The Most Important Supplement To Take If You're On Statins, Plant-Based Compounds That Increase Testosterone & Bone Density, Japanese Anti-Aging Secrets & More With Dr. Barrie Tan.

My name is Ben Greenfield. And on this episode of the Ben Greenfield Life podcast.

If you think of your hemoglobin, which is red color, without GG, there is no hemoglobin. Testosterone, menoquinone 4, not 7, menoquinone 4, CoQ10, everybody talks about, and skeletal muscle. You are a big muscle guy, so you do exercise like that. The moment you do exercise, you stimulate your body to make GG. Because GG is required for the synthesis of skeletal muscle protein. So now, if I were to be a true biohacker, I'm gonna listen in. What the heck is this compound GG? I need to know more about it.

Fitness, nutrition, biohacking, longevity, life optimization, spirituality, and a whole lot more. Welcome to the Ben Greenfield Life Show. Are you ready to hack your life? So, let's do this.

Well, folks, I have a favorite guest back on the show today. His name is Barry Tan. Barry first joined me when we did a podcast about what he called the single most powerful molecule if you're stranded on a desert island. Later, we opened up the, uh, The conversation to something called, I might butcher the name, Geranyl Geranyl GG. Now, you might not have heard of that before, but if you didn't get a chance to hear my first 2 episodes with Dr. Barry Tan, then you could, of course, go back and listen to those. I'm going to put a link to our other 2 episodes if you go to BenGreenfieldLife.com/GGPodcast. But don't worry, we'll lay down a foundation here as well for what that exactly is, and why you ought to know about it. Now, Barrie emailed me a few weeks ago. He sent me some very interesting information about two things. One about statins and one about testosterone. Interesting enough information to where I actually wanted to get Barrie back on the show for a three-peat to talk a little bit more about GG and its role in these two fields. And, I'll also give him a chance to explain a little bit of a background of what this stuff is and where it comes from because I take it every day. I have since the first podcast I did with Dr. Barrie for good reason as you're about to learn. Now, he's actually credited with discovering a form of vitamin E called tocotrienol from 3 major sources: palm, rice, and then something very interesting called annatto. He's written 2 big books on tocotrienol since then. He's founded the International Tocotrienol Conference. He's even been dubbed the tocotrienol king. How do you like that? By a highly respected and sought-after cardiologist who I've also had on the show, Dr. Stephen Sinatra. And, Dr. Tan is just constantly at the cutting edge of some very interesting molecules and supplements. And, we're going to get a chance to talk about all of these today. So, Barrie, welcome back, man. I see you even came— this looks like my chemistry lab in college and high school. You have molecules and behind you that are recreations of this stuff.

Yes, I do. Thank you for inviting me and I'm looking forward to a very exciting time with your listener, particularly if your listeners among them are biohackers. I got some great news for you to come.

I got a few of those who listen in, biohackers, my mom, and a few people who accidentally downloaded this podcast and didn't realize what they were getting into. So, I guess I would love to backpedal here just a little bit for people who may not have heard our first 2 episodes. Can you explain to me what GG is?

Yes. I discovered this, maybe some story here. I went to South America and I saw this lovely plant. It's called annatto. If you pretend, if I scratch here. Beautiful. Yeah, beautiful plant. And, the color is the coloring cheeses that you see. Natural colors. So, a long time ago, about 25 years ago when I went to South America looking for this plant and it's a true— another one picture while I'm at it. This is an Amazonian tree frog like that. This frog is about the size of a dime and the seed is about a grape seed. So, it's a true Amazonian tree frog where the plant is originally from.

Ben: Oh, wow. And, by the way, I should tell people that Barry's holding up a few pictures, but if you go to bengreenfieldlife.com/ggpodcast, if you're not listening to the video version here, I'll make sure I include that there.

Okay. Thank you so much. And so, I discovered that this color is very unstable. There must be something that protect this color from turning brown or black color. I made many hypotheses and assumptions in my life. I'm not as smart as you thought, But, this is one of those that turn out to be fantastic. Remember, I'm not a medicine man. I just happen to be south of— in South America looking for something else, asking the right question, and this question led me to the discovery of 2 compounds in this fruit of 50 to 60 million chemicals that the American Chemical Society said that I am. If that's not a crapshoot, I don't know what that is. But, I asked the right question. I asked, "What is it that is preventing this from degradation. And as it turned out, the first one that prevent the color from degradation is a compound called tocotrienol. It's a special vitamin E, and with it, I wrote the book, The Truth About Vitamin E, about 2, 3 years ago. And right now, I'm following up to write a book, The Truth About Vitamin K. It had connection to GG, which I'll elaborate. Right now, I'm just putting it all out there. Both of these two compounds, Annatto E, which is the tocotrienol, and Annatto GG is from the same source from Amazonia. And for the audience, right now I'm putting the 'and' out in front. This is not a dirty chemical. This is not a synthesized chemical. This is a pure chemical extracted from a plant and it just happened to be from the Amazonian basin. So, I'm really really grateful, you know, of the 50, 60 million, I stumbled on these two. And the first one, this is just a quick summary on the vitamin E because I worked on it for 25 years. We did many study on clinical research on a chronic condition such as diabetes, pre-diabetes, metabolic syndrome, dyslipidemia, cancer, and especially on fatty liver disease. Now, I know I said a whole bunch of things like this. If you're If you're ever interested, ask Ben or send me an email, I'll send to you all the published study. It works to reduce inflammation like mad. And, this is the tocotrienol, annatto E piece.

Yeah. And, I want to get into that part, but just real quick, just so I understand because sometimes when I first interviewed you, I got a little confused about this. So, I want to make sure my listeners aren't confused. The plant that you were just showing a picture of, the little frog was inside, that dark red color that apparently has these compounds that protect that color from degradation. That's the annatto plant, right?

That is the annatto plant. Okay.

Okay. And then you've got GG as a compound that you find in this annatto plant. And is the special form of vitamin E, the tocotrienol, is that found as a part of the GG or is that totally separate from the GG and a secondary compound?

Ah, fantastic question, Ben. It is a separate compound. From the GG, the tocotrienol. However, the plant use GG to make tocotrienol. I have a molecule here. I'll show you. This is a molecule on vitamin E like that. Now, I will purposely go out of the screen. See that? What is in the screen now, that is GG. So, the GG is used by the whole thing to make vitamin E. Human cannot make this. However, human makes GG, which I'm dying to talk to you about. But, however, so this plant, when I was extracting this, I got this, there was always in the bottom of the pot. It is true, Ben Greenfield. It is like this. I got my tocotrienol out. There's always 1 or 2% in the pot. I know it is not the tocotrienol, but I didn't have time. Doing clinical research is It's difficult. Sometime I envy you, fantastic podcaster. You interview one person after another so fast. I wish I can do research so fast, but research comes slow. But, I did the tocotrienol research. Eventually, I asked the question. I have the 1 or 2% in the bottom of the pot. I got to figure out what the darn thing is. And then, when I analyze, he said, "Oh, this is a compound called gerenol." Gerenol, we acronymize it to GG. Now, listen to this. If the biohackers, I know this, I don't use the word biohacker so much. I use beautiful biochemistry. That's my DNA. But, I tell you why this is so beautiful. This GG compound is the last common step between plant and mammal. That means things that is green color to things that is red color. It's as big as here. In the green color, I know human are not plant like that, or any green color because you eat a lot of plant this and that, you're probably not thinking of this, Ben. And then, people, green magma or whatever, grass, alfalfa sprout, and many other wonderful things. Next time when you eat your vegetable, if you see all those beautiful colors like carotene, like carrot, tomato, like that, all those carotene, the plant will never be able to make it without GG. So, the plant use GG to make carotene. And then, also, you eat your vegetable and it's green color like your back screen, green color like that. Most, almost all plant are green color, yeah, a kale to vegetable, light, whatever color like that, all chlorophyll comes from GG. So, that's—

Oh, wow.

That means that GG is a survival intrinsic part of plant. Now, the audience is more interested. Well, Dr. Tan, you know, I'm not a plant, but great. But, tell me what a plant does with GG. I'll tell you. And, you are not— you're going to be sitting up straight if you hear this. If you think of your hemoglobin, which is red color, without GG, there is no hemoglobin. How about that?

Without—

is there— so, GG is used for hemoglobin. So, hemophiliac, GG is probably going to be useful to you, although it's not an iron. People can have anemia without iron. It's not that piece. Another one, and I know you're going to ask me sooner or later afterward, testosterone, menaquinone 4, not 7, menaquinone 4, CoQ10, everybody talks about, and skeletal muscle. You are a big muscle guy, so you do exercise like that. The moment you do exercise, you stimulate your body to make GG. Because GG is required for the synthesis of skeletal muscle protein. So now, if I were to be a true biohacker, I'm going to listen in, "What the heck is this compound GG? I need to know more about it." So, I explained to you in shorthand the critical things our body need GG for. And, by the way, even if you don't supplement GG, your body has to make GG to make all these, otherwise, we cannot live as we are. So now, I have many people asking me this. He said, "Barry, are you kidding me?" He said that, "We have been in this industry for 30, 40 years and now you mumble this GG?" He said, "How come nobody talks about it before?" Then I said, "I think nobody talks about it before because GG simply was not available." And I wanted to say, hopefully not bragging, but just with full of enthusiasm and passion, GG is a first in class. We are making it in United States for the first time. And American River is the first company in Massachusetts making it. I am thrilled to do this and so grateful that you are allowing me another time to do this podcast. So, I'm hoping to bear out everything I know now on GG.

Yeah. American River is your company in which you actually produce some of these compounds, right?

Yes, we do it in Massachusetts.

Are you growing annatto? Is that how you're making it or did you figure out a different way to synthesize it?

No. I wish I can grow it here. Annatto can only grow in tropical places like in certain parts of South America and on the Caribbean. You will find annatto growing. Next time you go to Hawaii, go there to look. If you're in botanical garden on southern part of California, in southern part of Texas, or even in Tampa, Florida, you will see Annatto plant. And, if you can say the word Annatto plant, you can say the word the lipstick plant. The British call nickname it the lipstick plant or you can use the scientific name Bixa aurillana. If you use any one of these, if they have it in warmer climate botanical garden, you'll probably find one. And, by the way, if any of your listener are in New York City, you cannot grow this in New York City. However, in the Bronx Botanical Garden inside like the Solarium, they have an old annatto plant. So, even if you in New York City, you can ask somebody, "Where is the annatto plant?" You can see it for yourself.

Ben Greenfield: The tocotrienol piece is interesting. I definitely want to get back into GG, but if I were to go over to Walgreens and buy vitamin E, is that not tocotrienol?

Barrie Hurley: No, that is not tocotrienol. Thank you for asking that again. The common vitamin E that probably 90% of the people know is tocopherol. Those are the vitamin E that is out there for sale. The tocotrienol vitamin E, it says tocotrienol, and there are two major sources, from palm and then from annatto. I ask the audience to remember to get it from annatto, and why? Because annatto tocotrienol is completely 100% tocotrienol, free of tocopherol. So, if I say this, the audience is going to say, "Well, you just make a nuanced statement." that is free from tocopherol. Why? Because tocopherol interferes with the function of tocotrienol. So, and in palm, it is about 25% tocopherol and they can't separate it. So, therefore, the tocopherol, even though you want the tocotrienol to function, the tocopherol put brakes on the tocotrienol. And in annatto, there are no tocopherol, which is why almost all, if not all, of our clinical trials with tocotrienol, they actually work. But, if you have tocopherol, then it will hinder the ability of the tocotrienol to work. Now, the audience may ask me also, "Well, don't we need tocopherol?" You do not need to supplement tocopherol. If you eat a normal diet, you typically will get about 10 to 15 milligrams tocopherol. That is good enough. Yeah, but it's tocotrienol that you need. If you don't believe me, it's fine. You simply just Google tocotrienol research and then you're going to find a whole host of all these study on tocotrienol. Tocotrienol is very similar to tocopherol. See here, I give you another structure of tocotrienol. It look exactly the same except that you see there's a double bond here double bond here and then a double bond here and hence triene. That's it. The tail of that vitamin E is able to run around the cell wall and protect the cell. And, we have 40 trillion cells in our body that need protection. So, it is obvious. If you lead a very stressful lifestyle or like people that follow you, Ben, that are very athletically fit, if you take the tocotrienol, it doesn't do any negative thing. It only protect your cell wall so that when you oxygenate like mad, which you want oxygen to live, your oxygen is not going to— when 1 in 1,000 or 1 in 10,000 oxygen you breathe in is going to go wacko and those wacko oxygen is going to oxidize your lipid fat. That's when the tocotrienol will nail down the 1 in the 10,000 wack out oxygen. The 9,999 times the oxygen is fine.. It's supposed to give you the aerobic exercise oxygenation that you need. It's the one-off that you want to nail. That's it. If you do that for healthy lifestyle or if you're very stressed lifestyle and it's not healthy, you definitely going to need it. I have been taking tocotrienol probably the longest time, about 35 years before anybody else did. And, you know, I'm not— I'm no poster boy here. I just turned 70. About half a year ago.

Ben Greenfield: Hey, you look pretty good. You look pretty good. I remember you and me went for a long walk together at the conference where I first met you and we were talking about tocotrienol and I was impressed at your vitality. So, something's working. Now, one other question here might be my last question about vitamin E, but a lot of times, all C supplements that brag that they're mixed, I think the way they phrase it is mixed tocopherol, and tocotrienol. Like, this is a whole spectrum of vitamin E, all the different forms of vitamin E that you need. It sounds to me like you're saying that the main thing that you need would just be the tocotrienol component.

Yes, I think that one is a marketing narrative, and the narrative goes like this. If you make one single compound, it sounds like the pharmaceutical thing is allopathic. If nature have it, it will make a whole set of same compound, and then the whole set of same compound will be synergistic. That is the narrative. I don't actually mind that narrative, Ben Greenfield, is out there. However, if a very thoughtful, sincere person were to say, if there is synergism out there, you cannot reject the possibility of antagonism. A few times antagonism happen and in the case of tocopherol and tocotrienol, the tocopherol is antagonistic to the tocotrienol function. It is. I can send you so many studies. It's just out there. Trust me on this. And then, you say, "Well, Dr. Lam, you're saying something that sets a precedent. I never heard of this before." No, you have. I'll tell you something. You know lutein is good for the eye. Like that. Everybody knows that lutein is good for the eye and lutein and beta-carotene are part of the family of carotene. If you take beta-carotene, which is known before lutein, and zeaxanthin is good for the eye, if you have beta-carotene, beta-carotene will interfere with the absorption of lutein. So, yes, it is true that synergism can happen in nature, but when you know that they are antagonistic, Why do you purposely shoot your own foot and purposely take them together when they're no good? So, for this reason, I encourage people to take tocotrienol because they're really hard to find in nature. They have, but hard to find. So, if you find that it works on you to mitigate chronic condition, do not purposely take it with tocopherol. Tocopherol is not going to help it. In fact, your normal amount of 10 to 15 milligrams tocopherol that you get from food each day is just fine. And, that small amount would not interfere with the tocotrienol I'm talking about.

Now, I got a lot of questions and not to put the cart before the horse, I definitely want to get back to this email that you sent me about statins and also the piece on testosterone. But, the last time I interviewed you, a bunch of people, I think they went to the Designs for Health website because that's one of the sources for annatto and they were confused about which one to get because there were a few different kinds. Of annatto, I think, as far as the actual supplemental form was concerned. Is there something people should be looking for if they want to supplement with annatto or even the brand from Designs for Health, for example, that would be best?

Yeah. On the Designs for Health brand, if it is the tocotrienol, they simply call it annatto E, a short for vitamin E. So, that's tocotrienol like this chronic conditions, things that I'll talk about, Annatto E. If it is the GG, they simply call it Annatto GG. So, it's just like that. So, they have the word Annatto in both. Annatto E is for the tocotrienol. Annatto GG, the GG is in there. They even have a product where these two are mixed. So, they'll call Annatto E GG.

Why do they have the three different versions? That seems confusing if GG already has the vitamin E in it. Does that make sense?

They have it— no, when you take Annatto E, it doesn't have GG. If you take Annatto GG, it doesn't have E. When we make them, we use a physical way to separate them. So, we separate the E and GG apart even though it's from the same source. We separate them because the functions of E and the GG are not necessarily similar. Now that I talk to you all about this chronic condition thing on the E, you're going to ask me about the GG. The GG function is quite different from the tocotrienol. So, people may not— so, anyway, for the audience, if it is for chronic condition, please get Annatto E. Okay. If it is for GG, which you're going to ask me, which I'm going to describe, and then it'll be Annatto GG. The Annatto GG has its own, and I'll mention some Specific add-on that GG would be good for to be added to.

But, if you want the benefits of both, you could just take the E, you said it was called the Annatto EGG.

Correct. Okay. If you want both of them, you say Annatto EGG, which is some people prefer it just that way. Okay.

Alright, cool. Thank you. So, you emailed me out of the blue a couple of months ago now and I thought it was very interesting because I take statins, for reasons I've discussed in the show before due to some plaque issues. And one of the things that you're commonly recommended to do when you're taking statins is to take coenzyme Q10 to reduce the amount of statin-associated muscle soreness. And apparently, the idea is statins somehow strip the body of CoQ10, you replenish it when you're taking statins, and it helps to mitigate the issues. I got a very different impression from the email that you sent to me. Can you explain the idea behind what you found on statins and CoQ10?

I think the best way for me to explain this statin thing is to use— pardon me for using this metaphor, I hope it helps you understand. Interstate 95 is the most trafficked highway in United States. 1 in 3 Americans live on the Eastern Seaboard and they go from Maine all the way to Florida, Interstate 95. I use this because Interstate 95, let's say, is for the synthesis of cholesterol. Nothing in our body synthesizing is ever as high as cholesterol because cholesterol is needed in all the cell wall in every imaginable cell in the body. It is important. With one bummer effect. As we grow older, we have arteriosclerosis. We just make too much cholesterol. Somehow other things that we need like CoQ10, MK-4, it doesn't make enough. Like testosterone, it doesn't make enough at all, but cholesterol, it OD on it, is making it. So, hence, the satin was invented. It was first launched in the U.S. in 1986, like that. And, Just follow me with this. Just start with Maine and things go down. It cannot go back up. You start in Maine, so statin works to inhibit cholesterol, to inhibit at Boston, and then cholesterol synthesis, which is in New York City, it gets inhibited. Typically, people get inhibited 30 to 50%, very dramatic if they take statin. Hits it in Boston, the traffic slow down seriously in New York City. Then, for the time being, you just skip Philadelphia. Just work with me, you're going to get it. You skip Philadelphia and then you get to Washington, D.C. And, in Washington, D.C., CoQ10 drop. Say, "Oh my goodness! CoQ10 drop and it takes that." Because statin is in Boston, you lower cholesterol and then in Washington, D.C., CoQ10 drop.

Yeah. That makes sense so far. By the way, my apologies to everybody who doesn't live in the U.S. Just nod like you understand.

I'm so sorry. And then, further from there, then you get to Richmond, Virginia. Then, you notice that, "Oh, that is the part that you make muscle protein," like that. And then, further down, you get to Atlanta, Georgia, MK-4, Menoquinone 4, and then when you get to Miami, you get testosterone before you get to the Key West like that. The part that I purposely missed was Philadelphia. Philadelphia is when a very unassuming small molecule that the body makes, and that molecule is GG. Yes. Jaranao, jaranao that the body makes. So, if you hit it in Boston, cholesterol drop in New York City, it's obligatory that GG will drop in Philadelphia. So therefore, because GG is in Philadelphia, it's above Washington, D.C. where CoQ10 drop. So, I just explained to you the reason CoQ10 drop when people take statin is because GG drop and GG is the building block for CoQ10. That's it. Ladies and gentlemen, today you heard for the first time. You always know when you take statin drug, CoQ10 drop, but nobody ever explained to you why CoQ10 drop when you take statin. CoQ10 drop when you take statin because the building block of CoQ10 is GG. Now, while we're at this, I'm going to purposely segue. I have this beautiful molecule behind me. And, on top, in here, in front of me, that is the GG molecule. And then, behind me is the CoQ10 molecule. You look at the backbone carbon which is black color, hydrogen white color. If you look at the entire tail of CoQ10, it's about 2.5 length of CoQ10, it's made by GG. The ring at the end here, that's made by the body, but the tail is made by GG. So, people don't tell you this. You see, biohackers, you got to pay attention. I'm telling you the beautiful biochemistry. This is unchangeable. This is the building block for this guy. So, if you zap this, CoQ10 cannot be made properly. That is a simple reason why CoQ10 drops.

That's something that you alluded to but didn't distinctly say. So, I'm going to ask you, you're saying that statins would also decimate GG?

Yes, that's the main GG. And now, it's very interesting. In our industry and you and I, if you take statin, you must take CoQ10 because your CoQ10 drop. Agree. We got to take CoQ10 so you bring back the CoQ10 level. We need CoQ10 for energy, for heart muscle, for all kinds of aerobic exercise need. Agree like that. But, if you go to an allopathic doctor when you take statin, You notice that what the cardiologist said, he said, "Mr. Tan or Mr. Jones or Mrs. Jones, do you have any trunk muscle problem? You have any back pain like that?" The doctor is fishing for muscle problem. And, that condition sometimes people call myopathy or you should Google, by the way, audience, is the acronym for SAMS, S-A-M-S.

Statin-associated muscle symptoms.

Thank you. Thank you. You got it. So, if you Google that, the reason people have SAMS when they take statin is because the making of skeletal muscle protein require GG for the making. So, if you zap and decimate GG, the body is unable to make skeletal muscle protein. That's it. So, that is also an important thing. So therefore, if you take GG, It will mitigate muscle symptoms with statin. So, we therefore have another product where we add the CoQ10, whether it's ubiquinone or ubiquinol plus GG. So, that will be classic.

Oh, what's that one called? Where do you get that one?

Oh, that one in Design for Health, that is called CoQnol. They play on the word N-O-L because it's ubiquinol, CoQnol.

That also has GG in it or no?

That also have GG in it. Oh, interesting. Health One is 100 milligram ubiquinol and about 60 milligram GG. They have another denomination, 200 milligram CoQnol and 120 milligram GG.

So, if you were tuning in specifically because you're on a statin and you want to mitigate the issues, that would be the one to use if you're on a statin.

Yes. We now have a clinical study. So, I'm so passionate with this. We have a clinical study in Texas now, people on statin and they have myopathy under a cardiologist's care. One group is dummy pill and then they're walking like you do, not seriously running, walking on a medicated treadmill to see if the muscle problem will be accentuated. Then, another group take 150 milligrams and then the third group take 300 milligrams. So, the study is blinded. I don't know the results, yet. We will probably finish the study by the end of this year, then we'll know the answer for the myopathy piece.

Well, do you know another reason why I think this is important? Did you know that statins actually began to be more prescribed during the COVID-19 pandemic for both long hauler and also for acute COVID as a potential way to manage some of the inflammation and other issues from COVID Yes, I did.

And I wrote a paper about this and the paper, I even pay the editor, the journal rather, so that people have free access. If you type my name, Barry Tan, GG, and COVID, you're going to find I documented clearly. And it was an incredible thing. This is during COVID time. None of us can go anywhere. So, I started to read the literature and then the vaccine was not yet out, people were getting desperate. And then, this is when the study— so, you have tens of thousands of people go to hospital. Some of them will have very short hospital stay, they have COVID symptoms, and then they're able to leave, no problem. Others would come in and then they get very sick, intubation, and some of them did not live. Beyond the 30 days in hospital. So, they documented this and then initially they have a very interesting finding. The finding, they were not pushing for statin. The finding was those on statin when they had COVID, they have less severity, less death, and shorter hospital stay. So, that put a big question mark and the American Heart Association funded the study. Would you Can you imagine this? The American Heart Association funded a study on COVID, which is pathogenic. It's kind of odd. Like, that is not chronic. So, the study said that, "I wonder if we should do a study where people have COVID and come in, they are never statin takers and then they put them on statin and see if the statin would do something." So, that study is ongoing, not published. And, when I was writing this paper and documented this, Then, Harvard actually produced a study. So, you should draw this study out. It was published end of November last year. You can access it by December. And, I clearly document that statin does mitigate COVID. And then, related to the statin mitigating COVID, we found out that CoQ10 does not prevent SAMS, the muscle problem. However, with the advent, if and when GG is ever used for COVID mitigation, then the number of people having SAMS would increase and GG would play a role to meet the unmet need.

Well, if GG is the reason that the CoQ10 levels drop in the first place and CoQ10 doesn't reverse the statin-associated muscle symptoms, Why even take CoQ10? Why not just take GG?

That is right. So, it is well known CoQ10 does not reverse muscle symptom. Now, this is not to say if you take statin, if your CoQ10 drops so low, there is no reason to take CoQ10 for its own sake, which is not necessarily for muscle problem. But, if you have serious muscle problem, when you take statin, just trust me on this. Without GG, the body cannot make proper muscle. If it cannot make proper muscle, that means you have to address the problem and the problem is GG. And then, I mean, later on, you're going to ask me about GG with testosterone. There's something to this, Ben.

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You're like a mind reader because what I was just about to ask you was, is it because GG directly increases muscle protein synthesis or is it because GG somehow increases testosterone or is it both?

It is both. That have been confirmed because the mechanism for which— I mean, the star don't line up for us often. This one, the star line up. It really is, Ben. GG makes CoQ10 because the building block of CoQ10 come from GG. That is a GG piece, right? Which is good for muscle building, exercising like that, aerobic exercise. The testosterone piece, as you know, we very well know testosterone maintain muscle mass. Even though I'm not a jock like you do, I know this, I appreciate this. You know who did the study on the GG and testosterone thing? It is not by American. It's by Japanese scientists. And why did they do that? Because the oldest population in the world are Japanese, you know, and we are interested in this country, not necessarily a bad thing, to see if we have increased bedroom activity. We— I understand that. But the Japanese scientists interest, we have 70, 80, 90, and 100-year-old people. These elderly people don't have thrive and they confirm whether men or women at that age, that testosterone drop. They just don't have thrive and the muscle mass loss, so they wanted to figure out how will they increase their muscle mass and they know testosterone can do that. Then, they found out 2 nutrients, only 2 nutrients so far. Actually, there may be more like fenugreek like that, 2 major nutrients and those major nutrients, the Japanese people like to find out what are nutrients that are endogenous to your body. American know, I'm sure you interview people, fenugreek our body don't Fenugreek, it does increase testosterone. Good. But, the Japanese scientists want to know, what are the endogenous nutrients that I need to take to stay healthy with increased testosterone? They found two and I'm going to tell you the two. One is GG. They put GG, it increased the Leydig cell, the testicle cell to increase, and women in the ovary cell to increase testosterone synthesis.

So, it's acting on a gonadal. Basis.

Yeah, gonadal and in the women in the ovary. And then, MK-4 also do the same. MK-4 also increase testosterone. It was that made us do the study. We did the study 2 years ago— 1 year ago. We gave healthy men and women 30 to 49— 30 to 45 years old and then, we give them GG to see if it would increase testosterone. We found that it did not increase— remember, women 30 to 45 years old, it did not increase the women testosterone. Maybe good, maybe bad thing. Usually it's good, I think, for women at that age. But for men, in general men which have healthy testosterone probably didn't increase. So, we did a subset study on people hypogonadistic, which means 700 nanograms per liter, like that, they're on the low end like that. It would increase their testosterone. By about 20%. We published a study. It came out 2 months ago. It works on that. So, right now, on that same subset, we also submit in to analyze for CoQ10. And, the CoQ10 also increased by 20%. I'm really excited about this. This is just pure beautiful biochemistry.

MK-4, because I've obviously been looking into this with my own plaque issues and wanting to halt or slow or even reverse the process of atherosclerosis, MK-4 is actually something that's pretty important for heart health and specifically for plaque. So, it seems to fit pretty well into this equation. And, remind me, I've already forgotten. Didn't you say that GG allows the body to produce MK-4 or even contains MK-4 somehow?

Yes. And, allow me, your audience in this case should look at the video. I did this on purpose. MK-4 is partly from the human body and partly from the plant. This is vitamin K1. If you eat any green leafy vegetable, this is vitamin K1, the one that caught the clotting factor. It has a ring here on the cap and then a tail here. The tail here is phytol, is from the plant like that. If you take this, A fixed amount will go in. It will seal the tear in your body. If we have a cut, the vitamin K would come. This is the clotting factor. A Nobel Prize was given to this. One time, I was asking the question, "I have many vegan friends. I'm not vegan. I have many vegan friends. If they only eat vegetable, rabbits, and cow, they should literally clot to death. My healthy vegan friend do not clot to death even though they have huge amount of vitamin K1." This is what happened. When this goes to the gut, a fixed amount of this vitamin K1 go to our body, don't make. But, at the gut, we have enzyme to cut this thing off like this and then the tail, the phytol tail get washed away. It's 20 carbon and this ring here goes inside the body and exactly the same tail, the red color, I purposely did that because it's from human, the GG, And then, the GG is found and known in 30 different organs. We'll see the head and stitch on. Intentionally, I make the click sound and that's MK-4.

Oh, really? The GG combines with the degradation products of MK-1 to generate MK-4 endogenously?

That is correct. Interesting. Which is why I'm so gung-ho about it. But, you know, Ben, Your biohacker should be listening to this. This is real. This is actually the biochemistry. It is not monkey business. This stimulate that brain-gut axis, all these other things that people talk about. This is just biochemistry. If you look at the molecule of MK-4, the ring here comes from the plant K1 and the tail here is GG. So, as we age, we don't make enough GG. Then it's very difficult to make MK-4. And then, if you take a statin drug, it inhibits GG. So, the body is going to struggle to make MK-4. And, MK-4, you say correctly. I will tell you a simplistic way to say MK-4. And, it's not like I'm telling Ben, you are the podcaster. I'm not the podcaster. You know how to describe it. In our body, 5% of calcium is in soft tissue. 95% of calcium is in the bone. That's a very precarious, uh, balance. If you have 6% calcium in soft tissue and 94% in the bone, that's already a problem, and that's hard to keep. 6, 94%. I'll tell you 3 things I know, probably more: kidney stone, gallstone, calcified artery. That is the 6%. So, what keeps this 95-5 balance? MK-4. So, if you get MK-4, you'll keep that balance.

And, by the way, that's even why people highly recommend you take vitamin K or MK-4 especially if you're taking vitamin D because the potential for vitamin D to pull even more calcium into the arteries, right?

That is true. So, please consider. So, if you— I'm looking at studies now for long-term statin taker, do they begin to have calcification of the artery? If they do, that means that over long time of taking statin, they slowly and progressively decimate MK-4 like that. So, one way I'm going to help myself is I'm going to take GG. I also, I have severe hypercholesterolemia. It's nothing to do with me. I'm a small-built person and you saw me before, but I have got this gene in my liver that OD on producing cholesterol, so I have to take statin.

Okay. And do you also take PCSK9?

No, I'm not taking that yet because I decided that I don't want to take injection yet. So, I am not taking PCSK9 yet. So far, it seems like I'm managing okay. I do not have muscle problem. And is in check. If I take PKSC9, then it'll probably drop even more dramatically. So, I'm not quite there yet.

Would you say even though GG can allow for upregulation of availability of CoQ10 and MK-4 that if you are on a statin, it would be prudent to take a natto along with CoQ10 or ubiquinol along with MK-4, all three?

Yes. And, if people want to simplify and take all-in-one, you can take Design for Health CoQnol.

Oh, CoQnol has the MK-4 in it as well?

No, no, no, no. MK-4 has the GG in it. Okay. And GG in it. Their product, they have a special vitamin K product. They call it Tri-K, T-R-I-K. And the Tri-K had GG, has phylloquinone, which is K1, and then MK-4.

Yeah. That's fantastic because right now, I'm actually using Tri-K and GG in the morning and then taking my statin in the evening. So, this is very good information.

Yeah. That is it. That way you're taking it is going to make your bone strong ad nauseam like that. So, you can have your bone. Well, you are young. You're not expected to have bone loss. I'm particularly trying to encourage women, particularly when they get to postmenopausal age, to take the Tri-K because their body estrogen drop and then the bone is not able to retain the calcium and then the vitamin K would help in that calcium piece.

Oh, good. I'm gonna tell my wife this after the podcast. Man, Barrie, you are a wealth of knowledge as always. You know, for people listening in, I'll link to the video, I'll link to a lot of the different products that we talked about. Our two previous shows which would go fantastically along with this show. You don't have to listen to them, but if you want another deep dive into GG and natto, vitamin E, tocotrienols versus tocopherols, et cetera, go listen to my other episodes with Barry. They're just as educational and intriguing. And this one, if you go to bengreenfieldlife.com/ggpodcast, that's bengreenfieldlife.com/ggpodcast, all of the show notes, the research, et cetera there. So, Barrie, thanks so much, man. You're fantastic as usual. I love talking to you.

Thank you so much. And also, I will have Jen send to you two interviews of Dr. David Brady. He's the Chief Medical Officer of Design for Health and of me. They came out in the IMCJ magazine in January. And then, that explained a little bit more on it. It's a question and answer thing. I'll send to you. Then you can help to link in for your audience. It was just a published paper. Have a wonderful week, my friend.

See you later, man.

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