with like post traumatic brain injury, you know, post concussion syndrome. You know, we have the ethos of a laboratory here and so we actually have become kind of like, you know, like a headquarters for Vasper and we're really going to be doing a lot of studies to data drive this whole kind of bio optimization facility here.

I was going to ask you, by the way, speaking of oxygen and feel free to finish that what you were going to say. I realize I just interrupted you but, but I do want to make sure I give you a chance to hit on this cell error thing that you're using because that one's a new one. I noticed it on your website.

I'm most passionate about that right now. It's cell gym. All I was going to say on the end of Vasper is when you're putting it with Lipo 2, what I'm learning is one of the most powerful. Well, when you look at biohacking and this whole area, it's like a lot of them are really geared toward improving cellular energy production. Right? So you've got, you know, you're working with technologies that upregulate mitochondrial function and enhance like mitophagy and you know, editing of damaged mitochondria and birthing of new so that you can have better ATP production and you know, the red light does that. But also working with kind of fluxing oxygen and adapting the body to different oxygen environments is like an incredible biohacking tool. And you can do that with live O2 with exercise, but you can also do it with this technology called celgem. And Celgem is where you're lying in a zero gravity chair and you're breathing through a mask and you do a 40 minute session and during that session the coach cycles you through normal levels of oxygen and then hypoxia and then normal levels of oxygen and hypoxia. And you do four cycles in a 40 minute session. And it's really like comfortable. You don't feel any stress in your body when you're doing it. You kind of just lie there and you go into a deep meditative state. I think the hypoxia facilitates kind of like an altered state slightly. So it's a very cool experience. But the data on this is like, literally mind blowing. I am so blown away on how much clinical data there is, how much like, you know, kind of like basic science data there is. In fact, in 2018, three scientists won the Nobel Prize for discovering why it works. You know, so they discovered HIF1 Alpha. HIF, and it stands for hypoxia inducing factor alpha. And that rises up in Celgem and I think it also probably does in the Liveo 2 with exercise. But the HIF1 Alpha is like a master gene regulator. And so it will trigger the transcription of 100 different genes and will raise the levels of erythropoietin, which will go to the bone marrow and cause you to make more red blood cells. It will raise vegf, which will cause you to sprout new capillaries. You can have better blood delivery to the tissues. It will enhance the sensitivity of insulin independent proteins called glutes that transfer glucose from your bloodstream into your cells, so the glucose can be converted into energy. And it will enhance the coupling of oxygen with the first enzyme in the electron transport chain. So it's been shown to enhance energy production. Also it's been shown to enhance autophagy, mitophagy. And then so that's the basic science research, but the clinical research is literally like, extraordinary. Like you've been shown to reverse metabolic syndrome, to reverse diabetes. It's been shown to help and sometimes reverse bronchial asthma and chronic obstructive pulmonary diseases. It's been shown to be helpful for cognitive decline for neurodegenerative diseases like autoimmune diseases even, because it's been shown to be immunomodulatory. It's a really powerful tool to have in a medical facility. And athletes have known about it for decades. You know, like, like, I guess that there was a point in like the mid-1900s where they had an Olympic Games in Mexico City and athletes around the world that didn't, didn't train and live at altitude realized they had to go to altitude to train in order to compete in those Olympic Games. And, and so, you know, it's Been kind of like a secret with Olympic athletes and you know, professional athletes for forever, you know, to train at altitude because then when you come down to sea level you're like man. Right. And then also Special forces. Special forces. And then in the early, like mid, like 1900s, they did it with fighter pilots like where they would like take them up to altitude to acclimate and you know, so that they could perform better, you know, when flying. And I know we're going to dial these in even better because we're data driving this whole process here. But what like a cool stack is to have someone come in and do Novapore for 12 to 20 minutes, then hop in our Mechotek cryo chamber for up to three minutes and then go over to the Vasper room and do a Vasper and then go to the Celgem and do a 40 minute celgem session and then don't eat until 120 minutes later. So you try to do all of that stuff while you're intermittent fasting and then eat. And it's just an incredible stack.

This cell gym. It appears that you're just laying in this gravity chair and you're shifting between normoxia and hypoxia. Couldn't you use the Liveo 2? I'm just thinking about if I could go out to my gym. I don't have a cell gym but could I just put the LiveO2 unit on and just using my switch on that, flip it from hyperoxia to hypoxia and cycle through some of that while I'm reading a book or something like that.

You definitely could. And you know, but here with the celgem like we're following O2 sats and you know, just really precisely looking at someone and we're monitoring them like as they're going through it, making you know, there's a governor. Obviously we're not going to let their O2 sat go too low but like we're going to kind of watch and you know, keep them within like this sweet zone. And it doesn't take much hypoxia. It's like mild Hypoxia still triggers HIF1 alpha. So it's pretty cool.

Wow. Well, I mean just between the Vasper and the Celgem and the Hocats and the Novothor, those four alone are pretty powerful modalities to have in a facility. And then of course like you mentioned, you have the peptides and the IVs and the injections. But one thing I wanted to ask you about back to this bioresonance is based on what you've learned in medicine about sound wave therapy and electromagnetic therapy and energy medicine. Are you incorporating that into the labs in any specific way?

So, like I was saying earlier, I've just, you know, when I kind of started really, really, and I started actually understanding this back in the late 1990s, that everything has an energetic signature and you can produce the same effect from the signature as you can from the thing itself, you know, from the molecule. And so that's really informed my thinking over my whole career, really. And then, you know, when I dove into physics and I really started, I wrote this book, your pristine blueprint. It was, it was kind of this sense of like, you know, we all, we're all part of this one thing, you know, this, this unified field of energy and information. And we all, everything emerges as a unique manifestation out of this field. And not only that, but matter is forming and annihilating every trillionth of a second. I get flickering in and out of existence and reforming, like, and when you think about like a 37 trillion cell organism, each with like billions of chemical reactions happening every second in a coordinating manner, and then it's flickering in and out of existence. Like, how, how, how on earth is that happening? It's like, you know, so I really kind of started theorizing, and it's not all my own thinking because it's kind of a, like a, you know, dovetailing a little bit on like morphogenic field theory and all of that. But it's like, you know, that there is a blueprint that forms at the moment of our conception, that becomes the template and, you know, the orchestrating influence of this complex physiology of ours. We're emerging, you know, from the field through this, you know, based on this blueprint. And then our physiology is, is being orchestrated by this. And when the communication between the blueprint and the physical form is happening seamlessly, we have phenomenal health. And when it gets contaminated with misinformation and there's a lot of static on the radio in the system, that's like disrupting, kind of like the perfect translation of this blueprint. That's when you start developing entropy, aging, breakdown, disease. And so one of the huge components of like, you know, what we're doing here is we are doing this bioresonance, biofeedback work. And so we're able to hook people up to electrodes and measure aberrant frequencies in the body. So like, you know, signature energetic signatures that are associated with toxins and by.

The way, how are you measuring those? Like I asked that because I've used devices like the AO scan, which is an electrical signature measuring device that also produces a frequency emanated by a computer or a phone that measures via a headset that's kind of worn right behind the ears. I've done other devices where you're holding on to a couple of handles and it's putting a frequency through the body through both handles, and delivering the results to a computer screen based on that. So this bioresonance signaturing that you're doing it at Jazen Labs, what exactly is the measurement like?

Yeah, so you're getting hooked up to electrodes and then those are connected to a computer that's reading the signatures and then we are projecting back corrective signatures. And you can project corrective signatures back through various means. You can project through plasma devices, you can project through scalar technology, you can project through ultrasound, you can project through electrodes, and we do all of that, but we have like really cutting edge scalar technology that we're doing it primarily through. And that is, it's like a biofeedback. So you'll measure the aberrant signatures, send back corrective signatures, measure again, and you keep kind of like doing this deeper and deeper dive of kind of biofeedback to bring balance to the situation. And if you do that in combination with all the other things we just talked about and like a deep dive medical work where like someone comes in with like a health issue and I'm doing regular testing and diagnosing infections and treating them on a physical level, well, you still often need to clear the energetic signatures out of the system in order to restore perfect resonance with the blueprint. Because it's really all at the end of the day boiling down to information. And is the information correct or not, that is kind of dictating the physical form and the orchestration of the physiology, is it the proper information or is it contaminated with misinformation? And does your computer have a virus? Right. So it's like trying to remove the misinformation to restore the perfect kind of orchestration in the system. So I think when you do that and then you optimize mitochondrial function, you adapt perfectly the organism to oxygen environment, so they can most perfectly utilize oxygen and you replenish nutrients that are missing and you balance hormones, you're going to have a highly functional organism.

Yeah, well, the way that people feel when they do this, like if you were to do a scan and you were to Find out that someone has certain levels of dissonance and then you're exposing them to these corrective signatures transmitted back into their body. Is that like one and done? Do you just do it, Find out what's wrong, get the treatment and you're good to go. Or how often do you need to do something like this?

Yeah, kind of depends on what they come in with. Like, but you know, again, I'm a medical doctor, so like some like, for example, like I had a young guy that had mono. And sometimes cases of mono are so bad it really goes into the liver and it causes jaundice. And like, you know, like the skin turns yellow, the eyes turn yellow, and the lymph nodes are so huge.

And.

And it was like, do we put him in the hospital? Do we not? You know, and so we put him in that and he was better by the end of the day. I have to be careful what I say, but you know, you can support the resolution of the viruses, you know, in that setting and really quickly help bring someone back into balance. And then I'm not going to tell you that I treat cancer with a device like this, but like, you know, it's a supportive part of the whole picture. Right? So like, if someone has cancer, they may do this repeatedly, repeatedly, repeatedly to get to the root cause of why they developed the cancer in the first place, as well as support the resolution of the cancer as well as remove obstacles to the immune system. And so just I've had a lot of cancer patients find it to be very, very helpful.

Yeah, well, I mean, as a guy who's also in the supplements industry.

And will certainly allow for certain pharmaceuticals in my medicine cabinet. But I really tend to like Nikola Tesla's saying that if you want to find the secrets of the universe, then think in terms of energy and frequency and vibration. And increasingly when people in my family get sick or my friends get hurt or injured or I'm feeling down, I'm getting to the point where 90% of what I do is energy medicine. What I mean by that is I'm using the biocharger. I'm using photon packets of light via infrared light therapy, the V light, other forms of red and natural light therapy. I'm using ozone quite a bit. I'm using PEMF extensively, along with sound healing tables and sound technologies. Light sound stimulating machines like the braintap or magnetic wearables like the hap B or haptic signaling wearables like the Apollo. When you step back and look at it, it's pretty Shocking how effective energy medicine can be. And I don't want to play conspiracy theorist here, but I. I suspect that the pharmaceutical lobbying and pharmaceutical interests have overshadowed what I would consider to be a more powerful and possibly safer form of medicine. And that would be energy medicine based on some of these resonance principles that you've been talking about. So I'm right on board with you. I mean, it's a staple in my own routine.

Same here. If I feel like I'm coming down with something, one of the very first things I'm going to do is do the pulsed electromagnetic field therapy. Yeah. Because you think about, like, flooding your body with electrons, it charges the cell membranes, which creates, like, a force field, you know, that literally protects the cell from invasion of microorganisms. And I literally will feel like I'm getting sick. I hop in the pimp, just the pimp part of the hocket. If I don't have time to take my clothes off and do a whole session. And at the end of 12 minutes, I'd be like, yeah, I no longer feel like I'm getting sick. So it's amazing what these therapies do. And I'm so right on the same page with you. This is the medicine of the future. And what's like, we're derived from this field of energy and information. Let's let the field be our medicine.

I totally agree. Now, tell me about this Resonance Technologies Group, because it looks like you've got some interesting companies in your portfolio, possibly some ones we haven't actually talked about on this podcast. But what are you doing with Resonance Technologies Group?

Oh, my gosh. Well, it's a really cool thing. So one of the companies is called Source Wave. It developed a technology that can both measure the energetic signature of a molecule and then imprint that energetic signature into a substrate. And this company uses patches, so it will imprint the signatures of sometimes like, 30, 40, 50 different molecules for a particular situation. So they have, like, a patch for relieving inflammatory pain, and they have a patch for relieving kind of nerve pain. They have a patch for enhancing sleep. And these would be kind of energetic signatures of naturally occurring natural products that are helpful for sleep. But, you know, like, when you're taking certain natural things for sleep, sometimes you wake up and you feel a little hungover or something. You know, this is the type of thing where you just pull the patch off and it's gone within a minute. So you put it on, it works immediately, and then when you take it off, it's done. And There's a patch for focus. I'm wearing one right now. I love it. It's so great.

Are they like little. Little round, sticky patches? Because I think I've worn one of those before. You put them, like at the base of the spine.

You can put them anywhere. Like, if you. The pain patch, you want to put it on the area that you're actually experiencing the pain. And then the sleep patch, I usually just put like, you know, my solar plexus or something. And yeah, so there's a whole line of different patches. And. And they, they. Then other companies will white label these. So our. One of our, you know, what, you know, products that are in the market is it through a company called Vibrance. And Vibrance has one for pain, one for sleep, and one for peace, like, you know, or kind of anti anxiety. And they're gonna. They're gonna be putting out the Focus patch any day now. And I'm telling you, that is a game changer. I just love that patch so much.

Do they actually work, though? I mean, like, do they have research behind these? Because, you know, sometimes some of these things, you're like, oh, this is what some freak at a health fair is gonna walk up and slap on me and then do like a balance test or some kind of muscle test on me versus, like actual research. Have they actually looked into it at all?

All the pain patches have been studied with like, infrared thermal imaging, you know, and show like, diminished inflammation and kind of heat signatures in the body. There's a lot of studies in the pipeline that are planned, that are planning to be done, but they just have already taken off through word of mouth because, like, they're really big with, like, professional golfers, for example, professional basketball players. Like, they absolutely work so well. Like, they're. There was a one year a couple years ago where I'm really bad with sports figure names, but someone, like, was at the golf tournament and like, jumped up and then, like, like when he landed, he kind of twisted his ankle, but he hadn't finished the tournament yet. And he went into the tent and they just slapped it up with these pain patches and he was able to finish the tournament and do really well. So, yeah, so then it just like viral took off and all the golfers and, you know, and that's kind of how it goes. There's like. So they sell incredibly well, and they have like, this remarkable, like, never been seen before in the supplement industry. Reorder rate. Like, when someone buys the patch, they tend to buy it again and again. And again, because it works like I've worn, I like one of my Achilles heels because I do a lot and my mind is always so active. Is this my sleep? I get my sleep is one if I, you know, when I'm imbalance, it's the first thing to go off. So I wear a sleep patch almost every night and it's almost completely corrected my sleep.

I'll have to check these things out, you said. So can you go to Source Wave and find them?

No, you go to Vibrance, Amazon, for example. Vibrance, yeah. And I track my sleep with an OURA ring and it really enhances deep sleep, which by the way, all of these technologies do, which is so cool. Novothor enhances Vasper. Whoa. Totally. Enhances Celgem. Enhances deep sleep. Just anecdotally, in my personal experience, Vibrance.

Is spelled V I B R A N T S V Y B R A N T S V Y B R A N T S. Okay, I'll find it on Amazon. And by the way, if people want the show notes for everything we're talking about, just go to BenGreenfieldLife.com FutureOfitness it's BenGreenfieldLife.com Futureofitness you could check out some of the things we're talking about. What else do you have in the portfolio for Resonance Technologies Group?

Well, Resonance also funded an immunotherapy company and this is probably the one I'm the most involved in and I just am super excited about. And this is where we acquired this product. We did not invent it, but this was invented by Dr. Anton Mayer, who was the inventor of the modern day smallpox vaccine that eradicated smallpox off the face of the earth. And in the day when people were getting smallpox vaccines, it was noticed that oftentimes they would get better from other things that ailed them. Like if they had a chronic infection that would go away, if they had an autoimmune disease, sometimes that would get better. And so he devoted the latter part of his career to discovering why that was and found that all of the inactivated pox family viruses, so when killed, like used in an inactivated state had this kind of like full scale immunomodulatory effect in animals and humans. And so it would like kind of balance, bring balance to this, like, you know, huge orchestra of different intermediates like you know, pro inflammatory and anti inflammatory and immune stimulatory and immune dampening intermediates. Like you have the, this whole kind of orchestra going and a lot of immune deficits and autoimmunity kind of result from having like imbalances in all these little intermediates. Anyway, so we acquired this product. He was never able to bring it out in humans before he died and he did in animals. And you know, this is like known in the veterinary community. And there's a product that's being used today, but we acquired the rights to it and have like, you know, kind of continued the research clinically on this product and in the laboratory. And now we're at the point where we're about to partner with a biotech partner and let them to kind of take it through phase 1, 2, 3 clinical trials. So it's really, really exciting, interesting.

And so. So it's called Immunocor.

Yeah. And the concept of why it fits under the resonance science protocol, you know, portfolio is that it in resonance with just the way that nature functions. It's like instead of it being like, you know, this like coming in and suppressing one, you know, inflammatory intermediate or blocking a receptor or you know, like killing something, it's more like working with the kind of innate intelligence of the body and the like overall orchestration of.

The entire immune system, which something like a vaccine wouldn't do because you're really targeting just the innate rather than the adaptive immune system response. What you're saying is that this might be something that more naturally stimulates the immune system?

Yeah, this is working with the innate immune system and you don't make antibodies to it, so it's not affecting adaptive immunity at all. And so when the COVID era hit, we were like, wow, this is really the ticket because, you know, the innate immune system is what is going to help you in the early stages, would keep the virus at bay and maybe keep it completely, even resolve it completely before adaptive immunity even kicks in, you know, and then it's the innate immune system that would help no matter what variant you're exposed to or how much, you know, antigenic drift there is with the virus or, you know, so it's like my whole spiel from the beginning was like, we need to be focusing on upregulating innate immunity. One of the other companies in the portfolio is Sonify. And Sonify is again kind of on this notion of energetic signatures. Sonify developed a technology can measure energetic information signatures in the human voice. And so literally from a 30 second voice print that you just record record on your cell phone, it can tell you extraordinary things about your health. And there is a lot of research that's been done with the Sonify technology. But like, you know, because everything has an energetic signature and then because every cell in your body is hooked up to the autonomic nervous system and the vocal cords are, you know, very much hooked into like the vagus nerve and the autonomic nervous system. Literally when you're speaking, there's like balloon, like packets of data coming out in your voice that you can measure and we can detect disease states. And then one of the first applications of this that's out right now is Omitone. Omitone is an app that's, you know, we're not like quote, diagnosing anything, but you can talk, you can kind of get data about your hydration status, your stress level, your sleep quality, and then really cool for athletes, your muscles, it's very specific about your.

And this is all based on your.

Voice signature, 30 second voice print. You can say, oh my TFL on the left is very tight. Or you can talk in the phone, then you can hit the ground and do 30 push ups. Talk in the phone again and it will show the stress that your pectoralis muscles just experience from that.

Oh my gosh. It's called the Sonify.

Sonify is the parent company. Omitone is an app that's now available that you can start using. And like for example, this Jaizen Labs here we're above and we partnered with Club of Exia. So Club of Exia is this just gorgeous fitness facility right on the bay. And they have just top of the line equipment and gorgeous yoga rooms and then more active cycling rooms and hiit classes and kettlebell classes on these decks that wrap around the building. And anyway, we brought the Club of Exia founders into our cap table here at Jaizen so that we're all doing this together. And so a lot, you know, Club of Exe members are coming upstairs and using the bio optimization facility as well as my patients and the other doctors, patients and people off the street because we like, you know, on the bay you get a lot of the cycling community and the triathletes and all the, you know, the Ironmans and you know, the, all the, all the athletes over here. So they're all kind of, kind of coming by the place. And the, this Omitone app is made available to like all of the like gym members downstairs and then all the people up here. And people are loving it because they can be like, oh God, I better not work this muscle group out today because it's really still showing signs of stress.

Yeah. And how are you spelling that? If I wanted to Grab it in.

The App Store A M A T O N E and then I'll make sure that you get it if you have any trouble.

Okay, cool. I'll check it out. I'll link to this one too.

And then one of the other companies that is really near and dear to my heart is Manna. So Manna is a product and nutritional supplements are the tools of my trade basically. But this is the one supplement that I take every single day and have for years and will never not do. This.

Did you send me some of this? Because I have this supplement. It must have arrived when I was gone last week in my pantry right now called Manna M a N n a. And I put some in my water yesterday. It's like this black gooey. I think it's like Shilajit or something. But is this the same thing? Is this what you're talking about?

Yes.

Okay, so tell me about this because I got like 25 packets now up in my pantry. I need to know if it's something I should be using.

You should be using it. It's my favorite supplement on earth. So basically, Shilajit has this long history of use. It's kind of like the top in the whole pharmacopoeia of Ayurvedic medicine. And it's known in Chinese medicine also. And it's been touted, I mean, the name is actually destroyer of weakness. It's been touted as this like anti aging supplement that keeps you strong, fit, vital, virile, you know, your whole life. And like all the Sherpas in the mountains of the Himalayas take it every day. And it's what allows them, you know, to be so strong and to like carry heavy packs at huge altitude and all of that and you know, kind of weather the low oxygen environment and everything. And so it's always had this kind of like historical reputation. And now in the present day, there's tons of research that's validating these historical observations. And so it's been shown to do so many cool things. Like it's been shown to be a really powerful nootropic. It's been shown to upregulate mitochondrial function, you know, and then the nootropic work has got research in animals and in humans. And then it's been shown to up regulate collagen production. So there's been a lot of research in like dermatological fields and kind of like, you know, beauty and aesthetic, you know, kind of researchers because like people have actually subjected themselves to skin biopsies and it's been shown to, again, enhance gene expression, coding for collagen production. So it's like upregulates collagen production in the skin, in the muscles, in the bones, in the tendons and the ligaments. There's a ton of research on osteoporosis. Been shown to be extremely helpful there. And then there's really good research on muscle strength and, like, time to exhaustion, like when you're against a load. And then really good research on anabolic hormone product levels. It's been shown to enhance growth hormone, been shown to enhance sperm counts in men.

Wow. And it's just called manna. M A N, N A.

Right. So our mana contains shilaji, and then it also contains water from the Dead Sea that's been vortexed in a certain way to produce kind of monoatomic element precipitants. So that's ormus. So it's a mixture of shilajit and ormus. And what it feels like when you drink it is. It just, like, turns the electrical system on in the body. Like, your brain just all of a sudden snaps to your body. Like energy transfers through the body better, and you feel more energized. It's really good for cognitive decline. I've seen it, like, just work miracles with family members and people, you know, that have had that.

And do you do add it to water? Can you just put the packet straight into your mouth?

Yeah, you can. I mean, it's an acquired taste, but I add it to water.

Okay.

Yeah, I add it to water, and some people like to put it in their coffee or they put it in juice or whatever. But, yeah, it's. It's my favorite product I've ever taken.

Last question for you, because I'd be remiss not to mention it, because I know it's kind of a hot topic, and you mentioned that you guys are doing peptides. Are there any particular peptides that you think. Well, let me put it this way. A lot of people know now about things like BPC157 or TB500 or Thymosin Alpha. Are there any particular new or relevant peptides you're using that you think more people should know about or that you're excited about?

You know, I mean, I just love using the Conover protocols that that's the best way I can get them into California right now. And he's got, like, you know, great stacks.

Yeah, he does. And he, like, prepackages them sometimes, too. And you just, like, get the. Get the syringe. You don't have to draw it up or anything and just boom, you're good to go.

And it's been really, really helpful. And then like I said, we're doing a lot of joint regeneration work. And you know, Dr. Brooke Bennis is, you know, she's worked with PRP, of course. And you know, we do some special treatment to the PRP as well. And then we work with Shockwave and then she'll inject the PRP into the joint and then we'll follow that with peptides. So it's like kind of stacking of various things just for the joints.

Okay, so again, you do prp, you do peptides, and what was the actual technology component that you're using?

Shockwave.

Shockwave. Okay, cool.

Have you used Shockwave?

Yeah, I did some work with Gainswave, the one that does the, the shockwave for men and women to the genitalia. And my wife and I both did a series of treatments down in Fort Lauderdale for that. And then somebody sent me a home shockwave therapy device that's supposed to work similarly. I think that one's called the Rocket or Phoenix or something like that. And the one I think you might be referring to, is it called TRT or something like that?

I don't know the name of it actually right offhand, but it is, it breaks up fascial adhesions and then so it's great for muscle fascial adhesions. But then there's a very targeted probe that you can put on one of the higher end professional devices that can break down scar tissue in the joints themselves. It's also been shown to stimulate stem cell production in the joint, that kind of percussive energy. So then if you then put the PRP and then we do some activation of the PRP with special lasers like into. Into the joint itself. And then you follow it with BPC157, you know, or KPV. Like that's like just this rock star combo. And we're going to be having the secret hyperbaric chambers pretty soon. That part of our facility is still being built out. But then we're going to throw someone in the hyperbaric and actually pre treat with Novothor and it's just gonna be Rockstar.

That'll be an amazing stack. And by the way, I'm pretty sure you're talking about this thing. It's called like a softwave. One of my docs here in Spokane has one. And it kind of goes click, click, click, click as you're holding it over a Joint kind of seems a little bit similar to pulsed selectomagnetic field therapy, but it's a different wave. So yeah, it's a cool unit. I have a lot of people I've talked to who swear by it. You are doing a lot of cool things. Next time I'm in the Bay Area, I'm going to have to swing by because I love everything that you're stacking down there and I think this is going to be really cool information for people to know about. I would also recommend that if you're listening, you consider getting Beth's book again. It's called your pristine Blueprint because she gets into a lot more detail. Again, I haven't finished it yet, but from what I've read so far, she gets into a lot more detail about resonance and energy frequencies and some of the physics behind some of the modalities that you've just gotten done hearing about. So pick up the book too, and I'll link to that and everything else we Talk about@BenGreenfieldLife.com FutureOfitness Beth, anything else that you want to mention before I let you go?

No, I just wanted to say I think that when you curate these protocols for people that involve, it's not just coming in being like, I think I'll do this, I'll do that. It's really about intelligently putting them together and then proving that that stack is really working to help people resolve their goals. So that's what we're all about here at Jaizen.

Cool. Well, I'm excited. Again, it's called Jaizen Labs. For those of you want to check it out. If you're in the Bay Area, it's a pretty cool concept and I will certainly next time I'm down in that area, swing by and check it out myself.

We'd love to have you come. It'd be so fun.

We'll make it happen. And until next time, for everybody listening in, I'm Ben Greenfield along with with Beth McDougall, author of the Pristine Blueprint and the lead mad scientist down there at Jaizen. Signing out from BenGreenfieldLife.com have an amazing week.

More than ever these days, people like you and me need a fresh, entertaining, well informed and often outside the box approach to discovering the health and happiness and hope that we all crave. So I hope I've been able to do that for you on this episode today. And if you liked it or if you love what I'm up to, then please leave me a review on your preferred podcast listening channel, wherever that might be, and just find the Ben Greenfield Life episode. Say something nice. Thanks so much. Means a lot.